French Rifle Ammunition: 8mm Lebel and 7.5mm French

[@grahamr4916]

“Everyone went to a spritzer” Italy: *hides in the corner*

[@astridvallati4762]

So did The Netherlands, and Greece.

[@MrXxHunter]

@@justforever96 Point blanc shooting range. You don’t have to adjust your sight by so much compared to a round nosed bullet. It makes shooting way easier for the average soldier that isn’t a superb marksman.

[@LeMeowAu]

​@@MrXxHunter bro let him figure out it needs to be pointy, not round, because round is like a dick and make enemy smile and laugh

[@MrXxHunter]

@@LeMeowAu True

[@steeltalon2356]

I've never seen a wall socket so high up before. Fascinating.

[@ryanwilson_canada]

I can beat that. My basement wall sockets are about 6.5' up the wall. Lol, the builder got lazy and didn't frame the foundation, so just put them up above ground level where the house is framed.

[@myparceltape1169]

@@ryanwilson_canada It will take a lot of floodwater to short your circuit.

[@ryanwilson_canada]

9ft of water if that happens I have other issues lol

[@KB-5.Feldartillerie-Regiment]

Must be French

[@BopLouie]

@Edgar Cairo stupid message

[@TheBurg229]

Note for anyone trying to reload 8mm Lebel: Do not try to full length size a 8mm Lebel cartridge. The chambers are oversized and will fireform the cartridge. Full sizing will overstretch the brass and drastically reduce case life (as well as require pesky trimming). Just use the neck sizer and reserve those cartridges for their specific guns.

[@DevinMoorhead]

Paper packets tied up with string?...This is one of my favorite things.

[@iskandartaib]

GREY paper packages tied up with string. It wasn't so long ago that the post office would not accept parcels unless they were tied up with string.

[@iskandartaib]

@Mack Sarnie Except in The Sound of Music the packages were brown.

[@iskandartaib]

@Mack Sarnie I don't think so.

[@george2113]

There was a time when you could ship children by us mail/postal

[@carlwilson4425]

"...logistically inferior..." Perfect phrase, perfect description.

[@mikeryan9479]

This is the first time I've posted a comment on your show but I just have to say how much I enjoyed this video !!!! Really ! I learnt so much in just 18 minutes !! This is why a became a patron supporter!! Love the show, love the content, love the history ! Thank you Ian & team

[@ForgottenWeapons]

Thanks!

[@nathanvargas7281]

"That translates into my ammunition falling over."

[@kmawnster]

😂😂

[@bobbertgrobbert4]

"Sacre bleu! Mon ammunition! Elle a fait!"

[@Darkaan13]

Native english speakers trying to say something french is one of the best things to ear when you're a native french speaker, Ian will always make me giggle with his pronouciation! Awesome video!

[@danieltaylor5542]

Wrapped up in paper tied up with string, this is one of Ian's favorite things!

[@colsoncustoms8994]

Oh man, really hoping you guys end up doing more ammunition videos like this. Thanks for the content.

[@Omnihil777]

The ball D ammo looks so elegant, almost artistic.

[@ashnalia]

Thanks ian for putting such effort in describing french firearms :) keep up the good work, as a frenchman, it teaches me much !

[@ThorneyedWT]

Great overview. More stuff like this, please.

[@jabber51]

brown paper packages tied up with string, these are a few of my favorite things

[@lumox7]

When the dog bites , when the bee stings, when I'm feeling sad. I simply remember my favorite things. And the I don't fell so bad.

[@lumox7]

I don't feel so bad neither.

[@burningsporkdeath]

Thank you Ian for taking something that I was ambivalent about (French bolt actions) and making it very interesting.

[@johnharvey5412]

Burning Spork of Doom I echo this sentiment

[@gixxerfixxer4159]

Daniel Allan I got interested when watching The Mummy (1999). I was really interested in those WW1 era french firearms. The movie had the 1886 Lebel rifle and 1873 Chamelot-Delivgne revolver (Brendan Fraser looked so badass dual wielding those things).

