Games Workshop Fundamentally Changes List Building

[@EonsOfBattle]

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[@GaleOfTheVale]

Plague marines only coming in boxes of 7 really grinds my gears

[@symmo95]

I agree. You can somewhat circumnavigate this by building one as an icon bearer, but it still leaves you with one extra marine. OR they add the extra 3 plague marines (I think they used to be called “Plague Brethren”) that GW have been trying to push

[@Gray_Falcon]

That is annoying but with all the complaining I bet GW solution is to reduce the number in a box to 5 and continue to charge the same price.

[@thesheeteels8252]

You can take 7 as of yesterday. Rejoice!

[@WoodImp]

Jay mate, having your videos on while I work on my own is the only thing that keeps me going, never stop

[@StimmBehr]

I've found the Imp

[@WoodImp]

@@StimmBehr I do be lurkin'

[@warbossbenny6877]

Ork meganobz comes 3 in a box with the option to build a Big Mek. So the most you need for a full squad is 2 boxes

[@Zeetro]

Was about to comment this.

[@soffren]

Oh, for real? Guess who's abouta order two boxes? 🤣

[@antigrav6004]

Or 3d print some better looking ones

[@warbossbenny6877]

@@antigrav6004 it's very rare to see someone 3D print better models. Not that all are bad it's just they always don't look to appealing

[@Chris-cv1yh]

​​@@warbossbenny6877hats just plain not true anymore. There plenty of incredible artists with sculpts more detailed than GW. The von ryans leapers and barbgaunts i printed have more fine details and sharper edges than the plastic ones i just bought in leviathan

[@dagon2643]

Got a video idea was hoping you could make considering I haven't seen it anywhere online. Perhaps cover every army and rank or discuss their difficulty to paint, touching on things like ease for new and veteran painters with sub topics like easy to paint but difficult to paint very well/detailed. Think it would be an interesting deep dive and discussion topic that hasn't really been covered and you might be a great creator to cover it

[@abrohm2983]

What's strange is where the squad numbers don't line up with boxes. Long fangs have 5 or 6 for example, and blood claws are 10 or 15 (do you can use the current grey hunter box of the online only blood claws box, but two grey hunters boxes leaves you with 5 extra)

[@TheLordofMetroids]

Death Guard Plague Marines are Seven a box because GW wanted to be cute, and they only come in squads of 5 or 10. Custodian Guard Squad comes with 5 guys, but you need 6 to field a full team.

[@samthompson2980]

And plague marines!! 7 in box, squad size 5 or 10 😮

[@loydheatoniii2188]

I like the free work here and I don't mind the lock sizes. And you do see a little of it. When they came into the guys with jump backs and no jump backs. They did make 2 separate data cards for them, so if they could do it for them. I'm pretty sure like the devastation squad. They could do it for them and have the ultimate max weapons. And then the infantry type weapons and have them in 2 data card.

[@jacobpalmer6155]

One annoying thing about the free upgrades is hunter killer missiles, or just "extra weapons" that dont cost anything to add that just result in a better unit.

[@oskar6661]

Yep, and conversely, if you don't take that, you're basically punishing yourself.

[@Trees36547]

@@oskar6661 which means rebuy all the models you glued anything but the best weapons too, I hate the simplification of wargear

[@righter8665]

@jacobpalmer6155 But it applies to ALL units. It's not like you are at a disadvantage b/c "extra weapons" are part of your opponents load out and you either didn't opt for it in your army or don't have a comparable unit. @@Trees36547 That is very not true. This is not 1995 WH40K where everything must be WYSIWIG. If your playgroup can't accept that the Lascannon on your Sentinel is a heavy flamer for a game, or that the Leman Russ is another one of the multiple variants, then I feel for you. Unless in a tournament, people shouldn't have to buy something because they built it in a specific way.

