Game Theory: The Secret Identity of Hollow Knight's Hero (Hollow Knight)

[@GameTheory]

The below comment is from the channel Sumwan who did an incredible job critiquing this episode. Unfortunately, the comment got lost (KZbin has an algorithm that is constantly "turning over" comments on high-view videos) and despite digging around for hours looking for it, I couldn't find the original. But the work that she put in was SO thorough that I wanted to make sure it got seen, so here it is! ***Original Text from Sumwan*** I've seen this claim many times and it really does not make any sense. Not only does it contradict evidence in the game but it is very misleading. I'll go through the points one by one and explain why: 6:35 “We too might be in the ranks of a higher being” The Knight is the child of the Pale King and the White Lady, who are both higher beings. It makes sense that the Knight is able to read these higher being tablets. This doesn't mean that the Pale King IS the Knight. 7:20 “Does it really sound like we're just some failed experiment cast into the depths of this world?” No, it doesn't sound like that. The Vessels are the children of the Pale King and the White Lady who are born from eggs in the Abyss, which gave them a Shade. The Vessels are not just “failed experiments”. 8:12 “This poem is addressed to the Pale King” It literally says “elegy for HALLOWNEST”. This poem is about Hallownest. “Under palest watch” refers to the Pale King, but the “you”, is most definitely Hallownest. 8:30 “In the beginning of the game's lore, all bugs were basically a hive mind controlled by the moth god Radiance” This information is not supported by anything. Only the Radiance's descendants, the moth tribe, worshipped her. Nowhere is it stated that the Radiance controlled everything else. The Mantis Tribe, the Mosskin, Deepnest, and the Hive were all separate tribes and already had minds before the Pale King. 8:51 “This isn't just a poem about the Pale King, it is directed TO the Pale King” It is about Hallownest and it is direct to Hallownest (elegy for Hallownest). 8:55 “What do we see appear on screen just moments later? Our Knight” After the poem we see THE HOLLOW KNIGHT, not the Knight. The Knight scene appears after we see the Radiance break out of the Hollow Knight. Team Cherry is NOT drawing a parallel between the Knight and the Pale King. The poem is about Hallownest. It is FOR Hallownest. And the scene with the Knight does not appear right after the poem. 10:27 “Elderbug says we are seeking our dreams in perhaps a very literal sense.” The context of this sentence matters. Elderbug is talking about how all the previous travellers went down into Hallownest to follow their dreams. He does not actually know if the Knight has any “dreams” themselves. 11:00 “Elderbug wondering if he's seen a ghost is another potentially clever play on words” No it's not. Elderbug is just referring to how he thought maybe he didn't see anyone pass him because the Knight left so quickly. This dialogue has no other meaning besides that. 11:36 “White Lady: Is it more than simply a Vessel? I almost feel like I'm once again in the presence of my beloved Wyrm” The White Lady only says this because the Knight is wearing the Kingsoul. The Kingsoul reminds her of the Pale King, not the Knight themselves. Also, the White Lady literally calls the Knight her spawn when they visit her with Grimmchild equipped: “Success then for the scarlet heart, and irony, to use my spawn to grow its own.” Are you saying that the White Lady gave birth to her own husband? 11:46 “Your noble bearing reminds me of our dear King” No surprise there since the Knight is the child of the Pale King. 12:05 “The bugs in White Palace bowing as you approach them is just screaming that you're the king” White Palace is a whole other issue, but this is really not concrete evidence. Also their dream nail dialogue makes no sense if it refers to the Knight. 12:19 “10/10 Royal Retainers can't be wrong. You are royalty” You're actually right there. The Knight IS royalty, since they're the child of the King. Not because they ARE the King. 13:28 “This line of “more transformation” seems to imply that the Pale King's death would only lead to yet another form” Not really. Bardoon says that the Pale King's death in Kingdom's Edge was not an actual death, but that it was more like a transformation. This does not mean that the Pale King can transform again after he became his bug shape. A caterpillar transforming into a butterfly also cannot transform into another being again. 13:49 “It's an ancient force that opposes the blinding light of [the Radiance]” Not just the Radiance's light, but the Pale King's too. He is referred to as a light in multiple places: The Seer: “But another light appeared in our world... A wyrm that took the form of a king.” The Pale King calls himself a light in the throne room lore tablet: “No blazing kin. Only one light shall shine against the dark.” As does the Teacher’s Archives lore tablet: “-KINGLIGHT-EM-GROWTH-INKIND-FLOW-ALLTHINK-ENFIELD” Other bugs talk about the Pale King emanating light: “Though even its pure aura is no match for the light of our dear King.” (Eternal Emilitia) “I've heard he was a glorious bug to behold, bright and radiant in visage, so much so it hurt to look at him.” (Last/Old Stag) “That lingering power alone was beacon enough to draw Us to Hallownest. How bright it must have been to mortal bug stood before it.” (Godseeker) 14:45 “The Pale King used Void to fight time itself. He wants to use the Void to attain eternal life. He births himself as a Void-based creature” Not literally time. Time here is capitalized, and it is more likely to just refer to the Radiance. Locking up the Radiance is generally seen as being what has caused the Kingdom to remain in a stasis: “Bear witness to the last and only civilisation, the eternal Kingdom. Hallownest”” “Eternity in promise and charge in progeny cursed.” “Now this Kingdom's stasis becomes the Wyrm's legacy.” “Though this hive exists within Hallownest, we play no part in its attempt at perpetuation.” It is not literally time. He is a higher being, he does not need to use the Void to “achieve eternal life”. Not to mention that the Void opposes his own powers too (see previous point). 15:25 “It seems to suggest that this egg [in White Palace] is where version 1.0 of the Pale King hatched into its upgraded form” It does not. The Pale King became his current bug form in the Cast-Off shell. The Wanderer's Journal even mentions that too on page 111: “Deep within the maw of the [Cast-Off Shell], a pale, broken egg of some sort hints at such a rebirth.” Not only that, but the egg of the Knight in the Abyss would be DEADLY for the Pale King. Void opposes his power, it would simply kill him if he were to become corrupted by the Void like the eggs of the Vessels were. 15:40 “Elsewhere in White Palace there is a nursery playing this song on the music box (shade theme). The sound that accompanies our Knight's past life coincides with the same sound from a nursery housed in the Pale King's palace.” Yes, this is true, but not because of the reason you're describing. It's because the Hollow Knight grew up in White Palace (see Path of Pain scene). This nursery was probably for them. And since the Hollow Knight is a Vessel too, it makes sense that the Shade theme place for that area. 16:21 “The existence of a connection between our Knight and the Pale King seems undeniable” Yes, it is undeniable. The Knight is the child of the Pale King. 18:13 “In cut dialogue that was datamined from the game, it shows that the Hollow Knight says “father”. Cut dialogue is not evidence. The "Father?" is cut dream nail dialogue. It was cut for a reason. We don't know when this line was written, in which context it would be used exactly, maybe the Hollow Knight's fight was different at the time, etc. 19:20 “Losing his memory helps make him purely hollow” It does not. Quirrel lost his memory and this does not happen to him. Not to mention that the Knight is not hollow. There are multiple places where the Knight is said to have a will: Steel Soul Jinn: "...It refuses to trade...? It has a will... all Its own." Void Heart description: "Unifies the void under the bearer's will." Description of a pure Vessel: "No will to break." Lastly I'm going to address some fundamental problems with this entire theory that you did not address or seem to have forgotten about. The most obvious evidence that contradicts that the Pale King is the Knight is that the Knight and the Pale King are both seen at the same time. This is during the Birthplace memory cutscene where the Hollow Knight is led out of the Abyss by the Pale King. This is a memory of the Knight themselves since the Knight dreamnails their own reflection to access this memory. Furthermore, the achievement for acquiring Void Heart also says: "Remember the past and unite the Abyss" This supports the fact that it is the Knight’s memory. Therefore, the Pale King cannot be the Knight, since they were alive at the same time. Secondly, the Knight is the child of the Pale King, not a transformation. The lore tablet to the right of the throne in White Palace says that the Vessels are the progeny of the Pale King, and the Pale King also says that the Vessels are "born of God and Void", the God obviously referring to him and the White Lady who are both higher beings. Since the Knight is the child of the Pale King (and the White Lady), the Pale King cannot BE the Knight. None of the points that were brought up align with the evidence that is in the game, and it even contradicts it in various places. To put it quite simply, the Knight is NOT the Pale King.

