Former Jehovah’s Witness Writer, Elder, Pioneer speaks out

[@altworldly]

🚨 Hey gang! For the first 15 minutes you might hear my washing machine going in the background. I messed up the raw files so it was the only audio I have. My bad! It stops after that, apologies for the messy sound up top.

[@takeyouryokeandlearnfromme1771]

This is what happens when you don't say a prayer before commencing the interview, your home appliances become demon-possesed.

[@rhecb]

Butler got the day off?

[@criseldaperalta1168]

It's ok later you can watch it again, just like me 2 hrs ago this has been stream... Now watching though

[@futureofhealthforlife]

Great video. So he does not even believe in god now, man the JWs truly know how to ruin relationships with a higher power.

[@vusimngomezulu2500]

Isaiah 8:10, 2thimoty 3:7-9, 2Peter 2:1-3.

[@dantoinettetaylor1663]

One of the reasons I woke up was watching a video for the weekly meeting showing the Governing Body talking about the Convention and assembly programs. When they said that the programs were signed off by the GB 4 to 6 years in advance I was totally shocked. I thought of times that we were given talks about having a sense of urgency and the end is near and thought Wow! This was around the time that the project for the Media center was announced with a construction time of about 5-6 years (2025 - 2026). That was another shock to me and throw in the overlapping generation, I began to see that there was no damn urgency and I needed to stop stressing about “Armageddon is near” and live my life. Thus began my process of fading and inactivity. I now feel so free!

[@ucanliv4ever]

There are still people alive that experienced WWI

[@simonf7367]

@ oh dear. Are you actually hanging on to this? Do you actually still believe that when everyone who was alive in 1914 passes, that Armageddon is coming? All the governing body members are dead!

[@JOA-ni1vj]

Generation mania still has a grip on so many, sad 😢

[@carloscatarino7890]

The overlapping generation bs totally woke me up. All those decades being reminded over and over again that the end is almost upon us because the 1914 generation was going to experience Armageddon, and then "poof, we were wrong, we're not sorry, and you still MUST trust us because we are the true representatives of God".

[@ThatGirl0930]

@dantoinettetaylor1663 yes, that overlapping generation never made any sense to me at all. It showed the blatant foolery and deceptive practices of charlatans attempting to keep their blind flowered blinded and mislead. Keep the hook in their noses.

[@tammyg8031]

Great interview. A must watch. Its great to see so many leaving the DOOMSDAY CULTS these days, no matter which one they were pulled in or born into. The more people that leave these high controlled groups, the more we can all collectively exercise and keep our freedoms & make sure their not taken & to better protect children and all humanity!!❤

[@ExJwMJ]

This was such an amazing interview, Jake! I felt emotional, happy, and angry all at once. This is almost exactly how my wife has been treated. She has NO FRIENDS because of me. It’s absolutely ridiculous! I haven’t been disfellowshipped yet, but I’m still shunned because of my KZbin channel. The only thing that saved me from being disfellowshipped was making the smart decision to switch congregations right before the allegations came up, I slowly faded and the elders once and awhile text me to see how I’m doing but I never respond, I chuckle because I’ve even gotten invites to gatherings 😅 Now the only reason my channel even got noticed in the Spanish Congregation (former congregation) is because one or two ACTIVE Witnesses were watching it. It’s so unfair. We speak the truth, but the people who sneak around and break their own rules to watch “apostate” videos are the ones ruining reputations. Yet they face no consequences for their actions. On the bright side, the way I was treated and how my wife was treated, ended up being what helped her wake up. The elders are digging their own grave, and our experiences highlighting this so-called “agape” are opening more eyes. More and more current members are tuning into our channels and starting to trust the news and reports that expose this doomsday cult for what it is.

[@benkopilow7079]

Thank you for sharing your similar story, I can relate to that so much, Appreciated.

[@ExJwMJ]

@ thank you bro

[@kevinhahn3286]

What does Malinda now believe is true? Is she spiritual or still cling to former JW doctrine?

[@benkopilow7079]

@@kevinhahn3286 I prefer not to comment publicly on Melinda's specific beliefs. That is for her to comment on if she wants to. I've caused enough pain for her with all this in recent years, I don't want to inadvertently cause anymore.

[@owenmccallum6076]

Ben likes boys just like you😘

[@ablue7335]

This is wonderful! You do a fantastic job Jake! And you really honor and respect your guest, with your patience and level of engagement. I really enjoyed him sharing all of this. Appreciate you both.

[@EXITjwDISRESPECT-d9b]

One of the best videos on KZbin. (right up there with a recent 'Goatlike Personalities" video explaining overlapping generations and the shunning of their new daughter) Much appreciate the honesty and heartfelt feelings you both shared with us. RE: Depression. One of the last conversations I had with an Elder in our congregation was him telling me that 'most of the sisters in the hall were on antidepressants'. So this Elders solution if you questioned the 'truth' was to take narcotics? That gave me the final permission to get out of this cult. Bye Bye high control group. I quit my medications and started listening to positive affirmation videos daily. Was in bad shape and even started listening to the 'night-time' sleep videos for the past two years. I will never be completely healed, however, being told daily that I have value as a human being is a refreshing positive journey.

[@benkopilow7079]

Thank you for your kind words. And I can second the comments of that elder you spoke to. It used to be a tongue in cheek joke at our Kingdom Hall in the 90's that we should dispense prozac along with people's magazine orders, since half the congregation was using it. Let that sink in for moment for the so called happiest people on earth!

[@apostkate1356]

When I started to waking up the interview with Ben, I remember this moment as if it was today. I realised then that I am in a cult. Thank you for sharing your insights 😊

[@benkopilow7079]

Thank you for listening again and for your comment.

