From Right-Wing Radio to the Heart of the Never Trump Movement, with Charlie Sykes

[@italythroughmyeyes]

Miss you Charlie!

[@cherifernandez3667]

I do too 😢

[@Pedrotheporcupine]

Good riddance to this guy

[@mikeraspanti5342]

I liked him better when he was speaking the truth as conservative at WTMJ in Milwaukee. His book, “A Nation Adrift” was his best achievement.

[@mikeraspanti5342]

Correction: It wasn’t “A Nation Adrift” that Charlie wrote. It was “A Nation of Moochers” that he wrote. I wonder if he still believes that🤷

[@deanportman1832]

Nice to hear Charlie again, in depth. He’s definitely a hero of the continuing anti-drump movement.

[@PortlandRose]

This is the best I’ve seen of Charlie~ honest, thoughtful, and introspective. Really appreciate where he’s landed.

[@Srpicklez]

Happy to see and hear Charlie again. I remember starting to listen to him at the weekly standard when Trump first got elected. It hit me like a ton of bricks when he said he was stopping The Bulwark, I did not realize how fast time flies. Btw Love Tim on The Bulwark.

[@Vonfleet]

Charlie, you've gained a lot more friends than you've lost. But most importantly, you've gained the love and respect of thousands of Americans who never really knew you before. I include myself in that number.

[@susanrobertson984]

Charlie is a breath of fresh air. The reason he wasn’t taken seriously as a conservative talk show host is because people on the outside of that ecosystem could see the insanity in ways that he couldn’t. Grateful he got out and is now the voice of reason that is taken seriously. Always have time for him.

[@jenniferstone2975]

Charlie’s political metamorphosis is a familiar one for hundreds of thousands of us since 2015. Extremism is repellent.

[@burntorangehorn]

And although some of us went through that metamorphosis about a dozen years earlier, we don't judge those who came their senses after us, lest we be judged by those who came to theirs before us. What matters now is that we're a coalition with a noble shared purpose.

[@jnagarya519]

@@burntorangehorn I go for reason over nobility, because the latter is so often a pose.

[@Talezassian]

Other excellent examples: Anthony Scaramucci, Liz Cheney, Alyssa Farah Griffiths

[@MarcosElMalo2]

@@burntorangehorn For me the breaking point was in 2006 or 2007 when we were debating if waterboarding was or was not a form of torture, and whether or not physical torture was a legitimate or effective means of interrogation. I was shocked by how many rank and file Republicans just came out in favor of torture for torture’s sake. They stepped away the rationales and justifications and just admitted that causing pain was desirable and justified, even on someone who was only suspected of having information (because the person was one of “them”, someone who lived in the same country as terroists). Someone even joked that it was OK “to torture first and ask questions later”. The logic came down to “if you don’t want to be subject to torture, don’t be born in Afghanistan or Iraq”. I want to make it clear. This had moved beyond debating the efficacy. It was beyond playing with definitions. It was beyond the discussion of screening to make sure you got the right guy. They just wanted to torture people out of revenge because it made them happy. And in not even going to get into the racial dimension of it, but that seemed to play a part. It really didn’t surprise me that Republicans applauded family separation and putting children in cages. It doesn’t surprise me that the governor of Texas would be cheered for entertaining the idea of shooting immigrants for trying to cross the border. Something violent and cruel has been unleashed in the United States of America and it has found a home in the Republican Party.

[@burntorangehorn]

@MarcosElMalo2 My own doubts about the GOP began when the Bush campaign pulled out a lot of really cynically racist stops leading up to the South Carolina primary in 2000. I fully walked away from the party over the next three years. By the time I got back from Iraq in 2004, I was ready to donate to whoever turned out to be Bush's opponent. The torture debate that drove you away certainly hardened my resolve. Anyway, the GOP has given us all lots of break-away reasons in recent decades, and I'm glad that there aren't many who are faulting others for taking just a little longer to actually leave. Our resulting coalition is varied and somewhat tenuous, but absolutely critical to the continuation of liberal democracy and the rule of law.

[@mikeraspanti5342]

I really do miss the old Charlie Sykes. I loved his radio show weekdays from: 8:30-11AM on 620 WTMJ, Milwaukee! Charlie always spoke out in favor of Conservative values that many in Wisconsin enjoyed. Come back home Sykes!👍🏻

[@emydonavan6254]

If you told me in the 90s and early 2000s that I’d ever strongly agree with Charlie Sykes on many, many issues, I’d have called you a liar. But man, I so appreciate this guy. Great conversation!

