The Depth in Arkham Combat

[@sup3414]

0:09 That's so funny how the music was in sync with Batman's and the enemies' hits😂

[@ethanrogers3528]

I’m glad I’m not the only one that noticed that.

[@Cosmicmorales]

I WAS JUST ABOUT TO COMMENT THAT LMFAO.

[@StickyBM]

Just wanted to drop by and say how fitting your comment is- originally the idea for "freeflow" was actually a rhythm based combat system during it's early phases of development. But yes that timing was really good omg

[@Bika_Bikas]

I couldnt imagine how long it took him to get that to happen

[@facxsimileart4144]

That was so Edgar Wrighty

[@mrclaymore6374]

Ah yes, the combat in arkham city...I love the moment when you don't even feel the controller in your hands and just doing some combos without getting punched. When everything is under your control...God what a game.

[@CrowofYharnam]

The game plays by itself 🤦‍♂️

[@g2.a6]

It's like a Zen state. Very satisfying

[@DarkInception]

*Extremely Satisfying* Especially the music swells and crescendos in the background as your combo multiplayer builds.

[@jimmy22334]

@@CrowofYharnamnot really, you can button mash if you want but that only scratches the surface of the combos you can pull off. Anyone can punch and block but using gadgets is so satisfying

[@AAllen-br8it]

​@CrowofYharnam play on hard with no armor then 🐱

[@Roge9]

always found the combat satisfying in these games.

[@KillerPojo12]

Incredibly satisfying. What would be another combat game with similar satisfying fighting mechanics? Any thing helps.

[@immaculatesquid]

@@KillerPojo12 i havent found any tbh aside from the Arkham 4. Assassins Creed 3 is very close. AC Brotherhood and Revelations also have pretty good combat. Although Revelations gets annoying.

[@KillerPojo12]

@@immaculatesquid lol funnily enough I was a fan of AC until Revelations and basically everything afterthat. wasn't fun anymore. but I may need to revisit Ark 4 and beat it again. cheers.

[@ransam8299]

@@KillerPojo12 you might like shadow of mordor

[@spinny003]

@@KillerPojo12 It's not the same style but quite satisfying nonetheless: Shadow of Mordor.

[@DavetheTurnip]

Great overview of just how complex a simple system can be if the player wants it to be, but also how through point bonuses, the game incentivizes variety and mastery. Well explained 😃

[@OrangeLightnings]

The predator missions offer a lot of cool intricacies as well (knocking enemies off ledges with the gel, electrical charge, and batclaw is awesome!). There are challenge rooms for those too, but they're pretty much just "knock out a guard by doing this", instead of ranking you on time, or score.

[@CrowofYharnam]

The combat isn't complex 😂😂😂

[@spirit_504]

@@CrowofYharnam yeah it is

[@enzoamore8971]

It's like DMC. The combat is easy if you just spam, but it's very complex when you try to be stylish.

[@non-fictionaltoughguy1208]

@@CrowofYharnam it’s complex, especially if you decide to do this without gadgets unlike @orangelightings ,it’s much more difficult straight hands

[@lewisdavidson571]

If people actually tried to use the “just press x and y” tactic they’d be dead and bored so fast. Not only does it not work because each counter takes a second of animation and a misplaced counter opens you up to attack, but also no combos to truly explore what the game can do.

[@danielsebastian3299]

Hello, I hold a playstation world record on a survival map in batman arkham city and x and y can definitely get you through the game with the occasional stun for brutes and titans but I agree that it would be boring. In my opinion they should have made it so that you can only counter certain enemy types by using the quick fire gadgets, that would spice things up a little, they probably didn't do it though because the profit motive limits/prohibits their creativity and combat design significantly.

[@immaculatesquid]

@@danielsebastian3299 i think arkham combat is the closest to perfection we have ever seen. It can be so easy, but also so difficult to master at the same time. I like the variety of the arkham knight challenge maps too, because I could get 3 stars easy with Batman on one map and then really have to try my ass off to do the same with Robin.

[@danielsebastian3299]

@@immaculatesquid its the most fun combat system I have ever played. Most combat systems are fun for a while but they get boring, repetitive and extremely tedious after a while. To make the system perfect, they don't have to change anything fundamentally, just change some of the details.

[@CrowofYharnam]

None of that matters when the game plays by itself

[@CrowofYharnam]

@@immaculatesquid it's never hard the game plays by itself

[@MCFPapa]

The bat swarm isn't useless. You can beat up an Abramovici without stunning him until your combo is charged and use the bat swarm to keep any other thugs from trying to hit you and then keep on hitting the Abramovici, repeating this cycle until he's taken down and then you can fight the other thugs when you already have at least a x40 combo built up.

[@OrangeLightnings]

True, I always go after Abronovich first for the high multiplier and the opportunity to use all four of the special moves in sequence (as to not forget any). I would use the move more frequently in challenge maps, purely to keep guards alive for longer, but in terms of raw damage output it's eclipsed by other moves. You're right, though, it's not useless.

[@robertreynolds9961]

I use big guys to build up combos. Tuen quick take downs

[@sleazy_voiceovers]

U dont need to stun Abramovici tho

[@tjknight]

Also makes shit like quick fire gel or batclaw slam less prone to get you punched

[@arjuna6224]

​@@sleazy_voiceoversthe surrounding enemies can be a pain in the ass, so stunning him with the batswarm leaves him open for more hits and less chance that you will be attacked by him and the goons surrounding him.

[@PostMesmeric]

The Arkham games have kind of gotten a bit of unwarranted lukewarm reception these days and I believe the combat system is one reason why. But you explored the underlying complexity of this mechanic well, and I think combined with your straight-ahead vocal delivery and clean editing style, you're gonna being moving up in this KZbin world faster than you might expect. Ya done good, sir.

[@OrangeLightnings]

Haha, well we'll see about that! Thanks for the kind words. I took a look at some of your stuff as well - specifically your look at Last Day of June, a game I had been eyeing for a long time, but no one I paid any attention to really spoke up about it. Think I'm going to give it a try at some point over the three day weekend now.

[@manuelmateo3392]

Only really the last two.

[@baki484]

@@manuelmateo3392 I think it's just the hate for batman that's been going around lately. Apparently you're not a real gamer for complimenting this system. I'm constantly learning even today this system is as deep as you want it to be. Especially with KZbinrs like batman arkham videos who actually play the game masterfully.

[@mike04574]

one of the most critically acclaimed trilogies inall ofgaming lol.

[@JackycakesV2]

@@mike04574quadrilogy*

[@doodleBurgers]

I wish you talked about Knight more because it adds a lot of new combat moves.

[@OrangeLightnings]

I honestly could not even manage to get consistent footage of it. It even stutters in what little footage I did capture. I just upgraded my PC though, so I hope that's not a problem in the future.

[@B3D_FPV]

@@OrangeLightnings Hi mate, thanks for the analysis on my favourite game series. Just a heads up, the reason for stutter in Arkham Knight is due to texture streaming, & as such you really should be running it on an SSD & use the Tweak Tool to further improve it: steamcommunity.com/app/208650/discussions/0/523890046870624615/ Also CPU frequency helps a lot, >4GHz really smooths it out. Also the PhysX settings (apart from Enhanced Rain} really mess up your frametimes, I would disable them. Loved your Nightcrawler vid, keep up the good work! Cheers :)

[@OrangeLightnings]

The trick I used was to build an entirely new PC with a 1080 TI! I really appreciate comments like this, because otherwise I never know what the problem is. I should be more conscientious of these kinds of options in the future, I didn't install the FAR mod in Nier until my second playthrough, for example. Digital Foundry does a great job of outlining exactly what to do with new PC games, but I don't always check. I'm glad you enjoyed Nightcrawler!

