Game of Thrones/ASOIAF Theories | Doran Martell | Doubt the Gout

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Part 5 of our analysis on Doran Martell. Title inspired by a comment from Adam Gray
Theories and analysis of A Song of Ice and Fire/Game of Thrones using text evidence and quotes from George RR Martin.
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[@TheOrderoftheGreenhand]

The fantastic title for this video was inspired by a hilarious comment by Adam Gray in one of our livestreams...#DoubtTheGout...give him the love he deserves

[@firetarrasque4667]

Seeing as you know IOIAF, what if you did a collab-ish thing where you try to debunk their ideas, in good faith of course.

[@joshmo141x]

I enjoyed the title too

[@PBRStreetgang]

Are you guys planning a live stream soon? I unfortunately missed the last one : (

[@kianaingram657]

I got an ad during this video for a medicine called urcinal for Gout inflammation.....this KZbin algorithm is really something. LMFAOOOOOOOO

[@armyofninjas9055]

Kiana Ingram Lol same.

[@childofpersia1213]

Oh lawd! 😂😂😂 that is rich

[@daeshawnmustard]

Just happened now

[@anaiglesias9972]

Ok now I'm doubting the gout .

[@brucewaite3733]

Man.... the asoiaf community has been so wrapped up in the Starks and Targaeryns, but you guys have cornered the market on the Martells. This series should make the non believers reconsider their theories.

[@GingerElliott_Jinger_Bee]

Cornered is strong words bc Preston. BUT I am so happy that TOtGH gave me something new to think about while I reread book 4 & 5!

[@lvd8122]

@@vanessaamesty6739 especially Tyrrell. Logically they should be the strongest house in Westeros. That they aren't precived as such means they must have problems with their Bannermen.

[@brucewaite3733]

I think when the winds of winter is released we're gonna get allot of missing history behind the Lannisters and perhaps Casterly. Something tells me they are a missing piece to first man history.

[@alanpennie8013]

@@lvd8122 Yep. There are hints that Randyll Tarly will betray them (as he did in season 7 of the show, itself a pretty big hint).

[@deg1studios]

@@alanpennie8013 I know you wrote this two years ago, but if you recall, could you explain the hints that Randyll Tarly will betray House Tyrell? Or maybe just point me to where I can find them

[@childofpersia1213]

I also considered that this might be a discrepancy on GRRM’s part - BUT the dissonance between documented gout symptoms and Doran’s behaviors is so large - that it can’t be a mistake. He’s putting heavy blankets on top of gout? Oh hell no! I found your brother’s experience with gout the most convincing argument

[@madambutterfly1997]

the fake gout is a scare tactic. in Star Wars Sidious' used his deformity as a pitty tactic and to further demonize the Jedi

[@theM4R4T]

Haha so true. I was picturing Palpatine crying "Please don't kill me. I am so weak" and then smiling once Windu is dead, when watching the video.

[@brucewaite3733]

#MartellForSithLord

[@nont18411]

Doran in Book 7: UNLIMITED POWAHHHHHHH while shooting lightning to kill Drogon

[@ShadowDogProduction]

*Me when I see the title of a new GH video* "Their theory sounds whack this time!" *Me after 20 minutes of cold Vulcan logic set forth* "Pass the Kool Aid!!!"

[@paulburgio5657]

This is a theory I've had for awhile. Pomegranates are a natural cure for gout and they are abundant in Dorne. Great video

[@kreegalobunsen602]

Maybe that means Bowen Marsh is gonna kill him.

[@xKody91]

I always thought it was weird he could do anything with the way his gout is described. He would have to drink milk of the poppy like the mountain did I would think. I like this theory.

[@akisafentoulidis4795]

Bring me that clarity!!

[@JoniukasVader]

It's not easy being Green...Hand

[@bubbahuskey113]

Maybe he uses a very well practiced glamour.

[@TheOrderoftheGreenhand]

Definitely possible

[@PBRStreetgang]

As someone who also experiences gout flare-ups once every few years, I can say that even the most minor inflammation can make someone tickling your foot with a feather feel like they're holding a lighter to it instead. It's clear that someone in Doran's condition would not be able to stand. BTW I love the phrase "arthritis on steroids" because steroids are usually the first-line treatment for arthritis : ) Seriously though, great video...I'm anxiously awaiting the next Ironborn video (or whatever your next video is going to be about).

[@corbinskywalker]

Let's give a big Green Hand...

[@vlpinfinity9448]

Good one!