[@lukem2971]

​@righter8665 WYSIWYG should be the standard in terms of what GW thinks of when making these changes, even in casual games, it makes things far easier for both players. I feel bad for those who have sponsonless russes for example

[@IamZeus1100]

My list building will continue to revolve around the rule of cool 😎 i love the new app and battle forge for list building now tho , definitely huge improvement since the old app . 10th is actually seeking fun to play and accessible so I think I’ll finally start playing after 1.5 years of collecting and painting models + reading lots of lore . 9th just felt like chore learning

[@timunderbakke8756]

The main problem I have with the fixed size lists is how it really causes havoc with the transports. I want to bring a 5man bladeguard plus a character in my impulsor. Nope, got to bring no characters and 6 bladeguard to fill the transport, or got to leave empty seats on the impulsor because it’s 3 bladeguard or 6

[@brutalchaos92]

I have that problem too, but my buddy got me a LR proteus, which can only hold 6 dudes when it has the special 12" no deepstrike bubble equipped

[@phaylnx]

I know that can be frustrating, but you could always attach a Lieutenant & Captain to the 3 man squad and get TONS of buffs at the cost of 1, AP-2 attack. You may be able to also put a second unit of like a lone operative character in that same Impulsor with the above squad. No where in the core rules does it say that you can't have more that one unit in the same vehicle like it did in some previous editions.

[@Jason-wh7in]

You can still run a 5 man bladeguard team, all you are doing is paying the min or max squad cost. Essentially you’re paying a 33pt premium. Your other choice is to use a drop pod.

[@Closet_Jedi]

I have the same issue with Sisters Doninion squads. I typically put them in an Immolator to start. With a transport capacity of 6 models, I have to take a unit of 10 Dominions, split the squad into 2 separate units, and leave 1 behind.

[@timunderbakke8756]

@@phaylnxI’m pretty sure the cost just jumped pretty high to do the double character

[@danielbuchner1253]

Death Guard Plague Marines for example comes 7 in a box, but you can only take 5 or 10 :-(

[@tiberiumnp8030]

This seems like a simple mistake on GWs part. For example gravis squads come in boxes of 3 and squad size is 3/6. I’d imagine they’ll fix that for DG sooner rather than later.

[@NINETAILEDF0X]

It’s not a mistake, because they sell an overpriced box of 3 Plague Marines that you can use to fill out your squad! Perfect solution!

[@oldchinahand1305]

Not really - unless you’re playing against a super strict opponent then X(points)/5 or 10 is pretty simple to work out.

[@tyjames3339]

6:45 I mean, don't death guard come 7 per box? GW is just giving a big middle finger to death guard players with the squad size rules. But also being able to take chaos models in their God's number, nurgle in 7 and khorne in 8 etc, was fun and fluffy

[@miguelperez9906]

It feels like just building with power levels with extra steps

[@JanitorScruffy]

Thats because it is

[@alfie5860]

I hate it.. there’s one optimum build and then everything else on the sprue is a waste of plastic..

[@thomasloney4301]

I love it. The idea that there is an optimal build is just not true. Take the example of lax cannons and heavy bolters. Those las cannons are crap for shooting at grots or eldar guardians the heavy bolter would be optimal

[@LiluDallasMultipass]

I kitbash and play for fun. Send me your "wasted plastic" I'll give it a more worthy home.

[@thomaskeshel3874]

@@alfie5860whereas before people would take sub optimal builds and still have a bunch of ‘wasted’ plastic…

[@mantisgaming7103]

Your videos always compel me to paint my orks !

[@edenwalker5494]

there's never a wrong time to paint works. if you have no GW works you could always print some Puppets War orks, they're awesome and it means i haven't wrecked my GW minis with ham-fisted painting while i get my skills up to snuff

[@edenwalker5494]

i just realised auto correct changed ORKS to work. sorry bout that

[@TeufloV-qm7gh]

What if think GW should change is the max squad size for boyz of 20, because I now have a lot of ork boyz, but can't play with them. So therefore I think they should add the option of 30 Boyz in one squad for all the green tide players.

[@colin_painting_adventure]

What I hope happens when the codexs arrive 1) is that each army gets more detachment choices to spice things up. We have already seen this in the Space Marines. Something that matches the lore. 2) keep the points the same for a unit's standard load out and charge extra for changing the load out for that unit. 3) correct any decisions made for simplicity so they don't contradict the lore. Eg 7 nurgle marines not 5 or 10

[@timunderbakke8756]

They should just say 5,7, or 10 for the plague marines.

