Frost DK Talent Rework | TWW Alpha

Hi guys, today I'm bringing you this Frost Death Knight The War Within Alpha Talent rework! We have got new talents, removed talents, reworked talents and moved talents!!
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[@semi6544]

If auto attack is gonna gain importance, then I wish there was a talent to extend melee range by at least 3 yards.

[@foofiesde]

They just announced that all abilities that increase melee range will be removed. Melee should be melee.

[@semi6544]

@@foofiesde -- They went the wrong way. They should have just given every melee 3 yards instead of taking it away from a few.

[@kalivann8409]

Imagine frostscythe being the last GCD in a pillar window or 2nd to last when we have frostwyrm. WHAM!

[@Guitarman5705]

I think it would be nice if dnd followed you like it does the mograine summon, would fix the issue of having to stay in one place to cleave

[@wopchomm5535]

idk about that one i think they handled it well with the 4sek they can keep it like that or remove dnd cleave

[@TwinerJack]

They've should get rid of Glacial advance and make good use of frostscythe. This spell looks so fucking good and its being wasted for years now. AoE RP spender FSc would be nice, with all benefits of GA

[@Girthsquirts]

Frost scythe got a big rework and new animation. It actually looks pretty dope, and is on a 30 sec CD, slaps damage now

[@TwinerJack]

@@Girthsquirts mate i saw the video 🙈

[@Girthsquirts]

@@TwinerJack ohhh lol I completely misread what you were saying

[@odysspanet5400]

Looks good, all I want now is dnd on a reduced gcd

[@joerich02]

Dear Blizz, please remove Death and Decay playstyle of Frost DK for M+. 1.) It doesn't fit the "Frozen" part of the Frost Death Knight as we do not rot or decay while frozen. 2.) it is stupid thank you! Regards, Frustrated FDK forced to be a BDK because I hate the DnD playstyle for FDK

[@Bridgeface]

Clicking on the video praying that Breath isnt the only option again

[@Cyl444444]

got bad news for ya brother

[@tobbhert2256]

Well during DF oblit was actually compareable to breath and even stronger in S3 iirc

[@luuxii]

​@@tobbhert2256 however both awful in M+ environment

[@thebobdonsonofthedondonsons]

​@@luuxiiI've always done fine in keys as oblit build. It's just not as good as Unholy 🥲

[@BenJonesart]

@@luuxii didnt think oblit was awful for M+ but definitely not ideal, especially in a pug environment.

[@vaethe_w]

OH YA BICEPPUMP LEAD THE CHARGE BABY

[@OldManDoom]

Okay, so I have been down on Blizz for their lack of attention to Frost, but this is promising. I love the idea of Frostscythe being now our version of to Wake of Ashes with a built in CDR, but I HATE that Blizzard is doubling down on Cleaving Strikes. It is a nearly unusable talent in Pugs as even with an extra 4 secs, there isn’t a pug tank in the game that will keep a pack of mobs in one place for more than a second. That is two GCDs, barely before it is gone. The return to dual wield is also very welcome as I tried the 2H style and it plays way too slow. That being said, our capstones are still total garbage that I may not even put points into. Total swing and a miss there Blizzard

[@BenJonesart]

i had to use the D&D slow talent to have a chance for the same problem you listed

[@kalasmournrex1470]

As an almost exclusively pug tank, I always try to keep things in DND. What I want is dps who stop attacking stuff while I'm still gathering, especially with snares.

[@Primal_Echo]

I am not a fan of having to choose 2h or DW by force. I'm a 2h lover and forcing DW made me quit the game after MoP.

[@BardiaAgharabi]

If they give frost defile then it could potentially compensate

[@OldManDoom]

@@kalasmournrex1470 I can assure you that you are the diamond in the rough and not typical. But you help other players have a better time when you do that

[@shajandarbani7991]

Objectively purely positive frost finally has more buttons to press

[@Blood_Ronin]

Good breakdown. I like the direction they are going overall, but still think some things need to change. Frost still suffers from the janky crit scaling. They changed how crit worked for paladins, I wish they would do the same for frost. What if KM didn't give 100% crit chance. Instead made obliterate 100% frost damage, while regular oblit did half frost half physical. This would allow them to adjust oblit damage across the board to be less reliable on the km procs, and the KM procs wouldn't suffer from the awkward scaling. But at the same time, hitting oblit with the KM procs would still feel good to press, when without KM currently it feels bad to hit. I think a change to KM overall would help the spec truly shine and get way from so much damage based around cds. (Though pillar could also change to help with that as well)

[@saevenar7618]

Very excited for shorter breath windows. I don't play breath specifically because I can't stand the endless breath builds now and having DW oblit potentially useful is awesome as well. Not sure on shattering with frost scythe, but eh. I can live with it.

