Frauds, Fetishes, and Frameworks in Today's Trans Movement, with Dr. Az Hakeem | Ep 193

[@izza_ISFP]

“We were paralyzed by the idea that we could be intolerant, and as a result, we tolerated the intolerable.”

[@janeawdry8182]

The origin of this is Karl Popper’s Paradox of Tolerance.

[@izza_ISFP]

@@janeawdry8182 Thank you.

[@janeawdry8182]

Dr Az Hakeem is SO clear about this & understands how the male sexual urge is what leads the whole ‘trans’ movement. He should be all over the media. Absolutely brilliant..

[@Toastie19]

It’s interesting how I am also autistic and gender nonconforming myself, a few years ago I played around with the idea that I might be non-binary. I somehow made it through to the other side. I think for me noticing all the inconsistencies in trans ideology helped a lot.

[@neepers22]

I'm autistic and gender non-conforming, and I went the other way. Rigidly holding on to the definitions of male and female as sex-based. I wonder if it's how it's introduced to you. I'm Gen X and there were many examples of gender non-conformity that didn't disrupt the male/female idea. Perhaps if I was born 20 years later, I'd be a non-binary they/them.

[@Toastie19]

@ for years I thought the argument was “gender is social and sex is biological, trans people are changing their gender socially not their sex” that made sense to me. Then I noticed more and more that TRA’s would constantly conflate the terms sex and gender, that always bothered me. One day I heard the argument “if they’re merely changing their gender socially then why take HRT/surgeries to change their secondary sex characteristics?” That stumped me and I felt really stupid for never realising that sooner. The terms AFAB/AMAB always bothered me too because again, I thought we were talking about gender not sex. I finally listened to what gender critical people were actually saying realised they were speaking more rationally than the TRA’s.

[@Toastie19]

@@neepers22 I think it is a generational thing. I’m a younger millennial and grew up with a lot of gay friends. I also made friends to a trans person online as a teenager (I was 17 or so and they were 19) I was brought up as a teenager thinking it was very similar to gay rights issues.

[@Toastie19]

Now I’m thinking about it, I weirdly remember the first time I ever heard of “sex change operations” as a younger child. It was a joke on some sitcom I watched at probably too young of an age. I remember thinking “how would that even work? That doesn’t make sense” having a basic understanding of sex differences. Funny how 8 year old me had more sense about this than I did at an older age lol.

[@kateamanak]

@@Toastie19 If children and dogs don't understand it, that's how you know it's made up.

[@MrLetmein2011]

This channel really does amazing work, one of the very few places where the truth is spoken. I’m a detansitioner who narrowly avoided gender reassignment when I was much younger and very mixed up .

[@AndreAngelantoni]

good to hear.

[@justmy2cents652]

The big question is HOW did this compilation of (mainly) fetishism and mental health issues made it into the mainstream as "the true authentic self" and how can we get it out of it?

[@leahtv7778]

Liberal feminism allowed it. Women weren't mature enough to say "You can't be in this group" about transes; namely TIMs. Then it was too late.

[@John-tr5hn]

The how is actually quite simple. The APA regrets the fact that homosexuality was considered a mental illness in previous versions of the DSM. Because of that, and because the "T" has been so expertly grafted onto the LGB, they consider trans the new gay. Because it used to be a tiny tiny tiny tiny tiny minority of people who identified as trans, they really didn't think it would be a big deal to just say they're fine, because whom does it affect? Well, once it became the new gay among teenagers, those numbers started to jump, but the "adults in the room" (the endocrine doctors, the pediatricians, the psychologists) had already said it was fine, so they couldn't look bad by changing their directives, so they just stuck with their guns. It's actually quite similar to how an entire generations of now young teenagers have potentially deadly food allergies simply because pediatricians told parents in the 2000s not to give their children nuts until they were at least 3 or 4. They've since changed the advice, but those poor kids are suffering for it.

[@justmy2cents652]

@@John-tr5hn Actual transsexuals where a tinytiny minority, men who are into crossdressing not so much - but most kept it private. Now they're "stunning and brave" and can harass women in their spaces and get off scot-free. I have to look into the the nut allergy stats, thanks!

[@GreyMatterShades]

@@John-tr5hn You're spot on about the regrets of the APA, and I think those regrets go beyond just that organization and affect individuals as well. People pushing modern gender/trans ideology even weaponize this point to scare people into conforming with their ideas. After all, nobody wants to be on "the wrong side of history." I think there are other aspects at play as well. Post-modernist philosophy has spilled out from certain university departments to infect a lot of jobs including teaching, and it's definitely boosting these signals. It talks a lot about oppressor/oppressed and power dynamics, condemning people in oppressor groups (whether or not they've actually done any oppressing) and making it a virtue to be of an oppressed group. This is one of the reasons why kids who identify as trans/non-binary in schools are applauded and celebrated by teachers in schools (with other students encouraged to treat them similarly), which just makes this opt-in category more enticing for people who are struggling to fit in or figure themselves out.

[@StormBringer5]

First there needs to be a definitive study proving the existence of ROGD. Once we move from theory to fact, we now have two etiologies for gender dysphoria-showing us it’s not all one thing and giving us room to cast doubt on the entire concept of true trans.

[@GordieGii]

Great! I have gotten so much grief over saying that trans is more than one thing. It's a relief hearing an expert say the same thing.

