"From Extraction to Production" spreadsheet impressions & breakdown - Gila Scope Skin Giveaway!

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IGN - Weaselly Eventon
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Eve Online is a space-based, persistent world massively multiplayer online role-playing game developed and published by CCP Games. Players of Eve Online can participate in a number of in-game professions and activities, including mining, piracy, manufacturing, trading, exploration, and combat.

[@eventon9372]

Hope you enjoyed the rant! Don't forget to comment to enter the Gila Skin giveaway! Let me know what you guys think of the changes so far...

[@Hammahlovesyou]

Oh boy here we go, thanks Eventon, this was hard to digest and this is definitely gonna help 😁

[@Arjunvandemataram]

Thanks a lot for this extensive breakdown of the changes. Loved this video a lot :)

[@pmman1783]

Thank you for breaking this down!

[@Pappillon2007]

Its crazy what you have done with info in spreadsheat.. Gj man

[@MsDakota7]

Apologies for the long post but just my points I ran into on the test server: - waste mechanic seems easy enough to deal with, though it gets reduced from the rock first before you get your share. Meaning it is possible you will lose the last bit of a rock to the waste. The amount you waste is directly correlated to the amount you mine per cycle and the waste multiplier. Basically it goes as follows: cycle amount multiplied by the waste multiplier. Generally I like this as it makes stuff more realistic but newbros and low tier fits are no longer welcome on most mining ops because of it. You'd basically be limited to just regular asteroid belts which have low worth in the first place. - all exhumers are losing some EHP, on paper it sounds like they are becoming more tanky but in reality somehow all of them lose some. I hope this is an oopsy on the side of CCP..... - Exhumers generally get a buff to their mining, the increase depends on your setup though. I have seen an increase of up to double possible with the right numbers. I cannot test all setups though as I do not have a rorqual on the main server. However from what I saw, the top end of mining with a hulk(with both implants and faction upgrades) and rorqual buff, you can achieve about 67 m3/s which to put in perspective is three times as effective as my current setup. So the powerful rorqual mining has been replaced by powerful hulk mining if you want to shell out the money Generally though, for hulks expect between a 60-85% increase depending on setup. Mackinews become as effective as the current hulk on moon ore, asteroid and anomalie ore. Skiffs become more defensive and gain more damage. Maybe they could be used for ratting now. This is positive for us - The compression mechanic is a mess on the test server, it takes a stupid amount of skills points, seems a little overcomplicated and forces people into space a whole lot more. It may not be worth the risk in most cases as it seems less risky to just use a freighter to move raw stuff around. I think CCP needs to look more at this before it becomes decent and less risky then hauling uncompressed. - Mining drones as they are on the test server, should just be removed from the game. I have nothing positive to say about this part except for the fact rorquals have become support ships now. The excavator drones are just about as effective as a mid tier hulk now. So it can still pull in a decent amount but it will not dominate anymore. - The compact industrial core, pretend it does not exist. The orca does not have the tank to sit on a belt for 5 minutes and it is a marginal increase. On top of that, it is a separate skills from the regular industrial core. To put it all in perspective, tier 1 compact core + orca at level 5 is about as effective as level 4 rorqual without siege. Tier 2 compact + orca is equal to a level 5 rorqual. Tier 2 compact is about the same skills points needed to go from rorqual 4 to 5 if not a little more. - Double belt size is nice, but on average you will probably lose 1/3 to the waste mechanic unless you also can type B crystals on the belt. Generally I think we should go for type A on the most valuable stuff and type B on the rest to min max between value and time or just accept the loss and go with type B for the sake of time as mining more means we also could tackle more belts. - I do not like the new gas and ice holds. On most ships were the matter the most(orca, porpoise, rorqual), they are smaller then the ore hold and do not scale with level. On all other ships they are at best the same size as the ore hold. Valiant attempt to fix the problems with gas and ice hauling but utterly failed. In general with the increase in mining for most ships, the holds seem a bit small now. Especially the hulk. It gained 33% more while double the mining capability is easily possible(in fact triple compared to my current setup)

[@spartan456]

The compression mechanics seem the most backwards to me. It doesn't really make any sense that a spaceship would somehow be MORE EFFICIENT at compressing ores than a dedicated structure anchored in space, like a Citadel. What's up with that? Even the Porpoise will sport the ability to compress ores now, are we to believe that a dinky little ship like that is somehow better at compressing ores than a gigantic megastructure like a Javelin? I fully expect CCP to "tiericide" the compression modules and skills in a few months or a year after this update goes live. You are right -- it is far too complicated. There's too many different variations of the compression modules, too many skills for all of them, and to boot, each one is only useful for ONE specific type of ship (Orca or Rorqual). This seems extremely counterintuitive to wanting a more balanced approach to how all of these mining ships should work. Instead there should be two general purpose compression modules (Tech 1 and Tech 2), with just a few primary skills you can use to optimize them for specific things, with some further secondary skills to optimize them even further, eventually making them good at all ore, ice, and gas types no matter what ship you use it on. This would vastly simplify them, quite possibly still have similar skill investments, but would be applicable to both the Orca and the Rorqual.

