Game Theory: Spiderman is a CRIMINAL! (Spider Man PS4)

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Peter Park is the everyman, the good guy turned hero. Our friendly, neighborhood Spider-Man. Right? Over on Film Theory I told you how Superman had been perpetuating LIES as a reporter. Well, what if I told you Spider-Man is WORSE? Today Theorists, I'm tearing away the mask of innocent reporter to show you the TRUTH!
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[@hereisnickscott]

J. Jonah Jameson is one of the best characters in comics and this theory is a good example why. In most every representation of him whether it is the comics (though with such a deep history JJJ has done more villainous things in that medium but he's also done very good things not only for peter parker but many other people), the Sam Raimi movies, or this game he's always depicted has hating spider-man and spreading wild theories about him, but there's always more to him than that and a certain grain of truth in his words. JJJ is always shown to have enough integrity to stand up for others, wether it's not selling out peter parker when the green goblin is literally threatening his life in spider-man 1, or the many examples you've shown in this game, what makes Jonah so endearing is that behind the rough exterior he really does a good heart behind him when greed or his vendetta against spider-man doesn't get in the way. One of the better examples of Jonah's good side was his role in the Silk comics, where he was constantly supportive and cared about Cindy Moon.

[@jesus-qd5ol]

dascottman33 jeez😰

[@Nash-]

He still constantly tries to ruin Peter Parker's career tho

[@dohatom]

*_TL;DR_*

[@siegfried7988]

HERO JJJ

[@ichisirus]

J. Jona Jameson is the Marvel universe version of Alex Jones only...BETTER!!! Because of the crazy things going on, you need JJJ to deal crazy!

[@Keijo_]

The virus thing at the end was way too relevant for being over a year old and it makes me uncomfortable

[@peregrinus4832]

Me too

[@dylanhansen2352]

JJJ: The whole city is quarantined Me: congratulations, you’re a prophet

[@lillyz.3674]

My eyes literally went wide when I heard that part

[@kkmusiclover_3148]

Josh Ikeda that’s what I was thinking

[@degnut9215]

He predicted it

[@damiandiaz147]

“Jared write that down that was a good one” The best line

[@braxtonvillagran2664]

That’s on par with, “MOM, GET THE CARMRA!”

[@MastaofPasta]

It's actually amazing how similar that JJ impression at the start is to his appearance in No Way Home, including the product placement!

[@SuperiorCase]

HE GUESSED IT

[@g0tchadude356]

It was his Film theory

[@Memes-wm4kf]

I like to think marvel got the product placement idea from this video

[@Casper-hj1lb]

@@Memes-wm4kf we all do

[@samuelprince4719]

Yep, he nailed it.

[@ToxiChaos]

MatPats depiction of J. Jonah Jameson in the MCU was terrifyingly accurate...

[@prowthegamer]

Fr

[@Kooale-rx7jf]

@@prowthegamer because marvel hired him as a storywritter lol

[@changvasejarik62]

J.Jonah Jameson saying “You have to do better!” Both better and Before falcon and winter soldier since 1963.

[@Nova-my5ki]

@That One Genshin Dude it was revealed to me in a dream

[@carloscool7662]

even the suplements fr

[@DyrianLightbringer]

"Canonically Spider-Man's web dissolves in about an hour, something he even admits in the game." "Those won't hold long" 55 backpacks...

[@kharnthebetrayer8251]

I think in the game he says he has different types of webbing. So the Temporary ones he brings around during crime fighting, so people aren't having to clean up all the webbing, just the residue it leaves. And then more permanent one for his projects

[@Not_RyomenSukuna]

@@kharnthebetrayer8251 this is too much for my brain ;-;

[@thepanthion]

What if they're high on a building stuck to the wall? It'd evaporate and they'd fall..

[@Not_RyomenSukuna]

@@thepanthion coom.

[@lrkcm373]

Casually forgets that some backpacks have been webbed for upwards of 8 years.

[@robertcarrillo8485]

Fun fact in the comics Jonah admits he's hard on Spider-Man to push him to be better. Since one time when he started to be on spidey's side he lost his son because Spider-Man couldn't save him. He then blamed himself for not pushing Spider-Man to be better and went right back to berating him. Jonah knowingly acts as a force to push Spider-Man to be better in most mediums, he actually appreciates Spider-Man behind the scenes.

[@letyzelaya824]

Yes he does this is more proof he’s a good guy also no one replied on this comment so I am.

[@kareemcheese3.0]

A

[@stephenbyrne2170]

I don't believe that. And I never will, unless I hear it from his mouth.

[@alanalvarez2153]

yeah, and in other part, he created an anti-spider unit wich caused destruction to the whole city and used all its founds, just to capture spiderman.... JJ is confusing

[@Davis...]

*W I C H* *C O M I C*

[@taylandube3526]

gotta love how in Spiderman no way home j.jonah actually advertised something matpat must be psychic

[@jasonfrancis9262]

The character is an Alex Jones expy. Not exactly a prescient prediction

[@jensennguyen02]

I think what makes spiderman as a character great is that Jonah is right, theres no reason to trust someone like spiderman. A vigilante who no one knows what they are thinking and no training. However Spiderman flies against that completely because his intentions are always pure and he knows exactly what he is doing in a situation. Its hard to question who spiderman is when he has built this career where he is able to save everyone he comes across

[@youngstay2989]

“Do not violate the quarantine, stay in your homes..” *uncomfortable because of what i heard gang*

[@mahfuzvx3967]

Bruh

[@youngstay2989]

Mahfuz VX like i mean he knew what was gonna happen since the beginning...

[@mahfuzvx3967]

@@youngstay2989 insomniac knew what was up.Give or take a year.

[@ax_lz]

lol I just got spider man in may and when I got to the devil's breath part it always reminded me of corona

[@thecarnivoroustoe1778]

S A M E

[@neverknown2054]

Also, J Jonah Jameson knows that Spider-Man listens to his podcasts, and him calling out Spider-Man and pushing him to be better is something he does consciously.

[@vortexfighter6544]

was playing the game again and then I got that line I even stoped to listen

[@notmacncheese3545]

@@vortexfighter6544 same

[@drewchristopher4609]

@@notmacncheese3545 i always stop to listen when i get close to targets

[@royalflush7768]

I love how he managed to perfectly predict how jj was gonna look in the mcu town to the plug for energy supplements

[@O.D25]

0:26 Wow, matpat called it

[@TheDanielk4]

Even down to the supplements 😂

[@FrogEnjoyer17]

* J. Jonah Jameson slaps desk * *I WANT PICTURES OF SPIDERMAN*

[@MrSkysenGames]

*~slaps desk~* You can fit so many pictures of Spider-Man on this thing!