[@r.p4336]

It’s great to see dedicated people share their thoughts.

[@dyzaaster]

it’s good that matpat talks about evidence against his theories, instead of just saying that he’s right and ignoring critiques int he comments

[@ashyguyrickyochoa7180]

Mat who's your favorite boss? Mine is the mantis lords.

[@jonahjacobson1803]

The Game Theorists, cool, I get to comment your comment. Someone comment this comment so it can be a comment on a comment on a comment on a video.

[@lordniloc101]

WHO FRICKING CARES IF HES WRONG? It was a fun and chilling theory, that's all its supposed to be honestly. If he made a theory that was important because it was about real things, that would be different. He is making a fun perspective on a fictional game that he is fully aware has flaws, and people give him angry comments. Idk anymore. No more faith in humanity

[@joshspinks9792]

MatPat: “Does it really sound like we're just some failed experiment cast into the depths of this world?” The Pale King: Yes...

[@Tech_Marauder]

The entire game: Yes...

[@claeab255]

@@Tech_Marauder the entire hollow knight community: YES

[@rollingkirby]

The entirety of people who actually paid attention to the game:Yes...

[@mr.scoots5602]

*Father how could you-*

[@darkbobblackpants9747]

Everyone that got to the abyss: *YES*

[@stephenorn8332]

this theory: exists S E V E R A L P E O P L E A R E T Y P I N G

[@AQ-101]

How does this have no replies?

[@xaundes4681]

ye why?

[@frostz9571]

Yeh

[@stephenorn8332]

well now it does :)

[@artciecraft8197]

I was writing a theroy

[@hollowrat7913]

MatPat: makes a theory about this game The HK community: You are not a fool, you are the entire colosseum.

[@MasterIsabelle]

Ah yes

[@wer__]

stolen but *yes*

[@CyanicCore]

Best variation right here

[@stephaniel3998]

The video recommended to me next is “debunking matpad’s theory video”

[@gigachadus1546]

I get that reference

[@felixhaberbosch6765]

The ending where the knight and hornet are trapped within the Black egg temple is litterally called : sealed siblings. Refering to the fact that both hornet and the knight are children of the pale King.

[@0kr4m]

and thk

[@ferret9263]

love the HK pfp!

[@Azriel_MR]

@@slimy1552 no HK pfp

[@snapppyturtle4412]

The Knight being his "child" could also just be the continuation of the Pale King's past life. The Knight was born from the Pale King whether it was the reincarnation or him as a whole different person. The Knight isn't exactly the Pale King but the Pale King isn't also exactly the Wyrm.

[@abdullahxxx-mb9zz]

​@@snapppyturtle4412the hk and the pale king were in the same room i didnt get to the pale king i walked away hk is his child

[@nicholasellis3189]

Matpat: the elegy is just seconds before we see our character The entire cutscene in between: *B R U H*

[@rollingkirby]

Your pfp fits this perfectly

[@noireweiss762]

to be fair, that is a common mechanic in cinema

[@CyanicG]

it seems like he came up with a theory and just nitpicked "evidence" out of the game that "proves" it completely ignoring the overwhelming amount of evidence that contradicts what he is saying

[@nuclearbomb9483]

The hollow knight is the pale king confirmed.

[@enneidrarose9645]

@@nuclearbomb9483 (*╹▽╹*) n o

[@manuelrabuffetti]

This is in the hollow knight meme playlist and i love it

[@alfredjames4530]

This is where it belongs

[@ball_handler714]

@@alfredjames4530 and forever be

[@PaperEater_]

Hahaa

[@sircheese288]

Bruh I got this when I randomized the playlist. I was so confused xD

[@littlehawk6940]

MatPat: Even Shakespeare had to get explicit sometimes. Shakespeare: What, you egg? *he stabs him*

[@aajjjfw5755]

That meme

[@elecstorm3701]

You are a saucy boy

[@elecstorm3701]

@Logan-James Lacson _he_ _stabs_ _him_

[@AaronHolden]

Little Hawk Ok, I just beat this game. My opinions.... not worth the hype. 7/10

[@NAFProjects]

**sometimes**

[@hotbelgianwaffles3448]

Man mossbag DUMPED on poor matpat after he *Shaw* this and debunked this to death Crazy how this is such a small fan base yet the best theorist’s in the world have Studied and attempted to solve the wonderful world of hollow knight

[@purevessel123]

yee shaw

[@hotbelgianwaffles3448]

@@purevessel123 YEESHAW

[@purevessel123]

@@hotbelgianwaffles3448 y es

[@TheMafien]

Wdym "small fanbase", Hollow Knight is one of the most popular indie games out there

[@danamouyal8175]

SSSSHHHHHAAAAAAAWW

[@screech_5057]

MatPat: The Knight is the Pale King The entire HK community: *say sike right now*

[@melissabennett7899]

I mean, your not wrong

[@joseluisalmeida9484]

ikr

[@dragontv9783]

the entire HK community : *OR WE WILL THROW YOU IN DEEPNEST*

[@Antfr21]

Melissa Bennett No he’s more than wrong

[@popi5476]

mossbag's video on it made it so much better

[@nutzo4402]

MatPat: This song is hinting at there being a relationship between The Knight and The Pale King. Me: The relationship is that they're family?

[@ishthewall1915]

Nope, you can’t have relationships with someone unless you are them

[@highlander1075]

@@ishthewall1915 lol

[@Aresofthevoid]

The fact that the hollow knight, hornet and the knight are siblings really makes me uncomfortable

[@highlander1075]

@@Aresofthevoid why?

[@Aresofthevoid]

@@highlander1075 because of the ships

[@VGamingJunkieVT]

I can't believe Matt Patt would have the audacity to even entertain the possibility that The Knight could be the Pale King, the idea is simply absurd and flies in the face of simple logic. Obviously, Zote the Mighty is the reincarnation of the Pale King, who else could contain such greatness?

[@Superior423]

I think you mean Invincible, Fearless, Sensual, Mysterious, Enchanting, Vigorous, Diligent, Overwhelming, Gorgeous, Passionate, Terrifying, Beautiful, Powerful, Zote

[@portiac6097]

Zote is so strong that he in the is to strong for the hall of gods

[@Apollolikesbirds]

@Happy Magolor Yeah duh it's because Zote the Mighty IS the pale king

[@Apollolikesbirds]

@Happy Magolor Zote The Mighty does not have a dad, and please say "Zote the Mighty" instead of "zote" as he is no regular foe

[@Apollolikesbirds]

​@Happy Magolor What Zote the Mighty means is that he actually has no father and is born of pure void but still keeps that in his dialogue to make the player THINK that he is vulnerable even though he has no weaknesses. Zote the Mighty in fact knows that you are reading his mind and tests your ability to detect the truth, he even points this out with Precept forty-one "Precept Forty-One: 'Learn to Detect Lies'. When others speak, they usually lie. Scrutinise and question them relentlessly until they reveal their deceit." Only a true theorist would know this. And Also, please capitalize "Zote" and "Mighty"

[@Smugly33810]

See’s void coming out of hornet in the intro ME: MOSSBAG WE GOT A CODE 3

[@SilverChicken64]

haha i thought the same thing

[@HonkleDonkle]

When I seen this comment it had 11 likes when I clicked like it was 26

[@keerjarliduke7100]

Hornetisnotvoidhornetisnotvoid Hornetisnotvoidhornetisnotvoid Hornetisnotvoidhornetisnotvoid

[@fantos2633]

She voidn't

[@PatchworkLP]

Vornet

[@derrickdeleon9916]

The story that MatPat has theorized is honestly really heart warming and touching. This would have been a great video if not for the fact that The Knight is the Pale King’s child

[@VGamingJunkieVT]

The Knight being the Pale King would sacrifice the message behind the story, though. The Hollow Knight, his perfect vessel, failed. Meanwhile, this discarded vessel rose out of the abyss and did the impossible, and.... (spoilers) In the Dream No More path, all of those discarded vessels are working together to take the Radiance down. No one person can defeat the Radiance, but those hundreds of souls working together can.

