FSU vs ACC: Legal Expert Says One Side ALREADY has UPPER HAND

[@gregorybullock231]

One thing still must be said, Thanks to ESPN and Disney for starting all of this.

[@jmath1978]

Disny will fall and so will Espn there parent and than all these conferences will have to make sense than!

[@clintlewis1715]

You mean ESPN and Fox. Yes Disney owns ESPN, but they didn't when all this got started years ago and ESPN still negotiates it's own media contracts. With that out of the way, yes, ESPN and Fox are driving this ship. They really are not to blame so much as they are the benefactors. They are just doing what corporations are supposed to do and that is to profit on the commodity (college football). If you want to place blame, you have to go all the way back to the lawsuit presented against the NCAA by Oklahoma and Georgia, but they were right to do so. Only a hand full of schools were benefiting from television exposure. The NCAA was in control of what games got televised and they profited from it. To simplify it, Oklahoma and Georgia sued the NCAA for the right to be able to negotiate media deals, because they felt underrepresented. They won and that is what open the floodgates. Suddenly schools and conferences could negotiate and profit from media contracts. The demand was already there and fledgling ESPN was the entity that was there at the right time to capitalize on it. That led to conferences starting to consolidate properties to increase their value. First was the SEC expansion, then the Big 8/SWC merger. Then followed by the Big East/ACC realignments/expansions. Eventually the Big Ten and Pac 10 got involved in the expansion game. That money war resulted in conferences really starting to cannibalize each other with the Big Ten and SEC coming out on top. With Fox and ESPN being the majority holders, that has given them the power to drive things to where they want it. Now instead of conferences completing to be the revenue leaders, it's the media giants competing to control the market. If you follow what both have been saying, the top of college football is headed for a league without conferences or NCAA oversight.

[@mnshws12]

Disney and ESPN had nothing to do with this. Your starting QB is transferring! Tate Rodemaker figured out he won’t make it next year. FSU had no business getting in and the team realized it. I just wish the delusional fans would have realized that 2 weeks ago.

[@RustburgMike]

Yeah, it sure sucked not being able to see most college games before ESPN came along.

[@jimkelley5812]

Got to believe that FSU wouldn't go to the time and expense of filing this lawsuit unless the felt they had a case. You can bet FSU is looking for any and all loop holes. My guess is that FSU and the ACC reach some sort of agreement and the Noles will seek greener pastures.

[@jamesfountain6183]

Big 10

[@Benginafantaisie]

@@jamesfountain6183prayerfully

[@georgesealy4706]

The ACC will want SOME money, to be sure. And FSU will be happy to give them SOME money to leave. The money that FSU gives the ACC will serve as a benchmark for other teams in the ACC should they want to leave. And life goes on.

[@jamesfountain6183]

@@georgesealy4706 I have 5 dollars for the ACC

[@jmath1978]

FSU is locked in they made the deal and they are going to have to live with it or Pay the ACC period! People are always trying to break deals I dont feel sorrry for FSU!

[@davidt62]

Excellent summary-I respect FSU taking its time to fully understand and appreciate the history of this contract and its weaknesses. They didn’t just jump the gun. Thank you Doug for your time and expertise!

[@thesurfdocchannel8341]

Super insightful. Better than anything I’ve seen on any media platform yet. Thank you 🙏

[@observer46-vh5bm]

I am a lawyer (for nearly 50 years) and Doug Rohan is an excellent guest. Great discussion, He may wind up being wrong, but for a lawyer he is finding and focusing on the issues. That recognition is the key.. The answer comes later. Good questions from you. Great job by both of you. As Doug knows, a kernel of corn is consideration (contracts 101 in law school). Here there might have been no corn at all Only a few ACC schools have a landing place. The weakened ACC should survive. Any backroom talk has to be FSU talking to the B1G and the B1G not hanging up on the call. No negotiations now.

[@tomdemay6147]

a bunch of ACC schools have a landing spot. There are a couple teams and the new teams that will be SOL. Wake Forest / BC / Syracuse might be in tough shape as well as Cal/Stanford/SMU (who cares). Even other "lower" teams like Duke or Pittsburgh will be picked up by Big 12 for sure.

[@thebrotherhood6391]

​@@tomdemay6147Duke lower team, lmfao that's hilarious. Duke is the standard in college basketball. Duke & UNC are the mecca of college hoops and they're both right here in my backyard. How many national Championships has fsu won in basketball in tbe last 30,40,50,60 years? Fsu hasn't won anything in years. Duke football won its 5th straight bowl game today, maybe not a national power yet but they're coming. Had fsu on the ropes until a dirty play by fsu took out Duke qb Riley Leonard, until then Duke was blanking fsu. Haters gonna hate Happy Holidays to All

[@observer466]

@@tomdemay6147 Unless the B1G and SEC go super big, they will take maybe four schools. How many can or will the Big 12 take? More than four? There are definitely schools in the ACC that fit the Big 12 very well, but will the Big 12 want that many more members?

[@tomdemay6147]

@@observer466 4 for Big 10 2-4 for SEC 4-6 by Big 12

[@tomdemay6147]

@@thebrotherhood6391 bro no disrespect to Duke. It is what it is. They aren't a football school. Football is driving expansion not basketball. Big 10 or SEC wont be taking Duke. They aren't in discussion. However Big 12 probably will to secure a footprint in North Carolina.

[@VanLifeStorytelling]

Good presentation - The attorney stated at the end that since there was no consideration during the 2016 contract extension that the contract is no longer valid. In addition, he pointed out a concept of reasonable reliance where a contract is valid ONLY when you rely on the other party to do what they said they are going to do.

[@trick7884]

The acc "got" a delayed-launch, less-revenue-generating version of a conference network than the SEC for that 2016 gor extension. Is that not "consideration"? What I don't get, is why the gor was extended to 2036 when the accn was only guaranteed by espn through 2027. I would've liked to hear something about how valid/enforceable the gor is beyond 2027 without the acc currently having any agreed upon tv rights beyond then, considering the gor is, in part, to expressly allow acc to exercise the espn media rights agreement. And I'd have liked to hear about commissioner Phillips changing the terms of the media agreement with espn, to allow them to defer the 9-year extension clause deadline to 2025, without Phillips requiring a 2/3 consenting vote from member institutions.

