Forgotten Depths - A Smallish Game in a GIANT BOX!

[@p0ck3tp3ar]

That's why it's called Forgotten Depths, tons of space in the box :P

[@matthewgonneau1056]

The remedy for the over-large box; toss the insert and cut the box down to 1-1/2" high - that's a whopping 1/3 the original volume! The top and back graphics are preserved and side cut falls just below the designer's name so that's not lost either. With a patient steady cut using fresh blades you get a pretty good result (it's thick cardboard so go with multiple slow cuts). Grab the unofficial rules v37 from BGG and print it booklet style (folded 11x17 sheets) - Kinkos can do it if you don't have access to larger format printer (one of few perks of working in an office). These rules are professional looking and iron out the presentation and errata issues of the orignal. Now, the oversize rule book is a glorious interior panel in the game box. Pretty cool little game.

[@jonathana6298]

I didn’t realize until today that there is a reprint + expansions Kickstarter right now. They re-did the rulebook and made a smaller box. 😅

[@TheDungeonDive]

Yep!

[@ObsidianKnight90]

I recently picked up this game used, mostly due to this lovely video, and yeah the box is HUGE. I repackaged everything into an empty Sakura Arms box and there's still enough space left over for the upcoming expansions. Fantastic game, oversized packaging.

[@leipherd8118]

I'd love to see Marian illustrate a Wizards of Earthsea Graphic Novel. The box size did surprise me as well! Not as peeved by it, but can't say you are wrong - I'd have much preferred it half the size.

[@TheDungeonDive]

Oh yes! That would be perfect!

[@hariszark7396]

I would like a graphic novel also....!!

[@legendodinson7082]

I think they might do a 2nd release since there a few glaring missprints in the game. Hopefully they revise the box and insert as well. I was very thrown back when I opened my copy and saw the box size compared to contents.

[@crazyvolucris]

Thank you for the nice look at the game... i really like the different mechanics... the box issue is understandable and luckily i got the space to store the box in my cellar until i will eventually sell it... until that... i will find a nice little box to store everything.😁

[@davidk6269]

The game looks really interesting to me, but the problem with the box and rule book size is a huge turn-off. One more big negative about the sheer size of the box is that it will greatly increase the shipping cost. Shipping containers are not sold by weight, but by volume. So with such a huge box, many fewer units of the game can be shipped for a given volume of shipping container--which leads to needlessly high shipping costs. The designers need to learn from this self-inflicted wound and make responsibly-sized rule books and boxes in the future.

[@TheDungeonDive]

I didn't even mention the shipping! They could have shipped 4 copies in the box that they shipped 1 copy.

[@MrPrimalAndrew]

Holy crap! I remember the original prototype review! Time to join your Patreon & roll them proverbial dice on a copy!

[@CreakyTableGames]

Your title is perfect! It is comically big! I was also surprised when my copy arrived, but alas, I'm looking forward to it - newspaper and all. :)

[@TheDungeonDive]

Luckily it’s a great game.

[@nineinchnabokov]

I like the big box, and the newspaper sized rule book. First time I brought it out to play with friends that don't board game much, they were super intimidated. It was great when they started understanding it. We played for 4 hours the first time. Now they can't wait to try other games they were too scared to pick up.

[@ColasTeam]

Gotta point out they're making a new edition with a smaller box :)

[@arcubal]

I could not agree more on our addiction to plastic in games. I almost ALWAYS rip out plastic inserts of games and their expansions that mostly contain air (ahem...The Everrain, any CMON, Awaken Realms and Mystic game), toss them into recycling and consolidate all components into the core game box. It would be a lot better if we did not have to do this ourselves and we simply saved Mother Earth a lot of hassle in the first place. Maybe the shipping/container crisis will finally drive the point home in terms of the only thing most of us care about: money.

[@r.p.193]

I couldn't agree more with this review. I really like the game and the contemplative and randomnarrative nature it has, and the art is gorgeous. But that box its so unnecesay. Im currently building a small box and have the pdf on a tablet or something. And its a pity because the game is so good!!

[@dearearthling33]

Marian Churchland is an incredible artist, and I love her comic book work. Check out her work on Image's "Arclight" anthology, and the series within is called "8house". I will be buying this game tonight as I just spotted it at a store in Portland and her artwork instantly drew me in. Thank you for this video to help seal the deal :)

[@payojuanmanuel]

You made an error in combat explanation. If there is a Block , player can choose to resolve the block pair instead of a Monster hit in the other pair. Great review!

[@TheDungeonDive]

There isn't enough room in the universe to contain the errors I make when playing games.

[@theHiddenStone]

Was there ever an explanation for the weirdly enormous box size? Miscommunication with the manufacturers? Did they confuse inches and centimetres? Were there unmet stretch goals which might've filled the remaining space?

