The First Men of Tamriel | The Elder Scrolls Podcast #89

WELCOME to the Elder Scrolls Podcast with FudgeMuppet. Today we discuss the Nedic peoples of Tamriel.
Learn More About the Early Nedes: • This Skyrim Theory Wil...
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[@badluck5647]

Every Elder Scrolls fan *Nedes* to hear this podcast.

[@PaRaNiki_]

Ftfy

[@st.peterunner8758]

Thanks man, I really Neded that

[@badluck5647]

@@st.peterunner8758 Just wait. Tal-mor puns to come.

[@Saber23]

This one physically hurt I love it 😂

[@etinarcadiaego7424]

*buh dum tish*

[@henritetrault5912]

You guys have helped keep my love for TES alive. Played Skyrim and Oblivion when I was 10 and now fast forward I’m a university student and barely have time to play but watching your videos and listening to the podcasts keep the passion going

[@CrimsonTear1996]

Same except I’m a father now. It’s so crazy man. Shoutout to us being retired with a 401k by TES 6 lmao

[@parkbarner42]

Truer words have never been spoken

[@badluck5647]

The Nedes aren't all gone. There are a few that "live" on as ancient vampires. The obvious examples are Lamae Bal and Lady Belain.

[@t8kabr8km85]

yes but they are very limited in supply... i doubt their concept organs are... functional

[@badluck5647]

@@t8kabr8km85 I'm not saying the Nedes will make a comeback, but there are still some Nedes who can retain the race's culture into the modern era like Yagrum does with the Dwemer and Gelebor with the Snow Elves. "Even Gods dislike the absolute, for it stinks of something larger than themselves." ― Sotha Sil

[@fumarc4501]

The Nedes live on in their descendants and the cultures they influenced. Even the high and lofty Mer were influenced, whether they’re willing to admit it or not.

[@thalmoragent9344]

@@fumarc4501 Yeah, but Elven language and Culture had influenced Tamriel at its roots even more than the Human one, to be fair.

[@PyrusFlameborn]

Lamæ Bal is still alive??!!

[@ErnestoCifer]

Stormcloaks: Foreigners should leave Skyrim Nedic descended Reachmen: Cool, when you leavin'?

[@badluck5647]

*The Reach is for the Reachmen*

[@princessxenomorph8952]

When they stop worshipping daedra and hagravens, they can join the discussion.

[@StoicDivinity]

@@princessxenomorph8952 they don't worship hagravens 😂

[@badluck5647]

@@princessxenomorph8952 Thalmor: When they stop worshipping Talos, they can join the discussion. Stormcloaks are hypocrites

[@Saber23]

@@badluck5647 how are the Stormcloaks hypocrites in any way shape or form? The Thalmor are OUTSIDERS telling them what to do and they aren’t worshipping evil forces

[@mattyD92992]

I just love how nebulous and uncertain TES lore is. I feel like if you’re going to make a fantasy world, being super vague with the origins is much more interesting than having a definite creation myth that’s able to be easily proven. Better to go super weird and outlandish with everything.

[@Cyrathil]

It's kind of the reason I dislike in a lot of recent settings there's a lack of the unreliable narrator. It gives the same sort of feel and lacking it just seems to make everything be a memorization game.

[@thorstenheinke1705]

Good old times, where game devs took lots of drugs.

[@AdaptiveApeHybrid]

I agree. Reflective of our own world as far as I can see 🙊

[@realSerran]

It's not just that it's vague, even the parts that are very specific are often contradictory. This gives it a very "real world" feel as many early religions share many similar figures or even stories (like the flood, etc.) but they contradict and different cultures puts different importance of different "gods" or even aspects of certain specific gods. I.e. Some stories focus on Hercules/Heracles's legendary and mythical strength, but almost as often a story is used to highlight his cleverness and quick-thinking that so many ancient heroes are revered for. It's a super interesting bit of distinction because parts of it could be true but so could all of it or none of it. Quite interesting for a lore in such a beloved video game franchise.

[@King_Kunta]

These videos are really calming and fun to listen to. No cap I’m headed to my wedding right now, this is keeping my heart from jumping out of my chest

[@GroggyFive59180]

I know this is late but congratulations! Wish you the best!

[@King_Kunta]

@@GroggyFive59180 thanks man. It’s been really good so far lol

[@aleksm.1863]

If your comment said 2 months ago, I'd have done a double take and brought it up the next time 'we' saw each other.

[@voryntheriolu2525]

I DEFINITELY would love a documentary about the animals of tamriel

[@ComicAcolyte]

*David Attenborough voice intensifies* AND HERE WE SEE THE MUDCRAB IT ATTACKS ANY TIME IT SEES MAN OR MER BUT IT IS EASY TO YEET ESPECIALLY WHEN THE DRAGON BORN USES FUS RO DAH.