[@heatherwillson4862]

I love what he said, "I choose friends based on their character, not their religion." That is what I have done, & sadly that includes family. But they are the ones who are in control of their character. A persons character is determined by what they do when no one is looking!

[@wallyparachnowitsch324]

As a past pioneer,elder ,very active This video validates sooooo many of my feelings Thank you for sharing

[@notyomonky]

Wow. Huge point at about 49:25. I also used to question if I would be JW without my parents and my conclusion also was no. I would have never bought into the bs without pressure from my family.

[@benkopilow7079]

Wow, interesting to hear that - thanks for sharing.

[@RonPOMO-ps9fm]

Thanks Jake and Ben! Great interview. It was crazy to hear the aftermath of his interview with Fifth. It's nuts that both of you were found out within a day of appearing on KZbin!

[@benkopilow7079]

Thanks Ron

[@thewatchtowerstudy4511]

really clever man and very much enjoyed listening to his points. I really feel that a lot of what he says there align with my own research and progression in leaving the cult. Nice one Jake for bringing onto this platform.

[@benkopilow7079]

Thank you for your kind comments. I'm not really that smart, but just obsessively studious. hehehe

[@Nathan-jq1uw]

Excellent interview. Should be viewed and taken to heart by anyone trying to extricate themselves from the organization's tentacles.

[@TechyBen]

Deep respect for someone able to open up like this, both to get out of the cult, and to get out of themselves being in the cult and being a new, better person! :)

[@benkopilow7079]

Thank you for your lovely comment.

[@TheRealFirecracker16]

“Happiness and Joy”…one of the first things that made my brain started thinking and questioning was a talk on happiness and when the statement was heard about “Jehovah’s happy people” I looked around the hall and was amused that I did not see even ONE smile anywhere on those around me… and found myself looking around at each meeting after that and realized… “These people are not happy…” 🤔

[@ricksanchez9669]

There are no numbers but anecdotally the rates of alcoholism and us of psychiatric meds among witnesses is sky high. I know in my Hall most people either drank or if they didn't it was because they used to have a problem with it. Almost everyone was on anti depressants, I still am. Unhappy people indeed.

[@sandrabiggin752]

Nailed it , I was never happy. I AM NOW! As a born again Chirstian .❤ our lord and savior Jesus Kings of Kings and Lord of Lord's. Amen. 🙏🙏🙏

[@joelruiz3025]

✝️

[@BillWalters-kx8sw]

I remember as a kid walking in to the hall, and my mom telling me "you better smile, Jehovah is a happy god" so our family would walk in with fake smiles lol

[@Moonwing72]

Spot on. I can’t remember hardly any witnesses that were actually happy. No wonder, as they are all waiting for some fictional paradise to come and fix all their problems. Constantly chasing the carrot on a stick they never catch. Never been happier than after I left. I started living each day in the now and being mindful and grateful. It takes a long time to retrain your brain after the lifetime of brainwashing 💜

[@emelylopez680]

It's amazing that you were able to interview Ben. I remember taking a statistics 101 class and that was my introduction into questioning the sources, statistics and bias that the Watchtower uses in their publications. I always wanted to talk to someone in the writing department. One of the first interviews I saw when waking up was the interview of Ben with ex JW Fifth.

[@benkopilow7079]

Thanks for your lovely comment.

[@emelylopez680]

@@benkopilow7079 Thank you, I have thoroughly enjoyed both your interviews :)

[@kevinhahn3286]

Thank you. Living post trauma I appreciate you all.

[@kevinhahn3286]

My wife was described as amazing loving generous . When she went to elders for help as she was drinking at night to sleep ..she and I get soft shunned. Eventually she was DF for 10 years no help no kindness. She got sober via AA no help from jw s . I was ignored treated as nothing . We were known as loving supportive in all practical ways.She got sober 4 years before her death from a failed surgery. Crickets from my 30 years of jw "friends" some secretly confessed ti me their care but that they would face DF if they reached out . I was done . I see the fruits the identify marker love amongst themselves was evident. Their cruelty was clear.

[@ucanliv4ever]

emely, there are 3 types of lies...lies, damn lies and statistics...you are being played

[@LauraOttawa]

I enjoyed this interview! It's fascinating how so many people can disregard logic just to remain a member of a certain group... I think this is one of the main reasons I'm interested in the study of culty organizations.

[@laurenbyrnes8907]

What a beautiful story. As an ex jw therapist from Australia, if this brought up anyone looking for mental health resources in Australia Life Line Australia 13 11 14 As Ben mentioned Relationships Australia I work with ex jw clients as having a therapist who understands the religion can bypass a lot of time explaining and educating the therapist about your background. But there are a lot of therapists who are religious trauma informed. Thank you for sharing Ben

[@benkopilow7079]

Thanks for your additional comments Lauren. Glad you are providing that service. It’s hard to find a therapist that has an understanding of high control groups. We had to just educate our along the way.

[@ucanliv4ever]

We'll be right over, Nurse Ratched

[@NewSkiwi]

And NZ?

[@laurenbyrnes8907]

@ Hi there, NZ resources? Or do I work with clients from NZ?

[@nathancooper1]

Where are you based Lauren?

[@MrSickpuppy10]

When I was a kid in there they actually used to cite their quotes sources because it was nearly impossible to actually verify. With the advent of the internet they stopped quoting their sources because people had the opportunity to verify their out of context quotes 😂

[@simoneneveragain2939]

Thanks!

