Ford Focus RS : day 101 : Peak boost & torque limiting?

[@woggybot]

Well considered and informative video, much appreciated :) Goes along with what I feel in my RS - definite restriction in 1st, but all go from there! And I'd say the 1.6bar is a rounding up of 1.55bar

[@tonyminshall6752]

Thanks mark you are the best person to ask love the RS looks mega

[@TheDealer6373]

Thank you for running the tests.

[@fedjadrndarski5606]

It is quite normal for turbocharged car to have lower boost in lower gears. That is because engine has less load in 1st and 2nd gear. You can notice that turbo spools at 3K+ rpm in 1st, 3K in 2nd gear and 2.2K in third gear. There is no limitations, only turbolag.

[@hdmk213]

I'd say 1.55 bar was rounded up to 1.6. Thanks for sharing the data logging. I'm going to get myself an ELM327 soon so I may report back my own findings

[@MarkCup70]

Excellent! Let me know how you get on.

[@Scott555ish]

Boost is being limited throughout the low/mid range rpm (where your peak torque figure is derived from) and then the turbo gets released to boost as it is capable of above 5000rpm. This style of mapping boost delivery is the modern way of mapping a turbo car to feel linear and progressive. For those of us who have been driving turbo cars since the 90's it's not really what we want. A modern turbo being small and responsive should be able to deliver full boost on a wide open (or even 50-70% open) throttle anywhere between 2500-3000 rpm. This will massively increase your torque figure. I understand why they do it on a FWD car to limit torque and wheelspin, but there's no need on 4WD. It would be good if you could try the same on a mountune equipped car.

[@OverTheRoadRowson]

Scott Taylor they limit it on the RS to protect and prolong the life of the RDU as I'm sure it's rather expensive to replace in the event of a failure

[@sparkford04]

5year warranty, will be fine,linked with the renowned Blue Oval CS support. Of which Total Focus you know all about, especially in Canada

[@LoveGod16]

@Scott: You are absolutely right. Dreamscience Map does exactly what you describe and the car feels much stronger.

[@turbocharged9906]

Pretty standard that 1st and 2nd are torque limited, have been on most cars for years. Also have coolant and oil temp load limiters too. OBD on these limit map logging channel to 1.55bar, you need use forscan on map high res to see actual boost.

[@danny25692]

Good video, just making sure I’ve interpreted the data correctly does a standard focus rs make 0.55 bar of boost absolute?

[@thenumber1bobo]

Torque. Targets. Probably won't see boost as high in colder temps, because the air charge is already dense enough to create the power levels as calculated and desired by the ECU.

[@loganloganloganable]

You the man very informative 👍

[@JonathanTyas]

It doesn't look to me as though there is any boost limiting. If there is it is so subtle as to be pointless. My guess woukd be there is a small element of fueling cut as a traction aid in first. Also remember that to achieve full boost an engine needs a solid load to pull against. If you put an engine on a test stand with nothing connected to the flywheel it would struggle to make much boost as the fuel rates for a given rpm would be so low. Low fuel = low exhaust flow = low boost. As for the few % drop you were seeing in first, either first isnt presenting a solid heavy load or more likely the fueling is just been reigned in.

[@Scott555ish]

The difference between 1.55 and 1.6 is negligible don't worry about it. if it were 1.3 to 1.6 it would be worth looking into but even that is probably only just outside limits. once outside limits I would expect the ECU to throw a boost control related error. If you could log actual boost vs requested you will see how tight to spec it is but I doubt you have access to those parameters. On VAG cars I have logged the above and they don't track that close to target. they tend to under achieve target initially then over achieve target as you approach red line.

[@MarkCup70]

That's what I thought Scott...it was close enough to not worry about but I did wonder what other owners had seen or logged.

[@stephenheyes1487]

Hi mark I'm haven't data logged my car, but my boost gauge behaves the same way, and my car has done slightly more miles so I think they have rounded up the peak boost numbers.

[@MarkCup70]

Thanks Stephen, that's useful to know.

