Göbekli Tepe: Prehistoric Evidence for Animism?

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Bibliography:
Dušan Boric, "Theater of Predation: Beneath the Skin of Göbekli Tepe Images," 2013
Oliver Dietrich, "Shamanism at Early Neolithic Göbekli Tepe," Praehistorische Zeitschrift, 2023.
O. Dietrich, Notroff, Walter, and L. Dietrich, "Markers of 'Psycho-Cultural' Change," in "Handbook of Cognitive Archaeology Psychology in Prehistory," 2020.
Anne Porter, "Beer, Beasts, and Bodies: Shedding Boundaries in Bounded Spaces," Routledge Companion to Ecstatic Experience in the Ancient World, 2021.
Gesualdo Busacca, "Places of Encounter," 2017.
Anna Fagan, "Hungry Architecture," dainst.blog, Dec 18, 2017.
Nerissa Russell and Kevin McGowan, "Dance of the Cranes: Crane Symbolism at Çatalhöyük and beyond," 2003.
Hodder and Meskell, "A Curious and Sometimes a Trifle Macabre Artistry," Current Anthropology, Vol. 52, No. 2 (April 2011).
00:00 Introduction
1:39 Animal iconography overview
4:00 Animism Explained
6:59 Neolithic Animal Personhood
11:00 Predatory, Male, Aggressive Iconography
Select imagery/video supplied by Getty Images

[@ReligionForBreakfast]

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[@robertfaucher3750]

Hmm this is really useful for this Pokemon project I'm working on

[@rmot2911]

Your videos are nice but please learn to slow down. Some people may not be able to catch on to what you are saying because of speaking fast. Many Americans have that issue which is why many people have to use subtitles to catch on to what many of you are saying as many talk too fast. Slow down, keep speaking clearly as that too is important. Lastly, thanks for the lovely video content too as very informative too

[@smh23100]

@@rmot2911 You can slow down (or speed up) any KZbin video using the "playback speed" function under settings on the video.

[@JasonDennis-kx2gz]

​@@rmot2911I agree with smh's suggestion. I just recently in the last 4 months discovered this feature and it is invaluable for me to digest and metabolize info..imho.

[@RalphEllis]

Gobekli was a necropolis, not a temple or city. The bodies were left for three years, and the bones taken away. Same as the Harran necropolis, just down the road from Gobekli. R

[@wrestlersmith97]

You said "they may have assumed animals were persons" but I think more accurately "we weren't yet so removed from other animals". It's easier to remember you're a part of nature when predators are still one of your biggest worries

[@LimeyLassen]

Out of all the genres of horror people have made of the years, there's still nothing more scary than being hunted by an animal.

[@Rhaenarys]

Its funny, you make a really good point, but one people usually only acknowledge when it comes to tool making or shelters. Not usually when it comes to primitive beliefs. But youre right. We ARE animals, but at that time, humanity wouldve been closer to thinking more animal like than we do now.

[@rykloog9578]

One benefit that technologies like metal, livestock, and agriculture have is that humans can afford to be less dependent on nature. I think this is a key difference in why more hunter gather like cultures are more animistic, since their culture can’t afford to be as removed from nature due to their simpler technology

[@RalphEllis]

Gobekli was a necropolis, not a temple or city. The bodies were left for three years, and the bones taken away. Same as the Harran necropolis, just down the road from Gobekli. R

[@kai_fatallysapphic]

yes, i treat bugs with the same respect i would a person, just in case they are capable of fear and pain (i have seen studies that lead me to believe it's likely they do)

[@fawziekefli2273]

I wonder what future archeologists will think of us if they ever get their hands on a Bat-Man comic.

[@chrisl4999]

They will think we worshipped bats because clearly that’s the only relationship man can have with literally anything people find in the dirt.

[@hedgehog3180]

I mean superheroes in general and batman specifically are a really obvious reflection of the society we live in. Batman is a capitalist who's superpower literally is that he's rich, it's hard to get more on the nose about the fact that we live in a capitalist society.

[@maus8737]

@@chrisl4999this is an extremely reductive take

[@jasonblalock4429]

I think there is something interestingly "mythological" in how many superheroes involve taking on the powers or attributes of an animal. Batman, Spider-Man, Cat Woman, Blue Beetle, Wolverine, etc. It kind of feels like we've never entirely shed that ancient reverence for powerful creatures, even if we're now too rationalist to embrace such idols directly.

[@Eidelmania]

Super heroes are basically contemporary Gods.

[@DneilB007]

If I may throw in some context for Gobekli Tepe: Djoser’s pyramid (the step pyramid) is the oldest known pyramid in Egypt, and dates to around 2650 BCE, or about 4800 years ago, give or take. The site at Gobekli Tepe is from around 9500 to 8000 BCE, or about 10,000 to 11,000 years ago. Djoser’s pyramid was built closer in time to today than to the time of Gobekli Tepe. That’s mind-blowing old.

[@4473021]

Jesus thats old asf

[@russellmillar7132]

Better tell Graham Hancock. He accepts that pyramids were built in old kingdom, not that I consider his opinion to be worth much. Which dating method was used to date both of these sites? Why do you think they got the date for the stepped pyramid so wrong?

[@scorpioninpink]

And then you have Karahan Tepe which is older than Gobekli Tepe.

[@thecomprehensionhub4612]

The Northern Mexican indigenous group known as "The Yaquis" highly esteem the deer as their saving grace, since their history says that they were a nomadic group that moved north to the Sonoran desert. They were in a survival situation, and they would observe and follow groups of deer that would know exactly where water and vegetation was at. And the deers would provide meat as well. Animals have always been seen as conscious intelligences that human have learn much from, and I understand why Animism is a central root for ancient religions and ceremonies.

[@TechBearSeattle]

I took some cultural anthropology classes in college back in the late 80s. One professor talked about "the great god Mayco" as an example of how easy it was to misinterpret archaeological artifacts. The story is that, in the far future, a group of archaeologists uncover a building filled with things such as porcelain figurines, clothes, and metal sculptures. After some work, they translated the name on the building as Mayco. So, naturally, they assumed that Mayco was a deity of some kind, the building was a temple, and the artifacts were votive offerings left by worshipers seeking favor. The size of the building and the quantity of artifacts clearly showed that Mayco must have been very important. The point being that May Co is a department store.