[@simoneneveragain2939]

Absolutely!! You are the best♥️

[@shessie]

Thank you both for a fascinating interview. I too am in a mixed faith marriage & identify w/ the challenges you & your wife have struggled w/. Honest communication is soooo difficult for us, as regards faith. Someone has said, " what is true about someone spiritually, is what is most true about them", so how deeply can we know another...esp a spouse if walls of fear are erected that are intended to separate us. If the truth has the power to set men free, can it not then stand on it's own 2 feet?? There is good, & there is evil under the sun. There is order & there is chaos. There is the beautiful, & there is the ugly. There is the genuine, & there is the counterfeit/the pseudo/the imitation. You had the courage to look behind the curtain,....to not deny that you have a brain for a reason....& that....., in spite of all the pain that came your way for using it......for thinking critically. I hope you might know healing from the scars of a lifetime as a slave to a religion, that "out of the Tower" must not end in atheism ( a natural enough response to waking up to a rip-off/ a counterfeit....".fooled me once w/ this God stiff....never again. ") Freedom is not easy & it's often messy. I pray you won't stay parked/camped here, but press on w/ the same intellectual vigor that got you this far. Escape from a lifetime of sexual abuse does not automatically make one sexually whole....for example. I personally am finding healing in the Great Physician....the rescuing Savior & Healer who I believe came in order to die to set us free from empty religion & empty gate-keeper suits......& unto a genuine personal relationship w/ Him. Press on friends & seekers after truth. Your journey isn't over.

[@bessmcneill971]

Love these long form interviews with old timers (I can say that, I am one) who have deep insights on the inner workings of the org. So interesting. He is a great storyteller too

[@benkopilow7079]

Thank you for your kind words. I'll even forgive you for calling me an old timer - I'm only 55! hahahaha! :-)

[@bessmcneill971]

@@benkopilow7079Fellow gen X represent ❤ We lived through the 90s version of the generation teaching, the first edition of the Revelation book, and the Creation book! We have seen things lol

[@simoneneveragain2939]

I thank you for your content. It’s mixed with absolute truth and exposure but I still have to laugh with you through the pain. Sending love and appreciation for your work 😊

[@altworldly]

You are too kind! Glad it’s been helpful. This one’s all Ben, though!

[@simonf7367]

This man has said exactly what I have said to my family. “Did I lie? What is it that I said? What apostasy have I said?”

[@bmo5082]

The truth is often harder to hear than a lie.

[@ucanliv4ever]

It's not what you said but when you said it. There is a time to speak and a time to keep quiet. Diurbing the peace and harmony of the congregation will get you removed, and rightly so because you are seeking your own glory and not Jehovah's

[@simonf7367]

@and here we are everyone! Someone who thinks people who disagree should be shunned. Another example of someone who is happy and willing to have me separated from my family despite not saying anything false at all. Would you be willing to discuss further?

[@simonf7367]

@ So, there is a “time” when you say correct things, that will get you shunned and silenced? And are you not a disturbance of peace when you come uninvited to someone’s door to decimate their faith and plant sears of doubt in whatever faith that house holds dear? Are you not doing EXACTLY as you are accusing others?

[@fuzzyh1ghland3r28]

@@ucanliv4everthe truth doesn’t like to be questioned does it ?

[@bethany45101]

Haven’t watched yet but the GASP I GASPED when I was a long ass video from AltWorldly ❤❤❤❤

[@wendysandwell9838]

Thank so much for this interview with Ben. It was truly amazing . So insightful. And he was spot on when he said JW and elders do not truly care or love you they love paradise more. This is so true . Nothing will jeopardise that . Thank you Jake

[@joyo3890]

Ben I so enjoyed how much you have revealed in this interview. I am very familiar with your name! As well as Deetmar Klein and others as I was in Queanbeyan congregation for many years - and ex husband and elder! I had a crisis of faith and although I hung in for many years I knew I had leave. And I’m so grateful to have left all this behind. So much of what you have shared resonates with me. All the best for your wife and yourself.

[@benkopilow7079]

Thanks for your lovely comments. If you ever want to catch up my email address is in the description.

[@UnEarthMeOfficial]

Hi joyo3890, this is Daniel Kopilow, Bens younger brother here. just curious if we know each other as well or not?

[@Marc-rf9gb]

Really enjoyed listening to this discussion. Thank you, both!

[@arix789]

Woke up almost exactly a year ago. Started community college with an Intro to Biology class and the cognitive dissonance was insane! So I made it a "personal study project" to read the evolution brochures mentioned to "prove" to myself I still had "the truth" and ooop- I discovered exactly as Ben did that the quotes and information presented was so misleading and just ignorant !! Combined with when I learned about logically fallacies it was a done deal. I tried to tell my family as gently as possible about hard undeniable facts but confirmation bias is so incredibly strong man. Even though I'm not officially disfellowshipped and just did a hard fade out my jw family stays away from me like the plague LOL

[@benkopilow7079]

Thanks for sharing, can so relate to that. So sorry your family shun you even though you are not officially df'd. Its heartbreaking.

[@Karl-dd4om]

So now, after you have woken up, you believe in Evolution?

[@benkopilow7079]

@@Karl-dd4om well I accept the mountains of evidence for it and the massive amounts of data that scientists have carefully gathered in many varied disciplines that support it.

[@benkopilow7079]

@@Karl-dd4om evolution and the misrepresentation of the science by the society was one of the things that woke me up.

[@Karl-dd4om]

@@benkopilow7079 I'm a non Jehova's Witness. Having attended the public schooling system, I believed in Evolution, until I started to research the facts. Evolution is pseudoscience, it's a hoax!

[@shamrox12]

Such a helpful conversation! Thank you to both of you.❤

[@benkopilow7079]

You are most welcome - thank you.

[@bevmeier5747]

❤what is very serious is these men are dealing with situations and are not QUALIFIED to deal with serious situations . In other reliogens leaders get training in counseling and aiding people in various situations . Here in Australia. Left 2020 age 80 born in . Left due to things TAUGHT I knew were false . Still have my faith . Was strong in my service in organization. Thanks for your story so sad for your dear wife . ❤

[@benkopilow7079]

Absolutely that is such a good point. Elders are not trained in counselling, nor how to deal with CSA victims etc. And many of them are clueless when it comes to mental health issues, some even denying they are real making them completely inept at helping anyone.

