From Steely Dan's 'Aja' to 'Gaucho' The Search For Perfection - Bill Schnee Interview

[@rodneygriffin7666]

Both Aja and Gaucho are incredible sonic Masterpieces. Equally influential. Perfect records.

[@rodneygriffin7666]

The peak of a band. Their Abbey Road. I don't count the other two 'Reunion' LP's in the same league. This to me is the last inspired Steely Dan Album. The other later 2 are good, but not the same.

[@blueshorecreative3146]

who could ask for anything more?

[@stephenlibin9526]

Aja, sheer perfection! Gaucho, damn good! Great to hear Bill tell these stories!

[@zamaurijones2725]

The “erased song” that Bill was referring to is called “The Second Arrangement”, and there are bootlegs of it on KZbin

[@mikewritz]

There is also a live version from the Beacon theatre from Steely’s “rarities night” show. They also played The Bear during that set among some other amazing tracks that never made their albums.

[@rodneygriffin7666]

Fantastic.

[@SeaMark782]

I had the good fortune to go to high school with Jeff Porcaro and his brothers, and I'll never forget when he was hired to play with my favorite band, Steely Dan. I got to hear them in 1974 with Jeff at a small club in Glendale, CA, met the band, hung out for 2 nights. I had just turned 18 yo, pretty heady stuff. And then Katy Lied, it was so good and we knew the drummer! Hearing Bill talk about Jeff is just great, a real prodigy, I was so lucky to have known all the Toto guys.

[@edwindavies875]

You have done hundreds of amazing I interviews, John, but these conversations with Bill are among my very favorite. Great job!

[@stephengriffin9992]

The song that was erased is The Second Arrangement which is available on the internet. Donald Fagen has a reputation as notoriously hard to please and picky to a fault especially on drummers. Great interview with Bill. More please.

[@andyinoregon]

Great to hear Bill Schnee reference the late drummer Jeff Porcaro. He was such a prodigy that my wife and I first saw him when he was still just 17, drumming for Sonny & Cher at a March 19, 1972 concert in Fort Wayne, Indiana. Two years later we're at our first Steely Dan concert on Sunday April 21, 1974 at the U. of Toledo, and who do we see tandem drumming alongside Jim Hodder but a just-turned 20 Jeff Porcaro. His performance on that tour got him the session gig on their 1975 album "Katy Lied," and later that year on Boz Scagg's Grammy-winning "Silk Degrees." What a resume for a 21 year-old. By the time Becker & Fagen resumed touring in Aug. 1993, both Jim Hodder and Jeff Porcaro had passed on.

[@quayscenes]

Aja is certainly the better album objectively. But Gaucho just does something for me. Also, the song, Gaucho, is one of Steely Dan's greatest moments (thank you, Keith Jarrett). Emotionally, Gaucho is my favorite. The way it opens with the absolute perfection of Babylon Sisters, and then right into the comic melancholy of Hey Nineteen - so smooth! And since hearing Walter do his live spoken word bit during Hey Nineteen about the Cuervo Gold, it is all the more endearing each time I hear it. RIP Walter Becker.

[@barbaralavoie1045]

I love Steely Dan! They were the best! Always a favorite of mine.❤️

[@artmanjohn2]

In July 1978, "Aja" won the Grammy Award for Best Engineered Recording - Non-Classical and received Grammy nominations for Album of the Year and Best Pop Performance by a Duo or Group with Vocals. I remember "Gaucho" also won the Grammy for the best-engineered album, non-classical back in 1981. This made me go out and buy, both MFSL 1/2 speed mastered albums both on virgin vinyl back then, they were and still are a sonic wonderment! Oh, later as they came out, I also acquired the MFSL Gold Disk - CD versions of these two albums! They are beautiful to listen to, they are both ear candy and both truly sonic perfection! Oh, Jimi Hendrix once forgot and left the box full of the master tapes for "Axis Bold as Love" in a taxi cab in London, rushing to get to whatever his destination was. The tapes were never recovered. Jimi had to re-record and mix the whole/complete recording session of "Axis Bold as Love" for the album to be released.

[@allthingsguitar9219]

Our descendents generations from now will be So jealous that we lived through the greatest decade in history ... The 1970s Great Bands with amazing music 🎶 & Steely Dan right at the top

[@robprice8509]

Love both of these albums!

