Was it Actually Possible to be a "Good" Sith?

Nothing better than a philosophical discussion about the Sith to round off your day.
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[@TheAusar]

Geetsly's: "All sith are evil" Me, an intellectual: "Only sith deal in absolutes. I will do what I must."

[@demonic_myst4503]

An interlectual woth any knolledge in psychology or philodaphy can rip this entire videos arguments and most of lucus beleifs apart easily

[@earthsmortician5869]

You will try.

[@demonic_myst4503]

@@earthsmortician5869 if u honestly think pretending u can control your emotions and acting like emotions are shameful, which the Jedi do, is good for u, you missed even a basic lecture on mental health. supressing emotions leads to outbursts and a lack of emotional maturity in later life. shame of emotions leads to self hate, being ashamed of something that you cant prevent is a toxic mindset that will bring down mental health and lead to the darker emotions the jedi are scared of.

[@demonic_myst4503]

@@earthsmortician5869 the healthiest tgink is to come to terms with emotion to find the root cause of them and accept it this is what therapy tries to do the opposite to what Jedi's encourage jedi encurage bad mental gealth practices that lead to less stable people more likely to fall and become the corrupted dark side users so present in starwars

[@jordanhendrix2619]

@@demonic_myst4503 what you’re saying makes sense. Now please, for the love of all that is good, check your grammar! With respect, I feel like I’m having a stroke reading your comments.

[@neofulcrum5013]

Swtor: *we will make it possible*

[@michaelandreipalon359]

Darth Marr, was it?

[@morriganaego4288]

Swtor makes so much more sense than anything disney has been putting out, especially with giving us nuanced characters

[@Spartan3D213]

@@morriganaego4288 jedi like noman kar in warrior storyline and the light sith lord in the dark temple come to mind.

[@morriganaego4288]

@@Spartan3D213 absolutely, or lord scourge, having waited 300 years to finally kill the planet eater, by definition this is a good sith The otherwise noticeable I remember from the top of my head are obviously Lana Beniko, Lord Haggrew and Empress Acina (who is even willing to ally and accept Jedi)

[@HonestHappyHater]

@@morriganaego4288 From what I saw in his codex entry Lord Hargrev (before his assignment to Dread Executioners) seemed like "eating pets alive for fun"-type. He was "redeemed" by the Dread Masters, who quite literally scared him off being evil, and still an example of both following the way of the Sith and doing good deeds, but definitely evil at some point

[@hypertensiontwist6953]

I'd love to see a good Sith who does charitable acts just to infuriate the Jedi order.

[@sebas8225]

Semms like something the High Republic comics would do

[@MackNcD]

Cloaking themselves in such would make sense with the Sith way - they’re deceptive.

[@robrockstar9648]

Let tell you the tail of Darth Trollolol

[@robrockstar9648]

Let tell you the tail of Darth Trollolol

[@robrockstar9648]

Let tell you the tail of Darth Trollolol

[@sleepisgood2936]

Darth Vectivus was just passionate, passionate enough to not seek strength and destroying the galaxy but to study the sith and just live as business man who wants cool lightning powers

[@mung01re]

Vectivus is easily one of the most interesting Sith that, unfortunately, is now non-canon. But he wasn't a mass-murdering psychopath; he was a businessman. He had friends and family that loved him, and even his workers considered him fair and equitable.

[@gregdaweson4657]

@@mung01re Disney cannon is garbage cannon

[@DamianSzajnowski]

@@mung01re if Disney sequels are not canon, he is, just turn it around, bud

[@mung01re]

@@DamianSzajnowski Wait, what?

[@DamianSzajnowski]

@@mung01re I treat sequels as non-canonnd most legends that make sense as canon xD Like, cmon, Jake Skywalker isn't the Luke we know and love. Grandmaster Skywalker from legends is.

[@scottrick7321]

Ren wasn't Sith. He was an emotional man child with daddy issues.

[@arminxvs3372]

All dead Sith facepalming when seeing Kylo.

[@SpottedHares]

Vader was Sith: He was an emotional man child with mommy issues %) Looks like it runs in the family.

[@arminxvs3372]

@@SpottedHares blood is thicker than water haha But vader started out as a whinny kid. But then he became an ice cold badass.

[@noahb717]

@@arminxvs3372 and then he met lava. And palp put him through surgery that would be unethical these days that ended up with him being half human half cyborg.

[@arminxvs3372]

@@noahb717 Lava was really not his friend haha technically he is half cyborg but he was 100% human (OK, maybe 90+ if you count the hand) when he became Darth and thus a Sith.

