Gaijin Really Does Hate France

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I'm a pretty big fan of French armored fighting vehicles. The French tank tech tree in War Thunder is one of my favorites, so I was excited to see that Gaijin were adding the ELC Bis light tank destroyer. A lot of other people were excited for it too, but the ELC became completely overshadowed by additions like the A-10 and PUMA IFV. As much as I tried to like the ELC, it is overall pretty painful to play.
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#warthunder​​​​​​​​​​​​ #tanks​​​​​​​​​​​​ #tankhistory

[@Thunderbolt_1000_Siren]

Spook sounds so dead on the inside like a true War Thunder player.

[@Ezra411st]

Me a war thunder player that's not dead inside yet

[@bananabatsy3708]

@@Ezra411st you are not playing it right.

[@TheMinman808]

@@Ezra411st liar

[@koki956]

@@Ezra411st how painful it is to make you say this

[@treekid7455]

@@Ezra411st you either havent played it alot or havent played it at all

[@ZonaAsier]

This is classified as a TD, when it was historically a LT. Meanwhile the Hellcat is classified as a LT, when historically it’s a TD. Why am I not surprised that Gaijin doesn’t give a rats ass about history? An example, the turret should turn a full 360 if the vehicle is stopped, but limited to the 40 while moving.

[@coh2conscript851]

Gaijin on that perc pr

[@SovietUnion_]

Because I suppose its kinda hard to program when one thing enters 2 modes when in motion and when not, cause it will actually be a nightmare to face your turret forward first and ONLY THEN allowed to move Edit: ok, people didnt understand me. We do indeed have atgm carriers that do that, however, THIS tank, doesnt work like that, since if Gaijin follows tank functioality properly, then they'd have to make the tank face the turret forward first, and then allow the tank to move, when its not in its frontal 40 degrees, it wouldnt move, since the gunner is the driver. seems like a nightmare to me

[@kacsan1]

@@SovietUnion_ they already did that for atgm carriers tho

[@tikityler1386]

@@SovietUnion_ They already have that for the ability to fire ATGM from Bradley's and other vehicles.

[@igorortega6494]

they only care about history if it means taking out the panther II and the coelian from germany lmao

[@joeses4162]

Ironic about how almost nobody even cared about the puma until it became clear that it was a broken vehicle.

[@Lxcx311]

Beside the german community. We said that we want it for quite a while and properly implemented it wouldn't even be broken. But gaijin ofc does gaijin stuff :)

[@hueylong7989]

Its less broken but mire of a min maxed speed build of the M18

[@JackTheNoober]

Not as broken as M18 or the french clown car EBR. Puma is fast and small but has rather lackluster gun. Well, for it's current rating the gun is OK but that's about it. EBR and M18 can easily take out tigers and panthers. With Puma you can't do jack shit against any higher rating vehicles unless you can get them from behind. In some cases it can't even pen opponents side from greater than 100m range.

[@heliogonzalezsanchez8227]

@@JackTheNoober M18 isn't broken at all what are you talking about? its just a fast vehicle with decent gun, but it has nothing special, and 2 out of the 3 EBR's are just good, the only one that is better is the 1954 one

[@cosmicdistortion4350]

@@heliogonzalezsanchez8227 ebr's are just good? are you joking? lol

[@Jilve69]

France is that one family member that you forget to invite to the family gathering but then you feel bad and give something for compensation

[@sliverbullet7973]

Ouch

[@riccardomariani9648]

and Italy is the one family member that is ignored by half the family and hated by the other half (for unknown reasons), and the only time he gets invited is to be made fun of or bullied because is doing better than the favorite child once (sagittario 2, top-tier lineup, helis...)

[@snwilliam6886]

@@riccardomariani9648 damn these statements hit me hard 💀

[@arya31ful]

Not because you dislike them, but because you just forgot they're even existed.

[@Jilve69]

@@riccardomariani9648 excactly

[@dirtydantv8160]

As a French player I really question the lack of New tanks or planes and it’s really hard trying to make a stable lineup while not trying to get up tier and honestly it’s kinda annoying at different times, wish we could get a bit more recognition and newer tanks

[@Tigershark_3082]

I just hope France gets a good top tier.

[@Usmodlover]

Yeah playing France is basically having to unlock 3 vehicles before you can use any of your new ones because they’re all a full battle rating higher than what you have now and playing it you’d get curb stomped, so instead you have the pain of getting to parts and FPE on like 3 things at once

[@juioploski4063]

You guys get something new every patch tf are you saying

[@heliogonzalezsanchez8227]

@@Tigershark_3082 like if the leclerc wasn't good, sure, the new XXI is almost identical to the other 2, but they aren't bad

[@pipopoikapelaa5468]

@@juioploski4063 No, we don't. Even if we get, it's so fucking small br change that it dosn't help line ups

[@hungryhedgehog4201]

Soviet Paratrooper Light support vehicle: Gets spotting French Light support vehicle: Doesn't get spotting Alright. Also the ELC should be able to fully traverse the turret while stationary.

[@kocayrklibirinsan3056]

please answer: but what happening if they move when it already turned its turret?

[@marcogenovesi8570]

A bunch of TDs like hellcat and scorpion: also get spotting Because Reasons

[@-149onreyna3]

@@kocayrklibirinsan3056 cant move until the turret is back into the good angle range

[@Snoodsfoods7454]

@@kocayrklibirinsan3056 turet moves back like on M901

[@Kasumi_Tashi]

@@Snoodsfoods7454 nope, it literally can't move at all until the turret is in the fontral 40°

[@SleepySkull1]