[@Rupunzelsawake]

Ben expresses himself so well.

[@benkopilow7079]

Thank you for your kind comment.

[@der1222]

Absolutely stellar interview, especially the part about the scientific inquiry. I have an academic background in STEM all the way up to PhD and postdoc, so it was very difficult trying to keep the academic and JW side in harmony. All the critical thinking skills I developed at university, I suppressed when finding evidence that challenged Genesis for example, where I would just brush the disconnect between the Genesis story and the scientific evidence (that things didn't go the way as described during the creation of man or the flood) under the carpet. But you can only do that up to a certain point, because despite you brushing it up under the carpet, the science doesn't go away and stays in the back of your mind, slowly chipping away all those mental shields my parents and the organization instilled. And this breaking point happened to me when I looked at civilisations like Harappa, Mesopotamia, Gobekli Tepe, whose origins were dated many years before Adam's creation (even 5000-6000 years in the case of Gobekli Tepe). That completely discredited Genesis (or at least, the JW interpretation of it) and hence my whole faith.

[@benkopilow7079]

Thank you for adding your comment and perspective. I can't image how you managed to harmonise those things with so much education. We seem to be able to compartmentalise things in our brain sometimes. I'm embarrassed at how long it took for the penny to drop with me.

[@der1222]

@@benkopilow7079 Hey Ben, appreciate your response and the interview. I think the reason for why I could harmonise things for this long is because of the fact my STEM education was in engineering and not the Genesis destroying hard sciences like evolutionary biology. And probably because I was living with my parents and didn't want to constantly fight - they already busted my nuts for pursuing higher education (but then also paid for it which was kinda weird), so if I would add questioning Genesis in the mix, it would be a rather explosive situation that would have only worsened my social anxiety and loneliness since I had no friends from high school and had no friends outside of this one congregation I was active in - and I didn't really feel connected to the members of this congregation either (which actually turned out to be helpful lateron). Still, the skepticism that I acquired thanks to my university studies (and the trolling from my class mates - some of whom became good friends later) stayed with me during my studies, my PhD and my postdoc. And it was especially during my postdoc that I could really break down the mental barriers from my upbringing since I moved to a different country away from my parents and could finally have an active non-JW social life (before I moved, I luckily managed to fix my social anxiety despite the pressures from my parents). I was still kind of an active JW abroad (despite being marked), but eventually I had to be honest with myself and got a faith crisis one year in my postdoc which made me fade away from JW.

[@Jay-yp3oq]

Much love but I will watch the rest tomorrow. Goodnight

[@SimplyLore]

Ben, you're such a trooper. The whole cart right outside your office thing was so ridiculous. You were right to stand your ground.

[@benkopilow7079]

Thank you for your kind words. Much appreciated.

[@ma.7583]

The example he gives about the scientist asking for a quote retraction (which Watchtower refused to do) is from the 2015 January Awake! magazine for anyone interested in checking it out.

[@benkopilow7079]

Thanks for sharing the specific info. I hope people check out that saga.

[@dancingnature]

I think that was Lewonton and he’s a famous evolutionary biologist. He did sue them for slander and they removed his out of context quotes. I remember that because I’ve got a biology degree and a lot of biologists other life scientists , and geologists were thinking about suing creationist sources for taking their quotes out of context , or for misleading editing

[@ucanliv4ever]

That proves nothing

[@ramrod576]

​@@ucanliv4everit proves JWs aren't honest

[@dancingnature]

@ucanliv4ever, biologists don’t prove evolution by chatting with science illiterates . They prove it by looking at natural phenomena . Evolution is easy to observe . I actually evolved organisms as a sophomore in college before I got my bachelors degree. You and other creationists are just in denial about something you don’t understand aka wilful ignorance!

[@gardenia77]

Both of my brothers are JWs and they are 13 amd 14 years older than me, so I went to many meetings, conventions, assemblies, a memorial, etc. We were never raised JW, but one brother became a JW at 19, the other mid 30s. One of the many things that jumped out at me aling the way and had me wondering early in how my big brothers could believein this religion, was the way the Watchtower magazines would quote other academic and Scientific authorities. Firstly, it bothered me that the org condemned higher education, but then would regularly use the knowledge gained via higher education to validate their own beliefs. Secondly, the lack of citations. I've always been a bit of a nerd and so I would often try to hunt down the source. This was way back before exJW content became a thing on KZbin. I found so many examples where the quote was taken out of context or, even if the quote seemed in alignment with the Watchtower article. they would leave out other information from the source that blatantly disagreed with other JW beliefs. The arrest part is that I always knew it would do no good to bring these points up to my brothers, because I knew, from sitting in several meetings at the Kingdom Hall, that they were regularly told that anyone who asked too many questions, bring up opposing views, and didn't just take what a JW was saying as fact, was just being troublesome on purpose and had no good intention of wanting to know "the truth".

[@benkopilow7079]

Thank you for sharing those observations, appreciated.

[@gardenia77]

​@benkopilow7079 thank you for sharing. I am 47; my brothers have hit their 60s and i will always hope they will see and i will always also try to understand what they are experiencing. They are my only siblings.

[@samanthas2280]

Unfortunately, if an elder told me to go to his house until I calmed down, I'd be afraid that I would get accused of adultery or getting assaulted... It would have freaked me out.

[@geoffreybunting9837]

This is a brilliant conversation with Ben. His insights (especially two JWs living together and having two different belief systems; and him saying he has no spiritual need) are so refreshing to hear. I intend to order and read the two books he recommended. I hope Ben's wife wakes up soon from this horrible, petty, vindictive, and nasty religion which is filled with cant

[@benkopilow7079]

That you Geoffrey, hope you enjoy and find the books as invaluable as I did. @altwordly do you think we could get the Amazon links to the books in the description?