[@TheLordofMetroids]

I imagine the reason why 90% of the squads needed to be ran in multiples of five is because of the new blast rule. If you could take nine right now you would almost always take nine to get rid of that extra hit.

[@tempusavatar]

What would be revolutionary is if an army's codex supplements, not supplants the index. Print subfaction detachments with dedicated strategems, extra lore, more enhancements, but it then tells you to reference the index for dataslates. No need to waste paper on material already published online.

[@sonicwingnut]

​@@TheLordofMetroidsjust make the blast rule 1-5, 5-10, 10-15 etc. Then more people take 5 or 10 etc because now taking odd numbers is less advantageous. Plus lots of people would still take 10 if it gives them more wargear options.

[@dovinvespa9646]

Omfg of the most hillarious things about the unit sizes being locked is GW giving us 2 ripper swarms in the starter box and then locking them to units of 3 lol

[@WarlanderTV]

This is why I moved to Killwager...

[@monkeydude1313]

7:41 The point isn't lost, but just wanted to point out, you can build 3 meganobz in one box if you're willing to forgo the big mek :) So 2 boxes only needed. Just thought I'd throw in an FYI, the point still stands for other boxes though (plague marines...)

[@JNicls]

Well the sisters hate psykers as well and they love Celestine. I think Grimaldus will be fine if gets to be a imperial saint. Btw. Efrael Stern is an imperial saint as well but with her the imperium didn’t take the psyker part as good as they did before.

[@TheLordofMetroids]

There was also a guard general in the lore who became a Living Saint. I can't recall his name but he was the founder of the Maccabian Janissaries.

[@caveychip7]

As someone who has only ever played the 2023 warhammer fest 40k, a couple of games of kill team and 1 game of age of sigmar, which is my main system, I'm completely fine with set points

[@bubbagort]

cries in death guard box sets that come with seven models with our squad sizes of 5 to 10

[@dhaub7174]

They really have to do something with death guard. Can only take squads of 5 or 10 PM. Sells them in a box of 7 🙁

[@catcadev]

Bro if Grimaldus became a saint he'd totally be a warp repellent. His light and anger would be so blinding the warp cringes away around him

[@faddishbigfoot4914]

The Sister have what you're talking about. Like the Celestine Sacresents have points based on the two tiers. 65 pt for 4 ( box size) to 130 pt for 10 + the superior for both

[@rytebthepyromancer2535]

Honestly, the main ɓugbear is the Transport Capacity works badly with certain squads and leaders. It seems kind of bs that I can't take a leader if I am trying to transport the ones that come in multiples of 3.

[@albundy5492]

Yup or do 3 man I like 5 bladeguard and Ragnar in impulsor last edition was excited for it to actually be a unit and now it's worse thats he's joined so on to the shelf

[@ervinfunk4867]

What airbrush do you use?

[@righter8665]

In regard to separate datasheets for min/max loadouts, IMO that's a bad idea. Yes, there are a dozen different landraider and landspeeder variants, and those work well with individual 'slates. But by saying, ok, here's a dataslate for an all heavy bolter squad and here's another for all plasma cannons, not only removes tactical flexibility, but also forces players to buy more models to complete the squad. With a 5 man Devastator squad, I like to include 2 heavy bolters and 2 lascannons, an an example. The HB are for taking out squishy targets and the lascannons bigger stuff. But together, the HB can help knock wounds off bigger targets and the LC can guarantee model removal on softer targets.

[@alexonyootewb]

Funny you should mention Tyranid warriors getting multiple data sheets, because that appears to be what they did. Ranged and melee squads are different, with different points costs too.

[@glennylebeau4492]

I would love to see a tutorial/progress video of Grimaldus. That base looks great already.

[@Nigelius]

Plague Marines are in a hopeless place. Come in a box of 7, can only be brought in squads of 5 or 10. It takes five boxes to make 3 * 10 and 1 * 5 squads, that’s the minimum buy to make squads with no wastage. Edit: Wargear costs should be done unit by unit when a codex launches. Plague marines are a great example for having a lot of upgrades, so just taking a bolter (damn you awesome monopose plague marines) can sometimes feel like you are being cheated on points. The counterpoint is devastators, the heavies are an auto take so really the balance should come from making each weapon profile excel in certain battlefield tasks. Points costs on wargear to that end should be governed by their impact on balance.

