From the Flight Deck - Line Up and Wait

[@shannonl6644]

This was an impressive production. Good to see something that's actually applicable to aviators. More videos like this!

[@bobrieth4081]

Very nice video. I'm an Airport Ops Officer at PANC. Our ATC uses "Line up and wait" a lot so everyone is used to hearing it especially on RWY 33 due to RWY 07L being in the jetblast zone. It is also very common to hear a pilot ask ATC "Confirm cleared for take off?" If they were given "line up and wait" the controller will say, "negative, line up and wait." If unsure ALWAYS ask.

[@TroyHill442]

That Boston situation was wild. I remember that. Brilliant video.

[@dermick]

Great video - thanks for creating it. Please do more like this - it's nice to have these reminders, even though every pilot will tell you that this can never happen to them! 😀 I like that you went into the "why" this happens - smart people make mistakes, and sometimes if we understand why this can happen to even good and experienced pilots, it can stick into our memories better.

[@Flutterwhat]

MSFS 2020 footage on the official FAA channel, LOVE IT

[@thatguy7085]

It is a simulator…

[@tomp7621]

What part of "wait" is ambiguous?

[@yungrichnbroke5199]

Nothing. It’s a clear widely used understandable command. It’s a phrase with a specific meaning that can’t be confused. The real systemic problem here is using crossing runways. If the pilots keep doing the dumb thing then stop giving them the opportunity.

[@jackielinde7568]

It's not. But humans and the tech we depend on are patently fallible. There's the radio system with issues of being stepped on and poor signal quality. There are distractions from tings as simple as a checklist. There's repetition and habit. There's even forgetfulness for the last communication with ATC. It's one of those things you can't just expect people to hear and automatically do. It requires vigilance to make sure no incidents happen.

[@AlexM2299]

@@jackielinde7568 Absolutely 💯

[@Patmorgan235Us]

Did you watch the video?

[@latexhague8267]

@@Patmorgan235UsI don’t think he did

[@garyowen9044]

I’m old. When I started the USA tower instruction was, “Position & Hold”, and at some point it changed to the universal ICAO, “Line Up & Wait”. I’d like to know which period in history, all other things being equal, had the highest period of recorded conflicts.

[@thatguy7085]

Wait… isn’t a normal action… but ‘hold’… the pilots know ‘hold’ as stop.

[@samuraisoul2]

Didn't they change from Position and Hold because it was being or was thought to have the potential to be mishead or misunderstood?

[@garyowen9044]

@@samuraisoul2 they changed it so that the USA conformed to ICAO.

[@incog74]

It's a conformal and appropriate change to the phraseology, end of story.

[@jebr055]

The phraseology change from "Taxi into position and hold" many years ago was supposed to help fix this issue. I'm curious if it had any effect at all.

[@shauny2285]

Appears not. 😮

[@wcate8301]

I'm a fossil from the days of "Position and Hold", and never understood why the change was made. The natural rythm of the English language tends to sound like "Position and HOLD", with a natural emphasis on the last word. The current phraseology tends to come out sounding more like "LINE up and wait", and in the rapid-fire communications at busy airports it often comes out in a truncated downbeat. "Wait" is a softer, less forceful sounding word than "hold". In 25 years of professional flying I never mistook "position and hold" for a takeoff clearance, but near the end I twice caught myself "leaning in" to a takeoff after a "line up and wait".

[@StpBks]

Some airlines have removed the word "Take off" on final check lists and cabin announcements and substituted the word "Departure" By eliminating the word "takeoff" among crew members it helps reduce the take off bias. I believe this came from the Canary Islands investigations.

[@dphuntsman]

I did it, once- on my first solo, 54 years ago. I still feel shame about it, even now.

[@billsmith5993]

I do analysis of runway incursions, I find "Line Up and Wait" is a risky command. I don't know if it is a breakdown between pilot flying and pilot monitoring working the radios. I feel that a red green light for clearance to take off should be visible when an aircraft is formally cleared to take off should be considered. In the UK I am told they started at LHR Line up behind command where two aircraft are lined up on the runway, first one cleared to take off and then second when the first is airborne. I think that is a dangerous procedure.

[@jereberhard5529]

How about a follow-on video about uncontrolled airports... there is NO "lineup and wait" at a non control tower airport, yet many pilots taxi onto the runway and make that announcement. Often that is a runway incursion and the pilot is clueless about both NO "lineup and wait" and that they just committed a runway incursion!

[@sams2960]

think I would add some sticky back velcro over the pfd and put a red piece of flannel there when told to line up and wait. Big red STOP indicator and It would take "clear for takeoff" for me to remove it. The piece of material physically blocking the PFD view can't be missed. Just a variation on the typical "remove before flight" ribbons we remove on pre-flight walk around.