[@Mark-rw3kw]

This lawyer is a FSU undergrad and FSU Law school graduate, so what do you think he is going to say.

[@davidvines6498]

Did FSU hold up their position by having a winning season each year since 2013? What was the viewership or Ratings per game of the ACC vs the SEC since 2013?

[@Mark-rw3kw]

That lawyer is an FSU grad (undergrad and law school) and he caters his legal business to other FSU alumni, so I would not take what he says as gospel. It was just a theoretical argument. I don't think that the ACC "promised" that they could achieve any specific results, other than try and negotiate the best deal with the TV networks. They don't have to be successful in that regard, they just have to exercise reasonable due diligence and fiduciary duty. If you pay a lawyer to represent you in a criminal case, the lawyer doesn't give the money back if you are convicted. If the case was tried at a neutral location, I don't think FSU can prove that the ACC was negligent in performing their duties on behalf of member schools. Obviously, FSU will win likely the first round if the case is tried in FL, but it likely will be appealed to a higher court, and possibly Federal court.

[@GoTherefore]

This is outstanding coverage. Way to go above and beyond basic football opinion. This is quality content.

[@LilBoiPeep69]

it ok i guess

[@thomaslepage2840]

lol 😂

[@jeffreymclean9958]

Thanks for the information! As a die-hard Seminole graduate and fan, it seems quite obvious that we need to join the SEC. The SEC is where the most competitive teams are and where the most $$$ is! No matter what it takes, can FSU leadership get us in the SEC, please? Disney and ESPN $$$ (one in the same) and much more FUN and competitive games. It will pay off big time in the long term if we can get into the SEC. Some will argue for other conferences, but the truth is, the SEC is simply best. FSU has a sterling reputation in many different academic and sports disciplines. FSU leadership, have those discussions and negotiations and do everything you can to get into the SEC. It is where FSU belongs!

[@dougrohan6746]

I don’t want to see, or hear anything related to the SEC or ESPN again. Fox me baby!

[@DaninVa-gt9nj]

Jeffrey, I am a USC GC fan and would like to see FSU in the SEC BUT as you know FSU shortsightedly said NO to SEC membership back in the early 90s. SEC might still be POed about that public humiliation. FSU's true rivals are in the SEC not in frozen tundra land.

[@raymondscott7804]

Miami fan. I’m glad that FSU sued the ACC. Disney/ESPN is the true culprit. They defrauded the ACC with the TV deal because they knew they were going to sign the $3 Billion deal with the SEC. That’s why the Big 10 omitted ESPN from its last TV deal. The SEC, ESPN, and CFP should be sued for antitrust violations. How is it a SEC team is always in the CFP no matter the outcome on the field

[@jmath1978]

Could not have said it better!

[@RMartin32975]

WOW!!! It's been years since I've seen Doug! Was in the Marching Chiefs with Doug back in the mid 90s. Loved hearing all you guys had to say. I now live in Ann Arbor, so hope the Big10 sends FSU and invite sometime soon. Would love to see the Noles in the Big House!

[@dougrohan6746]

Hey Richard!!!

[@henryhenry2752]

Thanks TJ, this gentleman gave the best explanation I've heard so far.

[@terryfox9344]

Thank you, thank you, thank you. Finally, someone talks about the lawsuit using language that I know and love. On virtually every other site, its like listening to a Russian who has never spoken a word of English reading Shakespeare. I hear a word here or there but nothing really makes sense, because they don't know what the heck they are reading. I have 3 takeaways on this information. First, I appreciate the identification of the significance of the venue, jurisdiction, and choice of law questions. Most commenters totally ignore these questions like they don't exist. Second, I also appreciate the explanation of the issue of unconscionability of the contract, which I did not fully understand. Normally, university presidents are not illiterate and subject to coercive pressure to sign contracts that they do not understand. However, as your guest explained, the difference in power between the president and the conference may have been so great that the president was "forced" to sign. Third, thanks for explaining the following "arguments" that were mentioned by others: antitrust, breach of contract, fiduciary duty, and the significance of 2027. When I hear the term "antitrust issue", I immediately think of the specialized area of the federal antitrust statutes and their interpretation. It appears that is not what FSU is arguing. Instead, your guest clarifies that the real argument is an everyday common legal public policy argument. Your guest specifically cited some of the ways the ACC allegedly breached its contract. Your guest also gave examples of instances where the ACC allegedly violated its fiduciary duty to FSU. Finally, your guest explained that the real issue was not 2027, which never made any sense to me, but 2016 and an alleged lack of consideration for the contract, which absolutely DOES make legal sense. I can't say that I think that FSU will "win", but it does appear to me that there are issues here that aren't frivolous.

[@dougrohan6746]

Thank you very much for your feedback! I really appreciate it.

[@Donovan_Williams]

ACC Secret Plan: assign even worse referees to FSU games to make even worse calls

[@mrsir2830]

Is that even possible?

[@jamesfountain6183]

Sounds about right 😂

[@jamesfountain6183]

​@@mrsir2830yes

[@rich7430]

I say we show a compilation video of ACC refs screwing FSU during trial as evidence 😂

[@jamesfountain6183]

@rich7430 no one has that much time to watch lmao

[@nah3193]

The ACC has literally never once acted in FSU's interest. I hope they don't play ball and we walk scott free

[@micahwest5347]

I’m not concerned about the tax. I hope they walk away penalty free.

[@roris5882]

The ACC didn't even file a lawsuit against ESPN and their shady Playoff Committee for scrooging FSU and the conference out of Playoff representation and money.

[@georgesealy4706]

Hmmm. . . to be fair the ACC did arrange for TV contract money and they did provide conference administration. FSU took the ACC's deal. FSU is NOT walking away Scot-free. This case will go on for years unless FSU pays something. If they desire, the ACC can pay lawyers for years and years to tie up FSU. Meanwhile, FSU suffers legal fees AND opportunity costs. FSU has to make a deal and go on their way. This lawsuit just started the negotiation process that's all.

[@basedjiren3889]

They will never walk away for free. FSU is hoping to scare them into a settlement

[@jmath1978]

Thats not happening FSU will pay every bit of the $ and become a weaker team if they leave the ACC good bye!

