Fosbery's Paradox, by Holland and Holland

[@andrewwaterman9240]

Fosbery's real paradox: "I've invented this self-cocking revolver. Do I call it a revolver or an automatic pistol? It's both! I'm so confused!"

[@datkhornedog899]

Automatic Revolver

[@daddyplankton5855]

Revmatic

[@ex4266]

triple action

[@jonwalker8608]

@@ex4266 😂

[@olenilsen4660]

Cockmatic...

[@lawrenceallen5521]

American classic English rifle groupie, here. I visited Holland & Holland's main showroom in London during a recent business trip there. A pilgrimage, of sorts. The folks at H&H very kind to allow me to ogle their example of a .600 @ 250,000 Pounds, among many others. My British colleagues were dumbfounded, of course. Leave it to an American to come to London and visit a gun shop with the few hours he had to "see the sights."

[@ookeekthelibrarian]

I did the same 25 years ago and spent a hole day there, I did spend some money in the shop, 2 books and a shooting jacket and at $2300.00 Aust it was money well spent. The wife at the time was not so sure about that, but I still have the books & jacket (not the wife) LOL

[@lawrenceallen5521]

​@@ookeekthelibrarian Lovely story. Thank you for sharing. I'm afraid my credit card limit didn't go high enough for what I wanted there. A lovely .600 caliber at 250,000 pounds. Clearly you made the smarter purchase.

[@anteshell]

@@ookeekthelibrarian What was you wife worth in today's money? I mean the books and jacket...

[@jeremiahsnyder9262]

my man! I would've been there beside you, looking at all the gorgeous, legendary firearms! just the thought is giving me goosebumps.

[@afterthought3341]

​@@ookeekthelibrarian Good one mate , I'm sure the ex wife didn't leave with a nitro express hitting her in the bum on the way out ?

[@UXB1000]

Killing two birds with one stone. "So, are you firing shot shells or slugs?" "Yes."

[@MichaelBerthelsen]

There you go. Perfect!👍😂

[@BSKustomz]

PDX-12 anyone?

[@philippefrater2000]

@Lassi Kinnunen What Bird? 😋

[@El_Grincho]

@@philippefrater2000 A pair of ducks obviously ...

[@EDSKaR]

Buck and ball shot? I want to see someone load buck and ball in this and do some thorough testing.

[@GreenHellTube]

Paradox rifling was a godsend for Russian civi gun owners. Those (and also Lancasters) are curently used as a loophole to get what is basicly a rifle with just a shotgun license, which is much easier to get.

[@StrangerOman]

Immediately thought about this as a Russian myself. As good a loophole it is, I would still prefer just to wait for the rifled barrels license.

[@noneyabusiness3253]

StrangerOman it takes 5 years for a full rifle license doesn’t it? How much longer do you have to wait for yours?

[@StrangerOman]

@@noneyabusiness3253 Yep, 5 years, but I don't own firearms myself. I was thinking about it, but I decided that at my current state I don't wanna own any firearms.

[@StrangerOman]

@@dahartman88 I actually enjoy this law, because you need some dedication to start working on your gun license. So the people, who don't have dedication to own firearms, not gonna own it.

[@ace-kz9id]

@@StrangerOman i really dont care for it because its fairly stupid when you think about it. all its does is force people to wait a super long time to own a rifle legally. im not hating on outside of the fact this laws do nothing but hurt people who follow the law. any time longer than a year and its silly. i know i could find someone i could steal a rifle in the time it takes me to get the paper work and gun legally i strongly dislike laws the put stupid wait times on stuff that all ready costs alot to get in the first place. like even a cheap hunting rifle is $200+ in america. which is more than most people can safely afford to drop on an impulse . i understand the reason for some wait but if its more than half a year its stupid

[@ThomasRonnberg]

would be interesting to see accuracy comparisons between paradox barrels, fully rifled and non rifled shotguns.

[@MichaelBerthelsen]

Would love a full comparison, but don't know how comfortable owners would be with firing shot down a full-bore barrel...

[@jameshealy4594]

Not in an actual H&H anyway. "I say George, I have these steel bearings here, what do you say we collect your guns and... George....?"

[@loddude5706]

This sounds like a job for Taofledermaus . . . (After all, it IS a sporting gun, so come on Rock Island, be really sporting & send it to Jeff for a proper test! : )

[@philippefrater2000]

@@loddude5706 Yep! With loads of SlowMo shots!

