Why this Dark Era of the Jedi Order was so Corrupted and NEEDED to burn down

[@veryfitting]

"The jedi order went under a series of reforms in fear of the dark side" yet Yoda said "fear leads to the dark side" so it failed at beginning by its own definition

[@Noxidsignorantia]

Hippocracy and Jedi go hand in hand ✋

[@InventorZahran]

The Jedi Order became the very thing it sought to destroy.

[@ohg_robago8680]

The hipocracy of Jedi know no bounds, only a Jedi will kill a whole room full of people and then try to apologize for it.

[@hitandruncommentor]

Well not exactly. In kotor 2 it’s shown the Jedi becoming much more like legends Jedi, embracing emotion and connection rather than rejecting it. The problem to be blunt was Yoda. He ruled for too long and was born into a galaxy still suffering from the scars of the Sith wars. Since by the time the order needed to change yoda was already beyond question so people didn’t and yoda being of such an age didn’t see things begin to corrupt, though this was likely due in part to the line of Bane. In essence the Jedi of old failed to learn the complete lesson, to be proactive, to embrace love, to not go immediately to violence when opposed. This is why I’m legends Luke’s order is shown to be what the Jedi were meant to be.

[@jagnestormskull3178]

The Jedi CANNOT BE philosophically correct, because the foundation of Jedi philosophy is hypocrisy.

[@Fleechin]

RIP to the only guy of Yoda's species who talked normally

[@Spartan3D213]

And the one in swtor who sounded like Winnie the Pooh.

[@bloodyneptune]

_Was_ he the only one though? Or do they all talk normally and that's absolutely a choice Yoda made?

[@SuperGamefreak18]

@@bloodyneptune there's a thought that yoda loves messing with people and uses it as a way of training patience

[@arganelichens1713]

Is it something about the force that might affected Yoda species to talk weirdly 😂?

[@thargs9184]

Good Old Master Vrok

[@TetsuShima]

Kreia: *Kills the last members of the Jedi Council* Meetra: "What motive did you have to do such inhuman thing, Kreia?!" Kreia: "A simple mind like yours would never understand" *45 years ago* Kreia: "Hey, Ulic! Would you like to take a walk with me through the Enclave?" Ulic: "Thanks for your offer, Kreia. But I have to do some "Jedi stuff" with Nomi right now" Kreia: "Oh, ok. Good luck, anyway!" Ulic: "Bye" *Goes away* Kreia: "This Jedi apathy is just killing me..."

[@pocketmarcy6990]

Those are strong words coming from the person who destroyed two whole fleets with the push of a button

[@michaelandreipalon359]

Nomi's a really good witch when it comes to her looks.

[@enoughothis]

To be fair Kreia was puppeteering everyone pretty hard during the events of KOTOR 2, all for her own goals.

[@gavinsmith9871]

And in the end, she literally orchestrated her own defeat because she thought she could use the force to destroy itself.

[@michaelandreipalon359]

But what if her fall was all part of her plan? Seriously, that woman (and the same might go to Vergere as well) is still ambiguous in my own eyes.

[@gavinsmith9871]

@@michaelandreipalon359 Her plan was to destroy the Force to "free" everyone. She failed. Not achieving her goal could not be part of her plan.

[@michaelandreipalon359]

She's a really good liar. Besides, her becoming the enemy would have meant that the Exile would have had something to fight against in the very end, all while Kreia's teachings have finally succeeded in being spread upon the galaxy while the old ideas die out... that is, until the newer teachings also die out millennia later.

[@JC-zj2is]

@@gavinsmith9871 she also wanted to kill the “old” way’s of the jedi order, she wanted her old pupil’s dead, and wanted Surik to create a new jedi order with her teaching’s.. maybe her “killing the force” was a bluff so that The Exile would be forced to kill her.

[@TheRevanchrist]

As Traya stated, paraphrasing, if the council learned anything from the Great Sith War, the Mandalorian Wars and the Jedi Civil War, then they just kept learning the wrong lessons.

[@kiyanhakim384]

Shout out to that one time the jedi killed themselves off through infighting and not the sith 😂

[@paolopesare3566]

Lol, true. in Kotor 1&2 the "Sith" are actually fallen Jedi and former republic military 😂

[@kingofnorthumbria]

lmao, if ya think bout it, Obi-Wan and Luke in the first movie, kinda mimic the siths rule of two 🤣

[@starkillerab1582]

Oh well at least they didn’t eat the people they killed can’t say the same for the Sith

[@gothicpunkemo14]

@king of northumbria Not exactly. They are simply playing the roles of Master and Apprentice, in a time that there are almost no jedi left living. More circumstantial than anything. if they were mimicking the rule of two, they would have killed off all of the other Jedi.

[@gothicpunkemo14]

After all, the main difference between a jedi master/jedi knight relationship and the Sith rule of two relationship is literally that one side believes they need to murder all of their "competition" to have the strongest connection to the force.

[@inquisitorgarza312]

The First Jedi Purge was a terrible time, the Old Sith War destroyed the Jedi Homeworld, with the Mandalorians Wars being a fresh wounds to the Republic’s relationship with the Jedi, and Jedi Civil War weakening the Jedi Order. The Sith Under Darth Traya were so close in destroying the Jedi Order not with open conflict, but with bounty hunters, assassins, and dark arts and Magic’s that were so close to the destruction of the Jedi Order. In truth this was the Darkest time for the Jedi Order, and if it were not for Jedi Exile then the Jedi Order would not survive. Ironically the Jedi High Council were correct that a Dark Force was organizing a massive plan to destroy both the Republic and Jedi, and no doubt that the Sith Emperor would have enjoy the destruction of the Jedi Order three hundred years before his inevitable return to the wider Galaxy.