[@traildoggy]

the sheer number of plastic lighters could lead someone to believe we had a severe psychic anxiety about being caught without fire.

[@thomaswillard6267]

​@@traildoggyIs that not just a cigarette addiction?

[@PaulWiele]

In a similar vein, one of my favorite childhood books (I was a weird child) was "Motel of the Mysteries" by David Macaulay, a satirical story about archaeologists in the distant future excavating a "tomb" (actually a motel) in the ancient country of "Usa", which was destroyed by being literally buried in junk mail.

[@jasonblalock4429]

@@PaulWiele I *loved* that book so much. Glad to know I wasn't the only one who had my view of archaeology warped by it, at a young age. 🙂And yeah, it left me somewhat skeptical whenever I see archaeologists default to "it's religious!" as their go-to explanation for any artifact they can't ID. That said, in this case the complex having a lot of animal bones in it that seem to correspond to the figures on the pillars DOES sound like it had some sort of ritual significance. It probably wasn't just a slaughterhouse, anyway.

[@TechBearSeattle]

@@thomaswillard6267 - Plastic takes ages -- as in geological ages -- to decompose. Cigarettes are very biodegradable and would be unlikely to fossilize. So archaeologists in a couple of centuries will likely find a very large number of disposable plastic lighters and no cigarettes. If these scientists did not already know of cigarettes, the conclusion traildoggy offered is very likely.

[@daenerys30]

I think if there was more animism in modern society, we would treat the environment with a lot more respect

[@thomaswillard6267]

​@NamelessMist this is a none response? The person wasn't speaking to viability of animism to propogate in society, just whether it would have a particular impact if it did.

[@marshalmarrs3269]

The western world would be a better place if it was a more linguistically/culturally/spiritually/religiously diverse place!

[@LimeyLassen]

I think American culture suffers particularly from being young and disconnected from nature.

[@marshalmarrs3269]

@@LimeyLassen as well as their brains being fried and addled by the long bastardized version of Christianity!

[@MJ-cv5ye]

Did you visit Kaharen Tepe too? Much more obscure, only discovered in 2019 & barely excivated due to Covid. Its 13,000 years old at least. Very cool place. Hope you knew to see it

[@kermitz3808]

There is also Aşıklı Höyük near Çatalhöyük and it also holds lots of archeological potential! They say "the first brain surgery" was done there.

[@lbjcb5]

Those carvings are so beautiful and so well preserved after thousands of years.

[@nebulan]

I love trying to imagine a day in the life of someone so ancient

[@ThirdEyeAngel]

Same! It’s crazy how many distractions there are these days. A simpler time sounds nice. What did they think about back then 🤔

[@seanhewitt603]

Hah!, give it time. This society is living an unsustainable way of life. The ecology can handle only so much, until it can't. Then the collapse is like a landslide. Abrupt and devastating. One second, you first world morons will be huffing along, the next, blammo!! Ecological collapse. No more selfish first world morons poisoning anything anymore.

[@Ithirahad]

@@ThirdEyeAngel Mostly domestic issues, this-or-that thing having broken and needing replaced, threats of military invasion, rivalries and problems with neighbours, officials, and coworkers, how to solve persistent problems, how much they'd like to get with some guy/gal they can't have... same as what you're used to honestly, just without worrying about global affairs beyond our control or all the rest of the noise that mass media introduces, and they didn't have to worry about things like insurance; instead you generally just die :P

[@LimeyLassen]

I picture them as nomads living in pitched tents, with related clans that would travel a long distance to big stone ritual centers to have conferences and make decisions on stuff. If these sites were in continual use for centuries, they probably looked old and worn even when they were active.

[@wongar1886]

One of my favorite tubers talking about my favorite topic in the world, today is a very good day

[@hedgehog3180]

I'm definitely looking forward to more content about both pre-historic and indigenous religion.

[@seanhewitt603]

You think we're all stupid like Catholics, that we BELIEVE in a god... Just because we didn't create internal combustion engines, doesn't mean we're dumber than a westerner. Quite the opposite, WE were never weak and wimpy wusses who need advanced technology to thrive on earth. Also, we knew the pitfalls of relying on a CRUTCH. PSYCHOLOGICALLY having a need for more and more tools is a sign of fragility.

[@JOHNBANNON-ib3cj]

WHY?? READ THE BIBLE!!!

[@theangryginger7582]

​@@JOHNBANNON-ib3cjWhy not both?

[@hedgehog3180]

@@JOHNBANNON-ib3cj The bible is by definition not pre-historic, like that was the entire point of my comment why do I have to explain it?

[@DouglasASean]

I am an Indigenous Australian, the Brolga is my Totem. In cultures around the world, the Crane is a symbol of wisdom, science, record keeping, and planning. It is often the totem of a person who is involved in some way in governance but not specifically a leader. The people who built this were obviously capable of planning and likely had a system of governance, each symbol representing a member or position in the semi-religious governing body, these were likely semi-religious/semi governmental buildings intended to be generational, maybe even to facilitate the generational transfer of power as many tribal traditions around the world have very similar structures and themes

[@bluesoulsearcher5424]

Thank you for your input! This video was great but I’d really love to hear more indigenous perspectives on it.

[@DouglasASean]

@@bluesoulsearcher5424 Thank you, The themes in this video are common in many cultures around the globe especially themes of semi-animalistic forms, myths that formed the core metaphors of their culture in much the same way ours does, a modern example would be the Bold Eagle if you are American. A great many of these cultures are very much still alive and well despite hundreds of years of cultural genocide

[@pcarebear1]

Thanks a bunch for your interpretation based on your background! I've been so interested in Gobekli Tepe and Cappadocia, I see so many parallels in ancient Near East religions with my own Hispanic (Indigenous Central American, Afro-Caribbean, Spanish/Medit.) culture. Holding animals/plants/mountains/etc. with spiritual significance makes sense to me, we have altars for our ancestors, respect for animals (we have totems too, but we call them nahual). So amazing to see how our beliefs today are not that different from millennia ago.

