Game of Thrones Clones

[@JustWrite]

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[@YouFightLikeACow]

Goddamn it you got me. My first thought was he's back from the dead, he pulled a Jon Snow Season 6 on us.

[@keyboardevangelist]

I would love if you analyse the writing of Succession...

[@IcefisherTenacity]

That’s a shame to spend all that time on this.

[@pressy-fb1hs]

Finally it's been so long I subbed after your pirates video wanting to watch a new video when it came out oh how long the wait

[@Alexander-kc8oq]

It´s pretty funny that Martin wrote A Song of Ice and Fire as an intentional diversion from Tolkien because he was sick of all the Tolkien clones and didnt want to be like them - only for future writers in two industries to completly ignore that and clone his work. And like wtith Tolkien clones, the Martin clones ended up not understanding what made the orginal work so good. And now we have a show that is trying to be both Game of Thrones and Lord of The Rings at the same time, and fails at both. Maybe not so funny after all...

[@comradetrashpanda8777]

Capitalism strikes again!

[@sharendavis9216]

@@comradetrashpanda8777it’s not capitalism, it’s stupidity

[@Alexander-kc8oq]

@@sharendavis9216 Those are not mutually exclusive

[@aedrianys]

I love this community. Actually smart people

[@cameraman502]

I'm not sure ASOIAF can be called a success either. I think the cynicism he uses to contrast with Tolkien heroic trope will prevent him from resolving the story in cathartic manner or force him to betray that cynical realism he has made the series to be. Who knows, maybe he will stick the landing

[@YourBlackLocal]

They don't seem to grasp what made GoT special was the consequences of character's actions.

[@thewatcher4552]

Also the outstanding cast!

[@jarjared3522]

The fact it was the only thing like it on television also made it special. The majority of its audience didn't like fantasy. You could say Game of Thrones was fantasy for people who hated fantasy.

[@090giver090]

Or they are trying to inject what worked in GoT into something that *isn't GoT* so hard, they destroy anything that made respective titles special.

[@r.vorhansen7076]

​@@thewatcher4552yes outstanding cast, still couldn't save the later seasons😢 writing is key

[@anahita7459]

To be fair, neither did GoT after season 4

[@dragonhead99]

Wow. Bucky Barnes look different without his beard.

[@neilhannan7525]

I feel bad for Witcher fans because the show writers want a game of thrones success show they Ignored books of lore and intrested story arcs that do their own thing 😢

[@saraa.4295]

Yeah, it was a pity..they had a great cast and great potential..but honestly i feel thats a bit the story of movies and series: once there is a behemoth, nothing else will bloom as long as the shadow lingers.. How long did it take for a truly great fantasy movie after LOTR?

[@aruak321]

It's why Henry Cavill left the show. He is a big Witcher fan and could no longer stomach the appalling direction that the show runners took the show in.

[@kjellduteweert9262]

Well, those writers couldn't write Got.

[@grfrjiglstan]

Game of Thrones was killed off by someone’s poor choice, and the rest of Hollywood has spent the past five years unable to process its death, throwing out unworthy successor after unworthy successor to cope. Life imitates art imitates life.

[@earnthis1]

"Hollywood" ? You mean Amazon? is Amazon Hollywood now? How about Sony pictures which is a Japanese business. Is that Hollywood? The short hand use of the word shows a generalization of an industry that seems childlike. Content is coming form EVERYWHERE now.

[@moon-moth1]

@@earnthis1 Amazon is a filthy rich, unethical mega corporation that's only in the film and tv show business for cold, hard, cash. And that is ruining countless once-amazing IP's after getting their greedy hands on them, because all they want is fast profit without actually learning why people loved the IP to begin with. Sounds like Hollywood is not such a strange short hand for Amazon, as the two basically are identical twins...

[@Asheriancommand]

The problem is no one wants another game of thrones. In peoples actual lives, they want more things like Ted Lasso, Arcane, Castlevania, Severance, interesting stories that aren't just a copy of sopranos. Its a very boring subject, and why I hate most modern fantasy shows. The things that are good are the ones that are different than their competitors.

[@hariman7727]

It was killed by Martin not writing the books.

[@SteampunkPirates]

I swear, a few days ago I clicked on your channel like "Oh yeah, I haven't seen Just Write videos in a while, let me catch up" only to see your latest was a year ago. Now you return and bless us with this. It's like you knew or something ❤ glad to have you back

[@jajssblue]

I think the biggest misstep is not recognizing the feel of these other works as independent. LOTR shouldn't really feel like GoT. They largely focus on completely different themes within fantasy.

[@vee1766]

Why the fuck not ?

[@jajssblue]

@@vee1766 Why?

[@EStensland88]

Reminds me of after the Avengers how everyone wanted a Cinematic Universe and forgot how it took a bunch of solo movies to build the world...and just started with Batman v Superman

[@AirLancer]

"Eh just have Wonder Woman watch a bunch of Quicktime videos that are also labelled with the heroes' logos, good enough. No need to organically set up anything, we don't have time for that!" The hard part to believe is that if you look up that scene on KZbin, there are people in the comments who are actually like "I got chills when this scene came on."

