How the Fantasy of VR is Stopping It from Reaching Its True Potential

[@GamerMuscleVideos]

Maybe degrees of VR support could be more standardized so developers have a target to shoot for or support VR when there game is not really a "full vR game" - Its kinda ironic though how the first games we played in VR with the DK1 were basically quake / Half life and a bunch of non VR games and how these for me are still some of the most fun VR games I have played , game mechanics will always trump waving arms around or graphics/immersion from a display. - VRBasic ( Basically standard console game / pc game with gamepad or mouse keyboard but you can see in 3D and look around / works with VR headset - VRStandard ( Games with more advanced VR features maybe full VR mods motion control support also work with anything else , like many current sims and VR/nonVR games - VROnly ( Pure VR games that only work with motion controllers or are stand alone VR like quest 3 games mostly are / outright designed for VR from ground up games )

[@unotoli]

Why so complicated and dividing? VR MUST be everywhere as an option, for fidelity and commercial success (thanks to 3D engines) 2D into VR - very interesting, desired yet old topic. Unfortunately, there is no standards / support for that, unless its rather inferior streaming. It would be nice to create new wave of discussions (vids, reddits, etc).

[@frankzappa2274]

I agree GM I have always felt like we're getting too fancy with pass-through And mixed reality this is an added cost and a waste of time imo. On the developer side, it's stopping older AAA games from being easily transformed into a simple gamepad/keyboard solutions. Everybody wants full motion controller support and the added complete overhaul of the physics characteristics of the game... Essentially making it a huge pain in the ass for developers to re-release these AAA games we all really want.

[@legendp2011]

would cause severe motion sickness for many, not as comfortable as just using a big 34inch ultrawide monitor (and lower resolution and frame-rate). 3d glassses and a headtracker with a big ultrawide monitor would make more sense at that point

[@KiLDELTA]

I totally agree with this. I play VR sim racing and flight games and i just want to plug it and play like any other monitor with no extra shit and perhaps make it cheaper in the process and maybe more focus towards the screen if we take out all other sensors with regards to controllers, etc. Dont get me wrong, I also love my standalone VR gaming and also highly interactive VR games. But for those games that dont need those, perhaps simple literal plug and play process would be nice.

[@Fspirit01]

Unsubscribing from GM has become part of my daily routine

[@VanGohman]

If the Quest 3 had a full on display port as an option, that would go a long way towards making PC VR the best it can be. When it comes to the tracking, you certainly need headset tracking for VR, so having hand controllers tracked as one of your options isn't really going out of our way for it, and you can put the controllers down and use a mouse and keyboard, hotas or forced feedback racing wheel for the ultimate sim configuration while plugged into your PC. But the thing about having a mobile chip set inside the headset is good for when you aren't near your gaming ready PC.

[@scottcrawford4655]

I COMPLETELY AGREE! There are time where I just want to come home after work and do a quick 20-30 minute race in VR but then I have to turn it on, open the app… bla bla and it takes too long vs just turning on my screen is way quicker so I do that instead but don’t get the full effect. Great point and great video!

[@Mystipaoniz]

Takes me 1 minute (more like 30 seconds) to do "all of that". I'm not sure how it takes you that long to turn it on and click some stuffs. Strange.

[@DaWorstPlaya]

This is exactly what the Windows Mixed Reality (WMR) headsets were supposed to be. The software was standard in Windows, it was plug and play, multiple manufacturers were making cheap affordable headsets, Samsung, Dell, Lenovo, HP. But it didn't sell as well and now WMR has been depricated. So we are to blame for it's failure.

[@Pags222]

@@DaWorstPlaya came here for this. Agreed 💯

[@GamerMuscleVideos]

I think the shoddy quality windows spec VR headsets and it still being janky and not "just working" as it was yet another half arse Microsoft project was to blame to be honest.

[@rogerwennstrom6677]

We are perhaps partially to blame. Microsoft didnt really do that great job on software though, and gave up on it prematurely.

[@brin57]

I had a HP (not even a G2) I bought for $400 AU and it worked great for years and gave me a good experience even in MSFS 2020, until I built a new pc and inadvertantly installed W11 24h2. That same old headset with no stand alone, just todays pancakes and a hdmi would be great. Simple and affordable. There is no reason that Meta couldn't produce this almost immediately if it wanted to, and put it on the market at the same price point as the quest 3S or less.

[@JH-pt6ih]

What "we" are you speaking for?! I'm not to blame in the least and neither are most people. Learn to think for yourself and stop repeating memes and tropes.

[@Gramsci89]

I agree with you on this one , I do really use mine to play seated VR mods for flat games and that's my favourite use case for it

[@revs1567]

Remember your grandmother, don´t watch TV so close......

[@Rave-agent]

Came for the controversy, stayed for the upcoming Steam VR headset monitor strapped to ya face soon to be announced thingy.

[@MrDazTroyer]

VR in racing games is brilliant, you actually feel the sensation and ubdulations on track. Resolution and the Summer are the killers.

[@steve_ire321]

I think the res in modern headsets now are acceptable. You are right about summer, though. We need really light headsets that just sit on your face like skiing glasses or something.

[@sean.d7171]

@MrDazTroyer resolution is very good on eg pimax crystal its just you need 4090 to turn if up enough to see how clear it goes. Also i turn shadows and taxing settings off to get a clear crisp view in vr it's the gpu's holding back vr the most they need 2x the gpu grunt to look same as one 1440p monitor.