[@jamesflagg3020]

All ACC schools that want out need to file suits against the ACC also.

[@jmath1978]

No they dont becuase alot of them want get better deals! FSU will and needs to pay to get out and go to another conference and be a weaker team!

[@rich7430]

@@jmath1978 What kind of clown 🤡 goes to homer channels to make posts like this? Appreciate you commenting and helping an FSU channel with the KZbin algorithm! 🤡

[@DoubleFriesNoSlaw]

Good luck, Jmath1978

[@HumbleJames2177]

@@jmath1978lol I’m definitely for sure fsu won’t be a weaker team in the sec or big 10 we ate a top program and have been for a long time and we bring the most money revenue for the acc and in top 10 in tv revenue as well. The sec don’t want us to join cause they know we will take over and mess the recruits for bama and big ten want us to join cause it will help compete against the sec

[@noelramirez1551]

​@@HumbleJames2177lol I bet Nebraska thought the same when they joined the Big 10 just be honest you're sacrificing wins for money because if FSU goes to big 10 or SEC they're going to be a Tennessee type program good but never good enough

[@xmositoxc147]

He might be an FSU fan, but his responses seemed unbiased. He stated both sides of the story... ultimately up to a judge to decide. Big10 fan here hoping for a Florida pipeline

[@michaelward2898]

That’s how law works, if he had bias, he wouldn’t be a good legal counsel

[@Benginafantaisie]

@@michaelward2898you’d be surprised. Many lawyers are very biased towards their case. They will find any and everything that will support the side of the person/people they are defending

[@xmositoxc147]

@michaelward2898 correct and I just heard a video from a UNC or ACC where the legal consul started unbiased and quickly became an ACC fanboy...

[@flch95]

Pipeline should go both ways. We need some of them OL dudes y’all seem to have in abundance. You can have them diva south Florida skill players lol.

[@josecuervo3351]

Maryland fan here. I wish FSU best of luck getting out of the Tabacco Road Conference. Joining the BIG has worked out well for Maryland, the grass is indeed greener on the other side. All the over the top hate UMD received from the ACC nation and ESPN talking heads seems downright inconsequential at this point. Imagine if FSU had joined UMD in their jump to the BIG, instead of Rutgers.

[@stevenbland2736]

Even a lay person can understand that... well done @DougRohan.

[@brannonshea8424]

Thanks TJ and Doug for the insight 💪🏼

[@davidwest2697]

the letter of response to our action was longer and initiated within 24hrs or in the case of the suit BEFORE hand. But, when we get screwed over and the undefeated ACC champ gets snubbed barely a page response and days later. THAT on its own is ALL you need

[@LilBoiPeep69]

fsu is weak

[@davidwest2697]

@@LilBoiPeep69 😂😂😂😂😂😂🤡

[@LilBoiPeep69]

@@davidwest2697 it is funny. boys go 13-0 and get left out. not to just one 1-loss team, but two!! you could consider fsu a mid major now

[@richardperritti5916]

This going to get interesting. If I had to make a guess, a deal will be cut at some point. Why? You have the Attorney General of Florida investigating and now you have a filing by FSU against the ACC. What could happen is in-depth discovery and depositions. My gut feeling tells me, the CFP, ACC, SEC, ESPN/Disney and individuals involved are not going to fair well if this gets going. As they say, "now you have opened it up." To close the total opening up a deal will be cut. FSU will go to the Big10, most likely, and the ACC will do whatever. Is the ACC really going to fight to keep FSU in the ACC? Please. Let's say for some reason that is the result. FSU will be major pain going forward and will protest and fight everything the ACC wants. Cut a deal and call it a day.

[@JamieBaby250]

Bad guess. Different states, different laws, different jurisdictions, iron clad contracts, and private entities. I would make the same moves but it’s not going to go anywhere. I live in Florida & can tell you the politics are just that. Moody & DeSantis want votes but have no legal precedent to do anything. A Demand letter is actually nothing. FSU needs to prove they didn’t know what they were signing. However, they didn’t really have to sign and chose to. The FL AG getting involved is going to comeback on them. If she could get involved now, then she could’ve have then. FSU can’t prove that the ACC didn’t have their best interest bc the other schools got the same deal. FSU is basically just angry that they didn’t get more. However, that isn’t part of the deal. Being scared, intimidated and making a lesser deal with assumed lesser schools, isn’t illegal.

[@georgesealy4706]

I agree that a deal will be negotiated or arbitrated. FSU will pay something and that will be that. The ACC doesn't have to "fight" FSU. All they have to do is litigate and litigate with their lawyers and make it painful for FSU to stay around. ACC will just keep filing brief after brief thereby chewing up time and FSU's money. FSU is smart enough to know this, and you can bet they have deal money waiting somewhere.

[@JamieBaby250]

@@georgesealy4706 I would tend to agree. However, these same lawyers signed these agreements twice. Now they are saying they didn’t know what they were signing. So, if this is the case, I can’t trust they truly know what they are doing. What I do understand is that there is enough money to fight and see how far they can get bc the alternative is them being stuck for another 10yrs. Not to mention they signed this in 2016. Why is this an issue in 2023. The ACC isn’t responsible for them being left out of the playoffs. Now I think FSU should want out but they are only thinking of their program. The ACC negotiated on behalf of all of the schools. They really should sue Disney. But they know they can’t fight Disney. They aren’t thinking about Disney putting money behind the ACC or the fact that they will spend the buyout money on litigation alone and it could be dragged out for 10yrs.

[@AEMoreira81]

The real target is the ACC. But a telling sign is that the ACC sued first before FSU could sue. FSU now believes that the TV deal runs out in 2027 and cannot be extended until 2036, because the deadline for that was in 2021, and not properly extended by former commissioner John Swofford (he extended it to 2025 but never scheduled a vote for it). Florida State believes it will win. At that point, it will be a run to the exits for the teams that can in the ACC. The real teams to look at would be on the West Coast. Remember that Stanford and Cal (both in the Bay Area) were passed over by both the Big 12 and the B1G as they poached the Pac-12, which is all but done after the winter and spring sports are finished.

