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Frommer Pistolen-MG Model 1917: A Crazy Villar Perosa Copy

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Forgotten Weapons

Forgotten Weapons

Күн бұрын

Пікірлер: 684
@tomaspabon2484
@tomaspabon2484 2 жыл бұрын
I love that its not a straight copy but rather two upside down Frommer Stops in a mount. It's the two kids in a trenchcoat of automatic firearms.
@whoshotashleybabbitt4924
@whoshotashleybabbitt4924 2 жыл бұрын
Lol that’s a brilliant anecdote.
@keksimus__maximus
@keksimus__maximus 2 жыл бұрын
@@whoshotashleybabbitt4924 You mean analogy
@GarGhuul
@GarGhuul 2 жыл бұрын
Two kids in a trench-coat of squad support weapons?
@neutronalchemist3241
@neutronalchemist3241 2 жыл бұрын
Actually the Austrians ended up straigh out copying the Villar Perosa with the Sturmpistole M.1918 in 9X23mm Steyr.
@babachloe7140
@babachloe7140 2 жыл бұрын
I was trying to articulate my feelings for this little cutie pie and you sir ripped the words from heart. Salut
@d.unterreiner161
@d.unterreiner161 2 жыл бұрын
When pictured alone you think it must be massive. When pictured with a person it looks adorable.
@tHiNk413
@tHiNk413 2 жыл бұрын
Right? It's just S M O L........
@bobhill3941
@bobhill3941 2 жыл бұрын
Yes it does, the first gun I'd call cute.
@MrHell26
@MrHell26 2 жыл бұрын
Omg this lol You read my mind
@JunkyardBashSteve
@JunkyardBashSteve 2 жыл бұрын
Looks like one of Tippman's scaled down reproduction sorts of guns.
@desperado8605
@desperado8605 2 жыл бұрын
Reminds me of the Tippmann 22 mini belt feds
@milkcratedon1917
@milkcratedon1917 2 жыл бұрын
One of very few entries into the category of Heavy Machine Pistol
@M0torsagmannen
@M0torsagmannen 2 жыл бұрын
until i saw this video i never even considered them to exist, but here we are...
@kj3n569
@kj3n569 2 жыл бұрын
I needed this as a kid. With a fieldpiece like this my GI Joe Battalion would have won every engagement. Even against the Transformers.
@sharonrigs7999
@sharonrigs7999 2 жыл бұрын
It would have been good for converting Barbie's Jeep into a Technical
@kj3n569
@kj3n569 2 жыл бұрын
@@sharonrigs7999 Ha! Can't have that! General Barbie already had her Malibu Dream Fortress and her Fast Attack Pink Corvette. With Sgt. Ken leading her force of teddy bears, nekkid baby dolls and Raggedy Ann and Andy SOCOM Team, the last thing my Real American Heroes needed was to face a barrage of .32 cal. artillery fire. I had enough trouble keeping them equipped and up to strength when half of them had lost their weapons during the Assault on Dog House Hill. Lost a lot of good men that day... Pop found 'em with the lawnmower later, though. Faced a demotion and stockade time over that debacle. Last channel I'd expect to have a conversation about Barbie and G.I. Joe in the comment section. Just proves how popular Ian is, and how diverse the 2A community can be. Thanks for playing along, our comments are gonna confuse the hell out of some people!
@thecommunistloli1042
@thecommunistloli1042 2 жыл бұрын
Can't forget having terminator fighting darth vader on top of a moutain (which was simply a pile of clothes)
@ianfinrir8724
@ianfinrir8724 2 жыл бұрын
@@thecommunistloli1042 Hey man, He Man lost an arm during the Battle Of Laundry Mountain, you show some respect.
@thecommunistloli1042
@thecommunistloli1042 2 жыл бұрын
@@ianfinrir8724 yeah nothing will cure the ptsd of thomas the tank engine modified bomber ships bombing the zones close to the mountain... The star wars clone trooper hasn't been the same since the day he saw a bomb take the life of lego man and losing an arm in the process
@hypethekomodo6495
@hypethekomodo6495 2 жыл бұрын
I'm just impressed someone looked at a Villar Perosa and was like, "What if we made THAT too?" That tripod is downright adorable, though.
@krissteel4074
@krissteel4074 2 жыл бұрын
Even better when you say to command, we need one of them and they're simply like "OK!" I guess the punishment is being made to reload 30 Frommer mags
@neutronalchemist3241
@neutronalchemist3241 2 жыл бұрын
People seems to like to point out the limitations of the Villar Perosa, forgetting that, as long as it had no competition (so until 1918) it was simply the best thing around.