[@Randy_Flamethrower]

ok furry

[@slixkkdemon17]

Yes, the Sahara desert is on a 5-10,000 year cycle of turning into a lush evergreen rainforest, back to the desert, it’s so wild and fascinating to research, and i love that it’s real bc it helps me head canon Cyrodill 😂😂

[@fumarc4501]

Good lad

[@chrisvandergriff504]

Always love to see the regularly posted Elder Scrolls content. Keeping the dream alive, boys.

[@michaelrobb9542]

This is one of the best parts about Sundays.

[@forthemysterians7630]

It's only on Sundays?

[@michaelrobb9542]

@@forthemysterians7630 the podcasts release on Sunday's yes. Other videos release whenever.

[@EliotChildress]

I know it’s not your plan but thank you for always releasing these at a time right before people in japan are getting ready for bed. It’s become my relaxing time.

[@badluck5647]

Is Australia in the same time zone?

[@EliotChildress]

Pretty close if not the same. Good evening time zone buddy 🙂

[@StoicDivinity]

in the States, these get released in the AM - so I always get to enjoy these with my morning coffee

[@fumarc4501]

That’s neat

[@noahtylerpritchett2682]

In my opinion I think the Ethnic Falkreathian Nords have the least Nordic blood. I noticed that the Nords in Falkreath are shorter and darker complexion. I think the hold has more Nedic influence.

[@Im-Not-a-Dog]

I dont view Topal's journal as the definitive end-all when it comes to whats on Tamriel, simply because we only have thee excerpts left of it, so most of the info about what he saw was lost. More importantly, Topal made it back to Summerset, which means that his journal made it to the High Elf's government intact, a government that supposedly is the best record keepers on the planet. Why then are we missing peices of his journal? Because it was redacted. Edited. Censored. Surpressed. The Altmer government refused to acknowledge any parts of his journal that refute their fictional origin story and refused to show the evidence to the other races because it would make eveyone question every claim the Altmer make. All parts of Topal's journal that didnt just conform to their ideology were destroyed, and all that was released were the parts that show no elves or humans on Tamriel before the Altmer. This is why there are no mentions of any of the provinces that we know had pre-Altmer Elves, like the Falmer in mainland Skyrim, the Bosmer in Valenwood, and the Dwemer in Resdain(Morrowind). All they left were the bits about the Beast races and Goblins(which they called orcs at the time, as the elven descendant Orcs weren't created yet) because it doesn't question their mythological origin.

[@thalmoragent9344]

The Altmer should've said "hey, these Mer are descendants of the Aldmer like us, so our claims still stand", don't know why they'd destroy any records of the Falmer, and it sucks if they did

[@Im-Not-a-Dog]

@@thalmoragent9344 Because, if Tamriel is Aldmeris as their view claims, the Falmer, Bosmer, and Dwemer remaining native to Tamriel while they, the Altmer, were forced off to Summerset would stand as evidence that any or all of the three species of Elf that stayed on Tamriel are closer to the original Aldmer by virtue of them never leaving Almeris and thus not having to adapt and change as much as the Altmer would have. Regardless of if the Altmer are telling the truth or lying about their origins or not, admitting that a) there were Elves on Tamriel before them and b) they have no idea where they came from would create validation for people to refute their claim of being the closest to the Aldmer and thereby the closest to the Gods, thus giving them the sole divine right to rule Tamriel.

[@thalmoragent9344]

@@Im-Not-a-Dog Perhaps, yes that's fair. My argument for the Altmer then would be that the Aldmer may have all just split up after the Ehlnofey War (which they technically did, and not even fully by choice) and since we know the Direnni, Chimer/Dunmer and Ayleids definitely cake from Summerset Isle Origins, the Altmer could still say they've fully upheld the Aldmeri ways and haven't deviated. BUT if they say they washed up on Alinor, then the part that bites them in the ass is the part of them washing up on Summerset, which is where your statement comes in as a very valid point. Either way, I wouldn't have tossed Bosmer, Dwemer and Falmer under the bus, instead they could've said they too came from Summerset but after Topal, which, while that may not really be true, still would support the claim of Elven right to Tamriel, given that's the center of their lost homeland they reclaimed from the invading races of Man. Still, you make a great point, very valid and likely why they don't speak of them much..., although, the Falmer in Skyrim may not have been found either way since Topal would just assume its all just an Icy place and move on instead of Camping in Blizzards of a rather inhospitable place overall to most.

[@MrSpartan993]

Honestly? FUCK the High Elves.

[@fumarc4501]

I like the take that while the Nedes were not powerful militarily, they were still advanced in their understanding of the natural world. To such an extent that they influenced all those who came after them. Not with monuments and cursed relics, but from things like Astrology, Philosophy, Metallurgy, and Arts.

