Game Theory: I Fixed Zelda's BROKEN Timeline!

[@stefanbergung5514]

Nintendo: How the timeline looks is up to your imagination. Fandom: Hyrule Warriors is cannon then! Nintendo: No

[@RyanMorgan-i9r]

Real

[@Luzi-chan]

hyrule warriors couldve fixed everything....

[@Willimarus]

​@@Luzi-chanIf we ignore the contradictions between Hyrule Warriors and mainly Twilight Princess, then it could. Though under the eyes of this theory, there can be a different version of Hyrule Warriors made from the timelines that doesn't do this and ties the main storylines to Breath of The Wild; plus of course needing to still be combined unlike the ending.

[@mr.m1785]

Huh. It'd be interesting to have Hyrule Warriors be canon. (Haven't seen the video yet) But it is worth noting, while there is some consistency to the game maps in a lot of 3d LoZ games, and separately, the main chunk of the downfall timeline, Hyrule Warriors's map doesn't really line up with what we have from those games.

[@CarterInosencio]

HYRULE WARRIORS IS THE ONE GAME THAT ACTUALLY FIXES *EVERYTHING* and then Nintendo was just like, “Nah” that one was fake

[@cofagrigusfan24]

funny that you brought up Hyrule Warriors in the beginning and split timelines later on cause the spin-off set in the BotW timeline, Age of Calamity is also a split timeline, all thanks to a cute little egg-robot

[@Tyler-q3k]

Again, they should either reboot the series, or go full multiverse, because making a fun game, AND fitting in into a timeline, is clearly too much.

[@EvaHoshizora]

@@Tyler-q3k BotW is technically a reboot, but the fans can't really accept that lol

[@Tyler-q3k]

@EvaHoshizora and for real, if they refined the issues with the inventory and difficulty mechanics, BOTW would bexa good blueprint for future games. (= [ sorry, I just REALLY enjoyed BOTW and TOTK, we are in the peak age of gaming, and I'm liking it. ]

[@xtrem5428]

Even more when he specifically said what if Link did beat Calamity Gannon? That's the exact story of Age of Calamity!

[@xtrem5428]

@@EvaHoshizora Honestly yeah. I'm fine with the BotW timeline being completely separated.

[@crispybacon-1663]

Two problems I see with this. Demise and Ganondorf are two separate entities, Ganondorf being a manifestation of Demise’s curse that he makes at the end of SS after being defeated. The master sword is also created during the events of SS, if they had succeeded in the imprisoning war then they would have no need in creating a master sword in that timeline. It’s very clear that Skyward Sword is THE BEGINNING of the timeline because it’s before the creation of Hyrule, the master sword, and Demise’s curse which manifests the rest of the franchise’s villains. And Demise and Ganondorf “looking the same” is not solid enough evidence to wipe away the other issues with the theory. My personal theory is that after all three timelines go into their own era’s of decline, they are fused together. This process destroys the kingdom of Hyrule and the Zonai are sent down to help the hylians rebuild and regain their culture, and the reincarnation systems still remain yada yada. Meaning the Hylrule in TOTK and BOTW are different than the one in the other games, this has also already happened before in PH where the found New Hyrule.

[@MerabuHalcyon]

This ^ BotW and TotK take place SO far in the future after a destructive convergence that Hyrule is refounded yet again, with ruins and remnants of the past scattered about. With a different Imprisoning War and no Zelda games happen between the two that have Ganondorf as the villain because he's still alive and therefore unable to be reincarnated.

[@portershepherd2656]

Wait, why are Ganondorf and Demise separate entities? If they weren't, it would explain everything. The Ganondorf that Rauru fails to seal IS Demise, and that would solve it. Forgive me if I'm wrong, but the curse wouldn't even matter, because it's Rauru that fails and it has nothing to do with link or Zelda.

[@portershepherd2656]

And it's kind of lame, but the rito and zora being there would have just been products of evolution, and had Rauru sealed ganon, they would have survived, and had Rauru failed, hylians would have been lifted to the sky, with Ganondorf killing anything left.

[@crispybacon-1663]

@@portershepherd2656 yes but them looking the same and convenience are not grounded claims that can also be used to retcon consistently substantial evidence from the other games. It has everything to do with Link and Zelda because why or how would they exist in this alternate timeline if Demise was sealed and Hylia never created the spirit of the hero, the original zelda with her blood, and the goddess sword which turns into the master sword? And how would they be thrown into a cycle of reincarnation with demise’s curse? It’s not only about ganondorf and demise but about all the implications that this placement would create, SS just has too many origins for it not to take place in the beginning.

[@sakbromely]

I figured it would have been a wish that joined the timelines. I mean ALBW established that the triforce was powerful enough to either create or re-create another triforce. Why wouldn't it be strong enough to merge the worlds together?

[@trappex1170]

One thing I noticed about Ganon needing to be slain in order for new reincarnations to occur--he technically WAS killed during the imprisoning war. In the opening scene of TOTK when Rauru's hand falls off Ganon, the first thing heard after is a heart beat, indicating that the seal Rauru placed on him stopped his heart, causing him to be considered "dead' until the seal was broken. This would technically allow for this version of Ganon to be underneath hyrule castle for the whole timeline while other reincarnations existed.

[@Phantom-ev]

I highly recommend zeltik who does zelda lore and discuss the timeline and theories and one video is of going over the timeline in 15 minutes but he described it that for some the timeliness dur to it being flooded or the downfall hyrule was gone and many many years later the zonal shows up and reestablish hyrule and in a interveiew it was mentioned that botw and totk takes place so far into the timeline that all the other games in canon are considered myths storys legends at that point of the timeline

[@ratsandwich8316]

This is a good theory except there’s one key point that makes it impossible, ganondorf is the reincarnation of demise, even though totk’s ganondorf looks like demise, demise already has a somewhat fleshout backstory on how he came from the gods meaning that the totk ganondorf couldn’t exist before skyward sword.