[@lydiagoldsmith2931]

Fortunately I kept my integrity through those 1990-2000 years. And I still talk about how deplorable Reagan and his popular trickle down economics as well as his dumping of mental health individuals into homelessness is one of our worst decisions ever

[@eveyhammond8326]

Because of Paul Ryan teachers don’t get a tax deduction for buying supplies, but private jet owners do. Disgusting.

[@ELL289]

Paul Ryan is disgusting.

[@teacher01ful]

Ben, thanks for this deep dive with Charlie Sykes. I miss his contrarian voice on The Bulwark. (Don’t get me wrong, loving Tim Miller.) Charlie, Mona and Bill were some of the conservative voices I’ve turned to during these insane Trump years. I’ll also listen to The Lincoln Project and Tom Nichols. I’ve always voted Democratic, having grown up in the blue Mecca of Austin, Texas. I needed to try to get some perspective from conservatives about how such madness could infect the GOP. I’m happy to report that you and Lawfare are a gem I was unaware of until you began talking with Charlie regularly on The Bulwark podcast. Happy to be a regular ‘paid’ subscriber to Lawfare. I always listen to the plethora of podcasts generated by all the Lawfare contributors. Learn new things constantly. I’m a fan of all your Ukraine support and enjoy all the different places you’ve projected the Ukrainian flag. Thanks for ALL you do, Ben

[@JR-pr8jb]

I don't know any Democrats who are party "fan-boys." We're notorious for our internal disagreements and criticisms of the party, its leaders and policies. This isn't true of MAGA/GOP.

[@susanrobertson984]

This is why the right isn’t taken seriously and are treated so « unfairly » because in the end they refuse so often to be self reflective and critical.

[@jaelo2314]

Thanks to Big Orange, there is now a Never GOP movement

[@jakebarnes28]

Kind of like because of Putin Sweden and Finland are in NATO.

[@fredgarvinMP]

@@jaelo2314 Ditto for Brandon and the Dems.

[@Midwestphillytransplant]

I am so happy the algorithm gods blessed me with this even though I didn't realize, after listening to Ben for over a year, that Lawfare had a KZbin channel!! Miss you Charlie. So good to hear your voice!!

[@ecstanton]

Omg...the trump commercial that I got that interrupted this video was priceless. 'I'm humbly asking if you can donate $5, $10'....HUMBLY😂

[@victorzarenin9286]

My exact thoughts! Humbly... Just another Trump lie.

[@ccwechsler8816]

Yes. I thought, “Glad they wasted that money here.”

[@nonayoung8177]

my reaction too. i’m humbly asking. yuck!!!!

[@jaelo2314]

And you can generously decline the request

[@christinescar]

Haha. I was struck by the irony too. I doubt there was much cash generated from that ad here.

[@torchedearth8547]

I am a 71 year old from Milwaukee, went to UW-Milwaukee as well and HATED your radio show Charlie...but have followed you closely these past many years ....this interview is filling in all of the gaps !! Your story is quite compelling! Thank you for your hard work 😊

[@JR-pr8jb]

Life isn't a straight line. In the 60's-70's, I was anti-war, anti-establishment, then found myself a Reagan-voting corporate hack. Now I shudder thinking about it. Vote Blue!

[@MarcosElMalo2]

Don’t feel ashamed of being a Reagan supporter. Do you know why Reagan and (arch-liberal) Tip O’Neil were friends and could find points of compromise despite the philosophical differences? It was because they wanted the same thing for all Americans, prosperity and freedom. They just had different ways to get there. Remember that although Reagan espoused conservative ideals, he wasn’t an ideologue. He was a pragmatist. Surprisingly, Reagan wasn’t 100% a supporter of “Reaganism”. (And he certainly wasn’t perfect. When liberals recite their litany of charges against Reagan, some of their points are hard to refute.) But to focus on what was wrong with Reagan and his administration might lead us to forget the terrible state of the Democratic Party and their lack of coherent ideas. If there is anything to be ashamed of, it is our own hubris in that time. We thought we were right in all things and we weren’t. Or we were right about something contingent, and assumed it was always the right solution. (I think of supply-side economics, which was an appropriate course correction, but we over-corrected and turned it into a religion.) I think the entire country would be on a different trajectory if either George H.W. Bush or Bob Dole had won their respective elections. I think Clinton could have been a much better president if he had taken the job more seriously and had abstained from the affair which hamstrung his effectiveness. But anyway, it is appropriate to admit our mistakes and to make amends for them when they hurt other people. (To me, that is a core principal.) But don’t neurotically magnify those mistakes, either. We didn’t have all the answers like we thought we did, but we had some of them. But maybe the lesson we can take and the amends we should make is to be better listeners to our liberal friends.