Here's multiple things I found this week about a few French tanks. The ELC Bis is missing it's rangerfinder, It couldn't turn the turret AT ALL when on the move and had to keep the turret facing foward so the gunner could use the controls in the hull. It was never limited in traverse and seems to be a thing WarGaming added themselves. The hell is that suspension on the ELC??? The BatChat 25t could reload in 4 seconds for 12 shots then had 4 shots with 6 seconds between shots. This was bug reported and gaijin said, I shit you not, "reload rate is a balancing factor, we don't believe it needs it" Bruh, you can't say you guys are aiming for realism then just say "Hur dur this *autoloader* reloads slower because we say so" Meanwhile, Russia got the Object 906 with 4.3 seconds reload with good penetration for the APHE along with HEAT and is stabilized at 7.7. The AMX ACRA is missing it's stabilizer. The ARL-44 (Both version) is missing a loader assist/autoloader. Funny thing is the ARL-44 ACL-1 got the same gun as the Sherman, with an loader assist and yet reloads SLOWER. ?? The AMX-50 Surblindé/Surbaissé apparently had stabilizer. That one is kinda cool. The AMX M4 should also reload in 4 Seconds. The AMX-30 DCA is using british Brass ammo APDS that can ONLY be used on the Warrior IFV for some reason. The one it should have got more muzzle velocity. The AMX-13 should not be at 6.7, Maybe even add that APDS that was tested. I mean there's a ton of Light tanks with experimental ammo in every tech tree so why the french are stuck with a 170 mm(at 500 meters) pen gun? Because 5 second reload? I would gladly take 1 second longer to reload to get some ammo that can actually pen. Also, I never managed to go above 40km/h in the bloody thing. The AMX-50 100mm and 120mm both had APCR. The Lorraine 155 is using the wrong engine. The AMX-50's commander could take over the gunner's control. The AMX-50 is missing it's smoke launcher. The AMX-50 should have a 1000 HP engine The AMX-50 Had two reverse gear. All of that got bug reported and/or are in the forum. Some of the reports got approved and are never implemented, or even deleted from the forums without notice.

[@LeGrandSarrazin]

Tell me about it…..

[@LeGrandSarrazin]

I will add though, AMX-30 could not fire on the move. That is a myth, which has been confirmed by a couple AMX-30 tankers we know. Also the ACRA should also be modeled as a laser-beam-riding atgm, while currently it is saclos. This makes it so ACRA can be defeated by ircm, which is obv not historical. Also France did not use APCR, they used APDS, such as the 120mm APDS with a 75mm core, mentioned for Auto-Canon de 120, aka Foch, in a technical spec sheet. France also tested 75mm (with a 47mm core), 100mm, and 105mm APDS, which was reportedly superior in performance than Obus G, but was covered up because they wanted to push Obus G to market, as it was unique and a source of technical pride at the time. More or less everything else is correct

[@SleepySkull1]

@@LeGrandSarrazin Oh hey, If it ain't the Chad French Tank Enjoyer in the WT forums. Are you sure the 100mm and 120mm fired APDS and not APCR? In 'Tome 9 Tauzin ArtillerieBAT' they state the guns fired HVAP and not APDS. While the AMX-13, two lines over, says 'APDS'. *Was the ACRA stabilizer ever bug reported? I have a book that says it does have one for the Beam and the Gun. I can't be bothered to make a bug report anymore with the way gaijin handles french tanks. *Edit: It was bug reported in January 2021.

[@LeGrandSarrazin]

@@SleepySkull1 Fairly certain, at least the turret spec sheets say obus sous-calibré. And other docs all show work on APDS by France post-war, not APCR. But, it's an iffy subject we're still gathering documentation for. And yes, we reported the stab for ACRA, and they wouldn't accept COMHART as a source, because.... idk you tell me... Story of my life. But, more sources are always helpful.

[@SleepySkull1]

@@LeGrandSarrazin Swedish testing document for the AMX-50 says it should have a 1000 HP engine and that the commander could control the gun. another source : Direction des Etudes et Fabrications d'Armement

[@calvin7981]

I find it truly remarkable how gaijin has managed to make it impossible to have a lineup consisting of more than three vehicles in France.

[@collander7766]

I love how the top tier lineup is literally 3 identical MBTs

[@1999Almaz]

@@collander7766 And how 8.7-10.7 is either one tank or nothing at all. Oh and yeah - there's no french IFVs in the game. IIRC everyone else have at least one?

[@collander7766]

@@1999Almaz yeah, that’s what France lacks the most: an IFV. It’s literally only MBTs, so annoying. Which is funny because France creates more light vehicles than tanks, they’re practically famous for that

[@喬海洋]

@@1999Almaz china doesn't have an if yet or Helis but that's probably gonna change starting next update

[@1999Almaz]

@@喬海洋 China at least have copy of BMP-1 and good light vehicles with stabs (PTL02, WMA301 and ZLT11), that's a lot more than France now have. And yeah, Chinese helis coming soon, that's for sure

[@bilalsadiq1450]

Wait a sec, the M18 can scout targets but the ELC AMX can't?

[@strategicperson95]

So can the M56, and that is a TD

[@cookiecracker2]

@@strategicperson95 that is astronomical amounts of dumb.

[@kladoslav]

@@strategicperson95 also the ASU-57 or ASU-85, also being TDs. I don't get why this thing can't get spotting ability...

[@SpiritOfMontgomery]

Nor can the Daimler AC, which is literally a scout car… I have an axe to grind about that lmao

[@kladoslav]

@@SpiritOfMontgomery I mean it's because it's tier I, but I get your point

[@Titan_TM]

This was my most played LT in WOT, Tier V little meme machine that took some understanding of it's quirks to be good at. But it rewarded patient play and good scouting with a hard hitting gun and huge camo rating for it's tier. Not entirely sure why Gajin pulled a Wargaming by fucking up a good tank lmao.

[@Thunderbolt_1000_Siren]

Then WG nerfed it to hell

[@rouymalic4463]

I was old enough when I remember on how good that tank was

[@Titan_TM]

@@Thunderbolt_1000_Siren exactly, Gajin pulled a wargaming from the start lmao.

[@GregorianMG]

The tank was nerfed. Its firepower and mobility suffer, its DPM with top gun is very bad though the alpha is good. It can't zoom across battlefield well, but still enough to do its job at passive scouting.

[@adityabora9131]

Memeing on Rhm B Waffentragers with HE as a tier 5 LT was cathartic af

[@codyhuinker1945]

apparently irl the ELC bis could turn its turret 360 degrees but only when stopped

[@pizza_parker9689]

Yes he sorta said that in the video.

