GBW 1993 Part 1

In May 1993 I ventured to Wisconsin to record the Fox River Valley and Green Bay & Western before they were absorbed into Wisconsin Central. It turned out to be a rather gloomy trip, with the beginnings of the record rainfall that caused flooding throughout the Mississippi valley. Part 1 covers the Green Bay area, a chase of numbers 1 and 2 from Wis. Rapids to East Winona and back, and locals out of Wisconsin Rapids to Plover and Stevens Point.

[@Bhil3]

Oh the memories that brings back. I grew up in Green Bay and lived there until 1988. Always fascinated by trains as a child. The sound of those Alco's accelerating still so vivid in my memories.

[@MikeG42]

Excellent video Fmnut , this is another great fallen flag railroad that I miss from the 80's and 90's. I always loved the red Alco's Green Bay & Western ran along with the freight's which consisted of many 50ft boxcars , that Rock Island boxcar in this video was a nice one. The footage of those Alco units smoking was awesome ! Well done 😊👍

[@fmnut]

Thanks for your comments.

[@royscreen61]

Awesome Alco action!! Thanks for putting it on here

[@seaboardsystem8804]

glad you goy it on film!!! 🤩🤩

[@kraigkasten]

great video, especially for someone who didnt get to enjoy the GBW when he was younger. I did get to catch some of their trains in Wisconsin Rapids on a family trip there. thanks for publishing!

[@kurtkauffman4326]

Thanks a lot for posting.I'm also a former GB Resident.I enjoyed seeing much of their Trains before it went history.

[@iusetano]

Awesome!!!!! Those Alco's sound great. Excellent video.

[@steveg2509]

It’s sad to see them so dirty. I suppose once they knew they were getting bought out, it didn’t matter. I left in 1992. They used to keep them reasonably clean in Green Bay.

[@fmnut]

Yes, I had a nice chat with the Conductor of #1 while they were switching at New London. He said morale was really low.

[@SteveTheFazeman]

Great filming of GBW going about its business.

[@sled57]

Nice memories of GBW. I spent a small amount of time in the Norwood shops in the early 90's as a supplier to the shop, and knew a couple of the employees. Good people there. The locomotive from 2:35 to 5:03 was from James River. Fort Howard Alco (mostly) S-2 locomotives were orange, and were labeled (Department) 63-xxx below the window and Fort Howard Paper on the side.

[@fmnut]

@sled57 my bad on the S6, thx for the clarification.

[@BudmanPackfan]

Great video to capture and document a fine railroad. One factual ID correction. The S6 shown starting at 2:38 is actually James River Paper at the Day Street Mill. Fort Howard and James River didn't merge until 1997. Fort Howard in 1993 only had one mill in Green Bay, located at 1919 Broadway.

[@fmnut]

Thanks for the correction.

[@wisconsinandnorthwesternra8381]

I believe that locomotive is currently at the NRM painted as gbw 106

[@pauljones2762]

308 still exists at Monticello Railroad Museum, needs a lot of TLC,but is functional.

[@RockyRailroadProductions_B0SS]

I love that RS3's modified short nose!

[@terrywitkowski9486]

So do I.

[@kurtkauffman4326]

Originally built as a High Hood.Later rebuilt in the mid 70's.

[@kanechrist4213]

13:26 C424 No.322(middle unit) survives today at the Reading Company Technical and Historical Society, as it was originally built as Reading 5204. Last I checked it's still GBW red but with 'RDG' patched in place as they will eventually return it to Reading yellow/green. You may already know about this fmnut, but I felt like I needed to bring it up, as I have a soft spot for seeing preserved equipment in revenue service.

[@fmnut]

See my videos "RCTHS Alcos II" and "RCTHS Diesels on the BM&R II" for 322 working in preservation. Thanks for watching.

[@dfiddleb]

Excellent footage! Thanks for sharin'! :)

[@popps2502]

Great job injoyed watching.

[@progx8679]

We should have never lost the GBW !

[@terrywitkowski6937]

me too. I grew up in stevens point and would wait for hrs waiting for those 'red-devils' to come over the hill from the 'lower mills' to the 'upper mills' (consolidated papers).

[@alexandergrube6437]

Agreed

[@po9318]

AMEN to that!!!

[@scoobycarr5558]

@one who knows Now thanks to Wisconsin Central, CN now has a monopoly in Wisconsin.

