Games Workshop changing the game in a big way? | Warhammer the Old World | Square Based Show

[@SamuraiMujuru]

Highlands Miniatures is proof that you can modernize models and sculpts while still perfectly nailing that Oldhammer charm.

[@SquareBasedOldWorld]

100% agree

[@millburray6676]

Their Not Empire stuff has been temptng me, and Im a Chaos Warriors fan

[@porcu12345]

Ehhh they're hit or miss imo. Their Orc models are pretty bad, especially compared to their Dwarves which look insanely good.

[@Mercenary0712]

​@@porcu12345 For Orcs, I love Avatars of War Orcs, their Boss on a Wyvern is amazing

[@lestrike2707]

Yes! I would not mind if tow would receive units that have never existed before. Maybe even fantasy up Bretonnia a little. There‘s a pletora of lore reasons why those units weren‘t around later.

[@ginjasteve4435]

Good to see you got Ted Lasso on as a guest! Love the tash Val!

[@RolandoRatas]

You're mistaken, that's Howard Hughes whose recently been unfrozen so he can focus on aviation and making movies again.

[@jimart3230]

Full disclosure on 3D printing. Standard respirators wont form a seal unless you're clean shaven (e.g. within 24 hours). The chemicals aren't that scary but ventilation wise it's worth being aware off (especially if you have a print farm making goblins)

[@SquareBasedOldWorld]

They're like the tiny, resin-coated hobbits of the world

[@JeffSichoe]

@@SquareBasedOldWorld but inside your lungs giving you hairy foot'd cancer heehee :)

[@GilthosDrakoniss]

33% total for characters is better than no more than 25% on any one character. It allows you to make hard choices between super powerful, combat, lords and giving up wizards or not.

[@oitoitoi1]

Totally agree. Remove 360 arc from non infantry skirmishers too and the game is massively improved with just 2 fairly easy fixes.

[@GilthosDrakoniss]

@@oitoitoi1excellent

[@jean-danieltrottier5147]

Maybe we can comeback to a single Lord level hero per 2000pts?

[@ThePaintedHope]

For the general gamestate I love it. As an Ogre player however, this is getting kicked while you're down.

[@assistantref5084]

Yeah, or 25% for lords and 25% for heroes.

[@AnthonyPaoliMasakiSays]

As far as "what we would like more of," sign me up for more lore videos. The "don't take this too seriously, it's just a game" energy you guys brought to the last one was 11/10, totally my jam.

[@Pophet84]

the restrictions are not really changing anything. but as they sayd, they are atleast on the right way. the regulation is just not agressive enough and should have been something like 20% per charcter and total wizz lvl of 4 per 1k points. but most important, my personal solution is somethig i really wanna see. dragons and chariots used by characters should also use up the points from their "natural" unit regulation. a dragon for example that costs 300 points in characters, should ALSO use up 300 points in rare. still costing 300 in total of course, but it should use up the point restrictions in both categorys. and the same goes for chariots for example in special or any other mount options.

[@_Matthew_117]

It's interesting seeing the difference between Old World and Horus Heresy. Admittedly I'm on the outside looking in but I've seen Horus Heresy players complaining about balance, such as dreadnaughts being strong, people treating units as chaff to tank a stand and shoot reaction before the true assault units go in to combat (surely that is against the spirit/ intent of the game?) and nothing really being done over the last 2+ years. Whereas the Old World team are at least attempting to make changes without essentially discarding the books that have already been released and purchased

[@frostedbutts4340]

>people treating units as chaff to tank a stand and shoot reaction before the true assault units go in to combat (surely that is against the spirit/ intent of the game?) That.. sounds very historically accurate and like good strategy in game lmao. Not seeing the problem at all.

[@Orcimedes]

Honestly I think Horus Heresy has it pretty good. The rules stability of HH and (thus far) TOW is much more suited to them than the relentless drumbeat of changes 40k and AoS get submitted to. Their rate of change is a huge barrier to entry and retention - if you don't have a lot of hobby time you just _can't_ keep up, which is even more true for HH and TOW where model counts are higher. Tinkering tournament things for the tournament people is fine, but the normal game - both rules and points/listbuilding - being stable is a key part for the huge swath of hobbyists who take a year or more to put together an army because it greatly effects whether they can have a playable army _at all_. And if the rate of change starts preventing people from being able to participate in narrative play or casual-ish play (organised or not), the whole thing becomes self-consuming.