[@CrystalMethEnjoyer]

Gaijin outright said it can but they won’t be including the feature because of engine work iirc

[@SatelliteYL]

1:28 I know it was annoying that someone flipped you but I love that multiple people stayed behind to help make sure you were alright lol. Wholesome

[@321blastof1]

yeah actually a super wholesome moment haha

[@spartan-ml7nk]

France: make the Engin Léger de Combat (light combat vehicle) Gaijin: yeah it s a tank destroyer.

[@RoadRunnerdn]

Because that's what it was. As you said, it was called Engin Leger de Combat, not Char Leger de Combat. It was not a light tank.

[@alphawolf6214]

@@RoadRunnerdn as said a loooot of times higher in the comments, the ELC was historically a "light recon tank" that can be dropped by helis and such, so yeh it's definitly a light tank historically speaking but hey that's Gaijin why would they even bother about it

[@matthiuskoenig3378]

@@alphawolf6214 false The objective was to produce a cheap, simple and mobile vehicle with sufficient firepower to knock out vehicles such as the Soviet IS-3 and IS-4 heavy tanks. air transportability was a factor in the mobility of the vehicle (ie they wanted good strategic and tactical mobility). not a single source that i have found says it is for reconaissance, they only say its for anti-tank defense.

[@ravenouself4181]

@@matthiuskoenig3378 Technically, ELC was a competition to design a light air-transportable combat vehicle, not a cheap vehicle, but simple and mobile non the less. The one in the game is the ELC AMX and it was a light tank, the ELC EVEN had multiple versions including a tank destroyer [also an AA and a missile launcher versions]. The ELC was meant to be a "rapid response" vehicle and to be deployed ahead of the main force, in a way, it was to be a "passive reconnaissance vehicle". But, You are correct - it's primary function was to hit hard against enemy heavily armored vehicles and enemy infantry.

[@thatweirdguyfromtheinterne9002]

I like live commentary gameplay it's like a breath of fresh air and they're also longer vids then the usual and I appreciate that. keep it up!

[@jonathanperry8331]

The real elc bis was designed to be small and light enough to be slung under a small helicopter and dropped where needed. I think only two were made one of them still in a museum

[@justasimplegamer129]

I thought only the 90 mm model was the only thing that existed when i red about it.

[@matthiuskoenig3378]

@@justasimplegamer129 what are you talking about? the AMX ELC bis was only ever planned to have a 90mm. you are either thinking about the orginal 2 AMX ELC (with 4 120mm and 6 105mm respectfully) which were just paper [unlike their EVEN counterparts], but its not an AMX ELC *bis* variant. there was atleast AMX ELCs built before the AMX ELC bis, with 3 distinct versions that were either the same vehicle modified or multiple prototypes (trialed 1955). the AMX ELC bis came out 2 years after these were trialed (1957). (edit: there is also a 1954 version of the AMX ELC claimed to have the engine in the rear, but its unclear if it was built or not)

[@ravenouself4181]

There are two ELC's, the ELC AMX [which was a light tank and is in WT] and ELC EVEN, which had multiple versions [AA, recoilless rifles and missile launcher]. Only one ELC AMX [also called ELC Bis to distinguish it from the turret test-beds] was ever made and survives to this day and is in a museum, there were previous tests done to design the turret but those were on a different chassis and only served to design the turret. At least 2 ELC EVEN survive, the AA and the 90 mm recoilless rifle versions], also in a museum.

[@MJRSoap]

You're only now realizing Gaijin just hates France and that it's not 'the algorithm' being bad?? Except for anything after the B2 Brenus (32. 40, Leclercs), I swear Gaijin has had all these vehicles modeled for years and just won't add anything they didn't plan on adding originally otherwise. Unlike Japan and Italy who really don't have much that can be added to the ground trees anymore, France has loads of vehicles left that were actually produced. Even if they're export models it hasn't stopped them from giving them to other nations (cough cough Tam 2IP). If the AMX-32 had been in game from the start, France never would have even gotten the AMX-30 Super. Before the Super got added, France had no stabilized top tier. That alone should show you how much they hate France, nevermind the broken state every top tier French Jet has entered the game in. We got told the Mirage 3C was being delayed because they couldn't get the Delta Wing modeled properly. That update? J35D, a delta wing plane that still performs better than the 3C today. 3E gets added and it's just a heavier 3C with some flares. But now it's top tier despite being almost impossible to pull over 10G in it, even in full real controls. Hell, the Elevator controls lock up at 650, on a delta wing, the roll controls don't lock up till 950. They're the SAME CONTROL SURFACE. The damn thing can't even hit it's listed top speed, with or without the rocket motor, it tops out at 1.56. Mirage F1? Sure it's had tweaks and fixes since it got added, but Gaijin won't let us see their source, and we can't supply any they'll accept. Why? Because all FRENCH documents are classified till the end of 2023 regarding the F1C. They won't accept the S. African doucments for the same plane either. The "New" missle? The Super 530? Literally was a copy pasted R530 for 4 days, didn't even have the speed difference and IT STILL has the wrong lock range, making it out ranged by any SARH missile it faces. Let's not forget how it's took gaijin over 2 years to add BOMB LOADS to the French F-100D. Or the Etendard IVM only now getting it's CCIP, it's still missing it's radar. How about the MB 157? That plane with just 2 Hispano 404s? Yeah it's been missing 4 .303 MG's since it got added. The MD 450's? They're still missing their wing tanks, we're not even sure if they have them modeled in their FM, the icon on the scoreboard includes them but we don't have the fuel capacity for the wing tanks. How about the missing payloads on the 2 VB-10s? You know they're actually the same plane? They should both have 6 50 cals and just not have them if they're carrying bombs or rockets. Why is the one with 6 M2's .7 BR higher and triple the repair? The thing get's out climbed and outran by some 3.3 fighters and even some bombers at 4.7! Ground vehicles? The ACRA is still classed as a medium tank for some fucking reason despite any other pure ATGM carrier being a TD. You can't practically take it with the B2 and BRENUS because your third spawn will have a jacked up spawn cost. The AMX-13 keeps climbing in BR for some god forsaken reason while retaining it's high repair making it unplayable with premium time. The AMX-13 FL.11, the one with the dinky little 75, still has the wrong reload rate AFTER gaijin changed it and linked the player report. EBR's are still buggy and have terrible traction, also deflating steel tires. ROLAND is still missing it's track radar, and it took YEARS for them to silently add radar retraction to the DCA 30 and Roland, literally no patch note for that. The AMX-10 RC has stabilized COMMANDER optics for some god forsaken reason. Yes I know that's real but I still can't slave the gun to the commander optics, no it doesn't making scouting easier it actually makes it harder. Something NOT exclusively a French armor issue, AMX-30 Brenus ERA has no kinetic protection. Janes Armor says it's equivalent to about 100mm of RHA, the M60 RISE also is missing this kinetic protection too. Russian ERA? Always has kinetic protection. Also the French Heli Tree, it's a joke. The brick of a helicopter that is the H-34, still with ahistorical loadouts, is the starter heli, while Germany starts with an actual French Heli that's better than the one you have to research in the French TT. The Alouette 3 has NO GUNS, just 4 AS.11's, you have to get past this shit to get the first Gazelle. Oh you bought the HAP? It's terrible, HAD? Bad too, just get's Hellfires. Literally the worst end of tech tree heli, before someone says "BUT THE UHT DOESN'T HAVE A GUN", the gun on the HAD and HAP still can't hit anything past 400m. Take the HAP into test drive and fire at the SAM from the heli pad. You will hit MAYBE 5 shells. On what is supposed to be an incredibly accurate cannon.