[@lady_wasser]

I’m so glad you made this video! We all have been waiting since the live stream! I have always doubted the gout, with all the spices they eat in Dorne, he shouldn’t be so sick, thank you and we are all waiting for the next stream!

[@sunshineroth9605]

I was just about to comment but you said exactly what I am thinking!🙌

[@lady_wasser]

Sunshine Roth right? Turmeric is great for gout and I’m sure they eat that in Dorne, and peppers and spices in general...... Doran keeps sending his family to this impossible missions, got 2 killed already and I hope Arianne doesn’t have the same fate of her uncle ..... there are those who believe that poor Quentyn is still alive, but I doubt it, even though doesn’t hurt to hope for the best!

[@KayleeCee]

I used to care for a woman who had occasional gout flare ups in her toes with no tophi. She absolutely could not stand when she had a flare up. I had to use a mechanical lift to transfer her when she had a gout flare up. I had to use a specially designed frame to keep her blankets off of her feet when she was in bed. This woman was TOUGH and never complained, even after she had a major surgery that did not go well and resulted in a serious infection and A LOT of pain. But her gout flare ups would leave her in tears and absolutely inconsolable. The only things that sort of helped were the prescriptions for gout and doses of dilauded (a heavy duty opioid painkiller), and even then she was in a tremendous amount of pain and couldn't stand up.

[@gurtreynolds470]

I’ve always, always, doubted the gout.

[@TheOrderoftheGreenhand]

smart man Gurt

[@ivanbluecool]

Before seeing the video. His diseases reminds me of lord manderly. Brave men die in war. Smart men use thier weakenness to thier advantage to not die in war but instead use it to be safe and plan while everyone is out in war

[@siomhe8539]

I agree with M'lady's brother. My husband has left work sick exactly 2 times in 6 years. The first time ever was for a gout attack (the second time he passed out and I had to take him to get a head CT). This is a former army infantry officer who has had to have an iv on the job for dehydration and then went back to work...Also, his gout reminds me of Littlefinger and Varys' strategies...no one is afraid of them, so no one perceives them as a threat...

[@guesswho1047]

And here I thought you guys forgot about Doran the deceiver 😉 You guys are the best! 💚✋🏽

[@theM4R4T]

I have this scene in my head: there will be some battle in the next books, maybe Aegon vs the Lannisters or something, and then out of nowhere, the Dornish army arrives to join the war and at their head sits Doran, armored, on a horse and leads them into battle. Everyone is shook.

[@emiliocamachoerice6380]

I think he's based on genies and the gout is like his bottle which he uses to fool others to think they're in control

[@coreymicallef365]

So I wonder how Doran would look to Aria, after all she has no difficulty looking at unpleasant things (she kissed a skull and ate a worm out of the eye socket is just the first example that comes to mind) and was taught to "look with her eyes" I believe the quote was from Syrio Forel.

[@jodiemcadams1418]

I’m at about the same stage as your brother with gout. He’s spot on about the bed sheet thing. And when I first read the stuff about Doran’s gout I said, “That’s bs, if he had gout there is no way he’d be doing all that.” Glad y’all put this video together, it’d even be good for someone who doesn’t care about aSoIaF but knows someone with gout and wants to understand a little more about it.

[@TheOrderoftheGreenhand]

we were a little nervous about this video because we don't have the medical backgrounds to really explain it, which is why it took us so long to make it because we were trying to read all these medical journals to wrap our minds around it...her brother came over for dinner a few weeks back and we had that conversation with him, which then gave me the idea to bother my friend about it too, and after talking to them, we felt pretty confident we could pull this video off

[@houseflan2505]

Listening to this while typing away at work. Many thanks to the Order of the Green Hand. Cant wait for Winds of Winter when Doran stands up and goes full water dancer on us.

[@malmorbidus2788]

Doran is a raging opioid addict, fuelling his mad and erratic plot while allowing him to stand temporarily.

[@kreegalobunsen602]

That's what you'd need for the first stages. Doran needs a pact with the devil.

[@PBRStreetgang]

Opioids help with the pain caused by gout, and the best thing to treat the inflammation is colchicine, which is made from the crocus plant. Doran must be on the Westerosi version of heroin if he's able to stand in such a condition. I wonder if refining milk of the poppy would be something taught in the Citadel : )

[@alanpennie8013]

@@PBRStreetgang Highly likely. I imagine they are faced with many conditions where pain management would be the best they could hope to do

[@KayleeCee]

And here I thought that The Mountain was the raging opiate addict of Westeros, always drinking that milk of the poppy, lol.