[@Jay-yp3oq]

My wife is still an active JW pioneer, and I woke up over 5 years ago, so I guess we have something in common

[@bmo5082]

Does she know you no longer believe it?

[@Jay-yp3oq]

@ yup

[@Jay-yp3oq]

I'm active in the community @fixing my faith on YT. I am a moderator

[@krism5575]

What made you wake up?

[@Jay-yp3oq]

@ 607/587

[@lanialania8387]

I’m sorry Ben you and your wife went through all this crap from these heartless men.

[@benkopilow7079]

Thanks for your kind words. It was hell, but we have no regrets, and we are so happy now.

[@owenmccallum6076]

Hope your break up from you wife was ok

[@obzenmeshuggah5912]

Interesting interview, thanks.

[@propertyspeaks2344]

Excellent interview that provided outstanding perspectives. Thank you !!

[@benkopilow7079]

Thank you for your lovely kind comment.

[@haan3549]

Such incredible men ❤ Fantastic discussion ❤

[@evesieminski4259]

OMG!! I never heard anybody put it that way, but I too, am not a spiritual person and dreaded every meeting field service and convention. It was complete torture. My husband told me once if you weren’t born into this shit, you would have never ever become a witness on your own.After we both left together, our marriage has never been stronger. Our conflict also always came from the religion. We are so happy to be free and living. Our best lives now finally. Like you we haven’t changed much at all except now we speak in much more colorful language, lol! enjoy your life!!!

[@benkopilow7079]

It's an interesting realisation to come to about yourself hey! We are so indoctrinated to just accept that idea as fact, and then feel guilty because we don't enjoy worship in the way others do. So glad to hear you have left that behind and are living a great life.

[@LauraOttawa]

I was hoping he'd say that in Australia some actual kangaroos invaded a courtroom and that's where the saying came from 😂😂

[@Fazzamania]

The people of the truth aren’t interested in the truth.

[@benkopilow7079]

Well said

[@Rupunzelsawake]

What a lot of sense Ben speaks!

[@benkopilow7079]

Thank you 🙏

[@calanm7880]

For those interested, “no true Scotsman” originally referred to not wearing underwear under the kilt. But as a Scotsman I’m glad we are remembered in identifying religion’s fallacies 😊🏴󠁧󠁢󠁳󠁣󠁴󠁿

[@clarencehoover6748]

11:20 The guest advances to his conclusion without considering that the Organization has a plethora of articles ready to go, then picks from their collection what best fits the events of the current times.

[@altworldly]

I literally say that in the video

[@RR-zk2vj]

I had a similar experience with a brother, assuming the slander spread (by my [now ex] wife) was truth. After a meeting, on my way out, I extended my hand in greeting, and he ignored it and puffs up his chest and bulges is eyes and looks at me like I was Satan and says something to the effect of how evil I am. Really scared me and broke my heart.

[@benkopilow7079]

Sorry to hear you've had a similar experience. Thanks for sharing.

[@fadetoexadam182]

Such a great interview. Thanks both of you.

[@benkopilow7079]

You are most welcome

[@fernandoeguia9997]

Great stuff, I remember watching his interview years ago and was impressed at how he handled his situation. Makes me wish I could go back and handle my exit much better

[@benkopilow7079]

Thanks for your kind words. I made a lot of mistakes along the way too - just ask my wife! I could have handled many things much better.

[@kristinorr4434]

When jw lost you 2 guys, they lost 2 very amazing men-and they didn’t even know it! That’s the whole point, they don’t know they’re losing their most important people!

[@benkopilow7079]

Very kind of you to say - thank you

[@Excultbaby]

This dude is eldermaxing so hard that it scratched an itch that I very rarely get to itch which I think was just the times I heard a talk given by a REALLY good elder speaker who didn'tcome off as fake and was a genuinely nice person, eaka one of the few times the meetings weren't totally mind-numbingly boring. It reminded me that a lot of the men I admired most growing up were elders. Like my dad. As far as I could tell, I completely believe that he became an elder to serve his congregation. He taught me to bake so I could help him bake cookies for little old ladies in our congregation. If someone, even a bookstudy, in his field service group was moving, he volunteered our family to help. I remember cold late autumn mornings spent volunteering cleaning up assembly hall grounds an hour away from our house. He was not at all proficient in ASL but he really did his damndest trying to learn a new *extremely emotionally expressive* language to "help" (because of course he believes spreading his religion is the best help he can give anyone) an under-served population in his community. Idk this was a tangent and I'm a little 🍃 high rn but I think I just wanted to thank you both for this interview because it reminded me of my dad who was an elder 😅

[@Excultbaby]

I know its a very long nothingburger of a comment but TLDR I love an interview that is emotionally moving even if its only moving because the guy reminds me of my dad 😂

[@altworldly]

I’m stone cold sober and I know exactly what you mean!! Good elders are just good people, and that always comes through.

[@benkopilow7079]

@@Excultbaby thats so nice. Thank you for your lovely comment

[@benkopilow7079]

ha ha thats an expression I've never heard before - eldermaxing. Sorry if thats a bit triggering.

[@Excultbaby]

@benkopilow7079 [blank]maxing is gen-z slang that I've managed to pick up 😅🤣 It wasn't triggering as much as it was nostalgic

[@BruceLeeR1-2103]

Emotions are contraband in the "Truth".

[@rowenameyer296]

Gov Body produces the Dunning-Kruger effect in the org

[@benkopilow7079]

Yes they are great examples of the Dunning-Kruger effect!

[@gisella1350]

So interesting. Thank you for sharing this information. Makes me happy that I left years ago. This Organization is so fake.

[@cpepservices1]

Fascinating inside view. Thank you altworldly for this well-paced, informative overview of writing committees.