[@MsDakota7]

@@spartan456 Indeed, they should have made a tier 1 and tier 2 variant only and gave the different ships different role bonusses to accommodate one ship being better at it compared to another. Also to get all the skills needed, you are looking at easily 10-15 mil skill point investment as is on the test server. Really they just want to make ganking a rorqual and orca easier while they are already stupid easy to gank.

[@spartan456]

@@MsDakota7 Yup, when I first read that the Orca was getting a "mini" industrial core I was excited. The prospect of being able to compress ore and ice in what is basically a smaller Rorqual sounded awesome. But then they just had to throw in the monkey's paw with screwing around with compression mechanics. I like the idea that compression is no longer 1:1, what I don't like are the complicated mechanics behind how many additional modules and skills you need to make it work. They could have easily kept it at Tech 1 and Tech 2 Industrial Core, and Tech 1 and Tech 2 variants of Gas/Ore/Ice compressors, with an added set of skills to make compression better. Want better return on ice compression? Train the skill for it. Want better return on moon ore compression? Train the skill for it. Simple. The Rorqual could be the king of moon and other asteroid ores, while the Orca could excel at compressing Ice, and the Porpoise could excel at compressing gas. These ships would STILL be capable of compressing the other materials (the Rorqual being the only one that can do moons), just at a lower efficiency than their specifically bonused counterparts. This would give each ship a super specific role to fill that already compliments the tasks people generally use for these ships in the first place. Nobody is trying to mine moons with Orca support in low or null, but most people are absolutely using them to deal with moons and ice in highsec. So give it a natural bonus to ice because that's mostly what people use it for. And the Porpoise is generally used to slip into wormholes. Compressing lucrative gasses from wormholes would be awesome, and you would STILL have the option of compressing other things too if you wanted to, just not as effectively. On the flipside, having all of these skills and new modules gives players MASSIVE amounts of flexibility. But it is still, ultimately, useless flexibility and just lots of added confusion. Orcas are primarily used in highsec, and the most lucrative things to mine in highsec are moons and ice. Fitting general purpose asteroid compressors to your Orca would be a terrible idea and a waste of SP. Nobody who values their time is hoovering up trash ores from belts in highsec with a fleet. Fitting Ice ones would benefit it greatly, but you would be unable to spec it for moon ore because that is reserved for the Rorqual. So why have the added options and flexibility in the first place? It's meaningless. Each ship really should be specifically bonused towards one type of compression. You can either squeeze as much out of that one specific bonus as you can with better skills, or try to generalize it a bit and devote some time and SP to making it less-bad at compressing non-bonused materials. This would be far more useful, eliminate any pointless complexity to the system, and keep existing ships in the roles they are already used for.

[@strange_Net]

Hey man, nice break down and one of Eves wonderfully relaxing songs. Do I get entered into the draw now lol???

[@jmh105]

I think overall the changes are good, I don't like however how the only real way to expand your personal mining output is to use a bunch of alts. Your choices before were to sit solo in an exhumer and paint a massive target on your back, or use an orca and trade profit for security. At this point if you didn't want to create and plex a bunch of mining alts, your only real option is a skiff or mackinaw, neither of which mine enough to justify not spending your time doing almost anything else. I just think there should be more options and goals other than "just make more accounts lmao" Ign: Jason Hodges

[@danieldowling567]

Hi there! For the rorqual Indy cores, there are actually two tables if you scroll down, the more updated values are there

[@steveeccleston2708]

Nice overview and emphasis on providing feedback!

[@renzojemati8459]

you made the canges clear for me with the spreadsheet, love how much time you put in this vid! Ign: Oswald IV

[@edinalewis4704]

Love the changes, after testing on Sisi, my mining yields are up 45%!!

[@williamvillar7134]

So they made changes to force Rorquals to leave the POS and be on-grid. No one did so they gave them a carrot by letting them drone mine and now the carrot is being taken away. The Hulk is still a shell of what it once was. So basically, go back to the old way of mining in barges/exhumers and don't compress.