[@alexhopper10]

That's a great analysis. There are so many people on KZbin who talk about games, but you stand out.

[@OrangeLightnings]

Thanks!

[@pieinyourfacestreax5138]

I might have found the most underrated channel ever. Your delivery is straightforward and your monologuing isn't boring at all. Keep up this quality and you could go quite far.

[@velocityrapture7047]

In asylum the batarang and the batclaw in combat count towards the variation bonus though which helps in the challenge maps

[@BC21beats]

I thought the games were way too easy until I started playing the combat challenges makes it way more satisfying to master those multi combos

[@StreetTaco]

To be fair Spider-Man 2 did the dodge/counter thing first and imo it was much more satisfying to play with.

[@SabbyNeko]

That's insane to me. Spider-Man 2 was a good swinging system held hostage by a horrible game.

[@DatPRGuy2017]

@@SabbyNeko Me when I lie

[@LaNoLaCola]

Throwing goons out of the combat arena was fun as hell in asylum, and the upgraded bat claw being able to bring up to three opponents to the ground to maximize on the ground takedown multiplier is also incredibly useful

[@godoftune]

he lowkey didn’t know what he was talking abt ngl

[@Hauptseite]

That opening bit earned a like. Great analysis and tight editing. Loved it.

[@OrangeLightnings]

The intro took me an entire evening, so I really appreciate you calling it out.

[@Hauptseite]

Haha, I appreciate the hard work that goes into editing. I've done lots of editing of videos and audio and understand it is a slow and tedious job, usually with little rewards beyond your own satisfaction. Also, that opening bit is precisely what I think of whenever someone claims you can beat the games with just strike and counter. They're not terribly hard games, to be fair, but they're not _that_ easy either.

[@OrangeLightnings]

Clicking things into place still requires a lot of guess work for me, so that satisfaction is pretty high when something feels "right". When you drop the difficulty down low, they really are THAT easy, but if you want a challenge, you can self impose one (use the gadgets!) or try to get a high score in Riddler's Revenge. Trying to wipe the map in predator missions as fast as possible ALWAYS feels great too. Arkham Knight is just plain difficult to finish on hard, because enemies are so much more aggressive.

[@Hauptseite]

As a big fan of Arkham Asylum and Arkham City, I welcome an increased challenge in Arkham Knight. If the game breaking bugs and instability of the PC version has been wiped clean, I'll be getting that soon after upgrading my graphics card. As to the difficulty of the prior games, I've never once played the games on easy and never even played City on normal. I played Asylum on normal when I first got it back in early 2010, nearly beat the game, someone deleted my save forcing me to restart from scratch, so I just started on hard to make up for that. Never looked back. Hard, to me, is the only way to play these games. I've managed to get in the top 100 on multiple ranked challenge maps too (PS3 version) so I take some joy in those accomplishments, but some of them are just insanely difficult. The story mode feels like a breeze after trying the challenge maps for a few hours.

[@OrangeLightnings]

Knight still isn't all the way there on PC (it even stutters in my footage). Its challenge maps and predator missions both feel like a huge step back from City, but if you want a challenge I actually think you'll find one in the campaign. Certain enemies punish you for using the evade, and the hits come in much faster than they do in Asylum and City. It's a polarization game, but I think there's a lot to love about it. Gotham is breathtaking, and it does the "one shot" thing before God of War got a ton of credit for doing it "first".

[@spimpsmacker6422]

I've been playing Arkham City for nearly 75 hours, and I'm still finding small unique mechanics that I can use to improve my playstyle. It really is a miracle how this series came out of nowhere and nothing like it has managed to top the bar since.

[@OrangeLightnings]

Most of the other implementations feel clunkier (Mad Max) or different enough that they don’t have the rhythm of Arkham (Spider-Man). Shadow of Mordor is pretty much identical, though, if you’re just looking for more of this gameplay. I haven’t played Shadow of War, but I imagine it’s more of the same.

[@emmyjr1231]

​@OrangeLightnings Shadow of War/Mordor doesn't have the complexity of knight. They also lack impact/ feel on the controller when you attack enemies. Mad Max was generally frustrating. it seems stuck in between asylum and city. Maybe a sequel would've improved things. I haven't played an Arkham copycat that matched Arkham City/Knight.

[@TrailCaddy]

Sifu has

[@OrangeLightnings]

@@TrailCaddy Sifu doesn’t control anything like Arkham, but it scratches the same itch for me. It’s a great recommendation. I wish its scoring system were better. Despite changing it in a patch, I don’t think either implementation is very good. I wish they’d copy City.

[@nkcgamer115]

I love watching pros playing the games and how advanced their movement is I wanna start practicing to be as good as them

[@roymustang85]

Propably the only video on youtube that explains why the combat in Arkham games is better than most people think.

[@CrowofYharnam]

Definitely isn't that good it's extremely dull and shallow one button to win

[@arjuna6224]

​@@CrowofYharnamsaid by someone who is terrible at these games, you are probably the same guy who got annoyed at the mere existence of shield and knife guys, guys with stun sticks who can't even be stunned through normal means, so try some original criticism.

[@myusername3162]

​@@arjuna6224how do you know he's bad at the game lol, that's an assumption on your part. Im great at the game and I honestly love the game a lot, but truthfully the combat is kinda shallow and easy

[@arjuna6224]

@@myusername3162 I fail to see how the combat is shallow and easy, when the guys with knives,stun sticks and shields helps you to strategize and punishes you for mashing, these are enemies you cannot punch them out of your way by just pressing the attack button, I can assume that he's terrible, because he doesn't provide any reason as to why the combat is shallow, he's just hating for hating purposes, just look at his replies in the other comments. There are even more enemies which you cannot hit directly and you have to adapt based on the situation, but this guy says that the combat plays by itself and you only need to press 2 buttons in order to win the game which is a moronic statement on its own

[@myusername3162]

@@arjuna6224 I'd say the combat is easy due to the fact that , once you learn each enemies attack patterns and how to counter them, it becomes just pressing two buttons ; attack and counter. I'd say it's shallow because , besides using gadgets and your cape, there isn't variety or control over the combos that you can do against enemies. And also with the knife guys I believe you press the dodge button as well. Also that guys comment do seem pretty hateful to be honest, but it's not fair to assume he hasnt played it, maybe he has played it and is just making hateful comments which is kinda mean I'll say.

[@brucew565]

I loved your analysis. Finally glad to come across someone who understands the combat system. In my opinion, the Arkham combat is an industry-class melee-based combat system with a wide variety of permutations and combinations. It always pisses me off that people just shrug this combat system off as a "glorified QTE". They must not know what QTEs really are. I hope they don't completely overhaul the combat system in the new Batman game owing to this vocal minority. Dude this video honestly deserves way more views. Great Job!!

[@g2.a6]

The hate for the Arkham combat always baffled me. When you truly get into the flow ir just feels and looks amazing and smooth. The takedowns and gadgets are pretty awesome too

[@baki484]

​@@g2.a6 I mastered Spiderman 2018 and miles morales hours on spectacular difficulty I don't even feel the difference playing in ultimate. ln arkham I'm still finding new approaches and animations in the arkham games barring arkham asylum. The game is suffering for its accessibility. Simple to use difficult to master approach in its design elements.

[@BiodegradableYTP]

An orange lightning bolt striking down on this hot-button opinion topic. Nice.

[@OrangeLightnings]

My hot take is 7 years late!

[@jvraghavaramasharma120]

8:38 thank you, that's one of the reasons why I love pc gaming....

[@M64bros]

That was Very Interesting..... I didn't know you can do that?