[@GreenHellTube]

You can look up Russian SKS and AK's with .336 TKM Paradox rifling and compare them to a normal 7,62x39 guns.

[@PavarottiAardvark]

2:09 "Non-Dangerous Herbivores" Ha, in Spencer Chapman's autobiography of his time in asia, he writes about hitting a water buffalo square between the eyes with a slug. It merely made the buffalo very angry. He had to hide up a tree.

[@thadoubleapyt223]

He should make an April Fools Video where he talks about a highly recognizable gun with a normal backstory

[@johnbull1986]

...it was a viciously sharp slice of mango wasn't it sir....

[@njones420]

I won’t repeat this. Put your underpants on your head and stick two pencils up your nose.

[@ZATennisFan]

Wibble, wibble

[@phoenixrising4573]

"A frickin tiger!" So sayeth gun jesus.

[@unowno123]

Makes a gun against tigers before ww2. He's way ahead of his time

[@jwdoom]

T-shirt! Take my money, Ian!!!!

[@unowno123]

So holland and holland? Is there a england and england company in the netherlands as well? XD

[@az12223]

Real funny

[@EDSKaR]

I'm going to include that in one of my stories. Mind if I spell it ye olde style "Angland and Angland"

[@Hirosjimma]

well we do have Anchor & Anchor lawyers

[@DJAvren]

Technically Holland does not mean the same as the Netherlands. Holland is only part of the Netherlands. So the Dutch based company would be called something like Middlesex and Middlesex. Although if you called it Cornwall and Cornwall, that sounds a lot nicer.

[@BusbyBiscuits]

DJAvren or Yorkshire and Yorkshire 😊

[@BSKustomz]

*battle music* "a Frickin' Tiger wants to fight..."

[@mordecaieagle4240]

Fosbery uses 12 gauge Paradox bullet. It‘s super effective!

[@nicholaspatton5590]

A Frickin Tiger uses Roar! Is is not very effective.

[@tskwared667]

I never had a thing for double barrels, but recently I've acquired an appreciation for their simplicity and overall sleekness. This one is gorgeous.

[@tyrellthiel2201]

I didn't until I got a few. Doubles are just so fun

[@bunkydoes8048]

Beretta Silverhawk is worth a look if you want one that costs way too much but looks so fine.

[@sarkybugger5009]

It's the _leg of gammon_ stock that makes it for me. The flowing lines...

[@chrism4008]

They are works of art

[@olenilsen4660]

I was brought up with a double barrel side by side. But I far prefer the O/U for shotguns. Mainly because of the grip. However, I still think the S/S are beatiful weapons, more so than the guns I prefer. I can´t even explain it, they just look better.

[@rochrich1223]

I thought the Fosbery paradox was how a high-jumper could clear the bar while his center of gravity would pass below the bar.

[@kayvon_is_likes]

Your attempt at humour flopped

[@mtrcycls]

Owl @ 4:14

[@ianmacfarlane1241]

😂 I heard that toooooo.

[@UXB1000]

Ah, can never unhear it now. 😂

[@StrangerOman]

It's a quite common sound around table top view :/ Just a part of the gun sliding on the piece of cloth.

[@Darmoth85]

Now that is what I'd call a handsome weapon.

[@coolhand1983]

I go on my lunchbreak pretty much the same time every day (12pm GMT) and it really cheers me up seeing a brand new video when I sit down to chill out with a nice sandwich and a cup of tea 😁😁😁😁😁 And yes, I really do watch your channel every lunch break! Hoping you stick to the scheduling!

[@RockIslandAuctionCompany]

"A paradox, a paradox, a most ingenious paradox..."

[@njones420]

Ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha

[@ADRay1999]

Anything made by Holland & Holland is worth quite a pretty penny But it really depends on the gun’s uniqueness and the auction you go to

[@zodsmuffin2369]

this one for a Holland & Holland is being sold very low 7000 to 11000 isn't bad it wouldn't shock me if Holland & Holland buy it to sell in there shop I know the last Holland & Holland I shot was a high 6 figure gun but so so nice

[@jameshealy4594]

I'm not a big fan of the NRA but that museum was simply amazing for anyone really interested in firearms, you will need a dedicated day at the very least. I mostly love American museums, spent almost my entire eight days in Washington in the Smithsonian (various).

They are one of the best.