[@slick4415]

@@steve_ire321 bigscreen beyond

[@Bluth53]

I've been preaching this exact point to friends, family, and influencers and KZbinrs like you, but they remain unconvinced that headsets are nothing but a great extension of a monitor-one that is so small it could be so much bigger.

[@GamerMuscleVideos]

A VR headset is just another display it's strange to see it otherwise , like a cave system triple screen or projector. Sure it's super immersive and probably one of the best displays with lots of different options and potential over other types of solution. But fundamentally it's a display and not some sort of 90s sci-fi digital teliportation device. Though you can understand the marketing behind it

[@br1rocks]

Honestly all a standalone VR headset is is a cell phone strapped to your face lol.

[@HaasSpitta]

@@GamerMuscleVideosonce hand tracking becomes more standard people will be able to use their headsets without controllers, which is why Apple had the right idea, although I do believe they should’ve gave the option for controllers

[@Anonnymouse53]

That's what I love about my Pimax 8KX. Besides the massive FOV, it's just panels and good tracking. I only use it for seated sim experiences. All headsets are trying to capture/invent a bigger market. I guess we need both.

[@brin57]

All but the Quest are priced for the elite. They will never become mainstream. Good solid basics for the cost of a Quest 3 or less is the missing link for VR to succeed in the mass market.

[@seattime4075]

It's purely comfort (both physical and tired eyes) that often stops me using VR more. Hoping that improves in the future.

[@garytebbenham6843]

Setup aside, a VR headset can offer features beyond what a monitor can. Haptics, eye tracking and hand tracking. With hand tracking, or even with eye tracking, you could flick switches and turn dials in a flight sim, for example. No need to assign keys.

[@toututu2993]

Shooter in VR is amazing and far better than any controllers. Let me explain, there is no aiming sensitive and there is no need for it because the aiming is perfect in the start, and you can do 100,000x more stuff with just individual 2 hands and head.

[@AvenEngineer]

The Reverb G2 I got for $200 (Cad$) ticks all these boxes. Unfortunately, windows mixed reality is hot garbage that just makes the experience more frustrating than it needs to be. Recently installed the Cyberpunk VR mod, and man, that is an experience. The only real barrier to entry now is GPU cost. These displays need all the money you got for a really great experience.

[@BillyWatson-zr7bc]

I thought the reverb G2 was unusable due to Microsoft retiring windows mixed reality? Can you still use the reverb on steam?

[@AvenEngineer]

I'm still running windows 10 on my sim rig and WMR does the thing with Steam.

[@BillyWatson-zr7bc]

@@AvenEngineer interesting, thanks for the info

[@concretec0w]

You've been super clear. All your asking for is an additional way of interfacing with VR devices from a PC and I couldn't agree more. It makes me sad that I can't just load up a 2d game like metal gear solid 5 and run it in VR. I mean it's already 3rd person, so it should just be the same perspective with only a few UI changes needed to make it work in 3d. This is kind of like the old nvidia 3dVision tech (which i used relentlessly for a while) - it was so much fun to play GTA4 in my monitor, as if I was looking through a window into a miniature world - VR makes this an even better experience potentially!

[@Hani_Santa]

At first I was spilling my tea when I read the title, but you actually make a great point for multiple reasons. The truth is that to enjoy VR with triple A titles you need a monster of pc and that's just to expensive. So purely from a commercial financial perspective it doesn't make sense to implement 6dof controllers for most triple A companies. It takes to much time to develop VR implementation with 6dof for a really tiny audience, maybe like at best 5% of your total market. Of course this will eventually change but it's understandable most triple A developers don't make the jump yet. So your idea to just implement VR without 6dof controllers and mechanisms would already be far more immersive then a monitor and really fun. Titles like the upcoming Kingdom Come Deliverance 2 would be amazing in VR with just controllers or a keyboard and mouse. And it's pretty easy to implement actually for these developers, because most games are developed with game engines which have native VR support. Basically you just need to adept how you see the menu's and cut scenes in VR. Luke Ross has an amazing solution for FPS type of games, you aim with your head so basically with your headset combined with a controller. This sounds ridiculous but it's actually more intuitive, you have to experience it to understand it. Cyberpunk for example is truly one of the best VR experiences you can have in these type of open world first person experiences, I would go so far I enjoy Cyberpunk more without 6 dof then Half Alyx with an amazing 6 dof controller experience, because the game is more dynamic and has more replay value and it just works and like you said it's also fun to use old school mechanics and relax. So yeah your argument is spot on not only because you are bald just like me, but because it would indeed help the VR industry and reach it potential faster.

[@briank3754]

You are spot on. I do feel that the Pimax Crystal Light is a no frills headset with a high quality image. I don’t even need pass through, but I think Pimax have done a nice job of making the Crystal Light a pretty focused PCVR headset. Aside from the form factor, I don’t know what else you could do to make it any more of a “Monitor”. I am speaking specifically about the Crystal Light and not the Crystal Super or OG Crystal which are feature rich and expensive. The Big Screen Beyond is even more of a monitor and small and comfortable one. The BSB is innovative and I am looking forward to the second generation of the BSB. The lenses were the show stopper for me in flight sim, but I may get one as a second headset to replace the Quest. For me at least, we need 6DOF so some tracking will always be required. Without head tracking VR would be a nausea fest. I like inside out, but lighthouses aren’t the worst thing.

[@supercededman]

Plug n Play: Its called the Sony VR2, on console (not the PC version, as that's not plug n play). People bag it, but I can get it up and running perfectly within 30 seconds. No doubt the PC brigade will call BS on this. I really could not care less.