[@tariqthomas9090]

Not just solo movies. It took decent-to-good solo movies AND a good Avengers film. Also people forget that there had never been anything like Avengers before its release. It was extremely difficult to pull off.

[@ToastaToast]

"Game of Clones" was right there!

[@AntiCitizenX]

I was just about to make this exact same gripe!: D

[@jcampos002]

There was already a Bruce Lee doc with that title. Sorry.

[@jonfisher4106]

Is this why everytime I watch RoP or The Witcher I spend my time saying things like “where are they?!” Or “why should I care about this person?!” Great video thank you!

[@MisterRobotson]

The showrunners of game of thrones, are currently in charge of the Netflix adaptation of 3 Body Problem. The book contains violence. But the violence in the book is always either very matter of fact, or it's the main characters hearing about it second hand. The show takes every opportunity to make every instance of violence as gratuitous as possible, including inventing new ones. There's a murder of a character who's not in the book, by a character who's not in the book, in a way that doesn't make sense after the mysteries are solved, but you can bet there are four milk jugs worth of blood. The episode with the boat does happen in the book, pretty much exactly, but it's like one page of the characters watching from the base. The show gives you the slaughterfest inside the boat because every show needs to have a red wedding.

[@Ranshin077]

Yet, it worked, while scarring many 😅

[@kiryuchansboyfriend]

The Witcher is a great example of how this sort of "subconscious trend chasing" can damage a series. I only have the video games as reference (idk if the books do this as well) but what made them so great in my eyes and set them apart from all the Tolkien/Martin reskins in the 2000s-2010s fantasy genre was their heavier emphasis on Geralt and his perspective rather than splitting the focus between a dozen or so major characters. There was also a noticeable lack of grandeur to the series that I liked; he wasn't some aristocrat or emperor but a drifter (basically a hobo) who kills over-sized vermin for a living. Sure he interacted with people of wealth and power but because of his status he also saw many others of varying races, social castes, allegiances, etc. With the Netflix show however, all that was lost. It wasn't "The Witcher" but "The Witcher and Friends." This could just be an example of video games having an advantage as a medium but tbh I don't see at all how that couldn't translate over...

[@ReissumiesSF]

Yahtzee Croshaw of Zero Punctuation once likened Geralt to a mediaeval chimney sweeper, and that has endeared me to him immensely. Geralt is very much a blue collar worker doing dangerous, unpleasant, grimy work. Yes, he's a kind of a superhuman, but not to the point that his life couldn't end on any given job assignment. He's not a grand wizard; he can influence things, but he's never going to become a central fixture of his world like Harry Potter or Aragorn.

[@hobosox]

The witcher books follow many characters, similar to the show. I started with the first 2 games before reading the book series and was surprised by how much of the books follow characters other than Geralt.

[@rabarbarum]

The Witcher books at their core are inspired by Henryk Sienkiewicz, of the Quo Vadis fame. His plots center on major historical turning points, such as persecution of early Christians in Rome, the battle of Grunwald/Tannenberg, or the 17th century wars in Poland-Lithuania. But his protagonists are always on the margins of these events. They are affected by the winds of history, they sometimes meet the real life historical figures, they even influence events in some subtle way - but they are never the major players. Their personal lives get entangled with the grand struggle, driving the narrative. The perspective is always that of someone trying to live their life amid turmoil, not one fighting for the throne. The protagonist in Quo Vadis is not Nero but Marcus Vinicius, a minor Roman noble who does not care about politics but is in love with a Christian girl. Geralt’s position is similar. He gets dragged into the conflict but he has only personal stakes in it. Even Yennefer eventually decides that fuck politics, I only care about my loved ones. And Ciri’s story ends right when Daenerys’s would begin. So, yeah. It does not translate into a GoT style narrative at all.

[@Krlytz]

I think this is like the difference between passing an exam because you studied and passing because you copied your classmate. Because it doesn't matter if you write the "right" answers, if you don't understand how you got there in the first place then the moment someone takes a closer look at your work you will fail anyways.

[@pbh9195]

The thing is with game of thrones and Lord of the rings is they don't "start" with 5 stories going on at once They start with a set of core characters Frodo and Hobbits at shire Stark family and winterfell At its through there point of view that we are introduced to other characters and plot that happen gradually

[@saraa.4295]

If we talk about the books, that is true for LOTR but not ASOIAF, where we had different viewpoints from the start.

[@cheeks7050]

@@saraa.4295 It started with the Starks.

[@saraa.4295]

@@cheeks7050 yes, but it got to Dany very fast without a direct link to characters we already knew.

[@cheeks7050]

@@saraa.4295 The Lord of the rings started with Elrond, Isildur, Sauron, then randomly jumps to the shire. OP isn't saying there aren't multiple characters he's saying they get introduced sequentially.