[@DouglasASean]

@@pcarebear1 I also have an interest in other tribal traditions, there are clear threads of belief running throughout tribal traditions around the world a lot of which are still practiced

[@matthewrappe7667]

Would you say that the crane is also a skilled hunter?

[@epsilonjay4123]

You should do a video on the religion of the Harappan Civilization. I haven't found many videos about that and I'd love to learn more about it, especially its connection to Hinduism.

[@jakobfromthefence]

Animism is a very wholesome life attitude. And it doesn’t necessarily exclude any other understanding

[@karlscher5170]

But inanimate objects have no agency.

[@kj_H65f]

​@@karlscher5170if your boomer dad can personify his fishing boat then I can personify a mountain. Also I am not so convinced you have any more agency than that mountain. I don't see you creating rivers or sustaining herds of elk.

[@sirlancelot9570]

As a long time turkish fan of yours hopefully you had a pleasant time in Turkey and I wish that I could’ve come across you while visiting the site. Maybe you can come once again to do a video about Ephesus or something of that kind down the line.

[@kenziedayne4234]

Some Native American tribes had groups within the tribe that were associated with an animal for that group. For example the Wolf Clan, a group of warriors of the Cherokee tribe. Is it possible the animals were representing different groups within the tribe, or perhaps different tribes. If it was an annual gathering place for many tribes in the region, perhaps it was a way to say "this is snake clan space, this is scorpion clan space", etc. I can see small groups of people coming together yearly, or bi yearly, to share food, rituals, find new mates, etc. Perhaps those animals weren't worshiped per se, so much as the totems were designating what area of the site belonged to what group. And of course they had a relationship with animals, they were hunters. You pray to the spirit of the animals to provide a good hunt, to thank them for their sacrifice, to protect your tribe, etc.

[@LimeyLassen]

I think this is the best theory. It fits the evidence, it explains why they put the effort into building the place, and people have done very similar things all over the world.

[@godlessqueertheywarnedyouabout]

Looking forward to a future video about shamanism(s) as alluded to at 10:08! From what I can tell, shamanistic traditions seem to have received much of the same treatment as animistic beliefs: the dominant culture says, "and here's everything that's alien or primitive to me, so I'm just going to group it all in one giant basket and not take it seriously."

[@keitolainen7459]

I was thinking the same thing. In college we had a professor who talked about how some scholars argue we shouldn't use the term "shamanism", since it is specific to siberian religions. The word "shaman" comes from a Tunguistic language. Similar idea to what this video says about "Animism"... that it's a colonial term that isn't useful. Personally I think words shift meaning and connotations over time, so I'm not sure we should be too quick to throw the baby out with the bathwater.

[@originaluddite]

@@keitolainen7459 one difference between the terms 'animism' and 'shamanism' is that the former is an invented generic term while the latter was derived from a particular culture and then generalized to all seemingly similar practices. I suspect that it is easier to rehabilitate the invented term than the appropriated one.

[@johannageisel5390]

Sadly, many "shamanistic" traditions have been eradicated in the course of the Russian imperialistic conquest of Siberia. :( As with the Native American cultures, we can only piece together the fragments we find today, but there is very little left about the original practices. However, there is an interesting find from Germany, the so-called "Shaman of Bad Dürrenberg": A ca. 9000 year old woman from the mesolithic period, where Europe was still inhabited by hunter-gatherers. The farming folks would arrive from Anatolia only a few hundred years later. This woman has been inhumed in an elaborate grave chamber and with many grave goods like tools, drilled-through animal teeth and other things where the function is not quite clear. There was a kind of mask made from the skull of a male roe deer with its antlers attached. The origin of the stone tools is spread over an area of around 50km radius, which is interpreted as one indicator that she was a famous person whose funeral attracted people from quite a large area. There are two really outstanding things about her: First, she has a rare deformation in her neck vertebrae that probably lead to a major artery to the brain being cut off whenever she tilted her head in a certain direction. This cutting-off triggers a nystagmus (involuntary eye movements) in 70 to 80% of modern patients with a comparable anomaly. Second, right next to her grave two other antler masks were found, this time made from red deer bucks. But they are 600 years younger than the grave. And there are no other mesolithic finds in the vicinity, so the likelyhood of them ending up there by chance is very low. They must have been placed there deliberately, which means that people remembered the grave of this woman for 600 years. All indicators taken together she is being interpreted as a spiritual leader of her community and probably did things that would today be called "shamanism". If you want to know more about this find, go to the youtube channel "State Museum of Prehistory Halle" and watch their playlist "Neue Forschungen zur Schamanin von Bad Dürrenberg". The videos are in German, but the auto-translation into English works quite well.

[@alexanderren1097]

Great video! I’m confident that as more and more of these ancient sites are excavated and studied, there’s going to be significant revisions made to our understanding of the complexity and timeline of human civilizations across the world

[@russellmillar7132]

That's why archaeology exists.

[@alexanderren1097]

@@russellmillar7132 not just archeology. And actually with the leaps and bounds in remote sensing technology and geologic techniques, archeologists are very limited in what they can do under the standard methodology they’ve employed for decades. With ground penetrating radar, LIDAR, and other technologies, it’s the geologists and radiologists that will be making greater contributions to our knowledge of the past. Fortunately there’s a rising crop of young new archeologists that are embracing these technologies and are willing to collaborate with these other specialists. I’m hopeful that once the old guard of archeologists like Zahi Abass Hawass retire and stop impeding or outright banning geologists from these sites, that rapid progress will be made

[@ConradSpoke]

The fact that these engravings are bas-relief is truly staggering.

[@BeautifulHestia]

This was one of the better videos on Gobleki Tepe that I’ve seen in a while!

[@phlezktravels]

Can't wait to visit this site one day!

[@ladywhatsername713]

I learned about Göbekli Tepe in a lecutre at my University and to that day I'm just at awe when I think about it. Such a great accomplishment of early civilizations.

[@kurtkabat203]

It’s strange claiming Göbekli Teppei as hunter gathers. It’s clearly advanced civilizations that once occupied this remarkable ancient domicile.