[@woodsy555]

Mark was 1st and 2nd Gear still torque limited on the fiesta with the MR230 kit thanks :)

[@MarkCup70]

I'm sure it was...but despite trying I could never get any stable or usable boost readings through 1st or 2nd as it would always just spin the wheels!

[@woodsy555]

Ok cheers Mark :)

[@RS_Jones88]

I've been feeling like 2nd gear doesn't pull as hard from 4.5 to 6 thousands rpms as much as 3rd or 4th gear! I found your video trying to find if its just my car or others. I found on the forums that other people have had tge same problem. Just wondering your thoughts. Thanks

[@fredEVOIX]

torque limiting is effectively present in the ECU by the way of a reduction of timing advance from what I've read in forums, not boost limitation, it's a "next gen" car engine management is much more complex than old ones where more fuel+boost=power

[@MarkCup70]

Timing advance? Copy that. I'll see if I can log what the ignition timing is up to and see if that shows a change through the first three gears.

[@Scott555ish]

timing advance will be different between all gears as each gear will generate different load characteristics/calculations and hence place it in a different cell on the map with different timing targets. Hence logging this will tell you little.

[@Scott555ish]

alot of modern cars are mapped on a torque/load basis but ultimately it's boost that gives you the torque figure regardless of how it's mapped to control it.

[@remcosol]

I got told the rs is torque limited , so Colder temp means less boost ? Try it on a warmer day

[@MarkCup70]

LOL 19 degrees is quite a warm day in the UK!

[@estperformancetv2446]

@markcup70 Are you sure the diag tool you was using back than is reading correct. As some diagnostic loggers has a limit of 2550 which is 1.55 bar. And these should do around 1.6/1.7 with overboost at peak HP

[@MarkCup70]

Nothing more exotic that the Android app, Torque Pro. I can't comment on its accuracy when logging boost, but it does seem to be accurate with everything else it logs.

[@Motown952]

Torque is limited by electronic throttle closures. Log that and you will see it very clearly.

[@MarkCup70]

Ahhhh, interesting, that makes sense, thanks Mohammed! I'll make sure I log the manifold throttle as well as the pedal position next time and see if it's pulling it back.

[@benhar99]

It does the same think in the fiesta st in first and second uses the throttle to to adjust power/torque with the peron map on the st it removes this feature

[@a.d.r.pperformance2482]

le capteur de boost avec n'importe qu'elle manomètre turbo par obd2 limitée à 1.55b en réel il y à plus 1.6 1.7b sur la rs

[@davidbrowne1588]

Hi Mark I have been watching your videos , I think that you are only seeing 1.55bar from your obd2 port as that is the diagnosis limit off the obd2, If you try a ford specific obd reader , you should get the correct reading, as a std obd2 will not read any higher, Also lower boost in 1&2 gear is because of there is lower load on the engine, Dave

[@MarkCup70]

+David Browne received and understood. Do you know if the same limiting applies if I log boost as PSI?

[@davidbrowne1588]

MarkCup70 Yes , psi or bar it is just a convention, like I say try a reader made to read the ford not just obd2, I don't know if icarsoft do a reader made for fords , you could pick up a copy Delphi ds150e interface and software from eBay for about £40-50 you will have to use with windows, but you can set it to a mode, flight recorder were it will record to a SD card and do the logging without PC, and then you plug the interface in to the PC when home, Dave

[@davidbrowne1588]

MarkCup70 Hi mark I am in Emsworth Hampshire if you want to try it with my Delphi ds150

[@antonvangaalen]

Hi Mark, wat do you use for datlogging. i am new with it but find it very interesting and like to do it myself (in my RS MK3)

[@MarkCup70]

HI Anton...it's very straight forwards using Torque Pro the Android app...I'll be making a quick video showing how easy it is to do soon.

[@chrishallatt]

Does the armrest slide mark, I'm interested as I get mine very soon, then most important thing obviously, lol

[@jordanchilds3236]

Chris H31 yes it does slide forward, mine does anyway

[@chrishallatt]

Jordan Childs thanks mate

[@MarkCup70]

Hi Chris. As Jordan said, yes it does...but I find it gets in the way of the handbrake whenever it's been slid forward hence always leaving mine back.

