Freestyle Tai Chi Push Hands Championship: ICMAC 2023

[@Tasmanaut]

the guy in yellow really seemed a level above the others. He didn't go for any sudden sneaky forceful stuff, he remained calm and slow, and only raised his intensity when others raised theirs against him.

[@sengwenglong2883]

you're absolutely right, he was using the correct tai chi technique.

[@derrylwillis9565]

Thank you for sharing- you are solid!

[@ClarksVideo]

It's like Sumo for skinny people 😃

[@logan5326]

😂🤣😭…Sumo light feather weight!

[@CharlesBetancourt-iq9oe]

5:04 So there's the tai chi counter to the Judo throw.When the man who looks like he goes to the gym gets beat by the one who doesn't, that's tai chi.

[@mzmxx]

Authentic taiji is so profound for a mind that is already fixated.

[@TaiChiTex]

Thanks for posting.

[@madogblue]

I guess I dont understand this type of competition. It starts off looking like typical push hands and then morphs into wrestling. Is grabbing alowed?

[@ShorelineTaiChi]

No grabbing legs, clothing or neck. Yes to other grabs IIRC.

[@BobJohnson992]

In Chen Village, they don't teach push hands for a number of years (3-7) because they don't want the student to just wind up doing muscular Shuai Jiao type techniques. Shuai Jiao, wrestling, use of force, etc., are not Taijiquan. The push-hands bouts in Western tournaments isn't really Taijiquan, either, for that same reason.

[@ShorelineTaiChi]

Chen Village. kzbin.info/www/bejne/Z2q0c2WdpM5nb8U

[@ShorelineTaiChi]

Chen Village. kzbin.info/www/bejne/nJSTgomdms1laas

[@ShorelineTaiChi]

Chen Village. kzbin.info/www/bejne/mneraJWrhaqChas

[@BobJohnson992]

@@ShorelineTaiChi I've seen all those videos before. Not sure what you think they mean, but it doesn't affect what I posted above.

[@ShorelineTaiChi]

Anyone can watch these videos and decide for themselves what they mean. Thanks for your comment.

[@TaijiquanExplained]

what happened to the guy in black at 4:00 ?

[@ShorelineTaiChi]

He scored a point.

[@TaijiquanExplained]

@ sure. What happened after that? Did he progress in the competition? Strange not to see his other matches.

[@ShorelineTaiChi]

@@TaijiquanExplained There are usually two separate rings hosting push hands competition. I myself did not see or record all the various matches. The man in black is quite good.

[@EternalArtsTex]

I dug everything you did in this one. Great job like always! Did you get the fixed step? Just wasn't in the cards for us to attend even though that used to be my main tournament. All the pictures coming out make it seem like it was one for the books!

[@ShorelineTaiChi]

Yes, it was a huge competition this year. I have portions of the other events on video. Will publish if you want to see them.

[@EternalArtsTex]

@@ShorelineTaiChi I would love to see them. I had so many friends and old class mates there from the years. Seeing the videos helps me feel like I am back there! You did some great stuff in this one tho. That sweep.I mean perfect.

[@taijinusantara]

Nice tuishou....💪💪💪👍👍👍

[@chrismalp7702]

05:03 Here it is

[@chrismalp7702]

06:08 it is valid?

[@ShorelineTaiChi]

Explicitly cleared in advance with the judges.

[@muhammadilhamafief1732]

Is there a class classification based on weight in this competition?

[@ShorelineTaiChi]

Yes, there are weight classes.

[@cplim4842]

Everyone has to start somewhere. Good to participate. Keep trying to be more stable and improve your sensing ability.

[@blockmasterscott]

0:39 Very nice redirect!

[@Tasmanaut]

oh wait, YOU are the dude in yellow right? haha I see now! Yeah, you're actually very skilled. It's a shame some of the commenters can't see what is going on here. I think you gave a really honest application, you didn't try to overwhelm them with intensity and speed, though many of these people were just going all-out with the intensity and using that to try to 'win'. I'm not some master, in fact I'm not very good at all, but this is what it looks a bit like when I have wrestled and played around with friends. I might use a pit of 'press' which is surprising, they become off balanced and they immediately ramp up the intensity and start going all out with as much force as possible. I don't do it any more because someone ends up getting hurt, people can't leave their egos at the door and just have fun playing around.