[@markm7708]

This

[@HaasSpitta]

PSVR2 on PC is very simple process with the adapter, it’s been working phenomenally for me

[@M-A-F]

VR + SFX100 + Motion Compensation = Awesome But you pretty much need a degree in computer science to make it all come together! Currently the best VR experience isn't plug and play, to a degree it is, but you wont get the best experience if you don't tinker and mess around with things. A lot of people don't want to do that and give up too soon. The technology is advancing, the hardware required to get a decent, useable resolution from hi-res headsets is becoming more affordable. But it's still not there yet. I've been a very early adopter of VR, and I am very hopeful for the future of the VR world. Especially when it comes to sim racing. Here's the thing, nothing worth having comes easy.

[@guidofoc7057]

The cheaper they become, the smaller they become, the less needy for computing power they become, the more wireless they become, the easier to set up they become, the more popular they become. At the moment they're still expensive (the headset + the PC able to run the games) and uncomfortable, plus the added value for some games is not game-changing. I have an old headset at home which i never bother to use for sim racing because a big display is more comfortable and doesn't need any additional setup, despite of course being "flat". But some day we'll get to the point where you just wear them like a pair of glasses and off you go on your simulator.

[@socks2441]

the more wireless they become the more expensive, heavy they become. the more compression artifacts they have, the more connection issues they have. removing the processing and battery saves a lot of expense and weight. im not saying we should not have wireless vr, but i think we should always have the option for a cheaper, lighter wired pcvr only headset.

[@Sk1ds87]

Since I have my old Oculus Rift, I don't use anything else anymore for simracing. Immersion >>>> convenience in my humble opinion.

[@toututu2993]

I don't think you know how vr works. VR required much more power than laptop because is a complex machine that have many function beyond any home tech ever made.

[@mark_lhr3]

That is simply not correct. They might become easier and more portable but would be useless for VR sim racing. We are a long way from super powerful chips being small enough.

[@sprocket5526]

And thats why I have a hard time seeing Pimax getting anywere in the consumer marked. Way too clunky and pricy for normies. Its a prosumer/commercial product. MeganeX is still WAY to pricy, but they got the formfactor nailed IMO.

[@Hellknight27]

Sounds like you want the upcoming Visor glasses James.

[@savvazaicev]

Yeah, VR terminology is not ideal, but it's also about feel of presence, not just like looking at a 3d monitor.

[@soundscaperecordings1111]

Exactly

[@dathyr1]

Well monitors you are stuck in one place and have to sit in front of them all the time and have no freedom of movement. Depending on the games, VR we can move around in many action and sports games. Yes, there are flight and Racing SIMS which we all are sitting down, but the immersion of looking like we are actually sitting in a drivers seat or cockpit is amazing and to look around 360 degree views. The added VR accessories really don't take away from the VR experience. Matter of fact, allot of them make the games more exciting to play. Maybe monitors give us higher resolutions, but I will still always use my VR headset, at least for gaming. Thanks for your video.

[@justinjas29]

One of the first use cases after trying all the VR games of the day on my Valve Index was just loading up Rocket League using VorpX and having a giant 3D TV while playing with a controller on the couch. It was great still a little fiddly because like you said headsets are fiddly but was a lot of fun. These days I use my XReal glasses over moonlight and can even get the same 3D effect if the game has a 3D mod for it. Better form factor and seems more like the VR TV Display you are describing.

[@jpawhees]

I think the looking glass lightfield hologram displays may be a better option. Its basically a glasses free 3D TV but its rendered with multiple camera angles so you can move around and it stays 3D. Its literally like looking through a window into the game world. Plus it doesn't need eyetracking so anyone can view it. Just needs the software mods to work with games.

[@slaphead90]

I think one of the major hurdles with VR is that VR needs to be considered right from the beginning of a games development, not just bolted on at the end. Also it can be difficult to balance the experience across both flat screen and VR as the interactions can be very different. From the list you've provided I think most general games should be aiming for the VRBasic tier, in fact most if not all driving sims that support VR are already in this category - You use controllers (Wheel, pedals, shifter, handbrake) and don't really need to interact with anything else for the most part. Likewise with Elite Dangerous in VR you can map and do everything from your HOTAS or gamepad. VRStandard is, I think, were most of the frustrations come with VR. Take DCS for example, although this could apply to most flight sims TBH. You've got your HOTAS or yoke and quadrant set up and everything is fine until you need to interact with some other function in the cockpit. Now you've got to fumble for your mouse, VR controller, or, god forbid, keyboard to activate that switch. Sure you can operate everything using the VR controllers but the games typically haven't been designed with this in mind and it becomes a sub optimal experience. VROnly - If were talking about flight sims specifically then there's one that absolutely nails it. It integrates the VR controllers so well that you actually forget you're using them. Every single cockpit interaction from the joystick and throttle to the switch gear, MFDs etc just feels complete natural. The game is called VTOL VR in case you haven't tried it. In fact I believe this game should be required to be played by anybody thinking of developing a pure VR game regardless of genre. So in my mind a VR game has to be purely gamepad/game controller playable, or it needs to have full VR controller integration. If you try to mix the two, which if I'm reading right would be your VRStandard, then in my opinion the experience starts falling apart.

[@simonjohnade]

Have you seen the Meta Quest HDMI Link app? 😊 It's description says: Connect your Meta Quest headset to devices with an HDMI or DisplayPort output, including handheld PCs or consoles, laptops, and more.