[@tonysonic456]

Perhaps in this alternate timeline, Demise is not called Demise. After all, Skyward Sword states that Demise's first appearance came from below the ground. Perhaps, the name Demise was given to him by the current inhabitants of the world before he was sealed, and perhaps Ganondorf was his original name before he adopted the mantle. It would actually make a lot of sense why Ganondorf in the following timelines is Demise's reincarnation. He shares his original name, and Demise is using him to keep his influence alive.

[@Finnishmanni]

@@tonysonic456 But still Demise was a *demon* not a male gerudo. He is his own being, he is not something that would have naturally lived on earth. This new guy is clearly a reincarnated hatred of the original demon king, making that guy just another ganondorf.

[@tonysonic456]

@@Finnishmanni Then maybe this original Ganondorf was a vessel for the Demon King, and the Demise we see in Skyward Sword is his true form mixed with elements of his original vessel.

[@edvance1030]

I still prefer the "Fused Timeline" theory. I know the original Hyrule Warriors is not canon, but there could still be some event that caused the timelines to fuse together into a single one. That's what makes the most sense to me.

[@ratsandwich8316]

@@tonysonic456I agree with you, that is possible but there are more things that make this theory invalid, in the timeline were the sages succeeded to imprison ganondorf then demises curse would never happened so the botw link wouldn’t have the spirt of the hero meaning he wouldn’t be able to use the master sword and speaking of the master sword in the new games the master sword speaks to Zelda in the words of Fi which can’t happen with the events of skyward sword, aswell the sword being turned into the master sword from its original goddess sword with the sacred flames can’t happen unless skyward happens

[@Ked7]

If I had a nickel for every Zelda timeline video from game theory… … I would be poorer than if I placed my money on fnaf.

[@LuckyNumber39]

You don't say. But hey, that's still three nickels, five if we count Link is Dead and Link is Not the Hero

[@Automobile7777]

If I had a nickel, I would have money

[@dejaypage1575]

Four. You’d have four

[@the_fedy2]

@@dejaypage1575 yea

[@Weirdfeatherdog]

Which isn’t a lot, but it’s funny that it happened four times

[@spencermailhoit4396]

A big problem I have with this theory is there already being a spot in hyrule called the breach of demise, suggesting that it’s in the same timeline continuity as skyward sword. Also Ganon is willed into existence through Demises curse.

[@CardinalRed925]

There's also the fact that the Goddess Sword was forged into the Master Sword during the events of Skyward Sword. The Master Sword can't exist without Skyward Sword having happened.

[@CaffeeNated]

@@CardinalRed925 which obviously means that the mastersword we see in this theroy's surposed timeline is diffrent from the one we see in the main timeline, there can be more then one reason for the mastersword existing, as tom said there is a whole history between the events of the past and future, who's to say that mr gannon didn't influence MORE gannons to appear and thus have the need to make the mastersword it would explain why the mastersword runs out of power since it dosen't do that in the cannon timeline

[@Genrevideos]

Something also worth mentioning is that in BOTW Link can discover archeological and paleontological artifacts that call attention to previous games especially when some of those games are from the branching timelines. For example, there is an entire side quest where Link is tasked with finding skeletal remains of giant beast. Link is tasked with getting pictures of them. One of them was referenced to possibly be the Great Wind Fish from Link’s Awakening….

[@joesunday199]

@@Genrevideos Another skeleton is the one from Skyward Sword.

[@Parallelocam]

I'm not gonna lie, Tom is not nearly as good at this as Mat was. I'm willing to continue to give him a shot but there's been a lot of really bad theory vids since he took over. That last FNAF one had so many loose connections it was nauseating

[@Channeloftheyars]

1:56 Only game Theory would make a call back to a commercial from 1988

[@greenberrygk]

“It’s up to the players imagination” Game theory: short circuits

[@YannickJur]

Ah yes, the grand pappy of the FNAF Timeline. If you think something's broken, there's always one thing more broken to return to.

[@Tyler-q3k]

Honestly, I think they should either switch to an episodic format, or go full multiverse, because making a good game, AND placing it in a definitive timeline is a large order.

[@blixk3y]

😭😭 nah forreal, this is the broken timeline final boss.

[@greygaston1263]

Amen!

[@IncognitoActivado]

Hyrule Warriors IS canon, and the Fused Timeline is canon because makes sense, so not really.

[@urnuste]

It’s only broken with BOTW and TOTK

[@sllentprincess]

18:25 oh hey that's my tweet! 🩵

[@bernadettepacheca2291]

Nice

[@Cheeserio]

Cheese

[@abdullahalmansoori4489]

​@Cheeserio oh my god it's my favorite pokemon

[@m-yday]

I love that tweet

[@TheBreadPirate]

Hey! Funny seeing you here Bea.

[@manueljaramillo2520]

Alright the major problem with this "The Demise" timeline theory is the fact that Ganondorf exists specfically because of Demise himself. Demise curses the descendants of the Link and Zelda of Skyward Sword to always be in conflict with a reincarnation of his hatred, which is Ganondorf. So no, Totk Ganondorf does not lead to Demise in Skyward Sword because Demise is the whole reason all incarnations of Ganondorf exist in the first place.

[@RandAlThor9]

I agree, but demise does not curse link's descendants, he only curses those with the blood of the goddess and those with the spirit of the hero. Other than that, i agree with you.

[@kinggonder1167]

Maybe Denise used Ganondorf as a Vessel of sorts

[@RandAlThor9]

@@kinggonder1167 But there is no evidence to that.

[@joenoeb.forenscimus761]

Demise could just be the name the original Ganondorf took after getting that spirit stone. All Ganondorfs that followed would then just get the same name in the same way Links keeps poping out. So it could still work. Ganondorf becomes Demise, curses every Link and Zelda that follows and new Ganondorfs are born to haunt them forevermore. In fact it makes some sense, it's always been Ganon(dorf), Link and Zelda. So who's to say the monster at the beginning of the chain wasn't also once a Ganondorf?