[@collander7766]

lets not forget that the PARS 3 missile was co-developed by France, and yet is only present on the *German version* of the Tiger UHT, *a French helicopter* Super 530Fs are literally the bane of my existence. I *reaaaally* want them to work well, but they just disappoint. Typical French. Literally a waste of a 2 missile and an extra 400 kg Oh and the Roland's tracking radar works fine wdym

[@MJRSoap]

@@collander7766 The Super 530 goes for Chaff OUTSIDE it's seeker window, that's the biggest fucking issue it faces and Gaijin refuse to introduce the range limiting circuit, ignores returns too far from it's existing lock, present on the seeker saying 'no documents submitted specify the 530F" despite both the D and F using the same passive radar seeker head. Currently the 530F acts like chaff gives such a high radar return it would kill a city's electrical grid from the strength it puts out. The American and German Rolands both have the Thomson-CSF Domino 30 radar modeled, the French one is using a copy pasted ADATS optics as the tracker, which is actually treated as a radar in ACM mode, not even an optical tracker. It's why locking targets in it is such a pain and only works in gunner sight.

[@collander7766]

@@MJRSoap the D and F are supposed to be different iirc, it’s inverse-monopulse like the Skyflash. And occasionally it tracks right thru chaff with no issue whatsoever, so random. IRL even the regular R530 had good countermeasure resistance though The ADATS tracking IRST has actually been fixed. Either way it still worked properly back then, it was just easier for Gaijin to make every IRST the copy-paste ADATS one. It’s not a radar, it’s all optical and gives off no RWR

[@ggwp1367]

You forgot to add that leclers dont have f2 roinds in game with 600+mm pen. French ww2 120mmgun has decresed values of pen of its gun. In historical tests this gun was able to pen is3 in front from 1000m. Real reload time for Amxfoch was 5-6 s. I can continue but its pointless. Vive la germany and russia - Gaijin

[@collander7766]

@@ggwp1367 it makes you wonder… when *are* they going to add OFL 120 F2??? The Leclerc SXXI is the most modern Leclerc. They either have to retroactively add the better shell to the SXXI or just not add it ):

[@burningman1408]

I remember grinding this thing out and just being sad. It’d be a great scouting tank due to its low profile, but they made it mid. The HEAT is as you say, snags on every piece of geometry, even concealment sometimes. Just disappointed.

[@wifi_soldier5076]

they French don't even get their own HEATFS shells. (they produced their own different version that currently isn't in the game) but Gaijin is to lazy to add it.

[@hiroaoki4763]

People makes memes about hating the french Gaijin apparently taken it seriously

[@Karpiu_lel]

So M18 is a light tank but this thing is a tank destroyer???

[@blaster112]

I'm guessing they did that because of its limited traverse. That said, they should have given it scouting at the very least, like the M56.

[@WamuroRiXi08]

Tbh , this being an airdropped support tank , it really should get it because other airdropped ones , even ASU-85 got one , no matter what reason , it seems unfair for ELC to not have it really. The tank barely has any good functionality

[@mammothmk3355]

Wait what? *That thing is a Tank Destroyer?* In World of Tanks it's a light tank. Pretty dope I would say. XD

[@theyalesubrailfan1849]

That thing was awesome :D easily one of my favourite tier V’s

[@nesyboi9421]

That's because irl it was a light tank

[@RoadRunnerdn]

@@nesyboi9421 It wasn't. It was a TD.

[@Hans_Panzerschreck]

@@RoadRunnerdn Its a light tank build to be air dropped. ELC literally mean "light combat vehicle" or "Engin Léger de Combat" in french.

[@RoadRunnerdn]

​@@Hans_Panzerschreck Yes. Light combat vehicle... not light tank... intended to engage tanks and support infantry. You do realise that TD's can also be considered light vehicles...

[@Avionicx]

Was I the only person who played France who *really* didn't want this thing? Think about it, it's near useless, fills no gap, and is overall just a worse AML-90 that now sits in the wat of interesting stuff, like the AMX-10RC. If Gaijin wanted to add something for France, why not the EBRC Jaguar to counter the Puma? 40mm auto cannon and up to 4 MMP ATGMs (that can be guided). It's weaker than the Puma but also quite fast, and can easily slot in at 9.0, giving France an actual line up in the 9.0 range because they kind of don't have one. Or how about my personal favorite French armored car, the ERC-90 Sagaie, with a much more improved 90mm from the AML-90 that can fire APFSDS. These things are pretty synonymous with the French Army in numerous engagements in Africa and Desert Storm. But no, we really needed another 6.7 French tank that's literally pointless and a Mirage F1 that they don't even bother to fix. Thanks Gaijin.