[@HellSpawnRulerOfHell]

Damn, all these creators suddenly secretly pushing the idea of DeckARD. :p

[@michahund4879]

i just cant race in pancake mode anymore. its vr only for me.

[@gomezthechimp1116]

How do you get around not being able to see your wheel/button box/keyboard? That's the biggest barrier to me using it.

[@Mystipaoniz]

@@gomezthechimp1116 apart from the kb and chatting with people, that is annoying. But on Assetto Corsa, people don't speak. Except to complain or be annoying. So it's a "non-problem". As for the wheel, you know where everything is, you don't need to see. I don't have a button box, but it's the same principle as the wheel. You know where everything is, you don't need to see.

[@RobFisherUK]

​@@gomezthechimp1116I just learn where stuff is and use muscle memory. Being able to touch-type helps, too! And you can peek under the headset a bit.

[@michahund4879]

@@gomezthechimp1116 mostly muscle memory mate

[@mattlant]

I got triple monitors just to avoid all the hassle of VR when I just want to jump into the rig and drive for a bit. Even now VR is still a lot of tweaking, customizing, optimizing, loading this tool and that tool, creating this profile and that profile... never ends. I love VR, I hate the hassle.

[@RobFisherUK]

I got VR to avoid the hassle of triple monitors! (Mainly space limitations)

[@dazecm]

Got to agree because there's not much requirement for your head to be on a 360-degree swivel while racing, The real FOV requirement for a great experience is satisfied by a triple monitor rig.

[@Coxy-b34]

@@dazecm That's fine if you're not too bothered about immersion and happy to playing on the outside looking in.

[@caaarlos]

I totally agree with James here and many sim racers shy away from VR precisely for this reason, another extra complication of steps to deal with between hoping in and racing. I can swap away monitors at a whim if it's same aspect ratio, resolution and refresh it's really like nothing has changed, but even if the monitor changes a bit those settings aren't gonna be the end of the world. Now regarding VR there are a lot more things to worry about that for a seamless experience shouldn't be there unless unavoidable.

[@mondomotori9215]

I agree with you. I am 100% certain that the manufacturers are working hard to have something as plug and play as possible, in fact, absurdly, I wouldn't be surprised to see the first prototypes of alternative VR implemented in glasses in the near future, VR as we know it now it's just a short passage which for reasons you also described in the video cannot become something within everyone's reach. Too many cons currently, that's how it is and this is coming from someone who appreciates this technology.

[@kuroshine]

I think I get what you're trying to describe. The issues as I see it. From a game development standpoint a lot of movement and operation in a lotnof games is based on certain fixed elements of screen space and moving that frame. VR offers degrees of motion unaccounted for in most games. Related, butndifferent, in older vr experiences that did more dramatically detach the player from control of their positioning as you would using thumb stick or M+k controls with limited head camera control it can more drastically induce motion sickness. Driving and flying escape this by being activities that are already done sitting so it's silencing the inner ear motion sensento avoid the discomfort, but more core movements are harder to trick yourself out of

[@HaasSpitta]

This is actually a great take. You should be able to have the ability to play your games sitting down with an Xbox/ps5 controller and just throw the headset on your head. A lot of people play Cyberpunk in VR this way

[@texnorthman]

I totally agree with this. I just want a high quality headset with great tracking, and I want as many first person games a possible to be able to be played with a mouse and keyboard while wearing that headset. Surely someone can come up with a control scheme that doesn't lead to instant motion sickness where the aim point is controlled via the mouse, movement is via keyboard, yet head movement is via the headset?

[@cirrus820]

Agree, It's a pain. I literally have a batch file killing/monitoring/starting apps to just launch my game in VR. It even includes powercycling the headset. It's insane, but it's all I use for gaming. I hate the insideout tracking btw. The basestations work far more reliable, but I get the point to not have them. Also the need for highend hardware to support it is insane. When I bought my G2, there was no hardware fast enough to run it properly.

[@jamesharvy6552]

This is actually the best take I’ve heard on VR. I use the quest 3 for only sim racing. Most people i know with VR either don’t use it anymore or only use it for sim racing application. I dont care about 90% of the product.. plug into pc, have onboard processing for extremely high resolution. Done.

[@GamerMuscleVideos]

Most people are kids playing gorilla tag which does use full motion but us old gifts with tea brains we just want to play our 90s games in peace 😂😆😅

[@Lipe82Official]

I am 100% supportin your idea VR just as a monitor, plug in sit down and start (driving, flying, gaming ...).

[@detleffegers3780]

HOLY MOLY, I fully agree. The fact that the computer mouse is not working in VR (or Steam VR) says it all. Fair comment!

[@brin57]

100 % spot on. For VR to succeed and hit the mainstream, it needs to get over/past the idea of 'VR' specific. It's not about the special VR effects and the physical immersion. Just put us in the 3D environment of any game. The mods show that it can be done. WMR showed that it doesn't have to be complicated or expensive. I have always hated VR controllers and also as a paraplegic, I just want to sit and use a keyboard and mouse or xbox controller and play.

[@kevin-l7r7p]

I ask myself if a VR headset existed that was as simple/easy/lightweight as putting on a pair of sunglasses would I use it for simracing over a monitor...for me no. I want to see my actual hands, steering wheel, keyboard, mouse...can of coke (beer)...kebab etc. I find it more interesting for non-sim or at least stuff that you wouldn't be able to definitely visualise through experience. Ya know I've driven x100k miles IRL seen enough racing so seeing the net result isn't that impressive where as scifi like Alyx or earth orbit stuff etc is pretty cool...until you get used to it then it goes back in the cupboard!