[@Hyndergogen9]

@@KayleeCee Why can't there be several. In case you weren't aware Heroin, Morphine, "Milk of the Poppy" all take away pain and make you feel good. Why would only one person succumb to such temptation of feeling no pain?

[@kianaingram657]

The hashtag that shook The World of Ice and Fire #DoubtTheGout

[@michaeleaverly7943]

The grass quote is one of my favorites. And I would always tie the Art of War in when trying to explain Doran to book/show readers. I’ve been waiting to see what Doran is up to. Loved this video

[@Lucia-kc2pk]

Why does your brother look like “show Euron”? 😂 Love it!!!

[@TheOrderoftheGreenhand]

because that's what her brother looks like

[@undarkwin]

Maybe he could have done a better job than shitty showEuron!

[@BlackangelKatakuri]

@Jethro Torczon But he looks nothing like Euron

[@RedSky-vf8bf]

I think the physical state of the Lord of Dorne is meant to mirror the current status of Dorne itself. Most of the goudt affects Doran’s LEGS- the source of MOBILITY. What do we know about the mobility of Dorne’s armies? Well, they don’t have a navy after Nimeria burned all their ships. So Dorne’s “sea legs” are destroyed and ruined. Just my two cents.

[@raistlinsmits7265]

Ooooo boy, Christmas must have come early again, because I just got another Order of the Green Hand video!! It's even about Dorne! Look at me, commenting before watching the video. I just couldn't resist sending a little love your way! Thank you @The Order of the Green Hand for always providing me with something of quality to fill the void of time with! Love and Respect!

[@TheOrderoftheGreenhand]

thank you

[@HebrewsElevenTwentyFive]

When Doran finally reveals his full hand of cards, metaphorically speaking and sides with Aegon, faeces will hit the fan. Love the video, your effort is appreciated!

[@cassiuscoleman4624]

At first I was really drawn in reading about the gout. I thought this R. Martin guy is quite the writer. But then I think I began to wise up a bit as this R. Martin seemed to be going to great lengths to describe this condition, causing readers as well as most characters to feel sorry for him. And that's when it hit me. Look back to when Maester Pycelle had a session with Roz or one of Baelish's other ladies and afterward he stands up straight and kind of limbers up a bit. Then before he heads out to interact with anyone and everyone, he slouches down again and really puts on a show of moving very slowly. Maybe Doran really does have gout...to some degree. Bad as it's described in the books? Hmm. Either way its a ruse and one created to go about plotting his retribution in as unassuming manner as possible. If his enemies dismiss him as a weak, fragile enemy they might also underestimate him and be caught totally unawares of his strike when it comes. He puts on such a show of it so that word would spread far and wide. Spread through the walls, under the floor so that anyone's little birds would tell tales of how weak and infirm Doran is. Hopefully inspiring dismissal and underestimation.

[@baronessvondengler]

This reminds me of the plot of The Prestige (spoiler - if you haven't still watched for the past 10 years or so). What if Doran and Oberyn have been playing everyone all this time and are really, somehow, one and the same person? Or have been switching back and forth? That would be one helluva plot twist.

[@alastairbond7104]

I mean that would involve some Tupac level of death faking. Considering the whole mountain cracking his head open like an egg.

[@baronessvondengler]

Alastair Bond True. But who’s head got cracked: Oberyn or Doran playing Oberyn?

[@forloveofthepage2361]

We need some "Doubt the Gout" shirts.

[@TheOrderoftheGreenhand]

They’re coming soon

[@kreegalobunsen602]

It would make better sense to supply foodstuffs with that motif. A stroganoff with heavy cream for our lady, and beef wellington for the gentleman. Dessert will be dairy ice cream and cheesecake. To drink we will offer port. A gallon of port. Just guzzle it.

[@allyriastark3508]

I don't want to sound like a crazy lady but I read a post about Summerhall and Rhaegar's birth and they were thinking if Rhaegar is son of Duncan and Jenny instead? We know Jenny survived Summerhall and Rhaella had seven+ miscarriage, stillbirth and infant deaths between Rhaegar and Viserys. Gilly says a mother that abandone her son is cursed and Jenny is said to dance with her ghosts. This would also explain why Rhaegar loved Summerhall and his connection to Ghost of High Hall. I would love to be more tinfoiled than that. What if Jenny was a descendant of Alys Rivers and Aemond the One Eye? Alys was pregnant when Aemond died and she was in Harrenhall. She is a greenseer (?) that sees the future in fires, clouds and pools that's a powerful seer actually. And we never learn what happened to her or her children. If Aemond/Alys > Jenny and Jenny/Duncan> Rhaegar and Rhaegar/Lyanna > Aegon we have one heck of a talented seer/warg combo roaming Westeros now. I am going nuts without TWOW. I am also thinking if it is possible Aerion's son Maegor was taken in by House Dayne as his grandmother was Dyanna - maybe Gerold is his descendants? There are so many loose ends to Targ family it is so frustrating.