[@saraa.4295]

@@cheeks7050 no he says we get introduced to new characters through the point of view we know. Which is true for LOTR if we ignore the prologue (as we should as it is not in the book and also ancient history) but it is not true for a song of ice and fire. We meet ice (starks) and fire (Targaryens) separately and the book series builds up to them meeting

[@pavarottiaardvark3431]

William Goldman (Princess Bride, Butch Cassidy etc) used to talk about the fear and shame within Studios of being the person who passed on a project that was huge. Executive care more about "not passing on a hit" than about actually having successes. We can see this effect in the current landscape: Wheel of Time and Foundation being good is secondary to "we MUST adapt this because if someone else makes money I will look like a rube".

[@vernonmeidlinger870]

so what i'm hearing is it's not too late to finally start watching Game of Thrones

[@ahabicher]

you are better off reading the books. ;)

[@thenobletaco4232]

Yeah just don't watch past season 6. Also definitely read the books they're way more interesting.

[@shomarinangwaya-walker8295]

​@@ahabicheryeah amd you may only have to wait 5 years for the next book 😂😭

[@daninjamonkey1]

ik it's pretentious read it first if you haven't, plenty of detail gets lost in the adaption (there are plenty of nice additions as well). And the ending doesn't suck (or exist yet)

[@thewatcher4552]

Don't feel bad I didn't get started till season 6😅

[@akost96]

It feels like you're picking what everyone's thinking about but can't formulate and then put it into these awesome essays. There's no channel like this on youtube. Thank you, man)

[@FilledCircle]

@20:30 You'll be glad to know The Wheel of Time books do not move on from this. The characters CONSTANTLY think about this necklace and their time being enslaved. Any time they see someone enslaved they get really upset. THEN, a character creates their own version of the collar and it makes them uncomfortable, even though they use it on one of the most evil characters in the show.

[@VJechev]

Yes, but it does not hinder their adventuring, even with Nynaeve, feeling the worst of it, she still phases through it as it Robert Jordan wanted to show how we go through the worst parts of our experiences but that does not need to define our actions and how we find ways to cope even if you go back constantly to that time.

[@ivancorredera4241]

The show runners of Netflix’s Avatar attempt at trying to appeal to fans of game of thrones by combining the somber tone and complex political schemes with the lighthearted adventures and character driven plot of the original Avatar sounds like a recipe for disaster.

[@aruak321]

It was mediocre to ok but it definitely lost the charm and magic of the animated show. Watch that one instead.

[@Ninjaananas]

It is still a fine show. The politics also don't feel out of place.

[@qwertyloops]

hahaha i love the Every Frame A Painting nod. I only subbed to you after they stopped making videos, but you're also great in your own way, thanks for these videos!

[@cheezemonkeyeater]

"HBO does not own the concept of maps." Not for lack of trying, I'm sure.

[@codyh9175]

This makes me think of that book series that's called something like "A court of roses and thorns" or something

[@CanalTremocos]

Surprising that with such a generic name I know exactly which one it is. Makes me want to start with something like 'a fist for crows' and go from there.

[@codyh9175]

@@CanalTremocos right? I feel like every fantasy series, especially books, are blatantly ripping names off with 1 or 2 tiny changes

[@athenajaxon2397]

They've been trying to make that a show for so long Margot Robbie is rumored to produce it

[@mxvega1097]

The Thing of Thing and Thing. Sarah J Maas. Hack.

[@Zorak_97]

Bloom's concept of "misreading" does not mean necessarily a "bad reading", but rather a very personal and specific reading that the strong poet does of his precursor. Bloom is a gnostic, so everytime he interprets Literature, he interprets in gnostic and heretical terms. He defends the idea that artistic and literary creation can only exist through a heterodoxical disposition in his _Ruin The Sacred Truths_ (1989). So the strong poet is not giving a bad take on his precursor, but rather an interpretation that shifts from the canonical and orthodoxical understanding of that particular poem and only makes sense to the personality of the strong poet. The precursor is the sacred text, and every sacred text generates a certain hermeneutics around it, but at the same time every sacred text incites specific groups of people to interpret it in non-orthodox ways. If the strong poet creates a poem that exists in correlation to the current interpretation of the poem that came before, he's not actually creating anything, he's just practicing another form of reading, so he needs to interpret the precursor in a more extravagant way. For exemple, Blake reads Milton as a luciferian poet given how much space of protagonism Milton gives to Satan in _Paradise Lost_ . That is not, however, the basic interpretation of Milton, because Milton was a christian protestant and wrote the antithesis to _Paradise Lost_ with _Paradise Regained_ . Milton in Blake's work is exactly that: Blake's Milton, not the "real" Milton. But Blake wouldn't be able to create his work ( _Marriage_ , _Songs_ , _Jerusalem_ etc) if he didn't read Milton in that way.

[@Yggdraseed]

Thank you, this was an unexpected, but very welcome find. I've been trying to find ways to express the idea that literary interpretation is on some level an inherently creative process, that beyond needing to look at subtext it's also crucial to remember that any profound experience with a work of art of any kind is going to require the reader to add their own emotions, experiences, and ideas to it. The book isn't finished when the ink is dry, it's finished when the reader consumes and engages with it on the deepest level they can.