[@GamerMuscleVideos]

I think the pass through AR stuff even with a VR headset somewhat solves this issue. But yah some people enjoy the fact it's there simulator and seeing it , the enjoyment of the simulator itself rather than necessarily trying to directly get to what is actually simulated as directly possible. Kinda like how a model trainset is enjoyable in and of itself sure it's a representation of real trains but the representation itself is enjoyable.

[@UKTunedIn]

Listennnnn!.. when I first got the rift CV1 in 2018 and plugged it all in (no instructions mode😅).. the first thing I looked for was new monitor input... I just assumed you could also use it as primary monitor without any extra software needed.. just like a monitor.. I always saw the DK 1 and 2 online and I assumed that was how it was done... So I yeah. I agree.

[@Leynad778]

Fully agree and I'm proclaiming that since years now. The first VR-years it was even difficult to find games that didn't mandate room-scale VR while there are two sorts of people: The ones that are staying a lot during their job and don't want to do it after and the ones, that are sitting the hole day and also want to game while sitting. The monitor-thing is getting rather more obvious with the higher resolution headsets and the AVP shows how it should work. You look at your Mac, pinch and the Mac-display goes off while you have your screen(s) in MR. SteamVR is IMO a huge VR-brake rather than an accelerator. With my ex-8KX I had no controllers and took me weeks to figure out how to access the desktop without using them. Actually you still need a controller, but it can be mapped to an Xbox-controller if you know how, so SteamVR doesn't even offer a normal keyboard-shortcut for it. And I also hate to be in VR while my huge monitor is running, because when I turn if off, there is no desktop-mode anymore because there is no monitor. What a pathetic joke VR still is in 2025.

[@handsomejustin]

I totally agree, you basically turn all games into VR view with your VR headset like in UEVR and makes it an addition to your regular 3D gaming. That completely enhances the experience because ALL IT TAKES is to buy a $300-$1000 VR headset and immerse in your game without any hassle. They just need to properly make DLSS/Frame Gen, eye tracking and the UEVR set up more streamlined and optimized, then you've got yourself into the future and head all consumer products into that direction. Another way VR would work is those MR glasses, but also has a VR function. So in the future people wear MR glasses rather than staring at their phones and VR headsets for work, gaming on their couch or desk when they're inside.

[@easybreeze1]

Yeah you're spot on, a head mounted 3d monitor. I don't want to be in the game, just have a 3d view of the game. To get to what you say requires a lot of hoops to get through. Also with VRR!!!

[@PistonBrokeGaming]

THIS is what I want for 'No mans sky' in VR, as having to use the hand controllers is a nightmare.

[@JM-oq1cz]

This is how I treat my vr headset with Iracing. Register, join, sit in my rig, put on my head set and race. Using voice commands with and app like DRE ia game chager. No need to fumble with mouse or keyboard or even wheel buttons. I do agree it takes a bit of an effort to setup. But once its setup ita usually good to go.

[@gomezthechimp1116]

I agree. I own a headset but rarely use it. Various reasons, but at least partly for the reason you give.

[@LeeSurber]

I completely agree..!! I use the quest 3 with a halo strap just so I can remove the face interface for air movement..!! It's perfect for me because I can glance off screen as see my keyboard, mouse, etc..!! I would love to see fps games allow VR with keyboard and mouse controls vs the VR controls..!!

[@labpong7562]

I totally get it, I also want simple plug and play with my VR headsets that acts as a normal monitor does. That is the blockade now, making that switch from monitors to VR when using your PC. The settings you have to change/start up and possible physical wire input changes all add up to one of the biggest pia's in using VR now. So yea, I want a good VR headset I can just plug in (if not at the time) maybe hit one button, and it's configured to use instantly like it was a monitor.

[@marenjones6665]

Steam Link works on Quest, letting you stream your flat games to your headset. It's pretty great. I hope they can integrate depth rendering for games that support the old 3d tv protocols. On a completely different note, I've used Vorpyx and UEVR to play Mass Effect and Cyberpunk, and that's a blast too.

[@LeoDavidson]

There are a few companies already making AR glasses (much less bulk than headsets) that are like a huge virtual TV, and just take an HDMI connection from whatever you want to display on them. That sounds like what you're after. As for actual VR, when going for immersion in a virtual world, it's about time they started improving the FOV of these things. It has barely improved since the Vive came out, and most devices actually have lower FOV (in both directions) than the ancient Vive. All the focus has been on resolution and standalone VR, when FOV is the biggest downside IMO and getting no real attention.

[@RalstigRacing]

The hardware to drive a a higher FoV doesn’t exist. Even a 4090 can struggle to push enough pixels for the resolution of current headsets.

[@LeoDavidson]

@@RalstigRacing Foveated rendering can help there, but the industry keeps dragging its feet instead of making it standard and normal. But I am not sure I agree, either. Most VR games are designed to run on mobile chipsets these days, while people are using high-end PC GPUs to run triple 4K in much more demanding sims and similar refresh rate. PC VR could totally support higher FOVs if anyone actually tried.

[@brin57]

I never understood the FOV argument. I've never felt the lack of greater FOV, as I just turn my head and can see everything. It's VR, you have head tracking. Just turn your head !!!

[@ceconevis1380]

Rift S works just like a monitor , but having the 90's games on VR is something else.

[@employeeofthemonth1]

I agree 100% but unfortunately monitors are a "commodity" and that is not what VR companies want to sell. They want to sell a store ecosystem blabla.