[@wifi_soldier5076]

and the amx-c2, amx-32 (105) and the Spanish upgraded amx-eb. all of these have stabilizer and thermals.

[@collander7766]

thank you for precisely wording how I feel about this thing. Literally why the hell would you want this when the AML-90 is faster, can turn its turret, and can scout? Oh that's right, you wouldn't. Gaijin loves giving France this type of garbage instead of vehicles that would actually make people want to grind the tree. There's a version of the AMX-10RC with the CV90105 stabilized TML turret (designed by France). As you mentioned, the ERC-90 Sagaie would be awesome, and could've come into the game years ago. There's also a version of the MARS15 with the same TML turret. *But that's absolutely ridiculous.. how dare you give French things to France!* And yeah, the Mirage F1C is pain. God I can't get over how terribly modeled the FM as well as the Super 530Fs are. Also, the HUD is completely unrealistic, it looks like a toddler drew it. The cannons CCIP from inside the cockpit is literally a single dot on the HUD.

[@jeandelacroix6726]

@@collander7766 2 versions of 10RC TML. With and without thermals

[@jeandelacroix6726]

ERC 90 would be useless it has no stab. Unless you want the 1983 ERC Sagaie I upgraded with TTB190 or the 1985 ERC II with same turret (and thermals this time)

[@haruspice9921]

No , you weren't , I feel like only WOT crowd wanted that thing and even then , I barely saw that when I spaded it.

[@nickgelbrecht4367]

I really enjoy those more "casual" type of videos with funny and random moments

[@ravenouself4181]

Historical documents: This vehicle is [insert class here] Gaijin: I can't read.

[@matthiuskoenig3378]

what are you on about, the historical documents say this vehicle was a tank destroyer

[@lector-dogmatixsicarii1537]

Post two photoshopped documents that look rare and hard to access in Cyrillic scribbles. Then label it as a Soviet design. Bonus points if you know people who work with it that can lie. Easy way to get fixes.

[@ravenouself4181]

@@matthiuskoenig3378 Do I need to remind You that the M18 is labeled as a Light Tank when it was a Tank Destroyer? Edit: Also, there were multiple versions of the ELC EVEN platform, a shame WT didn't add them. There was an AA version [30 mm], a multitude of recoilless rifle versions with varying sizes of the rifles [75, 90 and 120 mm], and a missile launcher version [two different types of missiles]. Tbh, all things that France needs in WT. But the version that WT has is the light tank version ELC AMX. If You are confused, ELC was a project to design an air-deployable lightly armored and heavily armed vehicle. ELC AMX and ELC EVEN were competing bids, in the end the whole ELC project was scrapped, but the prototypes survived and can be seen in the Saumur Tank Museum.

[@ravenouself4181]

@@lector-dogmatixsicarii1537 Да

[@luvillaino8571]

I was 15,000 rp from unlocking the Foch then the patch came and I was forced to settle for another absurb grind for this little shit instead. Thank you Gaijin... Thank you

[@GLitchesHaxandBadAudio]

Light tank classified as a Tank Destroyer, but also doesn’t get the caveat of other light TDs that get scouting and artillery. And it’s also about 2 tons too heavy.

[@georgeradu6759]

" The idea behind the creation of the engin léger de combat (french for «light combat vehicle») was to install powerful anti-tank weapons on a light but fully armored tankette and thus create a light tank destroyer that was mobile, inconspicuous, capable of hitting and destroying all types of enemy tanks at a distance of about 1 500 meters." End quote So basically it was designed as a tank destroyer in mind. It just happened to be a tank itself... And light...

[@Predator20357]

I guess in Gaijin logic “Big pen means it balances everything else out!”

[@cookiecracker2]

they don't even play their own game. They think it's super easy to grind stuff because they only look at statistics and go "wowe players got the new vehicle on day 1, must not be hard enough to grind"

[@Predator20357]

@@cookiecracker2 Still trying to get the M48, it’s also more cost effective to play early tiers so that I don’t lose so much money playing the actual tier because repair costs are a scourge to me loving this game

[@Maxine1228]

@@cookiecracker2 They know the grind is tough and make it like that to milk money, having trouble getting that new tank, pay ge and have it now, don't want to grind for a dart shot at top tier, pay ge and get it, want to get to top tier faster, pay money to get a premium and premium time, and it won't change until wallet whales stop paying, but that will never happen. And also I did the math and to buy from the mig 15 to mig 23mld, ITS 370$ F***ING DOLLARS, I wanted to see just how much, cus if it was like only a bit like 30 I would but nope. I respect the devs who actually care about the game but it's sad seeing how greedy they are and the only reason this game isn't my will to like while playing it (dead) is there is no alternative. Like there's WOT and other tank games, they are either real arcadey or just way too realistic, not to mention aircraft and also cas in grb but war thunder is just a good mix between arcade and realistic. But when a game similar comes out it will be war thunder's doom.

[@Maxine1228]

@@Predator20357 i assume the american one, and if so, dont waste your time on it and skip it

[@Predator20357]

@@Maxine1228 Wish I knew that so I didn’t waste months on it, I don’t play WT that often (don’t have to look far for the reasons) so every time I play it, I am not skilled enough to have a consistent amount of good kills

[@aunt_jemima_9398]

Why can't it get the spotting ability like the M56?

[@blankblank8424]

Because it’s classified as a tank destroyer rather then a light tank

[@dakotahondalock5621]

@@blankblank8424 that does the opposite of answer the question

[@AbcdEf-lz6oe]

@@blankblank8424 The M56 is a tank destroyer with scouting.

[@azzarnthelizard]

@@AbcdEf-lz6oe and this is supposed to be a light tank not a TD but gaijin work in weird ways

[@collander7766]

because it's French. Read the video title

[@danielmostert993]

Snails are part of French cuisine. That is why Gaijin fears and hates them. GG

[@sachafriderich3063]

:)

[@theeverydaythinker6310]

Glad you point out how scummy it is to use bush decals. It always felt very pay to with especially on heavily wooded maps. Its especially scummy when a heavy tank does it to obscure their weak spots making hitting them a guessing game

[@trossk]

Bushes are awesome.