@jameslawrence2446
@jameslawrence2446 2 жыл бұрын
@@neutronalchemist3241 This is true, but also people don't actually appreciate how effective the Villar Perosa was during the First World War. The fact of the matter is that very little credible research has been done outside of Italy into the combat record of the Villar Perosa, and most modern observers tend to simply dismiss it as impractical on first glance and make unsubstantiated judgements about it. The MP 18 gets all the credit, but the Villar Perosa was far more widely tested in combat and had a greater impact on infantry tactics at the time. The MP 18 was barely used and there are very few accounts of its use in combat.
@tomaspabon2484
@tomaspabon2484 2 жыл бұрын
@@jameslawrence2446 also, as Ian said, its a lot of firepower for the time and you can fit it in a tiny space. A couple guys with these in a tight alpine pass would be at least somewhat effective i would imagine.
@pauldavidson6321
@pauldavidson6321 2 жыл бұрын
Don't forget hallucinogenic drugs have been around for a while!
@zacharyread5303
@zacharyread5303 2 жыл бұрын
The Frommer Stop and Steyer Hahn are some of the most aesthetically pleasing designs.
@fg42t2
@fg42t2 2 жыл бұрын
The 1907 Roth Steyr is almost as interesting.
@jameslawrence2446
@jameslawrence2446 2 жыл бұрын
This was one of three Villar Perosa "copies" trialed by the Austro-Hungarians in early 1917. The other two were made by ŒWG (Doppelpistole) and Škoda (Sturmpistole). The Sturmpistole was a straight copy of the Villar Perosa chambered in 9x23mm Steyr, with some minor modifications to the design. The Sturmpistole was selected in the summer of 1917 and was pressed into service with frontline machine gun battalions just before the Battle of Caporetto, where they were first used in combat. An order for 10,000 of these guns was reportedly placed, but the Austro-Hungarians captured so many genuine Villar Perosas at Caporetto that the priority for manufacturing these new guns decreased. In the end, it is thought that only about 250 were actually made.
@stefanmolnapor910
@stefanmolnapor910 2 жыл бұрын
Thank you
@tomaspabon2484
@tomaspabon2484 2 жыл бұрын
The Swiss made a really goofy aerial observers gun with the same general concept. The flieger doppelpistole
@Pilotmario
@Pilotmario 2 жыл бұрын
@@EyePatchGuy88 "We want 10,000 Villar Perosas." "But sir, we've acquired 10,000 Villar Perosas." "What do you mean?" "We've routed the Italians at Caporetto and they left at least 10,000. I think." "What do you mean 'I think?'" "We're still counting them."
@jameslawrence2446
@jameslawrence2446 2 жыл бұрын
@@EyePatchGuy88 They captured about 2,200 Italian Villar Perosas at Caporetto (on top of the guns they had already captured prior), so nowhere near 10,000. However this was still enough to arm the Sturmbataillons and therefore there wasn't a huge rush to make more Sturmpistoles, which were encountering many production difficulties and had proved to be unreliable in combat. Issuing captured Villar Perosas was the more economical option. The Italians themselves made about 15,000 Villar Perosas in total, but the records seem to indicate that no more than about 7,000 were actually in service at any given time.
@orkhepaj
@orkhepaj 2 жыл бұрын
sturmpistole , hmm that what warhammer officers would use
@anzaca1
@anzaca1 2 жыл бұрын
1:42 This gun has several advantages to the Villar Perosa: 1. The use of an actual tripod means much better accuracy, therefore greater effectiveness, as the shooter could aim effectively at a given target. 2. The use of existing pistols means that said pistols could be easily removed and used normally if required.
@willyvereb
@willyvereb 8 ай бұрын
I wouldn't be so sure of the second. There is no traditional trigger and it is full auto only. It does skip the growing pains for designing a new gun and uses already existing tooling, though. Also it is easier to replace a pistol if one malfunctions than doing that to the whole gun assembly. So the idea has a lot of merit. It was probably a worse performing gun under trial conditions, tho.
@snarkymatt585
@snarkymatt585 6 ай бұрын
Yes I concur with @willyvereb the second point is not applicable.
@MythicMagus
@MythicMagus 2 жыл бұрын
It's a shame this thing is so rare. It would make one heck of a conversation piece to see one of these sitting on someone's coffee table. "What is that? Some kind of scaled down model machine gun?" "Nope, it's full size." Very cool gun Ian. I love that you have good enough connections to track down something like this for us.