[@Headzploder]

You can always buy the Plague Marines Reinforcements box to make it an even 10, but it’s $45 for 3 models which doesn’t feel worth it

[@TheLordofMetroids]

​@@HeadzploderAlso good luck trying to find that box. I swear they don't actually exist, and when it's $5 cheaper than getting four more Plague Marines, It's really overcosted.

[@TheLordofMetroids]

@@Dezkoi I think they decided units of five for most armies because of the new blast rule. Like right now if you could take nine guys, You take one attack less from grenades. So I think they just genuinely forgot how big their boxes are.

[@phillipbritton3836]

This is fun for me as I just started at the end of the last edition.

[@socalastarte6727]

When I first heard about the new list building, I was concerned , but after using the surprisingly AMAZING new list builder app, I have been pleased. I’m a 40K vet (since 3rd edition) and it’s refreshing to not have to hunt and peck for individual models to flesh out each squad. Also weapon options being free is amazing. List building is really fun again. So far 10th is a big win for me.

[@SpoonyBard88]

As a newcomer, I feel the same. Bittiness is tedious and pointless.

[@11AleZZ]

What your talking about, the app is still crap??, tons of errors, and you need to change all the weapons manually if you remove or add more models, also pretty hard to make a exact points list, you need to change units time and time again to sum 2k

[@socalastarte6727]

Nope. I’ve made 20+ two thousand point lists with the app and haven’t had 1 issue. I used BattleScribe since early 8th and loved it. The 40K app in 9th was a joke. The 10th edition app is AMAZING! You’re in the minority my friend

[@Dementia55372]

​@@11AleZZAlso for some reason there is no functionality to add characters to Squads in the list despite the fact that this is supposed to be the "every squad has a character" edition

[@Stella_Technicus]

Well Jay, the thing with the Land Raider and the three data cards is, the three typs of Land Raiders are also three iffrent kits you can buy. It not that you can buy one and then make one of the three out of it, you can only make the one that is in the box, the classic Land Raider, the Crusaer or the Redeemer.

[@emdeo]

My bolter plague marines stay on the shelf because why would they ever be on the board?

[@GreenBlueWalkthrough]

7:35 for my game system I guessesmate based on how I set up the balance... And it has worked out so far 200 pages of game and 4 years later... Like it's all about getting a feel for it... But I also enjoy mathhammering it out when playtesting then making it perfect and then being surprised when it breaks... Instead of just making it good and not being surprised when it breaks. Edit: It also has made my game stupid resualt to new players like in the last 2 non solo playtests I had players(It's a TTRPG and a wargame by the way) not understand really how to play it and some that did. And the game was still balanced and working great even when not being played as intened which is incredible I think.

[@moomixgaming9986]

Primaris sword brethren squad is 5 or 11. Thats my only gripe, i need to buy a kit for 1 model

[@eric_intotheunknown]

Totally agree about not doing too much math-hammer. And I don't mind the min-max squad levels - but quite a few do need a mid-level. Death Guard should always have an option for 7 Plague Marines. And the fact you can't take 6 Deathshroud Terminators and a Leader in a Land Raider seems like an oversight - could easily fix it by letting the Land Raider take one more Terminator, so hopefully a quick fix.

[@calebbarnhouse496]

Unit sizes are fine as a desighn choice, and can even be flavorful as in real life squads are made up of set numbers of guys, they don't throw it into a random number generator to decide it, however that gives you a few problems, transports aren't all desighned around the new system a 10 man transport vehicle is handicapped because now it's so limited in what it can bring, they should have changed the transports to count up in 5s, so transport 1 = 5 2, 10, 3 15 4 = blaze it, and so on, them characters can have a rule where if they are in a squad they transport for free, it thet they aren't in a squad they cost 1

[@Highlaw]

Power Levels (called Points now) could be a good enough alternative, but GW must now do internal balancing between weapon options to compensate - they haven't for some reason and it boggles my mind. Now there's no choice between squads, but also little choice within the meager special weapon selection since some are obviously better than others in all situations, they need to buff the ones left behind in order to make list building and adaptability interesting again.