[@dappercharmer9176]

Nice Meme MatPat: This is a KZbin channel about Videogame theories J. Jonah Jamieson: *slaps desk* Then bring me theories of Spiderman!

[@akmask1258]

*HES A MENACE*

[@officerspider7996]

*J. Jonah Slaps Peter* THIS BAD BOY BRINGS ME PICTURES OF SPIDER-MAN

[@Thesprittomb05]

"Law and order" DUN DUN

[@KEBIN-hypothermic]

MatPat predicted the JJJ web news in spiderman : far form home

[@jack8bit]

I just realized that as well

[@galacto8769]

Yeah

[@mittens5789]

Bruh spoilers

[@datrandomdugggy5537]

@@mittens5789 the movies been out for a while now if you haven't seen it yet thats your fault

[@alexkpi1h_iykwim879]

@@mittens5789 its been out since July 2nd ur fault for not seeing it yet

[@SuperiorCase]

0:36 HE PREDICTED IT

[@kaimorgan4976]

His bit about JJJ was so insanely accurate to No Way Home

[@dubiousdeliquite6641]

Huh, he dealt with the quarantine better than tons of people did in real life

[@conchi1868]

:/

[@carlosarce3743]

What

[@dubiousdeliquite6641]

Carlos Arce saying "stay inside with your families, dont go running around in the city, if we try to leave the city it will only spread the disease making the cure take longer to develop", stuff like that, when in real life during covid a ton of numbskulls kept constantly going out into town with their friends At least in my town

[@carlosarce3743]

Dubious Deliquite okay I said what because I did not understand but until I watched the whole video

[@captainofensivo1855]

Its True😉

[@hatenate7921]

"Peter Parker helped Otto Octavius create this incredibly dangerous prosthetic, then DOESNT SHOW UP TO WORK ON TIME!" That bastard.

[@nin3509]

O noes how could you spooder man

[@shadowultr8646]

I mean u can't always be on time while ur TRYING to save NYC and I mean trying because his fisk take down was him trying to take down the grandfather and end that whole mess

[@scarletpsychowolf3578]

Peter did tell him to not use the neural interface because it would affect his mind, but noooo, seconds after Peter left, he immediately turned it back on while watching the news about Osborn

[@DiegoGonzalez-we7cn]

Nah you the basterd

[@DiegoGonzalez-we7cn]

Bastard

[@vippandabear2870]

Throughout the game I thought that the main issues with spiderman that JJJ has had a lot of truth to it. But when he says things like spiderman is flying through smog clouds to get high and that spiderman is eating pigeons is when he loses me

[@kylearmitage9323]

MattPatt was actually pretty accurate to how J Jonah Jamison would be in no way home

[@masonheitner8410]

Quarantine? Troops arresting protesters? Jonah J. Sir, you have predicted the future. And you are on the right side of history for both.

[@captainofensivo1855]

Thank you young man

[@jazzyethecrimefighter]

@Lonely Underscore those are rioters not protesters theres a difference.

[@snazzymask9620]

I'm sorry? You call those protestors? I call them street terrorists.

[@jazzyethecrimefighter]

@@snazzymask9620 there are still peaceful protests going on not all of them are violent

[@fart648]

Yeah troops arresting protesters because they got Molotovs thrown at them because a few officers abused there abilities while everyone else has to pww are h the price

[@Henke_YT]

This video was made by J Jonah Jameson gang

[@oboelord4610]

More like cave johnson

[@elizathegamer413]

@@oboelord4610 Honestly yeah I thought that too

[@weebaverage3026]

No joke, I was gonna joke about this

[@Iamstickman]

@@oboelord4610 he's not voiced by Cave Johnson in this game. He's voiced by Reinhardt. Also Ardyn.

[@Lambda_Ovine]

That meme is dead already.

[@Robin_Is]

It is astounding how MatPat predicted the MCU's, J. Jonah Jameson.

[@Fernando-ek8jp]

One of the biggest problems with the Kingpin argument is that, well, you know: the police was the one doing the raid. Spider-Man helped, but without him you'd have: dozens of dead cops and a fugitive Kingpin with a still diminished enough presence

[@bibigamer502]

Apparently it was Spider-Man’s fault that the police were on their way to arrest Fisk

[@venusstar2963]

@@bibigamer502 Spiderman brought them the evidence needed to convict Fisk for his crimes, and assisted in his arrest. This does not change the fact that the Police were already seeking out the information needed to bring Fisk to justice. The power vaccum would have happened sooner or later, Spiderman's intervention merely sped up the process.

[@bibigamer502]

@@venusstar2963 and did Spider-man or the police know what was going to happen after that?

[@venusstar2963]

@@bibigamer502 Not specifically the rise of power of Li and the demons, but as far as predicting a potential gang war, I would say that yes, they anticipated it.

[@bibigamer502]

@@venusstar2963 and they were already working on making the city safer pior to Li and the demons attacking were they not

[@GFDIAA]

Nice try JJJ , we know its you

[@unheardtuna1998]

Oh god he almost fooled me thanks for revealing the truth

[@Diagonalstuff]

Shinoop the Daily Bugle sponsored this

[@janjan5690]

And remember that's just a theory

[@jameschung6106]

Yeah, but it could be true🤫

[@UserName-me7pj]

@@afoxperson6194 If it weren't for Spiderman, those villains wouldn't be everywhere. Really his fault.

[@shittyname2657]

This video was sponsored by the daily bugle.

[@christroyer69]

👏 👏 👏

[@cooperfrasca7617]

clappity clap clap clap my dude

[@EyeHeytEwe]

BugleWars😂

[@robertkovarna8294]

You mean Just the facts with J. Jonah Jameson. To keep in line with Spider-man ps4.