[@asharadaynedragonblood1803]

I think Dyanna Dayne is quite important in here. Her blood might be: it might be the true dragonblood. Targaryens were unable to hatch dragons for decades and when Dayne bood came in line all of a sudden the Ts were 100% certain dragons will hatch again. That is why I firmly believe that Dany is Asharas and Rhaegars daughter. Lyanna and Rhaegar though never happened in my opinion.

[@allyriastark3508]

@@asharadaynedragonblood1803 OMG never! I don't want anyone near Ashara in any circumstances if this man isn't Ned fucking STARK. We are told so many times Ashara and Ned were in love it will be pointless if they had no connection. And R/Ashara could happen without any secrecy whatsoever because if Aerys racist ass can tolerate a marriage between Elia and Rhaegar he would accept purple eyed Ashara better. Dayne's have no dragon blood they are first men. But it is interesting it is all Maekar's children that had dragon dreams with the exception of Daemon Blackfyre who also had visions.

[@asharadaynedragonblood1803]

@@allyriastark3508 Well I am very sure that Ned and Ashara and all these rumors DO indeed have a great role to play. It is the key secret I think. Dany is so often mentioned being connected to Rhaegar and looking like Ashara and being connected to the colour purple that I counted 1+1 together. Aerys did not like Dornish. Martin already promised we will learn more abourt Arthurs relationship towards Aerys, so I guess Aerys did not trust any Dayne. Ashara was right there. No matter what, Ned got extremely angry or hurt by Ashara. That is why he forbid her name. Ned, Ashara, Rhaegar, Lyanna and Arthur, Jon and Dany, and Young Griff are all somehow in a great secret.

[@alanpennie8013]

@@allyriastark3508 They may have non - Targaryen dragon blood. There are hints of dragons in Westeros during the Age of Heroes. The TV spin - off may provide more information about this.

[@allyriastark3508]

@@alanpennie8013 possible. And I want to talk about Dyanna Dayne more - her sons were also problematic, Daeron had dragon dreams and become drunk, Aerion had dragon dreams and drank wildfire, Aegon had dragon dreams and Summerhall happened, even Aemon had dragon dreams and talked about Rhaegar about the prophecy. We don't know about her daughters though Rhae said to practice sorcery and made a love potion for Aegon. Things don't seem to be blind for an Allyria/Aegon union.

[@edi9892]

I'm a chemist and not a doctor. AFAIK, gout is the salt of uric acid. Uric acid is very poorly soluble in water, but when it combines with e.g. calcium it precipitates and becomes pretty much impossible to dissolve again (unless you use some chemicals that would do you in too). Especially Calcium salts are very good at forming needle like structures that cause puncture wounds and pretty much act like like glass shards causing inflammation everywhere... Side-note: AFAIK, most carnivores cannot develop gout as they don't produce uric acid.They remove excess ammonia from proteins by other means, which causes them to smell strongly, in particular their urine and if I'm not mistaken makes several carnivores inedible to us (would damage our kidneys if we tried).

[@bubbahuskey113]

Thanks for more EXCELLENT and thought provoking content!

[@TheOrderoftheGreenhand]

thank you for watching Ser

[@thatbaratheongirl7726]

Thought I'd got away without a disgusting foot picture...then those hands 🤢

[@asharadaynedragonblood1803]

Yess!! Well done. And Varys being NO Eunuch. I really expect that.

[@adrianburchell8075]

when he decides to act, nobody will see him coming...except Arya after what Syrio had taught her, but i cant see them crossing paths...

[@StormWolf01]

I've had my first gout episode about 4 years ago. Only happens on one joint (left big toe), and it is true that at it's maximum gout is excruciatingly painful. You can't walk (can hardly put a sock on, can't put shoes on), and truly, just the weight and friction of bed sheets is very painful. However, even though i have gout, and i can attest that the pain is incredible, i find it hard for me to judge someone else. Maybe he is more pain-resistant, maybe his willpower is stronger than mine. Maybe his pain receptors don't work as well as a regular person anymore. That said, the "doubt the gout" theory seems strong. Hard to think that anyone with such advanced gout could press anything into someone else's hand, or move his wheelchair himself.

