Game Theory: Link Is NOT Who You Think He Is... (The Legend of Zelda)

[@jasonwarnecke1560]

Zelda is a part of the curse of Demise. The curse wasn't aimed at just Skyward Sword Link. It says blood of the goddess, which is Zelda. Also I don't think you get what happened in wind waker. He wasn't a chosen hero true, but he became one through the course of the game. He earned the title, and as such was able to acquire the triforce of courage and the Master Sword. By overcoming trials he proved his courage and became a hero.

[@lazylurkerbro9855]

Yeah, if "some random kid" defeating gannon breaks the curse, why the heck would zelda defeating him not continue it? She's part of the curse!! I thought he was gonna go full-meme and say Tingle should defeat him.

[@pizzyzarc2695]

@@lazylurkerbro9855 This would have worked, and would make a great story.

[@dylan1333]

Tep

[@CZOM027]

As usual, they disregard evidence to make a video that sounds logical.

[@Pardo748]

I guess matpat just wanted to end the video with "the legend of Zelda"

[@kaisermaximal8123]

Demise stated that, "an incarnation of my hatred" will follow the spirit of the hero. It's possible that Bellum (phantom hourglass) and Malladus (spirit tracks) are just different incarnations of the demise curse. Demise never said it had to be a dude named Gannon specifically

[@AP-kx4yw]

Also, the original japanese dialog actually mentions multiple incarnations.

[@MrSailing101]

Bellum was the first appearance of Malace as a life draining force in the series.

[@ramonandrajo6348]

Aaaaaaand you fail. XD

[@adil0028]

​@ThunderLord-fw4heyou mean Hyrule?

[@drackestalentorgen166]

Ganon just lasted a lot as an incarnation cause he was to angry to die

[@Ty-yt3lj]

I mean yeah Link wasn’t of the hero’s spirit by birth. He literally just gained that recognition through sheer will and dedication. He’s a hero by Action, not by Birthright

[@SynicalTC]

This^

[@Accountthatexists]

@MerlinMersis this is a bot yall

[@3xeplodng_3agle_studios]

​@@AccountthatexistsI wonder if anyone ever realized the more you report a bot, the sneakier it gets. 😂

[@TheGeladoo]

Yep, Demise curses the *spirit* of the hero, not the *blood* . Link isn't part of a bloodline, his righteous spirit reincarnates whenever evil is rising again.

[@KoenRH2803]

Exactly what I said but with different words haha. Beautifully put 🤝

[@TildeQ]

There's a couple holes in this theory, but the biggest one is a quote from Zelda herself in Breath of the Wild: "The sacred blade is forever bound to the soul of the hero." The Hero of Winds must be the inheritor of the hero's spirit to wield the Master Sword to it's full potential.

[@randomksines9888]

didn't he need the assistance of two sages, the triforce of courage, and Zelda to wield the blade to it's full potential though? It's stated in the game he doesn't have the hero's spirit, but he in a way earns it, allowing him to wield the blade. At least that's how I see it.

[@nworder4life]

There's a theory that's not even the actual master sword, I mean it looks pretty different.

[@Jason75913]

​@@randomksines9888 "in a way earns it" Indeed, a way called "the Tower of the Gods", Link has to complete that and more just to wield the Master Sword to its full power he starts off as NOT the legendary hero. So by the end, he did _become_ the next Link of his era.

[@RemedieX]

​@@Jason75913 I agree with this. It just makes too much sense :)

[@elizathegamer413]

Generally all links need to "unlock" the master sword. In a link between worlds for example, you need all 3 goddess charms to wield it​@@randomksines9888

[@supremefankai5480]

The problem with this theory is that Mattpat thinks Ganondorf is the only incarnation of Demise's curse. As shown with B tier villains like Vaati, the vague wording of the curse allows for more than just Ganon to be that reincarnation. This means the spirit of the hero always has some great evil to vanquish, Ganon just happens to be the most persistent.

[@johnpett1955]

If I'm correct, I think the only villain that isn't an incarnation of Demise or isn't trying to resurrect someone who is, is just Majora's mask, and that's just because it takes place in a parallel world that's separate from the world Hyrule is in.

[@chicken0w044]

@@johnpett1955also the monster from phantom hourglass. It’s just a feral monster

[@HonterDax]

Not only that, most times that Ganon returns is because he wasn't really defeated. For example, for the Fallen Timeline to happen, Link has to die on the battle against Ganon, meaning Ganon isn't dead, just sealed. And sure, that specific Ganon returns in the Oracle games, but he's revived by his followers. No magic curse involved. And in Twilight Princess, he was supposed to be executed, but he survived as a giant ball of hatred. He wasn't reborn, he just came back.

[@jpeg6906]

@@chicken0w044 Bellum was not just a feral monster, and if you think he was than you should go play Phantom Hourglass again.

[@chicken0w044]

@@jpeg6906 playing that boring ahh game again? No thanks

[@shadegirly98]

The curse doesn't only follow Link, but it follows Zelda too. He cursed both the spirit of the hero AND the blood of the goddess. The blood of the goddess is passed down through the lineage of the Hyrulian family, ie, Zelda's bloodline.

[@charajeux]

Exactly

[@EEEEEEEE]

‎‎‎‎‎‎‎‎‎‎‎‎‎‎E

[@demivolt7936]

​@@EEEEEEEESo true!

[@Kefgoeroe]

Okay so we just need a random stranger from another land who just happens to pass through to defeat Ganon one and for all. That would finally end the curse. Because Hylia clearly isn’t interested in ending it herself… 😂😂😂

[@smaug2981]

I would say that one work around is to have the current Link (Spirit of the Hero) train someone else to defeat Ganon. We can even have a training montage scene.

[@windowwasher8441]

matpat, as much as i love your conclusion, i think you missed that zelda was also roped into that curse. that implies that she would also continue the curse by defeating ganon, which is bound to happen after totk as well...

[@monkeyblade99]

Yep. And if Nintendo wants to do something spicy, then the next "incarnation of hatred" won't be a ganon/ganondorf.

[@Aidan-zc8wx]

@@monkeyblade99 Vaati makes a reappearance?

[@maxthemagician8698]

Matpat the Hero Of The Wind Wasn’t Given His Title. He Earned It

[@Tyomak-ov]

I was going to say, Its a curce involving those three, her killing him wouldn't change anything. I think he just got to the end and didn't have any actual suggestions to give off and needed an ending and just closed it by saying zelda will be the hero.

[@vampirex3607]

@windowwasher8441 was thinking the exact same thing and was honestly expecting tingle to show up but I guess he didn’t really listen to his own script

[@jimmcknight13]

(November 2023) Game Theory: Maybe Zelda should be the one to defeat Ganon. (June 2024) Nintendo Direct: IN THIS GAME ZELDA IS THE PROTAGONIST!

[@Liam-og5vo]

haha fr

[@LovelyLara123]

:0 MAYBE IT’S HAPPENING

[@HokutoShinkento]

shes part of the curse too and that game is a spinoff, matpat is a clown with worse creativity than a bad netflix adaptation

[@auggiebaw4580]

​@@HokutoShinkentoDon't say that! We all love MatPat here. Although he may not always be right, he's still a good and funny person.

[@momotarro253]

For starters it's a known fact about the hero of wind that he wasn't the chosen hero, there was a whole quest in the game to force himself to be chosen, but because of that quest, collecting the triforce and beating the tower of the gods, he BECAME the chosen hero. Another point that many others have also brought up is that the evil doesn't have to be Ganon, vaati and malladus could also be considered incarnations of demise's hatred.

[@SliceyMcHackHack]

Doesnt Vaati say something similar to being the incarnation of evil or hatred.? Its been a while since I played but I swear he mentions something of the effect..

[@Airlo-rk8wj]

In a more accurate translation of demises curse, it states that the demon tribe as a whole will go after the future links and Zeldas.

[@megarotom1590]

@@Airlo-rk8wj so in other words, to my knowledge Vaati wouldn't count but the the latter adult timeline villains would though that does point out something else interesting cause to my knowledge... Ganondorf is human born (well Gerudo born anyways) only the triforce let him become ganon to my knowledge... perhaps demon refers not to any sort of bloodline but rather what anyone with a dark heart becomes with the power of the gods...

[@thunderspark1633]

@@megarotom1590 The thing is we have to take Demise curse as it stand Demise himself or rather his hatred and rage was educed to its pure escence or rather a literal "concept". Just like the Spirit of the Hero being a concept either by Destiny or by becoming it by will, a pure concept can take many forms. Cannon, CannonDorf, Vaati etc. A concept of Evill that will always follow the goddess and the hero rising up to battle it.

[@SJrad]

Also, a link to the past’s and the other downfall timeline links are not related to OOT Link by blood, because he died to Ganondorf in that timeline

[@Bushclam]

There are many games where Zelda already tried to defeat ganondorf. As sheik and as herself. In a lot of games (if not all) her triforce is actually needed to seal him. Whether it be as a sage, a triforce holder, or just using her iconic arrows she’s evolved from being a simple damsel in distress.