[@Zorak_97]

​​​@@Yggdraseed I recommend Antoine Compagnon's _Le Demon de la Théorie_ (in English: _Literature, Theory and Common Sense_ ). He has a chapter entirely dedicated to how literary theory and literary criticism perceives the role of the reader in the interpretation of the literary work. The idea that there's only one correct interpretation and anything else is "bad take" is absurd, the author's intention is the author _interpreting_ what he has created and it's one amidst many other interpretations that can be made. That doesn't mean the work can mean anything we can come up with, the work is trying to say _something_ (already implying it's specificity), we need to analyze what exactly it is, any interpretation needs to be proved in the symbolic context of the work. Art is not a riddle where there's only a correct answer. The author's intent need to be taken into consideration, but it can't reduce our reading, as if the author dictates its meaning to us and can charge us for other meanings we can give it in almost inquisitorial ways. For exemple: * Jane Austen can be interpreted as a proto-feminist in how the theme of gender dynamics appears in her novels, but at the same time conservatives tend to read her as an exercise in aristotelian ethics, using Aristotle's _Nicomachean Ethics_ as a interpretive north; * English, American and Canadian criticism like T.S. Eliot and Northrop Frye interpreted Blake as a devout Christian poet, but the french like the Surrealists (Breton, Aragon, Soupault, Artaud) read Blake as a dark and rebellious romantic of a luciferian consciousness who sings a song of absolute freedom of any metaphysical norm; * Louis Ferdinand Céline was a Nazi who wrote three antisemitic pamphlets in France during the german occupation in late 30s, but that didn't stop leftists literary critics to interpret progressive themes in Céline's work, like anti-war, anti-militarism, anti-capitalism, anti-imperialism, anti-industrialism etc; * Shakespeare wrote _The Merchant Of Venice_ to be a comedy, but now, after Holocaust, we tend to read and perform the play as a tragedy or a problem play; * Alan Moore is a leftist who wrote Rorschach to be a satire of the fascist mindset that pervades vigilantist ideas (Batman, Question), but that didn't stop some people from interpreting Rorschach as the only truly moral voice of the story; * Christian theologians in the Middle Ages were totally aware of the paganism of Homer, Hesiod, Virgil and Ovid, but that didn't stop them from trying to identify early Christian symbols in the works of those poets; * Scherazade's story in _One Thousand and One Nights_ can be interpreted both as a feminist tale of female autonomy and emancipation and as a misogynistic tale the only affirms the patriarchy by the end; The problem of interpretation is much more complicated than we (or the internet) think.

[@ATRStormUnit]

And this is why Dungeon Meshi and and Frieren were the best fantasy series recently.

[@poenpotzu2865]

Ah yes the two fantasy series that combines slice of life and existential dread in a somber yet heartwarming tone

[@CarrotConsumer]

Fantasy anime certainly has its own problem with trend chasing.

[@The7thDraconian]

​​@@CarrotConsumerHey you want another show about some dude getting hit by a truck and then getting sent to a world where he's super strong and everyone wants to suck his dick? Course you do, here's twelve of the damn things every season.

[@stargazer5780]

not even close

[@andyb1169]

​@@CarrotConsumeroh boy. Another isieki power fantasy. Havent seen 300 of those this week.

[@mrink8822]

Succession genuinely feels like the closest we've gotten to something that captures the same feelings as Game of Thrones, especially the family dynamics

[@raphaelzakhm7310]

Exactly! I love fantasy for the sake of fantasy, but what made GoT special was not the fantasy genre itself

[@batsaubattler3200]

Agreed

[@youngnat]

The Roys are basically Lannisters, maybe all of them actually.

[@batsaubattler3200]

@@mrink8822 they literally wrote Shakespeare in a modern day setting.

[@mrink8822]

@batsaubattler3200 Game of Thrones is inspired to Shakespeare

[@wirilome]

To me, the most insane way wheel of time tried to become more grimdark was in creating a wife for Perrin to brutally (accidentally) murder... thereby either forcing a focus from his character on grief/guilt for an extensive period of time, or by making Perrin move on instantly and making him seem kinda sociopathic. Let alone all the unfortunate implications of making the character they cast with a black man succumb to a violent rage and killing his white wife while in it...

[@AnnaCurser]

"Why are you grabbling with ghosts?" "How could I not? I sleep on a graveyard."

[@Zorak_97]

The funny thing is: Martin is not cynical, even though his universe is violent and morally complicated. Martin is idealistic and optimistic just as much Tolkien was, with then difference that Tolkien's optimism was rooted in his Christianity, whereas Martin's optimism is secular and progressive. He is the Victor Hugo of fantasy, _A Song Of Ice And Fire_ is _Les Miserables_ with swords and dragons. Victor Hugo, obviously, was a much better writer, but quality of the writing is not what I'm talking about. If people want a epic story truly filled with cynicism, I recommend Flaubert's _Salammbô_ (1862). Martin's attempt to break away from Tolkien's template is still a form of imitation, Blooms says that if you do the exact opposite of what came before, you're still mirroring it. We can make a whole analysis of Martin-Tolkien using Bloom's book.