[@MrProp16]

Revan: looks up from a book. Dooku: trying his best to retain some good in his moral compass as a Sith. Ulic Qel-Droma: secret agent man playing in the background

[@jakealter5504]

Lana Beniko was also pretty moral for a sith and wasn’t really evil

[@Awootistic]

Damn, no wonder he still be looking fresh for a Sith Lord.

[@generalyido]

Dooku was a sith but not evil. He left the jedi order because he knew it was already corrupted. Yeah he did some real messed up stuff but not as much as the other sith lords.

[@jakealter5504]

@@generalyido true

[@JoshTheHoffman]

Also Palpatine hide most of the darkside from Dooku to limit how powerful he could become.

[@edcliffe2988]

"The Sith code is full of selfish nonsense, with one... noble... exception. The notion of freedom. How ironic that they have no desire to let anyone else have any." -Teela Wendan

[@notyourbusiness5530]

Some freedoms can only exist where others are taken away. In many cases, freedom is just a euphemism for the phrase "I don't want to feel obligated to be considerate"

[@nathanielgarza9198]

@@notyourbusiness5530 power and freedom is the same thing If you have more resources and or skills more actions are available The Sith want power at all cost so they want freedom at all cost too

[@jaydena6297]

@@nathanielgarza9198 power and freedom are extremely different concepts

[@TheEmpressPalpatine]

Freedom....that is the part I like about the Sith. They are religious and philosophical independents (even Libertarian.) They feel what they feel. Pretending to have serene positive emotions all the time would be impossible. The Force could see through all pretense; and it is perfectly natural to want to be free, and have the power to get free. There are those who say the path to enlightenment is by way of constraint and denial of desire. That would be the Jedi (similar to the yogis). Others say the path to enlightenment is by way of expressing all emotions and desires. In so doing, you get beyond them. You transcend. That would be the Sith (similar to tantrists).

[@leftwardglobe1643]

@@jaydena6297 Freedom is the power to determine your path, and power is the ability to choose. They really aren't any different, and any semantic distinctions you could make between the two still have to contend with the fact that a free man must have some level of power. Whether that be physical or political, earned or given, it doesn't matter. If there is no power, there is no choice, and when there is no choice, what ceases to exist? Now, I would say that the pursuit of power for power's sake is a trap many Sith fall into, but that's not exactly what the code teaches. "Peace is a lie there is only passion, through passion I gain strength, through strength I gain power, through power I gain victory, through victory my chains are broken, the Force shall free me" is essentially an acknowledgement that strength stems from testing one's limits, that emotions are a core part of what makes us human, and a guideline on how to use one's Passion to Strengthen one's resolve, to use that resolve to gain Power over circumstance, and to use the power gained to achieve Victory over whatever obstacles are between you and the world you want to see, Freeing you from the restrictions that once held you to what you saw as imperfection. Power is purely a means to an end. "What" end is up to you, but the point of pursuing power is to achieve a goal. And that goal can be as benign or as malicious as you want it to be. For example, say I visit a mining town where the workers are exploited and abused by the company, or perhaps I'm a resident. Either really works, it's just the specifics that change. My passions would tell me that this is wrong because I empathize with the workers and I see that they are suffering. I see a mother who can't feed her children, or a man who's injured and can't afford proper medical care and is destined to starve, I want to help them. Moreover, I want to help them break the system that's holding them back. That strengthens my resolve. So, as a Sith, I build connections with them. I help out here and there, I buy food for them, I cover payments that they can't make, if I'm a worker I take shifts when they get injured, etc. I gain their trust and make sure I can call on them if I need to in return. This is building a power base. Then I start encouraging discontent with the state of affairs. A few whispers here and there, maybe I see a bad situation someone is in and try and take a stand for them, only to let the system win or even to win myself and show that we can push back, etc. Push them to realize that change is needed. Eventually, I start to organize them, maybe even on recommendation from one of the workers. We push, politically at first, for change. If that's met with violence, or better yet, if I can use a violent incident separate to this to rally the people around, it turns into a revolution, and I do my best to arm and supply that resistance, or if I am a worker to strategize and make the best of what we have, ensuring its success. This is using my power base to effect change and achieve victory, breaking their chains. When the dust settles and either an agreement is reached between the company and the union or the company is overthrown by the union, I then use my influence to effect lasting change for the people and keep them safe, happy and ultimately loyal. Not in the sense of subjugation, but as allies. Now, not only have I brought about change and achieved my goals, I have a substantial power base with which to further shape the world around me in future should I see anything else my passions guide me to act on. This is what it means to be Sith. To let your passions not only guide you to do what you desire, good or ill, but to use them to strengthen you in the long term. The only rules you need to follow are the ones you lay out for yourself. Whether you are good or evil depends on your own moral fiber.