@lamia197
@lamia197 2 жыл бұрын
" Wait... is that two pistols?" "yep" "its upside down?" "yeap" This is how I imgaine the conversation will go lol
@Neko-gs4ip
@Neko-gs4ip 2 жыл бұрын
Such an obscure firearm, thank you for making a video on it. Austria-Hungary really had some nice weapons in WW1.
@moekitsune
@moekitsune 2 жыл бұрын
I didn't expect this gun to be that tiny, holy shit
@gaminggamer9698
@gaminggamer9698 2 жыл бұрын
I mean it makes sense
@bardenhick2121
@bardenhick2121 2 жыл бұрын
Had no idea the Austrians made “we have Villar Perosa at home” a real thing
@csgaming8101
@csgaming8101 2 жыл бұрын
I think this was made in hungary
@omargerardolopez3294
@omargerardolopez3294 2 жыл бұрын
Yes, this was made in Hungary
@bertassellodavide1297
@bertassellodavide1297 2 жыл бұрын
Villar Perosa f.i.a.t. made🇮🇹🥂👍
@rodjapavlik5730
@rodjapavlik5730 Жыл бұрын
@@csgaming8101 It was called Austria-Hungary back then for a reason. ;-D
@asteroidrules
@asteroidrules Ай бұрын
Multiple times too. They also had a direct mechanical clone of the Villar Perosa, and the Doppelpistole which was two full-auto Steyr M1912 pistols mounted together on a single stock with their triggers pinned together.
@riccardo.pratesi
@riccardo.pratesi 2 жыл бұрын
It is interesting to see how during WW1 Villar Perosa was considered "devastating", each armase placed in its historical context has its own logic which then escapes over time, interesting video!
@jameslawrie3807
@jameslawrie3807 2 жыл бұрын
In close-in trench raiding it'd be horrific. With a guy on either side loading you can fire short spurts at fleeting targets. A great close defence weapon, if expensive for what it does. Tactically it might be sited on a reverse and not firing forward so it could sweep the front of nearby trenches.
@thejackman687
@thejackman687 2 жыл бұрын
Maybe it was a case of being on the business end and not having to contend with the problems of such a weapon.
@jmjedi923
@jmjedi923 2 жыл бұрын
i mean, it could be devastating on a modern battlefield. Having two subguns is a lot of firepower
@TheArklyte
@TheArklyte 2 жыл бұрын
@@jmjedi923 that's the point though. It wasn't "two SMGs", it was "two SMGs used on a mount either on position or as aircraft weapon". By the time of WWII we see rifle caliber MGs being deemed insufficient. But in WWI a quick firing _stationary_ gun with *pistol ammo* was called devastating. Meaning that for a soldier there wasn't really much difference what to be hit with ie reports were done by soldiers. Later on that angle was lost, concerns and fears of simple soldier didn't matter. It was all about that calculated design efficiency of overmatching capabilities of your opponent to quickly overwhelm them. Despite the fact that even nowadays soldiers DON'T want to get his even with pistol ammo;)
@ulissedazante5748
@ulissedazante5748 2 жыл бұрын
Guess that for people on the wrong side of the barrels, even a Villar Perosa could be perceived as "devastating". It was a time of bolt rifles and big, clumsy, fixed machine guns - a 'portable' full automatic thing that followed troops was witchcraft.
@envoyend9149
@envoyend9149 2 жыл бұрын
I always liked the Frommer Stop on account of how weirdly over-complicated it is for a .32 ACP pistol; my WWI example, I believe, is one of the stars of my small collection. However, I had no idea they could get even more weird that the standard pistol already is. Thank you for bringing this to us to see!
@chpet1655
@chpet1655 2 жыл бұрын
Well I’m gonna say this is the coolest thing I’ve seen on FG in a while and that’s really saying something considering what Ian brings us on a daily basis….damn that’s a cool gun I gotta agree with Ian wholeheartedly and I’m sure others get it too, the Villar Perosa is just awkward and it just “looks wrong” this Frommer take really seems a lot better I guess that .32 calibre was gonna be a real limitation at least the VP is 9 mm Glisenti
@mrmors1344
@mrmors1344 2 жыл бұрын
wasn't 9mm glisenti the super low pressure weak 9mm parabellum copy? and also the ammo they ran in the frommers and by extension these was higher pressure than 32acp in US.
@neutronalchemist3241
@neutronalchemist3241 2 жыл бұрын
Actually the Austrians ended up straigh out copying the Villar Perosa with the Sturmpistole M.1918 in 9X23mm Steyr.