[@RandAlThor9]

@@joenoeb.forenscimus761 Don't you think that this is a bit of a stretch? Not even nintendo would make a retcon like this.

[@cartols.d0c]

I think it is necessary to tell you that both games take place after the events of Ocarina, due to the fact that Sido mentions the events in which Princess Ruto participated. Citing Link and Zelda from OOT.

[@popskull42]

I think they'll do a prequel to BotW that will handle what Hyrule Warriors did in a more traditional way. Some more story-driven way to scramble the timelines, basically.

[@sabreskywalker2561]

Or the third game (if there is one, to make the Botw and Totk duology a trilogy) might focus on this for it's story (a sequel instead of a prequel is what I mean) Though for that to work we probably wouldn't see the events except for flashbacks maybe. But Botw does set up for an advanced civilization within those 10,000 years. I think Nintendo hasn't revealed where in the timeline they are because they're building up to it and it'll be a big reveal.

[@LonelyCreap]

Before watching the video, my initial thought was "Thats a bold video Tom"

[@allverlife]

Me too! But he really did a great job sticking the landing on this one when he started talking about using a different way to split the timeline.

[@MrTripleM3]

Especially since there is already a perfect solution by BDG himself in his Unraveled episode about the Zelda Timeline.

[@oliz5063]

@@allverlifeno he did not 💀

[@Parallelocam]

@@allverlife I think Tom is a gentleman and a scholar but sticking the landing is not something he has been doing in any of the vids since Matt left

[@razzo2401]

I personally wasn’t satisfied with Matt’s Hyrule Warriors theory but I’m honestly not mad at this theory. Adding Hyrule Warriors to the timeline sorta felt like a cheap cop out but the main timeline being Rauru’s Failure is not a bad explanation.

[@casparfang]

Zeltik gonna crash out over this one💀 Edit: I’ve started my own imprisoning war in the comments

[@caleb.mcgregor]

Fr dude. Fr. It’s like team theorist didn’t even do research.

[@sky30p75]

I love Zeltik 🗣️🗣️🗣️

[@RandAlThor9]

@@caleb.mcgregor Ik even the ;ast zelda theory was bad. T_T

[@skylofter6840]

Genuinely game theory as a whole seems to be less about actual theories these days and more about releasing a video that will do well with audiences

[@linklink3069]

@@skylofter6840 I mean, they're more for entertainment than anything.

[@TheRTGGaming]

16:51 Huge note: in TOTK, at the Forgotten Temple. There is a map of Older Hyrule where it was flooded.

[@Diego-cd4lu]

Really?

[@IncognitoActivado]

ToK is NOT canon.

[@ThornyFox]

​@@IncognitoActivado did u know chrome still logs incognito activity?

[@IncognitoActivado]

@@ThornyFox chrome?

[@ThornyFox]

@@IncognitoActivado google

[@JusticeBlakeman]

I really enjoyed this video. When MatPat retired, I was super disappointed and thought that no one could replace him well, but seeing you give so much effort and enthusiasm into one of my most favorite series ever really lifted my spirits. Thank you for the fun video, and I love your narrating voice too.

[@reigjinokou7035]

My personal belief for why the Zora and Rito can exist simultaneously when one evolved from the other is the fact that there are 2 zoras, River (the monstrous ones usually found in the downfall line) and Sea (the pretty ones). The River Zora, having a lack of fresh water left the waters entirely as to avoid infringing on the Sea Zora's habitat. Or maybe evolving wings was easier than developing a resistance to salt or something. Yes, there are problems (Such as Medli being a descendant of a Sea Zora, but hey.)

[@StarlasAiko]

The Zora in OoT, TP and BotW are also River Zora. The River Zora evolved into Rito because they could not live in the sea water. (Although the Zora inTermina (MM) were native to sea water). The River Zora in the downfall timeline are most likely monstrous due to polution.

[@IncognitoActivado]

Pass; Hyrule Warriors IS canon, and the Fused Timeline is ALSO canon too.

[@ZACARIIA_143]

@@IncognitoActivado Omg why are you instigating fights in every reply section. ITS THEORY DISCUSSING IF YOU AINT GONNA BE RESPECTFUL AND DISCUSS THEORIES THAN GET OUT

[@ztsquid3000]

Here's my theory, does anybody remember back at Skyward Sword where Link kills Demise in both the past and the future? Well, I speculate that in the future, where demise was killed by the power of the triforce, it created the BotW/TotK timeline where everyone worships Hylia. But when Demise was killed in the past, it created the main timeline (the one we all grew up with) where everyone worships only the three goddesses of courage, wisdom, and power. What do you guys think? 🤔

[@almessasorrow4950]

The original Zelda was based on the bible as were a few after so those at least are easier to guess: •SS/Genesis was First •OOT/Enoch was Second •WW/Flood was Third •LA/The Whale •OOS/Plagues •OOA/Daniel I'm not going to make a list but the game inspirations were: •Bible •Lotr •Ghibli So there's a way of checking

[@Othadeu64]

🤔 interesting point… your line of thinking makes lots of sense

[@GODOFAWSOMENESS1]

Gannondorf is the reincarnation of Demise’s hatred not of Demise (just like how each Link isn’t the reincarnation of Link but is someone with the “hero’s spirit”) and every threat to Hyrule is the same thing. There are multiple tribes of Zora around the world so that means another tribe evolved into the Rito. Hyrule could also be refounded after it’s destruction because the curse is on the blood of the goddess.