[@TheDungeonDive]

A vocal minority of backers demanded a large insert for sleeved cards and organization which led to an over designed insert.

[@theHiddenStone]

@@TheDungeonDive Wow, what a shame :(

[@morgaknightgames]

I was also genuinely shocked and confused as to the box size. The game is a gift so I can't look inside to see how/why they justified the size.

[@nihilistick]

Very interesting board game if you ask me.

[@davidrussell7085]

I am really glad there is a great game here - i have backed and just received a copy and i think as a first kickstarter from the guy who designed it, he upped the size of the box potentially under advice from manufacturing and pressures about sleeving. I therefore myself am prepared to cut some slack here, this is not a large board game company that should know better, i would say a little bit of fear or poor advice led this to be bigger than necessary and he can learn from it. Sometimes things just happen unintentially especially with small independent individuals just trying to bring us a game of theirs to life. The fact the game is good is great news and also a well done for getting it done at a time when large companies are giving up.

[@gasa5251]

Absolutely spot on ! Love the game, so easy to get out and play, its a ton of fun. The rule book is crazy, and the box is comparable to the tainted grail base game box. love the game and art and the feel....

[@glaxonberry3667]

I backed this kickstarter ages ago and I'm so glad I did. I'm having it all printed in a special box. I made the right choice choosing the PNP option.

[@stevebillups9238]

If there is ever a 'Best of Dungeon Dive' compilation, this rant about the box and rulebook has got to be included. The only thing I can think of is the designer plans on doing LOTS of expansions...

[@TheDungeonDive]

Ha! Glad it didn't annoy you. :) LOTS of expansions....

[@hariszark7396]

That was my thoughts too. Room for expansions in one box.

[@nydaloth]

The art reminds me of the Squaresoft video game Vagrant story, and also of the game Final Fantasy Tactics.

[@TheDungeonDive]

Had a similar European comic book style for sure.

[@ColasTeam]

Gosh, the game looks amazing, but that box looks nearly as big as the box for the Everdell complete collection for way less game! I wonder if this means they're planning to release a lot of expansions?

[@Genghis-Pawn]

00:21 lol "a year or so ago" -- December 2019!!!

[@TheDungeonDive]

Oh god! Where did the time go? LOL.

[@The1Def]

So Daniel, did you give the second edition a try? I just finished my first playthrough of the base game and I'm very much in love, quite honestly. Yet, there's all of the expansion to uncover and I already consider this to be a hidden gem!

[@TheDungeonDive]

Huh - interesting. Never received mine! I'll need to check in on the status of my order.

[@tablesaltgames]

@thedungeondive I recently released a print and play game named Rusty Dagger: solo adventure zine game. I think you’d enjoy it. It is a storybook adventure with tactical combat on a single tile with random room generation. There is a how to play video up on KZbin and a Facebook group. Keep up the great content!

[@davidk6269]

"Rusty Dagger" sounds interesting--I am going to try to find out more about it. Thanks for the recommendation!

[@hariszark7396]

I'd like to take a look at that. I'm also trying to make my own game....I hope in this life time...😆😆

[@pauls3585]

The game looks interesting and cool. It is a shame about its box and book size.

[@Oliver-is5vw]

It’s a shame I missed this on Kickstarter. Hopefully we can buy a 2nd edition down the line with a reasonably sized box. Do you know if this will be going on general sale eventually?

[@bryanroy1496]

You can pre order it from miniature market for $35

[@Valen-D]

It's at retail

[@jean-sebastienh.8789]

Thx for the gameplay review!! Look really fun and puzzly just enough for my taste! As for the box and the rule book, that's weird! Did they expect to add some cards or other stuff or was it just a planification mistake? Your right, we need to start thinking ahead and develop an eco-responsability consciousness... The time for Big Box plastic filled boardgame is over...a minimalist approach doesnt mean a boring approach to game play!

[@hariszark7396]

I hope you have eco-responsibility about the trees cutting down to make paper for games too. Right?

[@TheDungeonDive]

Once again, paper is sustainable, plastic is not. Also, microplastics are literally killing life on the planet, and most plastic is not actually recyclable, especially since China has severely limited the amount of plastic they are taking from the Western world.

[@The8OJ4N]

That box is bigger than my apartment.

[@TheDungeonDive]

You can have my box for an addition.

[@BainesMkII]

While the combat system sounds interesting with some strategic potential at first, thinking about it makes it seem *highly* random with almost no strategy beyond card counting/knowledge, with random damages across a wide range of potential values.

[@TheDungeonDive]

I love random combat so not a problem.

[@firesnakearies]

I was laughing so hard during the whole box size part, that was hilarious. That rulebook, wtf!

