Formal Prayer Vs. Unscripted Prayer

[@chelseaboyle8472]

Protestant converting to Catholicism. I think both unscripted and formal prayers are amazing . Each have their time and place . Those unscripted when you are just talking with your God , or maybe you are upset and are asking for a miracle. The scripted for when you don’t have the words, or are in a moment where you need listen instead of speak , focusing on the promises and attributes of God. I always remind myself that God is bigger than all the trivial expectations, standards, or observations we put on ourselves. He will meet you where you are at , in scripted or unscripted prayer alike.

[@BrewMeister27]

For anyone who wants to maintain a regular prayer life, I think scripted prayers are invaluable. Some mornings, I feel really distracted and can hardly concentrate on praying. In those times, scripted prayers, like the rosary, help me to offer that time to God, even if it's in an imperfect way and I don't feel an emotional rise from it. I'd also add that scripted prayers can act like mantras for more meditative prayer. This is how the rosary should work, when prayed well. While you're praying the repetitive prayers, you're meditating on the mysteries of Christ's life, death, and resurrection. The different decades of the rosary present a subject to meditate upon and give you a timeframe for that meditation. There is so much wisdom in the tradition of the Church!

[@jose97777]

I agree, scripted prayers make me feel closer to god. That's why I like Latin Mass as well. Normal mass sometimes it feels like you just go there, listen to the readings, take Communion and leave. But in a Latin Mass you don't understand the readings unless you have a book or speak Latin. It feels like you actually go there to pray to god, it feels very powerful and reverent.

[@realmless4193]

While I do recognize the essential value of rote prayer, it is essential to point out that if our only prayers are rote prayers, we will take breaks, Ie. We will not pray without ceasing. To pray without ceasing, we must pray with the heart constantly and the mouth on occasion.

[@HolyKhaaaaan]

I do find that, on occasion, the simple, traditional Jesus Prayer of the Orthodox actually bridges that gap quite well.

[@realmless4193]

@@HolyKhaaaaan yes it can, but remember that prayer is supposed to lead to the prayer of the heart, simple recitation is not an end in and of itself.

[@thomasmaddox8688]

Outstanding point. I find that rote prayers are great for when I set aside time for prayer and only prayer, but unscripted is the best for impromptu praying throughout the day.

[@blakedevries240]

Not really true…

[@SturFriedBrains]

mmmm, ask Eastern Rite Catholics how they feel about that. The Jesus Prayer is rote, but it is the very means by which they attempt to achieve Hesychasm.

[@feeble_stirrings]

As an Orthodox Christian, the introduction of formal prayers into my life has been a huge aid to me. It can often feel like I have no idea what to say or I'm tripping over my words in prayer or, as you said, just stammering over the same fumbling words over and over. Praying the prayers of (and with) the Saints who've gone before us not only helps me find the words I struggle with, but it also helps to form me in the life and faith of the Church. Lex orandi, lex credendi.

[@ThroughTheLensOfAutism]

I remember the priest who taught my English class in ninth grade. He asked that we start each class with a prayer, and at the beginning of the school year, we would take turns, one student saying a prayer each day, and we all said some existing prayers we had memorized. After about two months though, he asked each of us to pray in our own words.

[@michaelcaudron9883]

A very timely video Brian. I spoke with a young man today who is suffering from drug addiction. He felt that he would have to overcome his addiction by himself. I'll be checking on him next week and I'll use your "you don't get rich by paying yourself" analogy in an effort for him to seek help.

[@mariondapsance7803]

You really are inspired. It is so clear. Thank you !

[@davidfleb]

While i agree with some points you raised it's important to note that mental prayer is a higher form of prayer. From St Francis de Sales "If, while saying vocal prayers, your heart feels drawn to mental prayer, do not resist it, but calmly let your mind fall into that channel, without troubling because you have not finished your appointed vocal prayers. The mental prayer you have substituted for them is more acceptable to God, and more profitable to your soul"

[@wendyfield7708]

May I suggest people read St.Teresa of Avila, the great Carmelite, on prayer. There are different kinds of prayer and all are needed. Liturgical prayer is also necessary, and for the church as a whole. Meditation, oral prayer, short interjections, silent contemplation, etc.

[@carolynkimberly4021]

Thank you. First thing in the morning I say the Prayers at the foot of the altar and then a bunch of my memorized prayers. As soon as I try to talk to Jesus as a "friend", I start to daydream.