[@ericwilson2632]

​@@JamieBaby250😂🎉😂🎉 So you ok eating fish while everyone else eat steak..😂🎉

[@carybensilhe4869]

I grew up a huge ACC fan, but over the years they way they have catered to UNC, especially after the academic/fake class scams really soured me on them. I could careless if the whole conference crumbles and hope FSU can win this lawsuit. I think they are right, the ACC laid down on the playoff ordeal ,but had this been UNC, they would have spared no cost with the lawyers.

[@jmath1978]

FSU likes wasting money! They can pay and leave and be a fovever mid tier team in another conference!

[@vivahernando1]

To UNC? I'm a NC State fan/grad how has UNC been relevant the last decade plus to what the ACC does? It's been FSU and Clempson running the show for a while and now ur mad 🤔🤔

[@douglastuten5340]

@@jmath1978get a girlfriend

[@michaelmoser4728]

​@vivahernando1 really I'm pretty sure VT won the ACC 4 out if it's first 7 years in the league so stop yanking your own chain no team in the ACC has been great. When you have ESPN stumping for the SEC and BIG10 during ACC game then where do you think high school kids are gonna go. ESPN and FOX drove this conf. In the ground to build their cash cow the SEC. Florida st sucked for years miami still sucks unc still sucks VT sucks because espn recruits for their money conference bottom line. If FSU gets in the big10 they will still play second fiddle to OHIO ST and MICHIGAN and in the SEC they will play 3rd or fourth fiddle.

[@ellaluna5514]

Former ACC Commissioner was a UNC-CHeat guy with the NCAA screwing up the Lack of Institutional Control issue for the CHeats.

[@BillJohnston-y7o]

Miami fan here, great show today.

[@flch95]

Y’all coming or staying lil’ bros?! lol.

[@BillJohnston-y7o]

@@flch95 We're coming but soon to be your daddy. lol You guys had a great year and a perfect fit QB until he went down. I think Miami gets Ward, besides his fumbles he's a great player. I don't see you guys winning next year, Miami has brought in some really good players this year. It's always better when Miami and FSU are on top, it just seems right. When your coach was signed I knew he was going to be a problem. Even when your fan base and ours were ripping him. He's a very good coach. Mario will have to out recruit you guys to win. lol I think he did so far in this class, lots of way under rated players. GL

[@flch95]

@@BillJohnston-y7o yeah y’all trenches looking nasty the next few years no doubt. I think we got some good skill players and it’s still a good class on top of why we have. I’m souring on Ward by the day. Those fumbles scare me lol. That’s how you lose close games, ie strip sack fumble-six etc. Game should be good next year. Much rather y’all rivalry over Florida. At least I don’t remember any of y’all spitting in our players faces. Wouldn’t mind y’all dropping 50 on them next year.

[@BillJohnston-y7o]

@@flch95 I agree, 17 fumbles, I'd pass, they should have taken the kid from KS, better runner. I guess they think with a better line he won't get chased as much. He's does have a great arm though. I sat with the FSU fans in the 93 game, we had a great time. FSU is my second favorite team, always root for you guys against F, I don't like that team at all. For twenty years our lines have been trash, now it's changing, without the big guys you can't compete.

[@stevelenores5637]

In my opinion I would think the North Carlina filing should be found without standing. Unless or until FSU files in court ACC filing would be arguing against air as FSU hadn't acted yet. FSU gets first bite and should be tried in Florida. (Not an attorney and this my personal opinion).

[@garlandalmarode6396]

Nah, it should be in NC.

[@stevelenores5637]

@@garlandalmarode6396 They do say the Devil takes care of his own. Sometimes we have to endure tribulation unjustly. In that case ACC could win the jurisdiction but it would be a travesty.

[@Mmmmchocolate]

Acc is all in to destroy itself.

[@JimMooney-yg6cd]

Hoping FSU gets out of a spineless (board members)conference. You ACC President and others up there are a major reason FSU had No chance of getting into the 4 title spots, and I’m not even a big FSU fan and I’m pulling for them to get away from your conference. FSU go to the Big 10. I would say the SEC , but for some reason I think (ESPN) will try to stop it. Pulling for FSU not to be a slave to the ACC…. We(ACC) would let you (FSU) go, but you don’t have the money to buy yourself out, so you (FSU) have to stay in our(ACC) conference and do what we say and you can’t do anything about…. Sounds like modern day slavery to me… FSU I hope you win and break free from places like the ACC ….

[@philippserrin8268]

I only see two likely resolutions to this dispute. First scenario is that FSU pays the ACC something like $200 million to let them leave the deal early (USC and UCLA paid $50 million to leave one year early). Second scenario is that the ACC (wanting to survive as a conference) agrees to give FSU a “share and a half” in the TV distribution formula. Wake Forest, as an example, probably does not bring many viewers to the TV audience and maybe does not “deserve” to get as much as an FSU that brings a lot of viewers.

[@jmath1978]

You FSU fans are smoking something if you think any of those 2 options are likely!

[@AEMoreira81]

@@jmath1978-- Since that time, FSU lawyers have discovered that the deadline for ESPN to decide was improperly extended until 2025 from 2021 (one of the final acts of former commissioner John Swofford before he retired). Swofford is retired, but he is coming back to haunt the ACC here.

[@joenop3393]

My Neighbor is a Lawyer and We say FSU to the Big 10!!

[@mikemclendon4962]

How long does take when you have a 30 million a year unfair disparity before you act ? Not to mention cut out of splitting a 100 million dollar game . Do the math. As an old Nole , we are ready to be in a conference that is known for sub par to the play off committee.

[@noelramirez1551]

Lol and the whole reason fsu joined the ACC was because it was an easier conference......I hope they do go to the big 10 or SEC just so they can go 8-4 every year

[@kodiakgriz2296]

Love the revenue calibration by this counselor... as a quant dude very effectively elucidated US in the path out

[@wordofpromise]

Great discussion and information!! Go Noles!!

[@stevengrizzle]

What about notre dame, raycom, etc ... would those be relevant? Also what about the University having sov immunity potentially?

[@georgeblake4281]

It's absolutely amazing that out of a gazillion lawyers in the litigious country of the United States, this dude couldn't find a non avid FSU fan.