[@Mategeneral]

They actually did balance the weapons for some. For example check out the space marine inceptor squad. Pretty strong bolters compared to what they did before. But I can imagine they did not get around to rebalance everything. Hopefully they'll do it eventually to everything.

[@randomusernameCallin]

​@@Mategeneralthere also the tau crisis suits drones which have one choice that is not stupid.

[@Duo_20]

Im about to start mu dark templar army, bit I will wait to see some lists to select the loadout

[@RealJahzir]

Meganobz come 3 to a box. I think the 2 is so if you buy one box and field one as a Big Mek you can still field the other 2 as a min squad

[@Chris-cv1yh]

The fixed squad sizes are annoying, but the purpose of it is finally balancing horde armies. Ork boyz are now 8.5 ppm. Guardsmen are 6.5 ppm.

[@Retrosicotte]

The purpose of it is to dumb the game down and sell more boxes. That's it.

[@lancechamberlin8687]

I only recently learned the crusader squad comes with Black Templar specific pyreblasters. I'd love to see the Infernus squad from Leviathan all done up as BT with those huge flamers chained to their wrists.

[@Jason-wh7in]

There are 2 pyre flamers in the crusade box. The leviathan infernus unit has sculpted arms which includes attached shoulder pads. If you want to make them BT themed, swap the heads for crusader helms, add chains and iconography.

[@daloreboss5189]

The wargear point u made is the case with nid warriors with ranged weapons or warriors with pure melee. And it works

[@MrAnihillator]

Do transports count as wargear?

[@scoutjax3202]

I am sure that units varying in size will come in the codex also the cost for equipment will by added. I am pretty sure the 8th with the index we saw this

[@titanmatrix]

One). Tyranid warriors already are split into ranged or melee. Two) codexes won't be free. The indexes were just to get everyone into the game. Everyone will still need their codex but it'll be available through the app again, which is the best way to display into anyway

[@JMcMillen]

Four las cannons sounds great until you look and see a giant hoard of little dudes charging your way. Then you're going to really wish you had all those heavy bolter rounds to throw at them.

[@charlescarpenter9098]

From a business perspective, the smartest move for codexes would be to have a free base level of rules in the app for each faction, and then a code in the codexes (and subsequent campaign books) that unlock more options in the app. Like, basic marines get the free Gladius Task Force detachment and then when the codex comes out it unlocks new detachments with new units and stratagems in the app. They can still sell the codex, but the rules can still be easily tweaked because they're online. They could also offer "free" access to everything via a Warhammer + subscription to boost those numbers.

[@azaziel9287]

Outside of the Warhammer plus making it all free, I think that’s what they’re doing. He’s a free detachment for everyone so you can play, here’s your indexes. If you want access to everything your army can do, buy the codex. They’re gonna have a code in them for the app. They’ve had that since 9th so I can’t see them changing it.

[@felixthecrazy]

Stares at you in DG PM boxes of 7.

[@newworldempire]

I wonder if free codexes will be based on the sales of the indexes and in general post Leviathan. The app wanting us to enter codex codes doesn't bode well though.

[@gwonk]

I get the impression that I am in the minority, but I find that putting 6 slightly different profiles in a squad is not only less in-game effective, it is less fun to have to say "oh, the orange die is the sergeant's plasma gun, the pink one is the blight launcher, the yellow one is number of hits for the plague spewer, the green one is the meltagun, the blue one is the plagued bolt gun, and the purple one is the chaos lord's combi-weapon" (that is legal, justifiable plague marine loadout) instead of having a team of 10 boltgun shots, a team of 4 lascannons that I can roll all together. This is also why I preferred sergeants with an extra attack(one more die) over ones with, say, a chainsword (2 of the dice are separate and I have to clearly communicate them). When you use your last 10 points to get a lascannon it is a cool special bonus. When every squad has 5 free upgrades that need to be rolled separately it is annoying.