[@Willhelm_Urgestein]

Exactly, she does not have to run around with a sword to do important things. Beeing captured at some point in the story does not change that, OoT had her beeing captured for the last dungeon and the first part of the final bossfight because she underestimated Ganondorfs abilities, but aside from that tiny bit she tells link about whats going on, teaches him more than half of the songs, gives him the light arrows, opens the doors when escaping the towers and banishes Ganondorf together with Link and the Sages. While she is not the hero, she is not a damsel in distress either, if you want to bring her role down to a single word, she is a mentor.

[@davontaeoverman6551]

She shares the blood of the goddess

[@night2501]

more important, she is also bound by destiny, so not too sure may help the idea of a unrelated 3rd party not bound by destiny, the hero of wind, thematically a new wind, breaking the cycle makes sense but can not be zelda, if they want a female hero, maybe a new incarnation of Linkle? but the important part is that like the hero of wind, becomes a hero trough action not destiny

[@kolbmyster5956]

Came to the comments hoping to see someone say this. I mean sure, in the original games she was more of a damsel in distress but in the 3d games especially she has had a more substantial role than just waiting for Link to save her, its been more a team effort between her and Link that takes down Ganon.

[@EEEEEEEE]

‎‎‎‎‎‎‎‎‎‎‎‎‎‎‎‎‎‎‎‎‎E

[@miah3170]

Not sure if anyone else has mentioned this but the spirit of the hero is not just the target of the curse it's also targeted at "the blood of the goddess". Props for connected the dots on Wind Waker Link

[@AskanHelstroem]

just imagine...after countless generations, nearly the entire population has at least a bit of the goddess's blood... I kinda like that :P even tho it destroys Mat's theory about Zelda...

[@Chris-gx1ei]

​​@@AskanHelstroem Well, by that Logic there would be tons of different relatives of Zelda and especially the females having Hylia's Divine Powers, however I only think they only make one or two children like it is usual for Kingdoms, one is the Crown Prince/Princess and the other is the Substitude for Back Up, other than that I don't think that they'll let too much Royal Blood go around

[@AskanHelstroem]

@@Chris-gx1ei it's like the rice grain and chessboard problem. So imagine the first line had two kids, and these two kids will have two kids (not with each other of course), and their kids....and so on. But why would a royal couple only have 1-2 children? especially one? If that one dies, ur throne is in danger... Pick a random king, from medieval times, and follow his progenies. Harald Blåtand - 5 kids Cnut the Great - 4 kids Edward IV - 10 kids Henry VII - 7 kids And I'm just counting the legitimate children :P

[@emapocubayova4763]

Was gonna say that. Zelda is part of that song and dance too

[@Jason75913]

​@@AskanHelstroem all Mongolians have a bit of Genghis Khan blood in them

[@hatster401]

Matpat figured out the literal plot of the game I'm so proud of him.

[@OldDemonTooth]

No. He didn't. The game writers did and wrote it into the story. Pay attention more.

[@corblimey8147]

​@@OldDemonToothI can't tell if you're messing with me.

[@marjorybarker5750]

Bro 85 also said zeldas in the curse so it won't work

[@marjorybarker5750]

It

[@Wendy_O._Koopa]

Dude has two types of theories, the kind that are objectively wrong and disproven on arrival, or the ones where he's basically reading the manual and/or a wiki and just spouting facts (with errors here and there). It's always been like this.

[@KoenRH2803]

Wasn’t it already well established that the Wind Waker Link doesn’t possess the spirit of the hero but instead earned himself the title when no spirit of the hero showed up? It’s what made this Link so special. He had to work in order to be worthy of the tri-force/master sword’s power despite not being “the one”. Edit: No shade though, love me some Zelda content!

[@mulberrylucy]

Yeah it's not even a theory, idk how you could play windwaker and *not* realise this

[@deanxile]

I honestly thought that wind waker link was just a random passerby force to take the role was common knowledge

[@TheGeladoo]

Yep, he gets recognized by the Master Sword itself, it's undeniable that he, after going through all the trials, came to possess the spirit of the hero. And the fact that he had to pass those trials to begin with prove that he didn't have it from the start. The thing is that the Spirit of the Hero was never a bloodline thing. It was always a "person who has a courageous spirit when evil starts rising" thing. The throwaway line from LTTP was either before they started thinking hard about lore and was thus retconned later on or maybe even a mistranslation. And it's all this theory hinges on.

[@gamerzan953]

If anything, ganondorf not coming is probably due to the lack of the hero spirit in the adult timeline. The curse is missing a fundamental part to work.

[@KoenRH2803]

@@gamerzan953 I agree with your interpretation. I’ve always seen it as a Yin and Yang kind of dynamic. Without the one there is no other, so neither actually reincarnate.

[@crubexzero9283]

I would argue that Wind Waker Link WAS in fact a knight of Hyrule. In Hyrule Castle, a portrait can be seen depicting each of Tetra’s pirate crew as knights and nobles. They are still knights guarding their Princess, but as a pirate crew instead; a pirate crew that Link joins and is properly initiated into by Nico. He may not have the bloodline, but as he proves a few times through the course of the game, he’s got the spirit of A hero, if not THE hero.

[@revilokid]

I like this. those pirate are the modern incarnation of the knights. Nico being a true vet.

[@God-T]

in my book this puts the wind waker link above the hero spirit ..he always has been my favourite link growing up. he is the "hero of will"

[@EdenWalker-l9z]

Wait a min, doesn't Wind Wakers Link re-assemble the Triforce of Courage? Then it gets implanted into his hand. One of the MANY rules for being the 'hero' is having the Triforce of Courage. AAAND he finishes off Ganondorf with the Master Sword.

[@wet0wl]

Being a knight isn’t even necessary for you to be the hero though.

[@Ahouro]

​@@EdenWalker-l9zHaving the Tri-force of courage have never been a prerequisite to be the "Hero".

[@lostandskyward]

I (personally) think that when link proved himself in the tower of the gods, he inherited the spirit of the hero, and became a knight of hyrule. The king of red lions also told us so. Plus the curse is tied to both Zelda and link. The curse doesn’t just follow the spirit of the hero, but the blood of the goddess too.

[@woteveruk1]

no, he didnt inherit the spirit of the hero, he became a hero in his own right, and king of red lions says " the gods have acknowledged you as a true hero" so he doesnt say link inherited the hero's spirit, only that link is now acknowledged as a hero,

[@EiscremeDavid]

The Curse also binds to the Sages. Look at OOT when they banned him in the Sacred Realm

[@sly_cat]

@@woteveruk1people keep misunderstand, the “spirit of the hero” is just the triforce of courage, if you prove yourself to the goddesses you get it, that’s why so many of the knights get it.

[@woteveruk1]

@@EiscremeDavid thats not the curse though, the curse comes from demise, and he places a curse on the spirit of the hero (link) and the blood of the goddess (zelda)

[@TortimerTheGrey]

Ganon: "No Hero can defeat me!" Zelda removes helmet: "I am no hero!"

[@AugustA447]

Godddddddddd imagine a Tolkein-esque Zelda game

[@wyattblack2403]

Ha ha ha, love both these franchises. I kinda want to animate this now.

[@Liam-og5vo]

@@AugustA447 yesssss plzzz

[@WolfTamer]

Ganon's fine print in the contract: *Or heroine

[@MattGOnYT]

As other comments have said, Windwaker Link is explicitly stated to become the Hero by the end of the game, but there’s another issue I have, and that’s that there’s no real reason to believe that the rules stated in Link to the Past necessarily apply to different incarnations of the cycle. The stated rules could very well apply only to LttP’s version of Link, not effecting other variants of the character

[@zmatt25]

Or its just deprecated lore. Its ALTTP, its old. You gotta take it wuth a grain of salt.

[@GigalassII]

​@@zmatt25they also reaffirmed LttP with LbW in 2013, same rules and lore, just a future incarnation, 20 irl years after the fact, not much room for assumption there.

[@tobigrantlbart]

When the whole point of Windwaker is that connection to the kingdom of red lions are going to end and a new era begins Ganon literally being lost under the sea with the rest of Hyrule It seems weird to me how he put so much emphasis on the rule of a world where: 1. The kingdom still exists 2. The knights of Hyrule still exist Yes they are said to have a hero emerge from their ranks, but more because they are the protectors of the family in those worlds With the hero of wind seeing the beginning if a new protector

[@I_tend_to_hyperfixate]

At first, I was a little nervous MatPat would finally ruin my childhood with disproving windwaker Link as a hero, but honestly, windwaker Link being some random kid killing off Ganon is honestly something he would do. My only complaint is that WW Link DOES get the triforce. Plus, he still could have decended from knights who just left Windfall because they were bored or something idk. (edit) Sorry. I meant to say he *earned* the triforce, if that wasn't clear. Even if he's not a hero by blood, he's still a hero to me!