[@bowgamer1004]

The comment section is supposed to be full of memes

[@madisonsosa21]

Darth Traya is so interesting, and her philosophy on the Force

[@ninjadejedi]

I think he miss the part that Revanist felt right into the plans of the Sith Emperor and result in the Jedi became to weak to protect the Republic when the actual Sith came back. And the fault lied at the Republic at the begining for not fighting against the Mandalorian in the first place.

[@RoyalLegend1000]

@@bowgamer1004 yupp

[@MartinTundra]

That's all because Jedi Order were actually Dark Jedi and Jedi Code is so flawed that you must understand why Darth Vader let live the all Grey Jedi because read their code and it's proper Jedi Code. So Jedi order after Vader purge was back to its original ideas and that's why Vader has shown he is really Anakin and still believes that The Force can't be evil, and darkside or lightside is still The Force. And Dark Jedi betrayed The Force so Order of The Sith hated and despised Dark Jedi so much as traitors and liars. So purge of Jedi needed to happen and those like Ahsoka or Yoda or Kenobi were true Jedi at least according to Anakin who all together WAS The Chosen One and he actually brought the balance of the force by restoring the original ideas of Jedi Order. That's why we see him in Kenobi series as Anakin, in remastered Return of The Jedi as Anakin Force Ghost and so on. Force Ghosts don't dissolve into The Force, he later kills Snoke as Force Ghost while you think it was Kylo Ren or Rey to save them both from too powerful Dark Jedi Vampire entity. I actually believe that Anakin appeared earlier as Revan and so on. That's because we are all immortal, we just stick to the idea of material body too much. May The Force be with You.

[@crazyviking24]

This was the period (mandalorian wars) when 5 jedi masters tried to murder their apprentices and succeeded in killing 4 of them. I think that you should do a video on that part in relationship to the corruption of this period as I think one of the masters was a jedi master mostly because his mother paid off the council.

[@jeremyleonjonas7657]

Agreed. The first watch circle was hilariously removed from the orders traditions, born out fanatism, fear and trauma of Krynda and failed to grasp the often symbolic nature of force visions. But I do like the arc Lucien went through and where he ended up.

[@stardragon7893]

They were murdering Padawans before Anakin made it cool.

[@FirstNameLastName-tg3rc]

Do you really ever expect Geetsly's to do a video that honestly covers the Jedi Because if you do?

[@jamiewalsh3349]

Revan: Can you please stop the Mandalorians. Jedi Order: No. Revan: Please. Jedi: No. Revan: Please. Jedi Order: No Revan: OK you can all go suck it.

[@bigj1905]

Jedi: “What the hell did we do to you?”

[@miniaturejayhawk8702]

Jedi Order: *surprised pikachu face

[@iang257]

Mandalorians: *invading the galaxy and fucking everything up* Jedi: I sleep Sith: *Have the audacity to exist* Jedi: R E A L S H I T

[@Charlie94781]

The Jedi are superpowered douche bags

[@gavinsmith9871]

To be fair the Sith tend to make everyone's day ten times worse whenever they're around.

[@xriegle]

I wonder how the Jedi of the prequel era would react if a small group from the Sith species, (but not members of the Sith order!) revealed themselves.

[@allenbettis8558]

@@xriegle Probably: GENOCIDE!!!

[@mandoad1841]

@@gavinsmith9871 the sith were born from the jedis failure. Both are often called 2 sides of the same coin. Both the strongest and most successful orders of their respective sides. One could not exist without the other. Much like the light and dark. They were just another of the jedis mistakes. And the worst with how much death they caused for thousands of years.

[@SpazMonkeyxd]

Shout out to the Masters who murdered their pad ones because of a force vision

[@InventorZahran]

Luke Skywalker: "Great idea. Imma try that on Ben..."

[@mobiletaskforceepsilon1172]

I think it was called 'Padawan Massacre'

[@koharumi1]

Jedi masters: This Padawan mence is going to be the death of me.

[@TetsuShima]

The KOTOR 2 Era can be resumed in this simple way: Atton Rand: "I am hilarious and you will quote everything I say"

[@Spartan3D213]

Kreia; influence grained kreia;Influence lost.

[@SalinaMoonfall]

Meatbags

[@amanzeihedioha]

How many iconic oneliners?

[@92HazelMocha]

*PURE PAZZAK*

[@thargs9184]

"When a woman fall to the dark side..you better space yourself" still the most memorable considering he was certain revan was a woman and mitra a male XD how the lore changed and made Atton look like a fool even more XD

[@gamerboy6787]

I hated Atris so damn much. Unbelieveably self-righteous and condescending. Nothing was ever her fault, it was always others who fell short, yada yada. The fact that she wears all white is the first clue to her self-righteousness.

[@TheSmokeyDawn]

I still love the fact that the Jedi order was reborn from the tortured souls the Exile found, trained and mentored. This handful of beings, even with the disappearance of their leader, rose up and reconstructed it all.