[@INDRA027_]

Obviously

[@deaconpoole7577]

I love how Matpat was SPOT ON with modern JJ with this one. 😂

[@IanIsSwag]

I like to imagine that Spider-Man knows this- in Spider-Man miles morales when he gets the suit from Peter, it’s connected to the JJJ podcast and he says “the guys a masochist” but I like to believe it’s because he intended on Miles listening to JJJ and realizing that he DOES push you to be better and is a decent guy under the surface

[@DragonballBlack]

J. Jonah Jameson Hacked The Game Theorists Channel!

[@dejinnthedjinn5311]

Yo, never expected you to be here

[@darkcubix1181]

Same

[@darkcubix1181]

Lol

[@elizabethgouverneur2972]

BlackScape you are the best man

[@Coolhand118]

Lol

[@joel9104]

I cant believe how correct matpat was with that intro bit

[@lof1l769]

the fact that his skit is accurate with how it happened in no way home cracks me up

[@aussietalks6642]

10:16 we ain’t gonna talk about how he just threw GARBAGE INTO THE OCEAN

[@2kgaming225]

That was what u had to do for a side mission I have the game

[@karu671]

Its a sewer, garbage ain't the only thing going in the ocean. XD

[@obiwankenobi1377]

Oh yehh! GRETA GET IN HERE

[@giraffe9676]

sPoIlEr AlErT fOr Far From Home: THEY ADDED THE DAILY BUGLE AS AN AFTER CREDITS SCENE.

[@emmarose2628]

I seen that movie before so i tapped it

[@awesomegaymer5786]

@@liuyuchenliuyuchen2486 were you honestly surprised? hes a member of the sinister six

[@danorose9746]

I know! I can’t believe it!

[@omarditz2833]

Yeah it was terrible reaveling his identity

[@talkedcookie9463]

Yeah I have eyes and can here too! Crazy

[@rylanlakatos9736]

5:38 LiKe AmOnG uS!!!!111!!

[@the_middle_twix488]

Wow it’s almost scary how well MatPat nailed what Jameson would be in the MCU 👏👏

[@Mrs.Keisha1]

“Releases a virus all over New York” that quote hasn’t aged well 👀

[@donkor3849]

it has aged extremely well

[@loading4354]

*"Think Spider-man Think, you're a Menace!"* -JJJ

[@fatimazz]

Amazing reference.

[@quentin1330]

@Abraham Lincoln Amazing pun

[@jockeyfield1954]

"What do you expect to have at the end of your crime fighting?!" "You... Jameson..."

[@nojob16]

One more like and 500

[@TheZestyJester09]

Peter: when will I get to save you? J.J.J: that's the best pet, you don't

[@qwerple2749]

The intro aged really well

[@Deitiess]

11:36 is the most cursed thing I’ve ever seen

[@e.w.3711]

I've seen worse

[@monpak1]

the quarantine part is literally today

[@connor.k2012]

Me: Send pic Her: what you wanna see? 😉😜 Me: Spider-man Her: What?? Me: *bangs fist on table in anger*

[@jollyjelly2880]

Connor. K I SAID SPIDER-MAN GODDAMMIT

[@sammypines1837]

SPIDERMAN. ARE YOU DEAF WOMAN. I WANT SPIDERMAN

[@nocommentarygaming8123]

BRING ME SPIDERMAN

[@imayeti.4674]

Connor. K her:umm I SAID SpIDErMAN

[@130_]

I NEED SPIDER MAN!!!

[@Yeeeeeeeehawcowboy]

his depiction of modern JJJ ended up being so darn accurate lol

[@Seabassthebass1101]

This intro looking back is VERY CLOSE scary close to the NWH scene

[@aduck5011]

Proud of Matpat for getting his new job at the Daily bugle👍👍

[@generalkenobi776]

I read this as daily bulge lol

[@smoov22_sonic]

what is up daily bugle nation

[@brokengames9020]

scamderman is a criminal... what a revelation.

[@tyrant-den884]

That is my head cannon from now on.

[@mojonoahgamer5647]

He might have taken over

[@vicool217]

I have a problem with Matt’s argument. Spider-man brutally kicks people around and punches them and fights them brutally, but they get up and fight like nothing happened each time even if they are only 1 hit away from a K.O. So maybe the people in this world are just more resilient.

[@dajuanwhitaker1785]

I'm late to this but also those same thugs that spiderman is fighting "brutally" are throwing molotovs, have taser wands and shooting him. Hell even when the police say that they don't need his help it's evidently clear that they do otherwise they wouldn't take so damn long to stop those riots.

[@YTHandlesSuck]

That’s video game physics for ya lol

[@TheUnseenFuture]

Many comics and sources say spider man is holding back because if he wasn't, one punch can dislocate a jaw and just maim a man's face. But still, when web swinging is involved, that's more tricky.

[@ked49]

@@TheUnseenFutureclean off,

[@lcc2348]

honestly I'm convinced there's a knock off super serum that all of New York's criminals have just to survive a fight with Spider-Man

[@prestonlogan3808]

Another thing jj is right about is the rhino. One of his podcasts has him say that someone at the prison has told him rhino is in a more secure cell, to which jj asks " if there was a more secure cell why wasn't he in it"

[@XsurvivorX21]

Here in 2024 looking back at my favorite matpat vids and i still cant believe hes retiring cry😭💔

[@TaylorGBlack]

So do you just comment on all his videos like this now or what's up with that?

[@lewisdavidson571]

Rhino wants to be normal again. Vulture has spinal cancer. Scorpion wants a clean slate. Li wants to kill the man who refused to help after causing him kill his parents. Ock wants to expose the man who's held himself above him for so long. The only one that really is a villain is Electro who wants to become pure energy. If Spider-Man got Rhino out of the suit and destroyed it, did everything he could to help out Vulture, go after the criminal organisations Scorpion is indebted to and expose Osborn for all his wrongdoings there would be no Sinister Six.

[@dannyscipio1777]

Except for Li, Otto,MAYBE Scorpion(won't get into it though) I mean seriously Norman may have been a prick, but that doesn't mean releasing 1.Violent Criminals onto the city and 2. Release a bioweapon onto the city. Just to get back at him, damn he even tried to help BOTH of them move on, but they refused and kept going, not Spideys fault,not Norman's completely, the people who reacted to their wrongdoings would kill millions to "correct" it. Stop reaching and find another reason to discredit Spiderman.

[@Eiko-tt9ng]

But still they might have there bad problems they should try and get help and not take out there anger on the innocent people in the city.

[@AmberMetallicScorpion]

what's wrong with wanting to become pure energy by doing so he'd be able to move faster than lightspeed as he doesn't have the drawback of being made of matter,sure he wouldn't be able to survive but still

[@LuisZap16]

Ikr he even says spider man kills if you look on the side of the building you can see that a web attaches the enemy's to the wall meaning they don't die

[@henry5172]

Li and Otto are not justified. That's what an extremist would say. Also scorpion is still a criminal regardless.