[@davidmyers4524]

Building my first 40K army. It is Black Templars! Only sad part is i started building and buying late spring and i was hoping to use a Razorback for my Sternguard but with the keywords change i can't do that anymore. In fact i am not sure if Razorback works? You know any units i can take in my Razorback?

[@dist0rted320]

I'm a Salamanders player and I'm planning on running as many meltas/flamers as humanly possible lol I hope the Ironclad dreadnought doesn't get discontinued too soon hahah, but I'm glad that tactical marines are confirmed to be safe for now, which came as a big surprise to me when I first heard it.

[@Raven60317]

Great day when you upload Jay!!

[@JachymorDota]

Free Wargear is ok. But I agree, If you make options, make them meaningful. If a Battlewagon has 10 options, but half of them are Just "Upgrades" already include in the costs, then just turn them into "Battlewagon stuff" for extra attacks and don't waste space, both on paper and my mind. Also, Meganobz boxes have 3 models, but could also become Big Mekz, so that's why you have the option for 2 - which is silly. Still need 3 boxes for a 6-Meganobz + Bigmek squad for maximum survivability.

[@abrohm2983]

In terms of options bloat I'm curious if we'll get more detachments in white dwarf. I don't recall hearing anything about it one way or the other but I guess we'll find out soon. Im torn about the possibility. On the one hand Im excited to get more nore quickly, but cost and options could get out of hand fast

[@steveseltz2798]

40k players, when there is min/max groups and free wargear: "Do you think this is a joke?" AoS players: *Giggling*

[@SaytreJudd]

Two things: 1.) The Land Raider Crusader was introduced as a Black Templar-only unit back in 3rd edition and was the first unit that had the "Assault Ramp" rules so they could charge after deploying out of the Land Raider. My Blood Angels were very jealous. 2.) People who think GW will not charge for the Codexs are doomed to disappointment. I would instead break the "Crunch" & "Fluff" into two books; a slim Codex (with a code to have the rules show up in the app) with all the tabletop rules, and a Tome that has all the lore you could ever want about that faction. Both of these books should be under $25 USD.

[@Coproquim]

I’ve gone back to 3rd Ed and I love it

[@jeffpetersen6284]

I haven’t played Warhammer yet, but making list building simpler sounds great, because I’m trying to get my kids into it, and they aren’t quite ready for complex list building yet. If I can get them to try it first as a small mole build, then in a couple years they’ll be hooked.

[@catzilla3538]

For a death guard player like myself, free wargear doesn't make a difference since most units didn't have any significant wargear changes and the plagues marines already had it for free. I am mad about the fixed squad sizes since plague marines come in boxes of 7 and you can only take squads of 5 or 10 which is a pain to see 2 of my other marines just sitting in the box and waiting for GW to fix it. 😢

[@JasonM69]

They said the codex rules will be available for free online. They will also be releasing traditional codecies for sale later.

[@knuckl6972]

My biggest problem with the new points is very specific to me: I have a space marine army that is built around 5 man tactical squads, each with specially modelled sergeants. Completely unusable in 10th, which is pretty sad. Why no 5 man tactical squads?

[@celephais8544]

Yeah my tactical squads all have no upgrades as none came in the box, so now they are just as bad but overcosted.

[@yndexis2171]

Didn’t gw make a point that the rules from codecies are also going to show up on the free app? Or did i misunderstand that? Something about "The app will always have the most up to date rules"

[@ohat3062]

I think veteran players' problem is not necessarily that they "want" to buy singles (though some do), but just that they've built up armies in old blister packs or weird size boxes, and now can't use all of them. For example, I have 8 fire dragons, 7 howling banshees, 16 termagants.... It's a shame that so much has to sit on the shelf when playing. Or sometimes you lose a model, and now four others are out of action. In general, I like the simplification or sergeants/wargear and force organisation chart, but I think intermediate squad sizes wouldn't add too much complexity.

[@ErrenaGlaciell]

Yeah, pretty sure our codexes are charged and there's a code to unlock it digitally in the app.

