Bavarian Lightning: The 1869 Werder Pistol

[@colonialrebel9964]

This gun, loaded like a trap door, launches expended shell out like a M1 Garand, disassembles like an AK, all with the class of a modernized flint-lock...I Iove this gun!!

[@shallows529]

Dude was probably a time traveler.

[@DAKOTA56777]

Loads more like a Martini Henry, to be nitpicky.

[@jakesolver4359]

Also auto ejects much like a lee carbine Ian did a video on, falling block as well

[@aharr3437]

@Shutbyotch I think what he meant by that is that an AK is not very hard to work on, like this gun.

[@Kr0noZ]

@@aharr3437 I think he misheard Ian say that the whole internals come out like an HK fire control group.

[@imperialgermanbayonets9244]

The unit marking 2. A.r. 2. 68. means that this pistole was used by the royal bavarian field artillery regiment no. 2, mounted battery no.2, pistole no. 68. Great video Ian, as always. Cheers, Vincent.

[@fnym9rdsavsffdik9a25]

you probably got the most niche channel i have ever seen, how do you even get an interest for that?

[@Bluesnipible]

That is some knowledge you have got there.

[@MrRobbi373]

@@peteraugust5295 I think that "r." in "A. r." is lower case, because Artillerieregiment is a single word in German.

[@imperialgermanbayonets9244]

@@peteraugust5295 The lower case "r" stands for "reitende" (eng. mounted) battery. If the "R" would have been stamped in upper case letters then it would translate to a "Rekrutendepot" (eng. recruitment department). Cheers, Vincent.

[@imperialgermanbayonets9244]

@@fnym9rdsavsffdik9a25 Thank you very much! My Grandpa was collecting british rifles and bayonets so i grew up with that kind of thing arround me, i just "chose" the prussian/german side later on.

[@MesiterSode]

The weirder pistol. The werder rifle was chosen for bavarious reasons.

[@juliuscaesar5197]

r/angryupvote

[@Nm_09]

Best comment.

[@Zakk_Zero]

It seems like the history of some of these firearms went from just plain werd, to evern Werder, to outright werdest before things got completely Wänzl resulting in the Werndl....

[@AsbestosMuffins]

Now for Today's round of "Is it German!" *serial numbers on the serial numbers* "Yes!"

[@Grimmwoldds]

"Is it German?" "Wanted: Firearms engineer. Must have at least 15 years experience in clock making"

[@paul-sparky-sparr4160]

@@Grimmwoldds And must be able to drink bavarian Beer......🍺😁

[@defaultusername123]

German- It works AND its complicated!

[@paul-sparky-sparr4160]

@@defaultusername123 Then take a look at the trigger unit of a Mauser C-96 M1930 "broomhandle"pistol (often called M712). Not a single screw in it and a technique so complex that a watchmaker might get jealous.😁😁😁

[@defaultusername123]

Paul Sparr G11

[@cliffracer_]

For a pistol that's ~150 years old it's in amazing condition

[@defaultusername123]

i thought that too. I'm guessing thats because they (or this one) didnt see much action in conjunction with that easy breakdown

[@LoanwordEggcorn]

@@defaultusername123 Ian mentioned the rifle version being in short service. Perhaps the pistols were taken out of service when the Mauser rifle round replaced the Werder rifle?

[@jumpkickman1993]

Try 180 years

[@daltonbecker4494]

Thats Germa- er... Bavarian engineering for you!

[@crazysilly2914]

a revolver, which came out decades before this, would be way quicker to shoot than this. although revolvers of that era were muzzle loaded, whereas this used cartridges.

[@TheRumbles13]

The machining quality is incredible when you consider the vintage its from

[@SimpleProductions]

Yes. 💪💪💪💪💪💪💪💪💪💪💪💪

[@jayzenitram9621]

It wouldn't surprise me if there was an inordinate amount of hand fitting by very skilled craftsmen as well.

[@LoanwordEggcorn]

@@jayzenitram9621 Frankly they remind me of hand fitted watch components.

[@draconus15]

It's probably why everything is serialized so you know it fits together. Looks like a hand fit job

[@falloutlover5443]

What happened to the Werder: Long answer: When a series of small kingdoms come together as a single nation state, it really is the best idea for those kingdoms to standardize on a single pattern of primary military arm. In this case, that arm just happened to be the Mauser. Short answer: Prussia

[@AnimeSunglasses]

Dammit Prussia! (Again!)

