Freeze Drying Orange Juice

[@SchoolReports]

Want to support this work? Buy me a coffee :-) www.buymeacoffee.com/DanZm Freeze dried orange juice is very hygroscopic, so it needs to be removed from the freeze dryer when it is still warm and bagged immediately.

[@cashfamilyfarm9637]

Good to now

[@marcfruchtman9473]

That is really interesting! I didn't realize how much it would expand. Very enlightening. Thanks for pointing this video out.

[@SchoolReports]

I haven't read the whole paper because - paywall. This is where I confirmed the need to lower the Brix enough to not balloon up too much. After someone had said that "you can't freeze dry OJ" I know I had to do it. The freeze-drying of orange juice for the preparation of reference materials - page-one.springer.com/pdf/preview/10.1007/BF00472671

[@mericalistening]

I would of blended it into a powder like raw eggs. But I'm happy to see that you can freeze dry orange juice. I ended up buying the Medium freeze dryer. I'm thinking I should of stepped up into the large on. That's my only regret

[@SchoolReports]

Thanks for watching and commenting. You could blend it. I don't blend any of the freeze dried foods after drying and before bagging and certainly not orange juice or anything sugary. Freeze dried orange juice is very hygroscopic, (it will start pulling moisture from the air so soon as it's out of the freeze dryer) so it needs to be removed from the freeze dryer when it is still warm and bagged immediately. You can powder it before bagging; I now use a big zipper bag and a rolling pin to crush/powder things. This was my first try at a whole freeze dryer full of OJ. If powdered, and it's a humid day, the powder will start to clump before you can get it into the bags. I guess i could run a dehumidifier in my bagging area. The way we been powdering now. kzbin.info/www/bejne/gaOleqJ6pqybn6M

[@shanewilliams4603]

@@SchoolReports and a food grade moisture absorber to catch whatever got in(I didn't see you put any in the bag but I guess they could already be in there).

[@SchoolReports]

@@shanewilliams4603 They may be worth using, but I never have and I haven't seen any science/commercial papers saying that I should, and Mountain House freeze dried food packs don't have them. I don't think Silica Gel will do what people think they will do. I could be wrong! I found this in the Q & A area at PackFreshUSA: The desiccant absorbs moisture. If you have an Oxygen Absorber system with a good seal, there is not really a need for one usually. . . . You wouldn’t be the first to use one and it certainly wont hurt... it just is likely not necessary.

[@shaunnichols4664]

Could you put a piece of parchment paper on top of the frozen juice in the tray to keep it off the shelf above it or would it make it worse and go out the side and everywhere?

[@SchoolReports]

That could be useful and it shouldn't hurt anything. By mixing it with part of the water that would normally be added (I added 2/3rds of the water), to lower the Brix level (sugar concentration levels) to something that works better for the drying process in our machines it puffs up much less. Otherwise it balloons up too much, like the way it looked in the first few second of the video. Another that might help (that I haven't tried:) is to lower the tray temperature. Just like how candy does not puff up as much at lower temps, this should be true with OJ too.

[@shaunnichols4664]

@@SchoolReports I just did a batch of OJ with parchment paper (regular grocery store off the shelf jug, not concentrate and not watered down). Worked very well. Froze the juice first. Used push pin to make small holes in frozen juice. Cut about an inch of toothpick and stuck in holes. Put parchment paper over that. In the dryer it went. The bubbles didn't push out the sides. The tooth picks were easy to find and remove. Will be repeating

[@SchoolReports]

@@shaunnichols4664 Sound great! I haven't done non concentrated OJ yet. Did it balloon up at all? With non concentrated juices I'd be far less worried about it bubbling up. It's the concentrated sugars in the concentrated OJ (and other concentrated juices) that cause the issue. I based this in part my own trials, and on this paper (See the section Experimental) - The freeze-drying of orange juice for the preparation of reference materials page-one.springer.com/pdf/preview/10.1007/BF00472671

[@shaunnichols4664]

​@@SchoolReports It def bubbled. I don't cut my paper like you. The width of my paper is the depth of the tray. Doesn't cover completely. The two inches at the front where the parchment didn't reach ballooned to the top of the shelf. Was an easy clean. Seems like my middle tray bubbles more than the rest for some reason. Its good enough to maybe look into other juices and def more OJ while humidity is low in the winter.