[@johnathanwalker8395]

Once again you made my week. Been having a lot of troubles lately with mental issues. It's nice to have something to take my mind off of everything. Thank you.

[@TheOrderoftheGreenhand]

Glad we could help. These things pass. It probably doesn’t feel that way when you’re in the middle of it but give it a little time and things turn around

[@bradwolf07]

The Dude sounds straight forward and to the point. I was respecting him before you mentioned he is a Fireman. So I agree, absolute legend. I wasn't doubting the gout before this video. Now i am

[@madambutterfly1997]

the devil's in the details as usual with GRRM

[@danjordan1]

Welcome back to the Wolf's Den...

[@bnwiley77]

Maaaaaan! I was just about to eat lunch while I watched this. Thanks for helping me start my diet 🤢

[@TraciPeteyforlife]

If Doran actual suffered from this level of gout. He would have over dosed on pain killers by now. Or started a war before now, as all the pain. Would have made him start to go crazy.

[@ajarnloma3368]

tell Carmine to get his shit together and let you guys colab with Preston Jacobs!

[@astrinymris9953]

15:15 I wouldn't say that Tyene comes across as sincerely concerned for Doran's health in this scene. Neither does Maester Caleotte, who immediately starts patting down Doran for contact poisons after Tyene leaves.

[@thisguy8106]

Wow... this is something I never even thought about. This is insane. Wow.

[@ivanbluecool]

I hope you guys one day explain the boltons back story and thier history. I would love to hear everything about thier history anf why they clash with the stark so much.

[@billybobsac4421]

The dread fort is ridiculously close to winterfell

[@chuave152]

I love your work guys! Edit: I remember there were mafia guys who faked illess during their trials. Nice catch!

[@kreegalobunsen602]

So do you think it is a glamour or a costume? And whichever you think, is he getting help or applying it himself? There is someone there he trusts enough with this--but whom? He has a wife he is "estanged" from, purportedly returned to Norvos. Speaking of "purport", the word seems to fit him even better than it would Varys.

[@TheOrderoftheGreenhand]

Either one is an option. It could even be a combination of the two. We think he probably does it himself. He doesn’t seem to trust anyone

[@hypatiakovalevskayasklodow9195]

Daaaamn now that's a cliffhanger!

[@ilkkarautio2449]

I have pretented to be badly injured to lure my enemy closer and to make him drop his guard. It worked, and im going to do it again the next time in a similar situation.

[@Helloitsmeokay]

Office is still closed to the public so me and my headphones get another listen through the playlist.

[@jamespinto1884]

Awesome video guys! I have two specific questions I think would do great in a follow up Q&A. 1. So he's been faking it for 3 years. What else has happened 3 years ago to trigger this farse? 2. If he ever shows what he's doing, I believe it will happen in an Pate's Alchemist sort of fashion, where it would be only known to a dying POV character. I believe that is the actual hint to the backstabbings around Doran the Show gave us. That he is going to get up unexpectedly and kill somebody, in a way that it is only revealed to us, the reader. If that's the case, and I know it's a bit of a long shot, who would it be the POV character in Dorne to be backstabbed by Poor Frail Doran? Thank you guys so much for this video. I have personally doubted his gout for a long time, specially because that was the perfect why Oberyn had to attend Jeffrey's wedding in Doran s place. But those two questions I could never get around. Why 3 years ago, and who's gonna die in order for us to find out. 😱🔪

[@tahirghias3057]

Yes, I was waiting for this. I want more on Doran Martell.

[@Wilkidw]

i have acute gout. When I have flare ups I tell people flat out: "I've been stabbed. The gout hurts worse."

[@OrcJonnyEscobar]

Good analysis. More than 5+ instances where he does something he shouldn't be able to DOES make it seem intentional on GRRM's part. Great structure to the video as well. The bitmojis are hilarious haha my sisters use them all the time so I can totally see your wife suggesting them 😂😂 it actually goes very well with the video too so props LMAO

[@alanpennie8013]

Doran "Dr Harrison Wells" Martell. Could be. Depends whether Doran becomes a major villain in the third act of this series.

[@dratheart]

That was really good, but will we be getting into how he pulls the gout deception off in a future video? Maybe it's really him and he's hooked on Milk of the Poppy, or it's not even him and he uses a glamour or faceless men magick to disguise this? But great work as always and I'm sorry I'm chiming in so late this time!