[@peterwhite9546]

That endurance is looking spicy. I doubt I would even use it for mining now unless it gets a second turret slot, as it lost all of it's hull bonuses.

[@Wolf_Rayet]

i am back in eve after few years,so there is alot of new thing for me :)

[@InfiniteExistance]

Still fairly hard for me to form too much of an opinion of the proposed changes, until they are "finalized" I do think shacking things up can be good. Though I'd say people seem to have ignored the naming of these 3 ships... they are Command ships, they are support ships, so really they are more true to the naming. I don't know how it will change things for me. Also noticed almost no one is mentioning that some of the industrial resources have been halved. IGN: Pollastos Divinosi

[@creativefox6066]

We will adept ........ as always. So keep calm, this is a game. Thanks for the fit, Marith of Kazarith (ign).

[@Dosarphic]

This is why I think is cool to be Alpha clone, I mean you just have to care about Venture if the changes are good/bad :p And well as a new-to-eve player the changes that will happen will be mostly "normal" to me if I ever earn ISK for omega and start other things than Abyssals

[@hiroki_rinn]

Red Glowing Dust. 😁👍🏻. Miss that jukebox. Edit: CCP hasn’t wanted players to feel safe in-game since like 2008 or 9. The “safe” days were like 2003-2006. With that, if a ship could use a cloak, it will be by sacrificing something else. So you are either safe or efficient, not both. Edit2: The locked target and align nerfs. JFC. I hate mining in general these days due to the ganking endorsement from CCP, but now it’s even less enticing. Haha! And yup, the nerfs to the proc. “Oh, this can survive single catalyst assaults. Can’t have that.” Oh, CCP. 😩. Edit3: Drone HP reduction means easier for assailants to SB drones and take out the miners. This is completely moot for miners.

[@JohnSmith-ro2yb]

I think they are trying to kill the Rorq. But gas compression is going to make the price hit the floor. Keep it up

[@georgecooke2271]

I think it helps lower the entry bar to efficient mining, not everyone has time to save up for an Orca or Rorq for solo mining outside of large corp handouts, and also reduces risk slightly for those newer miners. I do wonder about how this affects ganking as regular mining ships present a nice squishy target vs an Orca with drones. Loving the new compression changes, and the yield increases for Ice mining is a big win for me ;) Good video, thanks again

[@marius666]

Ign: Buck Wilde Really liking this mining change. Wish I bought and held more hulks when first announced.

[@modjoclips]

i'm really not sure about the overall implications of those changes... all in all it pretty much looks like a shift in use of certain ships but not a whole lot of materials injected into the eco system... love the fact that the Endurance could be Astero 2.0 though :) IGN: Lahara

[@eventon9372]

thanks for the comment. Unfortunately that was an error on CCP's part. I guess the endurance won't have the covert ops cloak :(

[@modjoclips]

@@eventon9372 rly? aw that's really unfortunate :(

[@zedrikoneve4450]

Thanks for putting the time and effort into all of this analysis. The endurance analysis is interesting - it will be interesting to see how that pans out. In general, I like change and I think CCP has been doing a good job of making changes and iterating. I hope they have time to iterate on this before it is rolled out and then afterwards, I hope they monitor and iterate fast. Overall I am pretty positive about the changes as a whole. (IGN Zedrikon)

[@MsDakota7]

Just a quick note about the procurer and skiff, seems they nerfed their buff already. On the test server they only have a 50% increase, not the 75% increase

[@Corew1n]

Maybe I missed it if you brought it up, but while you were going through this I noticed the Hulk "tank" changes are really far more of a nerf. Note that they completely removed the 4% to shield resists per level on exhumers. So even factoring in the new +5% base, that's a shift from a Fully Skilled Exhumer Pilot having 20% EM, 36% TH, 52% KN, and 60% EX out of the gate, to an ABYSMAL 5 / 25 / 45 / 55. It was already bad, but let's make it worse? What were they even attempting to solve here? What was the theoretical gameplay that drove this?

[@4LXK]

Thanks for the in depth analysis. I agree on the uniformity being boring - Procurer is my main miner and the drone update is great but nerfing the shield is a bit unfortunate - if there is no similarily tanky fit i will likely switch to another barge

[@acebulletman7389]

So basically 15% more ore from the hulk? Any thoughts about whether the trade-off between tech II (with 3 mining laser upgrades) vs ORE strip miners (with 3 frostlines in the low slots) has changed? Eve name: Anzore Pours Thiesant. Also, as I understand waste: the amount you pull in with every cycle is not affected by waste. The amount left in the belt is.