[@christopherreed4723]

Or, as they say in southern Germany... ..."Saupräuß!" (pronounced "sow-price" with a very hard "s")

[@defaultusername123]

What happened to the Werder: its was in Ian's hands....

[@mr.bobcyndaquil4214]

I know hindsight is 20/20, but Mauser's sysyem was more extendable than this.

[@secretbaguette]

I could make a longer answer

[@17MrLeon]

Random colector: I have really wierd pistol in my collection Ian: I have "werder"

[@Ph33NIXx]

Badum-tsh - this comment made my day

[@FantadiRienzo]

Number of Werder Rifle in the "Franco-prussian war": July 1870: 6.000 December 1870: 32.414 January 1871: 40.843 Build overall: ~127.000 (+ 4.000 carbines & 4.000 pistols) Source: book by Dieter Storz

[@tomasespada5893]

Amazing book.

[@nehcrum]

Is there a Weirder rifle?

[@taggartlawfirm]

Sickend Sour do you know the publisher?

[@praeceptor]

@@taggartlawfirm Let's assume it is this one: Deutsche Militärgewehre Band 1: Vom Werdergewehr bis zum Modell 71/84, German Military Rifles Volume 1: From the Werder Rifle to the M/71.84 Rifle, Publisher: Verlag Militaria

[@koltray8576]

Hey Ian. Just wanted to say that I absolutely love these videos. Please keep it up as long as you can. In all honesty if I cant sleep at night because its too quiet. I turn on your videos and watch them until i fall asleep. I reference these videos all the time for information. In fact, these videos have inspired me to start my own collection. Ive not been collecting too long so my collection is pretty limited. However so far I’ve managed to get a Remington model 81 in 300 sav. A Winchester 1897 in 16 gauge. And a damascus double barrel Baker from Batavia. I reload my own shells for each gun. ESPECIALLY for the baker as it is black powder. Okay realizing I’ve rambled on too far. So I’ll just finish with ,I love these videos and please keep it up. 🙏🏻🙏🏻🙏🏻

[@ghhg-je8wv]

I too watch through Forgotten Weapons on the Ipad often before bed, then the next morning I go back to see where I knocked out and pick the learning up from there. Thank you Ian for all you do.

[@itsapittie]

Just what every content creator wants to hear: "Your videos put me to sleep." :-D

[@weeksey49]

kolt ray keep collecting I started in early 70's when most surplus was 20 to 50 dollar range and I bought anything I could find now it;s much more expensive and I target a gun and wait and search till the deal comes along and great deals are still out there got a dryse needle for 250

[@scottr291]

Praise be to gun Jesus, amen

[@moretar]

Ian's voice and calm demeanor hace a nice ASMR effect for sure, it's great

[@Ian343Sco]

Amazing engineering. The internal workings wouldn't look out of place in an art gallery. Great video Ian.

[@ulasgursoy2838]

being an engineering student and seeing these designs, simple as they are, designed in the 19th century with no CAD programs or anything of the sort, is really mind blowing

[@AshleyPomeroy]

When he popped the internals out at 05:20 I was reminded of the G11. The stereotype that German engineering is overcomplicated has a grain of truth to it!

[@tythosdelta2650]

You know it’s a well made gun when Ian can pull the trigger without slowing the hammer down and dissemble it all without gloves

[@neruneri]

@@BatCaveOz Bingo. Gloves are often an outdated idea that turns out to be more harmful than beneficial in a lot (but not all) circumstances. They're becoming more and more out of fashion as time goes by. But as they say, when in Rome, do as Romans do.

[@CatalinaThePirate]

Beautiful engineering! I was half expecting to hear that the Werder had been designed by a watchmaker. Simply, this pistol mechanism is a work of art. I love it when Ian gets to tear down a piece. 😏 When I was a kid I used to take things (like my father's windup alarm clock!) 😆 apart. (What a little PITA I must have been, LOL!) I think it's likely I'd enjoy this kind of design work.