[@brandondenney4832]

My NOLES have been needing to get out of the ACC for a while. Now it's time

[@davida4766]

Thanks for the info. As an FSU alum, I'm nervous about this being handled in court. I have no experience. When I read a document that says the ACC will secure significant funds for its member institutions, I get really nervous. It sounds to me like we have to argue about the definition of "significant funds." Sounds like a losing proposition to me personally. Hope that I'm wrong.

[@garlandalmarode6396]

It is, the Acc isn't at the bottom of the payouts. It's not at the Sec level, but it was above others. They were represented by the Acc.

[@davida4766]

@@garlandalmarode6396I’d be curious to know if it’s standard contracts that the Acc members are locked up through 2036 with only an agreement to receive money through 2027. Seems punitive at face value.

[@genfari9522]

I think too they should say we didn't receive any representation from the ACC with the CFP.

[@zacharyforzetting8476]

Very informative video, thanks TJ

[@YoSoyDeWehPamBeash]

Love listening to this channel, often times while I’m working out doors and have my AirPods in. This episode had WAY too many ads! Stopping and taking my phone out of my pocket to hit skip on back to back ads, what felt like every 5 minutes was too much. Hope this is not the new norm. Thanks. Go Noles.

[@DoubleFriesNoSlaw]

Sorry about that. KZbin recently changed the way they do ads and they are automatically placing them on many channels now. I apologize about it being overwhelming. Hoping it was a one off. Go Noles!

[@fsujd]

Great job Doug. But, you say FSU is doing this on a hope BIG takes us. I hope we don't end up in the Big 12 because we didn't really have a landing spot.

[@DoubleFriesNoSlaw]

I cannot imagine a scenario where FSU would do this and not be confident they were landing in the B1G or SEC.

[@joshsalmons1867]

If they let FSU out easy, other acc schools would want to do the same thing. Only a handful of schools in the ACC take football seriously. Football is the money maker in sports. Money has everything to do with how successful you are.

[@garybishop6501]

I can assure you that FSU didn’t file this without knowing exactly what their options are upon leaving the ACC. Lawyers and analysts have been working on this for over a year so FSU is confident on 1)FSU is leaving the ACC and can pay for it and 2)FSU knows what conference(s) they will be invited to join.

[@georgesealy4706]

I agree completely. As I said above, FSU didn't jump off the diving board not knowing how deep the water was. FSU has a cadre of smart businessmen and donors behind them. Filing the lawsuit is just a means to start the negotiation process.

[@jmath1978]

FSU is greedy and this only benefits the lwayers and the outcome want be great for FSU if they come up with the dough to leave!

[@georgesealy4706]

@@jmath1978 It's just business. It's indicative of what college football has become. There are some college students making more money playing football than the people in the stands.

[@georgesealy4706]

@@francoisdillinger9992 Hmmm. . . so it seems that you are saying that the B1G is intentionally trying to harm and interfere with the contract between FSU and the ACC? Why? For the B1G's gain? That would be difficult to prove given that 1.) FSU has publicly stated their unhappiness with the ACC contract and their situation for well over a year. 2.) The B1G has a fat TV contract already in place and is doing financially better than every other conference. There is no need to interfere with the FSU/ACC contract. The bottom line is that the B1G does not need FSU. 3.) The B1G has stated and acted repeatedly not to get involved until teams make contact with them. This is what happened with the PAC-12 teams. I am sure that the B1G has covered their butt with documentation. They are not stupid, and they have smart lawyers too. So yeah, maybe ACC/ESPN will bring such a lawsuit but I highly doubt it would go anywhere.

[@DaninVa-gt9nj]

@@francoisdillinger9992 Don't think so. A conference has to directly approach a target for that to happen but there's nothing illegal about a conference member approaching another conference about membership.

[@ericlofroos2405]

EXCELLENT GUEST! Finally, someone who knows what the F**K they’re talking about. Thanks for sharing!

[@EzraChance]

And also happens to be the biggest FSU homer out there 🤣

[@denniswinston9274]

I wonder what would happen if another acc team joined FSU in the lawsuit?

[@jimkelley5812]

Good questioon! You can bet Clemson, Miami, and North Carolina isn't happy with their deal with the ACC. It looks like they are just sitting back and letting FSU take the lead. If FSU is successful, the flood gates will open!

[@roris5882]

Clemson, UNC, Miami, the Virginia schools, and ND should file similar lawsuits against the ACC. That will help dial up the pressure by exposing ESPN and the ACC's shady activities.

[@jmath1978]

Not goling to happen those programs would get blacked balled$$$!

[@TennesseeNole]

@@jmath1978dude..you’re literally on every comment looking ignorant. You have no knowledge of legal law at all and it shows. Just some troll of a rival school or some ACC meat rider. Go take a nap and cry into your pillow when FSU breaks up this 🗑️ conference they have been carrying for years.

[@AEMoreira81]

I think FSU wins. That unilateral extension of the deadline from 2021 to 2025 for ESPN to decide to extend the contract to 2036, without getting formal approval? A huge unforced error! Because the TV deal only runs to 2027, I have to wonder what Cal, Stanford, and SMU were told as well.

[@thomashutchinson1259]

Why couldn't the AG for Florida invalidate or bring a challenge to the validity of the current agreement? If this is indeed a violation of Florida law, then that would seem appropriate.

[@seminolewarrior1626]

Yeah, let's get out of this trash conference. Go, Noles! I'm still salty about getting screwed out of the playoff.

[@Prettynolegirl]

@@DNSKansashow you hate FSU so much but you are on every board that mentions FSU. You are a low key fan and certified 🤡

[@OnlyNolesknow]

​@DNSKansas bruh JT said it best. 1 person doesn't make a team....make it make sense 🙄

[@seminolewarrior1626]

@@DNSKansas this is a ridiculous statement. It says more about a team that can without their starting qb 2 games and then win a 3rd game with their 3rd string. Go play with ESPN's jock strap somewhere else.

[@roris5882]

The SEC cucks don't want FSU leaving the ACC because they will go to the B1G to help them generate more revenue to steal all their best players because they can pay them more.

[@jmath1978]

And FSU will end up leaving this trash confernece where they are a superpower in football and end up being midtier at best in another conference!

[@SurferRC]

Why they signed a 20 year deal is ridiculous. Didnt the AD that signed the deal leave too!?