[@shadowfan115]

Exactly and the curse was on the spirit of the hero not on the bloodline of the hero so WW Link and ST Link would still have the spirit of the hero earned instead of being born with said spirit so and like Demise said his hatred would be reborn not Himself as Ganon it would be every major threat Link has fought like Vaati

[@davidstogsdill5854]

I think this is why Hero of Wind’s Trials are so intense. Only Skyward sword was more deliberate in laying the the quest to forge both Master Sword and Link’s soul into the undying Heroic spirit. Hero of the Winds had to prove his worth and forge his soul into a not immortal but still heroic spirit to slay Gabon without being THE heroic spirit and triggering the curse.

[@shadowfan115]

@@davidstogsdill5854 exactly the point that Matthew Sadly missed he forged that spirit in him throughout the game it was a wee flame that grew as the game went on

[@SideQuestStories]

Using an older game to refute a newer game is the stupidest thing I have ever seen. The entire point of the Hero of Winds was that he proved the thing about Knights wrong, that it is about the SPIRIT of the hero (as it is always phrased later in release order). That's the real timeline every theorist ignores - release order. Thematic storytelling uses retcons as plot points.

[@zoompipes_twin2889]

@@SideQuestStorieswhy don’t YOU make the timeline then if you think YOU know how it works :P

[@MumboJ]

BotW is pretty explicit about Link being the only one able to defeat Ganon, by prophecy. That's why the giant laser tanks that can decimate mountains are only intended to "assist" the hero. Even if Zelda was able to solo him, she is also part of that same Demise curse so it would be no better in that respect.

[@goldyblox157]

As a great man once said: "It is written: Only Link can defeat Ganon!"

[@MumboJ]

Although by my own logic, WW Link shouldn't have been able to defeat Ganon. Maybe after gathering all the pieces of the shattered Triforce made him count as the new Hero or something. That makes sense to me.

[@DisgruntledDingo]

Tower of gods made him a Hero. It was a Trial, like Hercules' Labors. That's why the goddesses opened Hyrule to him.@@MumboJ

[@Link6651]

And not just that, let's also remember that in OOT, it is also pretty explicit to mention that ONLY the Master Sword can damage Ganondorf or Ganon. Aaaand.. The Master Sword is only usable by the one with the spirit of the Hero, it's pretty much like Thor's Mjölnir, or the Scalibur sword. Only a very specific person can rise or even pull it out of the pedestal. I mean, yeah, Zelda hides it in Lost Woods in BOTW, but she might be the only exception since she is... Well, the Godess herself, she is the one who basically wrote the rules tho.

[@JamesMaund538]

⁠@@Link6651third mjölnir isn’t the best example as in mythology the hammer is just super heavy, unless you are talking about the mcu version

[@FlameoSir]

I think the phrasing in the curse is pretty important. It specifically mentions BLOODLINE with Zelda and SPIRIT with Link. The spirit of the hero traditionally appearing through royal guard but not limited to that. The hero of wind began the story as some random kid but through his heroic action and courage took on the spirit of the hero

[@ftfamilytab4880]

Demise's curse was still enacted, with Malibus in Spirit Tracks. As for the hero thing, half the game's story is based around him not being the hero of destiny, and having to obtain it from the gods.

[@sly_cat]

Yeah it’s more of a title attached to the triforce than anything.

[@EEEEEEEE]

‎‎‎‎‎‎‎‎‎‎‎‎‎‎‎‎‎‎‎‎‎‎‎‎‎‎‎‎‎‎‎‎‎‎‎‎‎‎‎‎‎‎‎‎‎‎‎‎‎‎‎‎‎‎‎‎‎‎‎‎‎‎‎‎‎‎‎‎‎‎‎‎‎‎‎E

[@jwil4286]

And the maidens in LTTP are only in one era of one timeline. Nothing says it has to apply to others as well.

[@sofigzz3163]

I love how the fact that Wind Waker Link didn’t originally have the spirit of the hero but later gained it through his quest is such an accepted theory of the fandom already, that everybody is correcting Matpat in the comments

[@Comicbroe405]

True!

[@kingofflames738]

We've come full circle correcting theory with theory

[@RommekePommeke]

That is barely a theory considering that actually does happen in game. Wind Waker is one of the few games where you actually have to prove yourself.

[@laplongejunior]

Tbf the correction is actually proving his point : that link became a new hero, which could mess with Demise's curse due to crippiling overspecification. WW link is an hero of hyrulian decent but NOT with the spirit from the old hero.

[@Yukiomustang]

I think the thing that sticks with me the most is the fact that it’s SPIRIT of the hero, not the bloodline of the hero. Therefore I believe that while Link to the Past is correct, it may be more of a correlation rather than a causation. But in the end it could be that the Spirit of the Hero isn’t truly a birthright, but a path. Maybe it’s that a Spirit of the hero needs to be courageous, unwavering, and truly want to end the conflict. Things that a knight or the family of a knight would want. And we just follow the story of the hero who was all those things and had encountered evil and stood strong and faced it.

[@anretoga-8851]

Agree

[@felixchristianjuarsa1487]

Agreed

[@superjohnnyboy1991]

It's stated in Wind waker that he doesn't have the heroes spirit though

[@cameroncooper5941]

I always interpreted it as reincarnation for Link.

[@ramonandrajo6348]

And that Link is still not the "Spirit of the Hero" anyway, do you have anything else to say, Nintendrone? XD

[@johnospina1953]

*10:57* me realizing that Echoes of Wisdom exists: 😭

[@Hi_5111]

Literally what I was thinking

[@izanamisgrave]

Side note before the theory starts I'd like to say that Wind Waker has been my favorite link for over a decade now specifically 'cause he gave a finger to "fate" and "destiny", then proceeded to forcibly take the goddess' favor and essentially not only win over the triforce of courage (whereas every other link was born with it) but also be the only link to definitively defeat ganon(dorf) despite essentially being a random schmuck as far as that world is concerned

[@God-T]

same 🫡!

[@erich_ika]

that's a very funny thing to say before the theory starts because that it shows that you and many others already knew the point of this theory as a fact

[@jacksonvoet8312]

I’m sure the Goddesses didn’t need any super forcible convincing beyond completing the Tower of the Gods. I doubt they liked drowning Hyrule, especially considering the fact that they barely even like interacting with anyone.

[@aratherbritishdinosaur]

Two problems: Demise's curse is still intact after the Wind Waker, but it's just not Ganon. The curse states "an incarnation of my hatred", which refers to any incarnation of Demise's curse, not just Ganon. So the villains in Phantom Hourglass and Spirit Tracks are still tied to Demise. Second problem, Zelda also wouldn't be able to break the curse that way, as the curse plagues those with "the blood of the goddess and the spirit of the hero", referring to Link _and_ Zelda. However, Zelda could easily break the curse, by just not having a child. Ending the bloodline forever.

[@h0m3st4r]

@@CoolVideos-sc3kz RedStar 123, your current channel's going to get terminated for this, just like your old one.

[@angelhernandezvega6064]

Even then you couldn't be sure because Zelda would have several relatives that carry the blood of the goddess

[@RinkuSonic41]

I would add the whole Master Sword situation tho

[@michaelplantarich3375]

Yep, 100% true. Not a great theory here lol. Interesting thoughts, but MatPat needs to watch some zeltik

[@Iron0xiDE]

@@michaelplantarich3375definetly

[@aceofclubs]

I like the idea that Link was just some rando who killed the demon king because a cool looking boat told him to. But I think it's worth mentioning that it doesn't necessarily NEED to be Ganondorf, or even the same Ganondorf. Link also had to fight Vaati and Malladus. Plus, I could be misremembering this, but I'm pretty sure Ganondorf canonically dies in Twilight Princess and the Ganondorf in Four Swords Adventure is a different character.

[@ramonandrajo6348]

Riiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiight. ;)

[@wolfiemuse]

One of them definitively dies, and the one that comes after is a different one. All I remember is that the newest Ganondorf is the one from a 2d game that lived as a Gerudo kid and stole some sacred thing from the Gerudo. That might be the same one I don’t remember. But that’s the one that is canonically different

[@fresaenelshortcake]

Adult Timeline after Wind Waker the curse of Demise was ended by the triforce wish. Malladus and Bellum are just normal unrelated evils

[@RifterDask]

BotW and TotK Ganon is pretty clearly a different incarnation who had his origin story at Hyrule's technological peak during the second (or third) founding. He's not the same Ganondorf we met in OoT and killed in WW/TP. All evidence points to his being bound to the curse in the same way Link or Zelda are.