[@josecorzo5517]

*Ganondorf

[@countcr33per]

Technically speaking that's only in the English translation, the original Japanese speech has Demise saying more or less that evil itself will always rise to oppose good, and he doesn't specifically mention anything about himself or his own hatred at all. In fact, in the original Japanese his name isn't even Demise, he isn't given a proper name, but he is always called The Bringer of Demise, it's his title, but not his name. There are plenty of other mistranslations throughout all the games, some of which change the lore quite a bit.

[@sandjgaez257]

Every Link save for the Toon Links are reincarnations of the same Link. The explanation I have heard is that in Japanese culture souls are more comparable to a flame, so the same flame can be spread to a new Link while the old one remains for a little longer (like the Hero's Shade).

[@keaton52257]

17:46 How can the land and sky be created if it already exists?

[@keaton52257]

You should’ve put the _first_ imprisoning war after creation, it would make so much more sense.

[@keaton52257]

Either that or fix your diagram, if that’s what you mean by “TLoZ TotK (history)” post The Era of the Goddess Hylia.

[@datCatInSunglasses]

Thing is that as many comments stated it is unlikely Ganon and the Hero's spirit can exist without Demise's curse, but also it has been said that BoTW/TotK happen long after the rest of the timeline, so long that said timeline is now just an "era of myth", which would mean that both games have to happen after the already existing timeline, and can't be an alternate timeline from it. My theory, tho it is quite simplistic, is simply that in the more than 10,000 years that separate the main timeline from those games Hyrule collapsed, was refounded (which is something that happened to civilisations irl, just look at how many times it happened to China) which explains why we have a story of Hyrule's founding that doesn't align to the one from Skyward Sword, and the imprisoning war is something different from the one after Ocarina, of which the name may have been borrowed to the original event, which is now part of this era of myth

[@nachos4256]

14:45 isnt Ganondorf a reincarnation of Demise? Cause he put a curse on Link at the end of Skyward Sword that would cause him to reincarnate again and again, and its thought to be as Ganondorf, meaning Ganondorf comes AFTER Demise. Not to mention that the Master Sword itself doesnt exist until Skyward Sword, where it's created from the Goddess Sword. Don't get me wrong, I like the theory, theres just too many holes in it to be able to be at the START of the timeline.

[@legendarymorrish777]

At least we're trying? 😅 I love this chaos😂

[@DanMeisterZ]

This...i was hoping he would explain this...he did not sadly...so kinda makes me sad. If you make things up, explain them to us instead of brushing it off

[@Ked7]

Demise was a title not a name.

[@DanMeisterZ]

@@Ked7 sure...but what about the "ganondorf" in front of him like in the theory. Is that Ganondorf, The Demise. And how does that work for later Ganondorfs?

[@Eranell]

What I could imagine is that the Totk Ganondorf is the original one and was mostly just a warlord while Demise had only just been defeated. So instead of coming up with his reincarnation, Demise observed this Ganondorf, seeing how powerful he was, in handling the combined strength of Zonai, Gorons, Zora, etc. all by himself before Rauru desperately seals Ganondorf away. Despite that Demise prepared this sealed away Ganondorf as his Avatar and uses him as a blueprint for the other incarnations of Ganondorf. The original GD was always sealed away deep underground and while Demise fills that one with his dark powers over centuries, enough to break a Mastersword with ease he puts some of his power into newly born Ganondorfs that are olny born very rarely to occasionally give conquering Hyrule a try and drain the Mastersword of its sealing power with every sealed away Ganondorf incarnation, unleashing the original Ganondorf filled with these centuries worth of dark powers to end it all. That's why the Mastersword broke so easily. It was drained and Ganondorf never was as powerful as then. And that's why the Mastersword also needed centuries embeded in dragon Zelda's head to accumulate enough light power to even have a chance against (timeline wise) OG Ganondorf. That's the only way I could explain it

[@nathanieltose7653]

Nintendo once said I believe that we know who founded Hyrule, but it's also a possibility that Hyrule could be refounded, so I think that all the games that have taken place is so far in the past that all records are just gone

[@Tyler-q3k]

Given how old Hyrule is at this point, I'm not surprised some stuff is lost in context.

[@breadbear19]

Hidemaro Fujibayashi said in an interview that it is possible that Hyrule was destroyed before the Zonai descended from the sky. And then was refounded by Rauru and Sonia

[@blackmark2899]

@@breadbear19 That's pretty much what I think. Old Hyrule was destroyed or abandoned for one reason or another and it was then refounded. How they got the same name of Hyrule? Dunno. Maybe they found an old plaque or document with the name on it or something but I think that there are just two Hyrule. Old Hyrule that has the older stories and timelines and the new Hyrule which is the BotW era.

[@IncognitoActivado]

"...also a possibility..." What?

[@IncognitoActivado]

@@breadbear19 In other words, he doesn't know.

[@masterofthe6969e]

*rage noises at how he says "hylia" and "hylian"*

[@merksad7910]

"Ocariner"

[@LaInspectora]

I had to put down my phone and walk away for a couple hours 🥲😤

[@Jeep-guy1]

How does one say hyrule correct but not hylia

[@NoahOMorainRush]

Be nice to him, he's Bri*ish

[@commandercorl1544]

seriously, has he even played the games?! it's not an accent thing either, because in many of the games, spoken lines have a british accent...

[@andrescarnederes2295]

I personally think that the past in TOTK happened long after all of the Zelda timelines and it's basically a refoundation of Hyrule. They don't recognize the name Link because he's never been referred to as "Link" in past games unless you name him that way. It's only until Breath of the Wild that he is officially named such. I believe that it's pretty clear that Nintendo intended for these games to be far future that the timeline wouldn't matter so that they could tell new stories. Just my opinion tho.

[@Nobody_247]

The way he pronounces Hylia/Hylian like bro I can't-😭

[@chexmixkitty]

Between him and Game Grumps...

[@ZACARIIA_143]

Same I say "high-lee-uh" and "high-lee-an" 😭

[@HoleFlat]

He's saying it like how they do in the games tho?