[@DPhoenix237]

Good video, but 'that useless throw is replaced with a useless bat swarm' SERIOUSLY misses the point of the best and probably most broken thing that they added in Arkham City. The bat swarm adds multiple hits to your combat multiplier whilst stunning enemies and not doing any damage. It's incredible because it adds to your score and variety without knocking out thugs, leaving more of them alive to use other attacks on and increase your variety score for the encounter. It's amazing for both increasing how much experience you get in the in-game encounters, and also for getting high scores in the combat trials. I don't know if they changed it in the remaster, but it's godlike in the original version of City. There is a reason they toned it down in the subsequent games, both in terms of how early you can get it in the tree and in terms of it not adding hits to the combo counter.

[@OrangeLightnings]

Oh wow, I never realized. I use the move plenty, but didn't realize it impacted the multiplier. It was my "go-to" in challenge maps (and the disarm) because you could get some free points without hurting any guards. If it truly iterates your multiplier, I stand corrected, because that's a BIG boost.

[@DPhoenix237]

@@OrangeLightnings Yeah it's pretty great; they nerfed it in Origins and Knight. Great video though.

[@OrangeLightnings]

@@DPhoenix237 One of the things that disappointed me about Knight was the way it "mandated" variety, instead of giving you a bonus for it. You'd use the batclaw to tear off electric fields, or the REC to overcharge electric hands, so everything would get used, but you wouldn't really get much more XP for style. Further, XP was doled out so generously in side missions, that the variety you earn in combat was negligible. I also just really wish their were more four round challenge maps. That said, I have an otherwise really positive opinion on Knight, it's easily one of the best games of the past few years.

[@DPhoenix237]

@@OrangeLightnings 100% agree, Knight was excellent, but most of the ability points came from side missions. Bit strange.

[@mycubiclepenguin868]

Great video, but I've personally never had a problem with the combat's simplicity and was completely unaware that some others actually did. Most games can be simplified in such a way - for example, any FPS revolves around aiming and firing, but there's obviously more to that. Despite Arkham combat's simplicity, it NEVER gets boring, and that's ultimately what matters. It is a videogame after all.

[@CrowofYharnam]

There is nothing to batmans combat it it's the most simplistic combat ever

[@davidscott3412]

This is a very good analysis. Compared to other players that played arkham games, you are a smart and observant player, one thing this video needed are the animation cancel moves and the tips and tricks veterans use such as how in arkham knight it is better to batclaw combo brutes for a 1 hit KO. Animation cancels are also crucial for 100% mastering the combat, stuff like how you don't have to counter two thugs coming up to you with only one strike and a counter to the other and other stuff like the beware of other thugs when performing the ground pound and how you should pick your targets especially in arkham knight. Amazing video tho 10/10

[@OrangeLightnings]

How's the batclaw 1 hit KO brutes? I never figured that out!

[@davidscott3412]

@@OrangeLightnings not the batclaw, the batclaw combo in arkham knight that you unlock, 8 XP points. The one where on normal thugs he pulls them to him and do an aerial backflip, use that on any brute that requires a beatdown and boom 1 hit K.O

[@OrangeLightnings]

Oh shit that's slick, I'll have to go back to that game and experiment with the gadgets more. Sounds like that game did more with the unlocks than I realized.

[@davidscott3412]

@@OrangeLightnings if you don't have that unlocked you can also freeze grenade them and strike them normally, if you leave them for last a few freeze grenades and some punched would do the trick too

[@davidscott3412]

@@OrangeLightnings i have discord if you want to communicate more swiftly, ChemboyFernando#1769

[@Myotiss22]

Thanks for your labour, it was awesome. The only thing I can say as a HUGE Batman fan, you know the both of best fight games of gamer world. 👌👍

[@OrangeLightnings]

Thanks! You can be the first to try out my new calculator - I wanted to remake this after some new learning: bgagnon93.github.io/batman-arkham-combat/ (Updates slowly because GH pages :/ )

[@artpropaganda420]

Freeflow combat system shines on hardest difficulties in arkham and shadow of war

[@dudescrawny5859]

I'm amazed at how you don't have more subscribers. This is one of the best analysis videos I've seen, and it definitely shuts down the two button argument hard. I would love to see your opinion of other combat systems like Devil May Cry and Sekiro too, both of them being very different from Arkham and each other, and still being my favourites.

[@OrangeLightnings]

I tried something on Sekiro back when it first came out, but it didn't come together. LOVE the combat system. One on one duels feel amazing, especially when enemy attack patterns become ingrained in muscle memory. Too much of the game is about getting the right spacing with groups of enemies, which is what Souls games were all about, but I thought it worked against this one. I would die (twice) for a sequel with more tough boss fights. I only played DMC5 once, and the combat never really clicked with me. I didn't quite understand the depth, I never got it feeling great in my hands. I think I would have to play it a lot more to really 'get' it, but I wasn't willing to devote the time. I defer to TGBS on that one.

[@dudescrawny5859]

@@OrangeLightnings that's okay man. Great to hear that you loved Sekiro. I played through the game five times and am currently on my sixth playthrough and I absolutely agree with what you said. Deflecting feels you feel like a god when you know the enemy patterns. As for DMC, I understand if you didn't like it. It's one of the most complex combat systems out there, and although it's easy to pick up, it takes a ton of time to master. I still suck at it, but I think I'm moderately able to piece together simple combos. Just in case you want to see the full experience of the system, I suggest you watch a video by donguri990. No pressure tho!

[@CrowofYharnam]

Lol it's still two buttons at the end of the day the combat is extremely shallow the game plays by itself

[@CrowofYharnam]

Devil may cry actually requires skill unlike this trash

[@GameBrainOfficial]

Well executed video mate, good stuff!

[@OrangeLightnings]

Thanks!

[@justinkerstholt81]

Really loved the Arkham games yet I didn't know the combat could be this complex, I guess I should play the games and try to get better at the combat. Great video!

[@OrangeLightnings]

Boot it up on NG+ if you can, keep all those gadgets, and see what you can do with 'em. You can also get pretty creative in the predator missions, if you don't want to wait around for a silent takedown. The Arkham games control like a dream.

[@CrowofYharnam]

It's definitely NOT complex it's one fucking button 🤦‍♂️

[@pr0tored129]

Damn I just found your channel and I'm baffled you don't have more subs. You've put so much effort and thought into your videos it's amazing! You went as far as to make an entire score calculating tool just to display your point better! Who does that!? Keep up the good work man

[@OrangeLightnings]

I figure the best way to stand out on a platform full of folks making great content, is to do what they don't. Thanks for your support, that's the payoff that makes it worth it.

[@dmdizzy]

These style of combat systems, the two-button combo-buildup system? I love them. They make me feel like my character is a combat god. Shadow of Mordor/War are where I first encountered it.

[@CrowofYharnam]

Lol you feel it because the a.i is absolute garbage

[@nik774]

@@CrowofYharnam no one cares about you.

[@ioda006]

Came here looking for descriptions of different game fighting mechanics. Very nicely done!

[@hunterofhunters1326]

I'm loving this channel, great analysis. As a guy who has gotten the platinum trophy for every Arkham game (Origins excluded), the combat is complex and hard to be perfect at, and anybody who says otherwise is bad at it.

[@OrangeLightnings]

Arkham Origins excluded for good reason if you ask me - I could never find the rhythm in that one.

[@hunterofhunters1326]

@@OrangeLightnings To be honest I cant say, I played it when I was 11 on the Xbox 360, and I didn't realise what makes a game good or not so I loved it to death. It's also my first Arkham game so I remember it fondly, but other than that I see no reason why it's a great game other than the boss fights, only nostalgia.