[@mackenziebeeney3764]

@@RifterDaskor if nothing else his is a reoccurring name that leans more toward the dark side that Demise’s curse attaches to. Like how we see other recurring characters. Reincarnation is implied in this series by more than just Zelda and link.

[@LePapillonBrise]

Wind Waker is my FAVORITE game as a kid, and I absolutely _LOVE_ that this is a theory about Wind Waker! Although you're right, Wind Waker Link wasn't a chosen hero, he _BECAME_ one throughout the game. He literally had to _force_ the goddesses to choose him. Putting together the Triforce, fighting through the Tower of the Gods, and obtaining the Master Sword and restoring its power... That is all he had to do, to be recognized as a Hero, given the title "Hero of Winds" just to be able to defeat Ganondorf. All because his Sister was kidnapped. This was my first game, and I LOVED it SO much as a kid. It's beautiful, and has an amazing art style. I'm SO glad this was made. 💙

[@Radditz770]

It's worth stating, I think, that everytime Ganondorf and/or Ganon comes back in a video-game, it's because they were sealed off and escape, or they are resurrected by someone. He's never (as far as I know) just returned to life on his own. So I think that Ganondorf / Ganon isn't "the" incarnation of Demise's hatred, but "one" incarnation of his hatred. He's just been extremely tough and long-lasting in nearly every timeline. I like the idea that he didn't ressurrect after Windwaker because Link wasn't a "spirit of the hero", thus breaking the pattern though! Maybe that's the true answer for how to finally defeat any of Demise's incarnations

[@hiddendesire3076]

Except Wind Waker Link only defeats on incarnation and by sealing him no less. Bellum and Malladus are different individuals from the demon race, the prior having been allowed to hunt unfortunate souls after robbing the Ocean King of another realm of his power, and the other having seized power in the power vacuum left by Ganondorf’s sealing in stone at the bottom of the Great Sea.

[@njcgaming8199]

He doesn't resurrect after any of the times he's killed completely as his Ganondorf form (if you don't count Four Swords Adventure, which again is still only a shell of the hatred of his human version), only when he's sealed away. I think that Link was a spirit of the hero in WW solely because gets the triforce of courage, and it accepts him as the hero. We see that in game.

[@selinawastaken5008]

⁠@@njcgaming8199 Four swords adventure has a different “ganon”, this one is reborn, so essentially a new reincarnation, not a revival

[@Boromant]

@DontReadMyProfilePicture.233 Sheesh I just got rickrolled

[@faolancelebsul4220]

I think he actually does come back on his own if he's killed. I'm not sure why or in wich Titel it was but I have a pretty adamant memory of some gerudo talking about the fact that every 300 or so years a new male gerudo, a new Ganon gets born. If the old one got killed that is.

[@1.21jiggawatts2]

Kinda surprised that you didn’t mention that Wind Waker Link had to go find the Tri Force of Courage and didn’t just naturally have it unlike all the other Links. That’s the biggest piece of evidence to prove he wasn’t the chosen hero.

[@shadowfan115]

I mean he wasn't born with the spirit of the hero but earned it later with the Earth and Wind temples as well as the tower of the gods and gathering the triforce pieces

[@JadeTheProtogen1]

Yeah he's not the hero by birth... but he earned that title and right. He became the hero.

[@apollyon4578]

also didn't mention the WHOOOOLE legend of the hero from the beginning of WW, there the hero doesn't show up when Ganondorf reemerges because the hero went back to the past along with the spirit of the hero that went to the TP link, leaving that timeline with the position available to someone that is courageous enough to become the hero. That's what made that Link special, he looked at the danger head on and said "hold my granny's soup, brb"

[@JadeTheProtogen1]

@@apollyon4578 yas.

[@johnlawful2272]

The best one piece game

[@Night_ssbu]

Demise's curse does not always show up as Ganondorf. In spirt tracks the curse was malladus. In minish cap it was vaati. In phantom hour glass it was bellum. The curse always continues not always in the same form.

[@homerman76]

Eh, Bellum isn't likely an incarnation, given that he's from a completely separate world, and, unlike Majora, there isn't much connection between it and Hyrule aside from the chance encounter with Bellum's Ghost Ship. It's not likely that every evil entity in the series is a manifestation of the curse, though the ones that plague Hyrule most likely would be, Malladus is even the new demon king and has a Ganondorf faced train, so New Hyrule certainly counts.

[@bronze1788]

Malladus was sealed by the lokomo sages way before New Hyrule was discovered he was supposed to be a different demon king of this new land

[@Highstar25]

@@bronze1788 it could pretty easily be argued that all demons that still exist or are born after demise's curse are worthy incarnations of his hatred, or valid vessels for it. In the same way that WW link became a true hero worthy of the triforce of courage, I don't believe there is anything stopping new champions of evil from becoming a worthy successor to demise's hatred. It would also go a long way to explain how Malladus ended up turning from a demon train into a ganon-like boar form.

[@Freelancer837]

I agree that Malladus is the hatred reborn, but Vaati is his own unique character. Vaati's cool but he's also only in the Capcom games, which have always not really fit in the timeline, but Nintendo says are canon anyway

[@Night_ssbu]

@Freelancer837 if I remember correctly vaati gets corrupted by evil so I would still count him along side someone like zant eventhough Ganon does come back I say he is still apart of the curse doing demise's will.

[@sureindubitably3771]

Love that Ganon basically said "I always come back"

[@literallymalware]

Once again MatPat makes a theory that is literally the exact point of the game. This feels like he is doing a theory of a game that he hasn't played and is instead just going through the wiki page

[@fanofmetal1]

It's kinda funny that while the lobster shirt is brought up, the new game plus for wind waker, isn't.

[@poketorr1517]

@@fanofmetal1what about the wind waker new game plus if u don't mind answering?

[@shlop1904]

for real I thought I was crazy, like wasn't link being some random kid that earned title of hero for his sister like the whole point of the game

[@merecow101]

Yeah, this isn’t exactly a theory…it’s just the story of the game

[@geofff.3343]

In fact he's kind of wrong about the theological cosmology the series has established. It's less bloodlines and more the very reincarnation of souls. Much more Wheel of Life than more Western-centric devils and angels stuff.

[@xypysvyl]

The shield in grandmas house is actually identical to the shield that the hero of the minish used in minish cap. If all the other links are knights and the hero of the winds has the shield of a link as inheritance, then surely he’ll have a bit of that bloodline too. Also I think the geography thing doesn’t really matter, I mean TP link lived in Ordon which technically isn’t even IN hyrule I don’t think, so these links can GO places (especially since they don’t seem to have much luck in relation to family)

[@drife9036]

Not to mention the tradiotion of dressing boys in the oufit of the hero when they come of age to find themselves or something like that present in Outset island. A Hyrulean tradition, of a Hyrulean hero presetn in Outset island. It's literally stated at the begining of Wind Waker so I don't know how Matpat and his team didn't see that

[@portermcintire6710]

TP Link is also stated to be a direct descendent of OoT Link

[@bloo6131]

you could say… the Links have a lot of links…

[@ramonandrajo6348]

Nice try, Nintendrone. XD

[@ramonandrajo6348]

@@drife9036 Nice try, Nintendrone. XD

[@MumboJ]

Yes. That's literally the whole point of his character. The game outright tells you this. You even quoted one of the times it does so with the Boat talking to Jabun. That's why you have to reconstruct the Triforce of Courage because it broke after the last hero left the timeline. Many argue that this is what makes him the best hero, because he isn't predestined or anything he's just a dude trying to save his sister.

[@maddog_rogers]

I can’t believe I never put together the reason for the triforce piece quest, thanks for pointing that out 😅

[@gamesndebunker]

I wrote an essay for English class about how The hero of the winds is one of the greatest hero’s in fiction

[@jaketaller8567]

10:54 Since Nintendo announce Echos Of Wisdom a few months after Matpat's retirement, a game where you play as Zelda herself, I'd say theory confirmed.

[@ironmuro]

9:26 Ganondorf doesn't have to be the only incarnation of Demise's will. Ganondorf may not come back but Maladus in Spirit Tracks shares the title of "Demon King" a title that both Demise and Ganondorf have. Side note I still love the "Hyrule Warriors leads into Breath of the Wild" theory. It even makes more sense now than it did with the second Hyrule Warriors game being technically a prequel to Breath of the Wild!

[@DonavonClark-to2by]

Was Demise the last of the Demon race that routinely battled *Goddesses* on equal footing? If so, post Skyward Sword the title of "Demon King" would be the mark of an incarnation of Demise's hatred.

[@elliotgilmore]

Nintendo has confirmed that Hyrule Warriors isn't canon, though

[@ramonandrajo6348]

@@elliotgilmore Aaaaaaand you fail. XD

[@ramonandrajo6348]

The second Hyrule Warriors game has its own timeline now, so... no.