[@michaelwankewycz6209]

In 2022 Jordan Travis played great in beating LSU, Oklahoma, and almost beat a Clemson team that was much better than this year's Clemson team. This season, he missed 2 important games and his stats weren't as good pretty much across the board. He didn't even crack the top 10 in Heisman voting in 2022. Yet, Jordan was the top vote getter not invited to the awards this season, ultimately finishing 5th in the Heisman, even with a comp % around 50th, QBR around 40th and had a 1.7 yards per rush average. That, ladies and gentlemen, is how you sell a narrative. They needed an excuse and all they had was that a good, not great, QB was injured. So now Jordan Travis is one of best. Just ignore all the QBs and other position players that get drafted way ahead of him this Spring.

[@tpl3322]

Are there no choice of law / venue provisions in the underlying grant of right agreement? Strange.

[@Yougotadollar]

I think FSU is just the first team to sue the ACC.

[@Checkyourselfatthedoor]

Great video thank you

[@atkkeqnfr]

Good stuff guys!

[@LeaveChildrenAlone]

All I have to say is DISCOVERY. It will all come out during the discovery phase. Emails, phone calls, texts, physical documents. This is going to be epic. FSU is taking on the ACC and the State of Florida taking on Disney again plus the CFP and ALL the committee members.

[@gidnik]

no it wont. i dont think it will ever get to that phase. too much to lose.

[@AEMoreira81]

The ACC ended up suing first. It is ultimately going to boil down to just FSU and the ACC, as FSU lawyers believe that the deadline that's in force for the TV deal to be extended is February 2021, which came and went long ago.

[@tonyablackerby1322]

READ THE CFP BYLAWS !!!! 🎉🎉🎉🎉

[@philippserrin8268]

Many many years ago, when it seems like we had our choice of new conferences (SEC or ACC), I thought we made the right choice by going to the ACC. In hindsight, we made a mistake. That is understandable given that it was impossible to anticipate or predict the way that college football has changed, but it as still a mistake.

[@johnc.reedsr8001]

We did not have a choice UF voted against us along with a few other schools and the offer was retracted

[@georgesealy4706]

Hindsight is always 20-20. Joining the ACC was not a mistake. There are some really great schools and teams in the conference. What was a mistake was the length and terms of the contract.

[@jmath1978]

FSU wouldnt have won all of those cahampionships if they was not in the ACC they need to sat put and be 1 of the best teams with Clemson in the ACC!

[@jmath1978]

@@DNSKansas And FSU want be great if they leave the ACC but there greed will kill them if they leave!

[@noelramirez1551]

Yea .....10 years from now you're going to be saying the same thing why did FSU leave the ACC when they're constantly having 7-5 8-4 seasons and not making the 12 team playoffs

[@jakeeasterwood3204]

It’s pretty simple. It doesn’t take that much thought. FSU and Georgia both got screwed this season. FSU chose to set on the bench and get pummeled by the arguably best coaching staff and team in the country. FSU blew off an awesome gift to show what they had. As a Dawgs fan I im highly disappointed in what was a much better team than we saw Saturday.

[@debrabillard8458]

Great job, Doug and TJ! Thank you for breaking this down and making it understandable. I’m a retired criminal defense attorney and these issues are not in my wheelhouse at all. Excellent discussion! Thanks again!

[@DoubleFriesNoSlaw]

You are the best, Deb! ❤️🍢

[@dougrohan6746]

Thanks Deb!!

[@TomcatandSons]

Unfortunately this needed to happen. Fsu and clemson are all the acc has in football. The acc has failed these two programs. Fsu wont be the only the school to try and leave. Fsu opened the doors for others. I believe this is the spark that ends the acc...

[@keithdarnell5500]

I hate the ACC always did, the ACC is al about protecting and promoting the Carolina basketball those four teams, the only reason they added the noles , canes , and some of the other football schools is to gain the huge football money for their beloved carolina basketball teams. the Acc just cares about basketball,

[@LilBoiPeep69]

@@keithdarnell5500thats a dumb response

[@willn851]

The SEC got a better deal because it’s worth more on tv, the ACC got a worse deal because it’s not worth as much. That isn’t proof that the ACC was negligent, it’s just not worth as much. Also, just because someone got a better rate on their mortgage for their house it doesn’t mean I can sue the bank that leant me money for a lower rate all of a sudden.

[@bk6678]

The real problem wasn’t the ACCs inability or weakness to negotiate. The real problem was on the field. From 2015 - 2022, FSU was 32 &32 in league play, Miami sucked, and VT slipped. Only Clemson performed. The football teams didn’t do their part to make ACC football more valuable to ESPN.

[@LLDoubleD93]

2015,2016 they won ten games each... From 2017-2021 they had 3 different head coaches and even during this time they were still the most watched team in the acc 😂

[@robertsanders6858]

the $138-$168 million exit fee is all but carved in stone. FSU signed on for it, not once but twice. The only question is that of the GOR and if it is actually an inforceable contract. Not just the ACC but Disney/ESPN/ABC will have something to say about that as well. FSU has a real uphill battle to not pay less than $300m to get out even if they end up with media rights. The GOR was also filed in Deleware so my bet is it ends up in Federal Business court in that state rather than in either Florida or North Carolina.

[@Mike-sp7zv]

Great episode

[@brentgregory1307]

Big Ten alum here(Purdue). We are not interested in FSU unless they achieve AAU academic status. Academics matter to us, unlike in the SEC.

[@scottriggins9174]

Just for clarification on the AAU. I read that Nebraska is the only institution to be voted out of the AAU.

[@thelangertcommercialgroup]

I'm a Big Ten alum, too. Somehow I didn't get the invitation for the meeting where you were annointed the spokesman for the conference. Obviously, you did zero research before you spewed this junk. FSU as a school is ranked 53rd in the nation per the U.S. News and World Report. Nebraska is 159th. Iowa is 93rd. Indiana is 73rd. Penn State and Michigan State are tied for 60th. Minnesota is tied for 53rd with FSU. My alma mater (Maryland) is 46th...hardly enough places ahead of FSU to brag or malign with a straight face. Similarly, your alma mater is 44th. "We're" letting in 98th ranked Oregon and 40th ranked Washington. Where in all of these facts do you find justification for your comment about FSU? Let's put this in an athletic context. What would you say if the 44th ranked football (or basketball or any other sport) team was talking crap to the 53rd ranked team? You'd laugh, and so would the rest of us. Seems like you just don't want one more team that will paste an ugly "L" on your team's record every single year. By the way, the Big Ten is indeed a good athletic conference (but almost indistinguishable in that regard from the ACC where FSU plays now). However, the Big Ten has exactly one school ranked in the US News top 20, and four inside the top 40 (a couple of them barely). UCLA and USC will help in that regard, but Washington and (especially Oregon) won't. Stop acting like FSU is Alabama (ranked 170th) or LSU (ranked 185th).