[@cramcrud]

Is there some kind of KZbin award for the most civil comment section? Forgotten Weapons has seriously got to be one of the best.

[@NewEnglandLyle]

An armed society is a polite society.. haha

[@RememberPele]

Shut the fuck up tom

[@old_guard2431]

A wise man does not argue with Gun Jesus.

[@ianklausing700]

I never had an appreciation for French rifles until I started watching your videos, Ian. Thankyou for the education.

[@fort809]

@danemon8423 there’s a reason that loss gets remembered, it was pretty damn embarrassing lol

[@YounesBoussouar-su7qk]

@danemon8423 bro's been quiet since this dropped

[@OrtadragoonX]

@danemon8423 the US and the French and the Japanese.

[@simonthesultan2159]

Don't you mean WW1 (not 2) at around 6:00 when talking about ball D? Anyway great vid as usual

[@ForgottenWeapons]

Yes, I did.

[@dmw1262]

Of all the gun bloggers I have watched, you are by far the best spoken and most knowledgeable I have seen.

[@tisFrancesfault]

I always wondered why French used giant clips for their machine guns, instead of belts.

[@exploatores]

Me too, I don´t think magazines is a good Idea on a MG and a clip is even worst.

[@jackandersen1262]

tisFrancesfault there weren’t any metal belts. The cloth belts are quite sensitive to temperature and humidity (unlike the metal clips), the belts can be linked while the gun is firing, and when using the guns as a team one does not experience a significant loss in fire sustainability. Still the French will develop linked strips for aerial and tank use during WW1.

[@TheGearhead222]

The 8mm Lebel has a horrible case design, which does not lend itself well to feeding, besides being a rimmed round. Still, it was the first commercially successful smokeless powder round, and this changed MANY things in WWI, including uniform color, believe it or not!-John in Texas

[@MrReded69]

The funny thing is the Hotchkiss company had a single link metallic belt as an option as early as 1896 but most buyers found it too expensive to buy or produce on their own.

[@rogainegaming6924]

@@TheGearhead222 it really does continue to amaze me just how fucking HORRIBLE the 8mm lebel was. I'm not sure that there is a worse caliber out there actually adopted as the primary round for a military like the Lebel was

[@iskandartaib]

Can't remember exactly when it was but those Hotchkiss feed strips (with the accompanying rounds of 8mm Lebel) were common at gun shows. And coincidentally, at the same time similar Hotchkiss strips of 7.7 Arisaka were also available. I ended up with a strip of the Arisaka ammunition, it came is some sort of hard cardboard case.

[@jessesands4099]

Great French Ammunition collection Ian!😀🔫🗼🇫🇷

[@henrynelson11]

Ian's marketing scheme for French firearms has got me all hyped up looking for a Lebel Rifle to get haha

[@bfgivmfith]

We cannot have a world leader that can count to ten backwards, and yet you comfortably share an immense amount of information without a teleprompter or cue cards. Unbelievable! I really enjoy learning from you. You are like that one teacher that you remember and or cared about from school. :)

[@dazaspc]

Thanks for the video on the French ammunition. Always looking forward to your videos that cover ammunition in more than passing detail.

[@chocolatechipwookiee6472]

I love to see this kind of content on your channel. I enjoy the way you explain the 'dry' basics behind stuff like the absolut chaos the French ammunition poses.

[@lizardodavinci]

I looked at the video name and was like 'how the hell do you make an 18.5 minute video about nothing but two rifle cartridges?' At the end of the video I'm still glued to the screen... Good job as always, Ian. You manage to make nearly forgotten trivia about obscure details intriguing and exciting. Hats off.

[@RichardW-III]

Thank you for your videos on the Berthier rifle and this one for its ammo. I have my father's Berthier (never known it to be fired and I am 55) and just dug it out of my closet. It is a "Delaunay Belleville Mle 1907-15 (EDB 1917)" with "N" stampings. While the rifle 100% needs a cleaning I think it is intact. I removed the bolt, the firing pin and spring - they all appear to be in good order. Granted before even trying to fire a round I'll take it to a proper gunsmith so they can professionally inspect and clean it. I think I should be able to find one of those here in Texas 😉 Anyways, I got to wondering "what ammo" and this video is super awesome and I loved how you showed the Prvi Partizan ammo box ❤

[@briarus1000]

another great video! thanks, i never new how much innovation the french were putting into their bullets.