[@jimmydesouza4375]

I'm actually curious what the collectors niche for this is, if you're aware. I mean it's not unique, it's not an experimental gun, this specific gun doesnt have any kind of attachment to a notable person, it's a high quality gun yes but I assume not incredibly rare since the company still exists making basically the same thing. Yet at the same time if you wanted a really pricy sporting shotgun and had the money for it you'd just go straight to H&H yourself to get it made perfect. What kind of person buys this gun I wonder.

[@ADRay1999]

Jimmy De'Souza: I think the type of collectors that will collect anything that any gun company makes, kinda like today with the Winchester rifles, collectors want to get their hands on every model that came out

[@charlesinglin]

Thanks for posting this. I recently read "Kenya Diary" by Col. Richard Meinertzhagen, who was an officer in the King's African Rifles before WWI and an avid hunter. His main guns were a .256 Mannlicher and a Paradox double.

[@Bou_Diran]

Holland n holland really seems to make georgeous sporting arms. I wish Ian was able to dig a little deeper with it and open the break to show down the barrel so we could see the shift from smoothbore to "choke" though i understand why he may not have,(

[@jordanwicinski2141]

The fosbery's taste like fosbery's

[@simonmunden5046]

I got it

[@misterdaz1018]

Go!

[@me3333]

LOL I said exactly that when he first said fosbery. I'm glad I'm not the only one :)

[@Psiberzerker]

Kreighoff had their own solution to the same basic problem: Hunting where you don't know what you're going to be shooting at. So, they make combination guns (In fact, their proprietary Combi-cocking device is pretty mechanically unique.) For instance, in 20 gauge, and .375 H&H Belted Magnum. The nice thing about these is you don't have to reload, though with the Paradox guns, you could load one with ball, the other with shot.

[@TheMudbrooker]

Don't forget the Savage Model 24. I've owned a couple of them over the years and the .22 LR over a 20 ga. is great for small game. They came in .410, 20 and 12 ga. under a rifle barrel that came in calibers from .22 LR up to, I think, 30-30 Win.

[@Psiberzerker]

@@TheMudbrooker I didn't, I had one myself. However, comparing a Savage to a Holland and Holland was a little too much of a stretch for me. At least Kreighoff can claim to be in the same league of European Bespoke Craftsmanship. I would as soon compare my Inglis High Power to the Luger Carbine, which I had posters of on my wall as a kid. They both do the same job, but some are mass produced, the others works of art.

[@pearlysplayhouse7761]

One my dad got after his dad passed has a 222 remington on top and I think 20 gauge on the bottom

[@Psiberzerker]

I'm a big fan of the .22 Hornet, in guns like this. With another barrel for something big, my favorite was .22Hornet/.410/.45 Colt. It doesn't matter what I want to shoot, one of those 3 can be loaded to kill it. (The Hornet is reloadable, one of my main problem wit Rimfire rounds.)

[@moosemaimer]

"...a frickin' tiger." Never get out of the boat.

[@Statusinator]

Unless you're gonna go all the way...

[@matthayward7889]

moosemaimer Absolutely goddamn right.

[@WitchyWagonReal]

I don’t fkn need it I don’t want it I didn’t get out of the 8th grade for this shit man

[@Pyre001]

Did they have a Holland per barrel?

[@noremorsewoodworking2258]

Now you are being a bit dutch, Sir.....

[@AsDeadAsDillinger]

@@noremorsewoodworking2258 _Wouldn't that be 'double-dutch' ?_

[@Trogdor390]

"THIS. GUN. IS. FALSE. don'tthinkaboutitdon'tthinkaboutitdon'tthinkaboutit"

[@issackliener3065]

IunderstoodThisReference.jpeg

[@Maddbox11235]

Umm... True. I'll go true. Yeah (that was easy). I'll be honest, I might have heard that one before then, sorry.

[@moosemaimer]

IN CASE OF OUT OF BATTERY DISCHARGE LOOK DIRECTLY AT OUT OF BATTERY DISCHARGE

[@EDSKaR]

Please assume the firing range submission position.

[@chrisvalentine3017]

Well I suppose my 12 Bore Paradox does not exist and that Holland & Holland (who still make them) are just fooling every one. Just go back to being Felix Cat Food.

[@robert8984]

"If you want to own this ..." Yes, i want to own a H&H shotgun. I really want. But paying for that ;/

[@ianmacfarlane1241]

Deeeep pockets, I'm guessing.