[@adrianfoca865]

That is a sign of independent thinking

[@LucindaBerry-r7i]

I sometimes wonder where the country would be if Jimmy Carter had won a 2nd term, with some other Republican winning in the mid 80s! But my analysis is not as well informed as your very thought provoking one. Rereading it now!​@@MarcosElMalo2

[@jnagarya519]

@@MarcosElMalo2 Reagan was a posturing fraud -- all slogans and platitudes for the shallow with no knowledge of history or awareness of political reality beyond emotional reaction to demagogic rhetoric. Why is it that the Republican Party of my lifetime always pushed a paternalistic tough-guy rhetoric and militarism, even though its leaders mostly had never served in uniform? Reagan spent the WW II years making movies in Hollowood. Are-"conservative" and pro-war John Wayne dodged the draft in order to pretend to be a war hero in movies. Five-deferments Dick Cheney nonetheless presented himself as an expert on war -- going to war, not avoiding or preventing it. Reagan showed his true colors when he turned tai and ran away when the Marine barracks was bombed in Lebanon -- and what was the US's business in Lebanon? And then to repair his tough-guy mask he invaded the humongous "Communist" "invasion force" on the tiny island of Grenada. Want to be certain to win a war? -- then use overwhelming force against a sleeping kitten.

[@mikeraspanti5342]

Yeah, right🤣! Liberalism has made your brain go soft.

[@motleycru3016]

Love you Ben but Charlie you are sorely missed 😊. MSNBC needs to give you your own show. ...the Charlie Hour 🤔

[@MellowWind]

I've missed you guys! Thanks for being back together. PLEASE do it weekly again.

[@snooks73]

Imho that was elucidating and I thank you both for it. It began to answer some questions I've had in regards to what it was about the conservatives that made them vulnerable to Trumpism. It is the most introspective explanation I've come across. I wish more Republicans were capable of it. Thanks again.

[@sherib5752]

Gosh, I really miss Charlie! Love Tim Miller on The Bulwark, but Charlie's the OG.

[@RescueNinjaKris10]

Me too! I miss my daily appointment with Charlie on the Bulwark!!! Tim is great! But I miss you Charlie!

[@jasonsimmons2834]

Charlie is normal while tim is pop culture. They replaced charlie and his knowledge at the bullwark with a guy who focuses on identity politics. Bullwark lost my subscription.

[@mikeraspanti5342]

I miss the old Charlie Sykes. The shit that he subscribes to today is the very thing that is killing our country😔

[@MaryjoVillegas]

Thanks Ben and Lawfare for Charlie interview. Miss him so much on Bulwark. I’m a hardcore dem that enjoys learning from other perspectives. Charlie has a gift of attracting “other sides”.

[@candacegray9382]

Charlie, I miss your thoughts and instincts on the Bulwark podcast, but very much respect the need to step back. To gain time and joy with your family is very deserved. As a Liberal that was feeling fearful of my family of Trump cult members, you and your guest gave me hope.

[@stephenshearon6420]

I thoroughly enjoyed and appreciated this. Thank you both. And Charlie, I especially appreciated your comments highlighting the importance of protecting liberal thought from the illiberalism of both (all) sides.

[@whatisgoingon271]

Both of you guys are helping me understand how chaotic and weird our politics are right now. I thought I was the crazy one.

[@perrykealoha2511]

Ben, and Charlie. Please do more together. Insightful, explorative, provocative. If your goal is to get people thinking, this is the way to do it. Miles to go before we sleep.

[@terryarmstrong8598]

Ben and Charlie. ❤ Remember. We're not the crazy ones.

[@shelleytrenholm5093]

Hi Ben & Charlie! Best duo and info for me as I live on a small city in NB, Canada and I'm engrossed in US politics. Miss you on the Bulwark but Tim's soo good. Just can't go through another term with Trump, it's exhausting.

[@donaldcunningham961]

One of the best interviews I've heard. I was a big fan of Charlie's Bulwark podcast, and I appreciated the insight into how he has become the person I admire today. I'm supporting the democrats today, but I appreciated his warning about becoming a loyal partisan hack. We must hold all of our political leaders accountable to our democratic principles. Thx again to Charlie and Ben for an enlightening interview.