[@markwelschmeyer2426]

it could be GRRM was misunderstanding gout like he did Tyrion in book one.

[@dustinbird9170]

Sorry this isn't related but I don't want to lose the thought before the next video. But I was struck to day by the realization that you guys pointed out that winter roses are said only to grow in the glass gardens of winterfell, so how in the seven hells did rheagar get a whole crown of them spontaneously at the tournament at harenhall to give to lyana if it was so damn "Spontaneous?"

[@TheOrderoftheGreenhand]

Since they’re rare and costly, I’d imagine there was a vendor at the tournament selling them. With a guest list like that, it’d be a perfect place to sell expensive things

[@mozart7820]

Love the cartoons 💚

[@GarrisonHat]

Best part of this video by far!

[@CrouchingTigress01]

Interesting theory, but their is a problem... Jamie tells us in A Storm of Swords "Every great lord has unruly bannermen who envy him his place. My father had the Reynes and Tarbecks, the tyrells have the Florents, Hoster Tully had Walder Frey. Only strength keeps such men in their place". So with this knowledge and the fact they have the Yronwoods who have wanted to take back the kingdom, why would Doran do this?! Unless Doran has a knife at a Yronwood heir in the water gardens, it makes no sense. Heck, the Yronwoods had the upper hand when they had Quentyn as a Hostage/ Ward. Sure his appearance could unsettle the Lord in a face to face, but without the wild red viper, there is nothing to be afraid of in the grass.

[@allyriastark3508]

Yronwoods still style themselves as Bloodroyal and doesn't follow Rhoynar customs along with other First Men/Andal houses of Dorne. They also effectively raised Quentyn who we know would be Prince of Dorne if Viserys and Arianne married. So it will be easy to control him considering Quentyn also wanted to marry a Drinkwater girl - Drinkwaters are landed knights of Yronwood family. It was possibly Oberyn that had them under control which makes death of Lord Yronwood suspicious.

[@CrouchingTigress01]

Agreed which adds to my point. why look weak to the house most unruly and most likely to stab you in the back? If the Order can come up with a theory/ reason, I'll listen but right now it has no force... like Quentyn's marriage pack

[@alanpennie8013]

@@CrouchingTigress01 There's Areo's axe to keep them in fear and the possibility he will make Quentyn his heir to keep them in hope. And of course the failure of Quentyn's mission to Slavers Bay will discredit them, which was likely Doran's plan all along.

[@CrouchingTigress01]

I don't this agree about the plan to discredit the Yronwoods, but the threat of the axe coming down on the family is weak. They have assisted in many rebellions, and so I still argue looking weak is not wise. Remember what happened with Tytos? The game made of "twisting the lion's tail"? It took someone like Tywin to restore their power, and so unless Quentyn comes back as a Tywin or Oberyn 2.0 no one will take house Martell seriously or be afraid of Aero's "wife" when they are 6k miles away

[@alanpennie8013]

@@CrouchingTigress01 I think Doran inspires fear because he is a mysterious figure whose intentions are hard to read. He's rather like a Sudanese ruler from Ibn Battuta's Travels. Tywin is in Germanic tradition where the ruler is the most renowned warrior in a group of warriors.

[@joshmo141x]

Doran also seems to have a glass candle maybe, right? So he knows some magic type stuff. Maybe he knows how to glamor? #everyoneisglamored

[@4455atrain]

Love these people these vids are the best form of media to me !! Better than movies or television series!!! Better than reading them !!

[@Cronoo]

I've been waiting for this one since the livestream where #doubtthegout all started! A "(don't) tread on me #doubtthegout" tshirt would be dope

[@taylortanner37]

Yeah gout sucks I know cause one of my best friends got diagnosed with it in his late 20s (thin , very active man so we were surprised) and I know modern medicine helps but for almost a year he just kept working 14 hours shifts with me on his feet the whole time , breaks were as rare as conjoined twins at that job , and when it would flare up I would wrap his leg in a tight ace bandage and put a pad in his shoe to cushion his foot and back to the body breaking labor we'd go. Doran is probably a lot more physically capable that anyone knows and is using gout to lull people into a false sense of obscurity. He's taking a page out of the yellow toad's book

[@legionforce1374]

Awesome vid! Really connected dots from the books. Well formed argument backed w observations that give weight to the theory

[@Sarwyck]

There was one thing that came to mind (and I'm halfway through the video at this point). Is it just possible that George RR Martin simply didn't portray Doran's gout 100% accurate to real-life gout symptoms/capabilities?