[@SchoolReports]

@@shaunnichols4664 Thanks. That's all great information! I would expect the middle two tray to balloon more; those two trays are almost always about 10ºf hotter than the top and bottom trays. That's why I rotate our trays. I should redo this video and include more details. I have to apologize for many of my older videos. Even I hate to look at them! In my focus to keep them very short, most of my older, shorter videos are almost devoid of information! I tried hard to keep the videos down to 10 to 15 minutes, no matter what I had to cut out! Good call about humidity levels and doing it in the winter! (or running a good dehumidifier) To help with humidity issues I try to take OJ out while it's still very warm and get it bagged quickly. I also wouldn't put it into a blender and whirl the tiny particles (with all it's surface area) around in all the humidity that's in the air. (People keep telling me I should blend it before bagging) I do now put the OJ into zipper bags as soon as I take it out of the freeze dryer, and crush it before bagging.

[@karenash8647]

Just out of curiosity, and I know it’s probably a stupid question, but why do you reconstitute the orange juice prior to freeze drying?

[@SchoolReports]

That's a good question! (I've seen stupid questions before, and this is _not_ what they look like:) I added 2/3rds of the water that would normally be added to lower the Brix level (sugar concentration levels) to something that works better for the drying process in our machines. Otherwise it balloons up too much, like the way it looked in the first few second of the video. See the section - Experimental The freeze-drying of orange juice for the preparation of reference materials page-one.springer.com/pdf/preview/10.1007/BF00472671

[@Barbie08081]

Could you put a piece of parchment paper on top so it don’t stick to the top?

[@SchoolReports]

We could. I don't know if it would be useful, but it shouldn't hurt anything either. By mixing the concentrated OJ with part of the water that would normally be added (I added 2/3rds of the water), it lowers the Brix level (sugar concentration levels) to something that works better for the drying process in our machines it puffs up much less. Otherwise it balloons up too much, like the way it looked in the first few second of the video. Another that might help (that I haven't tried:) is to lower the tray temperature. Just like how candy does not puff up as much at lower temps, this should be true with OJ too.

[@Barbie08081]

@@SchoolReports thank you for replying I’m hoping I can get a machine in the next year or 2 so I’m trying to learn as much as I can and your channel has definitely taught me a lot

[@twicebestgirls8193]

6:31 why did you not grind it so it can be powderized and tiny the parcticles

[@kelloggkirsten]

He didn't grind it probably because it's too sticky. I recently tried freeze drying fresh squeezed (not from concentrate) tangerine and grapefruit juices and it fluffed up (like shown at the beginning) and then it became super sticky as it sat. I tried then putting it in the dehydrator on parchment paper but again, eventually became sticky. I simply transferred those into my freezer for long term storage because they reconstitute properly but impossible to store outside of a freezer. The substance coming out of the freeze dryer as shown in this video, if immediately ground and put into a container, it would just get sticky again because of the high sugar content. I am determined to have fresh juice, not from concentrate. I've been researching how much to add: maltodextrin and/or arabic gum, and possibly arrowroot powder. Research shows that maltodextrin works well to solve the problem without adding more water.

[@SchoolReports]

​@@kelloggkirsten Thanks for this info about maltodextrin. (I just noticed this comment and your other one about maltodextrin) You are absolutely correct about OJ becoming sticky it left out, even for a couple minutes, and even in a sealed zipper bag. My OJ has been pretty successful as long as I take it out of the freeze dryer when it's still warm (15 minutes before the cycle completes) and bag it fast. Orange juice is so hygroscopic, that it needs to be removed from the freeze dryer when it is still very warm and bagged immediately. It could probably be powdered but I think it would need to be done in an area with very low humidity and it still might need it be re-dried to prevent clumping. So I just don't powder it and it stores fine in the Mylar bags on the shelf. I'll have to look into the maltodextrin.

[@egomaniac8510]

Why not just dry the fcoj right out of the can? What is the purpose of reconstituting it only to suck the water back out?