@genericpersonx333
@genericpersonx333 2 жыл бұрын
Mind, the thing about mountain warfare is that there are two ranges you fight at: extremely close and extremely long. You are either shooting at a guy well under a hundred meters or you are taking shots at someone several hundreds of meters away, because of the way slopes, rocks, and angles work when moving on mountain sides. Basically, the issue is that if your enemy is entrenched on a mountainside, you more or less have to be right on top of them to get an angle of fire with small arms, making pistol-caliber weapons like submachineguns and variations of machinepistol more practical than a rifle. To get angles of fire at greater ranges, you really have to be far away, often on another mountain, and at those ranges, you are better off with mounted weapons like machineguns or small artillery that can effectively engage at 1,000+ meters. Rare is the time you have a nice clean shoot at 400 meters on a mountain side, the range the rifles were optimized for at the time. So...with that in mind, these little machinepistols on mounts are a reasonably good way to hose-down any unfortunate Italians who manage to get within 25 meters of your Habsburgian position by moving among the rocks. The Italians pop up to rush that last 25 meters, they meet 50 rounds of .32 ACP before they've gotten more than 3 meters. At 25 meters, 50 rounds of .32 ACP is plenty lethal enough!
@omargerardolopez3294
@omargerardolopez3294 2 жыл бұрын
@@genericpersonx333 *habsburger
@christophersteadman1402
@christophersteadman1402 2 жыл бұрын
It took me way to long to recognize that it was literally two upside down pistols lol. Absolutely Amazing!
@Gameprojordan
@Gameprojordan 2 жыл бұрын
It's kind of misleading since you're naturally looking for the trigger and trigger guard. Without it they just look like 2 barrels with a magazine sticking upwards
@Jreb1865
@Jreb1865 2 жыл бұрын
Ever since I was a kid the Villar Perosa has been my favorite firearm. It always straight up looked like it fell from the pages of a Steampunk comic. The vid of Ian firing one, was a childhood dream come true...
@brittakriep2938
@brittakriep2938 2 жыл бұрын
Years ago in a german Arms Magazine i read an article about such a Villar Perosi copy. The author claimed , that he knew a very old Veteran of wwl, who seved in a Kaiserjäger unit. This Veteran told, that he in wwl had such a weapon, mounted at a kind of backpacklike device to carry it, the device could be used as ,lafette'. A second man had to carry a lot of magazins. May be this man was one of the testing soldiers.
@ZGryphon
@ZGryphon 2 жыл бұрын
I love it. I was already a fan of the Frommer Stop for its complete weirdness (long recoil! in a .32 pocket pistol!), and this is like the ultimate application for it. It's a crew-served antiaircraft gun for 12" GI Joe dolls.
@bryanpelton6646
@bryanpelton6646 2 жыл бұрын
Unbelievable! This one gets my vote for the best forgotten weapon!
@Gepedrglass
@Gepedrglass 2 жыл бұрын
They said "Frommer! Stop!" But Frommer didn't stop. Frommer never stopped.
@klauskervin2586
@klauskervin2586 2 жыл бұрын
This is an absolutely fascinating piece of history. Great find Ian thank you for sharing.
@aurigo_tech
@aurigo_tech 2 жыл бұрын
Let's appreciate for a second that Ian really tries (and mostly succeeds) to pronounce names such as Steyr and Budapest correctly.
@zsolt_saskovy
@zsolt_saskovy 2 жыл бұрын
Kudos for that Ian! Also it took a while for me to realize what F.E.G is (which means Fegyver És Gépgyár - it can be translated something like Weapon And Machineryfactory)
@Immopimmo
@Immopimmo 2 жыл бұрын
Just when I thought Ian had showed us all the interesting guns he still manages to surprise us with something unique. Well done!
@robinblackmoor8732
@robinblackmoor8732 2 жыл бұрын
It is crazy. A lot of us that watch know guns and history, but not like Ian. He finds stuff all the time that makes you say. " What the heck is that, and where did he find it? " The channel has been around for a real long time too. Amazing.
@Gameprojordan
@Gameprojordan 2 жыл бұрын
"Just when I thought I was out, Ian pulled me back in"
@oldesertguy9616
@oldesertguy9616 2 жыл бұрын
One of those weapons that someone took the time to try out, so that later generations could say, "Well that is obviously not going to work." At the time it wasn't so obvious and I appreciate the people that experimented with things so that we can use our 20-20 hindsight to marvel at how "obvious" things are. Besides the fact that things back then had style to go along with the function.