[@BlackangelKatakuri]

Very possible.

[@mickdundee364]

fantastic as always you guys. im on my second pass through the books and just got to book IV. i've never considered doran's gout to be some sort of ruse. it will be a very interesting read through with this idea in mind.

[@SatyaVenugopal]

Holy shit, you guys! This is the quality content I subscribe to your channel for.

[@TheOrderoftheGreenhand]

thank you

[@ፏዐኘዐዘጀዐ]

Brilliant💥. Love this, thank you

[@prof.cecilycogsworth3204]

I've always assumed the prince's gout was to RL gout was what dragon-glass is to RL obsidian. Even so, I love your videos!

[@ashleyferguson3115]

Excellent theory!! Animation was hilariously on point too.

[@TheOrderoftheGreenhand]

Thank you

[@jacklantern7505]

Isnt it more likely george didnt really research gout all that much. The same way theons hair turns grey, something that cant actually happen.

[@adriandiaz-cabrera1733]

The apple and melon descriptors are for the size of the entire knee and comparing inflammation between them. The text isn't saying that the knees have a apple/melon sized deposit on it, it says that one knee was an apple and one was a melon. Size of the knee. Also, the description of his hands do NOT match the pictures...he said cherries, not sausages. Never mind how much milk of the poppy Doran takes. This video needed some generous leaps to try and explain this one.

[@TheOrderoftheGreenhand]

a knee is bigger than an apple to begin with, so there is no reason to think that Areo Hotah wasn't describing the size of the inflammation...and the picture we showed looked like the knuckles were about the size of cherries

[@adriandiaz-cabrera1733]

The Order of the Green Hand oh wow, I wasn't expecting a discussion, thanks for the quick reply. Maybe a normal knee is slightly larger than an apple. But a knee from an atrophied leg from not being used for at least three years? The muscle won't be nearly as prominent around his knee, and while sitting, it would definitely be smaller than an apple sticking out into the blanket covering him if there's just bone and skin. That's inflammation. And sure, maybe some of the joints are the size of cherries on the pic. But in the pic, every joint is at minimum the size of a cherry, some are larger. Not one is smaller than a cherry. I don't think the books say that every single one of the joints on Doran's hands are enlarged (please correct me if I'm wrong). Using that hand as an example is definitely over exaggeration, as is basing hand function of that hand. Ps, I do appreciate your videos and theories. I hope you don't mind me challenging some points.

[@TheOrderoftheGreenhand]

I love a good debate so no offense taken...and I had considered the idea that his legs would be shriveled and really skinny from not using them for years, but it still seems to me that the tophi would be nearing the point of dislocating his knee joints...and tbh, after looking at disgusting pictures for hours in search of some that would do Doran's condition justice, that picture of the gross hand was the closest I could find to the description we had...and it doesn't literally say that every single joint in his hands have cherry sized tophi...it just says that his knuckles are the size of cherries, which more implies that its all of them...we had this theory for well over a year before we finally turned it into a video (mostly because we lacked the medical backgrounds to justify our position and most of the literature you can find online about it seems intended to be read by medical professionals), which is why when m'lady's brother was diagnosed with gout, we seized the opportunity to ask him some questions, and my friend finally finished medical school and had some time on his hands and was becoming a regular at our dinner table, so we asked him too, and after both of them told us that our theory made sense to them, from actual experience and a medical perspective, we decided it was time to turn it into a video

[@ivanbluecool]

Ive been looking at dorne history and I have to say. Why do people see oberyn as a good guy. He and dorne are made with a bunch of crazy people that start more trouble than they fix. I guess because of the hate for cersie is over that.

[@GhostEmblem]

Cersei, Gregor, Tywin plus Tyrion was loved and falsely accused and Dorne is much more socially liberal but yes he has done some highly questionable things.

[@ivanbluecool]

@@GhostEmblem I dont know if thats a joke or not. Was funny to read. Cersie was dumb as dhe didn't want tywin to be dishonored on his death and wanted his arrow taken out which made his swell up and look pathetic on death. Looking back. Tyrion was stupid for killing tywin as that casued even more chaos like when ned died.