[@ZACARIIA_143]

@@HoleFlat i’m not trying to be rude but i genuinely have NO memory of it being pronounced that way, gotta be some massive mandala effect if it is 😭

[@HoleFlat]

@ZACARIIA_143 in totk and botw?

[@Kaylaisthebesttottaly]

Dev: Makes one small change in the storyline Game Theory: *Mental breakdown*

[@Nephew-2]

It's stated (Somewhere in an interview) that during the 10,000 years Hyrule is destroyed and then refounded and that all previous games are known as the era of the myth. Meaning that the 2nd imprisoning war could've gotten it's name from a Myth derived from Ocarina and a Link to the past. (It's not a fact it was just something one of the Dev's said.)

[@sadib100]

That's not stated. Stop making up stuff.

[@homerman76]

That's not entirely canon, that's just one developer's interpretation

[@Dav06_23]

One developer suggestion is way more valuable than no suggestion guys. Unless proven false, this IS the current explanation.

[@IncognitoActivado]

Nintendo sucks anyway, so whatever.

[@sadib100]

@@IncognitoActivado What a loser response.

[@Various_forms_of_Doormamu]

I always figured that BOTW and TOTK took place so far in the future that hyrule had fallen and been forgotten. Only to be re-founded by the Zonai and Hylian descendants.

[@DillonMaynard]

That's literally what the devs said

[@jacs515pr]

@@DillonMaynardYeah but then you get a lot of youtubers who just blantely ignore that statement just to hate like bro...the devs said it themselves.

[@trashpanda_t.t]

@@DillonMaynard they've only *implied* that that could be the case. as far as i'm aware they never stated anything definitive

[@IncognitoActivado]

No, not really; that's the reason why Hyrule Warriors IS canon, and the Fused Timeline ALWAYS going to be canon too.

[@IncognitoActivado]

@@DillonMaynard a.k.a. NOT CANON.

[@h3r0ofhyrule]

2:58 NOO! You were so close to the perfect pun! Should have been Nintendon’t

[@DarkLordArbitur]

Sega did that around 30 years ago and have rights to that pun

[@angelojohnson9441]

“The Tingle Series” sounds like one of those videos you hear about in middle school and try to watch at night but get busted by parental controls.

[@eeoo2beeboo]

Game theory: I FIXED the Zelda timeline!! Literally every other Zelda KZbinr: Get in line, buddy.

[@krvgames9258]

@@eeoo2beeboo What Game Theory should really do is leave the Legend of Zelda theories, especially those about the three timelines, ALONE! Zelda fans know a lot about the three timelines, and we know where they go. The most recent game is Echoes of Wisdom, and that is very likely in the Downfall Timeline, while BOTW and TOTK are in their own timeline. But why is Tom not doing a theory about Echoes of Wisdom? Is it because he hasn’t played the game?

[@eeoo2beeboo]

@@krvgames9258 They actually mention where EoW is on the timeline. They had a planned theory about where it was but then Nintendo confirmed it. It's in the video.

[@krvgames9258]

@@eeoo2beeboo This is news to me. But maybe they should’ve also made a theory on why Null is a very important villain, because Null’s introduction brings up some questions on what it has been doing in the other 2 timelines and even before the three timelines split.

[@eeoo2beeboo]

@@krvgames9258 Oh yeah, I suppose in the other 2 timelines they never actually defeated it, so logically it should just be running rampant in them. Maybe since the fallen timeline makes no sense it weakened the continuum, allowing Null to break through the Tris?

[@yamelserna9116]

This Mat Pat feels like another timeline Mat 😂

[@blue_phenix1364]

6:01 YOU DID NOT JUST PRONOUNCE IT LIKE THAT

[@radvelvetcakez]

LITERALLY. LIKE, HE EVEN SAYS HYRULE CORRECTLY BUT CAN'T SAY HYLIA??? IT LITERALLY SOUNDS THE SAME 😭😭😭

[@blue_phenix1364]

@ FOR REAL THATS WHAT I WAS THINKING 😂😂😂

[@scarletdawn2141]

He’s British leave him alone 😂

[@dovargorath2722]

Hill

[@annekathrinesonnichsen]

BOTW and TOTK are at the point where timelines don't matter anymore, they're so far in the future, that all timelines have become myth.

[@kw904-h3e]

THANK THE HEAVENS FOR YOU!!!! BEEN SAYING THIS!!!!

[@sodadeer]

1:39 "WHAT?!" Lol. I swear, the editor who made Tom's face saying "WHAT?!" and Santi eating food in one other video in Food Theory needs a raise lol. It looks so silly funny lol. I love it.

[@jontron1097]

Because of that little detail of the Zora evolving from a previous water race in skyward sword, I’d hazard to wager that the Zora also wouldn’t exist back in the past yet because it’s not like they immediately evolved right after Link and Zelda finished their journey in that game, it’s not possible

[@silvermoon2608]

I don’t think the Zora evolved from the Parella. That’s just conjecture. The Zora could have already been around, they just didn’t appear in Skyward Sword

[@Zekron88]

1:41 Wow I felt that one😂

[@savannahsmith1319]

Fr 😂 That 'WHAT?!' Was SO real 😂 Same with 11:49

[@TAGfrost]

I like the theory that it's far in the future of the adult timeline, that overtime the old Hyrule turned into the depths while the land above sprouted from the korok seeds and hyrule was restablished

[@Tyler-q3k]

Its kinda sad when you think about it, Hyrule has seen so much conflict, that a lot of the past is lost, and each version of Link and Zelda are forced to deal with the mistakes of their predecessors, if they ever end the Zelda franchise, I hope the guy just gets to chill for once.

[@nworder4life]

The adult timeline has an entire brand new continent.

[@HE4VAN1Y]

I need a dandy’s world theory now… PLEASE 🙏 🙏🙏

[@hologaster]

0:31 But it's an intimidating challenge to say the least. Well, I don't think this is much of a challenge as you dealt with FNAF timeline!