[@chumchum3803]

This is why the KOTOR 1-2 plot is arguably better than the actual movies And its a couple video games from like 20 years ago

[@avzed1789]

More like 1.5 games. 2 was rushed and rather chopped down. But that just goes to show how some damn good writing can carry a game.

[@chumchum3803]

@@avzed1789 yeah that is the sad truth bout kotor 2, but the fact that the game is so good and still hold up today says something givin the proper time table, it couldve easily been the best SW game ever. I mean the game was way ahead of its time

[@mallemarkus153]

@@avzed1789 thank God there was the team of TSL restored content mod, who made it into a dev approved, somewhat complete (and far more enjoyable) game

[@rebeldropper8933]

Meetra Surric is 1 of my favorite Jedi ever after being exiled and using the abomination weapon (mass shadow generator).Just to come back stronger then ever. Actually snuck into Drummond Kass to free Revan who was sitting rotting on his own filth in Dart Nyris' dungeon. The end of the novel is tragic but i will always fight for those that dont have the means to. She was righteous and powerful in all the right reasons! Thank you Geetlys!

[@EricVornoff]

The scene where Kreia strips the force from the Jedi High Council is bliss.

[@1trushadowclw642]

Yeah it's such a good story line. That could be a great movie

[@MrEvers]

That novel did her dirty though. The woman who defeated some of the most twisted Sith and rebuild the Jedi order

[@danielbeck2739]

I honestly think Meetra should have never returned to the council on Dantooine after how they treated her. Put it simply they were so blind to what was going on that any help she could even offer would be null and void as they would seek to probably hurt her once more thinking some how she's part of the problem. Hell if I were her and I got a list of who would be there I'd tell them to piss off and they can fix this mess on their own since they "obviously" knew what was going on. And before you say I'm vindictive, you're right. And quite honestly she'd have every right to be after that. I have my own issues with the Jedi Order when it comes to their code and their actions, but during this period I'd say it was at the height of stupidity.

[@HandleDisliker]

My take on Meetra Surik's return was that the wound she carried had such an emotional impact that she sought the Jedi's "perscription," if you would, and when they gave it to her she took it and fulfilled it, which to me is why she (seems to) still look at the Jedi with esteem and seeks them out to balance the force.

[@mitchellhayward6492]

You need to remember that the whole reason she decided to search for the other Jedi in the first place was because she was being hunted by the Sith. Understandably, she believed that a united front against a common enemy was the best chance for any of them. A *big* part of her motivation for finding and uniting what was left of the council was to figure out a way to stop the Sith.

[@danielbeck2739]

I understand reasoning, my point was that she was honestly better off not showing given who was there and the history they had. Would have been better off not showing or finding other open minded members who could have taken what she provided, done their own investigation to better add more context, and then bring it to the council members rather then her as chances are their word might have carried more weight then Meetra's in their eyes as it's clear they had no trust in anything that came out of her mouth. Again that is also based on previously established history given the mannerisms and overall attitude directed at her.

[@RoyalLegend1000]

Yupp the jedi ordrer frome the Sith war to the clone wars was idiots, the only accuntly good jedi ordrer was the one Luke maked

[@mateuszslawinski1990]

@@danielbeck2739 Right after "chapter one" AKA Peragus, she knew two things: Sith are after her and she needs all the help she can get AND supposedly all the Jedi are dead. Obviously she didn't have much of a choice and had to ask for help those who survived. Sadly, all Jedi masters who survived happened to be... failures.

[@z-man1237]

Damn, the Jedi just couldn’t get a break in KOTOR at all. They either got destroyed by enemies or by themselves

[@julianG1212]

Lol communism sucks

[@AsperaZeit]

@@julianG1212 geez shut up

[@baconboi4482]

@@AsperaZeit he isn’t wrong tho

[@julianG1212]

@@baconboi4482 thank you bacon

[@mpnuorva]

Almost like they were being written by people who don't like Jedi...

[@InventorZahran]

Atris was essentially living the galactic equivalent of the Goth/Emo lifestyle. Surrounding herself with symbols of darkness, but not necessarily being a member of the group that those things symbolized.

[@InventorZahran]

Anyone who knows more about those lifestyles than I do, feel free to correct any misconceptions I may have made here.

[@concept5631]

Except goth/emo people are (mostly) pretty chill and respectful compared to whatever Atris is.

[@tux75]

Bastilla Shan survived as well, I can see Juhani as a victim of Katarr, and I can see Jolee either died to Sion in a last stand or gave up being a Jedi to survive

[@peacekeeper1413]

For all there code states the Jedi always seem to be fearing many things

[@EricVornoff]

Anybody else notice the similarities between Reverend Mother Mohiam from Dune and Kreia? The part in KOTOR II on nar shaddaa where Kreia teaches you to feel the echoes in the force around you is a concept in the 'Orange Catholic Bible' from Dune. Also, the way she wants to kill the force so people aren't slaves to its will, in Dune they did the same thing only except for the force, it's AI (thinking machines, any machines that counterfeit a human mind)

[@musicwarrior7630]

Personally I like individual Jedi but detest the order itself. On practice the Jedi seem to achieve more as individuals or small groups but the order itself while with good ideals and intentions they fail to upkeep them and fall into hypocrisy and suffer from inaction. Maybe it's the will of the force that when the Jedi orders get to a specific height and fall when the sith grow few. After all true balance is not too light nor too dark. A healthy mix of both creates balance in anything

[@ЖамекЖамек-н6ч]