[@Toastie19]

Some. People want to oversimplify it but it’s SO much more complicated than “all TIM’s have AGP”

[@Lacey13-i3b]

You just have to look at porn categories

[@Toastie19]

@@Lacey13-i3b that doesn’t mean *all* TIM’s are doing it for fetishistic or AGP reasons. It’s hard to say exactly what percentage are but some are just extremely flamboyant gay men or grew up with extremely rigid gender roles/stereotypes. Some are also actually asexual.

[@pizzaiq]

There's no such thing as trans. Each of them has already been described and diagnosed with known existing conditions. They're using trans to avoid having to face reality and they want a cookie for it.

[@Lacey13-i3b]

@@Toastie19 Again, it is all in the porn categories, and TIMs too. I think these are closer to sexual orientations, not identities.

[@heidilee658]

Many professionals tasked with "helping" society through mental and medical situations have revealed what monsters they can be for a buck.

[@robws007]

Fascinating interview… I couldn’t help asking myself HOW did Dr Az get away with being so frank in the climate of the last decade or so without getting his license revoked or “cancelled” in some way? If everyone working with the trans community were this practical and honest, the activists wouldn’t have gained the ground that they have in the medical & governmental establishments!

[@janrivers9741]

They tried and it was an obvious beat-up. They made fools of themselves.

[@bethscaer2974]

Maybe his sense of humor protected him. If you can make people laugh about something foolish it can help expose the truth of that foolishness.

[@robws007]

@@bethscaer2974 agreed... but it just seems fishy: all these people supposedly getting "cancelled", and I don't doubt that many actually are. Yet Dr Az seems to just cantankerously skewer all the gender woo woo without any consequences to his career? It's refreshing, but also confusing... why does he get a free pass and JK Rowling get regular death threats?

[@HekateSelini]

also - he's a man. I a female therapist had said the same things, she would've been crucified by the TRA

[@kayemm1973]

Being male helps.

[@jenniferatkins528]

I love his take on how social media replaced the music that had influenced previous generations. GenX here. MUSIC~

[@se232rw]

Oh how lucky we were!

[@lovelover4408]

Wow, I gotta say, I took a break from watching this podcast because it was hard to hear Stella and Sasha still believing in “true trans”… can’t tell you what a relief it is to be watching again and hearing you two say that phrase! And for your guest to say there’s no such thing as trans! I know everyone is on a journey of understanding, fighting against a world of propaganda and bad ideas, but it’s so nice to hear such conviction from you two as you’ve spent more time with the topic. I’m grateful to be able to see your ideas grow over time 💓

[@4651adri]

Same. I'm considering watching the video now.

[@FruityHachi]

nobody can change their biology so there's no such thing as "true T" incongruence with perceived gender roles is not something wrong with a person that they needs to change their body in order to fit the perceived gender roles

[@christopherrogers9243]

One of the best dialogues in 2024, Dr Hakeem has done a good job in condensing 20 years experience for viewers on a subject matter that can be a minefield to transverse. Well done.

[@agatamars]

This episode is FANTASTIC!

[@MixedTake]

What a fantastic chat. And he's a fellow LGB Alliance member! I'll be buying his book immediately.

[@Nina_Olivia]

Bloody fantastic video! It makes a lot of sense what this doctor says about the evolution of goth to trans. Really interesting perspective!

[@janinegriffiths8281]

Great conversation. Dr Hakeem is always engaging and full of thoughtful observations that blow ones mind. Thank you!

[@DrFletchington]

I'm such a fan of Dr Hakeem's. He's as clear and experienced on this topic, as is possible. I hope there's an audiobook of DeTrans!

[@TomTheSimmer]

I'm autistic, and I believe a large part of this is actually far simpler. Most people know very little about autism... I was diagnosed 2 years ago and had to go research it to discover that most information is actually just written by other autistic people rather than psychiatrists or psychologists (because there are so few resources that autistic people just filled that space themselves). Doctors will throw a whole list of books, leaflets and websites at you for things like anxiety/depression, but for autism you basically get nothing. This makes the autistic experience feel quite helpless and unseen. Take that feeling, add the autistic struggle with sense of self, the pressure we feel to act 'normal', then splash on the current obsession with social labels from society... tada, suddenly you have 2 types of autistic people; the ones who gave up on identity because its just not worth the stress of trying to figure out who you are all day, and the ones who obsess over it. The latter is the first instance of autism actually being seriously acknowledged in discussion, providing a positive feedback loop.

[@chansonpapillon]

I enjoyed reading your comment, and you raise some very thought-provoking issues. On your point about it being the first instance of autism being seriously acknowledged - wow yes, that makes so much sense. As a late-diagnosed ADHD person, I do find it fascinating how with ADHD you're given medication as 'the cure' (obviously not by the literal definition of cure), but with autism you're left to your own devices. I have not done statistical research into this, but I feel that there are far more 'official' resources available to parents of children with ADHD and/or autism. And I find it quite disheartening how so much of it is written by neurotypical people who exhibit a superficial understanding of the conditions. It also frustrates me how advice given by neurotypical people often focuses on masking and coping strategies. For example the classic ADHD advice of 'have you thought about writing a list!'. And when you question the validity of these strategies, it is often disregarded as the adhd person exhibiting symptoms of demand avoidance. My opinions on this are not set in stone however, and I am always open to debate and changing my viewpoint. Somewhat unrelated, but I feel compelled to share the following point. I feel very lucky that my ADHD consultant has ADHD herself. When discussing issues in the workplace, she said something that really stood out to me. I can't quote the exact words so need to paraphrase. That they [neurotypical people] will never actually get it. Just nod along and say 'yes yes yes', then spend as little time as possible to tick off whatever [often nonsensical] tasks they have in their head, then use the rest of the time to do your own thing.