[@_Matthew_117]

@@OrcimedesThat's fair. My main interaction with HH has been by browsing forums and KZbin and those were a few points that came up. Do you play? I would like to get in HH and TOW at some point as HH feels more old school where you can actually customise your units and characters. I have the Age of Darkness box but haven't taken a crack at it yet, I need to move house so I can have a dedicated hobby room instead of cluttering up the kitchen table. Since I've been back in the hobby, I've looked into GW games for the first time since the mid 2000s and I really didn't like what I saw with the direction 40k was taking and AoS was news to me at the time. A friend got me back into the hobby a few years ago with Infinity and the free rules and army builder app have been great and easy to keep up with as it's mainly been FAQs that have been released. The hobby time aspect is completely true, I have 4 Infinity armies painted but more factions in the backlog as I would like to try each one out. Despite being only 10 - 20 models per army that I have it has been hard for me to find the time to get them done over the last few years what with going back to uni as a mature student and working full time.

[@Orcimedes]

@@_Matthew_117 In the odd years in between me getting back into the hobby and TOW (re)launching I've played HH digitally a few times with a friend, it's mechanically solid and (outside of cheesemongering) the balance is actually pretty good. I tried it because I wanted to play _some_ kind of warhammer where I wouldn't first need to relearn half the rules or more between 2 games nor deal with whatever yu-gi-oh bullshit the factions have going, but I never got into it on the hobby or lore side of Horus Heresy because I don't actually like space marines (I eventually circled back to 6th ed. WHFB). When TOW launched I eventually got into it with the expectation that (like the similar age of darkness books) if I made an army list with the things I wanted to paint I wouldn't have an illegal army halfway through painting it due to rules changes. 40k and AoS fundamentally just don't respect my time in that regard.

[@ryanwidmer4831]

As a Skaven player forcing a single lvl 4 is pretty rough. It’s one of the few things holding the book together and I don’t see an update coming for that book anytime soon. Would have preferred a limit of 2 lvl 3/4 per 2000 to limit some of the wizard spamming armies such as O&G and empire. Or something like a general % on a character limit. As it stands the wizard spam armies such as WE can still spam flaming vortex with lvl 2s. The armies with characters that can ride monsters and still have a lvl 4 can still fit in both for their character allotments. Overall still having fun with The Old World and excited for what they come out with.

[@ComandaKronikk]

@@ryanwidmer4831 you can still take a lvl 3 and lvl 4 at 2k, just not 2 lvl 4's, so my advice is just get your lvl 3 absolutely hoovering up the warpstone tokens and letting a ruckus ensue

[@ryanwidmer4831]

@ there are certainly ways around it, and that’s even if it becomes standard practice/official for tournaments. I also don’t want to sound like a complainer as overall I think the game is perfectly balanced for playing casually/ on vibes and am having fun playing casually and even competitively on occasion. There are just certain armies that will gravitate towards the top in a competitive environment and unfortunately I think this would just push the rats further down on that list.

[@ComandaKronikk]

@@ryanwidmer4831 v true bro, as a fellow general of the grandest, most superior army (Skaven) we need all the help we can get, but I think we can both agree this change doesn't F them too badly! Just a little bit hehe

[@ryanbowald2425]

Unfortunately gw only spent like an hour writing the Skaven book. There’s so many units that are pretty much unplayable and so much flavor is missing. Why does a rat ogor only have hand weapons?! That being said, I’m just praying old world 2.0 gets released and they include the legacy armies.

[@ComandaKronikk]

@ I know I couldn't agree more bro, wish they'd give the warp lightning cannon multiple woulds as well! But yes dude I pray also, with the reception its gotten I'd be surprised if they didn't! Hopefully they can resolve whatever beef they're having with AOS as well and just share in the glory. That said 99% of my skaven models are the great new AOS range!

[@Smannyable]

Addicted to the fomo releases... too many releases is what drove me away from 40k and AoS as it became basically a meta chasing purchasing spree in my area, I would not like them to go to that model for tow.

[@schroecat1]

Sadly they will though. The fomo style maximises their profit and minimises required production and warehouse space. It's a cancer on society, but GW has been all in on it for years.