[@SuNc-liquid]

And that in the godhome radiance and the true ending radiance you see that the knight is made is void and the shell just contains that and in the god home ending the knight is shown to be the king of void

[@fizzy69o.0]

Truee its really heartbreaking ngl :

[@sonkeschmidt2027]

The question is how identity is defined here. Isn't a child the continuation of his father? The lines get even more blurry as the pale king had another body which he left and which then died while he lived in his new form. So the knight is not exactly the pale king but the pale king isn't exactly the wyrm either. So it really comes down to how we define identity. In some sense the knight is definitely the pale king.

[@Schale.kivotos]

I have seen a manga that the mc is actually the demon king but in the entire story he called the demon child but in the end that is revealed that he is the demon king,maybe this similar to that

[@user-yx4ly2he4v]

Matpat: our knight is a reincarnation of the pale ki- mossbag: *no*

[@goobydooby1406]

Almost every other hollow knight player: no

[@goobydooby1406]

When you get far enough in the game, you’ll see that matpats theory is bullshit. You don’t even need to look into the lore to see that.

[@anonymoushuman1568]

TFS Nappa there is a part in the game where our player character and the hollow knight and pale king are in the same room

[@panthertakamaki7141]

@@anonymoushuman1568 isn't that the hollow knight himself

[@kejonp9302]

@@anonymoushuman1568 yeah, the dead pale king corpse

[@cawareyoudoin7379]

As terribly wrong as this theory is, it was what got me into Hollow Knight in the first place. So... Thanks, Matpat. Also, nice to see you acknowledge the counterargument in the comments.

[@AlmightyTimeGod]

Same here. This theory is how I discovered Hollow Knight and now it’s one of my favorite games. Thank you Matpat.

[@malikdespanie4344]

Everyone: Light=Good and Darkness=Evil Hollow Knight: Hold my dream nail.

[@Its_Vanover]

This is what I thought too, but what is too much of something? Say, too much order... Chaos and order make balance, balance is peace, therefore too much of anything is bad even something good for you in great abundancess can be bad, take water for example if you were to drink too much water, your body shuts down, thus proving that too much of anything, despite the fact that it is good for you.

[@Werradr]

True

[@jacks5256]

Although light is evil, Void isn’t the nicest of things

[@Werradr]

Too much light can blind you from the truth and too much darkness can hide the truth

[@megasean3000]

As we saw in Super Smash Bros Ultimate, too much light is evil too. It blinds and destroys. Darkness is bad too, but a controlled amount of darkness can be good. Only when there's a true balance between light and darkness will the universe achieve equilibrium.

[@Pl-iNK]

I love how MatPat keeps saying things like “You are royalty” and “there is a lear connection between you and the king” and all I can think is: uhhhhh.....yeah. You're his CHILD. right?

[@klrway]

Yep. You're the perfect vessel child

[@esoopthederp7672]

@@klrway hopefully, but the lady has been wrong before, and besides a senile old woman who was wrong about this exact thing before, we have no reason to think the ghost is pure

[@devlyn1816]

The pale king already reincarnated, and the knight lost his memory because he left hollow nest. This is literally confirmed, it’s literally in the beginning cutscenes, there’s no void even at howling cliffs.

[@yeethittter1285]

You also have King's Brand...

[@midastouch4456]

Considering how young hollow night and you look sameish that’s would be a possible answer. You could be…. THE HOLLOW *PRINCE*

[@jacksonandrews8714]

Additional problem with this theory: After gaining Kingsoul, you can visit the Birthplace in the Abyss, which shows a memory of YOU, the Knight, being cast into the Abyss after reaching the top and seeing the OG Hollow Knight being taken away by the Pale King, indicating that you were alive at the same time as the King

[@voidless_entity5986]

Yessss finally someone said I was about to till I sow your post

[@1179next]

It’s clear he didn’t get the “true” ending

[@voidless_entity5986]

@@1179next yea probably

[@yeezsleezmanualgang422]

me: sees hornet leaking void also me: confused screaming

[@milky3149]

@@1179next no true ending

[@theaxbowlotl]

You could easily bring up the Birthplace cutscene and say that it debunks the entire theory, but I'm gonna try harder than that. Starting with Hornet. Hornet is confirmed to be the child of Herrah the Beast, one of the 3 dreamers who sealed the Black Egg. Herrah was skeptical of the Pale King's plan, but agreed to do so, on the condition that PK gave her a child. This can be inferred through dialogue through different characters. Herrah: "Bound...for brood...for child" "...Fair bargain made..." Midwife: "A spritely thing, isn't she? Pale gift to the Nest and the Beast, and fair trade for sacrifice made." The use of Pale refers to the King. This basically confirms that Hornet is the daughter of the Pale King and Herrah. What does this have to do with the Knight? Before fighting the Hollow Knight in the Dream No More ending. should you let the Hollow Knight fling Hornet around like a 9-year-old raging on a mobile game, and kill the Hollow Knight, you get the ending Sealed Siblings, where you usurp the Hollow Knight and Hornet is sealed inside the black egg with you, becoming a dreamer. So, if you and Hornet are siblings, and Hornet is the daughter of the Pale King, this confirms that either Team Cherry took a long visit to Alabama, or you're not the Pale King, rather his child.

[@solareclipse7731]

I think the foremost is obviously the answer

[@kyleejones8902]

The lead up to sweet home Alabama was fantastic. Mad respect

[@DoubloonGoblin]

In the pinned comment he includes someone else's comment that debunks every single point.

[@zergrush_9704]

His soul could just be sucked in the body of his unborned child, rather way - why is there a moment where knight sit on the pale kings throne and strange musik start playing on background.

[@theaxbowlotl]

@@zergrush_9704 The Music is there to symbolize that the weight of the kingdom now rests on the knight. And there's no evidence in the game to prove that PK was experimenting with FNAF technology.

[@bluesleeper8677]

Video: ThE hOlLoW kNiGhT iS tHe PaLe KiNg Hornet: Are you suggesting that my half brother is my father?!

[@shom924]

Wait *wot*

[@BowlofColdSoup]

@@shom924 your profile picture just sells that feeling off perfectly.

[@matthewmatthew981]

You said "Hollow Knight where you canonically meant "The Hungry Knight". Just gettin' that out of the way.

[@bluesleeper8677]

@@matthewmatthew981 You’re right , I have sinned

[@matthewmatthew981]

@@bluesleeper8677 You are forgiven. And probably hungry. You might want to go make a sandwich.

[@sqwiddle]

Matpat: "Our knight can use souls! Which puts us apart from any other enemy!" Soul Master: "Am I a joke to you?"

[@gytuj6722]

to be fair, all of the creatures in the soul sanctum (including the soul master) were deformed from use of soul, so clearly to regular beings it isn't as easy to use

[@tyranidhive8575]

@Gytuj the snail shaman is able to give the knight vengeful spirit and he looks fine

[@gytuj6722]

@@tyranidhive8575 I said in the soul sanctum

[@mr.breadobamagames5221]

@@gytuj6722 thats called cherry picking information my man

[@aname917]

@@gytuj6722 It's because of the infection, not because of soul

[@Green-us9kf]

Poor Elderbug stuck his little hand out like "Wait don't leave me alone up here" poor little dude 10:37

[@ieatredbears5163]

I think he was waving

[@imcooliguess2989]

Or maybe the middle finger?