[@lakland5594]

Nice Chris @:40 and Andrew at 4:44

[@LuisMartins-r8l]

like in many other championships very few taichi principles. Just brute force where the stronger always wins. They bet on root and have no agility.

[@ShorelineTaiChi]

Obviously your statement is not true. The first person lost by leaning, as did the last, and many in between.

[@LuisMartins-r8l]

@@ShorelineTaiChi the level of colliding (force against force) is so useless that really doesn't match the taichi principles anymore. It is something I would expect in some forms of taichi wrestling but not here

[@ShorelineTaiChi]

You simply have no understanding of Tai Chi principles. Even on the very first point -- the smaller person won.

[@Tasmanaut]

the yellow dude looked pretty decent. This is what real, honest taiji looks like among less than perfect practitioners. They are playing a wrestling game and trying to win, some are not displaying perfect technique, but they are making an honest attempt to apply the principals. The dude in yellow gives a pretty good and honest demonstration

[@inmemoryofin]

Ok granted, I practice push hands but do much more form work. I find this kind of competition strange in terms of taiji and would like some clarification. Where's the song? I'm seeing arched backs, lots of shoulder tension, and bracing against their opponent. I'm seeing very little liu, hua or peng in use. This is fine as wrestling, is probably good fun, and would certainly take practice, strength and skill - but how is this any more taiji than some other type of wrestling? Not that what I'm describing is unique to this particular competition at all. It seems normal for push hands competitions. It seems more like they start the typical push hands circular thing with the arms for a moment , then drop anything taiji related for wrestling as soon as someone adds any kind of aggressiveness (the positive sporting type, of course. Everyone here seems to be bringing good vibes, an accomplishment of its own imho!). Please don't take this as taiji bashing, it's not (practicing on and off since 1996, myself). Maybe I'm making too much of it, I don't know.

[@ShorelineTaiChi]

Making too much of it? Not at all. I am happy to address your comments in depth. First... this event was approximately 30 minutes long. I have tried posting raw footage of other events in the past, and the consensus feedback was, this is all too boring. We just want to see the highlights. So what you are seeing in this video are the most active, aggressive, and decisive moments of the competition. When competitors were just standing around -- feeling relaxed and sensing energies with no consequential outcome -- that was deliberately cut from the video.

[@ShorelineTaiChi]

Second... any expert can spot the differences between this event and wrestling. It is more upright. The holds are shorter and shallower. No grabs allowed to neck or legs. Et cetera. To call this wrestling is very much a mǎmǎhūhū observation. You may already know the mǎmǎhūhū 马马虎虎 story, but for those who do not, I will summarize. A painter is drawing a tiger, when a new customer enters his shop. The customer wants a horse. So the painter draws some horse legs on the bottom of the half-finished tiger and sells it. The customer loves the painting and takes it home, where his sons admire and study it. One day the son encounters a real tiger, declares it to be a horse, tries to ride on it, and is devoured. End of story. "Competitive push hands is just wrestling" is a mǎmǎhūhū meme, created by phony Taiji masters, to extend the life of their poor instructional product. They want to keep selling half-drawn tigers, to an audience who has never seen a real one.

[@ShorelineTaiChi]

Third... The event rules are frequently improvised. This is a genuine problem. One set of rules is provided to competitors in advance, and a slightly different set is applied during the match. This fosters anxiety in all the competitors, and makes them look and perform worse than their peers in other styles of martial arts.

[@blockmasterscott]

Dude, you gotta start somewhere. No one starts highly skilled.

[@davidmiller4078]

This is funny push hands i always understood there were rules for differant types and levels like fixed step ie stiationary or with steps or as this seems to be so called free style which in my personal view quickly degenerates into judo type biggest person wins ? This is not my understanding of pushands tuio shou or listening hands ?