[@Crimsonedge1]

@@Outland9000 That estimate will end up being out by a significant amount no doubt. To talk of the manufacturer and the history of the gun, I can foresee a battle between online bidders. Theres quite a few H&H guns that cost the wrong side of 100k brand new and they only make about 80 guns a year. You're looking at about 30 months for a new delivery. The gun right there in the video is old and has history though... Deep pockets? LIke Russian bore holes mate... You could sell a few organs and still not have the cash.

[@TJ11692]

The fosberries taste like fosberries

[@davidcritchley8424]

Isn’t Fosbery solving an issue already solved by ‘Cape guns’ or drilling combination shotguns? - I suppose the weight is less but I think just adding a rifled 303 barrel slung underneath would be more effective.

[@barry7608]

Thanks couldn’t agree more with your comments. But it was a nice bit of kit because of its quality and uniqueness, I’ll have one 😎

[@georgesheffield1580]

Westley Richards also produced a "shot & ball" rifled choke .

[@repletereplete8002]

2:10 or like 50 wolverines... Gosh!

[@mixererunio1757]

Pay 15 $ for Paradox Joke DLC

[@tlmoscow]

This weapon is quite clever, but a standard shotgun would really work better if you wanted to shoot a pair of ducks.

[@mixererunio1757]

@@lenchewbacca from all Paradox DLCs only Death or Dishonor was bad and not worth money

[@EDSKaR]

Auto subtitles start with "I guess thanks for tuning in" very apathetic.

[@googiegress]

"You guys sure are watching. Hope you have a day"

[@notkimjongun2283]

That is a gentleman’s weapon right there. I can almost hear the sipping of twenty year old scotch and the swapping of exotic hunting stories just by looking at this puppy

[@Vincerama]

I thought it was going to be "So the left barrel is rifled, and the right one is not". I was surprised at the actual solution.

[@scottd9448]

I used to live three miles from their shooting grounds. Very nice place! They now have a fully interactive (live fire, your rifle or theirs) indoor projection system for shooting boar, deer & large African game. For sharpening your skills or full instruction. You don't really want to wing a boar or something bigger & more dangerous. Reasonable pricing too. I'm going to book a few hours on my next trip back to the UK.

[@giterdone246]

I think it's best just having one barrel fully rifled and one smoothbore barrel you can put chokes on if desired. Still a cool idea though.

[@michaeldelucci4379]

That type of weapon was used by the Mountain Men. They use to load one barrel with buck shot and the second one with a ball.

[@SamSpade903]

I went down a rabbit hole last year on British custom gun makers. The Brits do an incredible job incentivizing smaller makers to start up. There are no less than 50 in country that, for the most part, make beautiful firearms. I’m a sucker for bolt-action rifles, a la James Purdy. Incredible

[@jansenart0]

No, no no. No. It's the "parrot-ox" shotgun. One barrel for parrots, one for oxen.

[@draconus15]

I recently got an old savage 24 for kinda the same reason. I use it to walk the fence and it's a great one to have where I can do abt 99%of what may need to be done and rugged enough I don't have to wory abt it to much

[@polomat14]

So, a double barreled gun that shoots both shot and slugs. Why not just one rifled one smooth?

[@DL24StaS]

It's interesting that you mention Paradox chokes as something obscure and almost completely forgotten. In fact, in Russia, where obtaining a smoothbore gun is (relatively) simple, but getting your hands on anything with a rifled barrel is a full fledged pain in the butt, Paradox rifled choke is still very much alive and kicking (a smoothbore gun with a rifled choke is not considered rifled). Most people with a Saiga have a screw-on Paradox choke for shooting slugs, and it is almost a mandatory piece of equipment for the .410 caliber Saiga, which is pretty useless as a shotgun. Some guns are only sold in this configuration, e.g. the VPO-208 (smooth-bore SKS in .366 Lancaster / 9.6x53 mm TKM with a fixed 14 cm long Paradox choke).

[@Robert-qm7yi]

While I get the idea, two shells of shot or slugs. Why not have one barrel rifled and the other smooth? That way you have a good shotgun and rifle, just with one shot each

[@erikm12]

"Cor blimey, Major! A frickin' tiger!"

[@kenhelmers2603]

Nice looking gun, as are most H&H products. Thanks Ian

[@anteshell]

That is hell of a beautiful shotgun.

[@nwolinsP]

A friend of the family went back to his inherited 16 gauge double barrel from a pricey 12 gauge auto-loader to hunt pheasants. He said after 5 years of never firing a third shot from the auto-loader he went back to the double barrel.