[@xxeman445xx]

"to be into TES lore, you just have to mainline copium... So the nedes" had me dead

[@whimsicalstray]

The Mississippian settlement that Scott referenced briefly was probably Cahokia. It was huge, but I don't think it was continuously fully occupied. I think I've read somewhere that it was most likely occupied only for religious festivities and sacrifice, a sort of pilgrimage. Also, they've found evidence that they were trading goods from the Great Lakes to Pennsylvania to the Gulf of Mexico. There's also Chaco and Mesa Verde, from the older Puebloan Basketmaker culture, also known as the Anasazi by the Navajo.

[@thalmoragent9344]

20:15 Tbf, the Altmer and Falmer also love the "Light" and Starlight as well as Magnus and all that, so it's not a stretch that the Ayleids just said "hey, the Nedes use these Welkynd stuff so... why not just take it, pioneer it better, and bam?"

[@excommunicatedpriest8984]

Ngl I didnt expect to find this while I was in the shower but what a wonderful thing to scrub the suds of soap off of myself toooo, I guess you could say I was in "Nede" of a shower

[@oldgamerchick]

Love the opening music for this podcast. Makes me want to go exploring.

[@YourWaywardDestiny]

Here's a joke for you: What would you say was the Direnni's biggest down fall? I'd say their wants were put before their Nedes.

[@haphazardlark1502]

*sunglasses* YEAAAAAAHHHH

[@RealOngoGablogian]

We are laughing now. But we are all gonna crap ourselves when David Attenborough narrates the next video

[@Jordan-zk2wd]

Awesome that Scott's checking out The Dawn of Everything, hope you enjoy! Really gave me a new perspective on the past and definitely affecting my theorycracting with groups like Nedes, Argonians, and Bosmer. The idea of advancing anthropological research influencing the canon possibilities or interpretations of canon is the sort of thing I think that is fitting with Elder Scrolls canon. A lot of the appeal of the series to me is that is sort of a reverse anthropology, where Bethesda, Zenimax, and fans often create cultural ideas first, then create social simulations and material culture (via the game worlds) for the cultural ideas. What makes TES especially interesting as a game series is how far it goes into really trying to simulate culture as a primary focus. A big aspect of roleplaying in TES games is not personal role-playing, in the sense of role-playing an individual story. Moreso, it feels like you want to locate yourself in the world culturally. You wanna be a stormcloak or an imperial, you wanna be with this or that house, your race will impact you, etc etc. It's not that there is no room for individual role-playing or that it is as simple as taking X variables into account you get Y sort of person, personal history and more intimate moments will definitely be part of the experience. I just mean that a lot of the content fleshes out the cultures and the game experience generally pushes you towards exploring that. Basically, at the end of the day it's a video game that puts in game bonuses in books because it genuinely is trying to sell you on the idea of reading a bunch of books on myths and histories and shit as just another thing you wanna do in the game. For a lot of people, they succeed at that cause the entire cultural landscape of Tamriel over time becomes so realized, with the right mix of ambiguities and details to feel quite alive.

[@lukaphoenix1568]

I understand that this wouldn't happen, but I find it entertaining to toy with the thought that if you play TESVI as a high elf (and the tower theory turned out to be canon) you could have the option to join the Thalmor and help them deactivate the last tower and ascend with them

[@infra_r3d133]

Even better would be if you did that and it didn’t work. No high elf ascension and many shattered dreams bringing the HE’s down low.

[@____________838]

I imagine that any “joining the thalmor” quest would involve the player character being a stooge for those that wish to break Mundus. Tbh, I expect the Aldmeri Dominion itself to be a major “positive force” early on in the game, likely being who frees the player character from imprisonment in the opening act.

[@infra_r3d133]

@@____________838 - That’s fine and all, just like the empire/Alduin helps to set up the beginning of the story/playthrough in SKYRIM. However, I would be really upset if I was forced to side with the HE’s for any amount of time in TES6. Having the option? Yes, but I hate the HE’s. And not because I’m a Nord lover or a stormcloak. I just hate their haughty, stuck-up, better-than-you beliefs and attitude.

[@____________838]

@@infra_r3d133 I imagine if there’s any /smart/ writers for VI, one of the first Aldmeri troops we have any contact with will be an enjoyable character, perhaps a little like Faendal in temperament. He wouldn’t really want to be stationed where he is, but it’s his duty to the people to fight off the raiders/slavers that are causing trouble in the area.

[@lazilycatharticone4191]

If one were able to join the Thalmor, I could see the player being given the choice between two sides of the faction. The side that wants to break Mundus and ascend to Atherius, and the side who wants to rule it with more Queen Ayranian beliefs. Though to be honest, I think that would fair better in a game set in Summerset than wherever TESVI is set. Still, it all depends on how much nuance Emil is willing to give the faction. We know they've been set as the cartoonishly evil Elven faction in Skyrim. Is he willing to make them feel more real as a faction? That is the question.