[@dicnar]

Yea. I’m trying to get into 40k and KT but I just can’t keep up with constant changes. To much is to much.

[@CygnusMaximusXIII]

The Mississippi River is 12,355,200 feet long. 72 feet of river is NOTHING!

[@samgibbs8194]

To be fair, no-one had to paint the Mississipi!

[@nurglematthew893]

This is super legit. Thanks for crankong this out. Insert the appropriate amount of Olde Worlde Hype !

[@archaontec6455]

Can we let them finish releasing the game before we strong arm them into ruining it? Still need Empire of Man, High Elf Realms, Beastmen Brayherds and Wood Elf Realms released. Once they do that then you guys make it so my Bretonnian Lord on Royal Pegasus can charge every other character in the game with absolutely no fear of being shredded if he misses rolling that 6 the first round...

[@PRAISE_HASHUT]

I would really like to see some more support for the game more broadly. Give us some White Dwarf lore articles, or the odd scenario or special item card, let’s see some battle reports or some periodical made to orders!!

[@noserenda]

Looking forward to the juggz episode where you are all painting rivers :D

[@NisGaarde]

When in doubt, throw Flagellants at the problem! 😉

[@jean-danieltrottier5147]

I'll think that reduce the total point that can be spend on character is a better way of restriction. 30-35% max should be ok!

[@zergstirfry]

Your videos are always amazing, your deep dUives are especially helpful for list making. And you guys are always entertaining, and I have to say Rob’s my favourite content creator on the internet

[@luis2864]

Love your content guys. You've become a part of my hobby routine. Thansk for the content. I hope I can travell abroad to participate in one of your tournaments one day!

[@lassemunkkryer9469]

the 20% weird because I get the stopping of stacking modiffies, but does eliminate some figures from the game fx. the high elv prince on star dragon no longer exist as he for just a prince and dragon no upgrades is 420

[@SquareBasedOldWorld]

Yeah I don't necessarily think it's a good idea, but if they wanted to nerf big baddies in 2k 20% would have done it. 25% is more symbolic. Less allocation towards characters in general might actually be the better solution as has been suggested

[@Dre0oq]

Oh man, ramped up schedule? So excited! Love listening to you guys while doing chores or painting minis. Very very excited for game coverage or battle reports!

[@adron1261]

speaking on battle reports I have been enjoying fun fast old world , like Dwainiac. really gives a feel for the game, the flow and how dramatic a few dice can be in this game

[@snowsiffsnowsiff3015]

I just really want to see more of an emphasis on troops and big blocks of troops. I still want all the fun mages and artillery and what not, but would love to see the rules be changed enough to incentivize the player to have at least blocks of 20+ troops.

[@MiniatureRealms]

Great to see you back, hoping all the crappy times are behind you.

[@JeffG-n8p]

Love it. You all are like the Sunday papers 🗞️ ! Keep us all informed and we love your passion as well. 🖤

[@RolandoRatas]

Here's a question if we DO get new sculpts for the legends army WHICH of the legends armies will get them first ? Skaven and Vampire Counts has such broad range of miniatures where do you start with 'new sculps' ? and it's a lot of effort given that they have 85% of their minis already in AoS ? it's a strange situation.

[@ComandaKronikk]

@@RolandoRatas yeah skaven in particular seem pretty sorted for excellent minis atm haha

[@frostedbutts4340]

Vampire Counts has AMAZING sculpts for nearly everything in AOS already. It's split across the multiple death factions but they're some of the best models GW have ever done, I bought some Blood Knights and vamps just to paint

[@thomasburns6655]

I like that the format allows GW to tweak army lists and rules through new Arcane Journals rather than completely revamping the game with new editions. They don't need to make massive changes, just adjust to "tournament play (new journal), magical duel (new journal), MSU combat (new journal), etc..

[@markwilson46]

Oncebitten360 and Lord Tremendous are the GOAT battle reports!

[@SquareBasedOldWorld]

THE GOATS AND MISTER MALORIAN

[@treydudley7966]

The only change they needed to make was a rewrite to the army construction rules that distinguishes between Lords and Heroes. 25% max for each, rather than 50% max for both combined like it is now.