[@shanerogers24]

That poor poor gun, bubba's been at the screws, the head of the stock is oil soaked to the point of splitting. I hope the new owner sends it off for a nice spell with someone who actually knows what they are about :(

[@CaptainLuckyLuke]

His V.C was auctioned off for $45000 in 1997. I wonder if that amount would get you even one of his paradox guns. His ingenuity is worth more than his heroism. I wonder how he would feel about that.

[@JS-ob4oh]

Wouldn't it had made more sense to have one barrel that is dedicated for a rifle ammo and the other for a shotgun shell?

[@kevinoliver3083]

You mean a Cape Gun? They were popular in Southern Africe (c.1890-1940). But they were less flexible as, depending on your target, you might only have one useable barrel. Whereas with a Paradox you had the option of loading both barrels with the same ammunition. Allowing you a quicker follow up shot.

[@MrPh30]

Frithjof Nansen had a Paradox, grouse, hare, fox , moose.deer, polar game also and lot more of game and areas he brpught it too. Frantz Rosenberg ,the famous gunwriter, gunbug, ShooterKing, and Olympicist he had a couple also, one is a Westley Richards 28 bore Fauneta which is around today .

[@sum-tingwong9936]

Im not sure the auto-safety thing is always a lawyer deal. I have an inherited stevens model 335 side by side 12ga hammerless that engages the safety on action break and it was made in the 1920s

[@roeng1368]

Some of the lesser grade H&H's were made by Webley and Scott in Birmingham. I wonder what the proofmarks on the gun indicate ?

[@luismoreira792]

Nice video. I'm curious although, it was said that there was not much difference between the pattern of the dispersion of the pellets in the 'semi-rifled' barrels compared to a smooth bore barrel, that would be 10%, 20%?

[@xray86delta]

The Paradox is the original "Elephant Gun", I believe. These types were often depicted in the old jungle movies. 😉

[@bongobrandy6297]

Bugs Bunny once described a Paradox as a set of twin docks in parallel extending from the shore. This drove Yosemite Sam and Elmer Fudd and Daffy Duck to total distraction.

[@dbmail545]

Now I wonder if any of the replaceable choke tubes for modern shotguns use the Fosbery type of rifling?

[@peterbu27]

My grandfather had one of these in 8-bore. Wonderful gun, but massive recoil with the 1,280 cast solid bullet!

[@georgesheffield1580]

Ian ,you should check out the "locks" on some of the British guns ,also the fitting to the buyer , much more involved than just the length of the stock .

[@Mythicalmage]

Apparently this was quite a common problem among Victorian Enlgish officers as there's also the Lancaster's Patent guns, which use oblong ovular rifling to manage both shot and conventional rounds. Scholagladatioria has a great video on one here: kzbin.info/www/bejne/i6rWn3d_et5ledU and I'd love to see you get your hands on one and fill in some of the historical gaps.

[@socialex]

Pretty cool ian, this is one of my favorite channels and my great great grandpa designed this gun, most of his descendants ended up in kelowna British Columbia.

[@jimmieboling2697]

My favorite side by side was the bolt action double rifle. That is a cool gun. 8 rounds to drop what ever you need to.

[@DD-uv6rp]

Hi Ian. Did the British use round ball slugs in their classic shotgun loads?

[@CooperHudgins]

A FRICKIN TIGER

[@brubur7777]

This almost reminds me of an early M30 Luftwaffe drilling

[@РикСанчес-я6з]

It's actually was a very popular way in Russia to get "rifle" without waiting for rifle permits. Until recently those been considered smoothbore and easily obtainable, even special calibers were "invented", like .366TKM and AK variants for that. That's how an old invention finds it's popularity through the legal loopholes.

[@mrgrinch14]

I know you don't do shotguns often but man do I love it when you do. If you ever come across a Beretta UGB (Ultimate Gun Beretta) I would LOVE to see a video on one!

[@jr5469]

Wacka wacka lol

[@SebastianLarsen]

I was raised in a home with a Holland & Holland. I hope one day to raise my kids in one, too.

[@RMK1558]

Could you dona review on the spanish paradox side by side. Julian Arana "LA SORDA" i recently aquired one and am struggling to find information, ammunition that i can use and potential value.

[@andrewince8824]

1906, The Punjab. The officer surveys the scene. Perhaps he'll take a deer today, oh but the birds are so tempting. Without warning the bushes part. "Dear god sir!" the officer cries "A frickin' tiger"

[@kangarooralph5621]

Good video! Holi sheet, I was first to comment.