[@GamerMuscleVideos]

@@employeeofthemonth1 Yep I think the appeal of VR companies is to try and leverage the paradime as a "platform" like mobile phones and the wall garden people into buying stuff or getting data from them.

[@BMRace]

Agree. I play a lot of regular PS5 games using my PSVR2 using it as a monitor, so I can have a massive floating screen to play on instead of the small one on my desk.

[@Hairy_Lee]

Totally agree, a simpler experience for setting up and "just using the headset" without jumping through hoops to make it work would be great. The number of times I've tried to launch a game in VR, whether it be a Racing Sim, Flight Sim or something like Skyrim VR on my Quest 2, and the Meta (or Oculus) App has just trampled all over it and turned into a wierd mess without any rhyme or reason as to why it didn't work properly is truly frustrating. It doesn't need to be as complex as it is. Standalone is cool for those that want it but side-stepping all the other stuff would be nice too. Also, I understand some people's misgivings about Meta VR as a choice but I didn't want to harvest my own organs to pay for other options out there

[@elton857]

I get you. I would love to play Spiderman in VR, but I wouldn't want my eyes to be Spiderman's eyes. Same goes for Sonic, Metroid, Castlevania and more 2.5D games.

[@Windystig]

100% agree. I love VR for the immersion and wish i played more, but the reason i don't is because, even with ones that are most reliable in terms of 'just working' there is always a degree of hassle. There is always a setting somewhere that buggers it up and you have to troubleshoot for an hour. I used to use the Quest 3 for PCVR but it became such a headache everytime i turned it on i stopped. Then got the pimax crystal light and it is as close to plug and play as you can get but still has it's niggles, like yestrday it was getting 40fps on Flight sim, but today it's getting 20 and you have no idea why. stuff like that! (FYI for no reason whatsoever, the runtime in the pimax settings had switched to Virtual Desktop... on a wired pimax headset! Why? no idea, but it did!) The other issue you aluded to is expectation. People bang on about total immersion, which i think puts devs off even trying because it would be difficult and expensive. But if major titles had a VR option that was simply a head mounted display that provided that 3D depth of field, but still used standard keyboard/mouse or joypad, you would see a bigger take up of users. The industry is trying to run to keep up with what they think we want, when actually a nice walk to a more varied batch of VR experiences would be far better overall.

[@stuartjohnston7364]

You said 90s games in vr & thought of Torok...the dinosaur game...terrified me enough back then😂 But I'm totally with you.plug & play vr would be massive

[@veravink]

Hi James, you are absolutely right. I have had different headsets for years and use the oculus platform for all my racing sims. it's incredibly cool to race in 3D.

[@drevil1988]

isnt that the whole point of the leaks around the valve deckard. Like the deckard-controllers getting normal controller layout like a xbox controller. i think the comlicated part is to write a programm like proton does for windows games to be played on linux, so that every game would automatically get a vr vision so u can feel the depth of the game. and of course that everthing would work out of the box... but yeah, not a lot of people want to exercise after work

[@abeidiot]

Its kind of amazing how much my opinions are the opposite of gamermuscle in so many topics. Atleast we share the common love for tea

[@dazecm]

Is he not a Sheffield lad? Being contrarian is in their DNA 😉

[@motelghost477]

I used to have a Vive headset, the light boxes were a fucking nightmare. Now I have a Pimax with inside-out tracking and it's a joy to not use light boxes.

[@lovingmybaby9530]

My lighthouses are 7+ years old and working fine. TO be honest, I mostly simrace and fly via VTOL so i normally use only one front facing light house. These I swap every three months so each lighthouse gets the same usage and they are still running strong with never a problem

[@dazecm]

My first VR headset was a Quest 2 and I really was not impressed with the image quality due to the cheap-as chips Frensel lenses. The Quest 3 fixed that with a composite, multi-element lens 'pancake' but even then, I was thinking "Composite lens technology has been around for decades for SLR cameras. This should have been used in all VR headsets from the start instead and Fresnel lenses should not have even been a thing."

[@bullit199]

3:00 Can confirm sit down VR with mouse/keyboard is awesome as Cyberpunk 2077 with Luke Ross REAL VR mod is amazing. Did a whole play through that way. Seated VR is cool and something the industry completely ignores.

[@julianmazzola]

you sir, have an iron stomach for enduring a full playthrough like that. I've been in VR since 2016 and I can't handle playing the mod with mouse, my brain feels like it's melting. Gamepad is quite an experience, though

[@no1computerrepairguy]

I can't play iRacing outside VR - had the whole 3 monitor setup etc. Got a VR headset and never went back. If iRacing was designed from the ground up for VR I'd imagine it would be 10x better, but as it is, with details lowered etc for frame rate 90Hz - it's amazing. Played hundreds of hours of Elite Dangrous in VR, until they bollocksed it.

[@Brundlesim]

Had two (rift s and quest 3) and frankly…couldn’t be arsed with the whole setup shenanigans. It’s fun once it’s working, but by the time you’ve set it up. The hunger for racing is gone. A VR session is just that…setting up so it works okay…and then once that’s done…time to switch it off.

[@grisch4329]

Isn't this exactly what AR glasses like the Xreal Air and Viture Pro do? I have coworkers who use them as extra screens for work, connect them to their steamdeck/Nintendo switch to play games on a huge virtual monitor. They just connect through a regular HDMI port. No motion tracking, no charging.