[@EckhartsLadder]

But... the police were the ones who initiated the attack on the Kingpin; Spider-man just helped. Also, the point of JJ is that he lies and distorts the truth. If everything JJ said was true, then that would be one thing - but his bias is such that half of what he says is blatantly untrue.

[@fredrick1043]

Your not wrong

[@Epixel14]

@@fredrick1043 you're*

[@olaf3323]

@@Epixel14 guess what mate......no one gives a f***

[@mrschizo2837]

@@olaf3323 Guess*

[@olaf3323]

@@mrschizo2837 Actually, I did that on purpose..........

[@anythingman101]

I love how he basically predicted The Daily Bugle scene in no way home🤣

[@ther.w.d.channel1501]

0:31 he sorta got that right😂

[@TheGoat-wd3wk]

Don’t you just hate when a jj podcast starts as soon as you get to a mission

[@GraySheep1717]

Amen

[@3zoozalm3wali98]

yeah I like listening to those podcasts

[@oscarpeterson4424]

You can turn them off in settings u know

[@narutospersona426]

@@oscarpeterson4424 i think hes complaining that they start before the mission so he wont get to listen to them

[@normal8999]

Very, I love listening to his podcast

[@emarythomp]

This theory was good except for the fact that you blamed Spider-Man for the arrest of Fisk. Fisk’s arrest was something made by police. The police were going to arrest him whether or not Spider-Man was present. He was only there to insure a more safe arrest for police since Fisk was responding by committing assault on police which would further incriminate him. A power vacuum would of occurred anyway. Spider-Man just made it faster. So to blame him isn’t entirely the full truth

[@worldoffiction4882]

The police were likely to fail, there were cops working for Fisk (remember how they got upstairs before Spider-Man?), they probably knew when the police were going to move and definitely had an escape plan for Fisk.

[@michaelkeha]

@@worldoffiction4882 yeah and all it would take is one over eager cop to blow Fisk's brians out and the power gap would have occured anyway it's a classic Indina Jones situation the net end result would always be the same

[@q345ify]

well oftentimes when police are about to take down a major crime figure they prepare for the power vacuum by increasing police presence in at risk areas, and if all else fails using undercover cops and informants in criminal organizations to put more stable/ less murderous leaders in power

[@Iambadboy88]

The whole theory fell apart. This theory was more about JJ being a good guy and not a bad guy, than it was about Spidey being a bad guy.

[@thellamaking5132]

The police would not have gotten Fisk if Spiderman wasn't there. For one, Fisk had cops on his payroll and a lot of weapons and 2, all the evidence would have been erased by the time the cops made it to the evidence room so they wouldn't be able to keep him locked up.

[@FlareCrest]

That J. Jonah prediction was so spot on

[@iDidItForClout]

**Stan Lee would like to know your location**

[@TeaKiwi]

Ok we must be everywhere so he will never die

[@bingbongboi6194]

1000 subs with 0 videos the heck does he want now

[@kamoriejones]

You Jynxed us all!

[@notmariolevi2863]

that is to say that if stan lee is alive anymore.

[@foxyandfriends8931]

@@notmariolevi2863 this 4 months ago so yea :p dont talk

[@jeremyausdemore7263]

16:21 *clears throat* DO NOT VIOLATE THE QUARANTINE

[@jalenr.6542]

Everyone: Or what?

[@brandon0118]

Corona: so you chosen death.

[@e.w.3711]

Vaccine:I AM HERE!!

[@JoeMama-bg1im]

The intro aged extremely well 😂

[@fromthethirdplanet]

The fact that he predicted the way the Daily Bugle was presented in No Way Home…

[@maxzapsgamingzepzeap2337]

I actually once heard a theory that 1 of the reasons Triple J is always hammering it in that Spider-Man is a menace is because he wants Spider-Man to protect people. Tell me, what makes certain people, or maybe even you, more likely to help someone? Is it the constant praise that helping someone might bring, or someone else criticizing you and saying you never help? It's usually the latter, because when praised, you feel like you're in a position of power, and like PS4 Jonah says, 'Power corrupts', but when ridiculed certain people will go out of their way to disprove that criticism, which is what Jonah is counting on. In plenty of the comics, Spider-Man gets so fed up with Jonah, he goes out of his way to save people, which actually helped Jonah save his son plenty of times. If Jonah had never given Spider-Man those criticisms, he would've never gone out of his way to disprove him, and Jonah's son would've died by then. It's why Jonah tells people in 1 of his podcasts to dial it back on praise when he finally gives Spider-Man a compliment, he doesn't want it to go to Spider-Man's head, he even says so in that same podcast. Jonah clearly hates Spider-Man because of what masked people did to him in the past, all the laws that Spider-Man has broken, the fact that no one knows who he is, and the fact that consequences never come his way, but the reason he never rants about other mysterious masked heroes is because Spider-Man will actually help stop smaller crimes, and he wants to make sure Spider-Man will go out of his way to stop those crimes. At least that's what I'd like to believe, (Hes also kind of a conspiracy theorist in PS4 but I mean who wouldn't be in a place like Marvel New York?))

[@lordsolaire6202]

Really good theory!

[@sarbjitkaur3595]

Nice theory also makes sense

[@eleyas9266]

Woah this theory is kinda good

[@luisalbertoarenasaraya4579]

Nerd Sync explained that he wanted SpiderMan to actually consider his actions.

[@Sim-Ona]

I mean sure, what you say is true... but keep criticising someone when they're trying to do well and never give them recognition for what they do is not exactly pleasant.. (I'm not talking about this case specifically, I mean in general). Imagine a good student whos quite good at school, but the teacher wants him to really shine and use all his potential so he keeps holding back on him and saying he didnt do good enough. Maybe in the beginning the boy would then try and do better, trying to impress the teacher and prove to him that he's good. Again the teacher criticises him. The student tries again. No good. No matter what he does, he never seems to be recognised by the teacher for his merits. At which point the boy's like "You know what? F it. I am trying my best and it serves no good. Why would I even try so hard and study so much if I'm getting criticised either way?" right? I feel there should be a balance between trying to push someone to do their best and straight up discouraging them due to never being appreciated.