[@RaincloudmusicTFS6]

Thanks, John! THIS and The Al Schmidt book in 2 weeks; I have had a blast.

[@GeriOnTheRadio]

This is a fantastic interview with a LEGEND! You’re right John when you said that EVERYBODY had a copy of Steely Dan’s ‘Aja’. I was about the same age as you when my uncle gave me his copy and I was instantly hooked. I am going to see Steely Dan next month and I am soooo excited. Looking forward to hearing more of this interview. Well done.

[@wasteomoneymotionpictureco4086]

Next year?

[@LawrenceMark33]

I had every single Steely Dan album. Every single one. Then my ex wife took over. Hahaha!

[@boogingtonthunderwood8969]

Luvvin’ it!!!! For a young li’l punk aspiring to be a studio drummer, Aja and Gaucho were enchanting! because damn-near every prominent studio drummer from that time was on SOMETHING between those two albums. (Bonus was Paul Humphrey on Black Cow, a huge jump from his gig with Lawrence Welk. [gulp]) So cool to get to hear juicy little tidbits about those sessions. John B., ya hit it outta the park yet again. Good on ya!

[@segwaymusic]

My absolute favourite album is "Four Corners" by the Yellowjackets which was recorded by Bill at his studio.

[@keithjones6023]

The search for perfection? Any Steely Dan album!

[@Xpansv]

2 of the finest records.

[@pal4597]

Gaucho is such a great song, and feel.

[@habyss]

I’ve listened to Gaucho way more than Aja over the years.

[@chs7516]

I’m not the only one here to state that Gaucho is my favourite. For me it’s at least as good as Aja, and I’ll qualify that by saying when I first got into Steely Dan’s music, it was the songs on Gaucho that buzzed around in my head all day more than those on any other album.

[@DrCheeks]

Perfectly describes my view on the subject😁

[@BudSchnelker]

Gaucho has crept up on me over the years. The songs are probably a bit stronger on Aja but that's not a knock on Gaucho, which rewards multiple listens. The title track is, in my opinion, the most underrated song in Steely Dan's catalog.

[@davidmartin1455]

Bill produced some Pablo Cruise. I think he is the reason why they are my favorite group

[@Simonewhitesim-1music]

Wow so wonderful and deep. Kids these are the sessions cats!!!!!!

[@steelydan42]

Good band 👍👍👍

[@shinyoneincarnate5565]

In Chicago, in the 1980s, I spent a 3 day weekend at an expo, sitting in a booth next to Rodger Scott "The Immortal" Nichols. He was promoting his drum machine the Wendel. Next to him, & in front of me was Jeff "Skunk" Baxter, who was promoting the Roland Guitar Synthesizer GR-55 & GR 303. Across the isle from him was Todd Harry Rundgren promoting the Fairlight Digital Sampler. We talked about Steely Dan. Working with them & possible future. We also talked about the Doobies connection & changes. The Ultimate Spinach was also brought up. We discussed ongoing projects. Todd did not say one word to anyone, all 3 days. Not even the potential customers, who were attending the expo. He just skulled all 3 days. The girl who picked Todd up at the airport, told me she was an hour late, & he looked mad then. He said not a word from airport to the Purple Hyatt Hotel. Poor guy, must of had a troubled mind.

[@garygibson5983]

I had a friend who was palling around with one of Bill's protoge's at the time and he was in the same studio on the day they track was erased and he told me at the time everybody cleared out because there was hell to pay.

[@rmac1042]

My close friend of 60 years is Jim Keltner ( on Josie). He has interesting stories about Aja!

[@RockHistoryMusic]

Hey Michael get him to email me [e-mail] I WOULD LOVE TO CHAT WITH HIM....Thanks John

[@ministerofdarkness]

Royal Scam is my favorite

[@slow71971]

Sometimes there's a thing called too perfect...An Gaucho is a perfect case of this.

[@Waterinmenbenen]

Aja is without question one of the greatest records of all time. But I prefer Gaucho..

[@funklover24]

Jeff Porcaro played on titletrack "Gaucho", so why is Bill speaking about Jeff not being a part of the Gaucho-sessions?

[@steelyd2]

He’s talking about Aja. Porcaro isn’t on Aja. Even though he’s all over their other records.