[@bryn6000]

Never been a JW, heard about the Australian Royal Commission (ARC), and now approach them at their carts. By and large I find them to be unpleasant people, willing and ready to deceive the vulnerable whom the Watchtower teaches them to prey on. Do they tell potential recruits up front about the strict shunning policy applied to those who disassociate or who are "removed" from the congregation for whatever reason, or of the "no blood transfusion" which could cost them their life or that of their children? They know these things and have a responsibility to be truthful. So no, they are not just indoctrinated. I am always polite but they are rude. If you are ever minded to accept their offer of a "free bible study" which will be a study of Watchtower literature not the bible, do some serious research first. Start with their serious issue of handling child sexual abuse by searching for the ARC, Case Study 29, Jehovah's Witnesses. Run a mile from this high control cult.

[@benkopilow7079]

Thank you for your interesting observations.

[@der1222]

"Do they tell potential recruits up front about the strict shunning policy applied to those who disassociate or who are "removed" from the congregation for whatever reason, or of the "no blood transfusion" which could cost them their life or that of their children?" Of course not. That comes later, when the "fun wholesome stuff" has been instilled and you're hooked

[@ucanliv4ever]

Bryan, of course you are going to get the cold shoulder when you come off as a pariah.

[@ucanliv4ever]

der, what strict shunning policy? The August 2024 watchtower clarifies this issue. Although a culture such as you describe may have existed, it is not official policy but an organic growth by competitive ones. Have you read the August 2024 wt?

[@ucanliv4ever]

Blood transfusions are barbaric...get informed

[@NewSkiwi]

what got me thinking was when my exjw son pointed out that JWs answers for everything are 100% scripted. Then I remembered how I had been trained to overcome objections in the field, and realised he was spot on.

[@bahamabarb]

Such a pleasant man. Just a lovely decent human being.

[@mrgumby98]

Good on you Ben.

[@mrgumby98]

And I was so bored too!!!

[@alphaspearl9728]

Awesome interview, it's such a pity that jws would demonize anyone who doesn't agree with their worldview, even if that person was their close friend/family member. All I can say is it's their loss!

[@benkopilow7079]

It is indeed. Thanks for your comment.

[@andreashilken4346]

I told my dad i am think aboud suizide cause my disfellowship. His answer: Our current life is not important. Imoirtant is we reach the paradise.

[@vestland3877]

The average JW live in a parallel universe. Enjoy your life instead!

[@benkopilow7079]

I’m Sorry to hear that Andrea. I hope you’re getting some professional help to work through those feelings?

[@andreashilken4346]

@@benkopilow7079 Yes a psycologist helps. But if you shuned you lost from one day to the other any social contact.

[@illsoglass]

I grew up a Jehovah's witness and I never really believed it. I was a small child and I remember it not adding up to me. I'd be up for an interview if you ever want to hear my story.

[@nathandewart1144]

I just started falling asleep at meetings that's when I knew it wasn't for me

[@oilusionistaxd]

1:02:48 it was the same thing with "Eric Wilson" on the video "A Jehovah's Witnesses Elder on Trial for Apostasy"

[@morganrickards3811]

This is why they liked it when my fave character was Spock

[@benkopilow7079]

I love Spock too!

[@ramrod576]

I credit Spock with eventually waking up. Logic.

[@Karl-dd4om]

Spock, Hollywood nonsense!

[@rachelanthony179]

Totally agree with the point about how much in-depth knowledge ‘worldly’ bible scholars have. I heard one say about how in the bible fire is used to symbolise god’s presence eg.pentecost, burning bush. I’ve never heard a jw say anything like that😮. There were loads more. You’re not telling me that Stephen lett,knows more than a bible scholar/theologian with a phd!

[@benkopilow7079]

Amen to that. It's quite eye opining. One thing that shocked me is how many "worldy" Bible commentaries they have in the Bethel library that the writing dept uses. I'm pretty sure sure Watchtower has never had an original thought. Since the days of Russell they have just borrowed ideas from other scholars and created their now concoctions of theology and doctrine.

[@NIL0S]

The man landed on his feet. Glad for him and his.

[@owenmccallum6076]

😂

[@vestland3877]

@@owenmccallum6076what is funny?

[@justalittleblue9228]

Hey just wanted to say that I think you do a really good job with your thumbnails, they look great!

[@Perineon]

Here’s a good one. Watchtower was sued for quote mining Richard Dawkin’s book the selfish gene, and they put the out of context quote in the blue creation book.

[@Aiken47]

My mother in law, balked when I said JWs aren’t part of the great crowd no man was able to number - they take a census. She couldn’t explain who those righteous people are that have a form of the law but hadn’t been given the law, Rom 2:14 PS why was regional clothing standards different between a 40 deg C day in Darwin and Adelaide, ie shirts, shorts and ties back in the eighties? JWs are supposed to be no part of the world, thus standards should have been the same

[@kmm291]

Nice honest interview. I’m an ex.

[@loriswilliams7758]

Hello, were you able to find the link of their interview to post that was mentioned at the end?

[@altworldly]

In the description

[@loriswilliams7758]

Thank you ​@@altworldly

[@emmanuellartey3176]

It's dirty, nasty and brutal in JW than how it appears to the public

[@Mary-t2p6p]

I can’t imagine showing up to a judicial hearing if you’re leaving. Just leave their ‘truth’ their rules and their setup. Just go no contact. It would be like showing up to a meeting with an abuser after leaving. Why would you. Just ghost em.

[@benkopilow7079]

I concur. Of course some may have their own valid reasons for attending. Maybe to have there say or say goodbye in their own way, but generally I would recommend not attending.