[@drasperheim]

Your metaphors and comparisons are always enlightening and helpful. Thank you!

[@damianwhite504]

thats nice. I find them stomach churning and egotistical, but we are all different

[@stephenson19861]

Scripted prayer give both content and form, it's a language that needs to be learned. On the other hand, it allows us to dive in an ocean of prayer, we are joined with all those who came before us and pray now, and will pray after us, with same words.

[@kimfleury]

I hadn't thought of these points, which are very good. Thank you, and as always, 3 Aves for you 🌹🌹🌹🙏🏻✝️

[@timandlaurakate]

This is so well put! I tried to rewrite an “easier” Hail Mary when I first converted! Now I LOVE wrote prayers. They have been essential to me also in traumatic moments. When my baby was seizing due to a high fever, all I could do is say the Hail Mary! Thank God I had something to bring me peace that my mind didn’t have to come up with as I was not capable in that moment to do that!

[@AppalachianAcademics]

It’s also less daunting to pray from a prayer book or pray a rote prayer compared to informal prayer, especially if you have those prayers memorized. I’m less than articulate and can’t always express my thoughts or feelings, but I can do so when I pray the prayers handed on to me by the Church. I make the prayers my own. It’s like how the Jews (and Catholics also) treat praying the psalms. They encompass all of the human experience, so there is a psalm you can pray for any situation. Jesus himself made use of the psalms in his prayer (Psalm 22 on the cross is the most famous example). I will always be grateful to the Church for giving me these resources that have truly enabled me to pray.

[@joan8862]

Exactly. I am the same way. I try to make those scripted prayers my own.

[@6reynoldsgajsjk]

I never really thought about the traditional prayers of the Church this way. Very enlightening. To me, Lectio Divina is where mental meditative prayer is best, directly putting our personal feelings and experiences into God’s Word. As much as I would like every rosary I pray to be “meditative” the quality is often lacking “meditation”, and yet I know praying the rosary is effective and what Our Lady did ask for reparation of souls. That is-the rosary is what we do to console Mary and prayer for the salvation of souls. Recitation of the rosary is a gift we have been asked to give. The Mass is an obligation-source and summit, and personal meditative prayer is necessary too giving meaning to all other forms of prayer. It is all prayer with purpose, and no prayer is ever wasted!

[@maryweisenbacher1034]

Hi Brian, thank you for that! It is very liberating to realize you can use formal prayers from a book or something and this will be as pleasing to God as the ones you try to think up. I guess that's why prayers like the Rosary are so effective at changing hearts.

[@chase6579]

That's essentially what the psalms are

[@reinedire7872]

This really hit home. I've been saying a personal prayer for years now in addition to those I was taught. I continue to say it, but my personal prayer is now as scripted for me as the others. It has its use, but it pales in comparison to the tried, tested, and true.

[@cindycrocker2961]

Thank you Brian. Plz continue your encouraging and enlightening videos. They are a great spiritual help. Three hail Marys for you and yours. 🙏🌹🌹🌹🙏

[@annapobst]

This is brilliant and eye opening 🙏 thank you

[@dzbot3533]

Brian, you are a very good teacher. Do you teach catechism? Maybe something to think about. Have a great day👍

[@JodianWarrior]

Love the kids running in the background! Sounds like my house. :)

[@henrybn14ar]

We had a multi denominational prayer group at at. We found it worked best with a simple fixed framework with space set aside for intercessions.

[@normbabbitt4325]

Thank you, Brian! This talk of yours was very helpful for me, personally speaking. I've had a bit of guilt regarding relying on formal prayer, even though I found it comforting and encouraging of discipline to do so. There is nothing better than formal prayers such as the Jesus Prayer, the Hail Mary, the repetition of Psalm 23 as a heartfelt prayer, etc in promoting praying without ceasing. I love this talk of yours. Blessings! One of my favorites is the Fatima prayer: "Oh, my Jesus, forgive us our sins, save us from the fires of hell, and lead all souls to heaven, especially those who are most in need of thy blessing. Amen.

[@thebacons5943]

I think you ultimately have to chalk this up to a matter of prudential judgement, especially if you pray both ways. I find unscripted prayer helps me reflect better on my own conscience and draw closer to God through a more authentic and focused engagement with Him. My scripted prayer, which I confess is mostly limited to the Our Father, helps reorient myself to what prayer is all about and avoid turning the practice into a simple therapy session. I also find repeating the prayer helps when I need to engage with God in a less conversational matter and simply make myself present in His company. Thanks for making us thinking harder about this distinction.