[@outcast170]

"You can't pick and choose what parts of the Sith you follow," Is that not the very defining feature of a true Sith? If you have the power, do what ever you want? So, if they had the power to remain a Sith, and chose NOT to follow every Sith rule.... Then they would actually be the ultimate Sith being they not only done what they wanted with the galaxy, but even had the power to pick and choose what they wanted from the Sith code. And yeah, as many have already pointed out, Revan turned to the dark side and became a Sith Lord because even a Sith empire of Slaves was better than all life in the galaxy being exterminated. If he had won as a Sith Lord, there wouldn't have been an emperor Palpatine to corrupt Skywalker, or Solo.

[@kennethnorth7018]

Correct. He became a sith to enforce his will on others. His will, being very in line with greater good.

[@outcast170]

@@kennethnorth7018 Exactly, while its always said "no good can come from the dark side", it only further proves the point that a Sith that can pick and choose, even remotely, their own Dark Side path to follow... Wouldn't they be considered some of the strongest Dark Side users?

[@richarddaniel3454]

@@outcast170 Most certainly they would! All the most powerful Jedi and Sith in-universe were generally pretty grey in their selection of conduct and abilities- excluding a few who were powerful *because* of their unique level of conviction to their chosen side.

[@outcast170]

@@richarddaniel3454 Now that you mention it, a true Grey Jedi that could feel and control the force, that resisted both the pull or "guidance" of the Light Side, as well as the pull of the Dark Side, would they technically be a more adept or at least more, personally, in control of the force than any Jedi that "carried out the will of the force" or any Sith that "fell" or "were seduced" by the Dark Side? Sure, they only resist the pull of either side and generally don't "master" either extreme, but even Jedi "submit" to the will of the force just like any Sith does. I mean, can we really be sure Darth Vader "fell" to the dark side? It was a light side prophecy that claimed Anakin would "bring balance" to the force (and I would definitely consider CLEARING both sides of the scales while leaving only Luke and Leia which were both fairly Grey force users as "balance"). Being a LIGHT side prophecy, could it stand to reason all of his actions as Darth were done by the will of the LIGHT side? Its not like he was really gaining anything personally by hunting every Jedi down for slaughter. So while indeed "dark" in his actions, was he actually still being guided by a royally pissed (by apprentice Palpatine and his master attemtping to... Create? More force power? However his apprentice days went...) but still the light side? Luke even says "I can still sense good in you". Maybe it was because he was still being controlled or otherwise "used" by the light side the ENTIRE time? Which would only farther imply that a "dark side" user, so strong in their control of the force they could fully decide of their own actions, independant of both the Sith or Jedi "Will" and "codes" would actually be the most powerful, and technically the only, force "user". As opposed to the average "force used" Jedi or Sith. Way to long, but it IS kinda a complicated point to make.

[@richarddaniel3454]

​@@outcast170 Just like the old adage of the throne acting upon people as opposed to the inverse. Yeah, I think that's an interesting idea. However, I think that the 'light side' in particular wasn't controlling him, and that there was no 'light side' prophesy; only prophesies of the Force. This would agree with the deep lore on the origins of force manipulation and the Je'daii's collapse into the Jedi and Sith orders. I think that which gives one power and purpose is destined to control you unless you have already done battle with yourself to use the power as a tool and not an end. There is no separation between the light and dark beyond the flavor of poison which seeps into your veins and moves you, as you fail to control yourself and thus the power you wield. If one is to wield the force, they must attain balance within themselves. Such was the creed of both the new and old Jedi orders, which is why you see them having more agency despite having less raw power. Serenity brings its own kind of power, addiction to it leads to passivity; at the mercy of your presuppositions. Left without a light in the dark, leaving you blind. And passion brings another power, but it puts you at the mercy of your emotions. Blinded by the light which you hold, leaving you to stumble blindly all the same. This was the philosophy I take away from the Star Wars universe, a yin-yang bit with extra steps and a physical 'force' that, when tapped into, will drive people too far in the light or dark segments of the greater whole without deep self-reflection

[@MRCAVALIER34]

Revan’s journey to the dark side wasn’t a fall, it was a sacrifice. This doesn’t necessarily make him good.