[@odeliarose13]

Matpat is secretly JJJ lol

[@ishankumar4471]

Odelia Ray JJJ is secretly mat pat and is using the daily bugle to find it. That's why "matpat" is supporting him so much

[@odeliarose13]

Yeah that too

[@williamshaw5716]

He actually predicted what j Johan Jameson is like in the mcu

[@hgicey5274]

In another film theory episode matpat shows how JJ protected peter parker when goblin came and asked who was getting Spidey pics and he denied it in risk of his life. Y'all should see that ep if you haven't

[@comicsans9240]

The real menace Are the people that forget the hyphen in Spider-Man... Mat...

[@prakharmishra5187]

"Writing your memoirs? Don't forget the hyphen between Spider and Man."

[@chocolatebrownies4978]

Another one is that he put spiderman and spider man IN THE TITLE!!!!

[@zerosamus2641]

Comic Sans92 Stan Lee himself admitted that his mood gets ruined when someone forgets the hyphen lmao

[@pizzaking444]

You know how when he Webb’s criminals to the side a building when they fall of All I remember is “those Webb’s dissolve in an hour.

[@Cch_05]

Pretty sure the cops get em down before that

[@lbmemer6120]

in 2 hours

[@amsinnite]

@@lbmemer6120 #preston #Unspeakable #beckbrojack

[@hariodinio]

Here is a thing. If the webbing in the game supposedly doesnt last long, explain them there backpacks

[@Die2934]

@@hariodinio honestly I don't think the creators we're even thinking when they made peter say "fine those webs or whatever he said won't last long even tho he said that them backpacks been there for a while

[@cb-9938]

I have a theory that before Doctor Octavius used the interface and it affected his mind he was working with Martin Lee. -Martin gets shocked to rob a bank, Octavius gets his equipment back by "calling in favors" - Shockers gauntlets had been upgraded, like all the other villains get when they get freed. - Octavius was part of the experiment that made Martin And both had a hatred for Osbourne I believe that he was helping from the start from the subtle hints. But only insomniac can say

[@Stridity]

The Spiderman from the video game is more agressive than the ones from the movies

[@12524isreal]

Alright, it's confirmed. J. Jonah Jameson funds MatPat's channels.

[@raptorwolfgaming4960]

Ange yup

[@foodlemon2288]

Or matpat is J. Jonah Jameson

[@testthelegend1468]

No, Mattpat funds J Jonah Jameson

[@pigglesgoomshby7249]

Will MatPat become the NEW Scorpion?

[@ninemind5351]

Yep

[@SomeAustrianGuy_]

I want that JJJ Juice.. Gosh, that sounds so fcking wrong...

[@heavypupper1219]

J-J-J JOOOOOOOOOOOOOOCE

[@harmonyburns8081]

Your not wrong... buuuuuuuuuut. Yeah I can't make that sound right 😂 lol.

[@Michael-wz2es]

269 likes no one else like ffs

[@Willanator_w]

He predicted j Jonah pretty accurately but the colors are wrong

[@danonyt1611]

The Wilson Fisk thing would've happened because the police were trying to arrest him anyways and Spiderman just helped and the whole policemen complaining about spiderman can't really be a thing as a Captain, Yuri Watanabe, authorises spidey to fight crime as seen in the Fisk mission but I mean the other points are most def right

[@starwick5403]

Hey mat i Have a theory What if THANOS Snapped 2 Times in a row?

[@melancholygirl7793]

Make this comment popular so matpat can do it!

[@anibalprime9050]

Depends on what he wanted to do. The Gauntlet isn't only a snaping device, it can do pretty much anything. If we're talking about the MCU then it's unknown if it would work again as only one snap (a alteration on a universal scale) caused the gauntlet to melt and burn. Thus we're uncertain of the effect that could cause a second snap (Maybe it works, Maybe it doesn't) But that's the MCU If it were to happen in the Comic Books this wouldn't be an issue. Had he snapped again, then he could have killed the other remaining Half of the universe or only 1/4 of life in the universe. (If he we're to snap again, what would he think about? Killing half of the remaining universe or just Killing half of the universe? His obviously aware that he killed half of the universe before so would only snap to kill 1/4 of the universe this time? Or the other 1/2 to finish the job?) It all comes down to Thanos himself, what exactly would be the purpose of the second snap to begin with?

[@DrChimp]

Then 1/4 of the universe would stand

[@Bakkcom]

@@melancholygirl7793 lok

[@aijzoo5226]

If he snapped 1000000 times he still wouldnt be able to erase the universe

[@HandmadeGoose97]

It sounds like JJJ should be running for president at this point.

[@DrMadd]

Daniel Staples Well in the comics he did become the mayor of New York City.

[@DarkZerol]

He did, J. K. Simmons actually went on to potray the POTUS in the 2008 videogame Red Alert 3.

[@isaiahdiaz4252]

Don’t put that image in my head

[@patrickbeattie3496]

At one point in the comics, he did become mayor of New York. (He resigned due to the green goblin almost destroying New York and his spider slayers being hacked)

[@GintoGento]

He did in the coMics once i think

[@tomassmith1519]

One little problem tho: In the Wraith DLC it becomes clear that the cops in this universe are very incompetent

[@jamaalbourne1659]

The JJJ skit in the Intro is now Canon lol

[@renaissancenerd3801]

MatPat: I wonder what J Jonah Jameson would be like today Jon Watts: *laughs in Far From Home*

[@Cathrinite]

Trans rights? Cringe

[@renaissancenerd3801]

@@Cathrinite It's not a trans rights thing, it's an "I am trans" thing

[@Not_RyomenSukuna]

@@Cathrinite no u

[@thomasleongeorgerobertglad7560]

@@Cathrinite you trying to shame people for being who they are? THATS cringe

[@Legend10927]

uh oh no one talking about the comment cause some fucktard ruined it

[@CrabLegsWinston]

But HEY that's just...... the facts with j. Matpat Jameson

[@phrog2125]

GA1J1 N YOU ARE A FLIPPING GENIUS, but I think his actual name is J. Jonah MatPat

[@luxersmultiverse5379]

The greatest lie that marvel ever told was to convince the world that The children of Thanos could lose against cap black widow and falcon .

[@tcl_doctordull7028]

I agree with you on the most part but you exaggerated the fact that he helped Otto octavius create the prosthetic arms, he helped so that a man that was formally in the military could hug his daughter again. Also you forget, peter stopped working for JJJ because he tried to accused Spider-Man of murder and he accused Spider-Man of working with the city bombers or the demons. And it's not like it's just bias he is speaking about Spider-Man how he would speak to himself, he has a huge ego and mistakenly "says my city" instead of "our city" that he deserves and not what we deserve.