[@hedgehog3180]

@@kurtkabat203 There's no reason to believe Göbekli Tepe was not built by hunter gatherers other than prejudices about hunter gatherers as primitive and unable to have large scale organization. The fact that the complex only depicts wild animals and doesn't depict any domesticated crops also makes it extremely clear that it wasn't built by an agricultural society.

[@hedgehog3180]

Calling it a civilization is a bit misleading since this society was not what we typically associate with the term. Göbekli Tepe was not permanently occupied, the people who built it didn't have agriculture and most tellingly we do not see any evidence of wealth disparity, which is one of the clearest markers of the kind of society we usually call a civilization. That being said the term civilization itself is also problematic because it implies that to be uncivilized is inferior and bad.

[@kurtkabat203]

@@hedgehog3180 I don’t think you can rule out at scale organized agriculture. Maybe they practice homesteading style or local cooperative crop production. Anyway i am merely speculating and open minded to anything. However it’s fascinating and certainly overtime more will be revealed.

[@ladywhatsername713]

they can still be hunter-gatherer to get food though. Don't think organization and hunter gatherer are mutually exclusive.

[@Swampdragon102]

This video still needs to answer an important question: did people 11k years ago know what the fox says?

[@physics77guy]

if people can tame foxes now, how it could be difficult when these people might not have a structured language. they are more close to animals and nature

[@Swampdragon102]

@@physics77guy for the record: this is a reference to the 2013 viral hit song "What does the fox say?"

[@johannageisel5390]

@@physics77guy 11k years ago, people had the same brains and larynxes as we today. They definitely had a structured language already. Neanderthals probably too. Before them it's hard to tell.

[@DaveLopez575]

I really enjoy these videos as I have a fascination for the different topics discussed in the channel. Thorough and informative. Thank you so much!

[@michaelciarla3836]

Man I can't get enough of this stuff!! 💥💥 Your work is awesome!!

[@lakrids-pibe]

Oooh have you been there? I'm so envious. I really want to visit Göbekli Tepe

[@smh23100]

He says in the video that he took tons of original footage while visiting Gobekli Tepe during a trip to eastern Turkey.

[@mgbilby]

Another brilliant and truly educational episode, plumb full of excellent research and on-the-ground insight. Well done!

[@reeyees50]

Thank you for another well researched video Dr. Andrew

[@kamihemmerling336]

Very informative and clever material, thank you for making it

[@alexanderaugustus]

I had not realised until this video how heavily laden the idea of animism is in scholarly discourse. I'm mostly into Greek and Roman (and in part Mesopotamian and Egyptian) religion, which have crystallised into certain convictions. However, I do agree with the aforementioned researchers that we shouldn't dismiss the concept of animism right away alltogether, but rather, try to see if a modified version fits the stone age sanctuaries we've discovered. Very interesting video, thank you.

[@diamondportal77]

Yeah Greek and Rome religion has animist elements. Dryads, nymphs, genius loci, gods that are more personifications of concepts. e.g. Victoria(victory)

[@darrenrodgers6425]

This is why I’ve been watching this channel for so many years. Thank you for investigation and great script as usual.

[@thomashammel7633]

This is the most helpful video I've seen relating to animism so far, thank you!

[@Alvetal]

Never been here this early. Love your videos!

[@fabiocoelho4873]

Good use of the Mickey Mouse public domain for the animation explanation, the mouse is OURS!

[@francisfischer7620]

Your observations are utterly fascinating!!

[@rujerez]

Estos videos, sobre Prehistoria y Antigüedad, son mis favoritos ❤

[@J.A.Smith2397]

Great video and interesting thoughts

[@Florkl]

Just because people attach incorrect and problematic implications to a concept doesn’t make the original concept incorrect. I don’t see a reason to stop using animism when it fits just because people had flawed and racist theories about it any more than I see a reason to stop using genetics just because people had flawed and racist theorists about it. “The world is full of persons, only some of whom are human,” is a really interesting concept that shouldn’t be discarded just because of some racist idiots. The idea that Animism can’t be separated from its baggage says more about us than it does about animism.

[@whiteegretx]

100% agree. You get it.

[@Morfeusm]

This is too much nuanced for modern audience.

[@carlosalbuquerque22]

I largely agree but it should be applied correctly. Not all cultures historically labelled as "animist" actually are, like some Aboriginal and Andaman Island examples

[@hedgehog3180]

I mean the problem is that it is really hard to seperate it from its origins. It's such a broad category that it risks lumping way too much together. Like it basically describes every possible type of religion that does not have anthropomorphic gods, which is obviously a way too big category. I mean imagine if we did the opposite and just talked about “theistic” religions and thus lumped Christianity, Mesoamerican Mythology and Hinduism together, that would obviously be way too broad a category and lead to the incorrect assumption that these are similar religions. You bring up genetics but the thing about is that it was first concieved without racist intentions and then later misused, to me a more fitting comparison might be eugenics, a concept so inherently racist that it could not be saved.

[@richardkrauss80]

Very valid point and maybe more important then ever.

[@rinsimon5467]

Based on what you briefly described and pulling from my own culture I would posit the possibility that this was a location where acts of governance would take place. The different animals could be representatives of communities, families or those who hold a certain position within the governance structure. Of course ritual and ceremony work would happen during this time as well and there is no limit to the potentiality of ritualized ceremonies take place at this location. What a fascinating find.

[@francisfischer7620]

Absolutely fascinating!! Holy smokes! AMAZING lecture!! Thank you!!

[@francisfischer7620]

O k! 3rd time through...one of the most fascinating lectures I've ever heard!! Thank you!! Dr. Fischer Ph.D.

[@Mr.Mathias-Berg]

Isn't Shinto in some ways a form of Animism?

[@floptaxie68]

Yes, and fox are seen as messengers of kami

[@tonysladky8925]

And here I thought I was being clever that my D&D dragons use "Breath" as a proper noun to refer both to the blasts of fire, lightning, ice etc. that issue from their mouths as well as their souls. Turns out I just accidentally stumbled into real-world etymology...

[@jasonblalock4429]

In Genesis 2, God is described as breathing into Adam to bring him to life, which is why breath and souls tend to be closely connected in various Abrahamic lore. It's a very old concept.