[@Ownko]

This really should be a thing. I really only currently play two flatscreen games: Zenless Zone Zero and Street Fighter 6, and I wish I could play them in VR (I know SF6 is playable with a mod but it isn't perfect and adds input lag), and I don't need those games to be in first person with motion controls, just the true-to-life scale and depth and being able to look around with my head would make those games better than playing them on a monitor. Without VR I would never have played Hellblade 1, and that's just a third person game where you follow behind Senua, Hellblade 2 is out and I'm not interested in playing it until they release a VR edition like with the first one.

[@Propeler3D]

I totally agree. I was thinking about it for ages.

[@jerrylindgren7828]

This would all be far too consumer friendly for Big Tech. If VR was more like a monitor, they wouldn't be able to implement their app store and subscription services to generate additional revenue.

[@davidvanwyk5954]

bring on more t1 rammers it'll be fun to start from the back and watch it unfold

[@POOKISTAN]

I'm not entirely sure if this is what he had in mind, but I'm an avid VR enthusiast and these are my thoughts: Firstly, although it is always cool when games go all-in on 'VR integration' where your physical hands within the game world do everything, there's nothing wrong with a game in VR playing like a game, with a controller, or keyboard/mouse. My second throught is that I am okay with, and think it should become more normalized, to have games where you just mostly face forward and stuff behind where you are facing is not rendered, like in traditional games - I think that's what he's getting at. I heard they had Monster Hunter Rise playable in VR within weeks of it coming out thanks to it being in the REngine that RE7 was in - God does that sound awesome! And, I have no doubt that if you look over your shoulder stuff is going to look weird (like not rendered-in entirely), but the main thing is this: If that is the only way I can play something like that in VR because the devs don't want to rework the code to render everything around the player at all times, then so-be-it! If I could play House of The Dead 2 in VR only if I have to face forward and when I look over my shoulder there's just a reminder to face forward, that is a better alternative than not being able to play it in VR at all - That's what it comes down to! I think that second part is what he was trying to get at, and I agree completely - We are absolutely missing out on a ton of amazing remakes and ports because devs are too afraid to tell VR players to face forward during gameplay. Games like Quill show how amazing diorama games can be, and that is largely a 'face forward' game. There's plenty of modern games that I'd be fine doing that with if that was the only way to get a VR version.

[@GamerMuscleVideos]

Yep was playing quill at Christmas and honestly it's such a nice game to play so much better than so much other more complex and "proper" VR titles. And that's with quill being a bit simple in many ways compared to historical 3D platformers and the game design and puzzles being a bit dated. What's funny is the hand controller aspects of quill actually make the game flow worse and again feel like a chore and don't bring you closer to the game most the time they happen.

[@juliangrey8751]

It's not a case that "the devs don't want to rework the code to render everything around the player at all times", it's a mandatory practice to remove all objects that aren't visible from the render process, in order for the game to run at an acceptable framerate. What you are asking is for tens of millions of pixels to be computed and "displayed" more than 60 times per second every second, regardless of where the player is looking, and that is just not feasible because not only would the GPU and CPU be getting overworked, the amount of data that would need to be continuously streamed would eventually overload the computer's memory. Just think about it, we have a processes to reduce the visual quality of objects INSIDE OUR FIELD OF VIEW, such as level of detail (LoD) as well as the complete temporary removal of objects far away from the viewpoint, in an attempt to keep the performance as high and as stable as possible, so why would there be any interest in dealing with objects that will potentially never be looked at? It's quite clear that you don't understand much about the design and development of video games, so research how games are made before effectively calling game developers lazy because they "don't want to" do something that has been a standardised part of game development for more than 30 years.

[@simracingjunky9679]

I have a feeling that Valve could be the one to bring us both VR games and 3d enhance flat screen games in one headset. Unfortunately the headset will probably be the same weight as Quest 3.

[@RonniePeterson]

Only use VR for racing sims/games. I don't think I have ever used the handsets that came with the headset ever! Sure the headset is cabled (one only) but wireless is nor far away for those who want it. The headset works just like a monitor (which requires at least two if not more cables. No mods required at all. For those who want to play VR games standing up and/or with controllers the way you suggest, maybe they should go and watch old episodes of Star Trek and its holodeck while they are waiting!

[@b.s.7693]

Not sure what the actual statement is, but where I kind of agree is we need more standardization in VR. It's a pain in the ass, that devs still have to handle tons of different controllers, tracking systems and APIs ...

[@lawyer4ever]

Aren’t you describing Virtual Desktop, which I use everyday with my Quest 3? No wires needed.

[@RyanHellyer]

I'm just at the start of the video, but I suspect the biggest improvement to VR in sim-racing, would be if it just became a standard thing that all games required by default. As it stands, games are generally released, then VR is lopped on as an afterthought later; that's not great IMO. Games need to be built with VR in mind from the get-go, not thwacked on as an obscure add-on later.

[@oleskool6259]

I love vr but what keeps me from using it or even buying a better setup is the almost constant tweaking an adjusting everything every time I use it. plus the debugging an other tools I have to use. It’s one of the few things you gotta make better after it’s paid for. I pretty much dread it. You’d think for that price you could just plug in and go.

[@OkiDingo]

I agree. I love VR for iRacing and DCS, but wish I could just sit down and put it on and play……instead of mucking around.

[@TheJero1982]

Being more immersed is fun. I played alien isolation with a mod in VR with keyboard and mouse. It really was not as immersive like for example half life Alyx standing up with controllers. I get your point, it could be an option, but would you rather play half life Alyx with keyboard and mouse?