[@pikagirlthenolongerbeingus9288]

It was a little wave. How I think the Elderdug was thinking: Oh hi... Oh ok bye. Omg the person on top of me that killed me. 😂

[@LinktheDragonslayer]

Yeah if you listen closely, he let's out a surprised, sad "Oh!" as he reaches out. Definitely lonely guy

[@Gooblification]

I just realized that in the intro Hornet dies in the same way as the knight, so matpat effectively said HORNET IS VOI-

[@watermellonqwerty9252]

I had to end them before they could finish the cursed sentence

[@pako8978]

@@watermellonqwerty9252 thanks

[@obsessionsofthevoid]

@@watermellonqwerty9252 I thank you for your service

[@icypenguin5159]

Hornet is at your door

[@BostonLinguini]

@@watermellonqwerty9252 Thank you

[@The_Wallflower]

“Brutally difficult bosses” *Shows vengefly king* Funny! How, funny...

[@Poseidon-oz9pg]

Just picture the watcher knights

[@iargueforfun6957]

Just getting to hornet made me cry

[@iargueforfun6957]

@@gralden I got the walljumping thing then I got lost

[@jaspertilby500]

Easy two minute boss

[@almightyegglord4365]

Ancient aspid strongest boss

[@AdmiralOctopus]

I love how this video has been added to the "born of god and meme" playlist.

[@joseph1981]

oh really? lol

[@archdruidbookwalter951]

TRUE LULW

[@jjs32stepstoenlightenment37]

Oh my god

[@bluerunner1241]

XD

[@MrDel-dj1ye]

*It has been written...*

[@grimmwadder8500]

Team Cherry: Mossbag we choose you to enforce our will MatPat: You are the Pale ki- Team Cherry: well done Mossbag

[@avery-gee]

Good comment

[@epictank434]

Me: So you beat the radiance? MatPat: Yup Me: So you know how to get void heart? MatPat: Makes sense to me Me: so who is the knight? MatPat: The Pale King Me: ( Internal mossbag screeching )

[@isaiaholaru5013]

**Mantaray Man screaming intensifies** HE'S A SON OF THE KING (I think, correct me if this is wrong)

[@the_lord_of_the_frenzied_flame]

​@@isaiaholaru5013 the vessels have no gender so... IT is the CHILD of the pale king

[@Bread_TB]

​ @the_lord_of_the_frenzied_flame, THANK YOU! it bugged me (pun VERY much intended) the way MatPat kept calling the hollow knight his SON.

[@Mccarty_67]

This is corny dude..

[@ThenewTchannel]

I'm afraid that there's one crucial factor you failed to incorporate, one of the most important characters in the entire game: Hornet. Should you choose to absorb the infection after she attempts to hold down the Hollow Knight, both you, the Knight, and she are trapped. The name for this ending is "Sealed Siblings", automatically confirming that the Knight and Hornet are siblings. And where else do you hear that name than with the souls left in the Abyss, the Pale King's children who died in the experiments. To add on to this, at the end of the true ending, Hornet sees the Knight's shell broken in two. He's gone, either dead or part of the Void. There is no one left to watch over Hallownest. No one except Hornet, the last surviving heir to the Pale King. And sure enough, the upcoming sequel focuses entirely on Hornet

[@leviathan9626]

Little Devil this comment doesn’t have as many likes as it deserves

[@FiendEnder]

Except Ghost is genderless, like all the other vessels, hints why Hornet is called the “gendered child”.

[@shovelknightmaster4657]

Or it means that the knight and the hollow knight were siblings and hornet was just sort of there

[@smolfurryakakarlaohok1002]

Shovel Knight Master n o. The knight and Hornet are siblings cause Hornet was the child of the Pale King and one of the sacrificed pales.

[@senko-san5095]

Silksong

[@sjh5465]

Matpat: The Secret Identity of Hollow Knight's Hero Mossbag: Oh? You're approaching me?

[@genoaguirre9745]

JoJo references are the best references

[@Tonberry999]

@@genoaguirre9745 you are goddamn right.

[@AllGlassEmpty]

I can't make theories without getting closer Hoho, then come close as you'd like

[@kloof5988]

Yeah moss bag kinda did this already

[@brennanruiz1803]

IS THAT *laugh* A MUTHAFUCKIN’ *w h e e z e* JOJO’S REFERENCE?!?!?1?

[@goatgang6461]

This theory: *exists* Everyone ever: *you are not just grimm, you are the entire troupe*

[@Idknomore2]

I love this

[@noizepusher7594]

You are not a fool, you are the entire colosseum.

[@Omniflorent]

@@noizepusher7594 I came to this comment to say that

[@Omniflorent]

@@noizepusher7594 respect

[@ghostmcghost3768]

Both Ace's and Goat's insults are gold.

[@rubixclockpog]

The dialogue when npcs mistake you for the king comes from the king's brand

[@zephyr1331]

Well, they do technically do that even if you don’t have the brand.

[@arnaskomka4625]

So The bugs under my bed are actually a kingdom that can bend time and control The void

[@turtle9394]

Yes

[@bigmonkeyman45]

Don't let the bed bugs consume your soul

[@Merennulli]

You need to make a preemptive strike before they figure out time travel.

[@k-topgaming7498]

I have whole nation under mine😂

[@CattoEggs]

Damn.

[@BraveLilToasty]

The entirety Hollownest: "You are the child of the pale king, you are the vessel. You are born of god and void." Matpat: "I'm gonna pretend I didn't see that."

[@originalname5598]

*Tru dat*

[@jacobgraves4672]

Child could be metaphor meaning you decended from him or are the follow up to him?

[@ed_the3rd917]

This is amazing to point out, but if we're going with the theory the "you are the child of the pale king" could just be a reference to the fact he was (by this theory) MADE by the King to later be the King. Like a prince or a child of the king, the vessel could also apply there. And he was (from this theory) "born" from a "god" (the king) and was really born from the destruction of the god that stole his son. And was also made/found in the void or something that represents it! So by the theory those lines don't really contradic what mat was saying but it doesn't add on anything we know! I really hope that makes sense/helps 🙏

[@zotethemighty4712]

@@ed_the3rd917 IT IS NOT A THEORY! THERE ARE MANY MENTIONS OF THE KNIGHT BEING HIS CHILD! THE KNIGHT ALSO IS LITERALLY *ON SCREEN* RIGHT NEXT TO THE KNIGHT! HORNET REFERS TO IT AS HER SIBLING!

[@leif4698]

@@zotethemighty4712 jeez, Zote, calm down. This just proves how annoying you are

[@luxblitzar]

this theory is the primal aspid to this fandom

[@mgiselaf2182]

You're saying we want it vanished from existance? Not that much, I mean...

[@-bebwnlasnaga-]

You're saying it hits us once and we delete it from existence?

[@ahomestucker]

yeah, it is pain incarnate

[@axolotlinabucket1287]

the fandom is the fire aspid to matpat

[@warriorking0694]

True

[@hankthefishtank8285]

The worst part is that the beginning implies he thinks hornet is void

[@jakubjilek7499]

"Though our strength is born of similar source, that part of you, that crucial emptiness, I do not share."

[@WalkThrough_101]

MatPat: The Knight is the Pale King. The entire HK community: You are not a clown, you are the entire circus.

[@TheGrimReapTM]

So basically The Grimm troupe? :D

[@jackschoellkopf5664]

I’m sold on Matpat’s theory

[@dhanalakshmiilango3038]

@@jackschoellkopf5664 visit mossbags video on this it clearly debunks matpats theory

[@lordradiance2530]

Angie has seen some stuff. I want more lore on the grimm troupe. I feel like its the least clear higher being with grimm being the only character related to nightmares and the nightmare realm. It would make sense for the grimm troupe to be in silksong because the grimm troupe comes to any place that calls them

[@jeffwade3086]

It’s because the knight is the shade lord

[@julianburchard6049]

"Skills reserved for the godlike beings" The entire soul sanctum wants to know your location

[@utternonsense1998]

@@dragonairdragon6173 I think they could, but wanted a PURE focus. As in the focus they used wasn't quite enough to achieve immortality. (probably the healing mechanic in the game?)

[@benjaminfricke4791]

The Snail Shamans would also like to protest that statement.

[@egg1899]

@@dragonairdragon6173 One of the lore tablets outright STATES that they are seeking a "Pure focus". Not "Focus".