[@stacyyoust]

Hahaha ha i like that 😅​@@chansonpapillon

[@saje239]

I had to pause the video when he said, “She’s queering her own queer theory!” I was laughing too hard to hear what he said after

[@AnnyOKtoday]

It is so good in hearing a man as a man describing male sexuality to women. As women, we don’t have that understanding just as a man can’t truly understand a women’s sexuality. Love listening to this wonderful man.

[@Lierre_Keith]

Many AGPs are excited by women's clothes. The four types: Transvestic autogynephilia: arousal to the act or fantasy of wearing typically feminine clothing Behavioral autogynephilia: arousal to the act or fantasy of doing something regarded as feminine Physiologic autogynephilia: arousal to fantasies of body functions specific to people regarded as female Anatomic autogynephilia: arousal to the fantasy of having a normative woman's body, or parts of one

[@BoomerTelly]

He forgot the kind of AGP who is into the biological functions of female. Menstruation. Breastfeeding etc.

[@nicollegreenheart6682]

Really good interview. I hope parents, school admin and affirming doctors and therapists start to wake up from the madness of transgender ideology.

[@elizabethdann7196]

And what happens when you dangle a high status reward in front of someone with an over valued idea? It’s not rocket science. Love Dr Az btw!

[@richardasmus9426]

When a person claims they can't help their desire to dress and act like the opposite sex, that is compulsive behavior, like a person saying they can't stop drinking or gambling. They could arrest the desire at Sex Addicts Anonymous, but they'd have to WANT to stop dressing and acting like the opposite sex because of all the problems it causes.

[@author4you443]

Best episode ever from Stella & Sasha with a super guest. I learnt so much from listening to Az Hakeem, so knowledgeable & insightful. Thanks so much to all three of you 🙏

[@gracechapel2464]

What category would "Admiral" Rachel, formerly Richard, Levine fit into? He is the US Assistant Secretary for Health. This man is listed as an American pediatrician, a professor of pediatrics and psychiatry. USA Today, a major American newspaper, named HIM as one of their Women of the year 2022. HE is regarded as the "first-ever" female four-star admiral in the US Public Health Service Commissioned Corps. In America's National Women's History Museum it says "Levine went to the all-boys prep school... where she played football and hockey..." Thank you for all you do.

[@pachelbel1]

He’s a POS pervert. He successfully pressured, on behalf of the Biden administration, WPATH to remove all age limits on “gender-affirming” procedures, including hormone treatment, mastectomies, genital surgeries. He should be in prison, along with the rest of them.

[@dreimalnein22]

16:15 Blanchard groups AGP in 4 sub-types, those obsessed with clothes, with body parts, with bodily functions & with social perception.

[@jenniferplatts174]

And then are those with all 4. Doesnt make ANY of it ok for males to come into our sexed spaces including sports. These blokes are catagories of male behaviour , so males can deal with it. Not our job as women to validate fetishes, cosplaying women behaviour. Just NO. And please bring back words like perversion and sexual fetish instead of ....'being his authentic self. ' These blokes are 😝

[@mummablue3107]

It was another fascinating discussion, thank you all. Az's thoughts on autism are really interesting and I will have to listen again to fully grasp what he is positing and would be interesting on his thoughts on the subset of late teen/early twenty something young women that are calling themselves gay boys, medicalising and then entering the onlyfans world of 'sissy porn' and 'mascfem porn'. I think there are more of them than is really understood. Personally I feel there is something a little sinister about it as many of the cheerleaders are those older male transvestites' that Az has identified, that don't medicalise and for whom it is a purely sexual experience. Safeguarding these vulnerable young women has gone out the window.

[@petersolomon5227]

Wonderful, endearing and grounded mental health professionals debunking some of the excesses of the gender movement.

[@yexilio]

I have a male gay friend, and he says that gay spaces are "accepting" of transguys... so Dr. Hakeem is right about that. Transguys are "allowed" in most male gay spaces, but that does not mean that they are sexually included or accepted, or "dated".

[@zaydeshaddox7015]

Use of sex and dating apps like Grindr shows that transmen are, indeed, accepted. But they're not getting actual, sexual interest from all but a very few gay men who are curious about how odd and different it is. They're not being cruised in the way that gay men cruise each other. But they are getting a lot of "friendly chats", some gay dude wanting to know more about who they are and treating them like a representative of the trans community. So... yeah, they're accepted, the same way a potted plant is accepted at a pie eating contest. It sits there, acknowledged but untouched, occasionally pointed out as a curiosity to the show, nothing more.

[@cultureapropriator]

Gay male spaces, at least in Europe, are full of TQIAP+ folks and very GNC gay men who I suspect are influenced to go trans. Are FtMs accepted by normal gay men? Normal gay men who are extroverted have private parties and the introverted ones like myself stay with close friends inside. We've scaped the spaces people think we share with FtMs.

[@robertmarshall2502]

I've heard gay guys complain that their apps are used by straight guys specifically looking for these vulnerable women who think they are men

[@rvastrik]

@@robertmarshall2502 It seems logical.

[@griiiim]

Alternatively, gay men who are actually in denial about their bisexuality are dating trans men. And straight men have confessed online to using grindr to pick up these vulnerable women because it's easy sex if they 'affirm' them.

[@motheringabomination1958]

I love Dr Az. Everything he says is so grounded and obviously true.