[@elliotgilmore]

@@ramonandrajo6348 He was saying the original Hyrule Warriors is what connects all three timelines to Breath of the Wild and Tears of the Kingdom. Even if Age of Calamity is canon in its own timeline, the first Hyrule Warriors is still not canon.

[@ScorpionTamer]

You had me in the first half with needing a new hero to defeat Ganon, but it couldn't be Zelda. Not only is she a part of the curse, but I'm pretty sure she's already killed Ganon before.

[@aireal79]

Well, firstly I'd like to say its njce to see a Zelda theorory. Secondly, the fact WW Link isn't born with "the spirit of the hero" is a well know, canon piece of lore. It is also part of his character development, as you spend a great deal of the game trying to prove you are worthy of the mantle of hero.

[@ramonandrajo6348]

True.

[@Idonothing-jj7qe]

Game theory: *makes a theory on Zelda* The internet: HOW MANY TIMES WE GOTTA TEACH YOU THIS LESSON OLD MAN

[@thelonemask]

Interesting theory… except for the sword shaped elephant in the room. The master sword can only be wielded by those with the spirit of the hero. Also the spirit isn’t restricted to those of the same bloodline. I highly doubt that every single Link is related to one another.

[@MasterBlade111]

That’s why in game you have to go to the tower of the gods. Unlike the other games, player has to prove worthy of pulling the sword as some rando

[@ThomasCapella]

They aren't all blood related but they all are reincarnations. They all have the same tamashi or soul. So this does indeed apply to The Hero of Winds as well.

[@JamesJNothingIsTooSensitive]

​​@@ThomasCapellaThem having the same tamashi is true of all except the Wind Waker one. He earned the spiriton his own, just like the original Link did. So now there are two.

[@ramonandrajo6348]

"The Spirit of the Hero" (supernatural thing in Zelda games) DEPENDS on the bloodline, so no; you are wrong, again.

[@Skywolfhd20]

sorce: trust me bro@@ramonandrajo6348

[@connerkline6269]

Only issue is it didn’t actually stop the curse. Ganon isn’t the only incarnation of Demise’s hatred, just the one who’s been the most resilient. After Ganondorf, the Wind Waker timeline still had incantations of hatred such as Bellum and Malladus. Ganon has only reincarnated once in the timeline. Every other appearance was him escaping being sealed away, or being resurrected through magic. If Ganon isn’t around, another incarnation, like Vaati, Bellum or Malladus will appear to fill that role.

[@lazylurkerbro9855]

Wasn't Vaati one of Ganon's subjects in one of his games? Or am I mis-remembering things

[@3GearsTurning]

​@@lazylurkerbro9855He didn't serve Ganon, more, collaborated together in Four Swords Adventures. Evil events were happening, they thought ir was the seal on Vaati weakening, and in a desperate need, Link pulls the Four Sword and freeing Vaati in the process

[@homerman76]

Eh, I wouldn't classify Bellum as one, he's a being from a completely different world after all, it's like trying to classify Majora as an incarnation of Demise's hatred or the nightmare from Link's Awakening as such, or even Yuga from ALBW, except Bellum has even less of a connection to Hyrule than those three. They're all evil villains, but I just can't agree with that being enough to classify them as incarnations of Demise's hatred since they have no intentions for the land of Hyrule and only interact with the heroes by chance. You could maybe argue that the circumstance that brought each Link to interact with them could be a manifestation of the curse, but the beings themselves is just kind of a stretch when 3 out of the 4 originate from another world entirely and the 4th is just as its name entails, a nightmare. Vaati and Malladus are fair though since they are beings that directly oppose the hero and the royal line, Malladus even has the title of "Demon King" and a train with Ganondorf's face.

[@phhsdj]

@@homerman76that’s the point of that game because it established that the curse will follow Link and Zelda wherever they go. Even if they go to a different world. The spirit tracks reinforce that because they are now in a new place where they established the kingdom. Yet demise’s hate and malice still follows.

[@BigJonB36]

Problem is, we know Links generally tend to travel outside Hyrule after they defeat Ganon, and can settle anywhere. And while there's an implied romance between Link and Zelda in Breath of the Wild, it's usually implied in other games that their relationship is somewhat platonic if not downright professional.

[@alijoc]

Skywards Sword’s Link and Zelda definitely had romance. There’s a literal bg music titled “Romance” in the game

[@ramonandrajo6348]

BotW is not canon.

[@Maxolotl124]

​@@ramonandrajo6348well that's definitely a take

[@ramonandrajo6348]

@@Maxolotl124 ?

[@MasterBlade111]

@@ramonandrajo6348 it definitely is, if not just a soft reboot of the games

[@EricckkMoneyy7777NGL]

Apparently, Ganondorf is hidden away deep below Hyrule Castle in Hyrule Castle Chasm. Tears of the Kingdom was released in 2023 so it's still kinda new.

[@Hjhugj]

Very nice theory, but only Zelda’s reincarnations depend on blood. Also, many of the Ganons we fight are the same guy in a different situation.

[@turtlebear5951]

Ganon is usually brought back. Whereas the spirit of the hero is generally born again. Ganondorf can be the same Ganondorf in OOT and TP, and Ganon can be the same Ganon in Zelda 1 and LTTP. But that doesn’t mean the links have to be the same too

[@Hjhugj]

@@turtlebear5951 correct

[@SingingSealRiana]

yeah, and zelso is just as much part of the curse as link is

[@wophful]

I don't think he's saying all of the Links come from the same bloodline. The maiden in Link to the past says the hero has to be a Hylian knight. When he says “bloodline” he's saying the bloodline of a Hylian knight not the bloodline of the hero.

[@wophful]

So I guess Link’s reincarnation technically does depend on bloodline but just the bloodline of any Hylian knight.

[@BKScience812]

I'm surprised it wasn't mentioned that you become the hero by gathering the pieces of the Triforce of Courage. At that point, the Hero of Winds became equivalent to the legendary hero and started a new line. Just as we can speculate that he doesn't meet the requirements of "spirit of the hero" I can counterspeculate that he enters into the contract of the curse upon obtaining the Triforce of Courage and becomes the hero. Otherwise, this Link shouldn't be able to draw the Master Sword.

[@HEX33C1FF]

While the rest of your idea holds up, the requirement for drawing the Master Sword isn't quite so. The Master Sword chooses to recognize its wielder as a Hero, and as we know now from Fi in Skyward Sword and both BoTW and ToTK supporting her continued consciousness, the sword can both grant and deny someone the right to draw it, chosen hero or not.

[@BKScience812]

@@HEX33C1FF Cool! I thought you had to have the spirit of the hero, but I suppose that makes sense

[@FreeViewBlog]

@@BKScience812 I think having the Triforce of Courage basically just lets Fi not to have question if the Link trying to use the sword is worthy.

[@captianbacon]

The hero of the wilds is never once shown to weild a peice of the triforce. And he weilds the mastersword in 3 eras against the forces of ganon just fine after getting back in shape after his naps.

[@ashwinkarnik115]

This theory about Link is definitely explained in-game.

[@ichigoeater]

Didn't Ganondorf seem especially tired in Windwaker? I assume he never came back because his rage wasn't as eternal as he thought. Link in Windwaker became a knight by right during his quest, even piecing together the triforce of courage to claim it as his. Besides, that shield's triforce isn't upside down, and the fact that Outset's symbol is so close to the triforce (plus Orca's obsession with swords) tells me the whole island may be related to the knights of Hyrule. Knights get sent on missions, there's plenty of reasons for them to be south of Lake Hylia (perhaps a mission to dam the lake and evacuate citizens before the flood became too severe. Hyrule likely expanded after OOT, before the flood).

[@Maysmason1]

I wouldn’t think that because demise states it’s eternal on the blood line of the goddesses and If you say he ran out you also have to think of botw where it’s so far into the future that you can’t put it on the timeline and Ganon is still there reincarnated there so you can’t say it’s not that eternal

[@FlameoSir]

Honestly I think he never came back in that timeline simply because he got a sword imbedded in his head. The original master sword never shows back up in that timeline because its still there

[@leosnyder5264]

Do you have a Nintendo doesn't think things through because statues don't last forever sooner or later again I thought you would have broken the sword would have fallen out ​@@FlameoSirno

[@FlameoSir]

@@leosnyder5264 It's a magic statue if the sword came out Ganondorf gets revived it's not just regular stone now

[@FEWarrior89]

Much like Skyward Sword Link he proved himself a Hero The spirit of the Hero is not tied to simply bloodlines Zelda is however bound by her bloodline since she is Hylia reborn as a mortal. I think this curse is more bound to Hylia than Link whereas a more interesting theory would be that Hylia's Spirit of the hero "blessing" is imprinted of one worthy of wielding the Master Sword, The triforce of courage or sinply proving his worth like in Spirit Tracks Malladus is sadly another incarnation of Demise's hate so curse definitely not lifted.

[@salamencelvx]

Malladus being an incarnation of Demise's hatred is also mostly a theory, to be fair.