What kind of hypocrisy? The presence of the Dark Side is already a violation of the balance, the balance in the force is not the balance between the dark and the light side, but the absence of the Dark Side. The Dark Side by its very existence creates Chaos in the Force

[@kathleendelcourt8136]

Nope, because the light IS the balance and the dark is the corruption of the force (and it's the canon lore, balance of the force isn't achieved through a bit of of light and a bit of dark, it's a fanfic misconception). The problem with the Jedi order isn't that they only seek the light, it is that they've failed on many occasion to find the actual path that leads to the light and unknowingly worked against it. In the case of KOTOR for instance they thought that neutrality was the way of the light and balance while in fact by their inaction they allowed chaos and violence to spread. They thought that stopping the Mandalorian would lead to the dark side while it was actually the exact contrary, it allowed the dark side to grow. The Jedi who went with Revan to stop the Mandalorians were the true defenders of the light side, and if some fell to the dark side like Revan it's because the Jedi Order rejected them and left them face the atrocities of war alone.

[@jeremyallen5974]

​@@kathleendelcourt8136 It's like a pendulum. Leaning too far in either direction will have disastrous consequences for the people in the middle

[@kathleendelcourt8136]

@@jeremyallen5974 It's not how it works. The force isn't a Ying, Yang dichotomy.

[@jeremyallen5974]

@@kathleendelcourt8136 And the 'kill the shit out of the other guy' mindset is better?

[@goldeagle6431]

The Senate believed the Jedi needed to burn down, including its younglings.

[@ramonfernandomirandanoguei365]

What about Brianna the Handmaiden? She also became a Jedi under the tutelage of Meetra Surik!

[@gabrielandjavierpinales3689]

We agree with you Brianna gives us information about her mother Arren Kae, Kreia's Jedi name. She is just like Luke Skywalker trying to become a Jedi to honor her mother's legacy, unbeknownst to her, her mother walk away from that when she saw truth on both sides. With Brianna we can see how fully corrupt Atris is, and her half sisters evils were breeding when their loyalty to Atris and their resentment to their younger half sister turning them in agents to the dark side. With Brianna she makes more sense in the story than Mical.

[@Deathwing-jf8vq]

honestly i'd like to see a video specifically on Atris and how she never realized that she was becoming a sith and how that could have happened.

[@sisigs4820]

This council was even more corrupt then the one in clone wars. At least most of the council actually tried to protect innocents by fighting in the war. These guys just sat there and did nothing out of fear.

[@varasatoshi3961]

Never have I heard the full story of both KOTOR games in one video. Especially deep diving into the reason, and the overarching narrative of the series. I love it.

[@arielortiz5643]

I would like a video for everyone of them 😁 Aside from that, I think that Atris may be the most annoying of all the jedi, but if you think about it, she is the more human of them and the one who did more to try to solve the problem. Her bitterness actually towards the exile came from envy, as she recognized at some point that Surik was right and the council wrong. Her fall to the darkside is understandable, as she was a member of the council who thought that she did everything by the book and still failed. Compared to the psychotic final confrontation of the jedi council on Dantooine, who still blamed all their mistakes to Surik after she saved everyone in their respective planets, it seems that her thoughts were more connected to the reality than all the others. By that time, she was seduced by the darkside (and Kreia helped in that) and thought that killing Surik would be her final step. She understood, at least partially, that the jedi ruined everything and took one of the fews alternatives: start from zero. Of course, all her methods were wrong, ut she had more guts and did a lot more than all the other masters. Also, no one is more annoying or deserves more hate than Vrook 😂😂😂😂😂

[@jeremyleonjonas7657]

I'd love videos about both the Pious Dea Crusades and the New Sith Wars. To immensely awesome (and underrated) eras in Star Wars that the jedi absolutely rocked managing xD and argueably also the most dire and grim times to be alive in the galaxy.

[@lordgaude4251]

It’s like the Jedi are their own worst enemy.

[@Ben-Ken]

This whole story arc would make a hell of a "Game Of Thrones" style series. It can't properly be told in PG rating. Star Wars really needs an adult division.

[@thargs9184]

thats a dream destined to die before it even see the light of days under Disney..thats just the sad reality of the evil mouse..

[@InventorZahran]

All of the Sequel Trilogy films were rated PG-13, so this idea could probably be done under the same rating. If I'm interpreting the ratings system correctly, the only reason to raise it to an R would be for nudity, explicit sexual activity, swearing, or excessively brutal violence. Nudity and sex are not present in this story, and Star Wars has its own vocabulary of fictional profanity words, so those problems are already solved. And as we've seen in the sequels and Revenge of the Sith, Star Wars can get really violent and somehow not receive an R rating. So at least in theory, it's conceivably possible that Disney could do this without making it an "adults only" thing.

[@masc6287]

If they did make it into a series which do you think would be better: Live action or animated. I'd prefer a 3D animated series that uses a realism style like in one of the Star Wars Visions episodes on Disney Plus. This would allow them to have more complex and artistic settings that encapsulates the old republic style and allow for more complex fight choreography that you would not be able to pull off in a live action series. Plus the animation would allow them to present all the unique force powers & technology of the era on full display while live action would avoid it due to budget and clashing with the visuals.

[@Ben-Ken]

@@masc6287 I agree with all those points. I was thinking state of the art game CGI.