[@scoobycarr5558]

@one who knows Okeedokee thanks for the info

[@eeclass20]

Nice to see the 323 in action, anyone know it's current whereabouts? I know it went to IAIS as 850 then sold and lettered GLLX 850 and used as a plant switcher in Bluffton IN but no recent pictures anywhere since around 2009.

[@andrew239781]

Love the green bay western alcos

[@kurtkauffman4326]

Been around since Dieselized.

[@trainandtruckmodeler786]

When I got my license my father was working for Burlington northern.....he used to tell me go get pictures of the GBW, EJ&E, CC&P, AND BAR.....I never did ...although I worked for CC that's all I can say.

[@scoobycarr5558]

I think what did in the GBW was the loss of the Lake Michigan Carferries. I sincerely think the GBW never recovered from that debacle.

[@ONEWHOKNOWS.]

True, as well losing business to WC by being underbid and 2 man nonunion crew = cheaper labor. CNW selling Green Bay was a debacle, too. Dumb decision over a labor dispute (CNW trying to get rid of 4 man crews and cabooses).

[@kurtkauffman4326]

Since Dieselized,GB&W has been an all Alco Short Line during its entirety.

[@alexschmollinger6576]

Why was the GBW main line abandoned and Removed???? Wisconsin Central should left the GBW alone but Greed Got in the way What's the Pont

[@fmnut]

Redundant trackage. Your comment is wishful railfan thinking.

[@douglasskaalrud6865]

Got an IRA? 401K? Stocks? Annuities? If you do then what makes you any different than shareholders of railroad stock looking for a decent return on their investment? Look in the mirror and see who is greedy.

[@trainandtruckmodeler786]

Excuse me I'm a share holder of UP and at one time BN, do you know what a dividend is???? Railways are high interest, there is not a lot of return....so for example 250.00 of my money for 1 share of UP pays me roughly 1.73 a quarter....public school taught you wrong

[@25mfd]

Pentrex has a really nice vid of the GBW. Made around the same time as this vid I think.

[@fmnut]

25mfd Dan Hadley from Pentrex was there the week after I was. I ran into him on my last day there.

[@terrywitkowski9486]

I love those C-424s

[@kurtkauffman4326]

Four of them purchased new in the early 60's.Four more were purchased secondhand in the late 70's.Making it a total of eight on the GB&W Roster.

[@StormySkyRailProductions]

Very cool videos.

[@progx8679]

I wish they washed those poor grimmy C424's now and then !!! Soap and water really don't cost that much, where did the pride go ??

[@fmnut]

this was only 3 months from the end of the GBW. The morale was low and nobody cared.

[@progx8679]

***** I know the end as near .. thats my point , shine them up walk out with your head held high. It's nice to know that many are still working for other Alco roads. : )

[@fmnut]

+Prog X Great philosophy, but it's obvious you never worked with real railroaders. While individually some might feel like you do, as a group they tend to have a collective chip on their shoulders in such situations.

[@progx8679]

***** ? Have have been around them most of my life !! My Father worked for the B&M from 1956 to 1980 he left just before Guilford took over and his Father (he died when I was 11) worked for the B&M from 1924 through the wars years to 1958. My older brother worked in Conrail for 7 years and left to go into trucking. And I have so many friends in the Boston & Maine Historical Society and RR Club ... countless members worked for the railroad and many now work for the MBTA and Pan Am Railways. And I know all about a new road like Guilford and destroying what the B&M built in over 150 yrs and changing the rules, busting the union hiring anyone to work etc. Yes there are all types of course there are but in New England where Railroading is so hard .. the B&M had no money for years but pride and grit kept it running for years with old F units, GP7.9,18 in the 60s to 70s the so new GP38's in 1973 helped the road fought of Conrail and some new GP40-2 in 1977 and in 1979 they battled out of bankruptcy and it was great then in 1982 Guilford bought the B&M,MEC and later the D&H and it was downhill from there .. but as a lifetime railfan it was nice to see three builders and the roads many colorful paint schemes for 5 yrs but mellon/Guilford closed many branches that made money !! and angered all his customers. Its better with Pan Am but now we are a class 2 road. Sorry I got long winded but its my passion since a boy but my Dad saw the change coming in the north east and told me not to get into it and he was right i am in trucking like my brother and its a very good job. Hey no hard feelings I like your road a lot of corse I only knew it from books and video. So I haven't worked with them but but I knew it from my Father each day and later my brother and friends. : ) i'm (59)

[@pkranz937]

Prog X If you were losing your job to a horseshit outfit, you'd be sore, too.

[@rogerkujawastrains]

I wish there was some narration.