[@eddog6666]

One slight problem that bust that theory. The creator said this: “ Breath of the Wild and Tears of the Kingdom defiantly takes place after the events of skyward sword. Including the past”

[@Insertia_Nameia]

Exactly. Demise was the first. Ganondorf, all of them, come after. It's why they look similar but not exactly the same.

[@Yamartim]

Nope, they never said the past does

[@Bugattiboy912]

Yes. Nintendo were very defiant in their placement of BotW and TotK in the timeline.

[@VeritabIlIti]

Tbf, at an official event Nintendo also said that BotW and TotK are completely separate, soooo

[@IcyAuron]

Pretty sure you guys're trying to say definite and not "defiant."

[@hiddenscorpiusXI]

Problem with that solution at the end is that, AS YOU ALREADY STATED, the events in Skyward Sword happened before the Past Events from Tears of the Kingdom.

[@BoneyOfficialooo]

It is broken, again Me:does it matter though? Yes it does, I’m gonna do a 18 minute fricking talk about it. Me:What. I’m serious, Me:WHAT-

[@werewolfplaysyt1357]

The fire burning in theorists heart when he sees timeline broken:

[@Olivia_Daoudi]

Me

[@BoneyOfficialooo]

@@Olivia_Daoudiwoah there saved you from commenting on a hacking bot

[@javiervasquez625]

It isn't broken at all, fans just like to complain that Aonuma and the Zelda Team always leave the story and timeline on the backburner everytime a new game is in development. You guys need to remember that Nintendo is a _game developer,_ not J. R. R. bloody Tolkien, hence why the timeline is such an intentional disjointed mess.

[@Linksliltri4ce]

Zelda 2’s lore is the beginning of naming all the princesses with the title of Zelda when her brother regrets having her put under the sleep spell.

[@tambow13]

once you start adding new timelines you start causing problems, you essentially done a Loki in his TV series.

[@Snacker6]

So one of the big things that you missed is that not every Link is necessarily named Link. Most of the legend of Zelda games allow you to name the hero, which is why so many of the heroes go unnamed in the games that come after them, referred to only by their title. This includes Skyward Sword

[@josephdoesASMR]

It doesn’t matter cause what if you name the hero link? It’s literally the default name

[@damnit8396]

“Let it go bro it’s over” ahh timeline

[@NJMiguess]

The spiritual successor to BDG's unraveled

[@Noah73827]

thats exactly what i thought when i saw the title

[@ForCasualPlayers]

you made me use MONOPOLY

[@Thepopmario]

BDG's timeline is in my opinion, the most superior Zelda timeline to ever exist, and you can't tell me otherwise.

[@Bearwolf13]

The Ganon in Tears of the Kingdom is the True Ganon and all other Ganon's are just the True Ganon's attempts to rise back to power and over throw Hyrule...

[@ZeronimeYT]

Nintendo: Write That Down!

[@minestar2247]

12:56 its the only "canon death" because the decline timeline still has to exist, and it cant be set in the adult timeline because of the wind waker trilogy, so they put it there for convenience. Another possibility could be that the branch of decline is set in majora's mask because there is also ocarina timetravel in there, making it so that link is absent for the imprisonment war of the decline timeline which leads to alttp, while he is still present for the one in the child timeline, which leads to TP

[@tomrees82]

4:19 They're not the only problems, there's also FSA having Blue Ganon.

[@calebgoodman3028]

That makes sense though since it’s an entirely different Ganon. It’s even stated outright in the game.

[@handgun559]

Ganon isn't resurrected like the video implies. It's a common misconception in line with the multiple links and zeldas. Demise and the Ganondorf's are related through conquest. They are all Demon Kings, and hold the hate of that throne. The multiple Ganondorf's are just a result of the "Every 100 years, a Gerudo Male will be born" thing. Currently, we have 3 Ganondorf's. All Zeldas are related by blood. Links all share the same spirit, but their relationship is otherwise random. Usually not related at all. Maybe OOT is related to TP, but it could also be metaphorical, and The Shade calls TP Link "son" after training him. And familial word choice isn't uncommon for those relationships.

[@nworder4life]

@@handgun559 Hyrule Historia is the only source we have that outright confirms the hero's shade is OOT Link and that he's related to TP Link by blood.

[@handgun559]

@nworder4life eh, the shade being OOT link was theorized because of the context clues already in game, not because it was in the book. So if there was enough clear allusion to his character that they also straight up announced, then I'd wager it just IS him.

[@calebgoodman3028]

@ Yep that’s the truth. All of the stuff in the five Zelda lore books we have now are all rooted back to the games themselves. Sometimes even the manuals and games box descriptions outright tell you as seen with Zelda 2 and A Link to the Past.

[@Ked7]

Epic theory. multiverse theory normally feels like a cop out, but this makes a lot of sense and narratively seems more exciting Edit: to clarify, this timeline is not necessarily correct. But the idea behind it is epic.

[@SilvaShadow1990]

Even though ppl say it isn't canon, I still say Hyrule warriors fits.

[@михаиликкозлов]

I bet on Dark Souls.

[@javiervasquez625]

Problem with this theory is that it makes the Golden Goddesses seem incompetent by unleashing so many bloody timelines and alternate universes for no reason other than to justify different storylines and events. At the end of the day, Nintendo is a game company, hence why these games are such an intentional mess in regards to continuity, lore and story events.

[@Ked7]

@@javiervasquez625lore does take a hit whenever multiverse theory is introduced. But it allows for more storytelling which is a decent trade off if done gracefully.

[@javiervasquez625]

​@@SilvaShadow1990 The ending of Hyrule Warriors literally show the timelines *restoring* themselves back to normal, making this "theory" completely incapable of been true.