[@funklover24]

@@steelyd2 Thanks, you're right. I just heard the part again. 😉

[@SuperStrik9]

Aja and Gaucho are both amazing albums. I recently revisited the live album Alive In America from 1995. Damn fine live album, though I'm still not a fan of the revamped Reelin' In The Years. I miss Elliott Randall's lead guitar work among other things.

[@markburnham7512]

I assume he is referring to "Third World Man" or "Were You Blind That Day" as it was called when he recorded it. For me, Aja has held up just a little better over the years.

[@JohannesYtterstrom]

Aja and Gaucho are very different to me. Same band and not that far off in time but quite hard to compare. I feel that Gaucho is a more easy listen and Aja something that deserves more attention. Great for different times just like it should be. Bands who only do similar albums tend to do "lesser albums" at some point. Nobody needs twenty albums of the same thing.

[@cameron_fairchild]

Love your avi. Q's work is amazing, exciting and meticulous, kind of like SD, without the neurosis.

[@sheldonwheaton881]

I like Gaucho better.🗿

[@LawrenceMark33]

I agree that music is personal, albeit emotional... which runs the gamut... At least my songs do.

[@gregfulton2539]

p.s. the new book Quantum Criminals is excellent, a must for Dan fans.

[@charlesdexterbrewer6586]

He’s on 1 tune, the title track Gaucho, However, Jeff is on 5 out of 8 songs on the Night Fly.

[@Rick-zw7zv]

Not many people have the musical and technical analytic insight to judge which album is better, Gaucho or Aja, all you get is some subjective opinions on what album conjures up the best personal memories and positive connotations.

[@blueshorecreative3146]

Bill Schneeeee

[@kevinlewis1017]

I'm that guy that likes gaucho better. It's become cliche to have Aja as best album of all time although they're pretty close. Gaucho like Aja mark II

[@keithjones6023]

I don't know if it's because Pretzel Logic was the first Steely Dan album l bought nearly 50 years ago 🙄, but it's always remained my favourite. There is no denying that AJA, Gaucho, and indeed The Royal Scam were absolutely wonderful records, but the shorter format songs on Pretzel are just so snappy and highly melodic, With a Gun, Night by Night, Through with Buzz, the title track with its great lyrics do it for me every time. The last two albums, Two Against Nature and Everything Must Go had for me lost that magic that the early albums had, and almost felt that they were trying for a more 'sophisticated' sound. Although I've played those two many times, and prefer Two Against Nature, it has a few more memorable songs, they had lost that spark of their earlier work.

[@slow71971]

I think it had the best shorties overall...My rival? What blistering guitar tracks...especially the solo's!

[@jrpipik]

You can perfect the arrangements and the production all you want, but you have to have the songs. IMO AJA had five classics and two good ones, GAUCHO had two solid hits and a lot of slow moody stuff.

[@austinstyles6393]

Spot on.

[@BassManDan1018]

I think Gaucho is MORE steely Dan. It’s not as rich or soulful as Aja, in fact it’s cold, clinical, and super cynical. But it works. In fact, the gloss brings a sleazy sheen to the narratives. You can smell the liquor, and the stale cologne, all mixed with Los Angeles petrol smog. There’s also some incredible pop choruses on there - I think Hey Nineteen, Time out of Mind and Glamour Profession are so danceable. DF carried that on with Nightfly

[@jgmiller804]

Apparently the drums for the title track Gaucho are made up of no less than 46 takes of Jeff. Thats nuts. 55 mixing runs to get the Babylon Sisters fade-out right...I love the album but the making of it sounds like it was hellish.

[@larrypower8659]

Nothing on Gaucho compares to Home At Last, or Deacon Blues, both on Aja. And I love Gaucho, too. It occupies a very specific place in my music heart. But in no way is it in the same conversation with Aja, a certified iconic album. Gaucho is like the party into the wee hours to celebrate the grand success of Aja - complete with the Cuervo Gold and fine Colombian.

[@davidgangemi3314]

Exactly! Too many SD fans try to trump it up to the standard of Aja. It's best to listen to Gaucho for what it is and enjoy it on that level. It's good with some great tracks like Babylon Sisters and Time out of Mind and Hey Nineteen,but it ain't as good or great as AJA is on every track.

[@leepluck3776]

Damn gaucho wasn't that bad,hey nineteen was the sh!t

[@miket.220]

They didn't say it was bad, just not as good as Aja. I love Gaucho, but I agree, Aja is masterpiece by comparison.