[@macstmanj3]

These cartridge discussions are fantastic!

[@colonthree]

When the Ian uploads a video, and the subject isn't guns~ That's AMMORE~

[@brianfuller5868]

Very interesting videos, Ian . I did not know some of these details. Seriously 7.5× 54 was a excellent cartridge.

[@streetrat6455]

Thank you very buch Iaan for this!! My dad "had" a couple of 8mm lebel berthier and never much ammo. Lately ive been hunting for ammo and didnt know anything about lebel, this video has helped me a ton!!! Thanks for pointing out PPU 8x50R lebel ammo and specs between N and D. I literally just saw 2 boxes of these at my local gun store but didnt buy them because of uncertainty. You just cleared up my confusion!

[@MM-bj4rl]

Perfect Video on this kind of french cartrigde, no bad for the prononciation and impressing an American who is interested in something other than 5.56M16

[@mattorama]

While you were working through the history of the rifles I was thinking that you needed to do a video on the history of the ammo. Did not disappoint. Thanks, Ian!

[@ooloncaluphid]

That problem with 8x57 in the 7.5x58mm chamber reminds me of an article I read about 30 years ago, in Guns & Ammo, I think, about a guy who managed to chamber a round of .250 Savage in a .243 chamber and blow up his pre-64 Model 70. About a year ago I had the opportunity to pick up a very nice Ruger M77 in .250 Savage for $450 but I passed on it, because if I owned it, I'd spend the rest of my waking life worrying about accidentally chambering a .250 in my.243.

[@Meldonator]

17:37 I think the French army kept using the 7.5 in their FRF1 for quite some times after they had the FA-MAS.

[@lephaytheo3098]

Your right but technically speaking it it was use by the gendarmerie not by the regular army

[@justinhemboorger1620]

Anyone else love the look of older round nosed early smokeless and black powder cartridges

[@cartridgegram]

As a Cartridge collector I've been hoping for Ian to do a video on cartridges!... Awesome

[@troycongdon]

Thank you for putting the time into making these videos. They are well presented and informative.

[@troy9477]

Great ibfo. I didn't realize there were quite so many versions of the 8x50. The 7.5 is an excellent modern cartridge. I got bit by the MAS 49/56 bug awhile back, so now i want one. I think we can have them in Kali, although the grenade launcher sights would probably have to come off. Great round though, with very usable ballistics. Great video as always. Thank you

[@andrewgates8158]

Not the sight. The spigot or spigot sleeve.

[@nucleargaz1]

Another great vid Ian! So watchable!!

[@VegasCyclingFreak]

Interesting history behind this cartridge, had no idea it had that much development and changes.

[@pterodactylhunter9275]

Eggs toast and forgotten weapons, the best way to start your day

[@secretbaguette]

🎶The best part of waking up🎶

[@Blech319]

Good one Ian. Keep up the WW1 stuff. Vietnam War-era and Cold War stuff appreciated too.

[@Jarastlad]

Désaleux, that's a hard one. Roughly phonetized in English : Dayzalu. Thanks for all that content as usual, higly interesting ! Why don't you pop by Belgium one of these days, FN's still running proud and there's still is a very renown arms manufacturer's school in Liège. That and the beer, cheese and chocolate of course, but that comes without saying !

[@williamprince1114]

I've got 100 rounds of boxer primed 7.5 MAS factory ammo and reloading dies to reload it ....... now I just need to acquire a MAS 36. Nothing weird about that, right?

[@pikeywyatt]

the content just gets better as Forgotten Weapons progresis. Thanks.

[@ednopers1]

Wow. Thanks Ian!