[@hedgehog3180]

There's probably a reason why this association between breathing and the soul exists and it's a very obvious one. When you are born you take your first breath and you will continue to breath until the moment you die and usually death is marked by you finally exhaling your last breath. The conclusion people likely drew from this is that when you are born you breathe in something in that animates you and keeps you alive and when you die and breathe your last breath that thing that kept you alive leaves your body. This imagination probably lead to the idea of spirits and souls down the line. And of course in a sense this is sorta true since the thing you breathe in is oxygen and that does keep you alive, but you also need way more things to keep yourself alive so if you stop breathing that's because your body became so damaged that it was unable to continue breathing.

[@josephpaulduffey873]

Now, THIS is a great video and the absolute best discussion of Gobekli Tepe I've seen yet. Dr. Henry is hitting the exact nail on the head. What did any of this mean in the real lives of these people? Look at just how vital this issue of defining "human" versus "animal" is in the history of life. This work, plain and simple, exposes masterful artwork at these sites which I haven't seen put in its true context by any other researchers. Incredible.

[@RandomRikster]

Very interesting video, I love learning new things so this channel is right up my alley.

[@Thegrimforest]

Just because animism has some baggage associated with it doesn’t mean that it makes it inherently inaccurate I would say that religious evolution isn’t moving towards a “better religion” rather that it changes and adapts in cooperation with societal change; I’d liken it to the evolution of color words, not that any system is better but it tends to develop and evolve in predicable ways. The best example I would give is henotheism that naturally emerges from polytheistic practice; for example: religions in the Indian Subcontinent, Sol Invictis, Aten, Ku’kailimoku, Yahweh, etc Has there been any monotheist nomadic/pastoralist/hunter-gatherer society that wasn’t influence by an outside source that didn’t develop from polytheistic practice? It’s not a value judgement, just observation of human behavior that tends to develop in predictable ways

[@willjapheth23789]

Ye? How are animal spirits inferior? We can see king deities appear when we started having human kings as if divinity has to follow human authority structure. How is that any less ridiculous. It's religion, not an IQ test.

[@hedgehog3180]

But you're still making the assumption that there is such a development when I'd point out that Monotheism is actually quite rare. Sure today monotheistic religions are the biggest ones but they're all abrahamic religions that developed from the same source and then just got lucky that they were adopted by several major empires. But how often did monotheism actually develop? I only know of three examples, Judaism, Zoroastrianism and the temporary monotheism in Ancient Egypt, I might be wrong but to me monotheism seems like an odd exception that just got lucky. Similar to how English ended up becoming a global language through the coincidence of two successive superpowers using it. There's no predictable pattern of evolution here just history and history is very unpredictable. To me this sounds similar to the idea that technology necessarily develops in one linear direction, depicted in the franchise Civilization as a linear tech tree. But like there's no historical evidence for this, technology has no set direction and different cultures made different innovations at different times and had vastly different technological inventory. Industrial technology based on fosil fuels was never an inevitability but spread with the empires who had developed it and even then there were often possible alternative directions that weren't chosen.

[@Thegrimforest]

@@willjapheth23789 who said they were inferior? Animism comes about when hunting-gathering/nomadic/pastoralist cultures develop their religious beliefs because that is the primary center of their lives: gathering food, hunting, and animal husbandry and it reflects the society that underpins it. And usually the structure of those societies are much less stratified and that is reflected in their religious beliefs; henotheism/imperial cults/god-kingship are a commonality of practically all polytheistic religions/socities that have a centralized ruler

[@willjapheth23789]

@@Thegrimforest well the video said some peolple felt animism was a racist interpretation of religion because they called it primitive or whatever.

[@generalmazur]

I appreciate the discussion of Animism, and though I don't know about using a term with so much baggage, it made me realize that we do need at least some term to describe the position that natural entities other than humans are ensouled or have personhood. Although a monotheist, this is also a position I myself hold, yet until seeing the way the scholars in this video reframed animism, I would never before have thought to apply the term to myself.

[@robbabcock_]

Fascinating! It's hard to imagine that we'll ever know much about the actual religious beliefs of cultures that ancient.

[@GraniteChief369]

Great channel, great subject, great presentation as always.

[@HikuMurakami]

thank god my favorite critical thinking scholars in youtube are reporting on gobekli tepe, after the netflix conspiracy documentary's disaster xD

[@Unsolicited-Info]

This channel single handedly got me into theology

[@john2432]

*Religious studies

[@Unsolicited-Info]

@@john2432 is that supposed to be like the equivalent of “I’m not religious, but I’m spiritual” 🙄

[@hillbillypowpow]

But this channel isn't about theology, it's about religious anthropology. It's about the people that held the beliefs and practiced the rituals, not about the material of the beliefs themselves.

[@Unsolicited-Info]

@@hillbillypowpow while you might be right regarding the channel, theology is a personal endeavor

[@hillbillypowpow]

@@Unsolicited-Info I'm just gonna say that whenever someone tells me I'm wrong now. "actually they implied that, not inferred it." "you may be right, but inference is a personal endeavor." Thank you

[@markdeffebach8112]

When Klaus Smith was still alive and working this site, I used to watch videos by a fella who was allowed access to this site by Klaus. They suggested that the animals represented start consolations that were similar and related to today's astrological cobstilations. They shows overlays of consolations with the images and also henge like alighments.

[@marijnpelkmans1338]

To anyone interested in this time period, I highly recommend reading The Celestial Hunter by Calasso. Especially the first chapters are majestic in the way they conjure up how and why mankind used to merge with the animal realm. “Everything, from spiders to the dead, occurred within a single flow of forms. It was the realm of metamorphosis,” Calasso asserts. Truly a gem of a book and a wonderful author on bygone ages.

[@racksityentertainment]

I really wonder how they came to the conclusion it was religious? Why wouldn’t be a kind of library storing records of knowledge, discoveries?

[@afaegfsgsdef]

That always seems to be the assumption. As if ancient cultures never gathered for any reason beyond religion.