@attilatoth7571
@attilatoth7571 2 жыл бұрын
Always cool to see a review of a gun made by my home country, also excellent pronounciation on Budapest there, i got chills 😁
@tudorapo
@tudorapo 2 жыл бұрын
FÉG on the other hand... well.
@kettilkroh3987
@kettilkroh3987 2 жыл бұрын
Budapeshtt?
@attilatoth7571
@attilatoth7571 2 жыл бұрын
@@tudorapo na ja... 😁
@attilatoth7571
@attilatoth7571 2 жыл бұрын
@@kettilkroh3987 yes, it's a hungarian word,
@MyPS4IsOnFirePleaseHelp
@MyPS4IsOnFirePleaseHelp Жыл бұрын
​@@attilatoth7571 Hungarian is such a badass language.
@BleedingUranium
@BleedingUranium 2 жыл бұрын
I've always hoped for a video on this adorable, amazingly weird contraption. Such a perfect example of why I'm so happy this channel exists, thanks for this! :D
@lindalily69
@lindalily69 2 жыл бұрын
Thanks!
@cr10001
@cr10001 2 жыл бұрын
Having just watched Ian's Vilar Perosa range video, I can quite see why the Austrian troops wanted one! Just the sound of the thing firing on both barrels is terrifying.
@Tippet76
@Tippet76 2 жыл бұрын
Awesome, truly a forgotten weapon. Wish you had said what the maximum range of the ladder sight was.
@robinblackmoor8732
@robinblackmoor8732 2 жыл бұрын
@@BcFuTw9jt There is no way it would be the same. The barrels are different lengths from this to the carbine. They just put that one on because they had then sitting around when they were making it.
@stumpythedwarf8712
@stumpythedwarf8712 2 жыл бұрын
Ian, calling that device "cool" is possibly the understatement of the year. It's simply the most amazing thing I've seen anywhere in a long, long time. Thank you as always!
@Fake_Dozer
@Fake_Dozer 2 жыл бұрын
_"We have Villa Perosa at home"_
@oftenwrong.
@oftenwrong. 2 жыл бұрын
This is one of the best channels on KZbin! I look forward to seeing a video everyday. Very good job! Thank you
@kolalawawokiya
@kolalawawokiya 2 жыл бұрын
This would be interesting to see in operation on a range.
@danijuggernaut
@danijuggernaut 2 жыл бұрын
I like your channel so much, a tour thru the museum of history of guns. Greetings from Barcelona Spain.
@kennyarmer4092
@kennyarmer4092 2 жыл бұрын
What a cool and unusual weapon, thanks for sharing this!!
@jm9371
@jm9371 2 жыл бұрын
Clearly, one of the more interesting weapons you have shown us in the last while. I originally thought it was a gun mount for some other firearm.... Fascinating video!
@RewardedRocki
@RewardedRocki 2 жыл бұрын
Looks like an anti air gun for GI Joes. Cutest thing I ever saw.
@ronniescopeline7486
@ronniescopeline7486 2 жыл бұрын
Simple Sturdy Effective And we all know if these were available, everyone would have one. Because they're really neat!
@smorgisborg1
@smorgisborg1 2 жыл бұрын
Should definitely try and get those books translated and publish them under headstamp, could see them being very popular.
@ChrisB.C.
@ChrisB.C. 2 жыл бұрын
I've seen a lot of really unique, fascinating things on Forgotten Weapons, but this is one of the few that made me actually go, "What the hell?!" 😮 I love this channel so much.
@Coltbreath
@Coltbreath 2 жыл бұрын
The Trail photo is a really nice touch for this presentation! Thank You!
@harryspeakup8452
@harryspeakup8452 2 жыл бұрын
This is the absolute essence of Forgotten Weapons. Wonderful
@bulukacarlos4751
@bulukacarlos4751 2 жыл бұрын
Excellent video!, I was completely unaware of it. It is the lightest of the heavy machine guns that I have seen in my life hahahaha..
@giucas100cassabellis2
@giucas100cassabellis2 2 жыл бұрын
OMG I wish since 2020 to see an actual review about this gun! This is a dream that becomes reality! Thanks Ian!
@Hypastpist
@Hypastpist 2 жыл бұрын
imagine breeching the trench officer's room and getting surprised by this number on his desk
@jwseibert1059
@jwseibert1059 2 жыл бұрын
This is cool as hell. I can imagine the caliber wasn't a huge concern when shooting almost straight down at guys trying to scale a mountain,any hit would make it hard to hang on or keep climbing.
@tomaspabon2484
@tomaspabon2484 2 жыл бұрын
I mean, those italian mountain troops were pretty goddamn terrifying,any firepower you can get is good.