[@ramonandrajo6348]

Hero in name only, so no. XD

[@hilaryfireeyes]

And that’s why he’s the best Link! But My favorite personal theory it that the Link from BotW and TotK failed 100 years ago, because we weren’t there to play as him. They talk about how he changed after pulling the master sword, he become withdrawn. In order to be the hero he needs our guidance but we weren’t there, so he failed. It’s a bit loose but I think our involvement is the actual spirit of the hero.

[@nyeeeofthestarsz1804]

No cause there is a Link (if not more than one) that saved Hyrule from another of demise' reincarnation (we don't actually know if it's Ganondorf), and we never play as this Link, he's the Hero of Man mentioned in the intro of Minish Cap and he most likely had the spirit of the hero

[@soluna4784]

​@@nyeeeofthestarsz1804 also the hero before the Link from Skyward Sword, right?

[@The_baryonyxboi]

@@soluna4784no he was the first

[@soluna4784]

@@The_baryonyxboi but that doesn't affect my point? I'm asking if this theory would apply to him

[@itz_shadow]

​@soluna4784 no, it does, because, lore-wise, the spirit of the legend, is skyward link

[@churrosmcgee624]

This whole theory gets thrown out the window if Nintendo says that Windwaker Link is from a line of knights and those knights were just stationed away from the main castle. Theres no hard rule that says all knights must always be in or near the castle. Knights in history are just really cool and well trained soldiers working for someone powerful. Sure they stayed near the person they were working for but if the king says go attack that village and then the world floods its not like that guy was Un-knighted

[@MasterBlade111]

But that’s a large IF. Sure IF Nintendo said all the Mario games were different universes it would be. IF Nintendo said Pokémon used to live in Hyrule but they were all eaten, we’d believe them. But they didn’t, so it’s not

[@hioman]

I mean, nintendo will never say that because up until matpat's "a not hero will save the day" part, the theory isn't even a theory, it's straight up the original intent of the game

[@nodorog448]

​@MasterBlade111 I came here to point out Zelda isn't an answer because she is literally part if the curse, but saw both sides of the Nintendo forever untouched bring up, or attack those who brought it up(ineloquently from both sides). Then I saw your comment, and I thought about it. You do know the day Miyamoto loses his sway(forced out, or eventual death from old age), they will hand not only Zelda, but Mario to Game Freaks/Pokémon Company/whatever new international tax dodge name they go under. When that happens will you choose Pokémon Marinara in Mushroom Kingdom, or Pokémon Greek Olive in Hyrule?

[@Avruthlelbh]

That would directly go against what's stated in-game, and 'death of the author' would apply pretty directly here. The moment a game or anything is released, the original creator has no more authority over the interpretation than any other person. You can't make a direct statement in-game that someone is not, in fact, a hero by the rules set out in the game and then go "oh, actually, that's not true. I have decided that he IS the person we stated he's not." That's just lame and goes against what's directly presented to us.

[@ivolopez-felix5270]

Key word being "if"

[@lunggingyat5302]

Who’s watching when echoes of wisdom is out?

[@someonetyping]

If Demise's curse is ever legitimately/canonically broken, I always thought would be cool to see would be the triforce of courage, wisdom, and power (so Link, Zelda, and Ganon probably) all gangin up to beat some other foe threatening Hyrule instead of the usual courage + wisdom Vs Power :P

[@MasterBlade111]

That was the dream with totk 😂

[@divVerent]

You are triforcing the triforce. Who are you, Sierpiński?

[@someonetyping]

@@divVerent 👈😎👈

[@MajorMilk]

MatPat's theories often trail off into a pretty well written story of his own, and I think he should write his own book/movie.

[@MajorMilk]

@@CoolVideos-sc3kz MatPat has not seen any of your videos lil bro 🤣

[@Dapperganker]

​@@CoolVideos-sc3kzTHAT'S JUST A THEORY A FALSE THEORY

[@PharaohOfTheDamned]

If I ever manage to start a video game publishing company, I'm hiring MatPat to be my Lore Master cuz-

[@dicorddeucewolf3217]

Yeah, he should

[@OnlyforFydo]

Really cool idea! Thing is, forming a story using a different story as a launching point (often involving already established characters) is WAY different than writing your own unique story. You have to come up with your own characters, your own concepts, your own UNIVERSE. But yeah, beside that, I agree that MatPat might be able to make a killer book/movie.

[@AceAlbatros]

9:25 that doesn’t mean he stopped the curse, it could be that he just prolonged it. If you want a reference, think about how he’s been showed to lay dormant for thousands of years. Do you think Ganandorf, the “Demon King” would awaken again for a child that’s dealing with trains? No. He’s a strategist and wants utter darkness on the world.

[@homerman76]

Further, one could argue that Mallus is a part of the curse, especially when you consider his position as Demon King and possession of a train with Ganondorf's face on it, that last part is honestly a bit on the nose even.

[@ramonandrajo6348]

And that Link is still not the "Spirit of the Hero" anyway, do you have anything else to say, Nintendrone? XD

[@koviticus8348]

so correct me if im wrong but im pretty sure demise's hatred isnt just reincarnated as ganon. vati, Malladus, and pretty much every big evil guy that shows up is supposed to be from him. again I might be wrong but I think im on point about that

[@koviticus8348]

to add to that im pretty sure thats why almost all of the big bads usually have or end up getting the title "demon King"

[@cofagrigusfan24]

i think i spot 2 holes in this theory 1 - the ancestors of Toon Link, could have been from Windfall Island, and simply moved to Outset Island and 2 - the Triforce of Courage, it only bonds with the legendary hero, and Toon Link sure was able to bond with that golden triangle

[@cow972]

Unlike the others Heroes of Hyrule wind waker link wasn't born with the spirit of the hero and was just some random kid but the goddesses recognized his effort and gifted him the hero's spirit anyway

[@Niko__01]

nothing about the triforce of courage says it can only bind to the hero... it just binds to the most courageous person in the land... it just so happens that that happens to always be Link.

[@homerman76]

Actually the Triforce of Courage will bond with whoever embodies the trait of courage the most, it just happens to be that the hero of each game the Triforce connects with a person in is the person with the most courage (which makes sense when you consider the courage needed to go up against someone like Ganondorf.)

[@ajiprnk4821]

i think hero of winds somehow made a new spirit of hero since ther spirit of hero is in the child timeline

[@God-T]

off topic question. i'm still curious about links younger sister, doesn't that make her part hero too, his little sister is the reason why he left outset island. is it possible all links have long lost sister or it it just wind waker.

[@JmanTarget]

I’ve read a few commments here and they say some points that I really like, so I’ll reiterate: the link in windwaker is not the hero in the same way that the link in twilight princess is (my best example of that hero, who already has a piece of the triforce). Instead, he earns his place as a hero through his deeds, but most importantly, through collecting the triforce and then being bestowed with a piece of it. This might seem like a moot point, but the triforce doesn’t just into anybody, it only inhabits those who embody the force it represents. For the triforce of courage, in troubling times, only link can embody this courage, and thus he is the only one worthy of three triforce. That’s why after the king of hyrule uses the triforce to make a wish, it still goes back to inhabit link’s body. He in that moment proves that he has the spirit of the hero, earned through his deeds not given through his bloodline

[@tensazangetsu551]

I'm surprised you didn't mention how the Hero of Winds gained the right to call himself the Hero of Courage. After his first trip to the Tower of Gods, he was quested to find the 8 fragments of the "Triumph Forks!"...😅...I mean the 8 fragments of the Triforce of Courage. Only then would he have the right to challenge Ganondorf according to the gods. His gaining the fragment of Courage created a new hero not born with the attachment to the curse tied to the original Courage fragment. All Heroes before him were all born with the Courage fragment. Having to find and assemble it wouldn't make him part of the cycle.

[@crimsonreaper5679]

I mean Matpat has not been in the Zelda lore seen for a while so it makes sense he would miss many things.

[@BlitzerXYZ]

He is still part of the cycle tho. MatPat is just kinda wrong there. And is especially wrong about Zelda

[@loft777]

Almost like he didn't play the game!!

[@sonic4life]

Well, that's complicated. Isn't the reason for the Triforce of courage being shattered due to OoT Link going back to the past? And OoT Link wasn't "born" with it, he got it because Ganon exploited him and touched the Triforce in the sacred realm with an unbalanced heart. Link being a candidate for the triforce of courage could be due to his quest and meeting all the prerequisites and actually opening the sacred realm. In fact, the only hero born with his piece is TP.

[@RadTroppy]

MatPat: Zelda should be the next playable character Nintendo: we got you

[@bobbysmith3503]

There a problem with your little theory at the end: Zelda is also tied to Demise's curse. At the end of Skyward Sword Demise states that "Those like you… those who share the blood of the goddess and the spirit of the hero… they are eternally bound to this curse." Both Link and Zelda are tied to the curse. If the curse makes it so that Ganon will come back after being defeated by someone bound to the curse, like the spirit of the hero, what makes Zelda any different?