[@suzannehawkins383]

Ah, I’ve wondered for so long where all the transvestites were and how they fit into the equation. I’d assumed they had rebranded themselves as transsexuals. This is so interesting. Thank you for bringing up this subject!

[@justmy2cents652]

The rebranding is "transgender", trans in short. And yes, the driving force are men with "special interests". And institutions and politians are sascrifizing childrens health and futures and womens safety for them.

[@robyngild9433]

He's brilliant - such an informative discussion!! Would love to hear more from Dr Hakeem please!

[@VauxhallViva-s8x]

As always Dr Az brings his year’s of experience with this population to enlighten us. Another excellent episode

[@Argeaux2]

There are different levels of autism. Level 1 autistic people need support Level 2 autistic people need substantial support Level 3 autistic people need very substantial support Autistic people don’t all act, or think, the same. Meltdowns in level 1 autistic people often do not involve screaming, and crying. It disturbs me that this guest isn’t talking about what level of autism his clients are. I have a friend who is level 2, and very confused about his sexuality. First he thought he was pansexual. Then he really liked a man, and decided he was actually homosexual. Then his boyfriend wanted to have sex, and he was scared about it, so he broke up with his boyfriend, and has now decided that he is asexual. I am level 1. I wondered what it would be like to be a boy in high school, because I had a crush on my female friend. I got over that, and then had a crush on a boy in my class. That was enough to show me that I was a girl, who found both girls, and boys attractive. Later on I learned that there was a word for that, which is bisexual. I have been married for over 35 years, to a bloke, and am very glad that I am a woman.

[@amandag5072]

Yeah, his view on autistic people is rather ignorant given his profession.

[@balalaika852]

@@amandag5072 What did he say that was ignorant? To my mind, he's just not mincing words.

[@jm162]

Seriously interesting and important video...Dr Az as a clinician is a very important voice in this whole issue...

[@Berlinetta-h7p]

Thank you all, this was great. What was that "the seven year itch"? 😆. Old school goth as well. I still listen to Depeche Mode, The Sisters of Mercy, The Cure, The Cult, Siouxie and the Banshees etc etc etc. Love it all. Music kept me sane in an insane family.

[@acamic89]

Omg yay for the language moment at the end!!! Didn't know Stella knew Irish, amazing that Az knows Welsh and thank you Stella for the beautiful Arabic! ❤️❤️❤️ I was just wondering out loud to my husband last night what the mutual intelligibility of Welsh and Irish are 😂

[@chansonpapillon]

I am making this comment to show appreciation for Dr Hakeem's reference to Sandi Toksvig. I don't know what was most fascinating about this discussion - the fascinating points raised throughout, or the fact that Stella and Sasha have never heard of Sandi Toksvig! :D

[@kayemm1973]

She has been one of the biggest disappointments.

[@normnicklette5694]

When I was in school, Gender was a grammatical description used to qualify nouns. It was never used to describe humans!

[@lilyw.719]

You're totally wrong. Historically, gender and sex were used interchangeably as synonyms. Gender was a more polite way of saying sex, which is a naughty word (and which needs to become taboo again, because our culture has become so degenerate. We need to return to conservative social values). Gendering words in the Romance languages is entirely a reflection of the human gender dichotomy, btw. Example: The moon is universally gendered as female because it is thought to have female qualities. It has a number of parallels with female physiology and behavior.

[@didawson5317]

Judges in For Women Scotland appeal at UK Supreme Court about the definition of ‘what is a woman’ should read Dr Az’s book before they deliberate!

[@ycAuntieLala]

Mach 4 emo plus self harm The in between: first the obsession over categorizing all aspects of self: sexual preferences - - Demi, pan, a, Second the labeling or taking on emotional mental disorders: ocd, adhd, add , bipolar etc Mach 5 social media replacing music, Trans non binary , and the many categories and LABELS created and taken on by the lgbtqiaplus “community”

[@skwerlz4us]

YES. I was just thinking about that earlier today. I was trying to remember when I first began running into the new sexual orientation label trend in real life. I think I really noticed it around 2007-ish? I met a group of girls who were late teens/early 20s. All they talked about were their sexual preference labels in relation to their gender expression & they seemed totally immersed in it, like it was all that mattered. They each had multiple labels, half included being pan. I thought they came across as semi-punk rock gender nonconforming lesbians, but they used a whole different language & weren't into any music subculture (like most people I knew). Then I noticed I never seemed to meet younger lesbians anymore, they all used new labels. I had already known a number of trans people over the years, but most were a lot older than me & mostly mtf. I only knew one ftm x-lesbian. None of them spoke that new label language. I'm the end of Gen-X, so the first wave of pan people I met were all Millennial college kids, about 8-10 yrs younger than me.