[@slkjvlkfsvnlsdfhgdght5447]

that doesn't make sense: if you're bad at it, fhen why would you say it's hard?

[@krvr989]

This videos editing is one of the best i have ever seen. Good job :)

[@e2rqey]

Your putting out great content! Earned my sub in 2 videos. I can tell you put a huge amount of work into every video. Your definitely gonna blow up. I'm rootin' for ya!

[@SWTobito0702]

I am honestly surprised you only have rougly 6600 subs and even more so that you weren't recommended to me until today. You're channel is awesome, man! Consider me a new subscriber of yours.

[@OrangeLightnings]

I'm grateful for the KZbin algorithm, nobody is entitled to an audience. Thanks for watching!

[@AftermathRain]

I hope you do a video talking about Knight's combat. Its depth is superior to City's. You should also talk about the insane amount of setups the stun+beatdown gives you. Other than that, amazing video.

[@Boss_monke_gt]

Arkham city had my fav combat for sure

[@hughmanatee7626]

I remember how much my hands would hurt after facing off against bosses like Ra’s al ghul and Joker with goons on Hard New Game+ Felt like a champ every time lol

[@slkjvlkfsvnlsdfhgdght5447]

I really wish you could replay those bosses without having to replay the entire game

[@Dustinzero117]

I can't wait for you to grow in popularity. Fantastic video! I'm quite interested on how Spider-man PS4 will compare with the Arkham games once it comes out. Hoping for the best

[@OrangeLightnings]

I'm really optimistic for Spider-Man. His moveset looks really expressive, it just looks like there's so much you can do at any given time. It also looks like it differentiates itself from Arkham in a lot of ways. I can't wait to get my hands on it.

[@non-fictionaltoughguy1208]

The only game I mastered the combat in using fame data, distance and timing is how you keep your combo up knowing which moves can Batman land depending on how long you hold the attack button, his wind up varies based on how long you hold the button

[@OrangeLightnings]

Woah, are you telling me holding the punch button will create a longer windup? I never knew that!

[@non-fictionaltoughguy1208]

@@OrangeLightnings yup youre welcome, glad you learned something new today

[@ryanhoxie]

Also, does anyone else prefer Arkham City combat to Arkham Knight? There just seems to be something about the Arkham Knight combat that I don't really like when compared to Arkham City. Still not really sure what it is though.

[@anxjos]

Knight is way less floaty and more responsive and fluid imo

[@idontwant2beasoldiermama241]

Arkham City it's my favourite Arkham game, it's the perfect Batman game, but gameplaywise, I prefer Arkham Knight, Rocksteady really perfected the combat system

[@leonpaelinck]

In some ways I found the combat in Knight a bit "too much" but in other ways it feels way better. But I absolutely HATED the Titans or Twins in City. Those were much more fun in Asylum

[@connorforce01]

After 4 games with this combat system, I only mastered it in Arkham Knight, Knife dodging felt so poorly explained that it took me 4 games to figure it out, and I still not think the way I do it is correct, but hey, it works for me.

[@OrangeLightnings]

You need to hold triangle (or Y), and press back on the stick on each stab. If you press triangle AND press back on the stick on each stab, he'll do the takedown. The game is weirdly forgiving about giving you the takedown, and it makes the move feel REALLY inconsistent, and confusing.

[@connorforce01]

Yeah, I pull the stick in a direction and press Y/Triangle at the same time for each attack. Example: Y+>, Y+

[@pieinyourfacestreax5138]

Connor Force Same, I only figured it out on my 3rd play through AC, and I still can't do it right, probably because I go for the take-down and miss everytime.

[@idontwant2beasoldiermama241]

You need to hold back and press triangle at the same time to dodge knifes/swords And if you're going for the take down, then you do the same, but stop pressing the buttons between attacks, and then press them again when they're about to hit. It's all about the timing, swords are faster than knifes and hit 4 times.

[@ryszakowy]

the fact that arkham games actually allow noobs to beat them by attack and counter mashing AND allow us the batman personifications and absolute arkham veterans to do awesome montages with use of all gadgets and strategies speaks volumes on how well the games were made

[@spiraldj]

Don't hear anyone complaining about Insomniac's combat system in Spiderman. It's basically copying Arkham combat. The truth is the Batman Arkham series revolutionized video game combat

[@leonpaelinck]

Not really.

[@leonpaelinck]

It has some similarities but they're definitly not copied.

[@spiraldj]

@@leonpaelinck The animations are different but it's built on the same system. Sure there are different abilities, but at its core it's the same. Looking back at this comment, I regret framing Insomniac as a copy cat when they were in actually just inspired by Arkham (I don't think anyone would disagree with that).

[@CrowofYharnam]

Assassins creed DID and batman copied it

[@drizzypuffs523]

About time someone gets it and can eloquently string the words to describe it!

[@gameragodzilla]

When it comes to game depth, there’s a difference, I suppose, between “skills based depth” and “tactics based depth”. Probably not the best words to use, but I’ll define the former as “how to do something” while the latter is “what to do”. Arkham combat is a system where the skills based aspect is very low, due to the controls being very simplified compared to other combat systems. I don’t need to memorize complicated button combos or get pitch perfect timing to pull something off. But I think the tactical depth, especially for later Arkham games, certainly is quite there since there are many enemy types, with different types of moves, health, vulnerabilities, etc. which require the player to think about. So while each individual move is easy to pull off, I still need to constantly know which move to use at which time to maximize efficiency and minimize damage. And honestly, the types of games I enjoy playing generally always emphasizes the latter more than the former. Now they’re not mutually exclusive, since plenty of games have both, but I generally prefer games where the execution of certain moves is actually fairly simple while the tactical thought is very in depth. The reason comes down to how the player improves. To improve skills, you require constant repetition. Do the thing you’re trying to pull off over and over again until you can do it easily. Personally I find that type of practice and improvement boring. Whereas to improve tactics, you have to actually look at the situation and come up with a plan. And if the plan doesn’t work, you have to go back, figure out why it didn’t work, and correct what you think is the mistake. That allows for more thinking and problem solving which I think is more engaging than rout repetition to get something down. And that’s why I love Arkham combat so much. All the controls are very simplified so pulling stuff off compared to other games is easy with many stuff automated, but the gameplay still has depth due to all the different variables you still have to consider and when and where to do what.

[@techbro_4309]

Once you actually realise how deep the combat can be, it feels like you're playing an entirely different game with endless possibilities!!

[@thatsaweirdone]

Arkham Combat is really close to my heart. At a (fairly) young age, when I played games casually, the Arkham combat was the system which pushed me to wish to develop a profound knowledge of the system. I don't know how, and I don't know if I can now, but I found a website which gave me exactly what I wanted; all the rules I needed to know. That allowed me to skyrocket my skill and experience in the games, making my playthroughs infinitely more enjoyable and enthralling. To help some who might not know; -Your combo will be rest after 1 second of combat inactivity (by combat inactivity I refer to moves which are not part of the combat loop; running, crouching, etc.) -Your combo will be reset at 2 dodges. You can do 1 dodge, but if you perform a second one, combo goes to zero -But Redirect doesn't have that limitation (Redirect is the dodge performed by vaulting above enemies' heads). You can do a Redirect infinite times without your combo resetting -Ground Pound ks the most rewarding move in your arsenal (75 points), which explains why the move doesn't give i-frames and takes long to finish. This information allows you to maximise your point-gain from an encounter -Batclaw Slam is useful to reposition quickly throughout the arena -Multi-Ground Takedowns and Batswarm have a multiplier for how many people hit with their effects. If you hit 5 people with a combo of 35, you get 5 times 35 times the points for the move. Same goes for Multi-Ground Takedown -Putting down the Explosive Gel (applicable for Arkham City and Origins only) on the ground will not break your combo; however, detonating it with no enemies around will break your combo streak -Redirecting Aerial Attacks is a thing. For that, you start the Aerial Attack on one enemy, then use a direction and press the Strike button (Note; Arkham Origins, for no fathomable reason, lengthened the animation for this move, making it a risky move with people around

[@flyingbird8695]

I just love how the critical hits depend of skill instead of a %chance compared to most games

[@elliottobelliotnwaobi4779]

Watching this put a smile on my face - good times. Shoutouts Rocksteady Studios.