[@dave-ql2ri]

The video wasn’t even 1 minute old when you said this.

[@ThumpertTheFascistCottontail]

Vanilla He wasn't wrong though.

[@dave-ql2ri]

Thumpert the Fascist Cotton-tail True that

[@kangarooralph5621]

It's Ian, the video is automatically good folks.

[@peetsnort]

I have a soft spot for Holland and Holland I shot my first warthog with a Holland and Holland magnum. They make exceedingly good guns But overpriced in this day of cnc machinery with better tolerances

[@josephtutolo3304]

Congratulations another excellent video not about black guns. Shotguns are more complicated than you realize. But really, if a Holland and Holland doesn't excite you its probably not your thing.

[@EnLaMatrix1]

**Dirty Harry in the trenches** "Did I load slugs or buck shot? Will I explode your head or sweep the room? There is only one question you should be asking yourself: 'Do I feel lucky?' Well do ya punks?"

[@abdulrehmanchoudhari4645]

I have a Westley Richards super magnum explorer 12 bore paradox gun gifted to my father by Hukum Maharaj 💞

[@ontu2538]

So this is first rifled choke ever used?

[@danebrewer10]

But how accurate was it in use? Be interesting to see some tests with a modern slug and/or smooth ball projectile....

[@danebrewer10]

@Rhinestone Hurricane well, black powder is still available, there'd be nothing stopping you finding the original load data and shooting a reduced load and work from there

[@willzibub]

Ian said frick. UNSUBSCRIBED. I did not come here for this kind of smut.

[@joelgrimes7591]

I always wondered where the term paradox choke came from.

[@calamusgladiofortior2814]

Perfect for dealing with wascally wabbits, at any wange.

[@konstantin.v]

4:03 Lawyer-influenced designs :D

[@WalterBurton]

What a beautiful piece of craftsmanship.

[@Nightkrowler]

I don't know if it's the first time - it's the first time I've noticed, anyway - but did Ian just kinda swear at 2:11?

[@georgegonzalez-rivas3787]

It saddens me that you prefer machine-stamped, mass-produced rifles to fine examples of the gunsmith's art. There are some choices that are just hard to reconcile (in others).

[@nicolasr.7722]

HE SAID FRICK! NOT FAMILY FRIENDLY!

[@leebennett4117]

Feck that's Rude!!!

[@stevenotten2464]

As a follower of Mark Novak I couldn’t help but wince when I saw the nicked screw on the sideplate…

[@johnhmstr]

A Beautiful piece of history.

[@nindger4270]

Oh screw the internet and having all the information in the world at your finger tips at all times. I sincerely didn't want to know that Holland & Holland is a subsidiary of Chanel today. o_O

[@nikoligogle3153]

Yeah those British officers pretty much perished the entire Tiger population of the Indian Subcontinent.

[@rolex517]

If it wasn’t an antique it would be a class 5 destructive device. Stupid ATF.

[@nachoakajrod]

I like the combo break barrels. Like 12 gauge/.30-06

[@georgesheffield1580]

Why is the pic of the muzzle of the paradox turned sideways like an over and under with the front side on the side of the barrels.

[@dankirstenkristensen4510]

Hi I got a P.Poulsen hammer-gun with straight rifling in on barrel, is that a paredox?

[@pamtnman1515]

The Charles Lancaster oval bore also served simultaneously as shotgun and accurate rifle

[@TheRevoltingMan]

Why wouldn't you just have one smooth barrel and one rifled barrel?

[@outis7080]

Why do old firearms have such incredibly high angled grips?

[@Karle94]

Sights mounted low on the weapon means more angle to the stock to rise them higher up for effective aiming. The result is more muzzle climb, but with manual repeaters and single shots, that's not a big deal.

[@jameshealy4594]

You mean shallow? As in, no pistol grips? My understanding is it's significantly easier and stronger to make a wooden stock without a pistol grip than with one. C&Rsenal have discussed this a bit, can't remember which particular episodes sorry.

[@nigelmchugh5541]

Its easier to change your grip when moving back to the second trigger. With single trigger guns the pistol grip, and semi pistol grip, became much more common.

[@skepticalbadger]

@@nigelmchugh5541 Not on shotguns and double rifles they didn't.

[@anthonyburke5656]

I wonder if the Colonel had a High Jumper in his descendants?