[@NOTH4R]

I'll stand my ground, breath needs to go.

[@carlhillman7724]

Should be reworked to have a set duration, like have it be an alternative to pillar or something.

[@silvestre93ify]

They made it work with dh and fel barrage

[@stoopidyoutubehandle]

I think you mean breath time-extension play-style needs to go, which most dks agree. BoS spell itself is not a bad burst AOE CD and it is unique in all melee classes.

[@BenJonesart]

one way tthey could adjust breath is to have it based one a certain number of attacks and make it do damaged based on attacks. Say give it 20 swings then goes on cool down, that way when your running to the next pack or being off boss your not wasting it, but it wouldnt be constantly spewing out your front end.

[@louis4951]

I really thought they were going to get rid of it / bump it down to maybe switch things up and make it competitive with Remorseless winter kind of deal idk but there's something interesting there?! and make Frost Scythe FINALLY have it's time to shine as the AOE monster.. but, at least everything else is getting looked at i guess.

[@Draenal]

I'd like to see Smothering Offense increase the duration of the Icy Talons buff by a few seconds. Stacking back up to 3 stacks isn't that bad, and you can often keep it running with Glacial Advance; however, dropping 5 or even 7 stacks is going to feel *horrendous* and take a silly amount of time to restack.

[@christopherbower2163]

Frost rework looking good man! The talent reshuffle seems promising. Can't wait to see how they tune the abilities and what is good in the end. TY for the rundown man! Killin it as usual. ALL HAIL KING BICEPS!

[@midnayt3542]

how many buttons there are now to press abilities.... as if they wouldn’t choke on them

[@Sourlife.]

is this what we all are waiting for?! Biceps tell us, is it this what we want?

[@superplatinum]

I think Blizzard should swap glacial advance and avalanche and then tune glacial advance to deal the same single target damage like frost strike that way 2 handed frost would have yet another way to apply razorice stacks faster on the enemy target. I see this as a big quality of life improvement for the shattering build, and it helps making frost strike hit hard when you press it.

[@chriseggroll]

I like cryogenic chamber, felt like they could do more with frost fever. Auto attack buffs as a capstone are not very exciting but might make frost feel better to play. I like shattering blade and it's nice it will have some aoe potential but it would be cool if it were a choice node where more single target gains are added to it, like Razorice stacking 10 times or the frost strike hit that consumes the stacks does even more damage etc.

[@shadowdragon8168]

Frostsycthe being a Wake of Ashes type ability will be a lot of fun, I have loved using Wake on my ret, I am concerned about the CDR on it, frost already has a lot of CDR type stuff that is punished with downtime, so I hope they pull away from that instead of putting more in. The new capstones are pretty lackluster though, more auto attack dmg while could good would be extremely boring, I'd rather that be more of a pathing talent set then a capstone, the shattered blade one looks somewhat interesting but could be weird in AoE, having to swap between Frost Strike and Glacial sounds pretty annoying to me. The new Oblit capstone doesn't seem very interesting, could be strong though if it works similar to the SL tier set. Then Breath only got a DMG buff so I don't want to speak on that till more of the changes come in. Decent start but still has a ways to go. Edit: They need to stop putting more emphasis on Icy Talons, I was hoping they would remove it, trying to keep it up on heavy movement boss fights is extremely frustrating, and it feels horrible during any boss downtime, which frost is already punished hard for when it comes to pillar CDR and now Frostscythe.

[@Ozzyorcborne1]

The new talent system look intriguing but it feels like theres a ton of bloat in the middle. I cant say I like or dislike it yet. its nice to see the frostscythe change.

[@jaded-harper]

I like everything BUT the potential of tab targeting to different mobs to detonate shattering blade. tab targeting is just not good gameplay imo. maybe frost strike AND frostscythe should detonate them?

[@leo9528950]

Does the new Oblit Cap stone Artic Assault make it to where you dont have to weave Frost Strikes in the Pillar window since its firing off a GA? So you could just cast Oblits back to back to back lol Idk if thats the case but that would be really satisfying XD

[@kalasmournrex1470]

It's bizarre that frost scythe is still a 4x critical when it always crits. They could have just made it normal 2x critical and doubled the damage. Kind of funny.