[@empty_melodies]

Great video! Wanna add that I recently beat Jokers Carnival and I couldn’t have done it as easily without Batswarm. That came in clutch when I focused on the bigger dudes like the twin and Titan. Kept everyone else off me while I pounded them.

[@OrangeLightnings]

So THAT’S what it’s for!

[@bradenhogan2]

Should make one about the depth in the predator sections. The system is implemented so organically that nobody notices it exists Batman’s stated goal is to make criminals afraid. Fear is turned into an adaptive difficulty in these games. The more people in a room Batman takes out silently (in other words, the more efficiently you beat the encounter), the quicker and more afraid the criminals will get. You as the player are aligned with Batman because you both want to do well and make enemies afraid The catch is that the more afraid enemies become, the more quickly and sporadically they move, and the more often they look behind them. This all makes it slightly more difficult to sneak up to them and take them down. If you go into an encounter guns-a blazing, the fight will take longer to advance, which means it will take longer for criminals to reach the sporadic, “terrified” state. You get punished with longer times for less efficient play, but you get challenges with more sporadic and varied enemy behavior earlier if you take them out quickly The better you do, the game gets slightly harder This effect is neutered by the fact that in the games after Asylum, you’re given so many gadgets that the last 1-2 guys being in “Terrified” state aren’t much of a threat because you can disable or disarm their gun, or do any other number of things. This could’ve been balanced better, at least on higher difficulties - perhaps putting more enemy types that force you to use your disruptor and smoke early on and allowing more enemies to reach the “Terrified” state at the same time, but the system is still great on a conceptual level I just wish they pushed this mechanic to a further extreme. I always trash Origins for not doing new stuff, but imagine it implemented something like the nemesis system in the Mordor series where the better you get at quickly and stealthily taking out enemies in predator encounters, the more quickly enemies become spooked in general and it gets more difficult to maintain the same level of play. A year 2 game would suit itself perfectly to this because your actions as the player would directly affect Batman’s early development as a legend, which affects how the game plays out. They could’ve had enemies that were more easily alerted to you, they could’ve had pre-activated mines/traps for players that did well where some players wouldn’t have that, and they could’ve thrown more enemies of different variations in while players on the lower end would see less enemies and more standard enemies. This system would’ve simultaneously prevented the criticism that the game didn’t do anything to innovate and also gave the game it’s own unique place in the Arkham series - both things it desperately lacked and needed Great mechanic, perfect for Batman - wish more people noticed it’s depth!

[@OrangeLightnings]

YOU should make it :) Nemesis is an incredibly good fit for Batman, considering he doesn't kill his enemies. It's easy to imagine certain leaders taking important responsibilities should they defeat you, and return if you defeat them. I think Arkham City absolutely nailed the Predator sections. You could take it slow and quiet, or you could go in fast and (somewhat) loud. The imbalance of being outgunned made these encounters some of my favorites, the risk vs reward is huge! Similar to the hand to hand combat, the skill floor is pretty low, and the ceiling is reasonably high. There's a score counter, but it's pretty marginal, and I found it hard to get excited about. I thought Knight really suffered in making larger arenas, and by adding enemies that you couldn't quickly eliminate. I don't have very many kind words for Origin.

[@jackmcmorrow9397]

free flow is a great way to describe it, since it all kind of comes down to mashing X and occasionally pressing Y and even more rarely B

[@taylord5381]

Man, it's no dmc, but the sound effects and animations alone make arkham combat so fun.

[@slkjvlkfsvnlsdfhgdght5447]

it's not supposed or trying to be dmc. it's perfect (almost) gor what it is

[@enzoamore8971]

It is like DMC in a way. The combat is easy if you're boring, but complex if you want to be stylish. Both games aren't about beating the enemies, but to do cool and epic moves.

[@BaronR]

Every small channel that I sub below 10k grows to be really good and big. I think it's Your time mate :D Great vids!

[@sandwich1601]

I've watched almost all your videos in the span of a week and I have to say this is a great channel. I like the subject matter and the angle in which you discuss things. Keep it up! BTW I don't know if you're a fan of any particular 00's arcade racing games but I'd definitely watch a video about it.

[@OrangeLightnings]

I'm going to get into trouble for my infatuation with Burnout: Paradise

[@ccc-hk6gz]

Genius video overall. Funny and nice intro and out to. Nice separation of Arkham games very strategic and smart

[@matthewkim2983]

Hey Orange Lightning. Great video. Some questions though. Which game is your favorite in the series? Which game had the best combat in your opinion? And which batsuit was your favorite? And did you enjoy the game and the combat in Arkham Origins? Again, fantastic video!

[@OrangeLightnings]

Favorite game is TOUGH - I thought the predator segments really dropped off in Knight, and it's disappointing that the creative boss battles with Mr. Freeze and Raj were replaced with the Batmobile, BUT Gotham is just breathtaking, and dropping in to pick up side missions because you see a building engulfed in flames, or a Manbat in the skies feels like you are being stretched thin, like you imagine Batman would be. Knight is full of creativity, passion, and ambition, all polished to the nth degree, but sometimes that ambition gets in the way. It's really close, between City and Knight, I guess I prefer to PLAY City, but explore in Knight. Combat is ALSO tough, but I think it's City - On harder difficulties, Knight's enemies become more (too) aggressive, and it's not as fun to play when they're all armed to the teeth in the late game. I think City feels great from start to finish on any difficulty, it throws fewer enemies at you, so you can be a little more thoughtful and less reactive in how you deal with them. Batsuit - I don't have a favorite, I love how they all get beat up over the course of the game. Knight's looks the least "goofy", but Asylum and City both lean better into their camp. Arkham Origins... well let's just say there's a reason it didn't come up. I didn't like Gotham at all, it just stretched out City's map to the detriment of the game, and I NEVER found the rhythm in the combat. The gameplay doesn't grow out of where it ended in City, it doesn't move the franchise forward at all. Troy Baker played an amazing Joker, though, and I'll always think of it as one of his best performances. How would you answer these questions?

[@matthewkim2983]

Thanks for the reply. Interesting thoughts on Arkham Origins. I actually really enjoyed the combat and the gothic snowy Gotham we got to explore. The shock gloves in that game were overpowered but it was a nice way to let loose when you're getting overwhelmed. My favorite game? It's either City or Knight. I definitely have more nostalgia for City since its the first Batman game I ever played, but Knight is the most expansive and the one I always return too. There's just so much content and new variety with the combat and new enemy types. Best combat for sure, but like you said, it does get very challenging. Favorite batsuit? It's either the Batsuit worn in Arkham City or the Arkham Knight armored Batsuit he upgrades too that lets him perform fear takedowns. Can't decide between either though. Arkham City's batsuit has the classic comic book aesthetic but Arkham Knight's Batsuit has that high-tech militaristic look that I also really love. Two extremes, but both look amazing and both capture the look of Batman. I'm really enjoying this channel. Keep up the great work Orange Lightning!