[@amyschlegel1180]

St. Therese viewed prayer in s slightly different way altogether. “For me, prayer is a burst from my heart, it is a simple glance thrown toward heaven, a cry of thanksgiving and love in times of trial as well as in times of joy. Frequently, only silence can express my prayer.”

[@MNkno]

Another very good, insightful video! I had always wondered about "this our sacrifice of prayer and thanksgiving", until I realized, that for anyone who signed on to post-modern narcissism, giving that up to Sit Down and Listen; Join the Group In Saying the Same Meaningful Things, and join the chorus, joining a traditional worship service IS a sacrifice of narcisissm and self-centeredness to start to engage in "other"- centeredness. To sit down and attentively listen .. for 90-min at least once a week.. is a workout that is good for our souls. There is a time where we are called to transform / be transformed. This is what used to bother me about saying the rosary - if I repeated what I was saying to that degree, my earthly parents would be very irritated. So why inflict that on our Heavenly Father? The point of realization is, we are saying the rosary for ourselves, to really rub into our souls in the balm of each thought as if we were working oil into some stiff dry leather. There is prayer where we send our thoughts to God, and that is usually in private - or in formal format in the Intercessions.. There is also prayer that is meant to transform ourselves, and align us with what we were made to be.

[@marygr8064]

As a cradle Catholic, I didn’t learn how to talk to Jesus. I have learned scripted prayers. These prayers are beautiful. I needed to learn how to talk directly to our Lord. Both are beautiful. Don’t stop. Keep trying. God wants to hear from us. God bless.

[@danielpelloquin9845]

For me, “casual” prayers are more authentic whilst scripted prayer has more reverence for the lord. Both have so much importance in maintaining faith.

[@TnOrchidguy]

Thank you, brother, thank you.

[@maciejpieczula631]

"In prayer it is better to have heart without words, than words without heart."~Gandhi

[@gerddonni2017]

Deep psychological insight! Thank you very much!

[@chase6579]

Unscripted prayer is honestly exhausting.

[@Wojo888]

Thank you for your work. I believe there is a science to the practice.

[@PeteV80]

Running into this same thing. My morning prayer seems to be very similar every day

[@dragonhold4]

(7:04) Idolatry: _worship of ourselves_ _Idolatry is what happens when we try to negotiate or manipulate some power or entity that we believe we can control through that negotiation process. Participation in this has nothing to do with being changed ourselves but trying to change divinity so that it better suits our own preconceived preferences_ -Brian Holdsworth

[@tateharrigan8061]

I had a priest tell me at the TLM parish that he prefers people not to use personal prayers, because they could pray for something that we may not agree with or might not be God's active will, He just encouraged people to say a Hail Mary or our father because our Lord made it and he can deem it worthy of your intention.

[@reaganmorris7903]

Forgive me for a somewhat tangential question, but I can't resist. If you must know, I think the focus of the video is good, and I found the argument you presented to be great. But as for my question, it has to do with your belief that the time you spent mastering a video game in childhood was wasted. I don't know precisely why you believe such a thing. Perhaps you consider all games, including sports and board games to ultimately be a waste of time. Maybe you consider the specific video games *you* played in childhood to be a waste of time. Or perhaps you consider video games in general to be a waste of time. In any case, I am very curious why you believe so, and if you have time to explain, I'd love to know.

[@reaganmorris7903]

Hmm... it looks like my response didn't send or was deleted. Well, I was just saying that you look like a scammer. The name, the improperly punctuated sentence, the concept that you would reply using a new account created this year rather than the main channel. It's all rather suspicious. But I believe in the principle of assuming innocence until guilt is proven. As such, I will offer you a chance to prove yourself, though I admittedly have extreme doubts that you will be able to do so. Simply reply to this comment using the official Brian Holdsworth channel and verify your identity.

[@amarok229]

Honestly, I will sometimes write out prayers beforehand and will recite those alongside the ones in the Book of Common Prayer.

[@dawnmuir5052]

Thanks for this! How do you square formal (scripted) prayer with Christ's injunction against the vain repetitions of the heathens? What marks the difference?

[@RickW-HGWT]

I think vain repetition refers to the content of the prayers, I.e. praying for things not for the good of your soul or for selfish gain. Repitiion in prayer like in the Rosary can be used to comfort and enlighten the mind and soul, novenas can be used for a specific intention so you can save time and effort.