[@ShorelineTaiChi]

Martial arts competitions are normally organized into weight classes. Sometimes they add an openweight or grand champions division, where you can immediately see the importance of weight classes. Tai Chi is not special here; other things being equal the larger person wins.

[@bruhmoment1208]

As far as you know, is tai chi derived from shuai jiao? I know it's a generic term for wrestling in China, but is Tai Chi a distinct tradition, or a branch of the martial art we would call Shuai Jiao?

[@ShorelineTaiChi]

Early 20th century Yang style Tai Chi is not a branch of Shuai Jiao. Look at the importance of striking and weapons training, the taboo around jacket grips, et cetera.

[@tiborkerecsenyi2622]

But where is the softness?

[@justinsnow3979]

Where’s Niko in this one?

[@ShorelineTaiChi]

He did not attend this event.

[@romedbucher2854]

Lots of shoving, very little Tai Chi

[@ShorelineTaiChi]

Next year's event begins on June 27.

[@romedbucher2854]

@@ShorelineTaiChi Why should I participate in something like this? It's certainly fun for people who enjoy this, but it has very little to do with Tai Chi Chuan. I'm only commenting on what I see. IMO, these events give Tai Chi a bad reputation and therefore, I'm not a fan. But as I said, let those who think it's fun have fun, I just would with they'd call it something else than Tai Chi Push Hands.

[@ShorelineTaiChi]

One reason to participate in an event like this, is to meet people who are more skilled and experienced than yourself.

[@romedbucher2854]

@@ShorelineTaiChi more skilled and experienced in what? As someone else already pointed out, as soon as it gets a bit serious, most people forget about the principles of Tai Chi and resort to whatever they believe might give them an advantage. So, it's a kind of funny grappling competition, ok, but has very little to do with Tai Chi Chuan. The reason I even react is that it's exactly these things that are so damaging to the reputation of Tai Chi Chuan as a martial art. I know the demolishing fighting power of Tai Chi Chuan from real experience, but most people don't, and then they judge it by what they see in these competitions and even worse bullshit, like delusional sloppy middle-aged men calling themselves Tai Chi masters challenging professional fighters.

[@ShorelineTaiChi]

Show up next year and take your medicine.

[@zhaoang2011]

in yellow T shirt guy is perfect! That is real Tai Ji Push hand!

[@dannainan]

How can they concentrate with that loud music playing? 😂

[@RandAlthor939]

Disappointed I was hoping to see unbalancing techniques etc . But it’s just the strongest wins with very little or no technique

[@lindltailor]

Frankly looks dangerous, no mats, and a table is right next to the boundary

[@ShorelineTaiChi]

You're right. They should have put mats down and moved the table back.

[@WaiManYu-u8q]

這種鬥死牛力比賽，其實不應以人家的宗派命名，。

[@saifodinabdullah8895]

sifu, the way you stand there is very "peng"

[@rolib6108]

2 judo lessons, and you can defeat anyone at this tournament

[@ShorelineTaiChi]

Can you schedule two judo lessons and attend next year?

[@nndaystar]

love this response, lol.@@ShorelineTaiChi

[@blockmasterscott]

@@ShorelineTaiChi OMG, great response! 👍💪

[@lawrencecron672]

This would make more sense to me if you were wearing armour. It just explains why you increase your skills with these types of sensitivity drills. Koryu Bujutsu that was refined into Gendai equivalent eg Aikido. Hsing Yi is spear refined to empty hand forms. Can we reverse the Chen into white crane, yes. Can we reverse the empty hand into weapons? I surmise all systems are refined from the weapon form first , armoured and from War martial arts then later re systemised into modern era MMA of description. I have played with Bagua and some Hsing Yi so also I think it’s imperative to experience and feel what the internal arts offer and the different approaches. I remember being told at forty I was finally old enough to finally learn Baguazhang. It wasn’t until I understood that he was right did I understand.

[@alfredorusso9263]

Jutsuka here, it’s PUSHING not THROWING.