[@singlalas]

This was a great conversation Thankyou 🙏🏻

[@jessk7240]

The AGP vs fetishistic transvestism theory is absolutely fascinating. I think this doctor’s breadth and depth of experience with relevant patients is hugely compelling. And I love all the Great Frog jewellery 😁

[@lancarlo3858]

It's astonishing that Dr. Hakeem is a psychiatrist who has treated AGPs, yet he doesn't know what AGP is. His distinction between AGP and transvestic fetishism is plain wrong. His description of AGP as "a man's arousal at imagining himself to have female genitals & breasts," is actually just one sub-category of AGP called anatomical AGP, of which there are four (transvestic, anatomical, physiological, and social). It seems Stella knew this (after all, she has spoken to sexologists who do know what AGP is, Blanchard & Bailey) but only gently pushed back/ questioned him because she didn't want to seem rude. In any case, if anyone is curious to know the true distinction between transvestic fetishism and AGP: Transvestic fetishists are aroused by wearing women's clothes, while AGPs are aroused by imagining themselves embodying womanhood. For an AGP, the clothes' purpose is to facilitate that desire. Also, there is substantial overlap between Tranvestites and AGPs, and often a man who has one has the other, but they can be mutually exclusive. For example, a transvestite can be aroused from wearing women's clothing, but not be aroused from imagining themselves as a woman or even desire to be a woman. Likewise, an AGP can be aroused from imagining himself as a woman -- but not be aroused from wearing women's clothing. Hope that helps.

[@jessk7240]

@ that’s fascinating, thank you! So is one diagnosis / type going to make you more motivated to get in women’s spaces/sports? Or is it just too enmeshed to tease out like that? I guess a transvestite who is simply aroused by wearing women’s clothing and doesn’t desire to *be* a woman might be more likely to keep it behind closed doors? It’s a very interesting area of human behaviour, isn’t it

[@StormBringer5]

@@lancarlo3858yes, I wonder if he’s even read Blanchard’s work? Considering he’s already written two books, I’m disappointed with his lack of familiarity with AGP.

[@intrusive-th0t]

He is incorrect though. Fetishistic transvestism IS a form of autogynephilia called transvestic AGP. What he is calling autogynephilia in this interview is actually “anatomic autogynephilia”. There are other subtypes as well such as behavioral AGP and physiologic AGP (men who are aroused by the thought of having periods, breastfeeding, being pregnant, etc.)

[@intrusive-th0t]

@@jessk7240behavioral AGP would be what motivates an AGP to want to be in women’s spaces, sports, etc.

[@Fonziruv]

I am so new to this side of the gender war. My kid has been dysphoric since I can remember but he knows hormones are not happening and will be going through his biological puberty. I feel like I'm in this limbo between worlds because I agree with everything you say but I also still believe my kid is one of those very rare kids with real dysphoria. My kid is also very grounded and knows his biology. He also cannot stand the path the trans community has gone in and wants nothing to do with the neopronoun people. I would love some advice

[@HansLemurson]

I don't want to harass you (or be harassed in turn by this audience) but I have some experience and some advice to give. What you have said worries me. I know you love your child and are trying to understand how to help them without making major or permanent mistakes. When you say "hormones are not happening" do you mean: (1) that it is unavailable where you are, (2) you have forbidden it as a parent, or (3) they have no interest in a feminizing puberty? If it's #1, that's most unfortunate, there are a lot of differences in laws and availability from place to place. If it's #3, that's very surprising, given that you say they've expressed gender dysphoria from a young age. If it's #2, then they will transition on their own once they leave home and will never forgive you. I wish I were wrong, but "dysphoric since childhood" are the most severe cases of gender incongruity. Despite attempts to frame it as some combination of "confused/autistic/fetishist", gender incongruity is a real thing. (I'm not saying those people _don't_ exist, but they aren't the ones who insist from a young age on a gender different from their body.) The maddening thing about a male-born transgender teen is that you can't just "wait until they're an adult", and important decisions have to be made in a time of great uncertainty. The effects of Testosterone are mostly irreversible: a deepened voice, facial hair, square frame and a strong jaw and brow. Totally fine for most boys, but for trans girls can range from "moderate discomfort" to "body horror of a disfiguring disease" (depending on the severity of their dysphoria and their genetic response to testosterone). But "gender confusion" is when you're actually uncertain about your gender. A prepubescent child insisting that their gender is different from their biology is probably the most gender-CERTAIN person you will ever meet, since they reached that conclusion _in spite_ of their body, which takes a great deal of introspection. But I don't know your child. All I know is what I've learned talking with trans women and reading their stories. It sucks that we don't have any objective way to test for neurological gender, just self-report (but some reports are fascinating, like "phantom limb" like sensations for body parts of the other sex). Talk to your child about what they want, and have honest and earnest discussions about the various pressures they feel from ideologies from all sides. Their truth must come from within; indeed there's no other place to find it. Let them figure out the path that is right for them with the love and support of a parent who has their back.

[@janebennetto5655]

Puberty is the answer for 98% of these anxious, self-aware young people. Contact Genspect for local therapist or support for you & your child. ❤️🇬🇧❌❌

[@HansLemurson]

@@janebennetto5655 Yes, most people questioning their gender shouldn't transition. But her description did sound like one of the rare ones where it will be necessary. But this is just the opinion of a person on the internet, so take it with a grain of salt. Lots of love and kindness to all.

[@kayemm1973]

Two things. One, chances are he will adjust his anxieties by going through puberty. Two, it now seems chemical or surgical treatments are not well evidenced so should really be off the table with alternatives such as therapy put into place, particularly exploring what exactly he dislikes or fears or if he is more concerned about tbe future him. Third, it sounds really hard, please also take care of yourself.

[@Nina_Olivia]

I love watching Stella’s face during these videos! 😂👍

[@ingridbean]

Same she is so expressive 😂❤️

[@greengardener517]

Great interview. I think it was RItchie Heron who said he knew his genital surgery was a mistake as he was being put under the anaesthetic.