[@samsolopeeps]

Good idea with the data sheets

[@michaelthebarbarian5527]

Three meganobz come in a box. The two unit size is to accommodate using one model to make a big Mek in mega armor

[@slambaz2]

GW is probably recreating that Tom cruse laughing meme every time someone wants the codexes to be free

[@frederickflores8152]

I love the new game play but trying to build a usable list and still having to leave out units I want is a pain in the butt. Free upgrades are great since trying to budget for weapons was irritating

[@oldchinahand1305]

So units come in I.e 5 or 10 units and respective points value. GW have literally provided a points per model basis for any veteran player to calculate their army size. I appreciate that the min/max unit sizes is a little more ingrained into Army building in 10th Edition than the above but unless you’re playing super strict tournament rules - you’ve got a table that just requires some basic division and multiplication to figure out a 7 figure unit points cost.

[@rafrecon]

For me at least I would use adding 1- a few models a unit to bulk them out if I was missing points. But now if I have say 20 points left, I can't just add a tactical marine to get SOMETHING for those points. In some cases I can maybe take an enhancement but if I have 1 character that already has one or just elite HQs or whatever, then that 20 points left is just sitting there untouched it seems. Unless I wanna redo the entire army and try to get to the max points. For me this is why min and max squads is bad. For example you get 10 in a new box, but if you didn't have the points for all 10 in 9th edition, you could maybe bring 7 and still have a decent squad. That's my view anyway

[@ChrisLee179]

As a new player who's only played 2 games of 9th edition it's so much easier to understand list building in 10th. 9th I had to have a app to help me understand and keep my points in check with wargear and such. From a new players perspective it's not as intimidating and actually gets me excited to play because it's relatively simple to get into a game instead of agonising over points and what wargear before the games even started.

[@Nuclear_Spider]

I kinda wish they went with a hybrid method on the free upgrades. Make the "cheapest/weakest" upgrades free, but have a couple strong upgrades still cost points. For instance, make the heavy bolter free and make upgrading the H bolter to the lascannon cost points. It lets the lascannon be powerful, while the bolter doesn't get overlooked. If they did this, maybe they could un-nerf the rail gun on my hearthkyn...

[@AVeryAngryIronWarrior]

What's everyone's opinion on index cards instead of codexs?

[@timunderbakke8756]

It would be perfect if they kept with it, which we know they won’t because GW loves money too much

[@ShimmerFur]

Jay saying that Tyranid warriors should be two data cards is really funny.

[@TheMaffi73]

Meganobz can actually be taken as 2, 3, 5 and 6 models according to the field manual, and there are a lot of other examples where units have 3 or more different size options, just sayin

[@LunarSniperWifle]

For the primaris crusader squad, I think its cause they come with the neophytes in the box and the data card has the minum for them :/ At least firstborn crusader squads we can do 5 man squads. Im not too upset about the min max point costs, if you take less you still have to pay for the next level up which i think makes sense (you may be reducing the squad to avoid blast, or for vehicle transport fitting in with as many as possible like bladeguard with a character in an impulsor or 8 termies in a LRC, etc). I love wargear is free, and it will likely be hard to fill out to an even 2K list now compared to the past, but i think its much easier and simpler now. Which is great, its so much easier to just build up a list, nothing extra besides enhancements. Quick and easy. The devastator options you mentioned, I agree with (just swap grav with plasma, basically have all the anti vehicle together and anti infantry together. And each squad maybe has missle access). It can be kinda feels bad to pay the same cost for 4 heavy bolters and 4 lascannons. Tho I do need to get more dev kits, i love having all the options available (helps me feel like my crusade fleet is fully kitted as they should be)

[@DannyQM]

the many many leman russ profiles are very cool

[@kdhlkjhdlk]

Squad sizes and Wargear being free is great, because I get to rip arms off all over again, and regret purchases. Thanks GW! Love the new points system which makes it a pain in the ass to get 2000pts in your list. Can't just bring a squad with lasguns anymore.

[@stephenwitham]

Plague marines come in boxes of 7 but can only be taken in 5 or 10.

[@EndsonLawrence]

As a Sisters player, the changes to both locked squad sizes, and all free wargear (and changes to multi-meltas and combi-weapons) really messed up my collection as I had multiple small 5 girl squads, and now I would have to double the number of sisters to make legal squads and I had them with flamers and combi weapons, but now they are priced as if they had meltas. So I am haveing them sit out this edition.