[@Husker44g]

Great Video guys,.. Tomb Kings need some attention. I was just building a Tomb king on Bone dragon in a list creator and for funzies added 100 pts to the dragon cost to see what I could make. Even adding 100 pts to that build you can field it with GW's new restiction, Tomb king on bone dragon with Talisman of protection and a biting blade is 400 pts. That's too cheap ! I"m so happy for Tomb King players though as 8th ed was awful to them. We can use some updates for armies for sure for some internal balance as well as game balance. Like you guys, I'm looking forward to the future of the game!

[@steveh.690]

Great video, love this game and believe it does play well. Definitely needs some tweaks. Can't wait to see the Frydaal model!

[@johnb.2107]

Heck yeah, what great news. Been fiending for some more Square Based content.

[@SkiSummer]

I think being a monster heavy edition and not an infantry edition was purposeful. If you think about the hobbie requirements and costs to get into old world, it's the cheapest game system, and it doesn't actually need that many models despite being a rank and flank game. An empire army that's competitive, has like 20 archers, 15 knights and the rest is war machines and characters. There's less physical models in my empire army than in my 40k Space Marine Army. - 40k Requires like £500-1000 to get a 2000 point army on the table. Old world it's like £200. And that's with buying the GW stuff and not the plethora of 3d printed stuff.

[@softlightsymphonyband]

That sounds awful tbh if that’s what the game has become.

[@bennconner1195]

I am hoping GW release a Kiknik model for my nomadic waaagh army.

[@johnb.2107]

I agree with you guys that maybe the 20% restriction wouldn't be terrible. Would hurt some builds that don't seem too egregious, like a Chaos Lord on a chariot, but it would maybe help address double dragons or monster mount spam... however I think that a restriction to monstrous mounts would do a better job of that on top of the 25% restriction.

[@lesbianmorgoth652]

I think if they're going with 25% for a single hero they should also split the profiles again into lords and heroes, with 50% of character limit points for each. That along with the wizard restrictions might cause some more interesting character choices, but i'm no game designer.

[@nkari8971]

Another man of culture.. lets go for a proper mustache Val.. dont do a walter white, do a proper below the lips mustache.. (and yes.. I sport a magnificant beast on my upper lip to.. somehow, after I did grow one a year ago, so many ppl have started doing it.. I mean I could get an ego saying I started the trend.. but.. more likley a stand alone complex.. :P ).. :P

[@SquareBasedOldWorld]

He needs to curl it

[@dakotasykes4926]

If they did 20% of the army cost restriction you couldn't have chars on drags is probably the reason they went 25%. It allows you to take one but you can't soup them up.

[@HallBr3gg]

As long as rebalanced army list are free I am all for it.

[@nonquisquan]

Glad to see you are back! Love your stuff! Any news on last painting Competition? Will there be another?

[@Nazgull2k1]

They're nerfing HeroHammer. GOOD.

[@Vanguar7d]

Maybe someone can help me find an old photo-by-photo battlereporter? He played tomb kings mainly. Think he was ozzy. Every time the Casket of Souls went he would shout "The CASKET of SOOOOOuls!"

[@Zenfoxgames]

Creaky gamers?

[@Zenfoxgames]

Creaky gamers?

[@Vanguar7d]

@@Zenfoxgames I checked and he's fun to watch so I subbed but no, this was pre-2018

[@mrsnakesmrnot8499]

Perhaps a nerf on movement spells could be a limitation on the unit strength that can be affected, so a block of 90 models would be too many to teleport. Thoughts?

[@danlamphear]

I am here for the activated charcoal filter link!

[@SquareBasedOldWorld]

Soon

[@TheJankmaster]

Lord Tremendous and his awesome Ogre army. Those maneaters ❤

[@oneeyedwonderer6781]

Limiting some factions to only 25% on a single character would kill things like dread lords or chaos on dragons . The strongest thing in the lore should be the strongest thing in the game

[@Ultr4l0f]

Hell yeah! Was wondering when the next episode would release! Hyyyyype!

[@Lev-2d6]

Guys we have to talk about IT! That Thing you know Val!?

[@steffennilsen2132]

A naked chaos lord on dragon is 480 pts, 20 shy points to play with at 25%, at 20% you are 80 pts over cant play it at all

[@ryanbowald2425]

All I want is for the legacy factions to be in line with the main armies. Gw clearly put no effort into some of them such as Skaven and Lizardmen.