[@annap7678]

@YAJUN YUAN You know what, Yajun, I really don’t think that KA Fleury was disagreeing with your initial statement but was agreeing with it and expanding upon it. That’s the way I read it-you opened a topic with your statement, and then there was further discussion and refinement of the truth you expressed. For a useful example, think about Isaiah’s words, “Prepare the way of the Lord; make straight in the desert a highway for our God.” It’s a complete statement, just like yours, but it needs some fleshing out. Isaiah goes on to do this to an extent in the following verses-making mountains/hills low, crooked ways straight, etc-and many commentators have jumped on this passage since then-HOW do we clear away the debris so that our land, our home, our hearts are ready for the coming of the Lord-how do we make welcome the One who created the universe? The answer is the same in the largest ways (Mass, prayer, adoration, Scripture, cultivating the virtues, feeding the hungry, etc) but will differ in individual ways for each of us. KA Fleury’s response is part of this process, and people will go on to enlarge upon and refine it, and possibly disagree in some ways. But we are all in love with the same God and on the same path which we are daily trying to make straighter-we are on the same side of the spiritual battle that is taking place, and we need to ignore distractions and stay alert for our marching orders!

[@annap7678]

Uh oh, and now I don’t see KA Fleury’s reply. I accidentally hit forward and went to the next video YT had in store for me while I was editing my answer so I saved it, went back to Brian’s channel, and put it back. At that point, KA Fleury’s reply to your initial comment was missing-or at least I couldn’t see it myself. 🤦🏼‍♀️ I really haven’t perfected this “peace-making thing” yet.

[@dawnmuir5052]

@@annap7678 was this in response to my initial comment about "vain repetition". If so, it would be good.to see Fleury's comment. Too bad! Others responded that it is more the content than the repetition or scriptedness that matters, but I don't see where they get that from Jesus' statement. If there is some historical/scriptural context or translation issue that's missing, that would be more helpful.

[@SydneyCarton2085]

I preface my scripted prayers like the Rosary with real and personal intentions for that prayer which is a personal prayer in itself. The personal prayer of intentions animates the scripted prayer.

[@richardbenitez1282]

I remember reading a comment from a guy. He said after converting from Protestant to catholic a year ago he still found Catholics odd and confusing. Example: his church friends jumped in a bus for a trip to a museum. Just as they were about to take off, everyone said the Our father prayer together. His comment was why the our father instead of some spontaneous prayer to the lord for a safe trip. He couldn’t figure. He thought this is proof Catholics were crazy. Then he asked what is this about the Sacred Heart. He asked if it was meant the Heart of Jesus as a symbol of god!s love? No! Every one shouted. It’s the body part we pray to. gee! What kind of crazy people did I sign up with? Of course I know why the bus tour Catholics broke into the our father together.

[@michaeljefferies2444]

I find that the more scripted prayer I do, the more unscripted prayer it leads me into, because God is on my mind more often.

[@angelaa.4254]

One important thing > there are some formal prayers with PROMISES and some that give INDULGENCES, this is not the case with unscripted prayer

[@BrianHoldsworth]

That's a very good point!

[@nonnymouse24]

Switched off as soon as you did an ad

[@rolandovelasquez135]

Imagine that you have a son. He has a problem or an extreme need, or he just wants to tell you how much he loves you. He comes to you with a formal memorized petition written by some other person. Don't know about you but that would break my heart. My own two cents. If you have an actual literal loving relationship with someone you might use scripted prayers, but only to a bare minimum.

[@ajmeier8114]

Both forms of prayer are necessary. In a perfect world, formal prayer would be all that is needed. But we aren't perfect and IMO only praying formal prayer leads to going through the motions. A big part of the issues we see in the Catholic laity and why we see people leaving the Church is because they don't have a relationship with God. They go to Mass but they don't have a prayer life. Or if they do have a prayer life, it is simply reciting prayers. Going through the motions is much like having a conversation with a spouse while scrolling facebook on your phone. Is it really a conversation? Both Formal and Unscripted have their place and compliment one another. Maybe I totally missed on the point you were making but it seemed you were championing for only formal prayer. If that isn't correct, I apologize.

[@cathyyosha]

You ruined my prayers life for a few days. I talk to God alot during the day and, yes, maybe it comes from a selfish place, but I think God loves the pouring out of our hearts him throughout the day. Thank God I figured out I don't have to agree with everything you say.