[@JadeCatMinis]

I think tyranid warriors have two different data cards. One shooting and one close combat. Both have different points cost. I think it looked like close combat is more expensive.

[@sergiorivasgonzalez9338]

Im painting Grimaldus now with sword brethren, and im enjoying every single move i make painting them haha

[@pabloalonsolasagabaster658]

if you play imperial guard, free wargear is very hard to manage. Keeping track of all those tiny special weapons and vox casters.... I wish I could simply run them with cheap and simple lasguns, and let the tanks do the heavy lifting.

[@alpharius7216]

im planning on starting eldar and the freewargear is sort of annoying since alot of heavy weapons like scatter lasers are sort of pointless and you can take brightlances on everything. i mean brightlances are hella cool and i love them but not taking them feels like a waste to me. though overall i prefer the free wargear, some weapon options just need balancing against eachother better so there is more reason to take them.

[@Scrombo2]

I'm not a game designer but, I think the best middle ground would be base squad size and then you purchase individual units and, most war gear is free but, the the really big killy stuff like plasma, lascannons, powa klaws, etc, costs points. I think that'd be a nice balance of beginner friendly and you can really math-hammer the shit put of this if you want to

[@user-fn2rt6lb1o]

i know the how is coming, but i am never prepared for its delivery. Love the content Jay!

[@striderfox71]

For the war gear stuff, I've defaulted to power weapons for my death company becuase its just better then the chain sword. They both have the same amount of attcks but the power weapons has better strength and -1ap. I say they need to give the lesser weapons some love to give players a trade off between weapon options.

[@wyattpatton1180]

Different data cards is a good idea I think. The Tyranid Warriors is a great example. Instead of 8 billion combos for weapons, now there are 2 types of warriors. Melee oriented and Range oriented. Makes it a bit easier to sift through the different weapons.

[@ax31337]

If anyone is having trouble with the whole death gaurd only having 7 models, i would recommend to get some horus hersey space marine and kistbash them with the remaing bit left in that box set

[@Klotbeck]

I prefer the wargear costing points, it made list building interesting. Also I'm hateing how many wargear options Tyranids and Genestealer Cults lost (probably others too, I don't play them though), especially my tyranid warriors, what's the point of so many weapons if they don't do anything? Also the issue with multiple data cards for different load outs is you end up with way too many data cards like the Leman Russ has (way too many variants, just keep it simple). If anything they should look at Kings if War and Fire Fight from mantic, their list building system is pretty good and keeps infantry relevant.

[@Slayernuke83]

Keep the videos coming Jay!

[@jimsutter2748]

Free wargear is particularly a problem with vehicles like the Leman Russ, where the option of no sponsons vs the most expensive sponsons would have a cost difference that is more than the cost an entire squad of infantry. There are plenty of lore and aesthetic reasons why you might not want them on vehicles. It is especially grating when the new Epic even models their Leman Russes without sponsons. If GW doesn’t want to fix this with making the sponsons cost something, they should at least make the no sponsons option have some benefit to balance, maybe an extra bit of speed (lighter) or extra wounds (less weak points in the armor).

[@GreenBlueWalkthrough]

Now they need to balance the wargear to make them all side grades of each other instead of have some be factually better but cost extra points you may not have always.

[@billdefranza4927]

Jay, I think you need a stronger mic on the live studio audience; I can't hear them.

[@tristanspahr6164]

Jokes on you, I left for Battletech.

[@brokenheroics8223]

They announced they were doing Codices, but they would just have additional Faction Rules and Army Rules. Currently, they only have Gladius Task Force for SM, and Waaagh Tribe for Orks. I think they will have more of those options so everyone is not playing the same army. Example, Orks might have a Deathskulls or Lootas Faction Rule with new Strats to replace the Waaagh Tribe ones. Honestly, it makes sense. They could have them for free, but who knows. I think the first 4 books are gonna be Space Marines, Necrons, Tyranids and AdMechs. I could be wrong. ::shrugs::

[@brokenheroics8223]

Also, I am not being that guy, just some info I read online.