[@Aomame77]

I was goth as a teenager. My mom thought it was adorable. She remembered her “rebellious” teenage years very well. I’m hoping that something else comes along that’s edgy and not dangerous as this trans stuff when my kids get to be teens. If not, I’ll just give them my old Tripp pants. lol

[@skwerlz4us]

Yeah but we didn't have the entire establishment, like schools, therapists/doctors, scientists, politicians, the f-ing White House, etc., supporting/teaching some edgy subculture, the delusion that we were naturally born goths & letting Medicaid cover vampire surgeries. This may have began in a similar manner as subculture trends of the past that broke into the mainstream, but I don't think this is gonna fade out in the same way cuz it's been getting baked in. You'd think the actual rebellious kids would be doing the opposite of this by now- which they might be since people have been joking for awhile that the new punk thing is to basically be MAGA/conservative, which is hilarious.

[@heidilee658]

It is so unethical what is going on.

[@christinehaylock8428]

A conversation between this guest and Phil Illy would be fascinating.

[@leslietayler3847]

I learned so much from this extraordinary gentleman. Thank you.

[@eb3222]

Wow, this was full of new informations for me! Thank you!

[@angelicahelen8039]

Thanks for the interview and conversation. It was very informative for an old-fashioned woman as me who doesn't understand this trans ideology.

[@HellCatt0770]

I bet 3 yr old Az sorted every block into colour, shape and categories I never even imagined!

[@h6hfelie]

As to Stella's question about the FtMs on the gay male dating apps: I've heard that there are now heterosexual men on those apps pretending to be homosexual men in order to get with the girls who ID as gay men (but have hardly transitioned at all, looks wise). In other words, there are rumours of predatory heterosexual men prowling gay male dating apps, looking for vulnerable girls who ID as trans.

[@cindyc3770]

This is true from what I've heard.

[@HkFinn83]

That would be virtually impossible. As a Grindr user it would take thousands of hours to even locate somebody that specific.

[@Amiegala]

Amazing episode! One of my favorites! Looking forward to sharing it!

[@Toastie19]

Interesting takes. It bothers me on GC social medias when SO many of them assume that every single TIM has AGP. It oversimplifies what is actually happening so much.

[@TheLongestConfidence]

Perhaps. But the way he describes it as a bright, delineating line between fetishistic transvestites and AGPs is obviously false.

[@claireharris8784]

Because trans activists have shut down any debate or publicly funded research so all we've had to go on is Blanchard's typography.

[@Toastie19]

@@claireharris8784that is true. I would love to know what percentage of them *now* would be considered AGP in some way but it’s impossible to know without any new research. It’s a completely different landscape compared to when Blanchard did his research.

[@neepers22]

I think GCs are concerned with anything that could be sexually motivated. So I think they've been stuck on TIMs are either AGPs, HSTS, or just plain frauds. I also think that there isn't a lot of good will left.

[@StormBringer5]

According to Blanchard’s work, 80% of non-homosexual transsexuals are AGP. So if a trans woman is female-attracted, there is a very high probability that person is AGP.

[@pb4life597]

I've seen more than once, the comment: "What's the difference between a transvestite and a transwoman? Two years." So, maybe the cross-dressing is just a starting point for an AGP, or the cross-dressing starts to lose its thrill and the fellow takes it to the next step for the next thrill, or ... I don't have another theory. Interested to hear what others think.

[@GordieGii]

I loved the Parlour of Babel at the end.

[@LadyDiana1956]

Great Interview ladies 👍🏻 and I enjoyed your guest. I was born in 1956 after 9 months of DES poisoning. I had always felt I was a girl , even when I was told I could never be a girl. I transitioned at 18 and SRS at 20. I have had a wonderful and full life, much better than the freak I felt I was. 👋🏻 Please take care of that cold. ❤

[@kbkb117]

Did he say he had vertical hair until it left him? Lolol

[@nachtrevi82]

In your first interview with Dr Hakeem he explained the whole theory of mind, autistic meltdown, goth mark 5, very well.

[@K10House]

I like how you all talked the night before about coordinating tops 😛 Seriously though, this was so interesting and full of such valuable information. Thank you a million times over for the work you're all doing 💛💛💛

[@ilpmuRk]

Without being too superficial I would have appreciated the first 20 minutes of the convo to be about those massive sculls and other jewellries. Seriously interested. Thats some unique shit

[@LolaMarigold]

Another fabulous talk.

[@llkoolbean4935]

He's such a brilliant mind.

[@EmmaGoldman1312]

Diolch yn fawr iawn I ti. Great conversation. Please keep talking about this. 👍

[@ChristinaChrisR]

Welsh? God I wished they had talked more Welch, Irish, and Arabic at the end. Seems my interest in languages is even greater than this (highly interesting) topic of gender! P.S. the only Welch word I know is Heddlu. 🤣

[@silkisnothere]

I love Sasha's outfit in the intro. Makeup, hair, accessories, it all looks beautiful!

[@tracymonroe6001]

I just found this podcast and have enjoyed several episodes. I love Az and his categories of goth--they're right on, and he summarized perfectly what we're seeing in schools with so many kids identifying as gender queer (or whatever other descriptors they have for their subculture) including his identifying many as autistic. Also, I think of myself as a tolerant person but have found myself really irritated by transwomen or transvestites, I guess, who dress like hypersexualized 15 YO girls. It gives ick and makes me feel guilty for being judgy. These issues are so complicated! I look forward to exploring your back catalog and have subscribed.

[@altawalker29]

Thanks!