[@jamos5710]

There’s a pdf who needs a rulebook

[@SlayerOfWorlds]

They must be thinking toward future expansions? Or they plan a high retail price, as you need a box size that equates to price tag. Looks pretty stupid, indeed.

[@cosmicdeb7576]

Gane is retailing here in the UK for around £58, so that's almost certainly a factor. Real shame. The size of the insert wells suggest expansions are planned.

[@littlestbunny7]

Box and especially the Gigasaur rule book has likely killed the game for Totoro.

[@ryanbartlett672]

Thanks. Great content as always. Love the art , color, larger card size of this game. Mechanics also look interesting. I can get over box size unless I am paying a lot more for it.

[@ryanbartlett672]

Oh oh all female characters, no male characters? Not for me.

[@AlarianDarkwind]

I don't have the game, but I must be in the minority, I like both the box and the insert. Great for sleeving (I enjoy sleeving almost as much as playing the game) as well as for any future expansions. I don't use Ikea shelving, so that's a non-issue for me. A large box like this on a store shelf would be much more likely to catch my eye (as well as many others) as well.

[@TheDungeonDive]

I gravitate towards small boxes when I go to a game store. These days, a big box is an immediate turn off.

[@Valen-D]

Totally agree

[@djfusion2808]

Fairly disappointed with how this campaign ended up. Like DD said, enormous box, enormous manual riddled with errors, components difficult to get out of box, fiddly to setup. I do love the art and aesthetic and tile-placement but the average combat and everything else means I won't be playing this again any time soon.

[@chrisnenzel582]

Hey! I can read the text without readers! More games should come with giant sized rulebooks for us old guys!

[@TheDungeonDive]

The text is super tiny in the rule book. Smaller than in most rule books half the size. I had to wear glasses to read this manual, and I usually don’t.

[@guardtroll4829]

Thanks for the review. I appreciate the details of your game walkthrough. Though I think your OCD has taken over the review at the end. Your review could have been half the size. GT

[@TheDungeonDive]

I don't have OCD. That's a serious neurobiological disorder. I just have a very small room in a small house, and prefer my games to come in boxes in sizes suitable for the contents they contain.

[@BrentARJ]

Hey Daniel, I don't know if KZbin filters removed my comment, or if you did for some reason. If I broke a rule, I'm sorry.

[@TheDungeonDive]

I haven't seen anything! Maybe just a glitch? :)

[@BrentARJ]

@@TheDungeonDive Oh good! I was worried I crossed a line with you or something. It was a comment about the unofficial letter-sized rulebook that I designed and people can find on BGG. Hopefully it helps people who are frustrated by the insanely-sized rulebook.

[@TheDungeonDive]

Oh sweet! That's you! I've already downloaded your new book. Great work!

[@BrentARJ]

@@TheDungeonDive Yeah that's me 😄 And thanks! I'm also the guy who did the Xia unofficial combined rulebook. That just underwent a major revision, if you haven't checked it out in awhile.

[@vahrens]

Some KZbin channels (or all, automatic KZbin feature?) do not allow posting links in comments. Even if you do something like writing it out like "dot", Google recognizes it and removes it. So, better to refer to other websites in wording like "check out my better rulebook on BGG Files" or similar...

[@ryanbrown9102]

This is a great video (subscribed!). 2 things: 1. There's one thing which you forgot to claim: This most definitely was NOT the size of the box of the prototype which you represented here 1.5 years ago. Obviously, if it was - you would have said something about it to the creator. Also, somehow, in that regard, it might be unplesant to say, but the creator putted you in some uncomfortable (maybe even embarecced) position in front of both your viewers and the game potential fans by showing a MISLEADING product in terms of its size (even with the caveat of saying: "This is not a final product"). 2. I find it hard to believe that you didn't think about it on your own, Yet - you didn't share with us about the fact that you did, so... Here's an idea for you: You (- a lucky guy that you are -) can use the prototype box to store this game ;)

[@TheDungeonDive]

I sent the prototype back. Don’t get to keep those most of the time. :)

[@GeekGamers01]

Great vid, glad you mentioned this issue in gaming, there is just no excuse for such a waste and nobody should be using these plastic inserts anymore. There is just no reason or need.

[@TheDungeonDive]

I'm really trying to be more responsible for the amount of plastic I am responsible for, and being in this hobby makes that very, very hard! Glad to have someone like you in my corner. :)

[@crapphone7744]

A big box will hold all the supplements and add on items that are probably part of the author's roadmap. Don't know if that's a good thing or a bad thing but I'll bet that's what's behind it.

[@TheDungeonDive]

It was to make a fancy insert to hold sleeved cards because some KS backers wanted it.

[@nakanoFIN]

That small box is not enough when cards are sleeved, but true looks like that the box could be smaller unless there are expansions planned.