[@luciendolo6604]

I've always wondered if Topal's bird people were actually Nedes. Birds specifically eagles and raptors play a large role in Nedic and Reachmen culture. You see it in figures like Red Eagle, the Sky Forge, and how the Forsworn decorate their hair with feathers. These bird people are never mentioned anywhere else, no evidence of them exists outside one questionable skull, and it seems strange the Ayleids would be so obsessed with them if according to the official history, had never even seen one. I think the bird folk were Nedes either misinterpreted or exaggerated to be more strange than they actually were. The Ayleids adopting bird motifs and feathers into their fashion and art makes more sense if this was just another thing they took from the Nedes like star and Deadra worship.

[@thalmoragent9344]

Well, the early Aldmeri and the isolated Mer on Summerset also have birds and wings and beaks and all that, and that was largely without Ayleid or Nedic influence. Although, other than that, I like your theory on the Nedes being sorta birdlike there in Jungle Cyrodil, although I feel Topal would've made that distinction, that he saw Humans dressed on the "fashion of birds" or something like that.

[@Super50ldier]

@@thalmoragent9344 Nedes are not birdmen

[@MrDelferi123]

It's not just the Nedes that have been scrubbed out of the Altmer-centric view of history. Pretty good case can be made that the Snow Elves, Dwemer and maybe Bosmer, were also in Tamriel before the Altmer colonization.

[@big_tymerro]

Finally, I’ve heard you mention the Nedes on the podcast before but I’ve never dove deep into their lore. So glad for this episode!

[@veraxiana9993]

At 18:28 the place Scott is likely talking about is Poverty Point in Louisiana,here's a great video on it for those interested in learning more! It's very interesting indeed kzbin.info/www/bejne/a5zaiaCgeseUrJo

[@EJDubbz]

Thanks for the link. I've been meaning to learn more about this place.

[@Im-Not-a-Dog]

I still hold to the theory that the Skyforge and the Selkie Statue of Anvil are very early Nedic depictions of their interpretations of Kyne and Dibella. In mythology, Kyne has been shown as granting weapons to Human mortals, be it in the form of the Thu'um to the Nords or Pelinal and Morihause to the Cyrodilics or even in the form of creating the Nords themselves as a weapon against the elves, so it wouldn't surprise me that she could have given a forge or the knowlege to make a forge to these early Humans before they were enslaved as a means of helping them keep the elves out. It didnt work, but she tried. As for Dibella, she's all about beauty, and the only story in lore about Selkie(and the only mention of seals as an animal in the Elder Scrolls series) is one where a human has fallen in love with it.(Its called _The Selkie of West Skerry_ ) So it makes sense they'd dipict her as a Selkie given that they already had a beauty based mythological beast known to their culure. Side Note: The Nedes may have caused seals to go extinct, because they apparently were a thing in the past, but are now devoid from Tamriel.

[@Im-Not-a-Dog]

@@shadowbanned1999 Yeah, I left a similar comment on his recent CCC video for the Goldcoast. But lets not act as though he brought up this during that video, he just mentioned the Statue as predating the city and suggests its a dipiction of Azura. So, your not exactly right, but hey, cool comment bruh. Lol Maybe next time try to add something meaningful? 👍

[@Im-Not-a-Dog]

@@shadowbanned1999 Wow! You mean, someone watched a lore video, learned some lore, and expounded upon it?!?!? OMG!! THATS COMPLETELY UNHEARD OF!!!!! "A lot of words to say something you could say in a couple sentences", yeah, thats called an explanation, sweetie. Its how people use evidence to support something they're talking about. Most people require that type of stuff because they(unlike you) dont accept "Trust Me Bro" as a source. 👍

[@Im-Not-a-Dog]

@@shadowbanned1999 You know they've done litterally 6 or 7 different podcasts covering theories that other people have come up? The Iceburg ones, the Hot Takes ones, and the actual Fan Theories ones. Hell, they even brought Camel in for the Iceberg podcasts. You gunna start talking shit to FudgeMuppet too? Im just curious as to how deep your your hatred for lore and theory discussion runs. Since you're someone who watches a lore channel, it just seems odd to me.

[@gealex99]

I know I come here for Elderscrolls but ngl, the way you all talk about topics, research lore, and connect all details I 10000% would listen to you talk about real world history. Even if its just scholarly debate from non scholars

[@le_marc]

Just wanted to add. In our real world there are many big, sedentary communities that don't do agriculture. This is particularly evident in Northwest Coast Native American communities. Since the sea and the land are very abundant, they dont need agriculture to keep everone fed. Their subsistence comes from fishing, hunting and gathering. And it is enough to support towns and fortified settlements.