[@jamesslick4790]

I too began my "career" of being a mechanical "nerd" by doing an "autopsy" on a wind-up alarm clock.⏰ I never got it back together,but that did not deter me! I took apart locks🗝,light fixtures,radios...If it had screws, it was NOT SAFE AROUND ME, 😊

[@JerryEricsson]

Me to, it ended when I tore the heads off dad's 1944 International Farm Truck he had parked behind the garage. I learned to valuable lessons, 1 always ask permission before you tear apart farm implement, 2 that damn razor strop STINGS like hell on the bare ass. I was 8 at the time.

[@laaslassen6928]

The Omega shaped Spring explains the high resistance when cocking the gun :D

[@joe2987]

i wonder if they still use those springs on more Current guns?

[@donjones4719]

Or... An officer who liked it could say "My pistol functions like a fine watch."

[@keithklassen5320]

Ohmy, what a joke!

[@davidherbst]

Never heard of this gun. This is why I’m here.

[@cristianvillanueva8782]

@Shutbyotch and that's why we love it!

[@jamesslick4790]

@Shutbyotch YES, Then they become FORMERLY Forgotten Weapons!

[@Alpostpone]

@Shutbyotch "Recalled Weapons" No, wait.

[@TheGreg6466]

the close up shots are great, so many other channels don't do this, it's much appreciated, thanks ian.

[@tomp538]

The mind of the men that design such mechanisms never ceases to amaze...

[@curatorartium]

In the early 70's I got to clean and shoot a werder pistol for Uwe Mai's Gunshop in Bremen, West-Germany. Cleaning antique Guns was my job as a benchman, one cartridge for the Werder was my bonus for the job. Uwe had made the cartridge from existing brass, i believe from cut down 71 Mauser. I still recall how pleasant the gun handled and pointed. Thank you for jogging my memory bank.

[@ScottKenny1978]

Color me green with envy!!!

[@generic_tylenol]

Huh, never seen a Werder pistol...yeah, gotta be the Werdest.

[@DarthWillSmith]

Werdest pistol I ever seen.

[@DybbukHolden]

A Barvarian system, sturdy as a hatchet.

[@denniswhite166]

I see what you did there. LOL - clever!

[@cikame]

Oh Werd?

[@kiwi_comanche]

@@cikame Werd!!

[@holykuhmeinefresse]

Born Bavarian, in the comments 13 seconds after the video was released, title is Bavarian Lightning. This is not a coincidence. :D

[@thearousedeunuch]

"I'm faster than fast, I'm Lightning." - Lightning McQueen. :)

[@anthonytherapper6638]

Man can you imagine, 160 years ago without technology, pulling this design from imagination and creating something that should have been revolutionary?? Outstanding! Good show!

[@yomaze2009]

This is one of my favorite videos of yours recently. The action was very interesting and you did a great job making it understandable for the layman. Thanks Ian.

[@miguelburgueno4891]

I love the way you show us the functioning of all these complicated stuff... It´s really instructive. In each of your videos I learn a lot. Many thanks..!

[@Duchess_Van_Hoof]

Intro didn't lie, this may be the coolest pistol I ever seen, even including revolvers.

[@nocturnalrecluse1216]

This is why I fell in love with firearms. It's the mechanics behind the iron. I love it.

[@LakeNatronHotSprings]

Dude, I have learned so many types of firearms, which I would've never knew existed! Your channel is extremely informative! You are just awesome man!

[@ottch8670]

Thanks Ian I love to see the skill old gunsmiths had, this is a really clever little pistol and in wonderful condition too

[@herbertbrown119]

The artistry of the engineering of guns like this is the prime reason for my love of them

[@johncashwell1024]

That is a magnificent piece of engineering for the 1860s. Model of 1869 but I feel certain that it took at least 2, if not more, of the preceding years to actually develop this firearm. The amazing thing about it, to me, is that looks like it was designed/developed in the 1880s to 1890s. Great video Ian!

[@KnightsWithoutATable]

The ease with which you could take apart this weapon for servicing was amazing.

[@zolafuckass8606]

I absolutely love the craftsmanship that went into these older weapons.

[@Za7a7aZ]

If I were a gun collector I would collect guns like these. Every time I am amazed by the ingenuity of gun designers. How they come up with new ways to load and unload a gun over time..very fascinating..😊

[@jeramyw]

This needs a modern day counterpart. Edit: It's more modular than I thought.