[@guillaumedarras]

Hello very nice video ^^ Maybe you forgot to say that balle D have one major inovation : a boat tail

[@ImInLoveWithBulla]

I just shot our 1886 Lebel for the first time this weekend. It shoots better than almost any gun we have. 10 rounds, 100 yards, every single shot of mine inside the 8 ring after my dad shot his 10 and gave me a basic idea of where to aim. It shoots high, like every military gun we own.

[@TheGearhead222]

Ian-Great video as always. Didn't the French also perfect the jacketed round? Remember reading that awhile back. John in Texas

[@Rinzler0001]

This was very interesting and informative, thank you Ian.

[@pmodd]

I guess the French actually had something in common with the Austrians back then; brown paper packages tied up with string were things that they both considered a favourite.

[@turdgoblin6113]

Absolutely love the 8mm lebel!

[@Metalgearmadness]

I have a K11 in 7.5x55mm and a MAS 36 in 7.5x54mm. I really like 7.5x54 its fun to reload and uses the 7.62x54R crimper.

[@MrReded69]

Many people say that the 7.5x54mm M1929 MAS was just an unlicensed copy of 7.5x55mm Swiss. Just like the 7.5x57mm M1924 MAS was an unlicensed copy of 8x57mm Mauser. Oh those clever French fellows!

[@NewEnglandLyle]

@@MrReded69 will a MAS 36 chamber and shoot 7.5 x 55 Swiss? I am having the Dickens of a time trying to find 7.5x54 in a soft point to use for hunting. There is plenty of FMJ on the market right now, but nothing for hunting.

[@simonmagnum7821]

The reaserch was run by a guy named Gal Desaleux, who immediately started regretting ever taking part. (Little bilingual bonus-joke on how your first pronunciation makes it sound like "Gal Désolé", which translates as "Gal Sorry") Really good work as it has been on your whole channel, you always show serious research and make the presentations interesting. Every time I watch one of your videos, I end up wishing I could buy one of the firearms presented, but that would be unreasonable.

[@Daemascus]

PPU, making all the fun stuff.

[@tominva4121]

Ian - You have any interest in .30-06 military cartridges made in France for the M1 Garands/Browning MGs we gave them? I have a large collection of various headstamps. Not well thought of ammo I have absolutely no intention of ever firing it.

[@ianmacfarlane1241]

It says a lot for Ian that I don't shoot, also I'm unlikely to ever shoot a WW1 French rifle, and on top of that I'm unlikely to buy ammunition for my rifle that I don't own, and YET I can happily sit and watch an 18 minute long video about French cartridges of the late 19th / early 20th century. Not only that, but I enjoyed it.

[@petesampson4273]

Ian is one of the very best commentators on KZbin. I think I would enjoy listening to him read a laundry list or a recipe for "instant water". BTW. I have the best recipe for instant water. It goes something like... "Take empty vessel. Fill with clean, cool, water. Season to taste then drink." My recipe sounds silly but Ian could make it epic!

[@Taurevanime]

I really appreciate this video on cartridge development. Do you think you may do such a thing again in the future? I certainly would love more like this.

[@lkmuks]

Now this is my jam ammunition history ASMR 10/10

[@piotrwoznica9100]

Correct me if I'm wrong - didn't you by chance shoot "incorrect" ammo in one of your old Turkish Berthier rifle videos? It seems as if you were having trouble racking the bolt into battery.

[@ForgottenWeapons]

Yes, back before I know better. :)

[@piotrwoznica9100]

Nice :D Next we know that Bannerman conversion Mosin-Nagant might have well blown up in your face (I'm glad it didn't).

[@danielschnopp-wyatt3578]

Great post. Let's have more ammo history. Peace and thanks.