[@neillindgren8992]

Here’s a hot take. Maybe the Nords really did originally live around the throat of the world, and were a Nedic tribe that eventually migrated across the Sea of Ghosts to settle Atmoria (for whatever reason) and so perhaps when the Atmorians settled in Skyrim, it was an actual return - possibly the Sky Forge had even been built by the Nede ancestors of the Nords before they left, assuming this is true.

[@blcklstd6156]

Could be

[@lb5560]

Althoughh.. Why would they migrate to Atmora? What makes armora so important in order to make a whole race migrate? Perhaps, why would they flee if not having met the of the Falmer? They wouldn’t have interacted yet.

[@neillindgren8992]

@@lb5560 The history of the Dawn Era is rather sparse. There is the whole account of the wandering Ehlnofey versus old Ehlnofey war, where the wanderers were ancient men and the old Ehlnofey were ancient mer, who supposedly inhabited Tamriel back than, according to that account, and maybe the ancestors of the Atmorians were driven to Atmoria by the ancient mer during one of those ancient wars, or maybe it was as simple as one group of proto-Nedes driving out another group of proto-Nedes that became the Atmorians to Atmoria, or maybe the Atmorians ancestors just decided that Atmoria sounded like a nicer place to live back then. All we know is that the Falmer did not build the Skyforge, and didn’t know who did, and both Nedes and Atmorians were know to be quite adept metal workers, so maybe they built it?

[@arcticdragon3565]

I am ready for National FudgeMuppet's Planet Nirn Docuseries.

[@Theology.101]

So, let's look at the Bretons. We got two subgroups, the Mainline Bretons and Reachmen. To simplify, I'll just call the Mainline Bretons Bretons and Reachmen... Reachmen. Now, despite being ethnically similar, the two have fundamentally different religious beliefs. This can be traced to their view of Lorkhan. Sheor (Bad Man): In Bretony, the Bad Man is the source of all strife. He seems to have started as the god of crop failure, but most modern theologians agree that he is a demonized version of the Nordic Shor, born during the dark years after the fall of Saarthal. -Varieties of Faith The Bretons do not like Lorkhan, at all. Which makes sense. The Direnni, like most Mer, treat Lorkhan as evil, a trickster, liar, and all-around bad man. Which makes sense that their Nedic Slaves, which they oppressed and forced their religion on, followed that belief when they were freed from their Servitude. Like many human cultures, people of the Reach venerate Lorkhan as well. They know him as Lorkh, the Spirit of Man, the Mortal Spirit, or the Sower of Flesh... While some resent Lorkh's cruelty, most praise his wisdom. According to the Reachfolk, those who suffer most know best. Hardship is a means to wisdom and glory, and Lorkh provided hardship in ample supply. -Great Spirits of the Reach, Volume 5 The Reachmen DO worship Lorkhan. Which, doesn't make much sense, does it? Every other former Meric Slave race (The Colovians, Nibbenese and Bretons) have been adopted the Anuic pantheon. So, with the current theorized origins of Reachmen (Keptu Nedic slaves), it doesn't make sense that they'd break away. Now, I'm not claiming that the Keptu have no cultural connection to the Reachmen, they clearly do. However, the Keptu-Horn Skull Sallet claims it was cultural exchange, not direct ancestry as many claim. So, how do we get the Reachmen if not the Keptu? Here is where we get bonkers. The Direnni ruled around Isle Balfiera, and their power was generally localized around that region. The Reachmen, however, live incredibly far inland and away from Balfiera. It doesn't make much sense for the Direnni to conquer that far East. So, here is my Proposal: The Reachmen are the result of Nords and Aeylids. HANG ON! Hear me out! I know it is wacky, but I have some good ideas. And some evidence. Sort of. So, remember how I mentioned how the Reachmen are Padomaic? So are the Nords, they're actually the MOST Padomaic race on Nirn, besides maybe the High Velothi Chimer. We also know that, after conquering what is now modern-day Windhelm, Dawnstar and Winterhold, they split up, each Warlord going their separate ways. Shortly after, the Aeylids fled from Cyrodil when Alessia leads her slave revolt. Some went to Hammerfell, others to Valenwood, and some went to High Rock. And the most direct route from Cyrodil to High Rock is... through Skyrim, and the Reach. While some may have made it to High Rock and the safety of the Direnni, not all of them. Some may have been captured and interbred with their captors, the Nords. A lot of the early Atmoran religion has been suppressed, lied about and covered up. What we do know is that they worshipped Animal Totems. Wouldn't it make sense if they had a certain reverence to the Man-Wolf, Hircine? While it may be that some of the early Nords were more fervent Hircine worshippers compared to others, and with the Daedric influence of the Aeylids, it could be that Daedric religion became more important. Now, I know this is a crackpot, but I have some fun ideas. For example, while Lorkh is still worshipped (as much as the Reachmen can worship), he is certainly viewed more maliciously than the Nords do. Sort of like if, for example, the Aeylid's hatred of Lorkhan started to meld with the Nordic worship of Shor. As a compromise between both the semi-Daedric worshipping Aeylids and the possibly Hircinic Nords, Lorkhan was supplanted by Hircine as the new God of Flesh. A healthy compromise. These new Reachmen follow both the Padomaic nordic faith, like Dibella (An Atmora goddess), Lorkh (THE Atmoran God) and also the gods of Aeylids, like Molag Bal (Worshipped by the Aeylids in northern Cyrodil) and Peryite (Who has adopted many of the traits found in Auri-El), and Nocturnal (Who the Khajiit view as Lorkhan's daughter). So it is entirely possible that their two religions have mixed. Similarly, the Reachmen have taken an Altmer holiday (New Life Festival is to worship Magnus) and changed it to their own Now, I'm going to present some counter arguments. These are valid (and some are probably more accurate than what I've written thus far). The Hircine Worship comes from the Keptu during their cultural exchange That's a fair point, but this does not exclude the other theories. The more Anuic traits could've come from the Snow Elves Also valid. But the Snow Elves, as far as we know, hold Magnus and Auriel as their chief gods, and have no love for the Daedra, especially Molag Bal. The Nords would've probably mentioned their Reachmen cousins, and they wouldn't be considered Bretons The separation between the Reachmen and Nords is probably revisionist history, just as how they've separated a lot of their early culture from themselves (Oh we all hate Dragons! Just ignore the fact we worshipped them). As for Breton, the linguistic origin comes from the Ehlnofex word "Beratu," which means 'half.' The Reachmen are just as much 'half' elves as the Aldmer-Nedes are, even if they are Nords and Aeylids. All the written reports of Reachmen note that they are Nedic For one, the Reachmen have never written their own histories and their history is mainly recorded by outsiders. Specifically, they would've been written about in the third empire. During this time period, Talos did some revisionist history, which said that the Nedes are actually of Atmoran origin. Nord is reserved for those who came with Ysgramor. If the Nords were trying to separate themselves from the Reachmen, Talos could easily call them Nedes, and still make it be an accurate description.