[@BNSF39]

College football is expensive. Ohio State!!! had to take out a loan during covid I think it was to make it through the next year or so. Ohio State!!! One of the largest Colleges in the country! Another reason why FSU has a case with falling behind just for operating costs alone!

[@css31069]

I don't see how the ACC can limit the disclosure on whatever buyout they agree to because you're talking about state money. AKA, taxpayer money.

[@stevengrizzle]

No quality program would enter into this contract, as evidenced by no quality programs entering into this contract.

[@TulsaSooner1979]

Around 9:50 - the ACC brand was on par w/ the SEC back in 2010?! That’s laughable. Other than that, well-stated analysis.

[@jagblue81]

Fsu talked all that shit about the acc and leaving before the season and then gets mad no acc members stood up on their behalf in the playoff committee.

[@susanmoss7938]

what about the Florida 5 year statute of limitation issue and the reliance argument since FSU has accepted benefits since 2016?

[@jlamm2223443]

I am no lawyer, but this guy's logic seems fishy. For one thing, he implies that FSU HAD to sign the thing or get kicked out? I suspect he is exaggerating there. Why have a vote if you have to vote that way according to the bylaws. Then he says the ACC brass did this agreement against the interests of the schools. Well it is the schools who elect the ACC's brass and I remember the schools wanting protection from other conferences raiding their conference like was done with Maryland. Then he goes on about how the ACC mismanaged things so now they are less than the SEC. They were always less than the SEC. Then he goes on how the contract is not in FSU's interests. Well true, but that is why one signs contracts of all kinds, so that one will honor it even after you don't like it anymore. That's the whole idea of a binding contract. That's why tenants sign leases when they rent a house, so that they will think twice about moving the moment they see a deal they like better.

[@ehenningsen]

Both parties need to Negotiate around the 2027 date instead of fighting in court. The GOR gets incredibly weak starting that year as ESPN can walk out any time starting that year. It is in the contract.

[@gnorley]

So basically the ACC aligned to hold FSU hostage. How can they prove FSU isn't worth the money, while at the same time trying to hold on to FSU money? They can't have it both ways. It's extortion.

[@Greydawg]

6:37 How did we not have a choice in 2013? And with a $230 million dollar exit fee? I had never heard this before, & I thought instead it was the ACC that agreed to our demands as we were already heading to the BIG12 in 2012 but the ACC deal we helped set up was too good to miss even if it ultimately didn't compare with other leagues' deals a decade later?

[@dougrohan6746]

As we discussed, it was a “Hobson’s choice”…we didn’t have $234M in 2016 to get out of the deal. We really didn’t have a choice.

[@Greydawg]

@@dougrohan6746 you said 2013 though (I had put in a timestamp to be clear on exactly what I was asking about), which coincides with the time frame we made the first deal for the new network and longevity stuff rather than joining the BIG12. Was that a mistake is all? Just trying to understand. It was basically a three year deal then? I'm so confused and conflicted. We took a shot with the ACC but it *sounds* like we signed a deal that was so explicitly atrocious we could have gotten out any time we wanted & consequently it will be an extremely quick decision in our favor without even having to pay the legal bill. Is it really that severe, & how did both FSU and Clemson allow this to happen to us then in 2016? I'm struggling. I always just wanted the ACC to succeed.

[@dougrohan6746]

@@Greydawgthat is a a good point. To clarify a little, you are right: 2013 is when the initial GOR was signed and ACC was on a similar footing as the other conferences in terms of revenue. 2016 was the extension signed at a time when the SEC network had already been launched and there was a promise to launch the ACC network. So ESPN wanted the longer commitment (to 2027) before investing in launching the ACC network. Then, ESPN delayed the launch three times, finally launching in 2019 (missing out on three years of potential revenue). Additionally, there is a question of whether the presidents approved the 2016 extension (FSU says they did not sign and the ACC filing shows a signed copy in their papers). Finally, and the biggest issue with the 2016 agreement, is that it gave ESPN the unilateral right to extent the GOR from 2027 to 2036 without any additional consideration. The consideration for the 2013 agreement was the TV revenue plus a 4.5% annual increase. The 2016 agreement made no material changes to the revenue structure so therefore included no additional consideration. A contract without consideration is invalid.

[@Greydawg]

@@dougrohan6746 this sounds like an easy case then, but now it also sounds criminal, including the ACC forging the FSU president's signature, & for a deal worth potential billions & we only just found this out? I'm trying to be calm but it seems like this is starting to sound so clear & deceptive it could all be over by next weekend, but certainly enough time to be in a new conference by August? My head is spinning with all this sudden info but finding new homes ASAP feels like an inescapable concern now.

[@dougrohan6746]

We have a full 2024 and 2025 schedule right now. I think a reasonable goal would be 2026.

[@HBK358]

My guy is very naive if he thinks FSU doesn't have some assurances on a landing spot. A very limited number of valuable assets left out there for the B1G and SEC. FSU is the biggest of those with the exception of maybe Notre Dame.

[@franksmall7481]

The SEC will stay at 16 teams, fo now.

[@mikeholley4488]

Fsu has no choice unless they never want to win a national championship again.#nochoice

[@ronaldkingsley8027]

Florida state needs to look at how many years they have left on contract and how much its going to cost to get out. But in that time dont sign anymore contracts or additional changes to the currant contract. Wait til then end and get out. Such like professional players contracts are when they become unrestricted free agents.

[@SurferRC]

The fact that you cant even view the grant of rights tells you all you need to know!