[@SquareBasedOldWorld]

Lizardmen are close I reckon. Skaven for sure were a first draft that got punished for the sins of 7th /8th edition

[@6St6Jimmy6]

The restrictions are like what most people already play, so not too strict.

[@Garethadvertiser]

Enjoy the show a lot but I'm a relative new player. What do you mean by SDS? I've heard the show and others mention a few times

[@stanrichardson9297]

Specialist design studio, the team within gw that is responsible for the old world

[@ComandaKronikk]

Great video boiz! However, I am curious this rules change just looks like it's for one specific tournament format at one event tho? I don't think there's anything to really suggest its a major permanent change?

[@SquareBasedOldWorld]

We are assuming the events team got guidance off the rules team. Also that's definitely what it's going to be

[@ComandaKronikk]

@ Ah ok! Thanks for the quick reply! #BASD

[@playfulruss4227]

@@SquareBasedOldWorld why though, when the rule of three didn't last, and felt like the events team using a familiar 40k rule - rather than something Alderman et al would advise? It's not a rule found in other SDS games, for example.

[@jimart3230]

I would like to see something like 2nd spell your army casts is at -1, 3rd at -2 etc. That or something like having a number of power dice per turn (even if it's a fixed 12). Character armor saves probably shouldn't override the mount save with the new way of adding wounds. That said, just playing with people who aren't wankers is a real good way of managing this kind of stuff. There's always a way to skew into something unbalanced in games like this.

[@backinthelapse]

My only issue is I can’t find any damn local games because every one sets up fairly regular tournaments 😂 I don’t have the stamina for that

[@PRAISE_HASHUT]

The new Dwarf doesn’t have a big enough hat and his tusks are too small.

[@BRI-tf4mc]

Lord T as a guest???? Can he be summoned from the dead?

[@BRI-tf4mc]

Deep dive with Tomb kings?

[@warpaintjj]

You know printed river mats available in 6 feet strips right?

[@markysgeeklab8783]

Heresy levels of frothyness, but there is nowhere else within GW for us fans to go if they stop producing old world. They know most of us dont like AOS & they know we will jump to a comminity project or to mantic if they dont keep things going.

[@627hjc]

Level 4 is still too powerful for the basic magic rules in this game at 2000pts or less. Its a must take if you want to do magic, and if you dont take a level 4 its pointless almost. Its a shame.

[@AndyPrzybyla]

you doing Movember Mr Val

[@Bolththrower]

This show really needs time stamps for the topics.

[@Triphos]

Val’s mustache rules

[@TiggityFiggity]

The rumored changes to hero points limits really only seems like it will affect warriors of chaos dragon riders. not much else from what i can see.

[@SamuraiMujuru]

Yeah. Both a fully kitted Tomb King and High Priest clear the 500 point limit.

[@Ultr4l0f]

If I kit out my wood elf lord it goes a bit north of 500 (ogre blade + talisman of protection + annoyance of nettlings + the -1 WS/i spite, and arcane bodkin arrows. 556 pts. I mean. I couls just remove the arrow and the ogre blade and tale great weapon instead and save points. But as it is right now its my standard

[@xblue_kennyx4519]

Rip my goblin on arachnarok 🤣 he gonna lose all his items 😅

[@christopherblackburn6811]

Goblins are the greatest most powerful faction. GW are just scared of the Arachnarok’s brilliance.

[@tom4tk396]

for the quarter

[@AM-uw3gp]

I hear it’s been tough

[@chrisgoodrich8987]

Link to the lore video please!!

[@olavc.oevele1902]

Val's moustache makes me doubt my heterosexuality.

[@rosvall216]

Really? I'd say..

[@SquareBasedOldWorld]

As it should

[@valheffelfinger6521]

It's just getting started

[@mrsnakesmrnot8499]

When Val turns his ‘stache into a handlebar ‘stache, there will be no more doubt, mate. Grrrrrrrrrrooooooowl!

[@TomMurrath]

I'm still an old millenial putting pictures up as batreps 😅🤣

[@landonpaints]

Hello boys

[@SquareBasedOldWorld]

We are back

[@skinniestfatman5641]

I think they should bring back the power dice pool like they had back in 8th ed,that way players have to spread out their pool and habve t think which spells they want to cast.