[@fumarc4501]

Damn that was a read, but I like your arguments. Kind of reminds me of the Nede-Chimer War. Clearly they interacted and fought for a long time, and in that time cultural clash leads to “bleeding over.” While Bretons are the best example, that’s no guarantee that there weren’t other such results. But that does beg the opposite, are Snow Elf and Nord hybrids also a thing and how much of an impact did that have on both cultures? In the case of the Chimer-Nedes, they west from the area that would become Morrowind with the fleeing Nedes, as they were not accepted in Chimer society beyond potential slaves. I hope some of they weren’t wiped out when the Red Guard attacked Hammerfell. Most Nedes went there during all of this expansionism.

[@Theology.101]

@@fumarc4501 sadly the Craglorn Nedes are very similar to the Visigoths of North Africa, a migratory faction doomed to destruction

[@grosstoastie1216]

Awesome theory.

[@xeonespydonum4995]

I'm convinced.

[@MidoriOfTheShuinsen]

What do you mean "theory"? This is canon.

[@paulmontesanti813]

I see that someone else has been reading the Dawn of Everything. Great book!!

[@BaalFridge]

Sunday morning tribunal devotions to all!

[@micangeloakampyreal4949]

The Mississippi one is called Cahokia, my moundbuilding ancestors did that 💯

[@WintrBorn]

That Nat Geo/Attenborough style documentary of TES is a really fun idea. A Zeldatuber I watch did one on one of the monsters, and it’s a oft-repeated video for me. He did a credible impression of Sir David, as well. Do it!

[@Mary_Beth_Reimer]

Scott, your kids are going to be so smart if you're teaching them about everything you read!

[@jamesfrank2108]

There should definitely be videos of prehistoric High Rock, Hammerfell, Cyrodiil and Black Marsh.

[@ByrnEtch]

Always appreciate these insights!

[@funny5678910]

I've always been a fan of the Talos turning Cyrodil into Plains from a jungles as a in universe myth about man made climate change. In the real world there's many examples of myths that seem to be ancient explanations for massive climatic or geological changes being attributed to a single person, Talos being the figure that most represents humans I can easily see humans clearing cyrodil slowly making it less jungle, then when it becomes a historical myth it gets put down to talos. I'm sure there's in game contradictions to this, but it ties things up neatly for me personally

[@thalmoragent9344]

Well, I'm sure Cyrodil would still have some Jungle patches here and there, no? And at the time of Morrowind, Cyrodil was still said to be a Jungle if I'm remembering correctly, so the idea that Talos retroactively creates the Jungle which sorta warps that tiny bit of the Timeline and everyone's heads for a little bit, while a bit odd, CAN still work out in some ways.

[@Psnrspxb]

Scott is a dwarf drew is a high elf and Michael is a nede

[@NightmareShadows13]

Please, a TES Nat Geo video about the various animals in the different provinces would honestly be amazing.