[@CTTrains193]

Wait a minute THE Burlington Northern came to Green Bay?!?

[@fmnut]

BN created an intermodal hub at Green Bay to participate in the paper traffic generated there. They used the GB&W to connect their hub with their main line at Winona. That's why you see the Alcos hauling double stacks, they're BN overhead traffic. In the 80's it was rumored that BN was going to buy the GB&W from Itel just to get access to Green Bay, but it never happened.

[@CTTrains193]

@@fmnut that’s very interesting, thanks!

[@CTTrains193]

@@fmnut Where was this hub located?

[@CTTrains193]

@@fmnut I was just trying to find it on some old satellite pictures.

[@fmnut]

@@CTTrains193 The video of the 308 was taken here: 44.510334, -88.025116 under the Mason St. bridges. The diamond crossing of the CNW and GBW has since been removed. The BN Intermodal Hub was located to the southwest at: 44.507350, -88.026622 which is now an empty paved area with tracks. You can see it plainly on Google Maps sat view. The hub is around the approximate location of the old GBW station/General Offices building.

[@northernrailphotography]

GBW fans....unite!

[@Eric-un5ov]

So either way the tracks in Denmark and Maribel would have been ripped up right

[@fmnut]

Probably.

[@Eric-un5ov]

In the beginning of this video if those tracks were still in use what railroad would be running through there now

[@fmnut]

@@Eric-un5ov Canadian National

[@Eric-un5ov]

Whos idea was it to abandon Denmark to Manitowoc

[@fmnut]

@@Eric-un5ov Wisconsin Central

[@jwernhol]

15:45 a little reckless no?

[@Joe-d7m6k]

In relation to Norwood, where was MCDONALD YARD???

[@fmnut]

McDonald yard was north of Norwood at the end of the street running that connected the two. It is still there, it's the southernmost 4 tracks parallel to the ex CNW North Yard.

[@osrr6422]

What remains of the GBW today?

[@fmnut]

Green Bay to Luxemburg (Kewaunee Line) Some industrial and yard track in Green Bay New London to Manawa Plover - Wisconsin Rapids - East Winona

[@scoobycarr5558]

OS RR Mostly the west end by Stevens Point in Wisconsin is owned by CN in the present day; the East end of the line is no longer around anymore.

[@pkranz937]

Scooby Carr FMNut is right.

[@a.r.gentum6517]

I know an old head who retired from the "Green Weenie."

[@arkie74]

what model is #308?

[@fmnut]

arkie74 Alco RS 3 rebuilt with 2000 HP 12- 251 GBW called them RS20s.

[@arkie74]

yeah I googled it lol forgot that all I had to do was typ in gb&w 308. thanx anyway for the info!

[@chuckabbate5924]

@@fmnut throaty!!!

[@kurtkauffman4326]

Originally built as a High Hood & later rebuilt in the mid 70's.

[@drby0788]

where is all the street running filmed in the beginning?

[@fmnut]

+drby0788 Norwood Avenue in Green Bay

[@novastardom2689]

i honestly i would of loved to seen the GBW in action... it would of been nice instead of seeing all the black, white and red that has to go through my town... why train gods, why did GBW have to go and why didnt you just have them take over the wisconsin central instead

[@scoobycarr5558]

Nova Stardom I guess the Canucks saw gold in them Green Bay & Western especially in Packerland.

[@pkranz937]

Scooby Carr CN didn't buy GBW, Wisconsin Central did. Scabs.

[@kristoffermangila]

At the time, WC was the richer road, remember, about or after the GBW-FRVRR acquisition, WC acquired rail freight operations in the UK (English, Welsh and Scottish, since sold off and now known as DB Schenker UK)... Oh yeah and there's also Tranz Rail in NZ(now back to NZ government control I believe).

[@ZombieSlayer-dj3wb]

Let me guess the alcos thay stayed will wc until the cn take over met the same fate as the sd45s

[@fmnut]

Unfortunately you guessed wrong. WC got rid of the Alcos within a few months of the GBW takeover, long before the CN buyout. And more of them survived long term than the WC SD45s.

[@ZombieSlayer-dj3wb]

@@fmnut well good it was a good day for the alcos then

[@ZombieSlayer-dj3wb]

@@fmnut so did cn rid of all the wc sd45s then

[@fmnut]

@@ZombieSlayer-dj3wb yes.

[@jeremyamundsen537]

@@ZombieSlayer-dj3wb They lasted until 1995 I believe.