[@michaelpierson7256]

I have 2 cases of lebel ammo in hotchkiss feed strips that ive heard long ago was high pressure, before i new this i used it in a Remington 1907/15. I later found a crack in the rcvr on the bottom, ive no idea how long its been there. The gun also had the typical rem. oversized chamber. It was a sporter w shortened bbl so its stripped of the rcvr now (RIP) as soon as i saw the feed tray on your table i new the answer was coming (ball N) neck turn the shells maby? it was $42 a case

[@ringowunderlich2241]

The 30 round feed strips were also used by the Hotchkiss M1909 light machine gun or "Benét Mercié" as it was called in US service. Just for the completion. ;)

[@ForgottenWeapons]

A whole series of Hotchkiss-based guns used them, in eluding the US 1909, the French 1900 and 1914, the Japanese Type 92, Turkish 1922/4, etc.

[@ringowunderlich2241]

Yes. Did they use the same type of strip for a different cartridge?

[@cortanathelawless1848]

Thanks for using metric too

[@puebespuebes8589]

3:21 thanks for the subtitle, im french and misheard "general sorry"

[@stjepanlucman242]

Kako zanimljiv video. Svaka čast

[@duanequam7709]

Excellent presentation.

[@JRT176]

Sounds like Ian is learning French :)

[@rollover4894]

PPU factory is next town over for me so if you want i can hook you up

[@ForgottenWeapons]

Tell them to start making 7.65mm French Long! :)

[@LeFeuauxpoudres]

Tell them that it's impossible to find today in France! and impossible to import :/

[@genebohannon8820]

Gun Jesus as always answers more questions than where ever asked!

[@projectcentral001]

He mentioned the 5.56 and 300 blackout problem and I ran into that. Long story short I dropped the mag out, dropped the 300 into the chamber, pulled the trigger and broke the extractor, stuck a bullet about an inch from the muzzle. Didnt blow up the gun (thank God for bull barrels) and about burned my leg with gas from the tube

[@judgedhades8583]

Love this channel

[@hazakdds7366]

Great info again. Thanks Ian.

[@TiepilotKV]

More videos on different ammunution types adopted by militaries around the world would be cool.

[@kronos22002]

We found a bunch of the unsued 1936 versions in our shed in France. The N stamp on the round is now clear, thanks. Lastly my idiot BIL proudly announced to all our local friends they were 303s- he got the hump when I point out his obvious mistake.

[@HistoryWith_Mark]

Ian, should you read this than I need to let you know that I have learned a great deal on different weapons and how they work. if I hadn't have found this channel, I would still be the ordinary kid at school. thank you for educating me yours sincerely, Beast0Gaming

[@jameshealy4594]

I would have loved having access to this in high school, sadly no youtube in the late nineties (so old). Enjoy not being ordinary, it's the way to go. :)

[@astridvallati4762]

The confusion over "bronze" and brass is a nomenclature one. 95/5 is "Gilding Metal", 90/10 is called in the US trade " Manufacturing Bronze" --- a clear misnomer ( no Tin in 90/10 BRASS). In Europe, deriving from a Dutch Indies term, both 90/10 and 95/5 Alloys are called TOMBAC/K. DocAV

[@realmenshoot3085]

Brown paper packages tied up with string, these are a few of my favorite things.🎶🎵🎶

[@kirktrof]

I have some French .30-06 that has the groove on the head like on the 8mm Lebel

[@binbashbuddy]

15:00 -- An unintentional problem? As opposed to an intentional problem?

[@DNchap1417]

2 questions: 1) in your experience, how does 8mm Lebel compare to the Mauser in terms of velocity, recoil and power? 2-) How does 7.5 French compare to 308, 7,62 Russian, 7,5 Swiss and even 303 Brit? I did not mention accuracy because that depends mostly on the shooter but you can add it if you deem it important.

[@SO-iu1sj]

Question 1 : from my point of view, shooting a 8mm Lebel cartridge in French Mousqueton 86 (lebel rifle) is more pleasent than a 8x57 in a K98 (I have both and I am triying to be objective despite the fact that I am french...). This may be due to the profil of the cartridge. In terms of velocity and power, there is no clear difference : nearly the same velocity and nearly the same weight of bullets when using Partizan 327' bullets (200gr) for my Lebel and Sellier Bellot 323' bullets (196 gr) for my k98. Things change when using monometalic bullets "Balle D". In France, such bullets are sometimes found in the far corner of some garage. ;) . Less recoil and more accuracy.