[@brodiequigley3099]

Anderson also claimed to have startling knowledge about Anastasia's uncle, Grand Duke Ernst of Hesse.

[@Kingofclubs2077]

The firsr time I heard of the "Nedes" was in a D&D5e adaptation of elder scrolls. It explained that the first vampire was a nedic woman. I was like: "a what? What is a nedic person"

[@fumarc4501]

That must have been a fun experience.

[@lukewhite8930]

Nedes revering Hircine as an ultimate being or figure (God) makes more sense in regards to a particular group revering a certain god than any other, I think.

[@pedigreeann]

Hunter/gatherers generally would have had gods they could appeal to for each activity: A god of the hunt, whose favor would send them bountiful game and a god of the natural environment, from which the largest amount of their sustenance came (the infamous nuts and berries, as well as roots, leaves, tubers, wild grains, etc.).

[@julianoslittleteapot1041]

Do wonder if the Kothringi are akin to the men from Akavir.

[@joegriffith9150]

Drew reminds me of David Attenborough in a few ways he narrates his videos so him mentioning David is pretty funny to me.

[@craig7021]

I didn't just want this. I NEDED IT.

[@wrongsalvation8904]

The native American culture that you were thinking of near the Mississippi is Cahokia. I live 15 minutes from it. It's amazing.

[@noahtylerpritchett2682]

I live In Indiana. The Mississippian culture was quite large and expanse. The native American culture is extinct. Even before European colonialism as subsequent cultures replaced it. Assuming you and I are thinking of the same culture.

[@aberami6090]

Scott lookin like an Aussie Clark Kent

[@thelastwatcher6264]

Is Scott reading fingerprints of the gods? That's a tough read if you're not in the perfect mindset for it. Talks a lot about ancient cultures like that though

[@EJDubbz]

Another thing that interests me is that the snow elves were scared of the sky forge. Why? Some connection to Hircine? Another daedra?

[@IAmDdie1]

28:17 would watch a nature doco in tamerial

[@PelinalDidNothingWrong]

I personally head-canon Nedes being native to Tamriel

[@fumarc4501]

The Complete Imperials or “Cyrodiils” Guide when?

[@lukoscreyden]

am I mishearing, or is that some "Beyond Skyrim: Atmora" music I hear in the background? If so, I applaud your taste.

[@kamikazehound3243]

Humans and Argonian worshiping Sithis together sounds dope

[@badunius_code]

I think you wouldn't confuse Nedes with "needs" if you pronounce them as ne-de-s as in plural from singular Nede. Or if you like i so much, n[i]d-es. Just a thought

[@dergeilteufel]

The Elven attitude of superiority makes more sense with the Nedes being present first. If these "inferior" tribal beings had been moving into Elven lands, they would not have the same presence in Cyrodiil. Sure, some of them might have been enslaved like the goblins, but I think a larger immigration would have met similar resistance as the Atmorans met with the Falmer.

[@EmmettF.W.]

The Nedes of the many, outweigh the Nedes of the Nords. 🗡 🩸 🐺

[@jeremymullens7167]

Native Americans were largely farmers not hunter gatherer. There were pockets where farming is wasn’t possible. Any large structures built were by farming communities.

[@booshmcfadden7638]

The Needes of the many outweigh the Needes of the few.

[@romanmeneghinister1584]

To back up Scott, oral tradition is incredible but once lost it tends to stay lost. In real life we know of peoples doing incredible stuff but have no idea how due to oral tradition being interupted/ lost

[@CelticAugur]

Okay finally a Celtic/Gaulish Culture in Elder scrolls nice

[@AdaptiveApeHybrid]

ES lore is utterly fucking fascinating

[@XPetabreadX]

Idk about you guys? But Michael looking like a whole snack today.

[@monsieurdorgat6864]

If you try out the Skyrim - National Geographic, you'll have to pull our your best Steve Irwin/David Attenborough impression!

[@EJDubbz]

6:40. Michael is hilarious in this one.

[@Yompers]

We are the knights who say “Nede”

[@IcarusRuthven]

Speaking of the request to do a video on prehistoric Morrowind - I don't know if you've got one in the archives, but I would be absolutely entranced with a long-form video on the Velothi and pre-Tribunal Chimer. If someone could point me to a link that'd be great. Side note: Is Azura ever going to change the Dunmer back? I also start drooling at any hint of the Reman Star Empire, but I know there's basically nothing out there beyond a few scraps. Man, what a waste.

[@IcarusRuthven]

I also *just* put together that the Indoril masks could be more than just shiny for the sake of shininess - they could be representations of the faces of their Chimer origin, which would be much more like the Altmer in tone.

[@the11382]

Could the courier be an aspect of Zenithar?