[@spacemarz.]

I love how all the heroes are "I'm the hero so I have to do something" and wind waker link is "I'm gonna save my sister and save the world on the side". he's not a hero, he's just a boy that did something, and I love him for it

[@PikaLink91]

But that in turn makes him a hero. Not the spirit of the hero, but a hero through action.

[@Confron7a7ion7]

He's just a dude from a little island who did NOT take kindly to a big bird snatching up his sister. Ganon just messed with the wrong island.

[@TheArcSet]

I mean, that's pretty much true of most Links, except BoTW: they react to an evil attack, start being heroic, then someone officially gives then a task to save the world ... or they wander into the final dungeon. Saving the tribe Elder, saving your horse, saving your girlfriend, saving your sister. In that order.

[@PikaLink91]

@OfficialmurdJapanese "lol"?

[@bifem]

Yes this is all true but there are a few holes in it. Only the chosen hero can use the master swords power. He also takes on the trials of the games. As for being a royal knight isnt traveling with the red lion (king of hyrule) give him the title? As well as recieving the triforce of courage. The way i see it he didnt start as the hero but ending up becoming it.

[@grandmasterjayd1184]

Exactly, he tempered his soul to fit the part. It’s essentially starting the cycle over.

[@Orchip16]

​@@grandmasterjayd1184yeah the cycle needed to start again because link in oot straight up vanished in the adult timeline

[@God-T]

@@grandmasterjayd1184 so does this mean wind waker link is just like ocarina link did he re-started the bloodline or is it brand new one, this is a very interesting discussion also he has a younger sister so its possible he created his own bloodline, i believe he might be connect to breath of the wild link.

[@nebroxit8839]

10:50 Mat got it right! Echoes of Wisdom is coming out in a few months, one with Zelda as the main character. Nice one!

[@ReinBelmont]

4:41 Toon Link literally receives an *Accolade* from the old knights of Hyrule the moment he picks up the Master Sword. HE GETS KNIGHTED RIGHT THERE.

[@Bearman851]

MatPat... we already know the Hero of the Winds is disconnected from every other hero. That's the point of his story. He wasn't chosen by birthright; he claimed the title himself. Also Hyrule Warriors isn't canon, though I do agree it could solve a lot of problems that we have from BOTW and TOTK.

[@Eclipse_101]

Yeah, Link from the Wind Waker isn’t the hero of Legend. He just took up the mantle to save his sister. Edit: Didn’t Demise literally say that those who carry the blood of the goddess, and who carries the spirit of the hero, are *both* bound to his curse? You’re completely ignoring part of his dialogue at the end of the video which you already acknowledged earlier, Matpat…

[@Ty-yt3lj]

Beats the Hero of Trains, who was literally just an apprentice engine-driver who got roped into something far more complex

[@3xeplodng_3agle_studios]

​@@Ty-yt3ljspirit tracks Link and Zelda are direct descendants(far removed grandkids) of wind waker/phantom hourglass Link and Zelda. It's in-lore.

[@Saitaina]

Yup, it's the spirit which Twilight Princess shows isn't literal since you meet a previous hero. Yes, moat links have been ofa Knights bloodline, but not all (may O point to Ocarina in which we have no idea who his parents are, just that they died. That Link is connected to the Knights by literally being one (confirmed in Twilight Princess).

[@Black0Luigi]

DID you miss the bigges piece of evidence that WW Link isn't a Hero? WW takes place in the adult timeline. Link returns to the child timeline at then of OOT meaning there is no Hero in the adult timeline to die and be reborn. This is part of the plot of the story it is why the Gannondorf of WW is the same Gannondorf from OOT.

[@mrskyzear]

that last part would hit really hard if they chose to do it. through all these games we've kinda been going a legend of link but finally after all that, it really did end up being the legend of zelda. that would be incredibly cool

[@jonasalbert7963]

But nonsensical as Zelda is roped into the curse so the cycle would keep going

[@jamesvarkey173]

Because Gannon says and the person with the blood of the goddess

[@yeezyyankie324]

Do Game Theory about DS Lego Battles

[@getshwifty3101]

There's one MAJOR problem with this theory MatPat: The curse is to battle over HYRULE, and by extension the Triforce, for all eternity. Take a wild guess at what happens to Hyrule at the end of Wind Waker? That's right, it and therefore the Triforce, get destroyed forever. THAT'S why Ganondorf never came back. The thing he longed for, that he REALLY kept coming back for, no longer existed.

[@phhsdj]

But the cruse does not lift it just continue in other forms, that’s why we have the next two games in that timeline.

[@getshwifty3101]

@@phhsdj It could maybe be argued for Bellum. MAYBE. But it doesn't really apply to Spirit Tracks. That showed the whole backstory for that "Demon King." Why do you think there hasn't been anymore in that timeline? They defeated the evil that originally plagued that land, and now.....they're literally just at peace. It COULD absolutely change later, but until then: They are no longer plagued in a cycle as far as we can tell. (Edit) Plus, it explains why that timeline ends so much quicker than the others. Spirit Tracks is about as far past OoT as TP is. About 100 or so years. Yet, it just.....ends?? Just seems kinda weird, since the other 2 go centuries afterwards.

[@wesnohathas1993]

@@phhsdj It really doesn't. Phantom Hourglass takes place in a different world entirely, and Malladus clearly had an extensive history in the land that eventually became New Hyrule.

[@Amicus22]

No way matpat just casually predicted Echoes of wisdom 😭🙏

[@zendrith5018]

I love that there is another Zelda theory on Wind Waker; its my favorite game! My only problem with it is that I feel like the team forgot about how the Tower of the Gods. That entire temple was basically built to be a godly "verify your the Hero" Captia

[@CommanderButter]

I never thought the Wind Waker Link was part of the spirit of the hero since I learned about that being a thing (I also grew up with Wind Waker so I was familiar with the whole, "you're chosen to be a hero, not the chosen hero" thing). Zelda is apart of the curse so I don't think her killing Ganon is the solution, we just need another really determined, completely unrelated child to put an end to the Prince of Darkness once and for all

[@LordSiravant]

Except the whole point of the curse is that so long as the Spirit of the Hero and the bloodline of the Goddess endure, so will the Incarnation. As long as Link and Zelda both continue to exist, (and their existence is necessary for Hyrule's continued safety) Ganondorf will always come back.

[@adrianstrider4960]

I don't know much about wind walker or anything, but I would like to point out a flaw in the theory... The curse calls out both Hylia reborn and the spirit of the hero. Taking out the spirit of the hero does nothing when you have the other pillar, either way... But it also means, thematically, Zelda can't be the one to end Demise 's curse. She's bound to it as well. Edit:written whildt half asleep. Will fix when not so tired, but thought it needed to be said

[@mattleonard4689]

Also Wind Waker didn't end the curse, because evil still followed Link and Zelda, just in forms that weren't Ganon-like

[@maxthemagician8698]

Hero of the Wind wasn’t given his title, he earned it

[@infernogrid5386]

YES! A ZELDA THEORY! ITS BEEN YEARS!

[@Accountthatexists]

@MerlinMersis this account is a bot

[@SingingSealRiana]

is not zelda just as much part of the curse as link and ganondorf are?!

[@h0m3st4r]

@@Accountthatexists Another one of FieRcE's bots, to be exact.

[@kirby3219]

too bad it's factually incorrect.

[@Accountthatexists]

@@kirby3219 average game theory hater, rip Bozo☠️

[@blaze.L]

11:15 but the curse is tied to both the spirit of the hero and the blood of the goddess. So even if zelda defeats ganondorf he still will reincarnate

[@_Wildcard_]

I just noticed that the curse is bound to Zelda in addition to Link. It states “Those who share the blood of the goddess and the spirit of the hero”, matpat further explains this goddess being Zelda. Just a thought though. 3:42

[@KGB.Official]

I noticed that too, so if Zelda is included in the curse, how is she gonna be able to slay Gannon? Food for thought

[@laplongejunior]

​​​​@@KGB.Official Semantics. Skyward Zelda created the kingdom of hyrule so she + her Link have birthed the royal family. As a result, a lot of Hylians have "the blood of the goddess" and not only Zelda Meanwhile, "the spirit of the hero" is not a biological thing. So zelda would have the blood of the goddess but NOT the spirit of the hero So as long you're not the destined hero, you can make a difference. That was already a theme of Skyward Sword with the actions of Groose. I agree with Matpat : if destiny didn't intend Zelda to do the deed, she can break the cycle

[@DrewIera]

True I was about to say the exact same thing 😂😅 mat pat over thought it again hahaha

[@novagaming5429]

its unfair to say you NEED to be in castle town to be a knight when the hero of twilight was literally the furthest away from castle town as possible

[@feierabenddude3353]

Somehow i find it amusing to say that, after a massive Flood, the Hyrulian knights should still be near the castle. At that point it would also make sense that they just move to a better location, one with more space, food and better life condition. And yes, Outset Isle looks like one of the best suited Islands to live there. Plus, you say the shield has no indication... but what about the Clothes? Why should some random outsiders carry on the kokirian Clothing style (since the Story stems from the OoT Timelime, it should be Kokiri/Lost Wood right?). The Kokiris itself seemed to vanish and the koroks are kinda their spiritual sucessors. ... So: The only reason why they still have to tradition to clad a boy at a certain Age in green is: They are Hyrulians and still keeping the traditions after all those years.