@Gameprojordan
@Gameprojordan 2 жыл бұрын
.32 acp was perfectly fine against fabric uniforms at the time, even against rudimentary armor you could shower them in fragmented bullet spalling
@Jarumo76
@Jarumo76 2 жыл бұрын
That is just too cute, It's like someone made a support weapon for hobbits.
@ragnarthefearless9235
@ragnarthefearless9235 2 жыл бұрын
Wish I had this as a kid, my GiJoe backyard battles would have been a whole lot more realistic.
@nikkihavers6432
@nikkihavers6432 2 жыл бұрын
I've been fascinated with the Villar Perosa for years, i didn't realize the weapon system was ever copied
@stefanmolnapor910
@stefanmolnapor910 2 жыл бұрын
It was my first machine gun love.
@SCjunk
@SCjunk 2 жыл бұрын
The Kuk also developed a copy of the Pillar Persoa probably in 9mm Steyr -was certainly trailed in October 1917 -(notated photos) and at least for the trials was mounted on a back pack frame which doubled as a small sled -so obviously for service in the Tyrol. The most obvious differneces between the Itlaian (which numbers were captured) and the KuK version were the KuK version had straight magazines and lack the circular twin mount at the front of the receiver -the KuK was basically a pair of barrel blocks joined by a cast in bar.
@paciughissimo
@paciughissimo 2 жыл бұрын
They also captured a lot of VP during the battle of Caporetto, maybe this project was scrapped because they had plenty and resources were better used for something else
@SCjunk
@SCjunk 2 жыл бұрын
@@paciughissimo There were a lot of ME TOO projects by the Austro-Hungarians and Italians --the Italians proposed manufacture of the Kuk 3.7 cm M15 , whether they produced it as a production run or just as trial samples I don't know only that samples of both the Italian 3.7 cm and the kuK VP still exist in collections. By the turn of 1918 the Austro-Hungarians couldnn't produce enough boots for their troops never mind embark on large scale production of anything.
@metrazol
@metrazol 2 жыл бұрын
It's so cute with it's little ears and goofy snout! It's just so dang adorable!
@jamesallred460
@jamesallred460 2 жыл бұрын
OMG that thing is so cool! And that tripod is just the best!
@ZombieB
@ZombieB 2 жыл бұрын
Fascinante, solo en este canal encuentro este tipo de info sería buenísimo ver esa rareza en acción! Amen.
@Rand0m_Mex1can14
@Rand0m_Mex1can14 2 жыл бұрын
I was sent here form the act mans channel from a long time ago and I can’t get enough of this excellent Contant.
@stevelewis7263
@stevelewis7263 2 жыл бұрын
Would be great to see this on the range
@jeffnewbill5599
@jeffnewbill5599 2 жыл бұрын
10:50 in the video. "Honestly this tiny little adorable tripod, is it's really cool" 😂
@gustavmeyrink_2.0
@gustavmeyrink_2.0 2 жыл бұрын
13:30 Not sure if they did run into problems caused by the extended single-stack mag because they are upside down. I can perfectly understand why such magazines would be troublesome if they were arranged traditionally and had to feed ammo working against gravity as this would require a ludicrously strong spring making reloading a pain in the neck, incur feeding problems or both.
@exiledintheus7251
@exiledintheus7251 2 жыл бұрын
Very cool most informative! Happy Thanksgiving Ian!
@ecrogue4496
@ecrogue4496 2 жыл бұрын
Very cool. Thanks Ian. Always enjoy your videos.
@brycechristensen2296
@brycechristensen2296 2 жыл бұрын
As the owner of a Frommer Stop, I find this absolutely fascinating. I'm very curious how the added mass of the extended barrel works out with the long-recoil action. Did they use different springs or anything? Based on my experience with modern .32 acp loads, I doubt that gun would cycle reliably. Many online sources say that Frommer had their own version of .32 acp with a hotter charge, which would have helped here. But I'm still suspicious. That said, I really love my Stop. It is picky about ammo brands, but it's a joy to shoot when I find the right match for it. I'd love to try one of those 25-round mags. The standard 7-round mag is my biggest complaint about the gun. The sights are tiny, but effective when you have time to aim. I can get pretty tight groups at 15 yards. I'm not sure if the extended barrel would help much unless the sights were completely redesigned, but I would still love to shoot a few mags with that barrel just to compare. Lots to think about here. Thanks Ian!
@finnagin_the_ninja
@finnagin_the_ninja 2 жыл бұрын
I could be wrong but it looks like the barrel is now fixed and the bolt is just a straight blow back. There is no wear on the barrel where it would reciprocate into the frame.