[@mer-ka-ba-]

Writing was created thousands of years after this so a library in the traditional sense doesn’t seem fitting. At the time (with no phones, social media, shopping malls) people would have focused intensely on what mattered most. Such as their next meal, reproducing, and our place here on earth/how we fit in it all. In that context, religion would’ve been extremely important and worth putting a lot of effort into since a stone is just that in the end. You can’t eat a rock or make a baby with a leopard carving, but the effort put in would’ve elicited something within it’s builders/visitors/believers. For simplicity’s sake, you could understand “religion” as “reasoning” as their way of understanding the universe around them.

[@TechBearSeattle]

From what we know of the first historical cultures -- those that left written records -- there was essentially no distinction between religion, magic, science, and the arts. The earliest kingships emerged out of the priesthood, and knowledge gained from observing the natural world was gathered as a way to better understand the gods and spirits in order to better propitiate them. Music, poetry, and theater began as forms of worship and gaining divine favor. It was only later that these fields diverged, some quite recently: science and natural philosophy did not diverge until the late Renaissance, for example.

[@jomolhari]

​@@user-zl8um3pb8v that seems like an statement that should be proven before claiming it's true.

[@russellmillar7132]

@@afaegfsgsdef Sure. They had school board meetings and poker night.

[@mitchelmodine9197]

Love the Steamboat Willie clip in here. #copyrightday

[@studiometaart1974]

Great Video, thanks for posting 🙏🏾

[@GangGang1]

Hope to visit there someday!

[@Jhaldmer]

Your pronunciation of Göbekli Tepe and Çatalhöyük are the best I heard on English KZbin. Much appreciated.

[@teaburg]

In this region the practice of keeping skulls of deceased loved ones followed shortly afterwards. I'm still leaning towards this being a place to bring the dead to be defleshed by the animals depicted, with a ceremony once a year to collect the bones.

[@thomaswillard6267]

That doesn't make sense? Boars in particular are not known for leaving remains.

[@apathybronson]

Yeah no. Foxes aren't scavengers. Pigs love eating bones. Spiders aren't of use either for defleshing anything but a praying mantis. That's the most depicted animals, none of which would be of use for what you propose. That theory makes no sense

[@lulubelle0bresil]

Wonderful video, thank you!

[@lnbjr7]

Great product video, Thank You! Is there any indication that the T structures were painted?

[@professorariel]

Furry is the most ancient religion

[@AlejandroFredes]

I loved Graham Harvey's definition of animism

[@GoodNewsEveryone2999]

Very interesting. I lean toward the theater/ritual place for sky burials idea just on first impressions. It makes sense with both the body parts and the all the animals looking in thing, and the high ratio of predators thing... although so often first impressions are incorrect. This one will be very interesting to dive into more.

[@icenarsin5283]

Always love your work

[@kariannecrysler640]

The continued reuse of t pillars points to practical reverence for the carvings. They didn’t necessarily idolize the carvings. The Prehistory Guys channel has some excellent stuff from the current site director for anyone who’s interested. I’ll leave the link below.

[@kariannecrysler640]

youtube.com/@ThePrehistoryGuys?si=mq0IKhOcjK018c_Y Prehistory Guys

[@barbrr]

i don't see the link :(

[@kariannecrysler640]

@@barbrr I’m trying one of the videos directly & not just the channel this time. kzbin.infoiY8Tsy66xks?si=Y5y_Jk5JO1WMGl60

[@meaninglez100]

So what you're saying is...there's always been furries

[@thomaswillard6267]

You joke, but it isn't a joke, it's like that meme 'You mean religion is just 山乇乇乃　丂卄丨ㄒ ?' "It always has been"

[@midoriya-shonen]

Gobekli Tepe is fascinating. Thanks for covering it!

[@wasnt.here.3853]

SO excited to see you finally do a vide on Göbekli Tepe! Did you have any trouble getting to the site? It seems like it is not an area with a great deal of tourist infrastructure but I'd still like to go one day

[@lakrids-pibe]

Well, so much for Marija Gimbutas' goddess- and woman-centered "old European system" She was right about the Kurgan hypothesis - the Proto-Indo-European (PIE) speaking peoples originating and spreading from the pontic steppe. But the simple division between a matriarchal "old system" , and an patriarchal (and violent) "new" kurgan system, is probably taking it too far.

[@hedgehog3180]

Just because Göbekli Tepe shows signs of male centering doesn't mean that all pre-historic societies were like that and we should probably assume that pre-historic societies were just as diverse as historical ones. It's probably also a safe assumption that they weren't static and could change over time. Basically we can't make any kind of generalizations about human societies at any point in history.

[@richardkrauss80]

She left the path of science with that one, true. It is one of those things where one think's it is a fascinating and interesting theory and it *feels* true (partly because we are indoctrinated since childhood with western concepts of female superiority) but then you realize there is zero evidence for it. Anyway, mainstream archaeology dismissed Gimbutas's later works for good reason.

[@iachtulhu1420]

@@hedgehog3180 Both of you are correct.

[@qboxer]

Gimbutas’s erudition on the origin of the Indo Europeans does not change the fact that she had an absurd and manifestly incorrect theory about the structure of those they replaced. The Neolithic farmers of Europe were extremely patriarchal.

[@richardkrauss80]

She left the path of science with that one, true. It is one of those things where one think's it is a fascinating and interesting theory and it feels true (partly because we are indoctrinated since childhood with western concepts of female superiority) but then you realize there is zero evidence for it. Anyway, mainstream archaeology dismissed Gimbutas's later works for good reason.

[@Vroomerz]

Imagine our current world disappeared as we know it. Imagine archeologists 10,000 years later find: screen shots of the Game of Thrones tv show, a copy of 50 Shades of grey, a partial costume from a Carnival dancer, and a tickle me Elmo. What would they think about us?

[@simonbattle0001]

This was very good and could explain or fill in some gaps into the why's of the deep beliefs in many indigenous peoples connections to living things around them including water, sky and the ground we walk on. I can't prove it, but I think if these relationships with environments and all living things had won out over what we have now where nature, resources and animals are here for our careless exploitation things would be very different on this planet and life would be of a better quality for the many instead of lavish selfishness for the few.

[@will420high4]

It's mindblowing how old this place is, the human mind can't actually comprehend this far in time, the fact is much older than what we already see as very ancient is why Gobekli Tepe is mesmerizing!! Imagine being able to go back in time and see this extremelly primitive proto-society giving birth to our species early believes and architecture!! This place feels like the cradle of human society!