[@Molotovyeen]

Sherman's with foliage camo blocking their view/machinegun ports have been tormenting me in every single game for months

[@AllMightyKingBowser]

Bushes are pay to win garbage. I had a game where a T14 had all its front profile covered in them. I was VERY lucky I hit the turret front weakspot before it shot my Tiger's barrel (he was hiding behing a dead tank so I couldnt shoot the hull). The funny part is that the apparently the T14 player got pissed that I could pen through all his fucking forest that he rage quit xD Bush abusers are amusing and disgusting at the same time.

[@Gary_The_Metro]

@@Molotovyeen Jagdpanthers with their machinegunports covered up always make me chuckle, because I'll just shoot them in the machine gun port anyway

[@michieldebont4317]

@@AllMightyKingBowser the t14 turret weakspot is just the majority of the turret, if that's hard to deal with you might want to practice a bit more with a friend who has it. besides that, bushers are indeed hella scummy

[@_gungrave_6802]

Its funny how enjoyable this tank is in World of Tanks but its dog shit in War Thunder. If they would get rid of that suspension issue and reclassify it as an LT solely for arcade mode then it would be a great tank.

[@WamuroRiXi08]

Tbh , it's not gonna do any better. It dies from HMGs that is very common on its BR and also the damage is awful for spacey tanks that I intentionally uptier it to fight MBTs like how I do with PTs

[@davideneco]

oui In reality the ELC AMX turret can turn all around ... when the tank is stopped Gaijing just copy past WOT

[@Angrynood]

literally. so much for touting themselves as a realistic tank combat game. honestly, I'm going back to WoT for a bit so I don't have to deal with CAS

[@ommsterlitz1805]

I never understood why Gaijin even added France in the first place if they make it to be such a nerfed garbage tree full of bugged vehicles that they never put any effort into.

[@cameronporter5137]

Because when WT entered the Cold War, people wanted the 3rd largest Arms exporter in the world post WW2 with some of the most iconic aircraft and unique tanks to be playable. Obviously Gaijin doesn't think France is any of that, which is sadly why we are here

[@ommsterlitz1805]

@@cameronporter5137 They know all of that, but probably one of Gaijin leading team employee had bad experience in France so they purposely make it awful to play and make only premiums vehicles usable, i can only see it like that

[@cameronporter5137]

@@ommsterlitz1805 Pretty much

[@alphawolf1786]

@@ommsterlitz1805 looks like that as one of the devs for gaijin hate China and it got to the point where the community of voted to get him fired

[@Just_Adrian_]

Watch a man desperately hold on to his illusions of gaijin liking the french even a little bit

[@TheAmazingCowpig]

As another person inflicted with the Curse of McCollum, my tendency to gravitate towards French hardware is something War Thunder helped grow in me, and then helped grow my increasing ire towards Gaijin. Because holy shit, it really is undeniable at this point that Gaijin has something against France. I've wanted the WoT meme machine in WT for a while, and... we're stuck another "eh" experience.

[@justusbladetooth]

Between the issues with the game adding up like twisted jenga, and the fact that France in WT gets treated like the prison bitch. It's not worth bothering, they clearly don't care and don't plan to ever give a care. Why fix the French vics when they can add 873,425.2 more Russian vehicles to top tier they clearly don't damn well need. Clearly that Russian top tier dollar is worth the paltry sum from the French mains.

[@xray235]

"This is not a tank for driving, this is a tank for laying down and avoiding." Monty Python (probably).

[@alexanderrodriguez3554]

Why vehicles like the M50 and M56 (which Gaijin labels as TD’s) get spotting and the ELC (which is labeled as a TD but is actually and LT) is beyond me. They are all even meant for paratroopers and are all around the same br which makes this fact even worse

[@matthiuskoenig3378]

the ELC bis is not a light tank, it was a project for cheap tank destroyers for the infantry.

[@ancientwarrior3482]

@@matthiuskoenig3378 It was meant to be a light recon vehicle that could have been air dropped

[@Electronick7714]

So you can scout with hellcat and scorpion, TDs, but not the ELC which was, if I recall, designed to be an air droppable recon light tank? Wtf is wrong with gaijin?

[@cookiecracker2]

everything.

[@Maxine1228]

@@cookiecracker2 Yes

[@Electronick7714]

@@cookiecracker2 got that right. Haven't played in a while but I keep hearing it gets worse and worse

[@marcogenovesi8570]

TOO MUCH vodka

[@gasupplisson]

Elc standing for engins leger de combat, or light fighting vehicule in Shakespeare language

[@justasimplegamer129]

The only pro on the ELC by standards is its small size for sneaky beaky plays. Punchy 320 heatfs is better than a regular 90 ap round but works like an APCR (small damage unless pointed right) Still a fun thing to play with when the enemy is oblivious about its existence.

[@WamuroRiXi08]

If only ELC is resilient against HMGs , I think it would be a lot more usable and Fun. Yet, it's cheek isn't and it really hurts even when you can sneak well Since the HEATFS really doesn't have reliable damage. The ammo rack doesn't always explode. The gun handling is poor - Wobbly as hell. There's so many times that the enemy got driver gunner killed , but there would be the commander to just HMG me to death at almost any given range and it's quite frustrating.

[@Just_Adrian_]

6:23 his voice is like the definition of defeat, aka the war thunder experience

[@automobiili_xd6236]

I chuckled when the 2S3M absorbed your shot, that thing is criminally survivable for what it is.

[@collander7766]

yeah, I swear that thing never dies. Same with the Object 120; they have about the same crew and armor profile. It's damn ridiculous if you ask me.