[@flatscreenstevie124]

Totally agree. If we could play any game in vr with a keyboard/mouse/controller, it would be a lot more popular. Is it because it takes a lot of pc horsepower to run them. Love your vids.

[@dazecm]

As a display for a game running on a PC, a VR headset is great. Having the game running on VR headset hardware is not so great because they have such lower performance and battery life tends to suck.

[@sethmoreadith6619]

I totally agree, right now they're being treated more like tablets rather than a standalone laptop or a monitor.

[@maxlvl01]

its such a shame that only AC1 really implements Hand Tracking. like i would love it in Blade And Sorcery,

[@ic2433]

Complete agree. Most of the time I can’t be bothered with the hassle of the VR headset and everything that comes with it. Just needs to be pickup and play.

[@kangjames2492]

Imagine playing Madden or NBA 2K.Where you can see the full characters in 3d vr. Awesome!!!

[@GamerMuscleVideos]

You can see how good this is with things like dolphin emulator , can play a ton of GameCube games in full 3D and look around. NHL hitz basketball and stuff is awesome just looking at the whole court.

[@n0kodoko143]

Couldn't agree more. The novelty of the extra controllers to make VR more than a screen, while great in theory, slows the process. The peripherals should be in the latter part of VR adoption after VR is more widely accepted because they are in a better state compared to a pancake monitor.

[@Senshikaji]

Yes. VR should just work for everything like it does in AC, ACC & GT7 (I've played these) you can play with wheel & pedals and either displayed on a flat screen, or triple screens or VR headset. The depth info is there in the game even a board game like Chess or Monopoly, so why can't I just plug my VR headset in and have a 3D display with head movement automatically mapped to look around keys? And what is so hard about displaying a 3D Blu-ray in a VR headset?

[@maxlvl01]

The 3D blu ray is already possible i think

[@Senshikaji]

@@maxlvl01 Yes it is, but.... If you can find an app (program) which just reads the Blu-ray and displays 3D in VR headset please tell me where.... PowerDVD used to do it but now doesn't and too many others just go "rip your disc to this and then convert with this app and then play it with any app" Oh, has to be Steam or PS5

[@decapnz]

GM, i think you make a very good point. particularly regarding using the headsets in other games like cs or arma. you know, i actually bought a quest 3 a few months back based on your review in '23. i abandoned it after 2 weeks and went back to my G2. way too much mucking about.. and the picture quality isn't that flash either - imo.

[@s4091boat]

Games like HL or Resident Evil are on another level with motion controllers. Only type of game better with keyboard and mouse are RTS and racing games. Monitors/TV are always going to be better at what they do. Better frame rate, better brightness, and HDR and easier to run too. But for the market standpoint I agree that there are no excuses why games are not offering stereoscopic out of the box support for VR with mouse and keyboard. Even basic motion controllers should be expected especially when there is open source UEVR mod.

[@chrisc3825]

GT7 with a controller felt a bit like this and it was pretty cool

[@brianwhitley]

I agree with you on the VR thing, I've always seen VR as mostly playing Mobile/ Cellphone type games. I think if more AAA game dev's would get involved we would see a much before VR experience. I had the G3 and wasn't thrilled with it at all for iRacing the graphic rez and quality wasn't there for me frame rates the picture was weird like in iRacing the guard rails on the tracks had these squiggly lines coming off the rails.Thats with the link cable also. I too was hoping for monitor quality from the Headset without having to give a arm and a leg or two for it. Pimax looks good alone with a couple more but wow they are proud of them smh

[@joshhardin666]

I agree. Sometimes I just want to chill with whatever Pinot device (controller, hotas, racing wheel, keyboard and mouse and get the same immersion I get out of vr. There ARE experience designed like that, such as elite dangerous, big screen beta,, but they are few and far between. I like motion tracked games as well, but it would be nice if there's were more laid back mode built into pancake games to ubiquitously enhance immersion if you have a VR headset available.

[@jmizzonini]

100% - I’m a simmer mostly flight but racing too - so all I want is a wide FOV and good resolution. Give zero fk about the gimmicky controllers or what else comes w the headset. I had the rift cv1 and then put VR away for years. Recently got a Pimax crystal light and it’s a much better experience. All we need now is a leap in a way to provide a truly wide FOV and it will really elevate the visual side of it, because the resolution is basically already there

[@HlspwnsWorld]

I’m onboard GM. But there is a big caveat here. Unless you spend an insane amount of cash to build that VR headset, it does not currently exist. I’ve got a HP Reverb G2. Which is a 4K headset. With my current GPU I’d say the actual visual quality of the VR screen is nearer to a 1080p monitor. I’d like to watch movies in VR. But compared to my LG Oled with HDR , VR is crap. Big screen sizes in VR are cool, but again the screen quality is appalling compared to my oled TV. Then there’s the eye strain, I fly flight sim. Especially at night even in my G2, the clarity of instruments are not there. In sim racing, looking as far ahead as possible really helps. But the draw distance in VR needs to massively improve still. Screen technology in VR has to massively improve to do what you’re thinking. Unless you want to look like an undead junkie by the end of the week.

[@robisnowart]

perfect take

[@Gr00t]

I absolutely hate how much i have to use the controllers on the Q3 coming from a G2. Also the lack of DP bothers me way more than i expected it to. Q3 is so good and so shit at the same time. Really hope we get the perfect sim hmd in the next few years.

[@A-man-yf6pr]

I understand man. Your right this would be a game changer