[@Bobson_Dugnutt_Esq]

8200 BCE- Some guy: “the world is still formless and void. There won’t be anything here for 3,000 years!” Everyone else: “…” Some guy: “And there’s going to be a worldwide flood and this huge tower and….” Other guy: “Don’t mind Dave. He had some weird mushrooms last night.”

[@Jahjaga]

Hell yeah. Prehistoric religions are some of the most interesting. Cant wait for the next video.

[@biliom7]

I've always thought Gobekli Tepi and the other sites from this culture OUGHT to be fascinating - so old compared to other constructed stone places - but they always just seemed odd when actually looking at them. But when you mention the benches and I hear this word - theatre - and the movement (the crane is clearly doing the jump it's famous for, in its mating dance, and you point out the fox is also jumping), this is a place for dynamic movement, and those flattened floors are just right for dancing - then suddenly there's this compelling picture of a place that may indeed have had some magical aspect but was also very much a place of entertainment. We have a love/hate relationship with dangerous animals - we crave the thrill of getting out amongst them, but we also want to make safe enclosures that lock them out. Hunter gatherers often like story telling, animal mimicry, dances by firelight. Suddenly i can comprehend why they might have gobe to all this effort - such events in such spaces would indeed have been thrilling. And it adds an earlier chapter to the story of theatrical spaces in the Mediterranean world. Greek theatre still had vestiges of animal dances, the various animal choruses of Athenian Old Comedy for example, and the satyr plays. The Ancient Greeks still performed a dance called the Crane, and in Crete they STILL do a dance with big leaps. Minoan figurines from three millenia ago show circle dances, and Greek people CONTINUE to pass on the circle dances. What if such dances have their roots in the "pre-pottery neolithic"? Daedalus escaping the labyrinth with wings made of feathers glued with wax - a story inspired by seeing crane dances in neolithic subterranean theatres?

[@phlezktravels]

Hi. I like your channel.

[@KSharpei]

Class act. My mans remembered his FIRST AND LAST NAME from a distance, at a press conference with a dozen other people in the room. Just think about how many people you could recognize from high school out of a group of other random, while being in your 30s-40s. Do I remember most of my teammates names from then, of course, but man this is no mean feat.

[@joellynemackinnon7356]

I was I southeastern turkey at the beginning on 2023 mainly because of gobelki tepe! 😊Soo fascinating I hope you do a video on the park there aswell and soany more fascinating sites. Did you go to the cave of Abraham?

[@dianetheone4059]

Always good, but this time awesome. Thank you.

[@TonksMoriarty]

Göbekli Tepe, site of the first furry convention.

[@Northestlight]

Finally. Let’s end the “cave paintings are random garbage” conception

[@NicholasHay1982]

I've never heard anyone suggest that cave paintings are random garbage.

[@whiteegretx]

No one thinks that it's random garbage

[@smack80]

I just googled "cave paintings are random garbage" and the only hit was your comment. Only you thought that.

[@thomaswillard6267]

Literally no one has ever thought such. It is graffiti, but graffiti has purpose

[@JackMyersPhotography]

Has anyone who matters ever said that. Perhaps you have a study or some findings?

[@francisfischer7620]

Fascinating!! 3rd time through!

[@morpheussieben]

super important stuff. were getting there

[@doncarlodivargas5497]

In 2024: as soon as someone accuse others of being "racist" i do not take them seriously anymore, to me this accusations tell me we have a intellectually lazy person not respecting others and only out to win an easy win

[@commentthreadarguer]

What happens when someone does or says something racist? Do we have to stay completely silent about it and pretend that racism no longer exists in any form?

[@doncarlodivargas5497]

@@commentthreadarguer - that is exactly the issue, there is actual victims, and there are actual racism, but when accusations are used only for manipulation it's a problem, do you really not understand?

[@commentthreadarguer]

@@doncarlodivargas5497 It seems you'll have to evaluate individual claims of racism on a case-by-case basis, then. It's what I do. Unfortunately, these days, when I hear people say that they blanket-dismiss everyone who makes accusations of racism, I have to assume they're either racists or racism-deniers until they prove otherwise, because they most often are. The reasonable people usually treat accusations of racism like any other accusations.

[@festina_lente7655]

"there is actual victims, and there are actual racism" Brilliantly said😂😂😂

[@patavinity1262]

Your assertions about these theories being 'racist' are simply nonsense. It's not unreasonable to at least hypothesize that religions grow more complex as societies grow more complex. There's quite a lot of evidence that this is the case in fact. Such a stupid mischaracterization of the idea.

[@doncarlodivargas5497]

I totally agree with you, it is obvious how some cultures are more developed than others, I can't even understand how this can be an issue, also, my impression is those so eager to use accusations about "racism" etc are super-racists themselves

[@drmantistobogganmd7595]

Literally made me stop watching the video when I heard that nonsense.

[@commentthreadarguer]

@@drmantistobogganmd7595 It's a shame you didn't watch the part where he presents the alternative stances of the scholars who continue to embrace the term "animism" under modified definitions.

[@commentthreadarguer]

The word "racist" is one small part of the varied arguments for and against the use of the term "animism", and if it derails your attention to the issue, the problem is yours. There is also a tremendous amount of evidence that religious belief and practice is approximately equally complex in every human society. If you know nothing about any non-monotheistic religions, of course, they're going to look simple to you, compared to the religious traditions you're intimately familiar with.

[@patavinity1262]

@@commentthreadarguer In what sense was I 'derailed'? What do you mean by that? The entire purpose of my comment was to point out that claiming the term 'animism', or the concept behind the term, is racist is a bad argument. One may make entirely separate criticisms of animism as an idea, which may be perfectly valid, but that does not mean the particular argument I criticized is a good one, and there's no reason why I shouldn't say so. What's your point exactly? You have no idea what religious traditions I am or am not familiar with, so don't be so presumptuous. I find your assertion that (for example) Christianity, or Islam, or Buddhism are equally as theologically complex as tribal animism laughable on its face. Of course a religious movement which has existed for centuries or millennia, with millions or billions of adherents, with thousands of texts discussing every point of theological doctrine which are in constant debate, which contain within themselves multiple different movements and forms of belief and worship - *of course* these are more complex than the religion of a small tribal group which isn't even literate, just as everything else about modern globalized societies are bigger and more complex than those of our prehistoric ancestors. If you want to argue otherwise, go ahead, I'm all ears.