[@brianm4178]

As a blonde, I frequently play dumb to see people's responses how long they will keep up their treatment of me and how they tell others they viewed me... but mostly, if they'd lie to me. In the military I also learned that if you looked like you were counting or trying REALLY hard to remember something, while walking, people are extremely less likely to bother you. I am an information sponge, not only do I want the answer, I want to know WHY. I can apply what I learned here, in many situations later, if I know the WHY to the WHAT. The problem woth this, is people will assume you are questioning their knowledge or being condescending and become defensive. Sometimes the first is true, but never the latter... or I'd have never bothered asking you a thing 😂

[@kpl-CA]

I have severe Gout Arthritis with tophi & kidney involvement (kidney stones). It can be genetically linked/inherited, and can begin in childhood. Self care includes acidic foods/vitamin C, rest, etc. The thing is *other* Arthritis forms can cause nodules - especially on fingers, including Rheumatoid Arthritis - which is also genetic & runs in families. At this point in my disease prograssion I am a WC user now, and self-propelling in a WC would be *excruciating*.

[@mikemercer5940]

Amazing as always.

[@saberserpent1134]

There HAS to be more to Doran's strategy. If not, he's not playing the Game of Thrones, he's just bench warming. This person is supposed to have a razor sharp intellect, yet we see him do little in the books, and NOTHING in the show. I was so disappointed that they just completely de-fanged his character to the point he doesn't even register as a player, let alone a master strategist.

[@ScubaMySteve]

There’s a scene where someone puts a blanket on Walder Frey’s gouty legs as well. Could be a hole in your theory, or Frey is up to the same thing

[@thegrimknight9766]

Been wait for this

[@adebrysi]

it's possible that 'toying with the figure' doesn't imply delicate, precise handling. he probably used both his crab claws to hold it up and look at it

[@TheOrderoftheGreenhand]

I guess that's possible but saying he was toying with it really painted a different picture in my mind...it made me think of a drummer twirling a drumstick in his fingers, or the way I used to twirl pens when I was bored in class

[@adebrysi]

lol yeah 'toying' is more of an active word, either way he'd be experiening pain, though.

[@2838103]

how convenient that the brother has gout just when you're making a series about a character with gout

[@TheOrderoftheGreenhand]

There’s nothing convenient about having gout to hear him tell it

[@2838103]

@@TheOrderoftheGreenhand I've really chosen a poor set of words. What i actually mean was "What a coincidence that the brother has gout when you're making a theory about a character who's main characteristic is suffering from gout, precisely"

[@TheOrderoftheGreenhand]

it was actually very convenient for us...how often to you get a chance to talk to someone with first hand experience with a topic that you want to make a ASOIAF theory video about

[@dakotadexter3948]

But like, is he faking gout, or just using his gout to his advantage?

[@cautionary_tale]

You're going down, Doran!!

[@nicovananda3893]

you know, all this information makes me believe if there is azorahai second coming then Doran will be the perfect person as the blood stoned empire second coming. The blood stone emperor is ruthless, power hungry and killed his own family just to win his throne. Doran did exactly that with much more subtle way, his appereances makes everyone loyal and pity him and his enemy never think anything from him, diffrent from the bloodstone that litterly show his evil intention, this monster is hiding behind his feeble and weak appereances while trigering the war in the entire land. If little finger is really his team then all the 7 kingdom war also being plan by Doran and if he indeed has vast network of slavery then we can tell 100% all of the shit that danerys face in the essos and maryn also part of his vast network. This guy litterly make other kingdom killed each other without even lifting his gouty finger from his fu$%^ng chair. God Damn!

[@NolanDaddy]

Doran dont be feeling no pain . He be to gone off that milk of the poppy. He a dopefiend.

[@RecklessCashflow]

This video is so good. I love the dornish storyline and anything that = evil weirwood net.

[@serlawrenceharlem6715]

Yessss. Some clarity

[@thomasj3701]

Well I do believe it's way past time the brother in law makes an appearance on the channel. He and I sound like we speak the same churlish language!

[@nikhilaryal]

Now I have to #DoubtTheGout

[@lucasluu1919]

the real question now is: When do you guys think he will act?

[@TheOrderoftheGreenhand]

probably when the Others attack the wall

[@jjvoity7797]

I love you guys even when I disagree. Only love from this side of the computer. Your whole Dorne stuff has been worth thinking about but a bit out there but this is really nuts. This may be something you bullsh*t about in public, maybe, but we've seen him in his private life dealing with the gout every day. It's not something you can fake that well that Areo Hotah or his daughter doesn't know it's a farce.

[@mgm3649]

I'm all for the Dornish master plan, but this seems somewhat far fetched, it doesn't make sense to me to fake the gout. My guess is that GRRM just didn't research gout all that well. He is bound to have some mistakes in the series.