[@SchoolReports]

Because it will skin over and blow up like a balloon without the right dilution. (see the first few seconds of the video) You can also check out this paper, first page, second column, under "Experimental" link.springer.com/article/10.1007/BF00472671

[@mikesfarmmikesfarm3977]

why did you add more water that has to be removed in fd ? if you wanted to spread evenly on trays i can see adding a little water. What do you think is the shelf life is ?

[@SchoolReports]

Good question. I added water to lower the Brix level to something that works better for the drying process in our machines. Otherwise it balloons up too much. See the section _Experimental_ _The freeze-drying of orange juice for the preparation of reference materials_ page-one.springer.com/pdf/preview/10.1007/BF00472671 As far as shelf live (assuming perfect storage conditions - protected from light, heat, moisture), a very long time? 30 years? As long as honey? Forever? I really don't know, but I have no reason to think it would be less than other freeze dried items.

[@SchoolReports]

Catwood Cooking wrote: This is the Original (first published) Use Water on Sugary Items video. Additional SchoolReports basic science of using what you have to get a good product were why I knew I had to subscribe and build a relationship here. 😃

[@powwer123]

Why do you have a picture of (This old Tony) son at the end?

[@SchoolReports]

It's a link to his channel. Honestly, it's because I felt that if people made it to the end of my crappy videos, I should leave a link to a good channel! I love his style. These are the channels I tend to watch/listen to while I'm editing my stuff or answering comments: This Old Tony How To Cook That Cody'sLab Technology Connections Sampson Boat Co The History Guy Cutting Edge Engineering Australia Baumgartner Restoration VivaFrei on Locals and a few Law channels and Math channels.

[@powwer123]

@@SchoolReports Dont put yourself down. I did a search and found this video. Watched most of it to the end and saved it. i

[@shaunnichols4664]

Ever tried regular, non concentrate, OJ?

[@SchoolReports]

No, I've never had any fresh OJ that I could use for freeze drying. It _will_ freeze dry great, there's just more water in the fresh OJ.

[@jdog1957]

A question about caramel. Should I pre freeze them before I run them through the freeze dryer ?

[@SchoolReports]

We recently did some more candies, (video coming soon) including some caramel type ones and they did fine without prefreezing. There just isn't enough water in them to need a lot of freezing. We did make sure to get the machine (and the candy) very cold before the drying cycle. Soft candies seem to expand more if freeze drying/vacuum starts at a lower temperature.

[@bayilzz883]

Why is the orange juice CHUNKY

[@HarshmanHills]

Can it be eaten as is?

[@SchoolReports]

Absolutely. Most freeze dried foods can be eaten dry. For the oranges I've even tried a test (I think it worked well) making blended orange 'chips' for snacking. Rehydrating and Re-Freezing Drying of Blended oranges - kzbin.info/www/bejne/mn6wXntubNakoLMsi=6Kq9MCwcqVOK0tW1

[@HarshmanHills]

@@SchoolReports thanks

[@susyQ564]

It would be nice to see the juice again

[@SchoolReports]

Thanks for watching! Rehydrating some orange juice: kzbin.info/www/bejne/rZeZi3SJhcecerc

[@MrOffTrail]

How did you make your acrylic insulation disc? (What thickness, handle design, etc). Are you happy with it? How is the insulation vs the pad? Any negatives? It seems like a great idea. I’d love to be able to visually inspect my runs, maybe even put thermometers in the trays, if it insulates about as well as the pad. Thanks!

[@SchoolReports]