[@nabi7701]

The snail shamans and the Pure Vessel can as well. And there's no indication that the Snail Shamans are higher beings. Plus if that's proof of the Ghost being the Pale king then I guess so is the Hollow Knight

[@Mr_Man789]

A point I would like to make is that in the embrace the void ending the knight turns into a literal void god. But the pale king was originally a wyrm and no amount of research and experimenting would be able to have this effect

[@luglitch]

Well the knight is biologicaly the son of the white lady and the pale king, the king added void to the vessels before they born (in the eggs) so the vessel have the power of two higher beings (white lady and pale king) + void, he is much more powerfull than the pale king

[@nuclearbomb9483]

@@rasmunaawangnik9397 Yes, but it can't just steal an already living body.

[@ricardobr1493]

@@nuclearbomb9483 dead*

[@Andrew-kt6xg]

You know this theory is impossible because during the game you see a memory of you hanging on a ledge and the pale king with the hollow knight walk away from you

[@Combos_Animator]

Even if the theory is wrong (the pinned comment explained it) I think this cutscene is just a memory because the hollow knight is trapped in the egg and...grown up Maybe I am making some mistakes here Because if the hollow knight is older than the knight wy would they make more vessels after finding the perfect one I haven't played th full game so..

[@Kevin_drinks_Lead]

I get what you mean, but that's most likely a symbolic scene.

[@MrWhatdafuBOOM]

But the player character isn't specifically part of that memory, we're watching them as they see the memory.

[@gummybear8679]

This is nice theory, but it does not hold ground for a few reasons: First and foremost, we can see the exact moment when our knight is left to fall in the abyss by both the newly born hollow knight and the pale king himself. This happens when dream-nailing the egg from which our knight is supposed to have hatched. At the same time it is the only surface in which we can see our reflection in the game and we could also say that we dream-nailed ourselves in order to remember that scene. As such it can be said that one knight was not created after another, our knight was not raised in the palace and so, the crib in the white palace belongs to the first knight. If i remember correctly White Lady said that she was the one that raised him, with the Pale King being his mentor. (All vessles are children of the king and lady, thanks The Gsp, i forgot about that) Another argument against this theory is that we are not actually the Pale King, we just took his brand. With the brand alone you can open the great door in the Ancient Basin. In the White Palace the servants may bow down simply because, as the brand`s description says "it marks the bearer as a king". At the same time, that piece of dialogue of the White Lady about the Pale King happens only when you wear the king`s soul charm. She could say that because she feels some of the kings presence through the charm. (the cut dialogues mentioned are also meant to be for when you dream-nail while having the brand/kingsoul, as pointed by Technic G4meplays, thanks) A third argument is that soul is essence that can be harnessed not only by god-like creatures like Radiance. Normal bugs can harness and control soul too, for example Soul Master and his disciples who had a whole wing of the city dedicated for the study and mastery of soul, thinking soul was the key to seal the Radiance, or the shamans from whom we get all our spells. Some semblance of such magic could have been used to seal the chains around the Hollow Knight and then to finally seal the Black Egg with the help of the dreamers. Our mastery of soul is sluggish. As a hollow vessel we absorbed most of the knowledge required to use our spells either from the shamans or from the Soul Master. This proves that the only ability that we naturally posses is the focus. In Godmaster DLC when we fight the Hollow Knight in his prime, we get to see his mastery of soul which is way better then ours because of his training including his version of focus. As such we can say that all bugs and vessels have the inborn ability to harness soul and that the soul focus that we learn in the tutorial is a vessel specific ability because no other soul-mastering being can use it. (i used more space this time ^^ )

[@jedrzejkoszewski4342]

Use space bar.

[@thegsp]

Alsoooooo vessels are children of king and white lady. Two higher beings. I think that also makes them royality (why guys bow down in white palace) and why they have some power over soul

[@migs192]

Hmmm..... I really need to finish the game. Cursed time constraints!!!

[@hoodieguy2151]

...

[@paladin_2164]

Thank you! I totally agree!

[@daddybgoode]

Matpat: mossbag didn’t give us a lot. mossbag: I have cover most part of the game, and some of silksong.

[@mekullag]

he said the guy made an excellent 45min video and still didn‘t cover everything. But yeah, why let an honest representation of the video disturb the circlejerk

[@Hdjskskd]

@@mekullag But he literally covered everything. From the first Time the Wyrm came to the failure of the Hollow Knight... So... he did cover everything. *Matpat just didn't actually watch it*

[@get_dumked_on935]

Pale king: **has over like 10 million vessel kids** Matpat: well he’s you

[@sheepmaster_cycy5386]

About 1,286,400 to 1,612,500

[@mrfrog0913]

The next game isn't going to be silksong it's going to be The Knight goes to prison for child abuse, oh yeah also the Knight is the Pale King I can't wait for that game.

[@HollowTheCool]

I kinda want MatPat to make a new Hollow Knight theory after learning his mistakes with this one

[@יהונתןשרב]

Maybe smth about the grimm troupe

[@susanacampana1405]

1- The Pure Vessel (past Hollow Knight) also uses the focus ability to attack. 2- You literally turn into the king as the king's brand is in your possesion, which would make the impression of you being the Pale King.

[@mateuszsikorski7706]

This exactly. The king's brand is also why the bugs bow to you in the White Palace because it's description is literally: "Marks the bearer as King."

[@yaronsinger7271]

Anternal amillia relizes you aren't the king.

[@pasty609]

I thought you could get to the white lady without the king's brand though? Does she still say you're similar to the king?

[@Scuttclips]

Pasty Tie the dialogue is unlocked with the brand

[@Scuttclips]

Yes. And the reason you can possess the brand is probably because it is your birthright!

[@DementedDuskull]

Mossbag: "Game Theory: ZOTE is THE PALE KING?!?" MatPat: "Game Theory: THE KNIGHT is THE PALE KING?!?" mossbag was so frickin close to predicting the eventual theory.

[@rodriartra9396]

But are Ari and William void?

[@TrickArrow]

I know right XD

[@senorpepper7388]

Wasn't that a joke? I thought he was kidding

[@DementedDuskull]

senor pepper He was poking fun at how, if Matpat were to discover this game, he would probably make a really nonsensical theory about it that doesn't fit into anything. And he was right because that did happen.

[@andresbaute8605]

It really is crazy how close he was to calling Matpat out exactly

[@shevrett2658]

Mossbag: Tweets about matpat’s hollow knight video Matpat: Why do I hear boss music?

[@weaver7683]

Sad Cat *primal aspid theme plays*

[@utternonsense1998]

A B S O L U T E L O R E K E E P E R

[@LucyWest370]

It is a game show, of course there would be boss music

[@ne0space]

**slow zote theme plays**

[@madengineerkyouma]

@@ne0space Who summons me?

[@meh-o1n]

Mat didn’t unmask the little ghost, he unmasked his inability to do basic thought

[@ilovecodemonkeys]

Dunkey recommended this game genuinely and that sold it for me The game was the best. It’s level progression was god tier

[@josephfavor7419]

ilovecodemonkeys same

[@jjs32stepstoenlightenment37]

Then this abomination is here. Let’s try not to stare at it.

[@jacksond7956]

I mean, the soul master uses soul too, but he isn’t a higher being... Also, the pale lady says the knight reminds him of the wyrm... have you never heard someone say that you remind them of your father/mother??? The pale lady also straight out says that the knight is her son...

[@starthing1255]

Well, not son. But that's the idea.

[@mathiasguichard2974]

@@starthing1255 i think the word she used was "my spawn"

[@kaidensmith2770]

That still wouldn't change the fact if her exact words were my spawn in that context it still relates to them being the child or creation of the Divine lady Btw i dont know her name dont roast me

[@Algarath]

She is also blind.

[@heckrum]

oR dAuGhTeRrRrRr...

[@bryanurbay1208]

“You are playing as the Pale Ki-“ *Mossbag* has entered the chat

[@noahcooling1549]

Precept 45 “One thing is not another”

[@madengineerkyouma]

Most underrated comment in the history of underrated comments.