[@liberality]

10:16 Not quite true that there is no music attached to the contemporary gender subculture. These kids have digital screens instead of transistor radios, and so their culture is video-first. Anime is one aspect, but there's also post-punk in a tradition that goes back to bands like Ludus in the early 1980's. The 7" single 'Anatomy is not Destiny' for example.

[@JaneHilton-u5h]

Not necessarily my daughter has autism thinks she s a boy and has relationships with gay young men ?? Work that one out ?

[@kayemm1973]

Since the dawn of time girls have been attracted to unattainable men or boys. From movie stars to pop stars and the sweet almost feminine soft boys that make up the boy bands are like catnip to girls, particularly vulnerable or young girls. Gay boys are ever so slightly more attainable and particularly if you try to act a way that would attract them, by pretending to be a boy. There's also a safety in that type of thing, it's clearly not going to lead to marriage and mortgages so no risk of having to be a real grown up.

[@LoneWulf278]

This was such a great break-down. Can’t wait to find his books.

[@kashesan]

The Disappearing Butch Project from over a decade ago would have helped a lot of these girls with no role models-but it went unnoticed.

[@Toastie19]

It is sad that girls don’t have many butch lesbian representation now. Like he said here, who do they have in Britain? Sandi Toksvig. I can’t imagine many young teenage girls are looking up to Sandi Toksvig. I like her work but she is incredibly dry and boring for a teenager.

[@EarthlingEveryman-zv7bs]

Julie Bindel, Kathleen Stock: The lesbian project. Angela Wild, Liane Timmerman: Get The L Out UK. Jenny Watson: The L Community. ​@@Toastie19

[@EarthlingEveryman-zv7bs]

... KZbin Channel: "Make more Noise". Ireland: Annaïg: Not all Gays. ​@@Toastie19

[@pauladewhurst9604]

If you are looking for lesbian roll models you need look no further than womens football. And we don'thave to label anyone butch. Lesbians are different presenting just like heterosexuals. @@Toastie19

[@nickbarber2080]

@@Toastie19 ...and also,to be frank.quite a lot older than most teenagers...

[@rose-hope]

So it would not be AGP that consider themselves “lesbians” it would be the transvestites? How do the AGP interact with others in sexual relationships?

[@StormBringer5]

AGPs do consider themselves lesbians. Some AGPs consider themselves bisexual/pansexual/etc. Something all AGPs have in common is *gynephilia* (attraction to women). Hence, Auto gynephilia*.

[@rose-hope]

@ that’s what I thought but it seems to go against what he’s saying about it being the transvestites not the AGPs who insist on forcing themselves into women’s spaces.

[@patricknoble3090]

At 40:00 the point re queer theory - why had that point never occurred to me. What a critical idea. He should write this book immediately. It's a subtle point, but I've never heard it made before and it's unbelievably profound

[@skwerlz4us]

What point did he make there? That queer theory wasn't meant to be taken literally & lived out? Because I have heard it said many times over that it's philosophical & not meant to be acted out (usually in the comments sections)- oftentimes when the video discusses parallels btwn gender ideology & religious belief. But I had yet to hear anyone claim the *actual authors* of queer theory meant it as an academic exercise. If he could prove that, he absolutely should write about it.

[@zedox424]

Lovely kitty cameo at 21:50! (And the conversation ain't bad, either 😸)

[@EarthlingEveryman-zv7bs]

I wish I was just half as cool as Az Hakeem 👓 .

[@Sillybillyilly]

People forget that society says we wear this and that .. we like this or that.. dresses aren't in someone's dna if men were supposed to have short hair it would STOP growing. Now in Gen z and Gen alpha it's if I hate my body I must be on the wrong one. Seriously it's mostly female to male.. and here in seattle parents have almost zero say in anything after 13.. and all these 13 14 year old girls went male during covid.. it's literally most of the giant high school my daughter go to and parents are rushed to the gender clinic or told their child will unalive themselves I don't believe my child my child is suffering from heavy trauma without enough support. Frie ds didn't believe it .. teachers didn't the therapist didn't but they all legally have to affirm ... so yaaay this fade is different from previous fads as this on involves surgery and life long medication that has been found to be destructive especially in ftm.. enough already I always felt the wrong skin tone.. can I change it ? Will that be acceptable??

[@jeanbotha8794]

Very good discussion, thank you Az for your amazing insights.

[@Zzyzzyx]

I don't buy his distinction between agp and trans fetishists. Rather, I don't buy his *definition* of agp. I had (what I consider to be) an agp boyfriend. He didn't want to invade women's spaces; he didn't want a vag; *he wanted to be the sex object.* He was insanely jealous of the female being the object of the gaze.

[@MysticMom75]

This is so interesting and I'd love to hear Dr Az comment on this. It does seem that a lot of these men that we consider to be AGP really have a humiliation fetish or a narcissistic disorder that gets channeled into wanting to be a sex object. I wonder if that is part of AGP OR if we are mis-applying the term and these are really fetishists who have latched on to female garb but really have a fetish rooted in something else. Az's book, Detrans, is really good and he talks about a lot of different men he worked with, including one that dressed as an old homeless lady, hoping one day some woman would take pity on him and take him in. So bizarre. (Also, sorry you had a boyfriend that sounds like he was pretty shitty to you.)

[@ycAuntieLala]

He wanted the attention. I don’t know where it fits in. jealousy (which can also be a huge sign of Insecurities) of MTF or FTM definitely plays apart in this . I would be curious where or how jealousy lands in this. Maybe in the vestite or rogd?