[@OrangeLightnings]

Oh MAN I forgot about the shock gloves in Origins, it's been years since I played that one. You just reminded me how much I loved the military in Knight - the sense of escalation and scale is handled really well throughout the series. The military is really clever about the ways it tries to stay one step ahead of Batman, but he's always got something up his sleeve. It really pushes him to his limit. It's amazing how far Rocksteady came as a studio in just 3 games, and I cannot wait to see what they do next. Glad your enjoying these, this particular video was especially difficult.

[@matthewkim2983]

Your analysis in this video was incredible! Don't sweat it.

[@Great_Scott_]

Obviously the Arkham City batsuit is the worst and most paradoxical Batman design ever created.

[@fazecoomsock]

I think why I play new game plus is to see the bat suit shaped well again

[@overloadingbrain]

Dude with all due respect the throw takedown in AA wasn't that useless, you know. In challenges you could use it to throw someone deep down in the sewers or throw them at the security gates like the ones at 1:48 which is good if the challenge has a timer cause it finishes their asses off immediately .

[@OrangeLightnings]

How dare you disrespect by rightly calling out my error! I wish I experimented more before calling the move useless. The bat swarm isn't really useless either. It can rack up more points depending on how many bad guys are caught in the swarm. It's the best special move to aid in score attack.

[@Alcatrax_]

Wtf this is a cool channel why does it have so few views

[@OrangeLightnings]

You'd be surprised how many small channels put out great content. Most people subscribe to large channels, but most channels are small, it's just statistics. 500 views looks modest, but it's kind of amazing to me that more people watched this video than were in my graduating class.

[@diegocastro5351]

I hope the new arkham game has martial artists

[@hughmanatee7626]

Arkham City is one of my favorite games and the challenge room with the new game+ on highest difficulty made it insanely fun! I remember spending whole days trying to get the highest possible score for those super challenges of 3 different scenarios: Combat, Predator, Combat or Predator, Combat, Predator etc

[@OrangeLightnings]

I didn't get to talk about them here, but the predator challenges were SOOO great, you could always do some really creative stuff. Trying to find a fast route to clear a room ALWAYS felt amazing.

[@hughmanatee7626]

While I have you here I might as well tell you your content has good quality. I've already watched your Uncharted 4, Deus Ex Human Revolution, and Night In the Woods videos I'll go back to make sure I liked them lol Edit: mentioned wrong game

[@OrangeLightnings]

@@hughmanatee7626 haha! Thanks, I appreciate that.

[@thefunder1]

Check out my friend's world record on Lost City (extreme) predator challenge ; kzbin.info/www/bejne/eH7PpoiKgqx7fs0

[@utsavbasu1048]

I am bad at this combat, fun is that i beat asylum at normal and failed miserably at the 2nd last fight of 2 titans but out of overconfidence of finishing the game I started city at hard and now I can't even go out a fight without dying.

[@RedScarlet2419]

0:42 and they say Batman doesn't kill

[@SianaGearz]

That's a very good vid. Wonder where the dude disappeared to.

[@MonsieurEldritch]

He died

[@ramp8536]

Hey man, I just saw this video, I want to say it's great, and I especially love the part at 2:18 where you list off the functions of Batman's gadgets in sync with the gameplay. Great stuff!

[@OrangeLightnings]

Getting that timed right in gameplay took over a dozen attempts. Thank you so much for noticing the little stuff, makes it worth it :)

[@pointlessendeavors5653]

I liked the throw in arkham asylum. Throw a dude into a group, or into a force field or over a rail. I think they should keep it instead of the aerial stun that came after.

[@MeggaMann_theBlueLion]

As someone who just discovered Arkham Knights last week I fell in love instantly with the combat and couldn’t believe I missed this all these years. Now I’m going back and started Origins last night and will play all games in chronological order just to get back to Knights. Best comic book hero game imo. Spider-Man take notes

[@hiwebula]

Yes man, Superman is superior and more compared compare to easy game Spiderman

[@MeggaMann_theBlueLion]

@@hiwebula what I’m saying is the devs of spider-man should take notes that a regular human hits hard and takes out enemies the way he does. When Spider-Man is 10x’s stronger so his hits should look harder than Batman’s. Superman has nothing to do with this

[@Micah__]

I want a Rocksteady Daredevil game!

[@zakenmaru8612]

Really, people dislike the combat? Most people I've seen online and in person love it, myself included! Hands down best combat system in any game I've played so far!

[@CrowofYharnam]

The Combat is for idiots people who don't like to think just spam a button to win lol combat system for babies

[@nik774]

@@CrowofYharnam The game punishes mindless button spam.

[@Batman-nz2ue]

Hard difficulty all the time with new games baby.

[@14isoldenough]

I had ot down. Its been three years and i lost it.

[@iamthisiam]

To this very day, I return to the last Arkham game because it is the epitome of what a player like me desires from a combat system! 10/10 combat, 8.9/10 plot.

[@gaellorenzo3006]

in my opinion batman arkham games has the best combat.. it makes you feel like batman, i remember just going there on the city knocking everyone out lol :P

[@CrowofYharnam]

It's trash it's for babies no skill needed just mash square and triangle

[@hammerite6418]

@@CrowofYharnam my god you are pathetic you’ve commented on a video calling people babies for enjoying a combat system go outside and touch some grass your not being “witty” with these comments your acting like a total douche you people give souls fans a bad name your pathetic nothing more nothing less

[@Dctctx]

@@CrowofYharnamdo that and see how far you get

[@CrowofYharnam]

@Dctctx get a life loser this was 2 years ago

[@Spidoc]

arkham franchise isn't over... WE BACK THIS MONTH

[@XViper123]

Best combat in any game I've ever played.

[@CrowofYharnam]

Combat is shit press one button to win this game is a cancer to gaming

[@descendantofartorias2067]

You haven't played many games then

[@thefalsekingslayer3717]

It's like a real time game of chess where you don't take turns

[@EarselBill-bi4xr]

While they didn’t require thinking about any gadgets OR special moves, I still miss the martial artist enemy types, I really wish Arkham Knight had those

[@jaykob2482]

Why do I keep dropping combos?! I'm 10% into Arkham Asylum and I'm not "bad" at combat, generally speaking. I basically just assault an enemy until I see the icon above another enemy's head, indicating that he's going to attact and then I evade, and repeat the process. Sometimes I get a short combo string going, but I simply can't keep it going and I don't know why! Please help!

[@OrangeLightnings]

You can do your first three punches on the same enemy, but after that, you outright knock each foe you hit on the ground. As soon as your combo is over 3, you have to alternate your target. Don't hit the same guy twice in a row, or Batman will punch the air. Let me know if it works!

[@jaykob2482]

@@OrangeLightnings Thanks for the help, I appreciate it! I'll let you know within a couple days because I've been really busy. So should I hit an enemy two, three times and then alternate between other enemies, and continue to repeat the process? What do I press to cover a long distance to hit the next enemy like you do? Also, instead of dodging an attack when an enemy's "head signal" goes off with triangle, do I "jump" to the next enemy like you? Because sometimes I feel like dodging makes me drop a combo; but I could be wrong because I'm not that experienced. I mean, it works for preserving my health and defeating foes, but I drop combos constantly. Thanks again, bro.

[@OrangeLightnings]

@@jaykob2482 Strike an enemy 3 times, after that, distance doesn't matter. You could strike in the direction of someone on the other side of the arena and Batman will flip and spin ALLLL the way over to punch them. That's not the case before your third punch, where you have to be hitting someone close. It's the same button as your ordinary strike (square). I tend to jump over enemies more than counter because it's easy for me to press triangle too early in anticipation of the head signal and screw it up. There's nothing wrong with evading or countering in those circumstances, that's just how I play. As long as you're jumping over an enemy's head, your combo won't drop. If you jump "away" (not over a goon), I think your combo stays up, unless you do that twice. It takes a little time, you're still early game.