[@inkiidonut]

my god lmaoo

[@stygianskies4776]

Profile pic checks out

[@QuokkaWaka]

The Grey Prince strikes again

[@hellpwnage6665]

Where's the other 87 precepts?

[@AnimatingGoatGirl]

MatPat: -You eight legged freaks. Me!: Something's not right. I believe the correct term is *Creepy Crawly Death Dealers*

[@somethingwithcheese]

Or gods

[@edoardofedele8549]

Lol a senders sides reference

[@brokenwingsofthenephilim8927]

I see that Sanders Sides reference

[@katiehilbert2815]

It's The Great Spider Threat of 2019 😂😂😂

[@erikreynoso3904]

Hey it’s a fellow guy/gal/nonbinary pal

[@MrDrProfessor4]

The game clearly considers the Knight to be the Pale King's son, though that might just be an interpretation of their connection. On three separate occasions (one of them the name of an achievement) Hornet and the Knight are referred to as siblings.

[@TailsDollIncorporeider]

The vessels come from eggs made by the White Lady and The Pale King. Hornet is the daughter of The Pale King and The Beast. So, yeah, kind of half brothers.

[@captnBill_]

the main difference is that Vessels are made of void and therefore able to focus soul, and Hornet is not

[@Nortrodamas]

So could the king place his soul into his son's body making it both the father and the son?

[@rodriartra9396]

@@Nortrodamas maybe but then he wouldn't absorb the radiance

[@arlom5132]

So the Knight is Jesus?

[@thepotatolizerd33]

I like that for “brutally difficult bosses” he displayed the Vengefly King 😂

[@TheWiza]

So wait. To answer the question on how the Knight got out of the Abyss in the first place is simple. He probably just forgot to use a bench, quit the game and spawned outside the map.

[@alexpapunasvili1488]

This hit near home

[@saskiaviking9447]

Your sir are correct there are indeed no benches in the Abyss therefore the Knight respawns at the starting area.

[@overpricedaluminum6585]

Genius. You should be in harvard

[@quetzal6293]

wHY YOU-

[@sirpineapple2486]

11:27 "During one of your interactions..." It's BECAUSE you have the completed Kingsoul charm, and since the Pale King was the only one to have the other piece, THAT'S what she was sensing.

[@petavaldman2150]

Royal retainers also bow because of it...

[@dryptosaurus]

Can confirm, that dialogue only happens if you have the Kingsoul, which is a fragment of Pale King (or at least taken from his corpse)

[@petavaldman2150]

@@dryptosaurus It also marks you as the NEW king

[@TimeturnerJ]

MatPat, probably: I'm just saying, we've never seen The Pale King and The Knight in the same room together! Literally everyone else: Uhh, this is awkward, but actually--

[@vee5496]

path of pain: am i a joke to you

[@hubrisnestoris1330]

@@vee5496 isn't that of the hollow knight and the pale king?

[@vee5496]

@@hubrisnestoris1330 oh yeah sorry, i was talking about when we get the other half of the kingsoul charm

[@jaredpearson5248]

Wow these comments are recent

[@jaredpearson5248]

😀

[@MimikyuHatGuy]

“He is royalty” So are all of the other vessels

[@IncineRand]

~MatPat makes Hollow Knight video~ *MOSSBAG AND SUPERFORGE WOULD LIKE TO KNOW YOUR LOCATION*

[@nickiannetta7675]

RandysRage yup

[@glossygamer7283]

you forgot reylea

[@ChaseGynko]

kinda weird to mention Superforge since he spreads so much wrong stuff about the lore

[@jacklattimore5966]

@@nickiannetta7675 he even referenced mossbag, but its like he watched it on mute and just un muted every 5 minutes

[@jjs32stepstoenlightenment37]

RandysRage he even put in desc.

[@hero8359]

Matpat: The Pale King is The Knight Mossbag: *ahem*

[@nicolasinvernizzi6140]

i think mossbag video about it also has pretty big holes.

[@gameforge7035]

Lolol

[@ToastedChaos]

I do think we should still just let mossbag do all the lore

[@rosapaga1776]

@@nicolasinvernizzi6140 im sure mossbag is gonna make a "response" video

[@jemican4500]

@@rosapaga1776 yep with a vidoe or not

[@kitchencrab7952]

I love how you can disprove the entire theory by a single line of dialogue or cutscene

[@Frost87000]

It shows how connected the game

[@enter_the_pain5762]

I mean, you literally walk up to the pale king's corpse in the white palace.

[@yackus716]

@@enter_the_pain5762 I mean, the wyrm’s body was still present even as the pale king was alive, but yeah this theory is wrong lmao

[@demutrudu6106]

@Soldier [TF2] It's important to note that his team is fine. One of his editors I know has his own KZbin channel, and he's a great guy.

[@Chujoi0]

@@enter_the_pain5762 in a cutscene after you approach the black egg, you literally see the Pale King and the Knight in he same room

[@Max2478]

All of the dialogue referring to the knight having a "regal bearing" and the king's devouts bowing to the knight all occur after the knight has been branded by the King's mark. And the knight is still a prince.

[@strato8147]

*the knight is the pale king* The entire fandom: *W H E E Z E*

[@Mas-cm6cy]

What can i say. It is kinda hard to make a thiriy and cherry pick (i can't spool) on a game with this much lore and not expect the community to get mad

[@kuroser353]

"Only higher beings can use soul" Soul Masters. You forgot about the entire tower of souls

[@mrfrog0913]

MatPat: Clearly the Pale King is also the Soul masters

[@mrfrog0913]

@HellHeater Snail shamans: hey I'm here for the meeting ,you know the one we're debunking matpats entire theory. Edit spelling

[@AwesomeGuy123]

“You are not just a soul, you are the whole sanctum.

[@mrfrog0913]

Isn't the soul master only the boss, aren't the enemys soul scholars, soul aprentices or somthing?

[@AwesomeGuy123]

@@mrfrog0913 l said soul, not soul MASTER

[@awesomefox555]

This theory is ultimately incorrect from what I’ve learned after playing the game but hey, this theory introduced me to one of my favourite games of all time, thanks matpat.

[@theshortestshirt6598]

Yeah same

[@ChainsawSeesaw]

I still like watching game/film/food theory even tho some of them are ultimately incorrect. Mat has introduced some of my favorite games and movies to me so I can't be too mad when he messes up.

[@freddysmalls6]

S A M E

[@lintanglazahra8715]

Its Matpat's theory UvU

[@fefferen]

Abyss Climb Cutscene: Exists Matpat: *Erases Pale King*

[@erin982]

"Hallownest shall recognize a new king" "The kingdom's gates are open to you" King's Brand text upon adquiring it. This basically means that NPCs like the retainers recognizing you as king is because of the Brand, not because you're the Pale King

[@hazzy5714]

i was thinking about this while watching the video

[@tireddipstick1661]

What if he's another of the pale kings son, and that's why it says son at the end and why he only gets the Kings brand after the pale king dies

[@DementedDuskull]

s_o_m_e_w_e_i_r_d_o It's confirmed that the Pale King is the father of The Hollow Knight, the Knight, and all of the other vessels.

[@erin982]

@@tireddipstick1661 Yeah, our character is almost certainly a "son" (failed vessel) of the Pale King. When you get the Void Heart, it shows a little cutscene that really shows

[@manguy01]

Also, you literally acquire the King's Soul...

[@ΚωνσταντινοςΑλιραι]

Only one major problem: when the knight accesses his memories through the black egg, we see that the king was still alive when the knight was discarded, and they even both occupied the same space for some time. So for both of them to be sentient at the same time this means they can't be the same person

[@MistressNebula]

we might just be an intruder in our own memory. we don't know how dreams work exactly

[@breyanpeterson1134]

Thank you! I was waiting the whole episode to see how he explained that

[@yanchukcha9748]

Vessels aren't sentient beings by definition?

[@MSalerno801]

​@@yanchukcha9748They are, actually. remember, the vessels were discarded because they had too much thought, thus being sentient.