[@vee1766]

Y'all are acting like Martin invented this type of fantasy and is the only one writing it. It's ridiculous. There has been tons of fantasy books written in this style in the last 25 years, it has nothing to do with copying it's simply a genre. The writers of Rings Of Power aren't "copying Game Of Thrones" they are just writing more modern fantasy, and i really don't see the problem with it ?

[@Zorak_97]

@@vee1766 what the fuck are you talking about? I didn't say any of that.

[@adamoutrage6597]

Egwene was definitely affected by her experience with the collar throughout the book series. Not as much as Theon sure but his torture lasted longer and was more brutal.

[@realNom2mooncow]

I thought that the Egwene plotline was pretty well handled in the show because that's how it felt to read: I was terrified of the Seanchen for the rest of the series because of that, always a looming threat in the back of my mind. Also I think that Egwene did change a lot after the book 2 torture, even if she went back to adventuring. After that she had a real edge to her that only built throughout the series and it made her a really compelling character in my opinion.

[@aruak321]

I agree. That experience when she was captured by the Seanchan fundamentally altered her character from that point on and that hardening of personality made her into a more interesting character.

[@blaubeer8039]

I am very curious what HBO themselves (the literal creators of og game of thrones and all its genre-defining aspects) will do with the upcoming hedge knight series in terms of tone/'cloning got'. Because while being a GRRM/Westeros story, those novellas notably aren't dark/gritty "look at us we're so adult" at all (I knowthat always was kind of a misadaptation with GoT, but the light/whimsical is much much more significant with D&E). I mean, it's still adult, but adult stories are allowed to be light and fun... There is a real danger they "clone themselves" too much and thus miss the vibe of the material, a bit like the Hobbit trilogy cloned lotr too much as action-fest which the Hobbit just isn't. But let's wait and see.

[@vee1766]

I fail to see how writing dark/gritty fantasy is automatically "copying Game Of Thrones". It's a common genre in fantasy litterature and has been for more than 20 years. Martin doesn't own this genre, there has been tons of successful dark/gritty fantasy books and nobody accuses them of being "Game Of Thrones" clones. Only tourists who don't know shit about fantasy but act like experts would accuse a gritty fantasy to "copy Game Of Thrones".

[@MrJJ86]

I got inspired by a book to always bring a towel. Its the first thing i pack. I also fear the day the dolphins leave.

[@Tacom4ster]

Avatar the Last Airbender is not GoT, it's philosophically the opposite with youthful optimism of the young fixing the world the adults broke, Im tired of people comparing the two

[@NA-ys9ib]

Yeah I don't remember anyone getting raped in Avatar lmao

[@realtalk13]

the entire point of its inclusion in the vid is to demonstrate that big corpos are actively trying to meld the two, despite their fundamental differences, to the detriment to the adaptations that are birthed from the union. the comparison is made in this vid because it was actively courted.

[@aedrianys]

But that's the same in ASOIAF my friend. The main characters are all children trying to fix the broken world they see adults leave them in real time.

[@dilwitchspahlin4761]

The Netflix series is clearly trying to copy GOT’s success. The showrunners literally admitted it themselves. Stop deluding yourself

[@acoupleofschoes]

@@aedrianys Daenerys is the only character maybe trying to "fix a broken world" by ending slavery. And Jon is just trying to survive the apocalypse by getting people to stop seeing the Wildlings as savages. No one else is doing anything so aspirationally altruistic.

[@ZachariahWest]

How can Amazon shows look SO cheap yet have such astronomical budgets?

[@TKR001]

It's when you throw millions at production without a real vision. Money can't create something... people can.

[@Adurnis]

Part of it is that camera technology has gotten a lot better, so it's way easier to see the detail on costumes and tell that they're fake. But shows have also weirdly leaned into very clean lines and materials in a way that makes their worlds not feel "lived in."

[@thylionheart]

tbh I think a big thing is lighting. there's this lack of natural or atmospheric lighting (like candles) that give the scenes depth; everything looks so clear and bright and sterile

[@Eprosis]

@@thylionheart This is a big one. Modern creatives are terrified of intentional lighting for some reason.

[@dodojesus4529]

Besides that goofy ass scene with the elven cavalry entirely in daylight with a clear line of darkness ​@@Eprosis

[@colonel__klink7548]

One of the saddest thing about the game of thornsification of Avatar is that it's a corruption of what Avatar the Last Airbender really was.... A discussion on how to be a man (and well how to be an adult in general.) Iroh standing in contrast to Ozai with the main characters each struggling with their own personal failings and challenges reaching adulthood. Zuko being the most clear example, trying to emulate Ozai and make him happy only brought him pain and sorrow which is why Iroh turned his back on all of it. Ang being the opposite problem of fear of confrontation and the lack of discipline to maintain focus (which is why he lost his first fire bending teacher.)