[@angello4004]

Data logging methods please !

[@FastLifeVlog]

Hi Mark. I have noticed that no matter how hard you drive an RS coolant temerature gage stays in the same position (90 degree) which is very weird. All other gages are moving while driving hard but not the coolant one. I'm sure coolant temp is much higher than 90 degree when driving on the track. Have you noticed the same issue? It must be sometching wrong with it. Other RS owners I spoke with had the same issue. Can you please check it coolant temp on your logs?

[@MarkCup70]

Mine is exactly the same and I recall it was also the same on my Fiesta ST. It gets up to a certain temperature and then only varies from that point by a few degrees at most. Regardless, I will add 'coolant temperature' as a field the next time I log and report back on a future video.

[@FastLifeVlog]

Thanks for reply. Apparently coolant temp gage is not moving unless is reaching 115 degrees which means it doesn't read right temp and is missing 25 degrees. It can be too late for the engine as this can cause enginge overheating and failure which we've heard so may times. Why Ford couldn't resolve the problem that is simple and cheap to fix?

[@JonathanTyas]

This is standard on most vehicles. I think its to avoid concerning drivers, who might be alarmed to see the temp climb after a hard drive. They usually sit in exactly the same place on the gauge until the car goes out of spec.....this could be a range of 80 to say 104 c and still show normal. Beyond a pre determined level it will climb. Id rather it just fluctuated with my driving like an old analogue instrument.

[@adamjordan5444]

What equipment do I need to check mine I know I have a boost issue but Ford are denieng it

[@Xavipie91]

Mine does not climb above halfway , i had a head gasket recal, does anyone wgat’s wrong and if I should worry?

[@MarkCup70]

I'd get that checked out, doesn't sound right at all.

[@lornamatthew7849]

Loved the shorter content, grandad 👴🏻

[@MarkCup70]

Ha ha ha, this was just for you Lorna!

[@davidweir6842]

wht years your rs I have a 16 plate I' like to see a mountune with same test plz

[@MarkCup70]

If someone with a FPM375 Focus RS is happy to let me attach my cameras and datalogging gear to their car I'd be more than happy to do that. Anyone?

[@katc.5553]

Hey nice Video! i have a question. how long does it take to get the oil to his temperature to unlock the 1.6 bar? i only get 1 bar when the oil is not warm enough. i only get the 1.6 bar at 5500 r/pm is that normal. it seems u get it earlier. Pls help

[@PhoenixNLx]

if the oil is not warm, you shouldnt do full power. Wait for 80 degrees Oil temp and then you can floor it...

[@tonyminshall6752]

Hi mark just bin looking on u tube about fiesta ST being stolen they say u should move the OBD port wot do you think 2016 my car is

[@MarkCup70]

Hi Tony. As part of a package of extra security moving the OBD socket wouldn't hurt at all. I also highly recommend using a Disklok.

[@tonyminshall6752]

Hi mark just won't to no if there is a limiter on the fiesta st 2016 how far can you take the rivers before you change gear

[@MarkCup70]

Yes there is a limiter Tony...take it as far as you want or need to...it will make sure you don't go too far for the engine.

[@patserio6988]

Hi I have a rs I ran 25psi. It has a cobb 93 octane tune. With a mountune intake. It was 90 degrees outside when I got this data. Is this good or bad or ok???

[@MarkCup70]

That's 1.7 bar Pat, so above what the standard car makes. Should the tune you have give you more than that? It sounds OK to me!

[@itstime45]

i just got my head gasket replaced! and i cant hit over 1 bar of boost no one knows why!

[@Xavipie91]

A Gray i have exactly the same !! Does anyone know why

[@MrArt69]

Ignorance is a bliss.. not in this case . 1.55bars is the OBD 8bit data log limit. 255bytes... so you wont ever read more then 1.55 on regular OBD2 protocol.

[@davidbrowne1588]

MrArt69 Hi I just posted that this is what he is seeing, it took me along time to find this out when playing with my Volvo D5

[@whipple5.022]

Who cares the RS has no power. I race tons of them down here and they can't even out launch me lol. Maybe it's bc I launch with boost too haha. Smh