[@mrl0lz]

IGN: MrRemy - So what is the end game for HS miners now? Looking at sisi it looks like they nerfed all barge/exhumer tanks through killing midslots. You eluded to it taking only a few catalysts to take you out, and nothing got better in this regard. Now that the orca is gone what should we be looking at going into now for chill HS mining?

[@audiojake8]

You don't chill, CCP has wanted to kill solo mining for a long time. They finally have a lead developer that went through with it.

[@TECHN01200]

My question now is why use mining drones unless you have an Orca? Time to extract those skills or find the cash for an Orca...

[@J3AD]

its seems many casual industrial players are really ticked off? have to dig into this more, why I'm checking out all these post.

[@timomarkson]

Who do we complain about the capital industrial ship (Rorqual) cannot use a industry cyno

[@wulfnorancharia4553]

Waste mechanic just means you mine the same amount as pre patch but will be able to mine in the same place for longer if you use the T2 miners. Thats without taking into account any new mining yield increases which means more ore per time period and a longer lasting mine field. ign Wulfnor

[@HatCake]

I feel like theres very little incentive now to buy a prospect over an endurance; why can it fit a covops cloak now..?

[@dianeradragosha9938]

This show is a great explanation of the new changes. The changes are all expected instead of definitive but the detailed breakdown offers great information in the broad concepts. IGN : Dianera Dragosha

[@CB-oe2ke]

Meh. I like that they are changing the mining. When I started I tried mining but once I realized how little I was making I decided to change to WH ratting. Now I wonder if mining is going to get more for it. I really don't want to fly an Orca though.

[@maudit00]

Just getting into mining on my alt so looks like changes are good for me but not for miner that are using orca and rorq. Tbh that should be for fleet mining anyway so yeah, dont really know what to think. Just wondering how changes will impact ship market. IGN: Kajek

[@UCanNotUseThisID]

Well this will be interesting... I guess. I see more orca hunting coming. Dark Dreadnought

[@EskaronVokonen]

Thanks for the black background of the spreadsheet! 2 Days later I still feel it is a nerf for the Procurer and Skiff, as they got less buff than the others barges/exhumers. I don't like the removal of the mid slots, atain, even if they increase base hp the results is even or slightly less, while the oters can get better ehp thanks to the new mid slot. Also they made the Procurer and Skiff so slow, and the align time is slower than before, not better (ref 24:50 you'll see when you go on SiSi and simulate the fits). And the drone change was not necessary, I like the 50% bonus to drone hp more than an additionnal 25% damage (survivability). - Sold 4 of my 5 Skiffs. I'll keep one, it already have the rigs and use it regularly. The 4 others where still packaged and bought only recently when I seized an opportunity at 211mil. Sold around 250mil, maybe I should have wait, but my perception is that it didn't get a buff overall compared to the other 2, so I don't see why demands would increase for the Skiff. I preferred to cash in for a small profit. - Sold 6 of my 10 Endurance. All packaged and can't fly them yet anyway. I had bought them on opportunity around 18-19mil, sold at 25-26mil today. Don't know what I'll do with the remaining, maybe keep one in hangar and I'll put a sell order later today (sold the first ones on existing buy orders) - For the Procurer, I have 2 that I'm using from time to time, located in stations with mining agents to work on faction standings, and have 15 of them still packaged, most of which I have actually manufactured pre-indy change this Spring. With the waste mechanic these mining agents are now a no go. They not only need to double the size of the mining field for the mining missions, they also need to get rid of the "waste first" mechanic. I'll plan to sell the Procurers, maybe keep the 2 that are already fitted. I don't want the new change to happen, hurts me too much. With the crystal type C you'll see a lot of gankers alt destroying the small living of miners, so in the end Scarcity is not over, depending on the scale of the wastage that will take place. I despise the waste mechanic overall. Now, I'm not going to say it on the forums, because of the fanboys and gankers trolls, but Thursday, before the dev blog, I was honestly considering subbing my 3 other empire alts (Amarr, Gallente and Minmatar), which had reached their 5M SP limit at the end of the Summer. I'm looking to remove the "data" package of my phone bill since the contract has expired, and the saving would allow me to buy the subscription for 3 accounts. But the dev blog Friday convinced me otherwise. I'm stuck with a 1 year Omega on my main (till August 2022), so I cannot directly vote with my wallet with an unsub (I could only remove the auto re-bill), but I'm not going to congratulate CCP with new subs, that's for sure. The only good news is being able to get a refund on the Processing skills, which my main had to level 5 for the high sec ores, and level 4 for low sec ores. I had bought and injected the skill books for null sec ores, but had not yet trained them. I'll be able to redistribute the SP into combat skills, which I had lagging and the reason I struggled so much trying to do some of the events in the past few months. I hope they can also offer an option to refund the mining ships skills, as I'm also reconsidering this, even for basic needs of my industry needs. I'll just buy the minerals on the market, and do whatever other activity to get the isk. This would be a way for CCP to see how many people actualy don't like the change and vote their SP off the mining aspect of the game. I doubt CCP will consider this, but I'll ask anyway. IGN: Suki Vokkonen