[@StormBringer5]

Yes, his definition does not match Blanchard’s. According to Blanchard transvestic fetishism is a subtype of AGP. I also had an AGP ex and he too wanted to be a sex object. But he framed it innocently, saying he wanted to be “pretty”.

[@HekateSelini]

a lot of transidentified males fetishize being a sex object - which they believe is what being a woman is. Absolutely cringeworthy.

[@dyoung1492]

Such a great video full of clarity and good sense. As a big fan forever of Germaine Greer I cannot stand how the grand dame of feminism has been cancelled for her views. This notion of "societal rape" makes a lot of sense. How these men demand, really DEMAND access to women's spaces is almost incomprehensible. We have to say (to paraphrase, Lurcio in Up Pompeii) nay, nay and thrice nay! The tide will turn on this sacred caste rather like (and Stella will get this) the Catholic Church in Ireland will end like the priestly caste when the horrors of this ideology reveal themselves. Right ... that's my bit done!

[@lauraestrada7279]

Im a Generation Xer. My sibling is gay and Hid behind in the early 80s and 90s androgynous music glam, punk and new wave.

[@kaynewling3455]

Thank you for a great discussion and the giving and explaining of definitions associated with the myriad personae derived from gender.

[@altnarrative]

This was so informative. Thanks!!

[@amandag5072]

@22:32 Az has some rather rigid views on the behaviour of autistic people.

[@Thomas-zx2yt]

love these discussions. It would probably be controversial, but it would be interesting to get a panel to discuss current youtube personalities and sy what category they 'seem' to be in. I realize that one cannot diagnose a person without meeting them but activists like "roxie tickle" seem to be the tv category of a man wanting to be in a woman's space (even it means destroying that space). Blaire White seems like a transexual (without bottom surgery) where Blaire Flemming seems to be about needing to be in women's sports while destroying the space for biological woman). Instead of "50 shades of Gray", it would be nice to have the "11 Shades of Transvestitism" with eamples. I wonder if Lilitino (who goes around baiting people who refer to him as "Sir" Is Lilitino really upset about not passing as a woman or getting off on bing recognized as a male? I would thing that a real 'transperson" would be embarassed about being misgendered and would not be posting all these youtube videos about being clocked as a man. I have a biological woman friend who is masculine looking and has a deep voice, she is embarassed when people refer to her as a man (she does not correct people and often lets it slide while keeping the interaction as short as possible) Lilitino, on the other hand, sets up a video camera and lies in wait like a spider waiting to be called "Sir" and then overreacts, calls the manager tells and many people as possible about being referred to as a man, and then posts it to youtube. I had the honor of meeting Christine Jorgenson once and having a conversation. Lilitino seems to have nothing in common with a true transesxual.

[@justmy2cents652]

I think Flemming is one of the poor boys being caught up in trans ideology ("being born in the wrong body): He needs to be in womens spaces for affirmation. To be really considered a "real girl" and of course it is nice to be successful in sports. I think he is rather a HSTS and had been very feminine. "Liah" Thomas on the other hand I'm quite sure he is a misogynistic fetishist on an egocentric power trip. That Lilli-guy: He's a man who is into degradation and power plays. The worst type of "trans": Forcing others to take part in his kink.

[@VauxhallViva-s8x]

To answer Stella’s question about FTMs on gay men’s hook up sites. It’s definitely happening. On the UK app I use (aimed at the macho end of the gay male world) I count 1% currently in London users. 5 years ago it was 0%. Probably higher on apps like Grindr. Higher still in North America I’d expect.

[@RachelDavies-wn7ir]

'Woman face' is an issue.

[@jcortese3300]

I wish there were more middle ground in how these things are seen. An awful lot of people who think of sex as disgusting and gross and who can't tolerate the idea of being touched have been sexually abused as kids. People who say that seem to ignore the existence of autistic traits that might make these sensations overwhelming, and he seems to ignore the possibility that these people may have been abused as kids. Can't we acknowledge both -- that some people are autistic and can't deal with the overstimulation of sexual touch, and some people may have been abused as kids and can't deal with it for that reason? Why does it all have to be either 100% one or the other?

[@nparksntx]

I’ve known a lot of autistic guys in my life. I’ve only known one trans “woman” and he is autistic. I had known him since middle school and back then autism was used to describe those in special education classrooms. Only thing unusual about him was that he always had long hair and always in a low ponytail.

[@ryanmedlin5452]

Fantastic interview!!!

[@dreimalnein22]

31:44 that was Alex L from Norway

[@Knuck_Knucks]

Variables upon variables upon variables. Meanwhile Doctors are so quick to deliver instant gratification. It begs the question; whose gratification is the Doctor prioritizing? 🐿

[@EJAY1368]

Brilliant video 👏 👏 👏

[@josephshuffield6113]

BOY GEORGE!!!! Yes! I remember as an 80’s teen seeing a BG video that ends with him drinking from a mug that has BOY on it, and just feeling…. so confused and intrigued!

[@jm162]

Dr Az nails it...the transvestites have been utilised for the small subset who are the bigger weirdos...

[@sarahkellem4863]

No follow up question about the lookalikes?! You are disciplined podcast hosts 😂.

[@kiddarice]

I always go back to the pioneer episode where they discussed the support groups that were in place that had trans, detrans,,etc to discuss everything prior to anyone making any decisions. Everyone referenced the lack of that these days in this episode

[@dreimalnein22]

9:00 YES! thank you Az for helping me out with that (self)identification!! =) and well, Blanchard would group all o it together and differenciate subgroups within agp.