[@RoyalLegend1000]

@@masc6287 I totally argee, the animated series look and fells 100× better that the movies

[@pauliverson3956]

Explaining the Lost Jedi, you forgot the Handmaiden Brianna. “Canonically” she was did go with Surik and was trained as a Jedi and would replace Atris as historian.

[@Karlos1234ify]

Anakin: Hey, I’ve seen this one!

[@eagarmp]

Don't forget Brianna the handmaiden she did travel with meetra not in the game but in the actual kotor 2 timeline

[@Phantom19913]

That’s the thing about the Jedi when they get to big it always leads to their downfall

[@ramendragon3628]

Mira, Atton Rand, and Bao-Dur sound like awesome future videos; especially Mira and Rand. Thanks for posting.

[@declanhandley-byrne4335]

It seems like this iteration of the Jedi Council was just as dogmatic as the one in the Clone Wars, but in a different way

[@legotimefuntime5438]

I’ve been replaying KotOR 2 and never realized how screwed up the console was.

[@juniorg8162]

I would like to see a video on each of the jedi Meetra Surik found or if there is not much information about them just make one. I especially want to learn more about Mira the bounty hunter and her reasoning behind not killing anyone. Visas Marr and how she got free from her slavery by the Sith. And lastly about Bao-Dur and what he did during the Mandalorian Wars.

[@jakealter5504]

They were right about the dark side being at work but they screwed up on blaming revan, malak, and meetra. Vitiate’s sith were the ones that they likely sensed

[@bait644]

"Light good, dark bad" dogma kills off both orders so often. The Sith are used to their order dying and coming back while the Jedi are constantly living (mostly) lavished lives. Like two children fighting over a parents love, they are just ripping themselves and the Force apart and the only breather the Galaxy has is when they are both too wounded to fight each other. Since the Jed-ah split, they both are the embodiments of what they hate in the other. Sith hate the Jedi for being ruthless in their rules and secular study of the Force, and the Jedi hate the Sith for being arrogant and self-centered. The incredible irony is that the Jedi are arrogant and this nearly breaks them and clearly did before. While the Sith are so rigid in their teachings that it's only extreme or not at all for them. Reject the orders, return to Jed-ah. 🤣

[@92HazelMocha]

Yes.

[@deacon6221]

There is no light side and dark side of the force, there is just the force.

[@gavinsmith9871]

Nah, the Darkside really is bad. Failure to simply accept that fact is what leads Jedi falling in the first place. Notice how every time one of them thinks "oh it won't happen to me, I'm not going to go too far" or "I'm doing it for a good reason" they turn out just like every other bloodthirsty Sith Lord? Ya that's not a coincidence.

[@deacon6221]

@@gavinsmith9871 yeah every time someone uses dark side powers they hurt the force itself

[@gavinsmith9871]

@@deacon6221 More like the Force enslaves them. Because the more you try and fight life itself the more it will adapt to destroy its enemies.

[@jasoncaldwell5627]

Zayne Carriick should have been one of those "new Masters". No other Jedi held to the nobility and hope the Jedi represented to the galaxy like he did.

[@alexanderrahl7034]

I mean, Bastia Shan and her child was still on Coruscant too. I always wondered what became of her

[@antwan1357]

I remember her she wasn't a Sith she was a fanatic for the light side.

[@christianholzschuh6853]

Interesting. I always saw Atris more like a grey jedi. Somebody that sits around and acomplishes nothing. Shure, she talked to sith holocrons a lot and her mind was clouded but, she always lacked power and conviction. She was a sheep who just wanted to follow somebody. First the playercharacter, then the masters who blamed her, then the holocrons. She founded a jedi academy without jeditraining. Atris is more the Sakura of Kotor then anything else...

[@echo8474]

Please do multiple videos about these individual jedi who were involved in Mitra Surick's coucil.

[@nathaniellong4281]

I would love to see videos covering these Jedi "failures", and how they rebuilt the Order with the Jedi Exile.

[@marklee1194]

11:57 - Also, Brianna the Last Handmaiden who went on to succeed Atris as Jedi Historian.

[@timvanhoeck7018]

Ossus wasn't the Jedi homeworld. That would be Tython. Ossus was simply their greatest repository of knowledge, until it's destruction, of course.

[@no1ofconsequence936]

Meetra Surik created a new Jedi Order. I just wish we could see some stories with them. Probably just fan fictions if anything.

[@michaelandreipalon359]

*sees title* Finally, somebody is speaking my Star Wars language. If the Jedi go wayward, feel free to purge them, as necessary.

[@BurningFlamesofDivineDragon]

This dose a great job explaining why the Jedi need to do there own thing. No Jedi Order and no siding with the Republic. Just doing there own think helping the galaxy in there own way during there own time.

[@Reoh0z]

If the Jedi had gotten involved would Darth Revan, and all that came after, have still transpired?

[@Thastormable]

Counting the old republic? Yeah. Considering what turned them was encountering the emperor unprepared which no one at the time knew existed. Not counting old republic? It is unknown but likely he would have still fallen since reven had to adopt increasingly more militaristic viewpoints to combat the mandalorians and he realized the sith was behind things and had to set the stage for the Galaxy to fight them with a broken republic. It is heavily implied by both go-to and hk-74 that before reven even met the emperor he was already planning on using the siths own tactics against them, malacor was a experiment in how to break a Jedi. Funny thing is even after he was corrupted by the emperor he was still intending of fighting with the republics interests in mind, his goal was to corrupt the Jedi into his own order that way when the sith finally did arrive they would not be able to do the same and he would have a army of loyal force users ready to fight them.