[@ChuckyLarms]

I see the value and use both styles. Time and place. Sometimes scripted feels robotic and not genuine. Sometimes freestyle feels rushed or pressured to be perfect and say the right things

[@juancawalker]

I understand and I agree with you. But..... How is "not manipulating prayer" to saints, or some specific saint like "St Expedit" because"he take care of urgent prayers" ... How is that not trying to get out desires quicker than just praying to our God the Father in Jesus's name?

[@BrewMeister27]

It's simply the recognition that the prayers of a righteous person are more powerful. And the prayers of many are more powerful than one's own. That's why when we have an urgent need, like a seriously ill family member, we will stop praying to ask others to pray for our intention. This is a good and holy practice.

[@francishaight2062]

Ok, but where does mental prayer fit in with all this?

[@rolandovelasquez135]

Speaking of prayer, I take the biblical approach. Human reasoning is fine but I just figure the Lord God Almighty must know the best way for me to pray. Don't know if you've noticed but in both the Old and the New Testament, all Believers always pray DIRECTLY to God the Father. Isn't that awesome? And in the New Testament it's always directly to God the Father, "in the name of Jesus". In fact when the disciples asked Jesus himself how to pray he said: "... your Father knows what you need before you ask Him. Pray, then, in this way: ‘Our Father who is in heaven, Hallowed be Your name. Your kingdom come..." Matthew 6:8‭-‬9 And... "But you, when you pray, go into your inner room, close your door and pray to your Father who is in secret, and your Father who sees what is done in secret will reward you." Matthew 6:6 And in God's Word Jesus himself even intercedes for us. This is exactly what it says: "Therefore He is able also to save forever those who draw near to God through Him, since He always lives to make intercession for them." Hebrews 7:25 "Christ Jesus is He who died, yes, rather who was raised, who is at the right hand of God, who also intercedes for us." Romans 8:34 And the Holy Spirit: "In the same way the Spirit also helps our weakness; for we do not know how to pray as we should, but the Spirit Himself intercedes for us with groanings too deep for words; Roman 8:26 That's good enough for me.

[@annap7678]

I like what you just did right there-avoiding the confrontational approach-and I agree with everything you said and applaud the scriptures you quoted. The “communion of saints” referred to in the Bible touches earth and includes saints on earth and those who have gone before, and we can ask for their prayers just as we would ask a friend or neighbor to pray. And Mary, the Mother of Jesus and Queen of Saints, is the best “prayer partner” of all, because it’s hard to dispute her access to her Son or to imagine anyone who has ever lived who could be more loved by Him.

[@marygr8064]

We are not own liberators. On Jesus can save us.

[@jessica3285]

😍😍😍

[@josephconnelly5195]

1:44 Your Canadian is showing

[@richardbenitez1282]

Little is said that scripted prayers teach us. In the Hail Mary, we learn that Mary is “full of grace “. As an adult this is obvious. As a kid, I remember this was not obvious. I remember thinking,how is Mary full of grace? And all the time? Same with our father. IT’s instructional. What about these thug type guys in prison? You think these guys are going to automatically understand inter dynamics of god and man? Say some written prayers together from a card!

[@ivandinsmore6217]

Why do Americans begin a sentence with a burst of fast paced chatter? It is most annoying.

[@kimfleury]

There are no Americans in this video.

[@markpugner9716]

Timestamp?

[@everetunknown5890]

I think there is room for scripted and unscripted prayers, just as I think there is room for orthodoxy and unorthodoxy in God's churches. Both help. God bless ✌🕊

[@alaunaenpunto3690]

Ngl, scripted feels fake

[@JodianWarrior]

Only to start with. In my experience praying with the Psalms, I find that my prayer has become a lot more Scriptural. It has deepened my prayer life and often provided me with words to pray when I was otherwise at a loss. Often my own words don't quite express what I'm experiencing, but the Psalms provide a depth that allows me to express myself more openly with God.

[@joan8862]

What about the Our Father? Jesus gave us that prayer? Do you reject that as scripted also?

[@essafats5728]

@YAJUN YUAN whose to say ur always right? SDA's, followers of a false prophetess, has all the truths?

[@essafats5728]

@YAJUN YUAN God's word via covenant with Moses or the new covenant with Jesus Christ?

[@essafats5728]

@YAJUN YUAN agree, but the many askew, half-baked truths different interpretations...now that is a problem.

[@Ghest735]

Hello Jay Dyer and kyke made a video about will you answer it?

[@alaunaenpunto3690]

Do you speak English?