The disc seems to work much better than the pad that came with the freeze dryer as far as lowering thermal transfer. I'm basing this on the fact that the front of the door does not get nearly as cold with the plastic disc in place as it did with just the pad. I love how good of a job it has done and have not experienced ANY downside yet. I think we have been using it for at least 80 batches. I used 0.075" (1.9mm) thick acrylic, though I'm sure thicker would work great. First, if your freeze dryer is like ours, you don't want a perfect circle. The opening on ours is not quite round. For my first test piece I cut a very accurate circle out of a piece of foamcore and it had gaps up to 3 - 4 mm (1/8"+) around the edge. So instead, I took the seal off and cut a piece of foamcore just a little smaller than the inside of the metal freeze dryer opening. I glued a little handle to the middle of one side and put it into the freeze dryer. Then, I put the seal back in place and pulled the piece of foamcore tight up against it and carefully traced the opening. Next, cut the foamcore disc and test it for fit; if it's good, trace it onto the acrylic. I cut the acrylic using a scroll saw followed by a little sanding to get it right to the line. On the front face of the disc I glued a few spacers around the edge and a piece in the middle to use as a handle. (These were just some scrap pieces about 1/2" tall) The spacers insure that there is space between the disc and the door, and is about in the middle of the seal each time. I marked where the top is so I can put the acrylic in in the same orientation each time; I also make sure to install the seal in the same direction every time it's removed. Finally, I put a thin strip of self adhesive foam weatherstrip at the back edge of the seal to give the acrylic disc something to bump into so I don't push it all the way inside.

[@twicebestgirls8193]

At 2:25 *what is that machine thing*?

[@annwithaplan9766]

Twice Best Girls - It is a freeze dryer.

[@georgephilips3528]

What was your cycle time? I pre-freeze my juice.

[@SchoolReports]

I don't know the times on most of my older batches. I didn't think to track it back then. OJ is on my list of thing to do again and next time I will track all the data. I prefreeze just about everything; it saves time in the freeze dryer, and I would have to prefreeze liquids anyway because I have the older machine with the angled rack.

[@jaunbonaysmith]

I just stumbled upon your channel & I've learnt so much thank u😊😊

[@mikedinsmoor]

The bubbling may be due to not reaching the freezing (eutectic) point of your sugar solution (OJ concentrate). Also, I have heard that some concentrate OJ's have ingredients added that depresses the freeze point even further (freeze flo?) for easy poring and this may also be a factor. Make sure its 100% OJ. Adding water should raise the freezing point (depression point) but it is still probably much lower then 32F. Its already pasteurized and juiced so why even freeze dry since the nutrients and texture is already gone? Why not find a cheaper less power hungry method or source powdered product? Save wear and tear on your machine. Now if you had some fresh raw orange juice that would maybe worth trying but I'm not sure the harvest right can get the moisture content down to 3-5% to make it long term stable.

[@SchoolReports]

The OJ concentrate I'm using claims to be 100% orange juice. I prefer the taste frozen OJ over fresh. The foods being freeze dried are being frozen to lower than - 50F. Determining the water content using the Oven Drying Method shows a moisture content of < 1% in the finished foods.

[@mikedinsmoor]

Those are some amazing numbers you have there. You sound like you know what you are doing.

[@SchoolReports]

@@mikedinsmoor I think of it more like "I don't know what I'm doing, so I'm constantly researching and testing." There are some useful papers on the testing of freeze drying fruit juice for lab and commercial use going back to the 80s.

[@WaffleStaffel]

@@SchoolReports Interesting note: using orange oil as a feedstock, many different chemicals can be synthesized. As long as they were derived from oranges, they can legally be labeled as 100% natural orange juice. This is how they achieve a consistent flavor from year to year, they use synthetic flavoring derived from oranges.

[@bilezmom11]

So what would happen if I FD’d fresh squeezed orange juice?

[@SusanMcGarryGlass]

FYI- This video & the next have the wrong thumbnail.

[@SchoolReports]

?? This is a video about OJ and has a thumbnail showing OJ. The next video is strawberries and yogurt and has a thumbnail showing strawberries and yogurt. What am I missing?

[@MGillDesign]

I want to try cranberry juice. Do you think pre-freezing the cranberry juice in ice cub trays, then putting the individual cubes in the freeze dryer would work?

[@SchoolReports]

I think that would be a great way to try it. We've done a few things in ice cube size trays; they've done great. It'll be interesting to see how much solids are in cranberry juice. I'll have to try it too.

[@MGillDesign]

@@SchoolReports Awesome. thanks for the response. I just ordered my freeze dryer, so won't be able to experiment until likely November. In terms of solids... there is a company (Biofinest) online that sells freeze dried cranberry juice (so i think it's possible). I would just like to make my own, though.

[@SchoolReports]

@@MGillDesign November! Yikes! We had to wait about a week and a half for ours. I guess sales are up. I hope you like yours as much as we have ours. As far as I can tell the new machines are even better than when we got ours.