[@gorila2443]

i was about to comment that-

[@OwOstrich]

when i first watched this i was like "huh, kewl" but then i actually played the game and was like "matpat, how did you ever even think this"

[@catsarecool7247]

I was the exact same. when I watched this I only just reached the city of tears. After I got about same more ways through and started readying up on lore I was like... Yeah sorry but you're wrong this time

[@catsarecool7247]

@@xxswagmastermike_7kxx568 he is actually one of the failed experiments. Except actually a successful one.

[@Nim...]

@@catsarecool7247 Or maybe the king used a part of himself (like a piece of his soul?) to create a successful hollow being. Cause those bug at the palace DO in fact bow down so there should be some meaning there. I'm still not half way through the game but Mats theory is so sad and beautiful and i really with for it to be true.

[@weaselstew3572]

@@Nim... What I got out of it was that yes we are the hollow knight.... or at least A hollow knight. I think the theory might be correct in a way, if not a literal reincarnation of the king, at least a symbolic one...also...bugs...metamorphosis. the Hollow Knight at the end of the game looks like a mature final form of the knight we play as, or maybe its the middle transformation toward something greater I don't know to be honest.

[@catsarecool7247]

@@Nim... Go check out moss bag's video "Debunking a mat pat theory". He is a hollow knight lore you-tuber that gives a terrific debunk. Not to hate on mat or anything he respects the theory and some of his points. But this theory has so many problems in the lore.

[@hourglass-pastor]

In the abyss, hornet single handedly debunks all of this. "Though our strength comes from a similar source (soul), that crucial emptiness that you have I do not share. (Void)" This says that the knight has void in it, which the pale king doesn't. It also confirms that hornet isn't void.

[@pejuhill1]

the day that the knight is the pale king is the day that hornet is void

[@revolution_is_the_key]

Very accurate

[@PantheonofCylinders]

the day that hornet is void is the day that the world ends

[@godanibal3234]

That hornet is screen transition

[@josh_the_alien]

@@PantheonofCylinders wow ok have you heard of climate change?

[@PantheonofCylinders]

@@josh_the_alien why're you turning a joke into something about climate change

[@finn.laing.]

I was nodding along until he hit me with “we are, in fact, royalty” and then I lost all hope

[@intoxiouss]

Man, after reading that poem I saw the empty water bottle sitting on my desk, then I realized the water bottle must be the Pale King!!!

[@exio6938]

Lol

[@originalname5598]

Lol

[@midastouch4456]

You have shut down his entire theory

[@nicholasiovino7690]

Lmao

[@leif4698]

The Pale King must be Squidward! Think about it. The Pale King has eyes, and Squidward also has eyes!

[@eljefe4249]

7:15 did matpat just forget that soul sanctum existed, that area is full of soul users or former soul users that overdosed and turned into the mistakes

[@ohhello1826]

Lol, that is such an important area too. There is literally a boss called The Soul Master.

[@EternalLostsEternalHell]

How do you even forget Soul Sanctum though? It is a required area!

[@Kuu-n-koi2317]

The snail shamans also use soul and I think there's a text that says something like spiral focus or something

[@cyfour]

@@EternalLostsEternalHell not technically required to beat the game, you can use the lantern to get to crystal peak

[@Golden12500]

*Lemme tell you I'll certainly never forget it.... never ._.*

[@bigaldente299]

Matpat:The knight is the pale king The entire community: splish splash your opinion is trash

[@GabsyUnderscore]

boopity bapity your money is our property

[@osome6806]

yea the knight is the pale kings son

[@pheonixmakespoop6471]

Matpat:hay another theor- The comunity: Wonk bonk you are wrong

[@salem_spectre]

@@GabsyUnderscore hi charles

[@ishthewall1915]

That’s because this theory is so easily debunked

[@nuggiesmaster1157]

What about the cut scene of the knight watching the hollow knight and king before he falls back into the abyss

[@adriangalvanalberto4779]

Matpat: "i've played every inch of this game, lets make a theory saying the knight is a reincarnation of the pale king" Mossbag: "i'm about to end this man's whole career"

[@egg1899]

Bruh this man's Hollow Knight career ended the second or before it began, much like the vessels oddly enough.

[@caoyanivy3827]

So the bugs under my bed is a king dome and can bend time and space so that's where my soul went

[@LexButChed]

MattPat: I played Hollow Knight all the way through. Also MattPat: *forgets an entire cutscene that debunks this entire theory.*

[@miep3934]

He never even mentioned the Void heart, the Shade lord or the God seekers Kinda important details

[@lucariopikmin]

He also played Phoenix Wright, but that theory also fell apart rather easily. Him playing things might just be a theory too.

[@TheBigBrub]

@@neondarkcro697 That could be a flashback from the night being the pale king

[@ampassapera]

Ur boi have you even played the game?

[@ampassapera]

Ur boi this theory is incorrect

[@Me-zl7mu]

"It's like the Dark Souls of Story Telling" Scott : *Nervous Laugh In Animatronics*

[@danteletsrock2796]

@@Dramono YES

[@zoeyb9768]

I'm just gonna sprinkle in the fact that you can literally "go hollow" in dark souls

[@Me-zl7mu]

@@Dramono true..

[@awesom1ser264]

i can see why he finishes with "but hey that's just a theory a game theory" it immediately snaps you at least partly out of the depressive stupor you get put into with his theories that always end in the saddest way possible

[@miki-pf4um]

*MatPat makes Hollow Knight video* Oh, Mossbag is gonna have to say something about this...

[@theluckybunny8543]

lol at least he gave Mossbag some credit

[@hinoobs5304]

The Lucky Bunny yeah we have to give him that I don’t even know if this theory is true

[@MongooseKingOfTheWastelands]

@@hinoobs5304 gee, not knowing if a theory is true? Sounds like a theory to me!

[@theluckybunny8543]

@@hinoobs5304 well its just a game theory :D

[@residentfacehead3465]

r/hollowknightmemes has something to say about this.

[@someguy8233]

Come forth! Mossbag! Time for some Hollow Knight Lore!

[@LTDLetsPlays]

rusty....is very,,,,meh mossbag is the best boi

[@capncrackfiend]

@@LTDLetsPlays Mossbag is amazing, I'd like to see his response to this. His bit about Hornet being void (or rather, that she super-definitely-isn't) was great.

[@luisbautista4675]

Love mossbag tho

[@sigil4205]

A W A K E N M Y M A S T E R S

[@krzypl5959]

@@LTDLetsPlays Rusty is awesome! Don't say he's worse than Mossbag. He just isn't really the lore guy.

[@orangejuice3235]

I’m just happy HK is getting more attention before silksong releases.

[@Villfuk02]

in like 3 years

[@greyham181]

Si

[@Nihlm]

@@Villfuk02 it's already like 70% done probably, this isn't petscop 2.

[@shevrett2658]

Probably comes out in 2020. Or it comes out in 2019 and Team Cherry just doesn’t want to reveal that

[@Villfuk02]

😂😂😂😂😂😂😂 yeah, petscop 2 is like 110% done, Pyro's just teasing us

[@shonw2318]

When the game says, "Higher beings, these words are for you alone", it's referring to the player directly. we are definitely a higher being since we control what happens in the game and also because everyone in the game are bugs while we're gigantic humans in comparison.

[@theepicone8996]

MatPat: The player character is the Pale King! Everyone in the HK fandom: Exactly Wrong!

[@lfestevao]

Not everyone, because many have that feeling but know there is no proof. I bet they came here expecting gold but found an useless tram

[@jkid391]

lfestevao There is the cutscene to get the void heart, where The Knight literally sees the Pale King walk away with The Hollow Knight. That is a memory from The Knight, so it can’t be king as the memory shows that The Knight existed when the Pale King was still alive.

[@kiyanaslani2351]

@@jkid391 Genuine question...how do we know it's a memory of the knight and not just one from the Pale King?

[@shevrett2658]

Little Greebes it’s from you pov. You control the knight during it. Also you see it after dream nailing yourself by using the reflection in your egg

[@jev_the_jaded]

Sad Cat gottem

[@ASquared544]

Matt: _Covers Hollow Knight_ r/HollowKnightMemes: *It's showtime*

[@theweevilman]

Ha ha yes

[@purkat6349]

@@theweevilman HORAAAAAA lmao

[@tykimkim]

Plus the #Lore room in the Discord Server that Matt clearly didn't consult

[@theweevilman]

@@purkat6349 heyyo!