[@hobbitnerdsteamworks]

J Jonah Joint Juice > Daily Fix Protein or whatever it was called in No Way Home

[@shilohelgin2408]

I’m starting to think that Matt Pat is the J Jonah Jameson of real life.

[@arbiduzzamansyed4254]

I don’t get it

[@SunshineRey]

@@arbiduzzamansyed4254 to many people Matthew sounds crazy, or like he’s just rambling trying to make it sound like he’s actually saying a coherent story, but if you take it from his prospective, it sound less like it’s crazy and more like it’s true. That’s basically what Matthew is trying to say in this theory, only about J Jonah and not himself.

[@markmagician2471]

Or his son

[@memecliparchives2254]

@@SunshineRey But unlike Jameson sometimes, Mat doesn't go out of his way to be pretentious about it. He's just like: "I'm just saying, BUT HEY ITS JUST A THEORY".

[@slishslash9202]

r/WHOOSH

[@jocab4154]

“Canonically the webbing only lasts an hour” Spider-man’s backpacks from 8 years ago:

[@Churrs]

It’s different webbing probably

[@spideyboy-wb6wi]

He actually did change his webbing just so he wouldn’t leave so many webs all over new york

[@ericdillingham6858]

Sorry, spider-man has a webbing backpack?

[@Draco.Invictus]

@@ericdillingham6858 When Pete would switch to Spidey, he would always stow his backpack somewhere safe so he could go back for it later...well you can collect all the backpacks around the city from his 8 years of being Spidey.

[@amazing_gator]

This makes me question my childhood. I need to go sit down.

[@DistaLatania]

Honestly, JJJ is one of my favorite characters, just from the way he goes opera singer on the news.

[@THEKXRMANETWORK]

My only issue with Jonah’s argument is him and Spider-Man exist in a universe where the Avengers and Black Panther and hell possibly other characters like Daredevil and the defenders or maybe even the X-Men etc. exist, and when they fight, they’re battles cause MASS damage. So why doesn’t he go for them too? It doesn’t make much sense to me(other than T’Challa because he’s a king he can do whatever the hell he wants as long as he is politically sound)

[@richiesahlin6409]

Avengers are government funded and Daredevil is a lawyer.

[@suckatchess]

Causes major damage fighting villians > Allows everything to be completely destroyed. Pick one! Lol!

[@nayrbhaes8120]

Hes a local newspaper he need not tell his citizens what is happening down in Black Panther town. Unless they're are in new york too, idk.

[@anthonyfox9759]

I agree (except T'challa doing whatever he wants. He cant just go to a foreign country and start blowing things up, no matter his justification) I think the reason the Avengers are not included in his rants is to avoid taking the spotlight off Spiderman. It is a game that is entirely focused on him after all.

[@Zombie_Chow]

@@richiesahlin6409 Peter is just a scientist who wants to make the world a better place.

[@mr.mcnerdo]

Not to mention that he has actually saved Peter and others on occasion. For example, Rhino had stormed the Daily Bugle (Spectacular Spider-Man) and demanded that he give him Peter Parker. Instead of turn him over, like many viewers probably expected, he simply claimed Parker hadn’t been there for a while (Peter was in the stairwell looking out the door) and secretly motioned for Peter to scram. If that isn’t a rabbit in a rattlesnake’s body, I don’t know what is.

[@mr.mcnerdo]

And now I rewatched Raimi’s series and JJJ did it there as well. Oops.

[@drishalballaney6590]

same thing when green goblin attacks jjj in spiderman movie

[@ollietomlinson3290]

I always thought Jamison as just a annoying crackpot, but he really is the only voice of reason in the spider man world

[@ashemarlow6471]

"He may be the only person with a solid head on his shoulders" I hate to interrupt, but he did advocate to remove the infirmary from the RAFT, allow Adrian Toomes to die of cancer, allow the Maggia to take over New York in order to return to simpler times, and enlist Rhinos (the animal, not the villain) to the police force.

[@fanflashable]

While I agree with a lot of points made here, something that bugs me was the "Spiderman causes more problems" section. While yes, the events of the game seem to spiral out of control, how was Peter supposed to know what would happen after arresting Kingpin? (who was also resisting arrest by the way since at the start we knew the police had a warrant for his arrest) He had no idea who the Demons were. Octavius was his mentor and hero but it was still Octavius decision to use the neural interface. Blaming all of that on Spiderman is basically saying that he is responsible for the actions of the villains. It was Li's choice to take revenge on Osborne, it was Octavius's choice to release the Devil's Breathe and release the inmates at the RAFT. So while his actions do seem to spiral most of the time, it isn't intentional and he does his damndest to fix it, which is basically what we do all the time, just on a smaller, less world ending scale.

[@flaminG-Ghost]

That's the point, he did NOT know that Kingpin's arrest would be more detrimental to NY. If he had done proper research about organised crime or had police training, he would know why Kingpin should not have been arrested, a reason why many times in real-world police deliberately do not arrest the head of the crime family (even with warrants) but only try to control it. Crime is more complicated. It's not black and white, it is grey. Something I only understand now because I am a lawyer by profession who has studied cases of actual crimes. Peter is smart and capable of researching organised crime, and he should have the foresight of the consequences of displacing a major crime lord and creating a vacuum. If you say, "he couldn't have known," then my friend, that's why he shouldn't meddle with something he is ignorant about just for righteousness bcz IRL things are never Black and White.

[@TKilgore09]

@@flaminG-Ghost The New York police department already had a warrant for Fisk's arrest. What was Peter supposed to do? Convince them to not arrest Kingpin? He literally wakes up at the start of the game because of the police dispatch announcing their attempt to arrest Fisk.

[@churchy9863]

@@flaminG-Ghost but even if he did his research he would still be doing the same thing, cause even the police didn't know about the demons, devils breath, the event of Otto, and the raft breakout. It's pretty basic info that if spiderman wasn't there, not much would change.

[@bibigamer502]

@@flaminG-Ghost so the police magically knew what was as going to happen in the game long before it even happened in the game and the player becomes aware of any of it?