[@Yuri_FFCC]

11:08 I mean, doesn't Demise's curse bound both the bloodline of the spirit of the hero *and* the goddess?

[@randomperson-hw6xb]

I personally like to think, the hero's spirit being the player. Making Wind waker Link still possess the hero's spirit.

[@BardicLasher]

But doesn't that mean Mario ALSO has the spirit of the hero?

[@3xeplodng_3agle_studios]

​​@@BardicLasherno. Because the spirit is bound to hyrule. Never stated but notice how all the easter eggs and cameos in Nintendo games are noticeable but still overall very minor? The powers and entities are all bound to the lands they come from. Only way to transfer them is for them to be physically brought to the other lands. (Link going to the mushroom kingdom though if he died there, I don't know if the spirit and triforce of courage would be stuck, or go back to hyrule's location) DISCLAIMER: this is _NOT_ an official in-lore statement. It just makes magical and logical sense.

[@FedericoVetencourt]

I always understood demise's curse when it said "a reincarnation of my hatred" to be ANY and ALL Zelda villains, not only Ganon. So Vaati, the weird one from the Spirit Tracks, The Nightmare from Link's Awakening, etc... all are reincarnations of Demise's Hatred

[@clasherking4528]

I feel like you have the right idea of someone not bound by the curse taking up the mantle and slaying gannon (possibly even being trained by both link and zelda to combine the power they each held separately) but unfortunately this might be a case of "you did the wrong work but somehow still got the right answer" which is still commendable

[@ryansmith841]

I think this theory has a few flaws. Chief among them is the idea that everyone simply stayed on the islands they fled to when the Great Flood happened. It's very possible that the Hero of Winds's family was a part of the knightly bloodline but some ancestor of his took a boat to Outset Island. Additionally, even if we accept that having someone without the spirit of the hero would end Demise's curse, Zelda couldn't end the curse. The curse is tied to the blood of the goddess (Zelda) and the spirit of the hero.

[@Teneykio]

Fun theory! Gotta say though, LttP requirements for Hero are the requirements for THAT incarnation of a hero. That means another "Hero" doesn't have to meet those requirements. Meanwhile I believe the real reason why Ganondorf doesn't come back after Wind Waker is only because he's stuck as stone. I guarantee you that some day, the Masters Sword will be drawn from a stone, and suddenly the stone begins to shake and Ganondorf breaks out of the stone.

[@ramonandrajo6348]

No, not really. XD

[@Art_KorokLoz]

And thats how echos of wisdom was born

[@flintswenson8234]

What about the theory that Wind Waker Link was a decendent of the Hero of the Minish Link. Which was the first game in the timeline to show the Antiquity Sheild.

[@sandshew4158]

The statement about a knights bloodline could be for the legend in Link to the Past. Otherwise we might need to question Spirit Tracks Link (train engineer), NES Link(not alot of story), Between Worlds Link(blacksmith helper), and Twilight Princess Link(ranch hand). I'm unfamiliar with Minish Cap and the Four Swords.

[@Darkedor]

Neat, I haven't been able to play TOTK yet and I watched this video with caution. After getting the idea that it wouldn't get too deep into TOTK MatPat goes and elbow drops a spoiler of the ending, right at the end. Neat, just neat.

[@SudsyCola]

I know that feeling, Google had already spoiled it for me and other videos spoiled some other stuff I either didn't get a warning or I was dumb and skipped the spoiler warning.

[@Andrew-vl7re]

Same here he just dropped it so casually

[@TheAstrolabe]

i mean its literally a lore theory of the franchise you didn't want spoiled, how did you think it was gonna work out?

[@finixmoon127]

​@@TheAstrolabe Fr, like why would you even click on the video if you're afraid of getting spoiled ?

[@thepbrit]

@@TheAstrolabe I think it's fair to assume watching a video solely about the first avengers movie not to mention the fact Tony Stark dies in endgame

[@isakblomberg528]

When you were saying "someone else we've seen countless iterations of who's normally just a damsel in distress", I was praying really hard that you wouldn't say Tingle. I would have died.

[@vic77krack52]

3:38 "Those sharing the blood of the goddess are bound to the curse" Zelda: Has the blood of the goddess Matpat: ZELDA IS ABLE TO BREAK THE CURSE, SHE IS NOT RELATED TO IT

[@PikaLink91]

9:30 Question, Mr. Matpat sir: While I can buy the theory that this timeline's Ganon was unable to ever resurrect again due to not being defeated by the spirit of the hero, the curse from Skyward also says that his rage and hatred will force him to come back whenever a new hero is born. Where then is the true hero in Wind Waker? Because according to the curse he must be around somewhere... just didn't get the memo to get out and fight Ganon.

[@Commenter51]

Maybe he died in the flood (lol)

[@solidskullz5736]

You’re right, Link isn’t who we think he is. Link is secretly CHRIS PRATT

[@nextgenbatman04]

But that's just a theory.

[@grookeymon]

A GAMEEE THEOORRYYY

[@LadybugsOpin]

A Zelda movie is coming. Please don't let this comment be prophetic.

[@ego-lay_atman-bay]

Honestly, it's kind of funny that I watched this video today. Why? Well, my family was actually talking about this same topic at dinner, how link in wind waker is not actually link.

[@Pale-xr2ie]

11:12 No, actually she is not. She’s a descendant of the Goddess Hylia which was included in the curse. You either didn’t pay full attention when the script was written, or the script deliberately ignored that information to further the narrative that Zelda should be the protagonist; which I’d argue,isn’t the protagonist that fit the theme of the games. The Legend Of Zelda is about Link continuous choice to pick up the sword and shield and sacrifice his personal life to protect those around. Link doesn’t save Hyrule because he doesn’t choose to do this because of his societal status/role, and he’s not part of a royal family who’s parents instill that duty to protect the sovereignty of Hyrule(Zelda), Link does it explicitly because he cares about those around him: his friends, his family. Zelda isn’t the representation of the courage to raise arms against an enemy to protect those around you, she’s a princess/soon to be queen that’s the sum of the wisdom that her royal family provides her, and that’s proven by her triforce piece being of wisdom, not courage. This video was made with a startling high amount of apathy and ignorance towards a artful series that’s been proven to be golden as is, and should NOT lose it’s identity because someone took one glance of the title and said: “It’s called ‘The Legend Of Zelda, so it should have a protagonist that shares that name, it’s totally fallen behind the times in terms of ‘the message’ and should be changed for ‘modern audiences’ “ Taking a work of art and twisting it to fit YOUR character is how you destroy culture. Because what is art, if not culture; what is culture if not social duty and hardships. Now what happens if you remove the hardships and struggles that a character faces? I’ll tell you what happens, you create a new character and DESTROY the idea of the old character. If you think you want a new character in a story you’re writing, don’t name it the character you are looking to replace, just create a new character. If you replace beloved characters with new characters without changing the name of the new character, you are making it appear as though the identity of the character that came before, never existed. Now that’s a very, very, scary thing, and a very bad thing to do. Don’t do that!

[@maartio2077]

AGREED 😭

[@hades6354]

It's just a theory man

[@zachwackchannel]

It's not that deep 😂

[@toryplays7776]

Mat, you just got a person who has never engaged with this series (except pop-culture references, of course), very invested and quite interested!

[@hioman]

The best part is, unlike most of his theories, up until 9 minutes in its just a lore recap, so if you ever play wind waker you won't be finding everything matpat says to be completely missing the mark (again, until 9 minutes in when he starts drawing conclusions from the lore recap without actually finishing the game)

[@templatus006]

When MatPat said "It would be a legend that would be passed down from generation, to generation. A legend of the descendant of the goddess. The Legend of Zelda." Chills man. Literal chills.

[@kingzach74]

The problem is it wouldn't work. Zelda's bloodline is included in the curse along with Link. Zelda is part of the bloodline of the goddess which means if she defeats Gannon or Ganondorf it would start the cycle over. Zelda can't be part of the cure.

[@nworder4life]

Zeltik said it first

[@BATZ7_Gaming]

@@nworder4life And?

[@lasercraft32]

A hero is not defined by their bloodline, but rather the strength of their courage and the selflessness of their actions.