[@Oct_85]

Dandy’s world is still untouched by game theory 😂

[@espvp]

Everyone: we hate that nintendo decided to leave things vague and ambiguous to figure it out by ourselves Also everyone: *tries to figure it out by themselves* This is exactly what nintendo aimed for, make content creators talk about the games, and it’s exactly what they’ve achieved

[@TheMinecraftHype]

Vague and ambiguous is fine... contradictory and impossible to solve is not. There is a difference.

[@espvp]

@ im not saying this is good, I personally would’ve preferred if botw and totk were set in separate continuity, I’m just pointing out what nintendo is doing here

[@theblueblazer999]

Important detail: it’s the SECOND kingdom of Hyrule. Rauru and Sonia re-founded it.

[@Gigi4u]

That is a theory not fact and the lore book conflicts with that theory.

[@catdownthestreet]

​@@Gigi4u okay, but they did say it's up to interpretation

[@silvermoon2608]

You say that like it’s confirmed. Nothing official has ever stated that

[@dragon1130]

I like Brian David Gilberts interpretation of the timeline. Particularly at the OoT part. You see, before Nintendo released their official timeline, fans speculated that the timeline split between the Adult and Child Timelines in OoT. Then Nintendo revealed a thiord timeline where the Hero dies in OoT. in other words, you know how you got stuck at a really hard part of the game and just gave up to go play basketball with your firends... yeah that cannon. So we have the child timeline, Adult Timeline and Basketball. Also, he managed to fix Nintendo's timeline with Monopoly.

[@calebgoodman3028]

This is probably just me but I don’t think the timeline needs fixing at all. It’s fine the way it is. I do prefer the Zelda Encyclopedia’s version of the Historia though which is the one they’re using now.

[@ProjectionProjects2.7182]

I feel like maybe some minor things could be tweaked but overall I agree its fine.

[@charleehoward4550]

Game theory needs to do a dandy's world theory, it's a roblox game with heaps of lore just waiting to be found

[@MattAttack911]

It's really interesting

[@TheFriskyJacket]

One of these days I should get around to writing out my "Zelda's hidden 4th timeline" theory.

[@sofiamcloser]

theorists do anything but consider the zonai came after the timelines converged

[@SerpentineDeity]

Nothing short of unification works to explain all the creatures and artifacts from different timelines. 1,000 years is a lofty goal for a civilization and 10,000 is unimaginable. At some point after the timelines merge most of Hyrule history is gone and hence a new Hyrule was created by furries.

[@CharlieByrne-l9u]

im sorry, hilians! its hylians, get it right

[@nworder4life]

I shall support you. HI LEE AN'S Hi Lee Ah

[@Amewyn]

This is fascinating, I'm glad to see that the weird stuff of theorycraft is alive and well and it is done in a perfectly sensible way

[@TheBreadPirate]

It's a crazy theory, but I like it!

[@jameshay668]

This guy needs to learn how to pronounce "Hylia" and "Hylian" correctly! 😳

[@martonbenkovics5258]

Is it just me, or does anyone else hate Tom saying Hilian and not Hylian?

[@peanits333]

Yea it’s annoying

[@Borgdrohne13]

The Problem with BotW and TotK is, they are so far in the future it doesn't matter, from which branch they came from. Edit: 03:55 Blue Ganon was shown in Four Swords Adventure too.

[@thepbrit]

Yes, but Tom is correct that *most* of Blue Ganon's appearances are in the Downfall timeline, so his appearance in Echoes of Wisdom was a soft point to Downfall timeline

[@its_amarysso]

0:12 thats crazy when theyre so lore heavy

[@andreastewart8644]

Theory idea: what is the deadliest item in Mario kart since you've already calculated 5h blue shell

[@andreastewart8644]

*the

[@PlushCrossing]

Please talk about Hyrule Warriors Age of Calamity and how that creates a whole new timeline branch where they successfully defeat Calamity Ganon first try 😭🙏

[@eeoo2beeboo]

I'm 98% sure it's not canon.

[@ConceptsYep]

@@eeoo2beeboo Oh believe me it is It's just a split timeline too, so it doesn't really affect anything else (I did make a video on this topic on my channel if you're interested, gotta look for it in my playlists tho)

[@SuperPrestogamer]

@@ConceptsYepNintendo themselves have confirmed it isn’t canon…hence why it is never brought up nor mentioned with the future champions about the age of calamity events…

[@Finnishmanni]

@@ConceptsYep It's confrirmed by nintendo that both of those games aren't part of the story. Those are just warrior games made for funzies.

[@Tyler-q3k]

I'm pretty sure that would give Tom an aneurysm. 😂

[@SuperStarLion]

I can't believe I waited this long for another zelda game theory video

[@DeluxeGamer_47]

15:43 I don't know if having a fail timeline and success timeline here works because over the course of of skyward sword you upgrade your sword making it into the master sword. How would you have it in botw and totk if it only gets made if ganon wins. Skyward sword should happen before botw and totk for you to have the master sword in them.

[@jacksoncurtis6898]

It isn't necessarily the same master sword

[@theginganinja08]

​@@jacksoncurtis6898 This actually works really well because it has the energy beams while in most games, the master sword does not. It also just functions differently in general

[@LuZRepliCant]

Also didnt the Master Works book say that it takes place after skyward sword? :/ theres too mich still wrong here

[@breadmaster9006]

That opening joke was top tier for game theory

[@kamuispade9553]

Imagine if this is all a "Chicken or the egg theory," where the end eventually loops back to the beginning.

[@Smart-vn9yg]

My theory has just been that the merging of the timelines caused the history to change(since the timelines had to converge back into one.)

[@rukatzu9121]

Great video, but I’m still not convinced. Thematically it makes more sense and is more satisfying for it to be “in the end”, since there are so many older buildings and other memorabilia like the Twilight Mirror present. I personally really like the Hyrule Warriors theory or the “far future” explanation, it is more satisfying than just “another timeline”. But this is just my opinion.