[@maureencowanmagee911]

Thanks, Ben, so good to hear Charlie's voice again. Love listening to the both of you together.

[@carolbulmer8253]

Ben and Charlie, thank you for this conversation! I miss your weekly conversations.

[@Erniegrow]

Fantastic interview. Charley great to see you, miss you on Bulwark -totally understand why you left. Glad to see you remaining in the arena

[@freddiejohnson8538]

Such a pleasure. Ben are Charlie are 2 of the greatest mensches in US journalism.

[@wandamcknight7668]

Charlie Sykes, you are an inspiration to me. I, too, have miscalculated many developments in the conservative school of thought. I have accepted that true conservatism no longer exists. I have become an unaffiliated voter and I still long to hear educated thought leaders like you. Thank you.

[@DebbieFitzmaurice]

So miss you Charlie and can’t find a podcast that I enjoy as much as yours!

[@christianerousseau9606]

Thank you Ben for asking Charlie to be on this interview. Charlie I miss you so much. You are one of the most sanest humans in the media circuit, who always speaks the truth. I understand why you stepped away but it would be so great if you had another go at your own show. All the best to you Charlie and Take care. Love from a Canadian admire 🇨🇦

[@kayecastleman6353]

Am always enlightened and uplifted by Charlie's political insights.

[@chappellroseholt5740]

Good morning from the beautiful SF Bay Area. Wow, Charlie, you filled in all the blanks I had about you. When I started watching the Bulwark last year I was perplexed because from out here in California you were just a right wing radio jock from the midwest and who cares. Suddenly I'm listening to you almost everyday and appreciating your point of view. Now I miss seeing you with Tim, and I LOVE Tim, but you have a viewpoint. Glad to see you on MSNBC. What a world! You and Liz Cheney and all the sane never *Rumpers need to join up, join hands, be seen and make a huge noise all together over and over everywhere. 🥶👺

[@tammyburke9453]

Agree 100% Once I found Charlie I was hooked and to hear him leave I was and still am devastated, yes, love Tim too but the EXPERIENCE C.S. has is undeniable. Hmmmm, who Else does that sound like? Yep, GO BRANDON!!!

[@hestergnu6627]

Great to hear from Charlie again. Miss you on The Bulwark

[@mm5478]

Charlie Sykes!!!! You are very missed.

[@pade1365]

Love listening to the both of you...

[@nancychandler3673]

We love ya, Charlie 🎉

[@MarcosElMalo2]

What a terrific and much needed interview. Thank you Ben and thank you, Charlie. I sure wish I could have a one on one conversation with Charlie, but this interview is a close second best. I think Ben was thorough with most of the important points and salient issues. I can’t think of a better questioner than Ben for this interview.

[@adrianfoca865]

I really like Charlie,i just started listening to the Bulwark and he comes off very level headed. He should throw us a bone from time time and come on with Tim Miller.

[@patriciaheflin4518]

Terrific conversation!

[@marcvonborstel5730]

I miss hearing Charlie's beautiful voice and incredible mind every day, so this is a wonderful treat.

[@lucibjlb]

I can't tell you how much I loved this interview. I'm so glad you did this.

[@dorothypeters9711]

Miss you Charlie. Ben thanks for hosting this great discussion.

[@wegder]

I'm about Charlie's age, I was just a kid but I sympathized with the anti Vietnam war effort in 67 and supported McCarthy. I was following every primary election, I stayed up late to see the results of the California primary that Kennedy won but went to bed about 30 minutes before he was assassinated. Watched the Democratic convention, got suspended from school for wearing a black armband, lol.

[@tomhaggard3352]

Graduated High School in 68. Got to see and listen to RFK on the stump when he thru his hat in the ring. I saw and heard JFK speak as well. Their speeches were ASPIRATIONAL and made you so proud of our country and that together we could accomplish anything. That we are a good people with the same values,that helped each other...wonderful speakers.

[@davidkennerly]

Great discussion! I hope Charlie keeps giving us some quality time. He's a highly intelligent, and very wise, public intellectual. His absence from The Bulwark has left a big hole in my daily routine.

[@peggynulsen1365]

Totally true for me as well. Wake up, make coffee, turn on computer, go to email and read Charlie's column in The Bulwark. I dearly miss his writing style. Love everyone at The Bulwark, been a paid subscriber from the get go and know how hard they all work. I will always support taking care of oneself over any job though and he does seem more relaxed when I see him on his TV appearances. This was a great Lawfare video.