[@automobiili_xd6236]

@@collander7766 Its most likely because both of them are so damn roomy, but still its annoying that the highly sensitive propellant irl barely even gets damaged from shrapnel if it didn't directly impact the ammo. I swear to god I tank more shots in that thing than in any heavy tank. 💀

[@collander7766]

@@automobiili_xd6236 yeah there's literally massive ammunition storages everywhere and they never go off. On top of that, it's super lightly armored and seems to never overpressure

[@nathanhammond2277]

Watching this a bit over a year later it’s so cool to see how much spookie-bear has come along , he’s the same guy but he just gives off so much more confidence in his personality. Love the vids bro hope you’re health improves.

[@SoraKiami]

I've been watching the other gaijin hates france video every once in a while and its very nice to see a new one! No matter what gaijin does to it, itll always be the most fun tech tree for me.

[@thanos9820]

this thing should be a light tank, just like in wot.

[@Frozander]

The repair costs for french tanks are a war crime. Why the hell Surbiase is over 13k SL to repair? It has no armour (apds and heatfs) no long range accuracy (for some reason), no speed, no survivability (one pen to turret explodes the ammo).

[@connoissuer_of_class]

“It never one shots…unless it hits the ammo” The pain of early British sabot is the same as heat I guess…

[@ravenouself4181]

British beginner vehicles make even the French beginner vehicles look good. At least the French pea-shooter does damage once it penetrates.

[@Chrisdaman001]

Im actually having fun with the AMX 13- M24, bought it during the sale and at 3.3 the M61 shot is just *chef's kiss*

[@nossiro90]

mfw I am grinding the french tree solely for this vehicle, because I miss it so much from it's old days in WoT that I want it in WT regardless of it's performance

[@kocayrklibirinsan3056]

how about type 64???

[@nossiro90]

in WoT? still a tier 6 stat padder in WT idk but is a hellcat turret and gun, if you know how to flank that thing's good

[@JustAnotherRandomPersonOnline]

Good video! On a side note... when a vehicle is so bad that even Spookston uses bushes? It's a bad vehicle. Edit: Why isn't it at 6.3, or even 6.0 (like the Israeli Super Shermans)?

[@nesyboi9421]

Honestly I think it still depends on the person. There is someone who's playstyle fits the ELC, it's just not spookstons style. Somebody will figure a way to utitlize that low profile. To be honest though I'll stick to my AMX-13 thank you.

[@lucatthedoor5391]

@@nesyboi9421 I've stoped playing WT for a while : is the amx 13 still very expensive to repair ? (If i remember correctly the last time I played it was 13k)

[@pax6833]

@@nesyboi9421 My friends said the thing is OP and they bounced Tiger IIs, they are obviously not trying to drive this thing into 50m range

[@reinbeers5322]

Why are cold war CHEAT-FS launchers going up against WW2 armor in the first place

[@valian8985]

@@reinbeers5322 why is B1bis facing 1944 rounds and tanks ?

[@Deroven]

See here's where you're wrong. It's not a tank. And as we know sailing ships used to account for roll in their firing solution; hence this honours the napolean navy's tradition by providing you options to engage enemy either on the roll down, or up, based wether you want to shoot targets rigging or its hull. Napoleon thanks Gaijin for their service, as this is the best we get while we wait for French navy. And by accounting for this fact, it all makes sense.

[@benjaminkonikoff2026]

L+Ratio+ciggy breakfast+ don’t play France

[@nahuelleandroarroyo]

3:25 ah yes, Germany teammates, the damaged T34 even pull a flank, move Tiger to 4.0

[@cookiecraze1310]

Yes. Now the question is... Who doesn't?

[@747simmer4]

Spook i actually like the clips of you dying. Yea it’s not “enjoyable” or “entertaining” but it somehow makes me, and probably others, feel better about their experiences with the game seeing that other people feel the same frustration

[@redtsar]

This IS my favorite French vehicle I was actually excited to hear when it was leaked that it was coming to WT SHAME ON ME FOR ACTUALLY BEING EXCITED FOR WT! It’s a fucking light tank ffs I really hope (but know it won’t happen or it will take a long ass time) that they fix this Also, I don’t care if it’s “historically” accurate, no vehicle should only have access to HEAT, they need to be given a solid AP round, cause there are too many things on maps that HEAT just gets caught on This is a game at the end of the day, not a hardcore historically accurate sim

[@matthiuskoenig3378]

its not light tank, its a tank destroyer. the historical documents say its role is a cheap, light, mobile combat vehicle to protect infantry from tanks. and if you are going to make changes "because HEAT gets caught on too many things" why don't you make the historically accurate change rather than the ahistorical change, and make HEAT less sensitive...

[@shronkler1994]

@@matthiuskoenig3378 "cheap, light, mobile reconnaissance vehicle" my brother in christ, you're describing a light reconnaissance vehicle... a light vehicle... a light tank

[@RaiderTango]

This is just POV: heat is your only/only viable ammunition

[@randomd8266]

*Spookton talks about the awful suspension* Me (Soviet player): How bad can it be? can't be worse than T-34 85's *Sees the suspension* Me: the T-34 looks stabilized in comparison

[@ravenouself4181]

ngl, the t-34 isn't half bad

[@Dovahkiin520]

Yes, gaijin does indeed hate France lol the ELC should be able to full rotate while not in motion. Recently unlock the Foch and it just blows my mind the the ammunition is stored opposite of the loader. Like no wonder it has a long reload, they have to fight over the gun breech to the commanders side to grab a round lol

[@ozgurhubup2863]

2:44 I can't believe he actually sweared

[@Dredgno]

Love how raw the footage is, not a lot of videos show what it’s like to play war thunder on a casual basis.

[@WamuroRiXi08]

This format surely is nice and fun to watch , shows the realistic sides of things for WT gameplay.

[@T26e4sp]

I'd like to take a minute to say that the amx 13 still has an 8k credit repair cost at 6.7. While the prem amx 13 has around an 3k repair cost and the amx 13 90 has 6k repair cost. Does not make much sense to me.

[@florentin_simon]

The French AMX-13 has an 11,6k SL repair cost, and the Israeli AMX-13 has a 5k SL repair cost.....

[@T26e4sp]

@@florentin_simon just for an autoloader with a mediocre shell.