[@copperhopper7507]

I agree. The existing memorabilia and even the old armours could just be a re-creation to honour the history, in the same way museums re-create artifacts to commemorate past events.

[@HeresyGremlin]

Now thinking about it Demise doesn't just have similar goals and physical appearance to TotK Ganondorf, but a similar sealing of Demise happens before Skyward Sword as it did with TotK Ganondorf. They even both are able to somewhat break out and negatively impact the world, with Demise becoming the Imprisoned and TotK Ganondorf becoming Calamity Ganon.

[@visualizermusictracks]

that is because on this new continuity the previous games are the legends born out of these events in BotW and TotK

[@krvgames9258]

@@HeresyGremlin I honestly had a theory that Ganondorf created Calamity Ganon to reclaim his body during the events of Breath of the Wild. That is why Calamity Ganon was able to attack so suddenly and at Hyrule Castle, which is because no one had the knowledge that Ganondorf was sealed right underneath Hyrule Castle.

[@jeanoporter9888]

really wish there was a super amazing end card tournament at the end of this video

[@Arob4343]

Link’s name being lost makes sense because of the gameplay as well. Back then, we could choose Link’s name. So he could be any name

[@Anarquist664]

2:17 Nintendo intern begins taking notes

[@FANE3002]

the hiiilians my dude its HIGH-LIANS

[@masteryoraerasante]

The Rito have a very easy explanation, one that was made even clearer in Echoes of Wisdom but was not hard to see with other games: River Zoras. Wind Waker was a world flooded by the ocean. There is no reason that Ocean Zoras would need to evilve into birds. On the other hand, we have another species of Zora, one with a different appearence, that was present in quite a few games, and most important, that would NOT thrive as well in a world filled with SEA water.

[@New3DSLuigi364]

So the River Zora became Ritos; while Sea Zora remained the same?!

[@justhenry2221]

@@New3DSLuigi364pretty much, yeah. Wind Waker really forced some species to either die out, or undergo drastic change

[@thepbrit]

There is a slight problem with this, we can say with certainty that it was the sleek and pretty Sea Zora who became the Rito in Wind Waker, all thanks to Medli! After you get the Master Sword in WW, it's still not at full power so we need to re-awaken it's sealed power by finding the descendants of the sages of Earth and Wind so they may play their sacred songs and restore the Master Sword's divine power. Medli is one of these descendants, with her ancestor being the Sage of Earth Laruto who is very obviously a Sea Zora. So we know that it was the Sea Zora that became the Rito because we literally see it.

[@hokton8555]

there are zora warriors/Geozards in the downfall timeline also WW rito look like sea zoras with fethers and not like river zoras and dont forget about Laruto

[@Kikie__Fox]

I desperately need him to cover dandy's world like immediately!!!! PLEASE

[@StrayBee]

BotW and TotK were always more reboot-like than part of the timeline. So offcourse making it it's own timeline is the best solution. Rauru failing to bind Ganon is the best explenation for his many incarnations in the OG timelines. Simple but well-executed theory.

[@Gigi4u]

@@StrayBee it however breaks the lore of the games. By removing skyward sword from the timline leading to BOTW and TOTK it causes so many issues. Like for example Demise not being there to create Demises curse which is the whole reason why hyrule experiences evil so often. Then there is the impossible existence of the master sword, without skyward sword the master sword could not exist in BOTW. There is a reason why the placement of skyward sword in the timeline is never changed because doing so breaks a lot of things.

[@Phleacean-DS]

14:25 oh no... it's the fate series timeline all over sgain😭

[@EdwardBraunsIII]

Can’t wait to see someone disprove this video

[@kw904-h3e]

Already did XD

[@EdwardBraunsIII]

@ lollllll

[@Gigi4u]

Hollow knight theory video all over again

[@DamienWonder]

We can finally consider the CDI games canon? "I won!"

[@FriskDrinksBrisk]

"Im done!" - Peanut Butter Gamer

[@DamienWonder]

@FriskDrinksBrisk 🎶they think I'm ridin dirty, but I'm just regular dirty🎶

[@SqueakyPie]

"You've killed me" "Good"

[@brokenheadphones7677]

1:40 I felt that "WHAT?!" through the screen and around the world

[@SolomonLegends]

Nintendo in the background chilling out saying he did our work for us.

[@itszealous1400]

5:20 becuase the theory made no sense when you actually think about it

[@charpat4309]

Why?

[@itszealous1400]

@charpat4309 because the entire theory is based on the different timelines merging in hyrule warriors when the downfall timeline doesn't connect to the game and the latter half of the story sees the player close all the connections to other timelines, re separating the timelines and causing no permanent effect

[@charpat4309]

@itszealous1400 true but still I feel like it's still the most logical way even if there are some plotholes

[@itszealous1400]

@@charpat4309 dude called swaggmasta made a video completely redoing it from the ground up and his makes loads more sense

[@itszealous1400]

And also if I had to put botw in the current timeline I would go for the adult timeline because if you really stretch it most of the evidence for each timeline can be explained away except for the rock salt requiring an ocean, it would just be that the second great flood at the end of wind waker eventually lowers again to reveal hyrule.

[@ikebeckman1074]

Gotta say, even as a recent experiencer of LoZ, saying hill-lian and hill-lia instead of high-lian and high-lia really irks me. Imo it should be consistent-High-rule, populated by High-lians, who worship High-lia

[@TheMenchuCraft]

i think it wasnt the founding of hyrule but instead a refounding of hyrule

[@kw904-h3e]

Yep

[@dissonanceparadiddle]

Never in my wildest dreams did. I think that game theory is all the timeline videos would out Live Matt Pat's career

[@l4l01234]

This is actually groundbreaking. The student has become the master.

[@mirzasharamova-if7qq]

Your energy is awesome.