[@vgamer4993]

I mean, Doc Ock and Mr. Negative aren't a direct result of Spider-Man's actions. It's made pretty clear that their crusades for revenge are the direct results of Norman and his obsession with finding Harry a cure. Norman is the real cause of every major problem in the game.

[@blo0dysmiles297]

Ya but because of spiderman he was able to get negative his time to shine and Doc his arms (which doc himself said he couldn't have done it without Peter as Peter saved the project so many times) as well as cuased norman tonshut down the project cuase all the warnings they gave him Peter clearly seen being the reason for most of them cuase he wasnt there in turn yes doc hated norman but he didnt want to kill and stop him until norman shut his project down a result of what Peter did so again yes spiderman cuased everything that happens in the game. I love spiderman but most people can see the super hero is almost 90% the reason a super villain becomes one

[@vgamer4993]

BLO0DY SMILES Peter got Otto's project shut down? Um, no. Otto did that by going ahead with the trial run and botching it on his own. And even then it's practically spelled out that Norman was just looking for an excuse to shut everything down, because he's kind of a dick. Even then the developments in the arms that caused Otto to go nuts were the things that Otto himself added, against Peter's warnings I might add. Even the Demons taking over wasn't really Peter's fault, since the police were already moving in on Fisk before he got there. All Peter really did was reduce casualties and make sure Fisk didn't erase his hard drives. Ultimately, Peter doesn't shoulder much (if any) blame for the big events in the story.

[@KP-gu6fc]

Vgamer 499 it’s otto’s fault that he went ahead with the project ignoring the mental stability loss

[@miguelrivas6726]

BLO0DY SMILES well it’s spideys job to stop criminals! He’s not gonna try and not stop him...because then he’s gonna be the villain and cause EVEN MORE problems

[@nikinonsen3642]

Vgamer 499 true that

[@takezokimura2571]

That's why in My Hero Academia the heroes need to complete their hero course, which lasts 3 years if I recall correctly. They are trained to use their powers responsibly and how to rescue civilians, and usually not kill villains. Vigilantism is also prohibited, and there's even a spin-off that focuses on vigilants

[@jarjarl]

I know I'm 3 years late but they totally copied you for the j Jonah Jameson in spider man no way home even down to the product placement

[@emperormilk_]

Are we gonna talk about the fact that matpat predicted J Jonah Jamesion in Far From Home

[@thedude8457]

He is a psychic

[@parsnipguy2986]

Uncanny

[@aWalkThroughLife]

MatPat is only half right. J Johah Jameson is helpful and correct for asking questions on Spider-Man, but he is not a hero. His bias still blinds him (he wouldn't come off as a conspiracy theorist if he wasn't one): - The police would have arrested Fisk anyways so they were going to cause the power vacuum with or without Spider-Man (Fisk is strong, but he's human. Bullets would have killed him). The big difference is that, unlike other times in real history, the consequences of the vacuum were dealt with thanks to Spider-Man. He took out Mr. Negative and his gang, something the police would have struggled to do, if they could succeed in doing it at all. - It was stated in the video that Dr. Octavius had ignored several safety protocols and he wasn't checking over his experiments diligently before testing and he decided to use that artificial intelligence to control the arms. This would have happened eventually with or without Peter. Nearly all scientific advancements have the potential to be weaponized so this isn't shocking. - Jameson seems to insinuate that Spider-Man is the reason there are super villains in New York. New York is the most populated city in the US, if any city is going to have super villains, statistically it's going to be New York (especially with all the high profile business that goes on in New York) and as far as I know, Spider-Man is only responsible for one of the super villains, Dr. Octopus (and that's a bit of a stretch in itself consider Peter only helped design the tech he uses). - As for the "horrible injuries" Spider-Man inflicts on bad guys, look at it like this. If the police show up and you try and attack them even when they tell you to surrender, they shoot you and you'll usually end up bleeding out. When Spider-Man shows up, they don't surrender. They attack, he takes down a few of them and yet the others keep attacking him regardless; a smart bad guy would know when to give up. If they have this same attitude with a super powered person (as well as knowing how badly Super-Man can hurt them), they'd probably try and attack the police and end up getting killed. Spider-Man ends up saving these morons' lives. - As for the villains who put the public in danger to try to test Spider-Man or film him, these people are obviously not right in the head. They would have done something harmful at some point and Spider-Man, like any celebrity, just became their fixation. Plus, is a horror writer to blame if someone decides to use the method they used to kill someone in their book? Are the Beatles to blame for Charles Mason's crimes when he claimed he was "inspired" to do so by their song "Helter Skelter"? - As for the water pipe thing, was that the only mistake Spider-Man made? He made one mistake in that entire game full of super villains and gangs and that validates that he is a menace? - Lastly, Jameson says he should get trained by the police and/or join their ranks. Getting trained isn't a bad idea, but joining them would be. If he gets paid by the police, criminals or spies in the police can follow that money back to Peter and, just like that, his identity is discovered. Even if he wasn't paid, it's not safe for him to get too close to strangers while in his Spider-Man persona; if he were to slip up in a few things he says and does, his identity could be discovered. While being a police officer is a dangerous job, most of them don't have to worry about super villains coming after their friends and family since they aren't that important to the overall scheme of things, Spider-Man himself and his associates would no doubt be hunted down. Also, let's not forget that the government or a privately funded research team could capture and experiment on Spider-Man to learn more about his powers, maybe even potentially creating a serum to give people powers (which could be weaponized and make the world a whole lot worse).

[@Sasha-ph9uv]

The proposition to join the police is more for that he can be punish for missleading, the better exemple is when spider-man arrest a criminal if he hurt bystander by mystake how can we be sure that he would be punish and take this error into consideration? This is not a question of identity but more a question to responsability and Jonah are the best exemple because in the game we heard of Peter that Jonah was going to far with his attacks on Spider-Man and got fired but how can we make Spider-Man paid if he go too far one-day? And also Spider-Man gain is information to the police operation by her contact (doesn't remember her name) who clearly said that if is superior know that she give her those information she will get fired so technically Spider-Man aren't supposed to be informed by the police who can cause more injury's or problem by a flaw in coordination the best exemple is when Spuder enter in the middle of a gun-fire against the police and the devils how the police should react "did they still firing? Did they have to stop?" (In the game they still firing) but with the bit of dialogue that they said we know that they are which can lead to other injuries.