[@ncrranger.6634]

I rather enjoy your series who bad is the (vehicle name here) and was wondering if you`d do one on the "M24 Chaffee its my favourite tank.

[@airraid1266]

Dont play France, but its a cutie of a TD

[@DutchIshGoose]

I watched this vid again a year later right after the latest upload which was the only he challenge on the obj 279 and he sounds so much more lively and comfortable nowadays, love to see the progress

[@filmandfirearms]

According to everyone who yells at me, saying that the T-44 is completely broken and has no right to be at the BR it is, having literal sponges for suspension is completely fine and not a major issue which makes the tank nearly unusable

[@blu5021]

The T-44 is pretty good tho… like, reaaaly good…

[@pipopoikapelaa5468]

@@blu5021 An 85 that hide against 7.3 isn't really the best with its shitty penetration.

[@jeandelacroix6726]

Wait until you see how they screwed the ARL 44s. They don't want to add the semi autoloader and make it load longer than any 90 mm. And the turret traverse missing 60% of its actual speed.

[@LeGrandSarrazin]

Tbf, we don’t quite have an exact figure for the reload, yet. Just that it should be “faster than the Sherman” at reloading. But, we’re workin on it

[@princessapplestrach6327]

Or the damage of certain shells like the 47mm and the 90mm on the ARL

[@lukigensfm]

still makes wehraboos cry tho :)

[@Gary_The_Metro]

Yeah but it has HEATFS so you'll have a billion tiger II mains screaming about how it's just by default an OP vehicle no matter what

[@ValiduzZ]

What plagues this and all the HEAT-slingers is the absurdly poor post-pen. I absolutely dispise popping 3 of these sounds into a tank. Practically decrewing & destroying individual ammo-pieces shot-by-shot. Great vid. Loved the C&C Generals soundtrack!

[@S.Fortunato]

Well, who doesn't?

[@homfri111]

so the tank that literally is called LIGHT COMBAT VEHICLE doesn't get scouting or any light tank abilities?

[@quocvinhnguyen2063]

Yes

[@irinashidou9524]

Should have gave us French tanks we actually asked for…like the Char 2C

[@stevemc01]

The Army Doctrine of Low-profile Light Vehicles: The flatter/lower down the vehicle is, the higher chance it’s gonna end up doing some tutel roleplay at the worst moment possible.

[@nomecognome794]

this tank looks like something i would make in sproket💀

[@vizender]

The last 2 interesting vehicles France got in the past years are the EBR 1954 and 1963, which are both premium tanks. That’s sad.

[@derrickstorm6976]

Imagine if this thing got hydropneumatic suspension At least it wouldn't bop around like a 1930 tankette :D

[@mojom.9221]

That's Said. Even though I didnt't Played the French in WT (or Wows) yet, i wanted to try it for the ElC bis .... Well looks like this Ship has Sail, Amigo.... Why did Gaijin had to make a Tank destroyer out of our poor Fun-Clow-Car with 90mm gun.

[@Nassamest]

You should try it again after it got buffed(The heat now deals actual damage, it's 6.0 and the bobbing isn't this bad. Honestly it's quite fun and i was able to get like 8 kills in my second match in it

[@thanos9820]

1:59 how do you do this range (distance) configuration. raise it? i cant do it pls help

[@ReaReaTheOne]

for me it's like a lot of the players I play WITH and AGAINST have anger issues and make the game more difficult for everyone😕

[@hardstyle4life394]

yeah they do, just look at SPAA, one on 4.3 and than one on 8.3... so you literally can't defend your self from planes between those br's

[@jaxrammus9165]

ill stop complaining to gaijin if they EVER add a tank past 3.0 thats anywhere near this bad. russia gets super tanks and meanwhile every other tree has absolute garbage thrown in random places

[@neromastic4512]

Spookston I really think people should play the game whit a Driving License Some really are annoying drivers A Tank is still a Vehicle,it only can go on all terrain.

[@tansanbotilya1443]

We have: RUSSIAN BIAS Now get ready for: FRENCH HATRED

[@thedog2123]

Ngl, starting to like ur videos more. U make em feel more human, or well, feel like it's played by the average joe, compared to other warthunder youtubers that are literal godsend every video they make.

[@proactiveomnipresentvessel6569]

Watching that HEAT blow up for nothing more than encountering slightly thicker air is both funny and painful

[@Geniusinventor]

It's basically M56 of France make sense

[@CH3TN1K313]

Did that dude @ 4:00 rock winter camo for the express purpose of hiding against those houses? If so, lifetime chad award goes to him.

[@JustSomeDog]

where in hell do i buy @Spookston decal? i cant find it anywhere!?!!?

[@hunterproductions4904]

Could you take out the T-44 and or t-44-100?

[@skadoosh2396]

1:23 This part was actually oddly wholesome moment for War Thunder

[@trathanstargazer6421]

Far as I care. Unless you have a fast firing gun. There is no reason to bring more than 30 rounds.

[@assidiq178]

just wait until the ELC EVEN 90 comes in lol there is actually tons of ELC variants that is gonna be hella interesting for War Thunder lol you can even make full line ups of ELCs with AA ELC lol

[@quocvinhnguyen2063]

Yeah, and I can't wait for Gaijin to fuck up that tank too (just like the rest of French vehicles)

[@kadebass6187]

it's almost like people who play warthunder are mostly not actual tank drivers

[@Drummercommander]

It should get scouting, artillery and HEAT should be able to go through a fence. Then it might be decent

[@solar6400]

How come it does not have the ability to scout and call artillery like the m18s?

[@LKN117]

Crazy to see how far spooks has come in a year in terms of quality.

[@mynamegotbanned4239]

40mm Frontal armor is a lie, you still can die to 50. Cals from 700m away

[@stevenspiteri4510]

The suspension is not even modeled at all. Just lazy on Gaijin's part

[@YourGodStalin]

Gaijin doesn't care about any nation that isn't Russia or Germany.

[@Blondoneve]

In responce to the title...I mean, who doesn't

[@existentialcrisis2376]

2 years later it still doesn't get spotting.