[@gravitycat001]

I've been missing your videos. I'm glad the long time has been spent making something of quality. It's giving me a bit to think about as a creative.

[@akinlikesfilms960]

feel like this could be a great conversation about the whole idea of "stealing like an artist" and where people find inspiration

[@HeribertoEstolano]

32:20 You can ALSO look at A Song of Ice and Fire as "What if It was a historical political plot, but in a Fantasy World" since Martin also admittedly was inspired by Maurice Druon's work "The Accursed Kings" series.

[@vee1766]

Which is a whole genre in itself in fantasy and is not limited to GRR Martin. Accusing any gritty/political fantasy to be a "Game Of Throne" is just idiotic, they just in the same genre. It's like dismissing Cyberpunk Edgerunner because "it's imitating Blade Runner", it's dumb.

[@patricksullivan6988]

If a "next Game of Thrones" must be anointed, I'd point to Succession as the worthiest, uh, successor.

[@Domefossil]

It's kind of looping back round the other way because of all of the GoT clones; I'm getting tired of 'morally grey' characters. Bring back characters that are good people, that do right and are moral people who strive to fight in a world of shit, that give stories hope through their struggle. Characters like Zack Fair from Final Fantasy, or Guts from Berserk, or Hercules from Disney.

[@saraa.4295]

Agree.. I mean..i like morally grey characters, they are great. But sometimes i like to just dream of a better world where good is good!!

[@sashasemennikov157]

Since when Guts is not morally grey? Yes he fights evil. But god forbid an honest guardsmen to stand between him and Griffith. The guardsmen would be obliterated from the existence in a moment

[@uriel7395]

​@@sashasemennikov157 That's only really true of the black swordsman arc (where he does exactly that) and early in the conviction arc. Until recently, Guts has been pretty calm and level headed for quite a while

[@scribe951]

Haven't even watched the video but I'm so so happy to see you back!

[@tnttiger3079]

I think Tolkien is actually a great straightforward example of the sixth category- so many these days read Beowulf or the Eddas and think, 'Holy hell! This is just like Tolkien!'- he has transcended his inspirations

[@kilgore_trout_37]

This was an incredible script! I learned so much and laughed a lot, looking forward to everything you have planned. :)

[@achimney29]

The public craves a Game of thrones style remake of Boyz n the hood

[@comradetrashpanda8777]

The Wire?

[@Tommedian]

The fact you didn’t name this video “Game of Clones” is a massive missed opportunity

[@BioshadowX]

Corporations don't care if it's new. They would re-release Game of Thrones 1:1 if they could.

[@thekiss2083]

At 30:31 I heard "Eragon" instead of "Aragorn" and it triggered my middle-school fantasy PTSD from 20 years ago

[@Squall17x]

1. moral ambiquity 2. Multiple characters 3. Multiple storylines 4. A major emphasis on the world politics 5. Lots of dialogue scenes 6. Sex and/or violence 7. Unexpected character deaths! Mix in a bowl and put in oven, let it cook for 60 min per episode, remove and oh no you forgot the main ingredient: identity of its own

[@rootbeerdumdum]

This is the kind of video / video essay that makes me miss being in grad school for literature. Had to give it up but miss it a lot.

[@thomasciuffreda8783]

I agree with Bloom; an artist must respect the past, but not slavishly follow it, and he must recognize his own worth, his own ideas, without being arrogant enough to believe that he is an Original Thinker who is above the geniuses of the past. This is why I like the WoT books, they were made out of a love of Tolkien, but was also it's own thing the more you get into the series. It' also why I *HATE* the show, which turns the story into something it's not.in order to replicate GoT's success.

[@jonmatwe5924]

Good to see you post to KZbin again! I was starting to think you didn't work here anymore. Welcome back!

[@jstarwars360]

What you described is nothing new. Big film comes along, it gets duplicated, and then a new thing comes along. Narnia really wanted to be the next Lord of the Rings with a ton of emphasis on the big epic battles. Likewise, The Giver played more like Hunger Games with a lot more emphasis on taking down the evil leaders. Often these things are shrugged at the time but reappraised once the trend has died down and people are nostalgic for it.

[@tjjordan4207]

Nothing else can be "the next Game of Thrones" because there can only be one Game of Thrones. Even Lord of the Rings and Avatar: The Last Airbender are impossible to replicate because they are the examples of the lightning in a bottle. A more recent example was the release of "The Boy & The Heron" back in December of 2023, the most likely final Hayao Miyazaki film. Within the context of the story, it is highly implied that Miyazaki is trying to tell us that no one can replace him when it comes to his filming style and creative mind because there can be only one Miyazaki. In fact, it would be unfair to force such a legacy and expectation onto someone else to continue his work, because everyone is different and has their own style. And in the world of entertainment, variety is what keeps the creativity and excitement alive. But more importantly, what I've learned from all of this is everything has a beginning, middle, and end.

[@barbarayhivjaneahl3198]

The political intrigue that everyone complained about in the Prequels trilogy is in every fantasy show. Ironic.