[@Sami-vg3lp]

This was excellent! So good to have you two back again and to hear Charlie speak of his journey.

[@lauryb-46108]

Thanks for sharing so much , Charlie. My respect for you has grown over time, as I've watched you on MSNBC and watched/listened on the Bulwark. This interview, showcasing your honesty, integrity, and thoughtfulness; has multiplied that respect ten fold.

[@suzanneclancy3895]

A fragile crust on a molten pie - priceless analogy and so apt. I see entitlement as the key - Republican voters tend to believe that 'their' tribalism is justified. This has been partly due to plain racism, abetted by the Southern strategy, and also by the anger of evangelicals, who seem to be only recently discovering that being Christian no longer entitles them to 'extra credit' in life. Democratic voters, otoh, accept that they may be in the minority within their party/political association and are okay with that so long as they have the opportunity to support and advocate for specific causes important to them.

[@annmariecassani8388]

Yeay! 🎉🎉🎉🎉🎉🎉Charlie, so good to hear and see you again! Outside of MSNBC of course. Missed you much. Welcome back, we want to see more of you! ❤❤❤

[@stevenelson2641]

Missus here: Moving past the crazy and the crackpots. I cut my political teeth on the Birchers and Goldwater and Nixon, so could never become a Republican even tho' I voted for Republican candidates if I thought they were the best candidate. Point is, the GOP has always loved their crazies and crackpots. So odd that this continues to come as a surprise to conservatives.

[@sharonjoy6234]

Me too. I thought Kennedy was shot for the presidency and his brother would be too. Thought Nixon would end up freedom as we knew it if he stayed in office. When Reagan was elected I told my son he would be shot but not killed by a Bush supporter, they needed a martyr to get their agenda through and to not be suspected. When Trump was elected I thought he had rape Dictator devil ethics And we would have to resist him or lose our democracy, which would make us less conceited but wiser.

[@JohnAllenRoyce]

Because conservatives ARE crackpots. It's made-up mass media tribalist phenomenon. America watched Europe fall prey to the Right before WWII, and sat and played footsie with it and melted in the fire.

[@liamcullen3035]

This is an incredible interview. In this modern age, we all need to understand how people in media positions can fall into tribal thinking. Thankyou both.

[@hadawson72268]

I miss Charlie so much ... I'm glad to see him here sounding great

[@chickenmama823]

Charlie I miss you on the Bulwark so much. Good to See you here with Ben.

[@billbloodworth5180]

Honesty is refreshing

[@tammyburke9453]

CANNOT STAND Charlie Sykes broadcast is Over. OMG I was HOOKED on Him! Liberal Democrat here and C.S. was by far the Best commentator!!!! Best voice, cadence and CONTENT! NO EQUALS. Oh God, I Miss Charlie Sykes!!!!!!

[@michaeljewell3675]

You’re a good man, Charlie Sykes

[@ifionlyhadaboat]

I miss Charlie!!! I hated him when he was on talk radio but today he's my spirit animal. I just want to buy him a drink...

[@moabite367]

what a great conversation.

[@63terrence]

From Lincoln and Teddy Roosevelt all the way to Reagan and trump is so heartbreaking

[@JoobieLoobieSoobie]

What a great interview! I was not aware of Charlie's history and it makes my respect for him grow. You represent us, the silent majority that still exists, still understands that our form of government is more important than our affiliation.

[@robertadaversa2503]

What a brilliant and succinct synopsis of "tribal loyalty untethered to any sort of policy or coherent idea" as the mark of our time.

[@tspis]

What a wonderful interview - thank you both!

[@dr.j9201]

Yay Charlie!!!! Keep talking!

[@stevenelson2641]

Thank you for this interview, Ben!!

[@mattjames7272]

I'm right there with you, Charlie 🤜🤛

[@thomaswall4699]

Charlie, we miss you.

[@norankpost2]

Your fans want more right wing bs

[@voidwraithprime8521]

The war is reality vs. RW culture-war-fantasyland, and if you're tethered to reality, you're an ally to be taken seriously. That's what Charlie experienced. As a Dem who didn't listen to RW radio, I had no knowledge of Charlie's previous work, but the fact that he's a rational human being who refuses to grift the brainwashed conservative cultists means more than he knows. It's everything.

[@missnellie33]

Yay, Charlie!!!

[@korokukoroku2409]

Man, I miss Charlie doing his own show. He’s got an important voice.