[@Riftrender]

Personally I found the random changing their mind and turning against the Exile to be poorly written.

[@miguelcondadoolivar5149]

They were alone with Vrook for a while. That bastard got into their heads.

[@Justin-AL]

Geetsly: Kavarr secret joined the royal family Onderon Man 1: hey jim did you hear about the Jedi helping out the queen Onderon Man 2: yeah I was just telling Sarah, Michelle and James about it weird right?

[@garrettously3605]

You forgot about the Handmaiden (Brianna) she became a jedi and took Atris's place

[@exodosthesoulbanish]

Honestly I feel that how dogmatic and stubborn Vrook was he bent the other two masters into his way of thinking. If Vrook wasn't there I reckon the others would of come around about their failings.

[@mr.vorrnyvorrn2516]

What if Vrook Lamar opened his eyes?

[@clonecoric4140]

Atris is the only being more bitter than a Star Wars fan.

[@92HazelMocha]

Surik: It’s not too late Atris, come back to the light Atris: Everything after the original trilogy was a mistake! Disney ruined StarWars! Empire Strikes Back is the only good StarWars film! Surik: I will do what I must.

[@goodmind4940]

@@92HazelMocha it's kinda true

[@jameskosusnik1102]

Redditor*

[@ucbrightnoa]

Contains Knights of the Old Republic II spoilers: Ossus wasn’t the original, original Jedi home planet; Tython was. Tython ended up being abandoned and forgotten. Ossus was more of an archive and scholarly planet until its destruction. Also not mentioned is that Atris arranged for the last Jedi conclave on Katarr without going herself. She saw the Order as weak and in need of purging. So, she had them gather as bait to lure the threat that sucked the life out of all of them. She knowingly threw the Order under the bus. Just before their deaths, they saw a vision that revealed Meetra Surik as the key to galactic salvation-the one they should seek. Atris then arranged for Surik to return to Republic space, then leaked that information, again using a Jedi as bait to lure out the threat (Atris not realizing she was part of the threat). Atris had fallen so far, she deemed the Jedi too weak to be worthy of redemption. So she studied forbidden Sith knowledge hoping to destroy the Sith, denying that she was dark side herself. Atris would have combined the Sith and Jedi teachings to make a new, “stronger” Jedi Order while denying the hypocrisy of making the Sith again.

[@PrimarisBlackTemplaDraven]

After playing old republic I just love it when you can exposed allot of Jedis who are corrupt

[@jonahstirbis3408]

This is why I made a new Jedi order that allows marriage and allows all types of teachings and students and admits our mistakes when they happen.

[@Allronix]

Geetsly's: We stan the Jedi! We can totally justify their child conscription, their brutal psychological abuse and social isolation, their training and use as glorified living weapons... Bioware, Obsidian, and Dark Horse: Yeah. Hold our beers while we check the list. Dark Horse: We got a group of Jedi slaughtering their own Padawans on the basis of a half baked vision. We have them scratching their asses while the Republic burns. Looks like they may have covered up a genocide here as well.... Bioware: Oh, we have them turning a brain damaged POW into a glorified assassin droid and sending them against their best friend with the hope they kill one another. And as a test, we goaded one of our most promising and dedicated Padawans into a senseless rage, tricked her into thinking she killed her own master, and left her to rot out in our meditation grove. Don;t worry, her master's gonna be okay. But wouldn't this make a FANTASTIC test for our mind wiped Sith Lord? If she dies, no big loss. If she doesn't, we can break our arms congratulating ourselves on double redemption! Obsidian: Um...let's see. How about...Oh! We kick out the only one of Revan;'s crew who crawled back asking forgiveness and show them "mercy" in the form of kicking them out with nothing but the clothing on their back while keeping it all hush hush about our soiled underwear because we do NOT understand what they are. Oh, and one of our high council members decides to wipe out all of her peers to try and reshape the Order in her own image...while taking advice from a room of Sith holocrons. Good luck, Jedi stans! Geetsley's: And...we got nothing.

[@jeremyallen5974]

Don't forget their blunder with Anakin "We treated the kid like trash the whole time he was with us and he had the AUDACITY to sign on with a Sith Lord?! How could he do such a thing?!!?"

[@clement28300yip]

Why does it feel like the Clone Wars and subsequently Order 66, showed the Order had learnt nothing from the First Jedi Purge?

[@pw6002]

Very nice vid, full of information about the KOTOR era, thanks !!

[@vulture_of_life9274]

You mean how the Jedi are consistently failing, because they're the ones actually intervening in conflicts without having pretense or understanding (example being when they decided to step in and stop Grievous from erasing the race that but him and countless other species into slavery). Yeah, the jedi are constantly messing up things.

[@RoyalLegend1000]

Yupp, that's why the was needed them to fall, the was just many idiots who don't know what the was doing, the only accuntly good jedi ordrer was Luke's in the Star wars legends

[@tyresejeffers7857]

Genocide is never the answer. That's all I'm going to say

[@vulture_of_life9274]

@@tyresejeffers7857 In my opinion, and in a fictional word viewpoint. I would've helped Grievous exterminate the Kam'rii.