[@UnbearablePeacock]

It reduces the value of extra critical damage.

[@Jdtv689]

some gameplay maybe?

[@kalasmournrex1470]

Couldn't you just use death coil to extend Icy Talons when you don't have uptime?

[@bill7302]

With Pillar, long winter, icecap, and enduring strength would you get to a point of almost permanent strength bonus?

[@Bicepspump]

Possibly yeah, 17 seconds pillar with 30-40 seconds effective CD

[@Trollolololol1337]

Frost's biggest problem is how hard it gets punished by downtime compared to other melees. Making autoattacks more valuable (for KM etc.) is the wrong way. Plus you have to stay in your dnd and to aim your linear glacial stuff makes it more likely to miss targets, which sounds frustrating to me. Other specs press two or three buttons without having to aim and everything explodes.

[@poglordkovok1580]

A class should have some complexities that are unique to them

[@BenJonesart]

dunno those auto attack buffs might make frost a single target beast overall but remains to be seen

[@Uncle-Ruckus.]

@@poglordkovok1580 bad complexities are bad gameplay no matter how unique.

[@louis4951]

Shiiit my biggest problem is the opener bloat. But by far and away Death and Decay absolutely makes this spec feel like dogshit.

[@Caleblmao]

Idk. I really like the changes. DW with auto attacks sustain gets me excited.

[@neziaojuara1768]

hm... Dunno how to feel about these changes. It's 100% a step in the right direction for sure but Shattered frost specifically feels like it could create a really annoying gameplay(at least for me lol), hope they change that so the Frost strike explosion also causes explosions on targets with 5 stacks of razorice and consumes them. Also everything seems a bit too dual wield focused does it not? Shattering Blade, Icy Death Torrent, The Long Winter all sound like DW specific talents to the point that I feel like even obliteration builds will focus on DW. Wonder if we're going back to the era of frost being DW only with 2H as an 'option' that's always 10~15% behind in all situations. Also sad to see BoS stay, for... 6 or so years now they've proven themselves uncapable of balancing this skill properly, just get rid of it or fully rework it for fucks sake.

[@johnwinchester3077]

Are there any compedative options to play Obliterate build with Dual wield wapeons ? Or is it only compedative with a two-handed wapeon ? What do you think about it ?

[@th3grimreap3r69]

Does 2H get nerfed at all here? Ive always preferred 2H frost so I went away from it in legion cause I dont like duel wield at all on frost. Is 2H nerfed going into TWW or nah?

[@sodawow1602]

Crazy to think frost can play breath and oblit at the same time now lol

[@Bicepspump]

Thats actually possible now as well, its just not very good

[@Adamm115]

Less breath more 2h oblit. Or find a way for 2h breath

[@clintellis4055]

I wish they would remove the strength scaling from Pillar, if you need a WA in order to optimally use a talent then it needs to be redesigned. Having to hold off on Frostwyrms for that last possible moment just feels bad.

[@Anddrew92]

I'm just gonna say it once. Frostscythe was not reworked in terms of damage and be a "Nuke" in terms of AoE. They have already put a cap target of 8 for that damage. The talent interacts minimally with the rest of the tree and on top of that, the 4 time it's damage when it crits it's from how it's currently. The only thing that they did with that talent is to put a 30s CD on that when it used to be the Killing Machine proc that we want to do when it was 3 or more targets back in legion. That's what I was hoping to see it again instead of Frost have to be the only DK spec that has no interaction with Death and Decay as they're still FUCKING forcing us to have those cleaving strikes from DD. They didn't even have a good short memory to remember the Covenant ability from Ardenweld which could be a descent option for Frost if they're still forcing us to play the dumb DD cleaving playstyle.

[@carlhillman7724]

Do you have a link to this I can not find it.

[@Dissolve03]

gameplay gameplay!

[@YA-kr4fr]

Dk content creators blue ball us so much

[@andresandrade8297]

Dual wield will be viable for obliteration build?

[@ghostrobos]

Well let's see if they'll have you off the boss a lot next expac

[@danigoz2470]

i agree. Good changes. And yes they should remove the dnd thing forever.

[@captainkribble7665]

Am I the only one wondering why they added a talent that gives you cleave when leaving dnd and could have just made dnd have no cd. Place it and go to town. Tank moves put it back down and go to town.

[@lichblaze1277]

Any idea if breath + oblit 2 hander will be playable without losing too much power, now that hysteria is gone ?