[@ianshaliczer]

Jeramy Whitwell I would totally buy a reproduction of this, if chambered in a modern cartridge... It’d be a hell of a plinking pistol.

[@jeramyw]

@@ianshaliczer Unless modified, it would probably need a good rim. 357 mag, 44 mag, 30-30, etc.

[@ianshaliczer]

Jeramy Whitwell I was thinking .38 Special / .357 Magnum. Popular and proven cartridges, readily available from just about anyplace that sells ammo, and fun to shoot.

[@sthenzel]

Just the grip looks a little strange, maybe add a hump above the hand, like a beavertail. Or, like on some vintage target guns, a saw grip.

[@ianshaliczer]

sthenzel Looks a lot like the grip on most revolvers too me. Obviously, I’ve never handled one and certainly never shot one... But you could be right. Guess my theoretical firearms company will have to do some R&D on my hypothetical gun. ;^)

[@weeksey49]

The Victorians never cease to amaze me these guys were made of different stuff the amount of innovation they produced in firearms made the previous 500 years look like a snails pace with a few exceptions

[@slickcustomline]

I just recently found one of these actions in my late father's parts. He was a 3rd generation gunsmith. I have a newspaper clipping of me great grandfather developing a magazine gor the 03 springfield to hold 25 rounds. If your ever in Louisiana I'd love for you to stop by for an hour. My collection is predominantly percussion that will take me a life time to identifying not to mention parts. Your always a first stop go to

[@TheFanatical1]

You are an extremely brave man Ian. Not sure I'd have taken that spring system apart.

[@Ned-Ryerson]

I believe Block on the Range did it earlier with the rifle/carbine, so Ian definitely knew what he was letting himself in for.

[@TheLobstersoup]

This is like a well-kept pocket watch, but it's even more ingenious. Wonderful condition. I love the artistry involved in the brilliant mechanics.

[@Psiberzerker]

That trigger group is fantastic, and I love how it just drops right in the receiver. I want one.

Brilliant explanation with "exploded" parts. Thanks Ian.

[@astrogug]

These pure mechanical explanation videos are my favorite.

[@seancarter1275]

Martini-Henry-Obrez!

[@CarterG4Y]

If you haven’t seen it yet; kzbin.info/www/bejne/sIXZqXmEh7GVn9k

[@esotericschizoidoccultconjurer]

The Martini Henry Pistol doesn't exist it can't hurt you. The Martini Henry Pistol:

[@stevenveltrie1868]

Amazing how many "new ideas" are actually old ideas. Great video. Love see a modern version in 22LR.

[@sambaggins2798]

I have been waiting forever for you to cover this breach system. I became a fan because of a series written by SM Stirling. It sounded fascinating it the book and proved cool in real life. Evidently SM Stirling and Ian would be blood brothers if they ever met. They both appreciate unique gun lore.

[@Michaelfatman-xo7gv]

No. Dude is bit of a liberal.

[@sevenproxies4255]

Wow, the internals are gorgeous. All of them individually numbered, and no pesky coil springs to deal with either.

[@wolvie90]

I always love when you include a semi-serious outtake in the beginning.

[@michelguevara151]

that pile of parts immediately shouted 'bits of martini henry', a look in the breech seems very similar.and the similarity ends there, that fire control group is an engineering work of art.

[@fuzzythoughts8020]

I wish there was still companies developing cool single shot pistols, rifles and shotguns. They're really neat and I've always liked the simplicity in a gun with just a few moving parts

[@awmperry]

Love the sweeping lines of that mechanism. Art as much as mechanics.

[@svenjonsson9]

That action is true elegance to get a lot of functions out of a limited number of actions.

[@randywatson8347]

Dang it's a marvel of machining and engineering work.

[@cheesenoodles8316]

That pistol is just to cool. The single shot military pistol are fascinating....and this video shows why.

[@GARDENER42]

Thanks for the clear & concise demonstration of how this pistol works Ian.

[@TheASSedoTV]

Ian, how are you not afraid to dismantle all these rare guns? And how do you end up being so confident knowing every little detail about them? Mind blowing…

[@cyphre]

Dang, that is slick. I really love the ingenuity of these classic pieces, especially that old!