[@JMS0906]

The command used to be “taxi into position and hold”. It seemed more clear then.

[@BrettBaker]

2:41 I love his clarification. "In other words..." Seems like they changed it for no reason.

[@ADSwing85]

@@BrettBaker they likely changed to be consistent with ICAO phraseology. The “position and hold” command was only used in the USA.

[@JMS0906]

@RetreadPhoto it’s just that it seems vague as to where to line up. There could be 4 aircraft lined up before the hold short line. You’re right that it may be impatient but, if it is happening more, we need to look at why. In any case, the pilot needs to have a full understanding of the instructions and comply. Full stop.

[@JMS0906]

@@sncy5303 as long as pilots follow it, I’m fine with it. Why not change it to “slide in and chill”. 😜

[@ictpilot]

Woke FAA. Remember pilots the FAA is not your friend.

[@davidshelton7208]

0:08 we hear you LO of Aviation LO Down

[@AV8R_1]

Why did the FAA switch from "position and hold" to "line up and wait"? Has this difference increased the rate of incursion incidents?

[@C420sailor]

Where’s my old school “position and hold” gang at?

[@HongyaMa]

replaced by DEI quota hires

[@ProctorFarmer]

I’m here. 70 yrs old and back into things after 19 yrs. The old dog can learn new tricks.

[@publiux]

How about we just change the instruction to "Hold on Runway 24"?

[@TrampConnoisseur]

Line up and wait is sketchy af, why would I want to sit on an active runway longer than necessary. Not a big fan of that.

[@gcorriveau6864]

Why are we still using "DC3 Technology" in the 21st Century for such critical operations? Considering the magnitude of errors that easily occur using 'two way' VHF comms (especially at the busiest airports) I find it bizarre that the industry has not developed better tools - i.e. visual aids (traffic lights?) and/or DataLink connections.

[@ATCRDR]

This will happen when people start to die. Unfortunate and sad!

[@Pilot_engineer_19]

This is basic pilot training! What happened?😮 Maybe some new automated system could help.🤔 Great video!

[@ATCRDR]

It would have been nice if ATC actually utilized LUAW correctly as stated in 7110.65. This is not only on the pilots. Good video for pilots but ATC needs to do their part to mitigate these problems.

[@umbreonpokemon8190]

Pilots lining up and going without clearance are bad but what about ATC lining an A/C up when another is cleared to land (when the runway isn't actually clear) inside a 3 mile final causing a go around and those 2 aircraft now having a loss of separation mid-air? Seems line up and wait just to squeeze that extra aircraft in has done more harm than help

[@Brewdison217]

"lining an A/C up when another is cleared to land (when the runway isn't actually clear) inside a 3 mile final" That would be illegal... You're saying "well pilots doing this illegal thing is bad but what about this other illegal thing that no one actually did but what if?" Like... What?

[@potatytomaty9908]

Concur. Yeah, it's illegal, so idk why the comparison is even being made.

[@umbreonpokemon8190]

@@Brewdison217 "like what" more like like yeah you should probably do some research on this topic instead of picking and choosing what words to respond to. I'll help you out. Head over to avherald and search "loss of separation" it's alarming how many reports start with XXX aircraft was cleared to line up and XXX aircraft was also cleared to land thus leading to a near collision after the arriving aircraft has to abort their landing.

[@markg7963]

Love that they describe the new verbiage, “line up and wait” as the same meaning as “taxi into position and hold”. I’m not sure the new verbiage was the best choice. How about “Cessna 123, line up in position runway 22, do not dare even thinking about taking off until we say so, you freaking moron.” Make them read it back.

[@ClearedAsFiled]

ATC issues a line up and wait clearance......WTF is wrong with pilots that don't comply?????

[@takamadson]

I say the verbage should be changed the to "Pull it out and hold it" 🤣🤣🤣

[@Global8001]

Line Up And Wait is internationally recognized as the way to get an airplane lined up and be ready for departure. The word (takeoff) can and must only be initiated by the tower controller. Quite often I hear pilots responding to a LUAW with (cleared to line up), this is not a clearance, this is an instruction! There are on 3 clearances issued by TWR/GND controllers (Flight plan clearance, Landing clearance, and Takeoff clearance), everything else are instructions only and should never be acknowledged with (cleared to taxi via bla bla bla bla bla). Happy flying to all.

[@MKHNitro]

FAA asleep at the wheel with rapidly deteriorating ATC standards Issuing clearance to land with runway occupied will lead to disaster

[@obamabigears734]

135 pilots are the worst pilots I have ever seen as a check airman/sim instructor at a large airline, so I’m not surprised they are involved in these incidents.

[@Andromedon777]

I just got my CFI and Comm Multi and heading for the airlines eventually. Can you share what makes 135 pilots bad?