@m.j.mahoney8905
@m.j.mahoney8905 2 жыл бұрын
@@finnagin_the_ninja Yeah, I noticed that too. When he cocks the gun on the tripod at 11:25 you can see that the barrel doesn't move back.
@Broken_Yugo
@Broken_Yugo 2 жыл бұрын
It seems some European .32 ACP is loaded considerably hotter (probably near the max pressure spec) than the stuff you see loaded in the US, compare velocities. I suspect the American loaders are afraid of blowing the slide off some pot metal Saturday night special and load accordingly.
@KJAkk
@KJAkk 2 жыл бұрын
@@Broken_Yugo That might be why my Ortgies and Mauser 1914 do not eject properly.
@john-paulsilke893
@john-paulsilke893 2 жыл бұрын
I’m not normally envious of a machine gun owner, but this and the American 180 are definitely high on my I want list.
@riograndedosulball248
@riograndedosulball248 2 жыл бұрын
Cheapest ammo you could find and awesome history behind it, who wouldn't love having them?
@wrxs1781
@wrxs1781 2 жыл бұрын
what a beautiful piece of quality construction and engineering.
@01Bouwhuis
@01Bouwhuis 2 жыл бұрын
And like most Italian engineering...fckin useless...
@_ArsNova
@_ArsNova 2 жыл бұрын
It is hilarious and the most Austrian thing that their troops would request a full production model of the Villar-Perosa, an Italian kludge made out of aircraft SMGs press-ganged into ground combat. It's well made and unique for what it is though. Leave it to Ian to find things like this.
@skrape99
@skrape99 2 жыл бұрын
A crew-served tripod-mounted .32 ACP... 🍄🍄🍄
@2011Kestrel
@2011Kestrel 7 ай бұрын
When this video started I thought this was a scale model of a larger real gun. Possibly an engineering sample or something that would be used during sales presentations. Stunning that this was the ACTUAL firearm. Tremendously interesting stuff.
@44hawk28
@44hawk28 2 жыл бұрын
Had that tripod weapon shown up in Hawaii I would have thought it would have been something that the Mehune would have come up with. However the last time the Mahoney were actually known to have existed in Hawaii was in 1827 when 127 of them between the height of two and a half to 3 ft tall were known to be living there. They died off soon after. But they were rumored to have lived in Hawaii for hundreds if not several thousand years.
@509Gman
@509Gman 2 жыл бұрын
*Menehune?
@B9oyd
@B9oyd 2 жыл бұрын
Looks like it might have been useful for interior security, like inside of bunkers and fortifications. And firing independantly would allow for a lot more sustained fire, being able to alternate between firing one while reloading the other
@bingoflamingo2447
@bingoflamingo2447 2 жыл бұрын
Austrian soldier: Can we get a Villar Perosa? Franz Joseph: We have a Villar Perosa at home. Villar Perosa at home:
@anzaca1
@anzaca1 2 жыл бұрын
4:53 That is brilliant. Why design a new mechanism, when you can simply adapt something that the gun already has? After all, a grip safety already has a connection to the trigger mechanism.
@cheesenoodles8316
@cheesenoodles8316 2 жыл бұрын
That is strange, cool, imaginative and is one weapon that should not be forgotten.
@Garlarg
@Garlarg 2 жыл бұрын
Thank you for the correct pronunciation of Budapest!
@ericpode6095
@ericpode6095 2 жыл бұрын
9:50 Those "traverse stops" look way to easy to lose. I'm surprised this one still has them!
@666toysoldier
@666toysoldier 2 жыл бұрын
Probably missing a retainer chain.
@adam-k
@adam-k 2 жыл бұрын
They are also easy to replace though. And being non essential nobody cares.
@sam__304
@sam__304 2 жыл бұрын
Never thought I would hear Ian call anything gun related "adorable" 👍 Cool gun
@gin3648
@gin3648 2 жыл бұрын
An open bolt machine pistol, that sounds terrifying…ly fun.
@rong1924
@rong1924 2 жыл бұрын
Imagine examining the pistol if you didn't have the rest of the setup. "So as soon as you pick up this gun it just fires continuously until you put it down or it runs out of ammo???"
@mattisvov
@mattisvov 2 жыл бұрын
LOOK at this thing! Just LOOK at it! It's... I am seriously at a loss of words.
@bryangrote8781
@bryangrote8781 2 жыл бұрын
This thing is like....a machine derringer? Ultra small back pack carry version of a heavy MG. Genius!