[@kerrydwyer1879]

Also one elder I asked ,what do you do if you don't believe the talk you have been asked to do? He said" I pass them to the newer, young ones" I said ,so you are teaching them to lie ...he walked away. Typical

[@melaninandaura9713]

Is it just me or is the audio cutting out literally every minute or minute and a half?? I’ve been listening for a bit over 30 minutes now and I’m still experiencing that. Is it the video or is it me??

[@altworldly]

It’s a glitch with the “premiere.” If you exit and go back in, it’ll fix it. Had the same problem

[@elainebraindrain3174]

My question for Ben is would he please address the subliminals in the literature artwork? And now the videos?

[@benkopilow7079]

Sure, the idea of subliminals is mostly a conspiracy. They were tried in advertising many decades ago and their effects were pretty much debunked. I don't think there is anything deliberate to it in the Watchtower literature, it's more to do with how our brains perceive patterns and faces in random shapes. As a photographer who plays around with flipping images symmetrically I can demonstrate the trick quite easily. Send me an email and I'll show you samples of where I have created faces and all kinds of creatures by simply flipping images and stitching them. And I don;t do that intentionally, it's just a side effect of a different artistic effect I am creating with symmetry.

[@TheRealFirecracker16]

Lol!!! Thank you… !!!! You made me laugh today… at the end!!! I SO want a cat… and yet……I SO DON’T!! 😂🫨😅

[@fenostalgicmanrooster4898]

"It required a lot of 'PERSONAL THERAPY' for each of us" - 1:47:44 - It's interesting because I always ask myself if the worldly therapist, psychologist could help the relationship not to dismantle. I always wondered if a JW spouse would agree to do therapy in the first place.

[@benkopilow7079]

My limited data on this from my own circle of Exjw friends is that most PIMI JW spouses will not agree to therapy, possibly because the org has demonised it so much over the years. And those that do go often find they are not compatible anymore without the religion in common, which is OK too if that is the best outcome for both parties. I was lucky that my wife was wholeheartedly in favour of therapy, she was the one that organised it.

[@fenostalgicmanrooster4898]

@@benkopilow7079 I'm glad you replied. I would like to know if you really wrote the elders' manual and if you could make the elders comply with the rule if you used the APPEALS COMMITTEE. Here in Brazil, I have the impression that therapy (both individual and couples) is not sought out for 2 reasons: 1) They think it won't work. 2) The consultation prices are very high. 3) Although the organization does not outright prohibit it, the JWs see the therapist as a 'worldly person to whom you will have to confide things that will be seen as bad testimony.'

[@benkopilow7079]

@@fenostalgicmanrooster4898 I never had anything to do with the elders manual if that's what your asking? Only the Watchtower and Awake. Or are you asking what would I charge about it if I had the opportunity to write anecdotally new one? Yes, sadly therapy does cost a lot of money. We are lucky in Australia as we were able to actually subsidised therapy through our work. But I think the bigger issue for witnesses is they don't trust so-called "worldly" knowledge and expertise.

[@SleepyThrifter]

⁠@@benkopilow7079 I remember in the 80’s & 90’s, therapists were viewed with the same fear as apostates. Because they’ll trick ya! You think you’re in therapy to get help, but they’ll sow seeds of doubt and make you question the organization! I can’t imagine how many lives were ruined or lost because of that dangerous view of therapy. It’s interesting that my mom removed me from therapy around the time she was studying. At 4 years old, I guess I was mature enough to tackle an extremely dysfunctional home life on my own. 😑 Although the therapist I’ve been seeing since 2001 might disagree.

[@wantingtolearn2732]

What I would like to ask Ben is, even though he doesn't believe the Bible anymore, does he see now what the context of various Bible themes are, even if he believes they are not inspired, and how the Watchtower teaches contrary to the book they claim to study carefully?

[@altworldly]

His email is in the description if you want to reach out!

[@wantingtolearn2732]

@altworldly thanks for reply. I noticed he had replied to some comments on here, and thought there might be others with the same question.

[@benkopilow7079]

Thank you for your question - I have responded to your email. Hopefully we can have a discussion about this topic in person.

[@drensh5665]

So why is it that most of the articles are without proper citations and citation methods?

[@benkopilow7079]

Because they are religious propaganda and indoctrination.

[@stoobpendous]

I disagree about the misogyny in regard to Christina. It's about position. You, Jake, were an MSand a public speaker. Barbara Anderson was a WT researcher and was also promptly DF'd.

[@benkopilow7079]

Good point. Perhaps both factors come into play.

[@ucanliv4ever]

Barbara Andersen was and is full of cr@p

[@tim..t175]

Interesting interview and close to home …. Literally 😅. I live in Canberra myself the last 13 years but not associated well before that

[@benkopilow7079]

Hello fellow Canberran!

[@tim..t175]

@ Ben 👋

[@benkopilow7079]

@@tim..t175 Are you an Exjw? I wonder if our paths have crossed?

[@tim..t175]

@ yes i am an exjw , although only have attended the (Dickson)kingdom hall for memorial over 10 yrs ago now. Edit. Found your profile on FB and sent a DM

[@tjsnow1]

Court with kangaroo lawyers 😊

[@republiccooper]

What's a "spiritual need"? I'd like to have that defined please. Is it the same as a need for religion?

[@benkopilow7079]

Me too!

[@lizmoore3489]

I saw the brothers being harder on women than men

[@Trabantoslaw]

This discussion is a prime example of people who left the cult but still have cult member mentality. "You can't challenge consensus", "evolutionary biologists know better" are just arguments from authority, it's just different authority than the Governing Body. "You don't have academic skills" is just another version of "brothers from the Branch Office guided by the holy spirit know better". You first knew better because you were JW's, now you know better because you aren't JW's anymore. Mentality remains, just the vector has changed.