[@obamabigears734]

@@Andromedon777 Not used to strict SOP’s, just trying to do it their way own way, lack of ability to use automatics to their advantage.

[@Andromedon777]

@@obamabigears734 Ah gotcha. I guess that's the advantage of the route I am taking, getting used to SOP's.

[@obamabigears734]

@@Andromedon777 very much so

[@denverbraughler3948]

Line up and wait should be abolished/prohibited on any runway without verified operational takeoff hold lights (THL) immediately ahead of the wait position.

[@arthursummers7899]

Or. Don't takeoff until you hear the words "cleared for takeoff". Those are the only words that mean you can takeoff. Nothing else. There is no ambiguity.

[@denverbraughler3948]

@@arthursummers7899: That’s another problem. Pilots hear what they expect to hear. They take off when they hear a clearance for a different aircraft. Taking off just based on hearing something is unreliable.

[@txkflier]

I don't think it's natural to sit on a runway and wait. Just keep everyone off the runway until they're cleared to take off.

[@snurly8020]

Line up and wait, (reason).

[@MichaelBiegon]

Maybe go back to position and hold it's a pretty clear instruction end in HOL,D why was it changed?

[@thatguy7085]

I know it helps keep the planes moving… but…

[@classicalroach]

Y’all need some outside auditing because you’re not being held accountable

[@jochampley]

So much for the word’s premiere ATC organization. You bow down to internationalists and things go to hell. I’ll take “taxi into position and HOLD” anytime.

[@mobius7089]

You could say proceed onto the runaway and DO NOT MOVE You would still have this issue, as discussed this is not a problem with the instructions.

[@n89434]

“Line up and wait.” Brought to you by the same crowd who gave us “notice to air missions.” I miss the old days before METARs, Celsius temps on the ATIS, and other pc nonsense. If there’s a legitimate safety related reason for a given change, so be it. “Let’s be more like Europe” just doesn’t do it for me. These changes IMO reek of bureaucrats making changes to try and justify their jobs/existence.

[@josephcovino9697]

ABOLISH THE LINE UP AND WAIT, AND START KEEPING EVERYTHING OFF A RUNWAY STILL IN USE. IT IS DANGEROUS AND THUS STUPID. CFIAM JOE Lake Havasu, Arizona.

[@mobius7089]

No, no it's not. This is like saying you won't clear the aircraft for approach unless they are cleared to land.

[@Clancysway]

Line up and wait is fine, people are just stupid.

[@KenLeonard]

Human factors is the issue. It isn’t stupidity. Stop the line up and wait.

[@C420sailor]

This would absolutely cripple airports like LGA and DCA.

[@yungrichnbroke5199]

Line up and wait isn’t cleared for takeoff. But a forgetful person will sense being on the runway and then just go. Either stop using intersecting runways at the same time or just don’t use lineup and wait. I say intersecting runways are the real problem. Nobody’s going to ride the bum or another plane that just took off from the same runway so it’s fine on the same runway. If they still go the risk is minimal.

[@williambott1230]

Never been a fan of holding on a active runway. I guess it speeds things up for ATC. Sure is rolling the dice though. Sevens come up time to time and the consequences are catastrophic. Clear me for take off when I'm cleared to take off. Simple! However simple is not in the vocabulary of our government.

[@calburnIII]

My view, perhaps biased as a GA pilot flying relatively simple airplanes, is that there’s not much time savings for ATC or aircraft by using “line up and wait”. It seems to me that there’s not a whole lot of time savings for the heavy iron jockeys, either. I know that it only takes me a few seconds to taxi from the hold short line to line up and go-I already have take off flaps ready, avionics ready, lights on, and the only thing left to do once the airplane is lined up on the centerline is to make sure the DG and the runway numbers are the same. I don’t fly heavy iron, but it seems to me that other than a somewhat different ground speed taxiing out onto the runway and lining up, all of the other preflight tasks to ready the airplane for takeoff should have been done, too. So instead of allegedly saving a very small amount of time, measure in seconds, by sending an aircraft out onto the runway to wait (or hold, if you prefer), in the interests of safety, eliminate the “line up and wait” protocol altogether. Hold at the hold short line, don’t move and ATC don’t tell to move until it’s OK to clear for take off. I surmise that those aircraft which taxi past the hold short line and take off without a clearance are much fewer than those which are told to line up and wait but still take off without a clearance. That would also eliminate the distinctly unsafe situation in which ATC forgets that an aircraft has been told to line up and wait, so that the airplane is sitting there, backside to any traffic landing, which of course the pilots can’s see because airplanes don’t have rear view cameras or mirrors. Theoretically, at least one of the pilots of the waiting aircraft can see up the approach path if they’re waiting at the hold short line.