[@wildfire9280]

Yup totally. Ignore every Sith Empire in existence. And when the Jedi don’t intervene (the Mandolorian Wars) they’re still hated. 10/10 logic

[@vulture_of_life9274]

@@wildfire9280 They're rightfully hated for not joining during the Mandalorian wars. How many worlds burned because they didn't intervene. However the Sith weren't influencing the conflict between General Grievous and his people against the slave trading race known as the Yam'rii. In order to stop the Yam'rii, Grevious went to war and almost succeeded in crushing them. However the Jedi intervened and stopped it. The jedi deserve the hate they get. My side is influenced by the fact I despise jedi though and love the sith.

[@g-bohh6718]

Hey man can you do a more in-depth dive inth the jedis that took over

[@alexkorinth6459]

That is exactly how the jedi should pick new padawans. Just grab lost souls to train. They already know how to handle emotion because they've already felt them, and learned their consequences the hard way. Not only that, but they know how to use them properly for good instead of evil.

[@123fourfive5]

How did Revan's sith directly lead to the sith triumvirate? And how did those two sith armies not clash at some point? Especially since the triumvirate should have been created at the end of the Mandalorian wars so both parties would have existed simultaneously

[@dobbysboggart6883]

After Malak's death, his empire fell apart into warring factions. Sion and Nihilus were the surviving leaders who emerged from the conflict. And Kreia moved into the academy at Malachor, adopted the name Darth Traya, and formed the alliance of the Sith Triumvirate. She completed Sion's and Nihilus's training, before they betrayed her.

[@lordMartiya]

Technically, there still was at least ONE Master of the old Order, possibly two... But I have no idea what Kina Ha was up to at the time, or if Willm Lywin was even still alive.

[@jendersonmohammed443]

Their failures created lots of catastrophic events.

[@raw6668]

The Brianna Handmaiden is also another example of failure. Also, the cannon is all possible recruits, regardless of gender, were recruited.

[@ThoraxetheImpaile100]

11:40 I guess Brianna doesn't count as a canon companion in KOTOR 2. To be honest, that's the only reason I play the game as male rather than female. I felt that Brianna had more depth to her character where as Mical felt like it was lacking. Plus Brianna joining the team made more sense as she was Kreia's way into Atris's academy.

[@lai9986]

When seeing her, I could never tell whether Kreia was a Twi’lek or not.

[@HandleDisliker]

I keep thinking Kreia is a Togruta or something like that myself lol. The makeup, hair and hood don't really help with that

[@DLR1997]

She is human

[@zexalbrony4799]

In Atrias defense, she was right about needing to study your enemy to beat them. After all, if you have no idea what your enemy is all about, how they fight, think, act, how will you come up with a plan to counter and stop them. However, she fucked it up, she was supposed to study them, not join them. And that is why she fails.

[@DarkManser]

I can't remember if it's dialogue in game or deleted content, but it's revealed that she orchestrated Darth Nihilus' slaughter of the Jedi gathering at Kataar. She hoped the gathering would allow the Jedi the strength to take him on, but she was wrong. It's why the 3 masters you come across are surprised to hear she was alive. They thought she was there since she set it up.

[@HardPhoenixRock]

You feel so safe inside The walls you fortified Supremacy implied Who dares to overthrow? Arrogance justified Self-importance amplified It's down you go When your walls fall like Jericho Track: Jericho Artist: Celldweller Album: End of an Empire Release Year: 2015

[@randywagre873]

When will the movie adaptation of this awesome story appear? This is so cool

[@gothicshark]

The Jedi Exile "Meetra Surik" more then Raven should be made canon, her journey is the one I find most interesting. I wish KOTOR 2 was polished better than it was, because it was by far the more interesting story.

[@Nsinger998]

Canonically, Handmaiden/Brianna was also one of the lost Jedi.

[@CD-Freedom]

Great video. I really enjoy your KOTOR 2 content!

[@cushman72393]

You forgot Brianna as one of the Lost Jedi that Meetra Surik trained

[@andredfreitas6909]

I use those jedis on my RPG star wars saga kotor game as the new jedi counsil. I would like to see a vídeo about each one of them.

[@TritonsGuard]

Great presentation. Just one minor thing. Mira had indeed killed before she met the exile (only if she had too). She stated as such.

[@TheSuperJepphyKiller]

0:16 Yeah well they expelled Ahsoka from the order for political convenience.

[@superabdoking5372]

Mitra syrik is the sithari of the jedi order The wound she helped create ended up destroying the jedi order, and she was the one who rebuilt it, stronger than ever before

[@HK--nf1sc]

I have my own "honorifics" for the 5 Jedi Masters who judged Surik: Atris the Corrupted, Vrook the Arrogant, Zez Kai-ell the Cowardly, Kavar the Idiot, and Vash the Deceased. Here's why (note I played KOTOR: TSL with the Restored Content Mod. Can't recommend it enough): Vrook was so sure of his skill as a Jedi, he hid out in the one place he could be easily found: the Dantooine Jedi Enclave ruins. He then allows himself to be captured by the mercs to find out who is behind the bounties on Jedi, thinking he can easily escape if he wanted to. He also does this to keep them from attacking Khoonda, having learned what they were planning. Yet, he failed to figure out that the mercs were planning to attack Khoonda as soon as they shipped him off planet. 🤦 He was also the only one of the 3 surviving masters to believe the council was never wrong during the Mandalorian wars and Jedi Civil War.