[@ReikoAyanamiCh]

Me: *about to make a "wants and nedes" joke* Michael: *shoots me in the fucking head*

[@mr.chimichanga6947]

Thanks so much. I’ve been waiting for a podcast on the origins of man

[@wintersking4290]

France was almost completely forested before the Roman empire. It isn't very much anymore.

[@BrandonSmith-fi3dl]

Fucking hell, man. Can Scott keep a thought straight for more than 3 seconds? Start a thought, fumble over words, start another, fumble, repeat.

[@aberami6090]

39:20 it’s not cope it’s reconciliation 😎

[@cerealexperiments8189]

I'd totally watch Tamriel Geographic

[@baneandeddu8115]

LOVE IT

[@Fempath]

I really Neded this tonight ❤️

[@buckweetthesupernaturalsho4047]

If I remember correctly wasn't all of the lands all one land mass when the gods walked the lands and the war between the ancient elves and men split it apart into the different lands where elves and men were still at war and some lands where it was just one race

[@yourfinalhiringagency3890]

Most early farming settlements would have been 1 fire, or raid, or flood, or collapsed building away from having to go back to a more mobile lifestyle.

[@OranjMoose]

What if nedes were just the last kalpas like remnant? Like kothringi were the natives of Black Marsh and the Hist uplift the Argonians and push back the Kothringi. The splinter Nedic groups could have settled yokuda. Nords being isolated in Atmora with a slowly dropping temp creates another diversion. I really like the Native Nede theory.

[@sheogoraththedaedricprince9675]

My Nedes alway come first.

[@blcklstd6156]

You guys are da best, like ya ✌️

[@breathofdifferentair1950]

Maybe the player has achieved chim, in the sense that we make the choices for the timeliness we create due to our playthrough

[@KasirRham]

Random question, did the very oldest Bretons have sharp ears?

[@TamrielicScholar]

If anyone ever sees the shadow of the elven helmet behind Scott pls reply with the time stamp lol

[@jeddy936]

Is it not possible that a group or several nedes traveled up to atmora found the dragons and became the Nords then came back to tamrial

[@noahtylerpritchett2682]

Yes this theory officially exists in universe. It's equally possible atmora had indigenous people who mixed with Nedic immigrants.

[@ozzyb.hammer5599]

I just noticed that we didnt load chim this time 😭

[@Martyr217]

Yay my people. 😜

[@noahtylerpritchett2682]

Nedes are probably indigenous to Tamriel

[@artemisarrow179]

Yay new Elder Scrolls lore videos in 2022 :D

[@Feathertusk]

The story of the Nedes is very similer to the story of indigenous peoples being overrun by colonizers. One example of this is the Mound Culter of the North Eastern section of the US. The people there lived is city states, with the cities being built of wood and clay, and they created multiple amazing earthen mounds for buriel and religous purpose. Serpent Mound is a great example. Due to war and disease (brought by Europeans) the cities were forced to be abandoned and eventaully decayed. Later Americans on the East Coast believed a splinter of their ancestors had created the mounds since there was no way the natives could have. Thomas Jefferson being the jaded man and sceptic disagreed with this popular belief of his peers, rudely dug into a mound and produced artifacts that were of the same time of the local tribes that still existed. The similarity between Nedes (and the other residents of Tamriel) is that the Elves and Nords came claimed the lands through war conquering and brutality, then claimed the people they conquered couldn't possibly have created these structures and they must have been made by their dieties and or ancestors. Honestly sometimes it feels like dieties in the elder scrolls are almost like in the hallmark Merlin movie with Sam Neill, and they only exist from belief, and are created from it, and disappear without it.

[@futurewario9591]

Please do some FALLOUT PODCASTS too.

[@subhuman8945]

46:15 nobody's ever thinking that omfg 🙄🙄🙄🙄

[@breathofdifferentair1950]

Imo, tes lore is like real life. No religion can answer all questions with impunity. I personally believe they each have bits and pieces 100% correct, and then interpretation takes place

[@Saber23]

Yaaay I was waiting for a podcast like this thanks you three 😊🙏

[@Azeeeer]

Hello there

[@michaelrobb9542]

General Kenobi.

[@rolfsonofrolf9286]

Heya

[@ajh8566]

@@michaelrobb9542 you beat me to it lol

[@malphasblackwing420]

General Kenobi

[@noahtylerpritchett2682]

The two aren't mutually exclusive. I consider Atmorans as Atmoran and Nedes as indigenous Tamrielians. And no I do not believe in the theory that Atmorans are descendants of Tamrielian Nedes migrating to atmora from Tamriel either. I believe Nords are a fusion of Nedes and Atmorans. I also believe Colovians are a fusion of Nedes and Nords and again already believe Nords exist already mix as Nede and Atmoran. Interestingly I made a video where believed redguards are Nede Yakudan mix race. Not pure race Yakudans.