[@m.talley1660]

The only thing I'd argue with Charlie about is saying "not rocket science" regarding understanding reactivity amongst folks. Social science complexity is way more difficult to understand than the calculable work of physical rockets and gravitational dynamics. Humans are the hard problem. Thanks for this background on Charlie. I've been watching his work recently and missed him as he left the Bulwark.

[@JR-pr8jb]

Painful to think of Charlie's friendship with the unspeakable Ron Johnson and Scott Walker.

[@Talezassian]

And Paul Ryan: his disappointment when talking his history with them has always been honest and palpable

[@Asehpe]

Hearing Charlie talk about his attempt to convince Paul Ryan to take a stand ('if not now, then when?'), I am reminded of that scene in Schindler's List in which Schindler is trying to convince some other entrepreneur, who also had Jewish workers and gave them extra food and protection, to go with him and save his workers... but the guy, who probably agreed with everything else Schindler told him, just kept saying, 'I... can't... I can't, I can't...'. 😢

[@jaimesanders5715]

Gene McCarthy also won the Oregon primary. My mother was the Portland Oregon office manager for his campaign. I was 12 years old in 1968 and the convention was shattering. I stayed away from politics for years and am just now dipping my toes back in.

[@Reldas]

Hi Charlie! We miss you!

[@doctorj2u2]

So appreciate Charlie Sykes. His political journey so mirrors my own journey.

[@sbeckwit]

This was a totally awesome episode. Thank you.

[@DOPES4MAGA]

Ben secretly was reading my comment the other day on the bulwark podcast asking Tim to bring Charlie back for an interview.

[@colkoch]

Great interview Mr. Wittes. I feel like I know the real Charlie now, not just the Charlie of the Bulwark podcast. 'Fawn not on the mighty' probably won't work well with MAGA. Maybe my dad's favorite expression: Remember when you start hero worshipping that no one is above having to take a dump.

[@thomaswebster444]

This interview has been a political education for me!

[@sheribee831]

Science and education has alienated those who feel judged as ignorant. And they have found a champion to make their ignorance and bullying tactics cool. In their bubble they no longer have to worry about climate change, societal progress, their own inability to adapt and learn to live in the present. The world is changing so much and so fast...going backwards feels safe. It is genuinely sad.

[@cherylhughes2988]

I remember hearing Charlie on Bob Jones Radio and feeling disgusted. I'm glad he saw the light.

[@chadmyers9639]

Did my search of "What is Charlie Sykes up to now?" trigger this? Writing a book, move to TV, run for office, become a recluse? The World Wonders. I fully comprehend the choices ahead and have already made mine. They align perfectly with Charlies's nuanced and intelligent (contrarian) arguments and insights. How did it happen and where are we going? Learnin' . . .

[@peggynulsen1365]

Charlie, wear the Contrairian badge proudly. My Dad was a lawyer and he always challanged everything just to stimulate critical thinking. Works for me.

[@justinlinnane8043]

So good to see Charlie again !! You are missed

[@32582657]

“At 8:29 on March 28th, 2016, I was a “right-wing radio hack” who was safely ignored by the entire news media. 20 minutes later, I was one of the most thoughtful and significant thinkers in American politics.”

[@lesawagner-fruechte194]

Loved this show. And Love that hammock chair!

[@Tom-vm2wh]

I think Tim is doing a great job with the Bulwark but I do miss hearing Charlie's voice.

[@nickditoro]

Loved this interview, so thanks, Ben for doing it. Miss seeing Charlie on the Bulwark, but glad he's doing well.

[@891156]

Great interview. Thanks for posting.

[@BarbaraNegherbon]

I was taught to be skeptical in high school and at home. We didn’t have tv but at least three different newspapers. What happened? I still scan through almost a dozen online papers everyday. I listen to Lawfare, Crooked Media, and Bulwark to get various viewpoints.

[@katiechappell5075]

Bravo! If we survive Trump and MAGA, I hope a true conservative party will emerge once again. I want to be part of a nation where all Americans feel respected and voters do not consider voters of a different party as being enemies.

[@wcwright44]

What an excellent and thoughtful conversation! Thank you, both.

[@Ziontrainism]

Like Tim but miss Charlie. I can totally get how it could get old having to make content almost every day.

[@vespahandle]

We’re under the same Jupiter Uranus energies that were present in 1968!

[@audreywellham2413]

Ben and Charlie- excellent piece! 🙏🏻🇺🇸⚖️💙🗽❕