[@HK--nf1sc]

Zez Kai-ell is a coward because when he speaks to Surik after Mira knocked her out with that ship exhaust, he remarked that she was doing things for the refugees in the refugee sector that he was too afraid to do. He then tells you he is going to the Jekk'Jekk'Tarr to save Mira from Visquis, as she went in your place. But, all the while your storming that bar and Visquis' secret base, you don't see him once, and you end up doing all the heavy lifting. He doesn't even lend your crew a hand when they board G0-T0's yacht to save you.

[@HK--nf1sc]

Kavar is an idiot due to a number of reasons. One, the Star Wars wiki says that when Queen Talia and her cousin, Vaklu, start quarreling over Onderon being likely taken advantage of by the Republic, Kavar advises the Queen to do nothing. He's probably been the Queen's advisor for 3-5 years by the time you come into the picture and it never occurred to him once that he should advise the Queen to maybe talk to her cousin, maybe try to come to an understanding. Kavar, to me, seemed like he sucked at his job. Two, when he goes to the Cantina to meet up with Surik, he gets tailed by Colonel Tobin and his troops. Kavar never noticed them following him when he left the palace. He knew the meeting was secret due to the clandestine way that doctor got the message to him for the meet up, yet he, as a Jedi Master, in hiding, never noticed he was being tailed? Yeah, not buying it. Finally, when the palace is besieged by Vaklu's forces, you find him in the security room, away from Talia. When you ask him why he got separated, he gives you: "I'm not her body guard!" I was like: "Bruh! You do realize that if she, the entire reason this battle is being fought, dies, Onderon will seceed and the Republic will fall?!?!?! Where will you be when the Sith reveal themselves then, huh?! SMH.

[@HK--nf1sc]

Atris and Vash are self-explanatory, but I will say this about Vash: I had some difficulty deciding whether she or Kavar is the bigger idiot. I know she was supposed to die on that droid planet that ultimately got cut, but really Vash?! Out of all the places you can choose to lie low, you chose Korriban?! No wonder you died!

[@ChairmanKam]

See I disagree with the premise that the Jedi during the prequels weren't just as corrupt. When I played TSL, that was the revelation: Whenever the Order corrupts, it dies.

[@airekblade5036]

How about that time when Jedi Master were slaying apprentices because they force future. Zayne was the Jedi apprentice that escape.

[@Belial1125]

Im always sad that the Handmaiden isnt canon because you dont get her on the female play through, and the female exile is the canon, so she ends up pretty much having to live a life of misery and pity being the least of her sisters, instead of being able to be recognized as a full jedi and becoming the best of them.

[@anthonyhargis6855]

The only problem with the Jedi was their failure to understand the doctrine of "Separation of Church and State." They had no business aligning with "government" in any form. That alliance is what led to their troubles . . . in every era.

[@cweb9169]

I do appreciate that you guys are actually fair to the Jedi Order. So many star wars fans are so simple where the Jedi are concerned. "JUsT lET tHEm HavE sEx thAtLL fIX thEM!" Totally missed what the real problem and philosophical approach of the Order became after Ulic Qel-Droma and Nomi Sunrider. Everyone assumes grey Jedi are not only real but better because"grEy JEdI cAN kILl anD BanG aND Be GoOd gUyS!' Missing that there is no so called grey side for one, and that moral greyness does not predicate itself on the Force itself being grey. We're that true then the Jedi and Sith would have long ago been brought up against another order. However all such so called grey siders are merely stuck in the middle. Because they are not attune with the light or dark their affinity is rather dulled. As has been spoken toward and inferred time and again in media of all manner regarding star wars. Flawed the Jedi may be but it's not because they are simply doing it wrong as all my fellow wannabe Force philosophers wish to imply. Anyways rant over. Thanks again for being more honest about the Force and Jedi, Geetsly crew.

[@revanius2213]

I do wonder what happened to Jolee Bindo and Juhani, if they died during the purge or went into hiding like Bastila did.

[@mikemerchant9242]

"We're pretty big jedi defenders", really?! I couldn't tell.

[@NRAllen]

Yes! Lore on the Kotor 2 characters? Please and thank you. For I am not the Jedi I should be

[@galaxy-eyesgarchomp9478]

What is it with Jedi who study the sith so much, they become the one thing they swore to destroy.(rhetorical question)

[@ronifree20]

2:53 Malek's name wasn't Malek at the time, it was Alek . He added the M with his fall to the dark side where he renamed Darth Malek.

[@ArtemisKing2468]

Wait a minute, you're telling me that Meetra Surrik single-handedly revived the Jedi order with probably some of the most powerful Jedi to ever live as they survived both the Mandalorian Wars and the first Jedi Purge and she and Revan did not ask for their help when they went to face Vitiate and instead only asked for help from some bargain bin Sith Lord (I love Scourge, but it's true). The more I learn about the lore surrounding the first two Kotor games, the stupider the Revan novel and SWTOR (specifically the parts relating to Kotor) get.

[@GreaterGrievobeast55]

Wait there were only a hundred jedi around during the first purge? That kinda makes the event slightly less impressive..

[@christophermetzger8183]

The jedi philosophy was flawed even in Yoda's time. They just learned way more than there predecessors. It was not until Luke in his old age prefect the jedi philosophy.

[@tokodemon4281]

The Jedi don’t adapt or expect controversial ideas even if they will help in fear of the dark side. That’s why the Jedi will fail every time. If they weren’t so kill happy with palps things may have happened differently. Gray is the only path worth while