[@jaykob2482]

@@OrangeLightnings Yea, that makes sense, I just have to practice. I guess I need to be patient with myself because I'm learning a new combat system and it's still early in the game like you said. You're the man for taking time out of your day to help me.

[@OrangeLightnings]

It's my pleasure.

[@Snacks256]

The issue for me is the difference between depth and complexity. Most of the tools are methods of crowd control. Knock enemies over, pull an enemy closer and knock them over, disable an enemy. They don't fundamentally transform Batman's core movement and attacks. When I play on Hard with counter indicators turned off, I definitely need to pay more attention to each enemy and maximizing crowd control so each fight doesn't simply drag on forever, but there's no killer technique to really advance my efficiency, just knock enemies over and multi finisher before they wear down my health. Dealing with multiple enemy types is less like switching stances/ styles in Nioh, DMC, or Yakuza, and more like a game of Bop It. Something like shuriken cancel or s in Ninja Gaiden and jump cancel in Devil May Cry fundamentally change the game; jump cancel in particular can be incorporated into almost every single move in Devil May Cry. But Batman is of course not a character action game, it needs to be stylish with minimal execution barrier. It's why Batman can move at superhuman speed with a single button press, so you don't lose your combo just because the AI meandered out of range. I feel like developers realized the limitations (and of course fatigue) of the combat and moved on to new trends (Soulslike combat?), rather than trying to advance it. I'm not sure how depth can be added to the basic attack/ counter fundamentals without turning it into a slower, more meticulous experience. You could incorporate directional dodging like God Hand and give it a higher reward than a basic counter, give Batman some "fixed" animations for certain moves instead of every attack past x3 combo being a random flying kick, but at that point you're just making a Batman skin for Yakuza or maybe Sleeping Dogs, not an advancement of Arkham's combat.

[@OrangeLightnings]

I think Rocksteady really pushed this combat system as far as they possibly could by the time they got to Knight. It's hard to imagine any future game in this franchise supporting greater depth in action, which is why Gotham Knights and Suicide Squad are both emphasizing co-op and RPG elements. To the enthusiasm of.... well... not me. I appreciate the room City provided for self-imposed challenges, I still can revisit it for that reason. Going loud in a room of armed enemies is a certain kind of thrill, for example. DMC, Bayonetta, and God Hand all place a lot of importance on your positioning and direction, which is where a lot of their complexity comes from. Arkham forgoes all of that, and as you point out, it limits what's possible. If position and orientation don't matter, then a lot of the work is being done for you. Enemies all punch at the same speed, and can all be rendered helpless once knocked over. Knight added more diversity, but more demanding enemies restricted the expression you had in a fight. Knight's combat imposes way more pressure to satisfy the demands of the particular encounter, it's so much more reactive, you have to play it one way. If you want something more technical, the entire combat system's gotta go. The fundamentals only allow so much - and I don't think Rocksteady can advance upon it further. I hope you're already watching GamingBrit, his channel is made for you.

[@Snacks256]

@@OrangeLightnings I've watched GamingBrit. They've already made 3 games, and now their next game is just Batman with co-op and no Batman. They seem like too good of a developer to commit to only a single niche, it's disappointing. I guess Suicide Squad at least won't be a beat em up.

[@BaixaIntencidad]

4:29 Dude, when I started Arkham Origins, I played an Arkham game on PC for the first time (two days ago), it had such a difference in the way you play, you have to use the camera to change the gliding direction, you need to look to where you're punching, the scroll button as stun is such a good, but such a bad choice, just as the counter button

[@ryanhoxie]

I, too, dislike the cat woman sections. Especially that when you have the DLC the game opens with it rather than with the great Hugo Strange opening.

[@kizuma4269]

A great video that made me enter the combat of this series

[@SushiGhost97]

The Arkham Combat system while fun, tends to show it's age on numerous occasions. It was good for it's time, but it's not hard to see why many developers have dropped it. It has far too many restrictions. To keep battles engaging new enemies with highly specific weakpoints have to be introduced constantly. It sounds good on paper, but having only 1 or 2 ways to defeat a basic shield or armor enemy just shows the limitations that the system has. You're not using only 2 buttons(that's an exagerration if I ever heard one) but you're not thinking too hard either because due to the limited ways in which "tougher" enemies are defeated, you will always approach most scenarios in a similar way. And nowhere does this system show it's weaknesses more than in it's bosses. With a few exceptions, most bosses are typically beaten in old school Zelda fashion: hit the enemy on their obvious weak spot with the one gadget that works, and beat up the waves of mooks that come your way until the battle is over. It's far from bad, and I'd definitely say it's better than all of its imitators, but it's just not very deep or interesting especially when compared to something like DMC, Kingdom Hearts 2 or God of War.

[@OrangeLightnings]

Well put. I think Knight stretched that system as far as it could go, and you can feel the cracks. 5 years later no iteration on it from another studio has moved the formula forward. I also think that's why Knight opted to have its bosses be... you know... car combat. I don't know if this specific combat system was supposed to live beyond this franchise though. It's got some shortcomings, but they last the length of the three games that matter just fine. I'd really like to see Rocksteady build something totally new now. Funny you mention KH2, a friend and I were discussing how we felt about the numbers showing up in yesterday's Gotham Knights trailer. KH2 is a stats based RPG through and through, but the combat system is still demanding and intense. Introducing more RPG elements into a game can boost a really great combat system (the same is true of Horizon Zero Dawn). What scares me is when it just substitutes where the combat system should go. Assassin's Creed Odyssey is an exercise in attrition. I don't think whatever combat system they're coming up with in Gotham Knights (or Suicide Squad) is going to be better than what was achieved with the Arkham games, just based on what was said yesterday. But I'd really love to be wrong. Assuming you meant old God of War?

[@SushiGhost97]

@@OrangeLightnings I'm actually really excited for the new combat system in Gotham Knights. I love how it's less "linear" in design, and I'm happy that they removed the counter button entirely. It makes it so enemies can be more dangerous and unpredicatable since you can't just tap triangle to get out of most situations. It will definitely make bosses more challenging and dynamic as opposed to simplistic "puzzles". I can't say I'm a big fan of the RPG aspects, but considering it's been confirmed that enemies scale with you making level progression kinda pointless anyway I'm actually ok with it since I can(hopefully) just turn off the floating numbers from the hud, and enjoy it as a pure action game. Also I was referring to old God of War... Mostly. I love a lot of the new mechanics in GOW4 and I think it has better overall game feel, but I'm not a fan of the color coated enemies, the lack of a jump button or the over reliance on gear as opposed to skill, especially since it doesn't fit the theme of being the God of War that killed an entire pantheon of Gods with nothing but a man skirt and sandles.

[@OrangeLightnings]

The gear doesn't work thematically with anything GOW4's got going on either. I think it's there just to justify Brock, Sindri, and the side quests. It's a shame because, those are really great elements, but the core gameplay feels hampered by making gear so important. I still really like that game though. Regarding Knights, I have the same hope. I'd really like to play it as a pure action game, and I hope that part of it doesn't feel compromised. Don't you be knocking the Freeze fight from City bub, I'll fight you.

[@SushiGhost97]

@@OrangeLightnings Honestly they could have replaced all the armor pieces you acquire through side quests with runic spells and Atreus' summons on top of the exp used to unlock skills. There's more than enough of them to justify one per side quest. Also 1000% agree on city Freeze. He is top tier... I just can't say the same about any other boss tbh lol. They look cool, but that's mostly it, tho I gotta say: knocking Rás al Ghul's lights out at the end of his battle was pretty badass

[@OrangeLightnings]

Rare to see takes this good in KZbin comments. Bashing Raj's face into the butt of his own blade is iconic. Followed up by the new "reverse batarang". The breaks between the fights where Talia would circle you both and deliver exposition was cool. These games had top notch presentation.