[@jordanmainzinger5275]

Animal gathering famously depicted in the song 'Several Species of Small Ancient Animals Gathered Together in Göbekli Tepe and Grooving with a Hunter'

[@t.j.payeur5331]

And the wind cried back...

[@elvinc.brasov8480]

Tremendous video!

[@antagonizerr]

Archeology ALWAYS associates these things with religion. Why can't they just be art? Thousands of years from now, archeologists will find a flyer from a furry convention and say, "Oh, they were an animistic society, tho some of them believe in the Marvel gods. Although, we're not sure whether the king of the gods was Captain America or Iron Man". Honestly, I think Gobekli Tepe is a prehistoric movie theater where storytellers would use the statues to tell myths and legends as patrons listened on and each building told a different story or myth. Art, not religion.

[@ReligionForBreakfast]

I’d argue a specialized building for the public performance of a myth (e.g. something like Gilgamesh, the Ramayana, the Iliad, etc) counts as “religion.”

[@afaegfsgsdef]

The multiple buildings with benches remind me of baseball dugouts. Maybe the animals represent different teams or players in a sporting event or olympic style competition.

[@russellmillar7132]

Aren't a archaeologists a bunch of dummies? We know that there were many patrons of the arts back then, and they only commissioned art that depicts animals and guys with large penises. No religion there.

[@antagonizerr]

Who defines the content of the myth tho, us or the storyteller? There are more myths about nature than about deities that have more to do with moral or 'warnings' than any religious treatise. Mythical monsters serve as totems of "thar be dragons" while animals serve characters based on their traits. Monkeys, mischief...fox, clever...dog, loyal, etc. We've given them attributes like this since we first stood upright. Calling myths religion is liken to suggesting that Cineplex Odeon is a church. The Marvel universe is mythical, but only exist as stories....Barbie is mythical and in fact, we even have idols that could easily be confused with the Venus of Willendorf. Do we play with Surfer Barbie or do we worship her? @@ReligionForBreakfast

[@thomaswillard6267]

​@@afaegfsgsdef Let's compare FIFA to Abrahamic Religion Dietary requirements/Taboo ✅️✅️ Ritual Gatherings✅️✅️ Builds Massive Monuments✅️✅️ Latin American Fandom✅️✅️ Linked to Slavery✅️✅️ Causes Death in Mid East✅️✅️ Corrupt Leadership✅️✅️

[@donnmckee4973]

I always appreciate a well researched and sourced video on history. Its unfortunate that channels like the why files get more views on subjects like this by using sensational claims from people not even connected to the site in question. I've always found the truth to be more beautiful even if its "we don't fully understand yet and might not ever but here's our best educated guess that fits with the evidence". But some will always be looking for some "forbidden" "hidden from the public" ideas about history or science without researching for themselves. Interesting how that "hidden" information is out there and each time is more likely monetized than historically/scientifically scrutinized.

[@rhov-anion]

When taking Native American Anthropology, our professor kept warning us against jumping to conclusions based on iconography by saying, "In 5000, future humans might think we worshiped a mouse, while conspiracy theories may insist Star Wars is proof that ancient aliens built New York City."

[@carlopean5068]

I have a lot of thoughts on this but one feeling and that’s of sadness. There is so much that we don’t know about our ancestors and it would probably be wisdom worth remembering or at least entertaining stories if not theological truths. And there will probably be so many more generations of humans who will have discovered truths we’ll never know. And the whole time, we’ve been doing human things like picking up a stick we find, holding an elder’s hand, smiling at a baby…makes one think.

[@davidp204]

Hey longtime follower, love your videos! I’m Israeli so happened on first Jewish topic videos then the others and all great. Question came up in my tank in gaza, and can be a good video (I don’t find one from you). The history of tefilin. How did we get to wrapping prayer talismans on us? (If you’re not Jewish and never saw it I’m sure it looks nuts?)Traditions say Abraham wore them and they wore them all day then. Any videos I can watch about it?

[@billmanzke758]

Why no mention about the astronomical depictions on the pillars? There is at least one carving of a comet on a pillar there, opening the possibility that some of the other depictions represent constellations in the sky.

[@seanbeadles7421]

Because it’s unacademic nonsense invented by a chemist.

[@colinhay1666]

What's the current evidence that leads to the statement that Gobekli Tepe probably had a roof? I would imagine that the stars were probably rather important to ancient peoples.

[@socialswine3656]

idk i assume warmth and shelter were also pretty important

[@alwilliams5177]

Been jonesen hard for some fresh RFB. Thanks Doc. 😎

[@icollectstories5702]

It looked a bit like shared meeting rooms for the local Lions or Elks Clubs, but it sounds more like a Museum of Dangerous Creatures, bring the kids! The Turkish Breakfast looks great, but the multitude of sauces intimidates me. Did no one pay homage to Plants? Or was that in the Women's Tent down the way?

[@ianhyde2761]

I think there may be a couple of alternate explanations for why each particular structure seems associated with a particular animal (besides being family, clan, or tribal totems/symbols): 1) Each structure may be part of a progressive ritual. I.e. at a festival or gathering, perhaps participants progress from one lodge to the next as they travel through a ritual journey. 2) Or, perhaps each shelter is associated with a particular time frame (whether a month, or season, or year) when a festival/ritual takes place and the animal assoviated with the space is also emblematic of the season. I'd be interested to find out of these theories (or others) have been discussed by anthropologists; and whether there is evidence in favor - or against - these possible explanations.

[@apassagebeyond4403]

Animals, and all other life do have spirit. Hinduism says this as well. Everything is conscious to varying degrees.

[@purpleplanter68]

Modern beliefs and shamans say corporations are people. I like your explanation of animism and it’s historical context.

[@teehee4096]

How dare you compare corporations to shamanic spirits 😂

[@thomaswillard6267]

​@@teehee4096Ikr, they are clearly egregors