[@IsaacV24]

Just goes to show how poorly done the political aspects were in the prequel trilogy.

[@motherplayer]

@@IsaacV24 It was indeed a lot easier to use a black-and-white model of politics for a three film series than it was doing a more complicated one for the same amount since it wouldn't have the time to flesh that out proper. I only came to like and understand the politics from the media AROUND the prequel films rather than the films themselves, as opposed to the politics of the original trilogy which works no matter which way it was done.

[@katakesh8566]

​@@IsaacV24so poorly done that the franchise was printing money and getting new fans. Also. Which part was done poorly. I suspect your answer because you're a clone. But let's pretend you can form an original thought What 'exactly' was wrong w/ the politics? List specifics. Be detailed. Show you can articulate an opinion

[@WWFanatic0]

Was thinking the other day if the channel was "done" or if he'd gotten too busy with life as it was over a year since last upload. Then we get this beautiful work...

[@Curarkaig]

We don’t need a “next Game of Thrones” but I am all for a sword and sorcery revival. Let’s get a tv series based on the Prism Pentad series, or maybe a Beastmaster trilogy.

[@idab9958]

I was just wondering what happened to this channel! Welcome back!

[@John-uh5et]

The Expanse is probably as close to Game of Thrones as I’ve seen, in a good way. It’s an ensemble cast of characters from wildly different backgrounds, all navigating a treacherous political landscape. War looms on the horizon, and there’s a mysterious alien threat that threatens to destroy it all. So yeah, Game of Thrones in space, except not narratively disappointing.

[@090giver090]

Because the origianl material *was already wrintten this way!* So adapting it "the GoT way" was not far from the source material so all these characters and politics looked organic to the setting. On the other hand, trying to adapt a medieval chronicle-esque set of legends, a young-adult adventure story and a philosophical inquiry into "grounded and gritty tale of politics, backstabbing and suffering" is doomed to fail from the very beginning.

[@johnkim1555]

You know, I forgot about Season 8 for a while. I was happy. I was content. Now I'm angry. Screw you. But still, good video.

[@EvelynNdenial]

the bit about GoT being 5 years ago. supposedly we're in an age where everything is changing extremely quickly with technology advancing so fast and all, but it FEELS like we've been kinda stuck for the past decade. things change fast sure but its always just new ways to do the exact same shit, that we're culturally just spinning our tires and only sinking deeper in the mud. things get faster and faster and we go nowhere.

[@vee1766]

Or it's simply a genre in fantasy that has existed for more than 20 years and has nothing to do with Game Of Thrones. Which you would know if you ever opened a fantasy book. It's like accusing any cyberpunk show/movie to copy Blade Runner, it's idiotic.

[@leostarrs-cunningham8576]

This was a huge amount of fun, so thank you. I'm really looking forward to see where you go next man!

[@masonthib94]

Changing an original thing to be like GoT = bad Changing GoT to make something original = good

[@Luke-kq6kj]

Loved your background. Reminded me of a tool desk in The Last of Us I & II.

[@sabrinagibby4167]

Love that at 6:48, calling it the Swerve is a swerve ❤

[@whitherwhence]

Thrame of Glones 👍

[@pimtooler6370]

Attack of the Glones

[@theorixlux]

Revenge of the thrones

[@Josh_Quillan]

Glame of Thrones? Game of Thlrones?

[@whitherwhence]

@@Josh_Quillan gthame of rlones

[@whitherwhence]

@@Josh_Quillan (the play on words here isn't supposed to be coherent, I was going for nonsensical)

[@SolomonMars]

yes! so many shows post GoT took away the wrong lessons. Number 1. Body count. Every show seems to think killing characters left and right is one of the things that made the show good, but it was the investment in the characters long term and then having them dying after said investment that resonated with viewers. meaningless deaths are meaningless.

[@davidharper238]

Fascinating! Great video, gotta finish it later though

[@christopherrohlf1975]

Holy shit! A year later and he's back!

[@mxvega1097]

Scene: Hollywood writers' room, everyone studies Bloom, discusses, resolves to pursue excellence in writing. Now THAT'S fantasy.

[@tamalchakraborty5346]

Well, house of the dragon exists at this point, and I am happy. Yeah, the season 2 ending gave Season 8 GoT vibes, but well...

[@blackfox4138]

I mean if we're talking influence: A Song of Ice and Fire is basically just Dune x Lord of the Rings. Someday a new thing will appear that'll be Game of Thrones x Some other piece of media. And so on and so forth.

[@rayfwu]

The original Game of Thrones was Battlestar Galactica and that came and went loong before the GOT show was a thing. (The novels are a different thing)

[@sagewaterdragon]

I'm surprised that you didn't bring up 3 Body Problem, Netflix's big "Thrones clone" gamble that brought back the people that made Thrones. I'm not sure how much there is talk about re: 3BP until the later seasons where the sci-fi elements really blossom, but they're some of my favorite books and I've been really happy with the adaptation so far, even if it's required reconfiguring huge swaths of the story to work for the Thrones audience.