[@AnimeSunglasses]

Well, this one is immediately added to my Most Coveted list. Unitary actions and falling blocks, two of my favorite things in firearms in one place!

[@pennsylvaniafellow4409]

If the artilleryman's problems can't be solved with the field gun then having a rifle won't help him much more than a pistol, haha

[@Taolan8472]

This is a wonderfully Bavarian piece of mechanical artistry. I would love to have something like this chambered for a modern cartridge as a range toy or a hunting pistol.

[@Lowlandlord]

Just as a note, Bavaria had it's own army after 1871, until 1919. There were a few kingdoms in the German Empire, which is part of the definition of empire actually, and they were able to maintain certain rights. Not as decentralized or fragmented as the Austro-Hungarian Empire, which actually had three different armies with different funding, it was still there and they swore their fealty to the King, not the Emperor. Reminds me a little of the Lord Lovat, who was leading the 1st Commando Brigade, when he was coming ashore on D-Day he told his personal piper Bill to start up the bagpipes he was told there were army regulations against using them the Lord Lovat stated "Ah, but that's the English war office. You and I are both Scottish, and that doesn't apply". For an aristocrat with a name like "the Lord Lovat" he was a pretty cool dude, also let the French Troop of the Marine Commando land in France first, retaking their country and all.

[@oldesertguy9616]

The ingenuity of some people still amazes me.

[@SKALS-ICY-TOM]

it is cool to see the insides of a gun like that... Alot of thought and knowledge goes into making stuff like that, very cool and yet very simple

[@theluftwaffle1]

Thanks Ian for the lovely content over the last few years! I know we’ve all had a blast.

[@Tito_Viera]

If this fine piece of history doesn't have 124 years, would be soooooo cool give it a try in the range.

[@SH-zj5pd]

That is just about the coolest mechanism I've seen.

[@Chris-pb3se]

The Wiha bitdriver to disassemble the Bavarian pistol is a nice touch

[@blackguard5181]

Looks like a Martini pistol! This needs to be reborn as a scifi blaster.

[@bverheijden]

One of the coolest gun mechanisms I've ever seen. Just trying to imagine to come up with all of these sequenced actions...Without a PC model.

[@eieichtih9384]

Beautiful simple gun, thanks for bringing its story to our homes.

[@inhumanfilth681]

Always look forward to these nice morning bits, thank you Ian.

[@yt.602]

What an elegant piece of mechanical design. Great explanation of the workings too, thanks.

[@Bearthedancingman]

I love the two second intro clip! Please keep doing that! Super fun and makes me really want to watch the video.

[@lukejolley8354]

Wow you are brave sir, taking that mechanism apart with such confidence!

[@mkfreel]

Lovely mechanism. How interesting to have your breech block actively trying to open under spring pressure.

[@trent4356]

If we ever just lost our current technology, this is the kind of stuff I'd want to go back to. When everything is still kind of developing and everyone is trying to make the new best thing even if it only gets used for the next 10 years.

[@markfergerson2145]

Welp, now Disney has to get one of these into The Mandalorian.

[@Taistelukalkkuna]

You have a good idea. This gun would lend itself as blaster/plasma/laser, for sci-fi setting. Insert ammo battery like cartridge. After it´s empty eject like original.

[@williammagoffin9324]

A disruptor pistol like the Mandalorian's single-shot disruptor rifle.

[@Riceball01]

The outline of the pistol (minus the 2nd trigger) kind of reminds me of Mal's pistol from Firefly.

[@Taolan8472]

@@Riceball01 Captain Mal's sidearm from Firefly was a dressed up taurus 85 inspired by a Volcanic Arms repeating pistol.

[@Not_An_Alien]

Disney needs to get itself out of Star Wars.

[@USSEnterpriseA1701]

On some level, the way this comes apart reminds me a lot of the C96 pistol, gotta wonder if there was some inspiration drawn from this for it. Also, I totally want a repro carbine of this system in .45 Colt or .44-40.

[@itsapittie]

I'd buy one in .45 Colt. I can't think of a single thing it would do that one of my current handguns can't, but the cool factor is just irresistible.

[@AnimeSunglasses]

Mmmmmm, yes! And, heck, like any falling block design, this could be adapted to almost any cartridge... a .357 mag carbine sounds fun to me!