[@gogohero1]

Val you handsome mofo, like the new look

[@johannvonrichthofen]

Pickelhaube is the word for the helmet in german.

[@SquareBasedOldWorld]

My favourite game

[@mrsnakesmrnot8499]

Val could wear one next episode to celebrate the release of the new dwarf model.

[@stevekearns6173]

Great stuff guys. I have to say GW is one of the worst run companies I've seen.

[@YouTubeuser6294]

New video! 🎉

[@googlemademedoit806]

Where Bretonnia army overview T_T

[@zaynevanday142]

Is that Ron Jeremy ?

[@SquareBasedOldWorld]

The Heffhog

[@WolfpriestCjarl]

you dudes have extreme facial goodness

[@lestrike2707]

Jup, TK are too cheap. Their un-modifiable ranged attacks are so strong. Their Tomb Scorpions have ALL the rules and they are cheap as chips. And why does everything have killing blow agains monsters and infnatry? XD Why is their Dragon so dirt cheap as well? :D

[@temus2858]

As TK player i partially agree. The good things are too cheap but the average things are too expensive. Bone giant , 160 pts is too expensive for exemple, nobody will play them with there stat and current rules (paired weapon with no +1A, no swiftride, WS3 and D3 stomp), Sepulcral Stalker with their giant base, useless shot and WS3 are by far too expensive, the basic chariot with D3 impact hits without ap are too expensive. But the dragon with fly, swiftride (and marched) are too cheap, Necrosphinx are too cheap too (swiftrive +fly + marched).

[@lestrike2707]

@ however last friday i faced off against 4 giants and I lost. Their T6 S6 and killing blows on potentially unending attacks is a little much imo The Necropolis knights without riders (Cult of Death?) were almost absurd -> reserve from behind me , they‘re skirmishers and their charge range is enormous (seiftstrife, 8ish inch move, poison, impact hits (1)) they killed my necro on mortis engine with their threat range. In general to me fighting TK always feels like an uphill battle. Their shooting is too reliable and cheap, everything has terror and all the killing blows. Ordinary skeletons get a phalanx rule like they were elites. Their reserve move spell makes them stupidly fast (does not help my Opponent usually rolls higher than 10 for every cast). Well ushabti bow death star always hitzi g on 4s or 60 skeleton bowmen with poison - idk it feels a bit much at times. They have the best, cheapest scouts in the game. The Necrotect buff is plainly broken. My biggest issue with them is however the Tomb Scorpion and the Necrosphinx: Too fast, too powerful, too cheap.

[@RolandoRatas]

btw I'm sure I did some research on the guy that burnt his WHFB army when AoS was announced or hinted at - the main video of the burning got taken down from KZbin about 3-4 years ago and I remember it was a High Elf army. I did my research into the guy who did the burning and I think he wrote sci-fi or fantasy books that weren't that successful. I can't remember his name it was years ago.

[@SquareBasedOldWorld]

It was a dark elf army

[@RolandoRatas]

@@SquareBasedOldWorld must be a The Mandela Effect thing !

[@RolandoRatas]

@@SquareBasedOldWorld nope, you were right it was a Dark Elf Army. It's on KZbin video 'Death Holy Death Mourns'.

[@GilthosDrakoniss]

😊

[@leovaeg]

TOW should just remove all unit selection restrictions

[@Zenfoxgames]

I’m glad they tried with the Army comp, but this is absolute garbage and a 20% character cap would be even worse. GW is just telling some people that they can’t play with their models (dragons) by drawing an arbitrary line. The points are what are supposed to balance the game and if what, 3 models? from the core factions are that big a deal, just up their points cost a bit. But don’t tell someone who just lovingly converted some AoS dragon into a chaos lord that now they can’t play the game.

[@SquareBasedOldWorld]

I mean. You can definitely still play at the 25% cap. They just have to modify their kit. Also JTY is very sympathetic to this point (reference his comments in the WoC round table) so big badass models are intended and will continue to be protected for sure.

[@znachwd2015]

Bullshit. Dwarven gunline is still oppressive as fk ans unfun. This game is dead

[@ryanburke6354]

Obviously, it's not dead. Sorry for your devastating loss.

[@DerExxe]

If they wanted us to play big Heroes on Dragons… why don’t they sell them? 😅🫣😂

[@SquareBasedOldWorld]

I AGREE