[@Credon59]

Should be really interesting once they come out with the final release. I'm sure we're going to see waste reduction boosters, hope the can be manufactured and marketed. Thanks for the video and the chance to win. o7 ign: Credon

[@palatros1320]

Hmm....i think you need to make a video for 'best high sec solo mining' asap bro😅😅😅😅 I might buy an rorqual now👌 IGN: PALATROS LIGHTBRINGER

[@tetrik]

Controversial changes. Ign: Madla

[@emilm8603]

Feel like I'm too new at this to really have a feel for how changes like this impact the game. I have however gotten a feel for how the "scarcity" has impacted the game, and people have repeatedly told me how much cheaper Battlecruisers used to be. IGN: Inara Valentine

[@mileivines969]

Thx very much

[@InfiniteExistance]

Further along, the hammering of the Proc is sad lol really got smacked around lol

[@MrBraien]

Thanks for explaining the patch. Personally, I find the new mechanics of wasting very interesting and it looks like it is time to pack my solo miner orca and unpack my mining barge again. ign Bokral

[@NerotheSane]

Thanks for putting this all together! IGN Elhael Thiesant

[@steveeccleston6174]

Thx for a look at each of the ships and changes. Lots to digest. Ign MisterEman

[@trininox]

Well it used to be straightforward and profitable to mine..

[@generaltorfstecher8476]

Its just a nerf for newbies camouflaged as a Update. IGN: Infinite Perdition

[@atouchofa.d.d.5852]

👍

[@MsDakota7]

Truly a shame how fast you went over the compression and crystals, though again the excel sheet is not helpful for it. The compression mechanic has huge flaws in the sense it forces your rorquals to just sit on grid doing just compression and not much else. The amount of different compression modules you need leaves little room for anything else which is a huge gaping flaw. The type C crystal is barely more effective for removing ore compared to the type B crystal. The waste modifier is tied to the yield, so a reduction in the yield also reduces the waste. Going from 180% to 25% yield(comparing A/B to C) is a huge hit. It really makes that impressive 18 modifier like a 2/2.5 modifier. Because of the low yield, any other yield modifiers become kinda pointless. In my testing I found that a type C only does 1.5 times as much as a type B crystal and that is with an orca buff, this difference becomes even smaller with the rorqual buff... So there is a case to be made that you are better off using type B crystals to steal anyway because you'd profit more. Which leads to the C type only being useful for destroying the rock and nothing else. Which if that is your goal it kinda does it but not well.

[@Sse363]

Hoping for a good, preparing for the bad. Typical CCP patch in a game. IGN Los Crabos

[@DirkBeijaard]

Thanks for the info. Not looking too good for miners... IGN: Principa Caliga

[@timscherermedienproduktion6440]

I have to say - i read over the announcement and i'm kinda shocked why they would fck over their community the way they do ... So basically they made it even even harder to get stuff done now? ^^ Jeez. Anyway, IGN: Elana Doweiko

[@varagvarag2007]

Best thing about the changes = More content in space for everyone! Worst thing = Certain null sec Blocks crying salty tears in Jita and slowing the game down for the rest of us.... Well I guess they had been doing that for the development of the game for some time any way....

[@garakanos9515]

Im not interested in mining, so i dont know how these changes will affect the industry, but they seem interesting IGN: Raen Oskold

[@pieuvre13]

Thank you for your skilled views. Would enjoy a Gila skin for sure o7 IGN Zoulou One

[@PiPiIndustries]

Jita riots continue 18 EVE time 14 November 2021. Fireworks and heavy tidi expected.

[@sert_winner3678]

Thx for the info Ign sert1 Erquilenne

[@cmdrcosmicbooty5013]

Endurance can't use a covert ops on sisi! Also prospect mines 40% more with T2 B crystals. The mining drones in the endurance are a negative bonus on sisi they don't want you using mining drones

[@srodgers895]

mining drones skill... extraction incoming, would love to see what skills get extracted after a 'upgrade' like this