[@hailexiao2770]

I'd prefer .44 Special so I can actual buy the ammo at a regular gun store.

[@daltonbecker4494]

Shoot considering how well designed this thing is, and how much materials have improved since the mid 1800's. I bet you could get this thing to fire some pretty powerful stuff.

[@idontknowwhereiam5801]

Oh cool! A gun from my region! Greetings from Bavaria!

[@adaw2d3222]

This is extremely impressive!

[@POTUSJimmyCarter]

I'm surprised it didn't come with a safety from the factory. Not because the Bavarians of the mid 19th century were overly interested in gun safety, but because it was an opportunity to make the gun more complicated.

[@odinswrath86]

As a Bavarian, I really loved this video!

[@dbmail545]

What an elegant derivation of the Martini action.

[@stshort500]

What an exquisite mechanism!

[@ashaynale9146]

This ain't a gun, it's a work of art!!! 😍😍

[@judgebigmansion3492]

Like that Khyber Pass Martini pistol, but with some more engineering behind it. What a cool concept

[@infin1ty850]

Not sure how I missed this video when it originally came out, but this is one of the most fascinating handguns I have ever seen. I'd never be able to get ammo to actually try and shoot it, but I would love to try putting some rounds through it.

[@hamm6035]

Again sir, the absolute coolest stuff. It has a Martini/Peabody vibe. Way cool. Thanks

[@JerryEricsson]

I love that gun as well, I went through a single shot pistol phase with a Remington nylon Fireball in .223, and a Thompson Center Contender in .41 magnum. Both were fine handguns, in fact my nephew purchased the Fireball and still uses it for teaching his grand kids gun safety. Wish I had the money to pick up one of those, I love that martini type action, like to have one of those in perhaps 45-70 with the pistol in probably .45LC or even .44 mag if the action would handle the pressure (probably not, sigh.)

[@GuitARPlayr100]

This is quite possibly the coolest single shot action I've ever seen, let alone in a pistol. I'd love to see a modern variation of this chambered in something like .357 Magnum, .45 Colt, or maybe even .223

[@ScottKenny1978]

Would be tough to get it to work with a rimless case, but any rimmed cases would be trivial.

[@Plastiklandser]

As far as i can tell from my job experience, all these numbers on the internal parts are usually done for hand selection. It´s typical for machines which require higher precision than the machining equipment can produce. love these simple but brilliant mechanic solutions in this gun.

[@johngroberts952]

Incredible piece of machinery.

[@SALTrips]

Finally something NOT complicated from Germany..

[@randymagnum143]

Yea, right.....figure out the geometry on all those lock parts!

[@stefanb5189]

It isn't german.

[@SALTrips]

@@randymagnum143 Well might as well ask me how to figure out a nuclear reactor. What kind of question is that?

[@SALTrips]

@@stefanb5189 Yes.

[@charlesperry1051]

I love that pistol. The mechanism is very interesting.

[@gustavmeyrink_2.0]

2:54 Wiki Germany says that the bullet for pistol, carbine and rifle remained the same at 21.96g (339grain) while the powder charge was reduced from 4.5g (69grain) to 2.5g (38.5grain) for the pistol. It also tells the story of the police carbine converted to 11mm Mauser in one incident in which 772 rounds were fired resulted in 304 misfires or other failures.

[@JonatasAdoM]

A weapon literally brought to you by your king.

[@boredatwork1266]

That is a very cool pistol, with internals to match the coolness factor!

[@bitfreakazoid]

I love this trigger pack.

[@ayebraine]

Goddamit, I missed the usual, and fondly loved, introduction by Mr. McCollum because I was laughing, loudly and unsightly, at the sight of the handgun. It's an odd one indeed. Time to watch the rest of the episode!

[@harlech2]

I absolutely LOVE this thing!

[@1018-u8s]

I am a simple man. Ian uploads a video, I click like.

[@1018-u8s]

GYPSY KING FURY thank you for your permission to post my comment

[@shawnr771]

Nicely designed pistol for it's time. Very innovative.

[@balrajsingh-zp4wq]

Veer ji thodia saria video bohat Khaint hundia ne ji you No:1 in this world forgotten weapons great wish love your all videos and thanks veere