@1982rrose
@1982rrose 2 жыл бұрын
That tripod would be an awesome centre piece on the right dinning room table.
@gasmonkey1000
@gasmonkey1000 2 жыл бұрын
*Sees title* Why? Why would anyone in their right mind not named "Beretta" want to copy that contraption? Why would they base anything off of it?
@xcmledder3420
@xcmledder3420 2 жыл бұрын
Double gun go brrrrrrrrrrr
@azkrouzreimertz9784
@azkrouzreimertz9784 2 жыл бұрын
Because you need more Dakka
@tomaspabon2484
@tomaspabon2484 2 жыл бұрын
I mean I can kinda see the theory behind it. Machineguns were still trying to find a place in military doctrine so a very very light, handy mounted machine gun could be a thing.
@engineermerasmus2810
@engineermerasmus2810 2 жыл бұрын
As said in the video, it impresed the Austro Hungarians and since they were fighting in the worst place a war can be fought in, aka the top of mountians where everything is frozen solid, a small and yet deadly machinegun like this was thought to be a good idea
@scottmaddow7879
@scottmaddow7879 2 жыл бұрын
Brrrrrrrrrrrrt! X 2
@stevekreitler9349
@stevekreitler9349 2 жыл бұрын
That looks like the cutest and coolest range toy *ever*. Gonna have to share this video with the the 3d2A crowd!
@garrickmartin7707
@garrickmartin7707 2 жыл бұрын
That was extremely cool. What a way out there idea. Thanks for that.
@rodrigodepierola
@rodrigodepierola 2 жыл бұрын
Normal Pepole: There's nothing crazier than the flying beehive of a Villa Perosa. Austria-Hungary: Hold my pálinka.
@fien111
@fien111 2 жыл бұрын
If I had a nickel for every time I've seen a double barrel pistol caliber heavy machinegun I'd have TWO nickels! Which isn't a lot but it's weird that it's happened twice, right?
@ihcfn
@ihcfn 2 жыл бұрын
Stuff like this is the reason I'm subscribed!
@HereticalKitsune
@HereticalKitsune 2 жыл бұрын
Such an adorable concept! I love it!
@andrewgable7273
@andrewgable7273 2 жыл бұрын
Wow!!!! That is pretty sweet. I never knew anyone even made anything like that!!! That is awesome!!!!!! Thanks for sharing!!!!
@thebigchip1711
@thebigchip1711 2 жыл бұрын
Son: “Mom, can we have the Villar Perosa?” Mom: “We have Villar Perosa at home.” The Villar Perosa at home:
@TacticalTerry
@TacticalTerry 2 жыл бұрын
Wish I could Bubba the tripod a little and install two of those Arsenal AF-2011's for some quad-barrel 45ACP action.
@Remington53
@Remington53 2 жыл бұрын
hammer follow is straight up part of the design, it's the only way that it fires. I am in awe of this design.
@SHMUGI2
@SHMUGI2 2 жыл бұрын
As a slovenian I love seeing Austro-Hungarian weaponry.
@SilverAc0rn
@SilverAc0rn 2 жыл бұрын
The mount is like if Mattel or Fisher Price made Baby's First MG Mount.
@0b3rz0nK
@0b3rz0nK 2 жыл бұрын
Awww, smol tripod. When it grows up, it wants to be a ZSU 23-2!
@ericsignorotti5951
@ericsignorotti5951 2 жыл бұрын
I believe the Styer-Han pistol in the image is actually a pair of the pistols mounted on a shoulder stock with extended magazines.
@Psykomancer
@Psykomancer 2 жыл бұрын
I can just picture Ian mag dumping this contraption. The giggle factor would be off the charts.
@Steve.Cutler
@Steve.Cutler 2 жыл бұрын
Another firearm I didn't know even existed. Learn something new everytime I come over here! Too bad you couldn't shoot it!
@alancranford3398
@alancranford3398 2 жыл бұрын
I forgot the science fiction movie, but an American soldier and a Chinese soldier were dropped off on an island to fight over a satellite that had crashed on the island. The American had a double-submachine gun--two receivers and magazines and barrels welded together with one buttstock and one trigger. This gun reminded me of that all-but-forgotten Frommer.
@riccardorosin9094
@riccardorosin9094 Жыл бұрын
We have one here in Trieste at the de Henriquez museum.
@rodgerjohnson3375
@rodgerjohnson3375 2 жыл бұрын
This FEG is truly a Forgotten Weapon.
@IndianaJoe3
@IndianaJoe3 2 жыл бұрын
First thought: KAWAII!!! Second thought: "What is this, a machine gun for ants?"
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