[@mookiedt]

Certain enemies have to be hit with one specific attack isn't complex. You just have even less options if you don't use gadgets. Even now it's still unappealing to me. You have a counter button and a ridiculous dodge roll. A game with some depth is going to be easy with those and gadgets.

[@alcapone4635]

2:01 Useless throw? I had the most fun with that combo move. Throwing enemies off cliffs and ledges was always fun. But the move that replaced it in arkham city was useless, I agree with that.

[@henriquemedeiros2840]

I didn't even know there was a multi ground takedown

[@quasi-intellecual3790]

Arkham asylum combat is torture.

[@TheLuconic]

Now if only we can perfect this for online he play. I mean like add counters, parties and moves that break block, special evasion skills, a lot like a fighting game but not too complex like Tekken. The tools are there.

[@Oatlis]

This video may be old but is still really good so how do you do that move where you jump off an enemy during the aerial takedown? I never figured it out

[@OrangeLightnings]

Ahhh! The move I do to feel cool as hell! Before the aerial attack lands, point the stick toward another enemy and strike (Square or X). It's satisfying, and a MUCH safer way to use that move.

[@henker69]

for me, city was the peak of the franchise. even though later titles looked slightly better city was the one for the books - perfect package. watching your video makes me wanna rock it once again but on my pc and controller. but: i recall that the so-called "game-of-the-year"edition came up with a horrible bug or two. 1. malfunction when saving the game (save itself went "normal", no crash, no error-reports but when starting the game again nothing was saved, back to zero every time 2. much worse: the mapping for the controller was completely messed up, not only one damn single button was mapped as in the ps3-version, even the camera was inverted, almost like sabotage. checked many forums, contacted some reel inside-pc-cracks, tried all possible approaches (at least all those that came to my humble mind): ingame, patch, bugfix, alter the engine.ini, x-padder/x360 - outcome next to zero. somehow i finally managed to alter the right-hand-buttons (set the properties of the file to "read only" after changing) and guess what. next day everything back to zero, even the file's properties were reset to standard value - never seen that before and even now i wonder that this was possible and how. retrying prooved again pointless. that's why: does any know about the matter or had same problems with that "goty"-edition or are there any other working solutions in the meantime? in many posts i read that it seemed to be a problem with that"goty"-edition only. i'm not the type for resigning or giving up so easily. but after 7 days of canstantly tryin and trying , my controller ended up in tyni pieces after being tossed at the wall

[@godoftune]

1:32 “Theres not really a reason to use either” is 🧢. Its way easier to deal with knife and stun stick enemies by just knocking them over with a combo baterang. The ultra batclaw is also insanely useful as it will detain ur enemies for a super long time as they get pulled and knocked to the ground. Just look how the ultra batclaw is combo’d with the explosive gel in speedruns to defeat titan enemies super fast.

[@godoftune]

2:10 Ur inexperience of arkham asylum was shown when after that in the city section, you said, “the baterang now comes in three’s” when it already came in threes in asylum

[@godoftune]

AND @ 2:48 you mentioned the stun sticks as if they were a new entry when they were in asylum? Also having to stun shield enemies isnt something that new as u had to stun knife enemies in asylum…

[@godoftune]

3:24 Bro if you really think you can “just spam punch and counter” in asylum, ur not getting past wave two of scarecrows nightmare LOL

[@leonkenedy2988]

I dont know why they removed Batswarm from City and not put it into Knight. It was a great move for crowded control and gives you more of a breathing room like the EMP from the Batmobile. Also, if we are also talking about the predator gameplay it was kind of underwhelming (well not to the extreme) as well.

[@OrangeLightnings]

Predator gameplay was underwhelming in Knight you mean? I totally agree. City had balanced these sections really well, Knight did not.

[@leonkenedy2988]

You should do a video about the predator gameplay. It would be interesting to see the changes. And yes, it was underwhelming in some area. Especially the fear takedown, they are basically discourage you from trying to really stealthy now. Not too mention, the ability to batclaw the enemy off the ledges. I loved that move and tactic but they seem to just removed it for some reason.

[@OrangeLightnings]

@@leonkenedy2988 I keep thinking about doing it, but I just have less to say about them. In City, you could get really creative pulling or pushing people off ledges, almost every gadget could be integrated in clever ways. I don't just want to list all the fun things City did though - and all the things Knight ruined. But while I'm here, WHY did Knight invalidate so many tactics with the fear takedown. The best strategy was no longer to be clever and creative - find a lone soldier, strangle them, then fear 3 more that are just standing around. This design choice made one of the core pillars of the game into a chore.

[@leonkenedy2988]

An in depth video about both the Asylum, City and Knight stealth gameplay would be enough time. I think you are one of the best person for this in delth stealth gameplay. You should do it. And yeah, it still stunned why Rocksteady decided to do that. Dont fix what was already perfect before. It would be great if they could just replace the fear takedown with the ultra batclaw from Asylum or make it so that you can only use it once or twice. Also, the gadget in Knight are not really well used anymore like in City does. I missed those.

[@OrangeLightnings]

@@leonkenedy2988 Oh time is no issue for me - depth is! I wouldn't rule it out, but I'd want to take an interesting angle on it rather than just show off my mad skills at the game.

[@latbat58]

Arkham combat is simply a masterpiece. No exaggeration. They did an amazing job. It is fun, looks n feels amazing, fits the game perfectly, easy to learn and hard to master. After all these years I don't remember much about arkham city but I still remember how amazing it look and felt to destroy enemy weapons after unlocking its move.

[@CrowofYharnam]

Combat is garbage there is no strategy all that happens is the game plays by itself

[@hikarirangestu2669]

In asylum I would throw henchmen Over ledges and off the map.

[@Qladstone]

8:38 Thank goodness!

[@M64bros]

I didn't know you can do that!?!?!?

[@oscarchavezavellan2738]

I remember losing brain cells when matthewmatosis called this combat "a glorified quit-time event" , I was like "seriously? You're just gonna ignore all the options and variations this game can provide?". I'd get that kind of commentary on an assassin's creed game, but not here.

[@OrangeLightnings]

He's really good, it's a shame he came to that conclusion. It's risky throwing stones when you have a pedigree for being comprehensive in your work. I like to think he feels differently.

[@CrowofYharnam]

There are no options or choices in this game it's mash square then triangle then jump over an enemy the combat is laughably awful

[@arjuna6224]

​@@CrowofYharnam"mash square and triangle" mashing in the Arkham games will just get you hit a lot of times, besides there are enemies with shields and stun batons who you can't hit directly, you can destroy their weapons with Batman's disarm and destroy, and using gadgets to your advantage, with other characters you have to press the stun button two times and the jump to takedown a shield enemy and redirect and hit the stun enemy from behind, so there is no mashing.

[@austin7280]

Which Arkham game do you think has the most diverse combat? (Besides Arkham knight, I’ve already played that; I’m just trying to figure out which Arkham game I want to play).

[@OrangeLightnings]

Diverse? The answer is definitely Knight. City and Origins are about the same, but I think City has the best feeling combat in the series overall. That's the one I would highly recommend.

[@austin7280]

Alright. Thx bud

[@batsy_1939]

you are making a big mistake playing the games depending on combat diversity

[@robbie604604]

(In your description: "its", not "it’s". "It's" is a contraction of "it is".)

[@OrangeLightnings]

fixed.