[@Bicepspump]

Still likely to be worse due to the increased KM proc rate of DW

[@dmargjr]

@@Bicepspumpso 2h oblit will be worse then dw?;(

[@BenJonesart]

i hoping they gave up on chill streak since it never made me feel good by pressing the button. I was hoping for something more on weapon choice, like a choice node for 1h or 2h ie 2h crits do more damage during pillar and 1h overall damage increased during pillar. Ive always thought obliterate hits too soft during pillar. One thing you didnt mention thats going under the radar for us puggers is the change to death and decay, if you knew how many times ive had to fight with speedy tanks that want to move the mobs out of my D&D all the damn time and leave me stranded on AOE.

[@maxpowers4436]

How does glacial advance still exist the way it does. So goofy

[@Marbo-Marbo]

Its annoying they made dnd line up well with pillar window, then they introduced longer pillar window, thanks blizz

[@MeTakingAStand]

I really do wish that they'd change cleaving strikes to interact with Remorseless Winter and baseline Defile for Unholy and make it just follow you around. D&D has been incredibly clunky to play like this for....how many years now? It more or less forces you to be at the mercy of tank play styles, which in pugs can be impossible to extract value in dungeons.

[@akaraven66]

Did they change something in the last 3 weeks, this build doesn't even work, the talent points won't let it work.

[@MaxiVera-p6m]

Give us another charge of dnd. Tired of tanks dragging mobs out of my cleave :\

[@beertrick1968]

GAMEPLAY GAMEPLAY GAMEPLAY

[@JR-rv8ww]

Still no changes to oblit cleave being tied to DND. RIP.

[@louis4951]

Honestly.. it's literally the number 1 thing and has been for a while. Well that and breath.

[@penchobogdanov2272]

I just hope for builds without d'n'd on both unholy and frost i really hated it

[@Anddrew92]

At least Unholy has Clawing shadows to range cleave while standing in DD, or to have the Defile choice for that. Frost has NO INTERACTION with the DD playstyle they're forcing on the DK to use.

[@billdole9766]

They need to get rid of this stupid dragon frost breath thing.

[@remir-kfpdeusex7806]

just take out cleaving strikes talent, its lame AF, frost never need it to smack some big pulls

[@dark9nine]

Chill streak animation has to go.

[@ztormur6504]

I can never make the desicion to play a frost DK seriously because it has this big problem ; i like Obliteration gameplay, but DON'T like the Breath gameplay at all. and i can never know if suddenly the version of frost i DON'T like becomes the go-to. to suddenly have to choose between the correct way, or the fun way that gimps my fullest potential. So how i see it, Frost DK is always gonna be a slave to that other side (Obliteration vs Breath). which is definitely bad for the health and engagement of the spec.

[@louis4951]

Frost has always been the more casual fun spec so it doesn't matter which build you pick you've always been middle to low unless your Biceps level. But this might just bump it up.

[@RhodesianSuperiority]

#DeleteBreathBuffDualWield

[@Damingo54]

Please god don’t make dual wield the meta

[@2invidious]

I really hope this is the first iteration cause the class tree is a disaster and breath doesnt seemed to have changed at all. Make breath a 1 min cd with 20-30s uptime due to ramping rp cost and maybe ill play breath.

[@lichmourne00]

We're missing the talent right before breath as well as having lost a lot of RP gen leaning into a much shorter breath window's.

[@2invidious]

@@lichmourne00 For sure, but 2 min cd in m+ sucks especially since dps outside breath is non existent. Just wish it'd be 1 min. I know they're not done, but I hope they do more with breath other than increase dmg and reduce rp gen

[@voidgrim9465]

Argh, aint happy with rework at all, whos like glacial advance... Whos like this little frostwhelps who always do ninja pulls. I guess we must suffer well. Just some talant changes no rework for DK

[@christiank.8807]

DnD still is a static piece of garbage mechanic

[@Xeanowos]

Please. Just delete Breath of Sindragosa from the game...

[@Saleh5912]

first

[@barneysoldierson54]

kinda lame I was expecting more, but its defiantly an improvement

[@Warcakes66]

No one wants DW oblit build

[@Kipacus]

Idc what the build is so long as Frost DK is no longer D tier in PvP, DW or 2H I look at as being cosmetic I just want the class/spec to be S tier again

[@elmathys7186]

I need DW, also we need a new legendary DW for DK frost.

[@sjwhater]

i hate horn of winter so much