[@aWalkThroughLife]

@@Sasha-ph9uv I'm not seeing your point (and I'm having a little trouble understanding you). Even if Spider-Man joined the police, how do you intend to punish someone if you don't know who they are, where they live, or anything at all about them (I'm assuming Spider-Man is still hiding his identity)? They can't charge Spider-Man for property damage or medical bills since they wouldn't know where to send the bills. They can order for his arrest, but have no leads as to how to find him (they can just actively hunt for him and make his crime fighting life harder). Technically, they can order his arrest now just for interfering in police business, but they don't because they don't want to. In the end, they can't force Spider-Man to take responsibility without catching him; the only thing they can do is bad mouth him and put out that arrest warrant. Besides, I still stand by the idea that being trained by the police would not be a bad idea for him; it may make him more efficient in his crime fighting and he'll know when he should back off and let the police handle it. Still, the reason Spider-Man is so valuable is because he isn't a police officer. The police are bound by the law and have to do things by the book. The police know that Spider-Man's very existence is breaking the law, but they allow it because it helps them in the fight against crime in their city. If Spider-Man wasn't doing a good job, they would have put out a warrant for his arrest and they would shoot at him when he appeared on sight unless he surrendered. As for Spider-Man interrupting police coordination, that's not really a problem. The only times that I can think of that happening is when Spider-Man jumps in during the altercation between police and criminals. The police could just hide out and wait for Spider-Man to finish them off, saving their lives and the lives of the criminals OR they can continue firing, actively trying to hit the bad guys and, if Spider-Man gets hit, it's his own fault for jumping in the middle (Spider-Man isn't innocent in this. He's committed crimes as well, and, in a fire fight, it's tough to tell who shot who so it's unlikely a cop or criminal will be given jail time if Spider-Man got shot). Besides that, a police chief is usually present to give orders during large confrontations so they can just order the men to hide or keep firing so there won't be any confusion (they probably even discussed what should be done if Spider-Man shows up at the scene).

[@A7medos]

aWalkThroughLife thaaaaaank you so damn much this is exactly what I was thinking

[@danii2468]

Nice ease.

[@neku6970]

Also to further go on the water tower point, Spider-Man wouldn't have had to try and fix that situation if the city workers had paid more attention to clogged lines an whatnot. If he hadn't acted there there could have been an explosion resulting in dead people, rather than a few busted water towers. I like your points idk why this doesn't have more likes tbh. Also Jamison has made several slip ups in his logs where he admits a good part of why he slanders Spider-Man is because he's jealous of him and the attention he gets.

[@foxywolffox1992]

I'd like to mention idk if it was in the game or mentioned but in the the one movie he even goes as far as protecting the identity of the person who brings him spidermans photos even when threatened with his life on the line

[@MLFireSoul]

I remember when this video was uploaded I didn't watch it since I wanted to play Spider-Man myself first it took 5 years and it finally got ported to PC now I can watch this and the Mile Morales Theory :)

[@fuzzyelite4453]

Yes but MatPat, the main theme of this game is consequences; when spiderman doesn't pay his bills he gets evicted or when he doesn't let mary jane go investigate they break up. However, all of the goals spiderman does is to prevent future problems or to not let it get out of hand; if he doesn't do anything it is not ethical. And that is good story telling

[@mikee143]

He never said that the story or theme was bad, mat was looking at spiderman from the big picture

[@NoahDaArk]

Fuzzy Elite I think MatPat is freaking out about how Well story in games has come so he’s looking for anything and EVERYTHING to make a video. He’s gone from well respected to clickbait

[@fuzzyelite4453]

@@mikee143 What do you mean he talked about spiderman killing people and literally being a villain did you even watch the video?

[@tf9956]

But if you really think about it, he did cause the problems. Intentionally or not.

[@ninjtim1133]

Block Star I agree. I still like his videos, but it’s just nit picking at this point. Yeah the criminals look like they are killed, but in a realistic fashion they can be dead. But this is a game. And the developers said that Spidey doesn’t kill. So if they say that, then the villains aren’t dead. Everything doesn’t have to be realistic in a game.

[@artemiswolf4508]

I think it’s kind of unfair to blame Spider-Man for the creation of these villains. Like if I had rejected a guy’s advancements and enraged he decided to become a murderer, it still wouldn’t be my fault. Could I have prevented his creation if I had marry him? Maybe. But it’s not my responsibility, he was just a clearly unstable crazy person and they themselves should be the only ones held accountable for their actions.

[@artemiswolf4508]

onionmon thank you

[@byte2816]

i agree, but still plausible argument MatPat

[@BlackCover95]

*THANK YOU* I’m sick and tired of people blaming superheroes for the existence of supervillains! But you’ve put it into perspective.

[@thenewnoob4125]

I agree with your comment absolutely, but for the sake of thought experiment, if you KNEW the person was unstable beforehand, and then started a relationship and then regret it so you end it off causing them to go crazy because they thought you both cared for eachother, who is the victim? Just an idea, I actually still believe that the person who ended the relationship is NOT in the wrong, they aren't the parent, it isn't their responsibility to care for a child-minded adult. That being said, could they have avoided the conflict in the first place? If so, are they guilty?

[@tygerion4404]

While you may have a valid point, if you co-created a potentially dangerous device, and then failed to do your job and do a proper safety check, and that caused someone to go mad and become a villain? That IS your responsibility. Additionally, like Matpat said, by taking down Fisk, Spidey created a power vacuum, which directly led to an even bigger problem; something that anyone working for law enforcement would know. He DIRECTLY caused both Doc. Oc and Mr. Negative to become villains, and he also directly caused the gang war in the streets. After that, all the issues in the game are just escalation.

[@Saizzzzz]

you know what's criminal? you not putting that hyphen in between spider and man

[@lelanhall8998]

Alot of this is so wrong. For example, if Spider-man did not attempt to fix, then fix, the water pressure problem immeditely everyone in the building complex would have died. And the police were trying to take down Fisk with the police captain asking for Spider-man's help.

[@ouf5794]

"The NDC is doing what they can. If they are dealing with outbreaks all over the country, or the whole world, that's less time they have to work on the anti-serum.... Do not violate the quarantine. Stay in your homes. Take care of your families." *Everyone felt uncomfortable with that.*

[@JadeSpecter]

Waaay to Relevant

[@creativenamegoeshere2562]

Very uncomfortable

[@curtdog647]

When I first played that game I was like pffft that couldn't happen and well here we are.

[@aur9035]

@@curtdog647 why would you think an outbreak wouldn't happen.. it happened before