[@suzetteatkinson4822]

Did u heat seal above the zipper? Where u can recluse it.......? And why wouldn’t u just blend it up to use smaller bags? Confused there?

[@SchoolReports]

Yes, heat seal above the zipper. Freeze dried orange juice is very hygroscopic, (it will start pulling moisture from the air so soon as it's out of the freeze dryer) so it needs to be removed from the freeze dryer when it is still warm and bagged immediately. You can powder it before bagging. This was my first try at a whole freeze dryer full of OJ. But, I do want the bag to be big enough to mix the orange juice in, so it needs to hold at least 48 ounces. If powdered, and it's a humid day, the powder will start to clump before you can get it into the bags. I guess i could run a dehumidifier in my bagging area.

[@SnoopySleuth]

Wonderful! Hey, one thing I found out, a plastic potato smasher works better than a spatula.

[@SchoolReports]

Great tip! Thanks, I'll have to get one.

[@zakglove6536]

Why are you adding water? And then pre freezing it. Making your freeze dryer work extra hard. Don't pre freeze and it won't bubble up. Putting water in a vacuum makes it boil and get colder til it freezes. This boiling time is the easiest time for water to be taken out

[@zakglove6536]

When I say boiling it's not cuz it's hot it cuz the atmospheric pressure is below the waters boiling point. That's why there's no water in space.

[@zhippidydoodah]

So many people recommend pre-freezing the items. Not sure if it is the same, but I did banana mash - not pre frozen, and it bubbled up. When I pre-froze the banana mash, it didn't bubble up.

[@brettreinbold297]

A question, what did you use to cover the black door gasket. It is silver in color. I am very interested!

[@SchoolReports]

The short answer is: metalized film bubble pad It is metalized film bubble stuff that was used for shipping cold stuff. (I think it may have been this kind, but there are lots of them, I just used what I had; CooLiner Box Liner from Insulated Products Corporation ipcpack.com/products/box-liners/) I put this on to better insulate the seal area, and the little space between the seal and the rest of the machine where the freeze chamber is exposed, because the seal would freeze and end up with ice and frost on it. Then, when the freeze dryer was defrosted, the ice would melt and water would run down the front of the freeze dryer. I measured the space between the door and the front of the freeze dryer and cut strips of the insulation material that wide. Next, I cut enough to wrap around the seal 3 or 4 time, taped them together end to end, and finally, wrapped it around the seal and taped the end. I also changed out the door pad for a tight fitting disc I cut out of Acrylic; it seems better for lowering heat transfer and it better for monitoring the freeze drying items.

[@truthseeker5496]

@@SchoolReports Thank you for your info. I would have liked to know time it took in FD. I had same problem with water coming out gasket when done but realized two reasons: 1) the level was off, a little to forward so I adjusted it to be a tad bit lower on the back side, just enough for any standing water to flow back. 2) I’d forget to empty the defrosted water tub and when I would open the vacuum valve it would suck the water back in the chamber. I’ve needed to dump some dried product due to this because water would splash on the tray. I too, like the clear gasket to see what’s going on. Thanks again.

[@bhorn2489]

Have u tried to dilute it per instructions on can if so how did it turn ou

[@SchoolReports]

Yes I have and yes it works. But it doesn't work better and there is more water to take out. I trying for the balance of minimum water without blowing up like a sticky, orange juice balloon.

[@twicebestgirls8193]

What temperature in vacuum drying and for how long did you do it?

[@slayspedicure5347]

Does it have to be frozen before adding to the machine, or can you add into tray still liquidity?

[@SchoolReports]

It depends on the machine. With the current model the rack is level, so yes you could absolutely put the pans into the freeze dryer then pour in the liquid. Lots of people do it this way. However, with some of the previous models the rack, and therefore the trays, are tilted towards the back and liquids will spill out. Also, I prefreeze almost everything (usually in 7 x 7' pans) to reduce freeze dryer freeze time.