[@bassman3235]

Will you do a video on the Hotchkiss m1914 machine gun?

[@ForgottenWeapons]

Eventually, yes.

[@ringowunderlich2241]

I also like to see one on the Arsenal Puteaux APX 1905 and the St. Etienne Mle 1907 machine guns, if you get your hands on some of them, because they are more of a forgotten weapon, than the Hotchkiss M 1914.

[@randywatson8347]

Some like French wine and cheeses. Ian loves French ammo.

[@johnmc703]

Very informative, Ian. Have you done or considered a similar video on the different ammunition used by the Japanese?

[@sachaweijdisch9690]

It was captain Desaleux, and the 8mm Lebel balle D was the first spitzer bullet in the world.

[@petesampson4273]

Hi, guys. I'm a big fan of Forgotten Weapons and I'm a super-huge-mega fan of military aircraft. I know that the French used "Vickers" machine guns on their WW1 fighters because they didn't have a better, locked breach, machine gun for synchronizing to shoot through the propeller disk. My question is... did they use the .303 British round in their fighters or use Vickers machine guns using 8mm Lebel? Either one would make sense. If they used the .303 they could use common stocks of ammo with the Brits and, if they used 8mm, they could depend on their own ammunition stores without depending on the Brits. I'll be ding-danged if I can find a definitive answer to this question and would really like to know; one way or another. Thanks!

[@GunFunZS]

While some stupidly assembled 300 BO loads can chamber in a .223 gun, 1) this usually requires stupid levels of force AND a weak crimp. (This isn't the high tech kind of telescoping ammo, it's the shoddily made kind) 2) these are only due to cartridges loaded with projectiles not intended for the caliber, most notably 30 carbine bullets, and the 147 grainers intended for 7.62 nato. For both of those projectiles, the ogive of the bullet can mimic the shoulder of a .223/556 case but generally very over length. Simply using appropriate projectiles completely alleviates this potential risk. With the right projectiles, the bullet would hit the lands with the bold a good quarter inch out of battery. I always make a point of comparing any load side by side with a .223 and making sure there is no way to chamber it incorrectly. IMO, this is worth being careful about but the risk is largely overblown. There is far more real world risk of people putting 20 ga in a 12, and 9mm in a 40 S&W, both of which happen quite frequently. I practice having distinct magazines for 300 BO and avoid storing the guns & accessories in the same places. I also avoid mix and matching on a single range trip, at least without a little effort at keeping them separate. Gear that has room for human error has room for improvement. But that said, I can't help but think that the people who get this wrong would tend to get other stuff wrong too, and will hurt themselves one way or another.

[@ScreamingSturmovik]

how do 7.5 french rifles handle modifications to 7.62 nato? I've read that MAS-36 rifles redone for it work but not very well

[@ForgottenWeapons]

If done properly, it can be fine - the French made some experimental 49/56 rifles in 7.62 NATO.

[@puppetguy8726]

Imagine him being actually named Desolé and introducing himself as "Je suis (Géneral) Desolé" 😄

[@kirktrof]

I have some 1960’s French manufacture 30-06, which has the groove as well. Did they do that on all rifle ammo?

[@timothytietz9194]

Dont shoot this. Cases crack.

[@blueband8114]

Superb info.

[@Spitsz01]

Really nice to have a bit of Hotchkiss

[@fdsdh1]

The biggest problem with the 8mm lebel isn't that it has a rim and is tapered, it has a double taper which means it would never work in a box magazine

[@Ducza]

hey Ian would like to see videos like this 1 for german,us,british,russian ... ammo 2 but at any point please share more of your toughts about 7mm mauser

[@grantdavis1928]

Just picked up a MAS 36 at a gun show. Would like to get some 7.5 French but I can’t seem to find any available

[@linusbol]

Enciclopedico ed esaustivo. as usual

[@fleurdelispens]

Wait, does this mean we're finally getting shooting footage of an rsc 1917?