[@juicedaddy6013]

I'm just waiting for mossbag to pull up

[@titaniumsalmon3238]

“You were supposed to destroy the Radiance, not become it!”

[@trenth3492]

now you have become the very thing you swore to destroy

[@chara2038]

I HATE YOOOOH

[@ugurefetastan137]

@@trenth3492 its over blue i have the high ground

[@LinktheDragonslayer]

@@chara2038 SHEES MAH QUEEN

[@Ryder35545]

The game makes the radiance so high and powerful, when you realize you could just accidentally step on it and it would immidietly die 💀

[@kookeekittee3342]

When he said we were playing as the pale king I audibly laughed.

[@matthewking712]

You're not just a fool, you're the entire colosseum. Edit: I can't believe this 3.5k liked comment is my claim to fame.

[@jacobmurray2922]

Honestly this is the best comment yet

[@spookytown7963]

I see what you did there

[@greanbeans3183]

Oh my god this is the best comment ever. Thank you for making my day

[@loeiscool1606]

@BRYAR MUNCH And W.D. Gaster.

[@pauldeddens5349]

I think you roasted this man into a new reality.

[@Ebob101]

Great that this game is getting more attention, because it deserves it! Several issues with this theory though: - The Radiance was never the hive leader of all bugs, just moths. There are other more benign higher beings that the Pale King usurped as well (like Unn). The Infection is a result of the Radiance jealously spiting all bugs for forgetting their old gods. - Other bugs and parts of the world treat you like the Pale King after you get the King's Brand, and the item description refers to you as "it". The entire point of the game is that you are unique as a vessel; uniquely empty and unaffiliated, even if you resemble you "parents". - Bardoon is just saying that the Wyrm transformed in to the Pale King, he's talking about the past, not the most recent "death" of the Pale King, which is not confirmed as a death, just a disappearance. This idea of a new transformation is worth exploring though. - The nursery tune would confirm the Shades/Vessels as children of the Pale King, not reincarnations. - The Hollow Knight thinking "Father?" is just stating his idea that was corrupted. It's not clear that this is a thought about the player. - Raising the Knight in the palace would risk it feeling familial connections, and therefore doesn't make sense as a remedy for that same failure. - Being sent out of the kingdom does not erase memories (Quirrel leaves at some point), but does temporarily revoke sapience because the Wyrm's influence is too far. It is an interesting theory that could be correct, but the reasoning for it here is circumstantial.

[@GrimmShadowsII]

Also, and maybe it's just me but, I would shy away from using cut content as evidence. You don't know why it was cut and like you said you can't always tell the contex.For example when the line was put in this theory was right but overtime the story developed and it was no longer true so they cut the line out but it was still in the data. Cut/Deleted content can be interesting but unless you know why it was deleted it's not really useful as theory support

[@cryw1092]

There's also that whole flashback where it is clear the Pale King and the player are two different entities.

[@shellnut8224]

Also the fact that one of the endings with the main character and Hornet who is also the Pale King's daughter is called Sealed Siblings. So...

[@kanrakiddler]

The thing about THK's dialogue, is that it seems to be cut on purpose. A similar thing happened when the last DLC, Godmaster, released. It, once again, featured THK's thoughts in the code, but not visible in the game. This lead most of us to believe that while THK's mind can't be read, their lines are still canon. The theory is still wrong tho.

[@charlespense6283]

That last point is kinda wrong, since Quirrel did in fact lose his memories, only to regain them some time after returning to Hallownest. Though if the Knight were the Pale King, he should have regained his memories at some point as well.

[@alunlloyd9812]

I use this video as the example to highlight how far this channel fell

[@waltuh2412]

Most of this can be debunked by simply saying "The knight is the kings child"

[@bigwheelfromspidamahn1037]

C-HasArrived Lad's yep the pale lady says so

[@zynet_eseled]

I think that we can interpret as being that the knight, as a child of the queen and king, had no soul. Was a vessel for the king to try and reinhabit. So, in a way, we could interpret this theory to be somewhat true, albeit the idea that the 'Vessels' were failed experiments, is incorrect. They are the children of the rulers. Not experiments. The fallen souls, would be their fallen children. And while the bowing to the knight may be just interpreted as a sign of royalty, perhaps they are seeing it differently through the dream nail

[@yeahkeen2905]

Magnus&Jaexen no we can’t interpret it as that because there’s no reason to. Occam’s razor. The vessels are experiments and they are also his children, the Pale King experimented on his children. It’s that simple.

[@zynet_eseled]

@@yeahkeen2905 I'm trying to state that maybe the failsafe for the pale king was that if the hollow knight fails to contain the virus, and his death is inevitable, the next child to leave the void will be used by the pale king as his new vessel. That's the short of it

[@waltuh2412]

@@zynet_eseled except for the fact that other vessels have left the abyss far before our knight did

[@ProjectSudoku]

I am watching this video on a playlist titled, "Born of God and meme." Make of that what you will...

[@jacks5256]

Irony

[@TheTrueXaver]

Best part: it wasn’t removed

[@litewavegames3967]

It's because its such a bad theory that its become a meme

[@cubeofmeat4982]

It’s so bad it’s funny

[@AbsoluteDark]

Dude same here lolz

[@brainrot8802]

Hollow Knight is literally my favorite game right now. The Silksong game is going to be so great!

[@janniuwu6514]

Same

[@pokkenwolf5985]

Definitely!!!

[@Saber23]

silksong could be a black screen and i would buy it

[@eucalypi]

Same here! I'm replaying Hollow Knight for a 4th time mainly because of it

[@brodyferencak4177]

YESS!

[@Beanos_101]

Hollow knight is my single favorite game right now and even though I have beaten it, I am still not bored of it 😂

[@huntervaught4737]

First off, I love that you covered this game because it deserves as much coverage as possible, however, this is just not true. None of the evidence is concrete especially when compared to the mossbag video that you referenced at the beginning (again, awesome for shouting out people in the community, that's super cool and you didn't have to do that). Much of the evidence presented in this video is circumstantial and can be explained away, such as the white lady saying she feels like she's in her husband's presence only after you aquire the kingsoul, she doesn't say that until then. You are right in saying that much of the dialogue seems to draw parallels between the Pale King and the Knight because there is a connection, but he is just his child, not his reincarnation. These parallels discussed are there for a purpose, not to establish the Knight as the Pale King, but something better, a better version of the Pale King who can correct his shortcomings. The theory is such a cool idea, but the Knight is simply another vessel abandoned in the Abyss and that's ok. This game already has so many twists and depth in it's lore I can appreciate that the main character is simply another abandoned Knight.

[@tallmyster1323]

Ladies and Gentlemen, the most polite way to say no to a MatPat Theory. Unlike the rest of the fanbase. Heathens. xD

[@cecefernandes5657]

This is the most kind and polite disagreement to a theory and it is honestly refreshing💗

[@residentfacehead3465]

@agenttim5o i mean you are right with it just being a theory, but mats theory is outright dissproved by the birthplace cutscene from the game.

[@linear1224]

Good on you mate for being a good sport, we need more people like you.

[@RelicPerez]

TLDR

[@jeanschyso]

Me - at the beginning: "Yaaasss a HK theory I have so much respect for that game!" Me- after the halfway mark: "well at least it's entertaining"

[@gus7.6512]

when game theory releases a follow up: hk community: aww s***, here we go again

[@lukrio99990]

:/ sad but true

[@knightswife]

everyone: this theory has so many holes in it. me: THE INTRO.. *ITS DIFFERENT???*

[@Soul_Twister]

Hornet bursts into void in the intro 0/10

[@lemphl]

why is it worse timed on the music than the previous one though?

[@rockmanTNT]

Nugget theroy

[@diesuppe4452]

Imo the old one was way better

[@AlyOopsieDaisy]

Literally me