[@joy7822]

I thougdht it was mac and cheese at first. Ooooh freeze dry mac and cheese. Do that video

[@SchoolReports]

In the photo it does look a lot like Mac & Cheese. 😁 Freeze dried Mac & Cheese is good! Freeze Drying Macaroni & Cheese kzbin.info/www/bejne/sHvHhKaDmdepadU Freeze Drying - The Next 50 Batches - Rehydrating Test of Chef'Store Frozen Mac & Cheese kzbin.info/www/bejne/aqe3ipZ4f8ehrq8 Freeze Drying - The Next 50 Batches - 30 lbs of Molly's Kitchen Macaroni and Cheese kzbin.info/www/bejne/pnewe6utf9Kjhas Rehydrating a Bag of Macaroni & Cheese (Molly's Kitchen from Chef'Store) kzbin.info/www/bejne/fnmanqqnhq5-d8k

[@twicebestgirls8193]

Can i have an alternative to a vacuum dryer

[@Bubbletruckwindowcleaning]

How long can you store the oj freeze dried?

[@SchoolReports]

I don't know. We've only had ours for 3 1/2 years. There should be nothing that can "go bad" so it should be good for 20 or 30 years.

[@mimiphuongdo]

Thank you - May God bless you

[@hindsight2022]

Why did you add water before putting in a machine that removes water .... Lol

[@SchoolReports]

That's really a great question! Orange juice concentrate has too much sugar in it to dry without bubbling up. (see the first 15 seconds) So I thought I needed to add enough water to the concentrate so it would have a lower sugar to water ratio and therefore less likely to act like a balloon. I found an article titled, Gefriertrocknung von Orangensaft fiir die HersteLLung von Referenzmaterialien, (The freeze-drying of orange juice for the preparation of reference materials) from the '80s, about freeze drying orange juice, that helped confirmed that I was on the right track and, more importantly, that it could be done. By adding the amount of water I did, the bubbles tended to break before growing enough to hit the next shelf up.

[@alexa.davronov1537]

@@SchoolReports Have you tried to slow down the process to see if bubbling stops?

[@SchoolReports]

I did try to slow it down by lowering the tray heater setting in the freeze dryer to as low as 90 degrees F. It helped a little but not enough to make it worth while and increased the dry time a lot. I think that the problem is that when I prefreeze the orange juice it separates a little and leaves a sugary layer on top. Next time I'm going to try just flipping the prefrozen OJ slabs upside down on the freeze dry trays. Or maybe stir it while it prefreezes, like making ice cream.

[@alexa.davronov1537]

​@@SchoolReports Keep us updated lol. Thanks for sharing.

[@curiousqueen2108]

How do you rehydrate this?

[@SchoolReports]

Just add water and mix. It could even be done right in the bag, if it's bagged in a big enough bag. Here is a video of rehydrating one of these bags of OJ. kzbin.info/www/bejne/rZeZi3SJhcecerc

[@curiousqueen2108]

@@SchoolReports thanks sir! I'm medical technology students and in blood bank subject there is an approach called lyophilization or freeze-drying. Im having a hard time imagining what exactly happening in that process and your video pop up when I search at least I have idea already even if its not blood being bfreeze dry. Thanks

[@wintexintlk2374]

Is it dried using Vacuum?

[@SchoolReports]

Yes, a vacuum to

[@Floie.FormerlyLeungbabe_Oscar]

Why do you do this. What do you use it for??

[@SchoolReports]

It's for long term storage without the need for a freezer - e.g. camping or emergencies. Rehydrating the orange juice kzbin.info/www/bejne/rZeZi3SJhcecerc

[@Floie.FormerlyLeungbabe_Oscar]

SchoolReports wow! Thanks! If rehydrating orange juice isn’t in this video I’m about to click on I’ll be back lol because I don’t kno what that means and I’m definitely interested. Thank you so much for responding and what u teach!

[@Floie.FormerlyLeungbabe_Oscar]

It was the title. 😂😂😂😂😂

[@carolynmoody9460]

👍

[@naqibnasa3787]

how do you know when to stop?

[@SchoolReports]

The Harvest Right freeze dryer machine/software is automatic and pretty much knows when it is done.

[@jaymaganatv90210]

Like it

[@helpwithfoodstorage5943]

O.J. Interesting.

[@kaycorea8229]

Wow

[@FrancisR420]

Lools delish