[@TheDarkLordOchinchin]

Makes me think of Tarkovsky's Solaris and how Stanisław Lem was furious over alterations. Tarkovsky could've stayed more faithful to the source, but then he wouldn't have contributed as much to sci-fi, beacuse the major takeaways from the movie would have sayed the same.

[@krisjustbegun9740]

I say this in the most respectful way possible. You look distractingly good in this video. Had to listen like a podcast so I could actually focus on your analysis 😄. Great work as always.

[@ahabicher]

Funny how difficult it is to tell the shows apart on the visual level. Only Aang has a particular look & feel, everyone else has firelit darkness and slanted sunlight from one side making shadows and people wearing brown a lot

[@Eaglebaby331]

the funny part is the Duo that adapting the Book rush toward ending because they want work on Star war project, but star war project they work on is not even heard ever since the announcement

[@stefansauvageonwhat-a-twis1369]

If misunderstanding of the originals leads to great art then surely Zack Snyder is the greatest just a bit of a jest there for y'all

[@Khilkhameth]

I really do miss show openings where the cast all turn and smile at the camera one at a time.

[@AirLancer]

It takes a lot to make a stew...

[@cpl.m9645]

Omg, 1 million % agree with maps in the title screen.

[@vishuprathikanti9352]

It's been some time, I forgot how great this channel was 😊

[@kairaine]

Great video!! I did wish you would have discussed where the One Piece Live Action show fits into the post-GOT fantasy show landscape!

[@DimaShortPlay]

It's like a long episode of Every frame is a painting

[@jvgreendarmok]

19:57 "Not trying to be funny... not trying to get a laugh... I don't want anyone to have the worst day at their job... but..."

[@Arkholt2]

This has extended to video games, too. Final Fantasy 16 was explicitly a Thrones Clone, by the admission of its developers. Speaking of anti-Tolkiens and the Return of the Dead, I remember back in 2019 there was talk of an Elric of Melniboné show in development. Not sure if that ever actually went anywhere, but the author Michael Moorcock is decidedly anti-Tolkien, and has been an inspiration for a lot of the grimdark fantasy that we see, including I imagine A Song of Ice and Fire. If the series ever does actually get made, I'm sure there will be comparisons to Game of Thrones, even though it was a precursor.

[@railcatcher2]

Thrones Clones...😅the current streaming landscape in a nutshell.

[@parkmannate4154]

Wheel of Time is better as a show than it was as a book. His Dark Materials was also excellent television. I don't mind them throwing out 50 shows to get 2 I enjoy; its not my money!

[@TheMe9595]

If you listen to the audiobook for The Eye of the World, there is an interview with Jordan at the end where he talks about how he wanted to swerve away from Tolkien. I also had a discussion with a friend who had just read The Eye of the World and he asked me if the book was inspired by Harry Potter.

[@dirojas1722]

So happy to have an upload again

[@VirtualBoy500]

"Game of Clones" It was right there. Missed opportunity.

[@lazyhammerwieldingpenguin2247]

Sage is breaking down a bad adaptation of ATLA; how nostalgic.

[@abelreyes9150]

This kinda reminded on how 300 influenced action movies for a while. So much that when the sequel came out many years later, it was not as impressive given the oversaturation of the 300 style.

[@rmsgrey]

Write because you have something to say. Learn from those who went before you, but tell your own story, the way you think it should be told, without concerning yourself whether, or how, it's similar to others. Free yourself of the desire to avoid comparison and of the desire to win a comparison and escape the suffering those desires bring.

[@joshcowart2446]

I’ll pushback on the idea that egwene is collared and then just goes back to normal. First off she wasn’t collared for long. Like others she wasn’t broken. It shows aes sedai who have been collared for long periods. Some break down from fear at the thought of being collared again. Others they can’t rescue because they’re so broken they would turn them in. Egwene regularly feels the collar on her neck and hates them. She loses composure anytime seanchan is mentioned. She even attacks a random group right after because of this fear even though it wasn’t the same people who collared her. Did they spend chapter after chapter breaking down her ptsd, no but there was so much they couldn’t

[@moowheel]

Great analysis!

[@aspacelex]

As a huge Witcher book fan I'm really upset the Netflix show doesn't consist primarily of discussions of who gets to r-word Ciri and elaborations on their reason for wanting to do that.

[@LB030377]

Given that the TV series ended so poorly and Martin may never finish the book series, making clones is not something I want to discourage. There have been instances when the "rip off" was , if not better, as good as the source.

[@thewhitewolf58]

What bothers me is that everyone wants to copy and paste the king while knowing only it's loudest elements. While in reality what sets it apart is having confidence in it's own material to make an interesting story.

[@GeraltOfArabia]

The only show with competent writing is The Boys. Fantastic character writing with intriguing plot and amazing acting. Eric Kripke, just like GRRM, knows how to write a full story and write it well. I would want to see him venture into writing literature, just like GRRM. But he doesn't need it. He already proved himself and I'd like to think many productions studios would invest in him to run big projects in the future.