[@Mark-rw3kw]

The fact that ESPN contracts with the SEC and ACC are different (even materially different) is based on the quality of the football in the SEC and the amount that advertisers are willing to pay for SEC football games compared to ACC games. The claim that there was a fiduciary breach of contract by the ACC is complete BS. This lawyer is a FSU undergrad and FSU Law school graduate, so what do you think he is going to say. They should have gotten an independent lawyer to comment on this.

[@flch95]

Never a dull moment in Nole Nation lol. There’s always something happening for better or worse lol.

[@grobble8954]

FSU argument on look at what the SEC got from ESPN doesn't fly. SEC is a far superior fball conference for decades, it's not even close. Conference like B10, SEC, P12 often have multiple teams vying for CFP or the BCS(back in the day). The ACC has been essentially a 1 team conference most of the last 20 years, in contrast the B10 and SEC have both 2 teams in the CFP multiple times. Also, looking to 2025 season, SEC adding OU and Tx, B10 adding Oregon & Washington brings both conference legit National Championship contenders and teams that have been in the CFP regularly. FSU has benefited greatly from being in a small pond.

[@Greydawg]

12:51 That's kinda scary. On one hand, this suit sounds important, even inevitable. Then this part makes it sound like if Boo Corrigan alone had "just tried a little harder" in the closed-door meetings & gotten another appearance on Gameday or written a few more sentences (or if we had a 12-team playoff this year like two of the other P5 leagues wanted for us) we wouldn't be filing this suit? "It's one of several examples" but what are the other examples? It seems much more like it was always dependent on this CFP choice is all (& I thought the league reps, like the SEC, can't just argue for their own league & that's why we have a committee formed from all leagues). It all sounds so weird to me & I keep trying to find as much info as I can to understand it but it's still such a mess; you're either with us or against us, but the facts in a bubble are *really* hard to figure out, sincerely. ❤

[@charlesdoyle]

Nice job tj

[@LawJolla]

Attorney here. FSU has a terrible argument. Hobson’s choice? Go to the Big 12. Go to Conference USA. Go independent. Ridiculous.

[@DavidPowersTraining-jy6cg]

Florida State has no case. They willingly signed the agreement.

[@jond181]

$240 mil?! To get outta this POS conference ? No sir. Take it to trial. Not a penny more than $100 mil, which is already asinine

[@LLDoubleD93]

Correct I'd say 50 m tops

[@kevinkent6351]

FSU would have to have an utterly rock solid case to dissolve a contract. The entire economic system is premised on the enforcement of contracts. No judge is going to dissolve a contract without a bulletproof case. This is not a bulletproof case-this is grasping at straws.

[@Mark-rw3kw]

Big 10 is not going to take a school that is not a member of the American Association of Universities (AAU). FSU was recently rebuked by the AAU when 5 other universities were added in 2023, but not FSU. I have no idea whether SEC wants expansion, but if they do, then FSU could end up there. Same for Big 12.

[@bryanprice6913]

240 million owed by FSU no way... Grant of rights goes away and damages paid by ACC for breach of contract

[@jmath1978]

Irts going to be every bit of 500million!

[@SouthernSooner-wn3el]

It’s going to be 0

[@Inspire886]

FSU always wins! Go Noles!

[@Bacnow]

Hmmm…. I guess we’ll see them dominate Georgia then….

[@langstondah5219]

​@@Bacnow No one gives a crap about the OB. Notice all the opt outs dimbulb?????!!! Youre the reason we dont want to join the SEC, we dont like people without intelligence any more. FBA/B1

[@josephgonsalves8579]

Alabama played a playoff game already (with Georgia) Michigan played a playoff game already (with Ohio St) Washington played a playoff game already (against Oregon) ,,,, all 6 of these were top 8 teams. College football could have stopped all this by overriding conference championships, they could have had FSU play Texas then the top 8 teams would have won their way in.

[@atkkeqnfr]

I hope FSU wins. Screw the ACC.

[@jmath1978]

If that happens FSU will never br great as they was in the ACC but go ahead and find out!

[@fullarmorofgod9638]

I hope acc wins

[@christschool]

The ACC should go back to their roots as a basketball centric conference like the Big East did. Let the football centric schools go. I was against FSU joining the ACC in the first place. Academically, they're not culturally compatible. I'm a Tarheel. I would love to see the conference pair back down to it's original 8 teams + Syracuse, Pitt and Louisville. Let the rest go.

[@antoniohill2349]

Really good breakdown guys

[@mallardcutter7209]

FSU signed the contract, I don’t care if the people that signed it are still there or not. I can tell you this , FSU may think they can play in the SEC but when reality hits they will be suing again to get out. If they leave the ACC then I hope they sign a short contract.

[@DB-cx6cb]

Who wins? The ACC and FSU better get back in line. They signed a very bad Contract. The Court will always side with a Contract. FSU should remember the old say……”Buyer Beware” the same principle applies here allowing the ACC to do their bidding with the ESPN and then later signed off on the unbelievable extension contract binding them to 2035!

[@richardbrookins5406]

Charge $1 for each home game ticket and let the mouse have it...screw em'

[@rickstclair2217]

simply seems there is a signed contract which spells out what each party is responsible for. meaning you choose to break the contract, you pay the other party for that action. if you are not willing to pay for your action, do not take that action. it should not be about a location or favorable judge, should be about the law. good luck

[@johnbentonjr4680]

Yall all just don’t get it, these conferences are going to destroy the future of the sport. To many teams in one damn conference.

[@noelramirez1551]

I love how they're acting like they have to leave the conference....they should just admit it's all about money because why would you leave the ACC with an easier path to a 12 team playoff to go 8-4 in the big 10 or SEC ....

[@johnbentonjr4680]

@@noelramirez1551 facts

[@waynevliet4102]

Let’s understand one thing. This is ESPN Grant of Rights not ACC. They locked the ACC into this contract. Then went back a doubled the SEC contract. So the ACC network was the reason for this move. Again the ESPN contract with the SEC network already existed. Now ESPN should be the one sued.

[@jmath1978]

FSU is locked in they made the deal and they are going to have to live with it or Pay the ACC period! People are always trying to break deals I dont feel sorrry for FSU!

[@douglastuten5340]

Who’s asking you to feel sorry for them. This is not about feelings. Now go get some therapy

[@damosuzuki4125]

For some reason I think the reason the ACC filed first because they were planning on not working the next day.