[@TheDungeonDive]

Don't sleeve cards. Problem solved.

[@nakanoFIN]

@@TheDungeonDive I do not have this game so I don't have a problem with box size. Not ready to fully convert to the Light Side yet, but maybe some progress on that front by not sleeving story cards of Aeon's End: Legacy (only playing cards.). Thanks for the review!

[@kumarsalib722]

I regret backing this game. It's extremely insulting that they would waste my shelf space with this ridiculously enormous box.

[@jacksbacklog]

That rules booklet is egregious. There's an insane amount of empty white space. Such a waste on an otherwise attractive production.

[@hariszark7396]

16:45 so.....if I make a really powerful well placed attack (let's say 9) that would probably give my opponent a big wound and the monster makes a week attack (let's say 1) that would probably scratch my armour, I get hit by 8 points of damage because that's the difference between the two attacks?....that doesn't make any sense as all. Or did I missed something? The game looks very nice and interesting. The art of the cards are great. The art of the dungeon cards....mmmm not that good. The rule book is obviously printed in the wrong dimensions. My guess is that they made a mistake but they didn’t noticed until later that it was already in mass production that couldn't take back and reprint. I agree about the big box size. Maybe it was made to have room for later expansions or something. But man....talking about the "huge box" problem 10+ minutes in a 29 minutes video.....come on.... And the "doing my part for the plastic catastrophe of our environment"....please. We have talked about it again. Plastic can be recycled man. That's not the No1 issue of our planet. Get over this obsession. You can see all around you petrol overused and huge amount of garbage and food throwing away. Do you even know what petrol is used for nowadays? Even in cosmetics. And again, I have told you, paper usage means more trees cut down to make it. I'm not trying to offend anyone here but our environmental issues are very different than you think and plastic is not the biggest issue. But I respect your right to have your own opinion.

[@TheDungeonDive]

Once again, paper is sustainable, plastic is not. Also, microplastics are literally killing life on the planet, and most plastic is not actually recyclable, especially since China has severely limited the amount of plastic they are taking from the Western world.

[@hariszark7396]

@@TheDungeonDive dude I can see your reply over and over again in different comments. One is just enough, chill out. We can argue about this subject a lot. Once again, paper comes from trees. The long time a tree needs to grow up and the fast way it goes down from people or those planted hell fires we can see all over the world, taking out thousands of wood areas will make our planet run out of oxygen way sooner than we can be in any real trouble from plastic. Plastic can also be recycled and it can be destroyed if it is necessary. It takes a little time and resources to make and we can destroy it if not recycled. If you do a little research about the wood areas that are no longer exists on our planet the last 100 years you will see the real problem.

[@MarkDeibert]

I love your content my friend, but going forward, please lets not spend sooooo munch time complaining about sizes of boxes.

[@TheDungeonDive]

I will continue to talk about things that I find important.

[@jamesmit7914]

@@TheDungeonDive I love your content, but going forward, please lets not spend so much time doing what people in comments tell you to do. 😆

[@GrungefolkBoy2010]

Box sizes dont bother me, but you know what I did when he vented about it? Stopped the video😁 Game itself looks cool and great presentation as usual Daniel 👍

[@TheDungeonDive]

What? I didn't know that was an option! :)

[@GrungefolkBoy2010]

@@TheDungeonDive its the ONLY power of control I have in this world😜

[@HekylHyde]

They make box sizes oversized like that to accommodate future expansions.

[@TheDungeonDive]

I’d be surprised if there are two expansions for this, let alone the 20 that would be needed to fill this box.

[@TheDungeonDive]

I'd also bet that, if there are further expansions, they also come in fancy boxes with plastic inserts. If future expansions just came in bags, or wrapped in paper, I could totally get behind this idea.

[@jamos5710]

What’s wrong with the box one of the only game that stores all your components including sleeved cards in a very organized way. My only complaint is the final boss should be bosses not just one to make it more replayable. Also blocks trigger first not monsters attacks. The rule book was sized to hold the contents inside it so the contents don’t roll around. Seriously ur trying to be more eco conscientious so ur not sieving cards good luck with ur card futures.

[@MelvLee]

Great review! 100% agree on the production. In this day and age, I don't think I will ever feel comfortable playing a game with so much eco footprint... (just like not feeling comfortable using one time plastic bag...)

[@TheDungeonDive]

You and me both!

[@hariszark7396]

But let's cut more trees to make more pepper for games right? That will make our ecosystem better. Yeayyy...!!!

[@TheDungeonDive]

Once again, paper is sustainable, plastic is not. Also, microplastics are literally killing life on the planet, and most plastic is not actually recyclable, especially since China has severely limited the amount of plastic they are taking from the Western world.