[@altworldly]

You literally think you know better too lmao

[@benkopilow7079]

Thank you for your comment, but you misapprehend why I place value on consensus by experts. It is not an argument from authority. It is because there is evidence and data that has been thoroughly examined in order to come to that consensus. It is the evidence behind the consensus that convinces me, not the authority of the individual people who support that consensus.

[@donnietobasco9791]

The "cult member mentality" overwashes many things. How it influences one's personal beliefs about religious, scientific or philosophical questions is likely the most "benign" type of transition because that's basically just an individual re-assessing belief constructs, and perhaps shifting themselves towards a more congruent world view. Retaining a "cult member mentality" only becomes toxic and unhealthy when it motivates a person to retain a morally superior and spiritually privileged opinion of themselves, along with a tendency to look down on other people. Even when core beliefs shift towards a new vector....it is an ex-cult member's lack of emotional growth or pause for true introspection which usually does them the most disservice and obviates itself to other people. Vacating a cult provides an opportunity for a person......not necessarily to become the next Einstein or Dawkins.....but moreso to just become a happy and productive member of civilised society without any of the narcissistic, cultic behaviours they once manifested.

[@Trabantoslaw]

​@@benkopilow7079 Yeah, that's exactly what the JW's say, and they always have quotations ("evidence") ready to substantiate their claims. You know it very well. If it wasn't about authority, you wouldn't even mention "consensus" and "academic skills" (whatever they are), as if it was some kind of intrinsic superiority (as in the "faithful and discreet slave"), because being accepted or not and who accepts it and who doesn't is completely irrelevant for something to be true or not. At some point the consensus was that Negroes are racially inferior, you know.

[@dancingnature]

I’ve got a biology degree and that is exactly how it works . The evidence behind the consensus is what is used not individuals’ star quality. For example, no biologist cares what Darwin thought, simply because in modern times we know so much more than he did!

[@serafin1352]

1:00 same here, they df’d me and everyone knows my wife is out and feels same as me but they just ignored her but threw me to the wolves.

[@benkopilow7079]

Wow.

[@rizaanjappie]

As a Muslim I can tell you Islam is far more academically grounded than the Jehovah Witness religion. Muslims are on KZbin debating all sorts of subjects and allowing criticism

[@benkopilow7079]

After listening to many debates from the top Muslim scholars and apologists I have to disagree with you sorry. They basically use no better arguments than Christian apologists, and misrepresent science in different and unique ways more related to the Quran, but still misrepresentations nonetheless.

[@der1222]

would be nice if Muslim countries would behave as you describe, but I won't hold my breath

[@rizaanjappie]

@@der1222 some are good, safe. Some are pathetically bad for many reasons.

[@rizaanjappie]

@@benkopilow7079 who have u listened to that comes to mind?

[@der1222]

@@rizaanjappie I don't know man, the blasphemy laws in Pakistan aren't really a secular thing are they?

[@ThatGirl0930]

Interesting. Did mountains survive a flood? Or other land structures? Could trees, shrubbery and other greenery survive? Interesting.

[@benkopilow7079]

Yeah, nah, I think just about every plant (perhaps there are a few exceptions) dies if you drown it in salt water for a year! For the story to make any sense Noah would have had to take a massive seed bank onto the ark too, not just the animals.

[@ThatGirl0930]

@ most likely exceptions. Mountains?

[@Mary-t2p6p]

Remember the Pharisees accused Jesus of lying . Saying he was Son of God.

[@Alittlelexus]

Yes.. elders will never take the time to get to know you, they will only quote scripture as they do not have any empathy, they are lacking in empathy.. good interview..

[@dancingnature]

Medical research and most medical breakthroughs of the past 120 years is based on it . , antibiotics, advanced surgical techniques, treatments for cancers and endocrine disorders like diabetes, pain medications, prosthetics, etc etc etc all due to either common ancestry or natural selection . The Nobel prize winning Sabin shot for polio , that was natural selection! The treatments for diabetes before the 1980s using insulin from other mammals , that’s common ancestry ! I only gave you 2 examples, there are hundreds !

[@vincentlaw6341]

I would like to know if non-witnesses author articles and I have my own query. I do not assume all writers are witnesses as I don't assume all board members are Jehovah's witnesses. I was trying to find out about a trust in Henrietta O'Reilly and when I investigated this. It is perplexing. One of the identities was a woman writer of the Awake 1980s, and they must have passed away. The same entity is a faith-based organisation, and the society benefits from the Trust, it is also listed in GuideStar as a faith-based organisation.

[@altworldly]

All the writers and board members are witnesses. It’s a completely insular group.

[@benkopilow7079]

No, I am not aware of any writers that are non JW. I don't think they would ever do that. The only thing they accept from the "world" is they pay for stock images and video footage.

[@albertafine9445]

It is a shame the org completely threw cold water on you. You went off and didn’t try to destroy anyones faith. Don’t understand how they get by with their disfellowship techniques. Knowing what I know now, getting an invitation to get disfellowshiped. I would agree to a meeting, hire a civil right attorney to come along. He would be a witness to the fact they wouldn’t let you have legal counsel (wouldn’t let him in). They disfellowship you, you sue for your no rights allowed and slander. Don’t know about legal things but secret meeting are legal without your lawyer?They live by the lawyer maybe they will die by the lawyer? Anyway it shows their objective is not to win their brother. I know when we were getting any spiritual excitement about the scriptures other then their rules were met with putting the fire out. Wish you didn’t lose your faith in Jehovah and his son, they are poorly represented mostly, but you need to keep seeking them without an organization between you. We stand individually at judgement day not with an organization. But good news no one is judged yet until that day.

[@ucanliv4ever]

You are daffy. In the first place , elders are never going to meet with your attorney. You don't even begin to understand the process. Your attorney is going to bleed you white

[@FishGAMER-R6Z]

My mental health has improved also

[@benkopilow7079]

So glad to hear that