[@solaridraconi6225]

...Wait a sec... Are you telling me his Sith Sacrifice was HIMSELF?

[@daydreamdirty]

@@solaridraconi6225 why not?

[@torg2126]

@Cody Brock There's probibly a few alchemists who never left their labs in their careers, while specializing in Force active animal research.

[@OmegaTheMyth]

@@solaridraconi6225 Pretty much. Seeing the threat of the Sith Empire in the Unknown Regions, Revan purposefully sacrificed himself to the dark side and Sith teachings as he deemed it necessary for the galaxy's survival. His actions as Darth Revan always focus on conversion rather than destruction.

[@OmegaTheMyth]

Though of course, Revan during his Sith Reign was still a pretty evil person and wasn't immune to the corruption of the dark side despite his good intentions. Even he constructed a Sith Holocron that held his thoughts on the Sith Order, which would later inspire Bane to create the rule of two.

[@nigelcharlson2992]

I always understood that Vectivus didn't do anything to stop Palpatines prophecy because it wasn't his place in accord to the living force. That he just didn't have anything to do during his reign so he was like, "It smell like broke in here!", and got rich.

[@JimmyTurner]

Lots of sith lords get rich.

[@nigelcharlson2992]

@@JimmyTurner yeah, but they never spend it on anything cool. Vader had a castle with a literal gas leak. Like a bitch. My man Vectivus said fuck it and became John Rockefeller in space.

[@jermainesmith9429]

@@nigelcharlson2992 What about Plaguies?

[@nigelcharlson2992]

@@jermainesmith9429 Like the other dude said, most sith were rich. My point is that most sith are BORING. Plaguies was a fucking nerd. What he discovered was cool but he’s still a boring nerd. And not the cool kind of nerd.

[@ramarblood7697]

Vectivous went from Evil sith lord to Evil CEO.

[@romancapulus5577]

Geetsly’s: “All Sith are evil.” Light Sith players: “Unfortunately, history will not see it that way.”

[@Wright805]

"Light Sith" are basically Sith in name only.

[@inserisciunnome]

@@Wright805 the sith way says you can do wathever you want to the weak in Virtue of the fact that they can't stop you. Doesn't Say anything about not helping them if you want to. Because again: _who's going to stop me?_

[@drakon489a]

@@inserisciunnome *light sith beating up weak people by the hundreds with a stun staff with a Drill Sargent's hat* S "Come on you maggots, How in the hell are you going to defend your homelands? your families?" *hundreds of groaning, bruised, and crying men and women strewn about" S "Pathetic. We will repeat the exercise tomorrow at dawn. AND WE WILL CONTINUE THIS EXERCISE UNTIL YOU LOT GET YOUR ACT TOGETHER" P "Bastard" *smack* S "Like I said, Pathetic" J "Why do you put them through the fight yourself?" S "it is way more satisfying for them to fear and hate me together than their enemies." J "What happens if they win" S "They won't" J "What if they do?" S *smiles* "They won't. Only one will win against me" J "Who" S "The only one I am afraid of" J "Who is that?" S "please, Jedi. not even you are so naïve to think I would tell you of my weakness" J "I suppose so..." S "Now excuse me, I have to wash before my wife find her way home"

[@whitecreamymilk8436]

@@inserisciunnome true egoism

[@notyourbusiness5530]

​@@Wright805 At one point, the Sith were an entire alien species who had no association with the dark side. And when the sith eventually became known as followers of the dark side, many sith had no actual sith blood. Labels evolve with the progression of time.

[@ThatDangBee]

Darth Vectivus was definitely a good example of a "good" sith. He cared about those around him and even died of old age surrounded by his friends and family. He used his sith abilities to further his career and interests, but when a mine he operated began to effect his employees and those above it due to the dark side energy within, he shut it down rather than risk the welfare of his workers. He was only ruthless in his pursuit of furthering his business ventures but was entirely a normal and rational person. He didn't really care about obtaining immense power and had a very strong code of ethics, so much so that as a force ghost, he tried to convince a jedi knight to slay him and save the lives of innocents, becoming angered only when she adamantly refused to do so, even after he took the shape of Palpatine.

[@concept5631]

I always interpreted Vectivus as being outside the active line of the Baneite Sith Order and was doing his own thing. His hunger for power could've taken the form of a hunger for knowledge.

[@hunterkiller1440]

Sounds like what a tortured good guy would be like.

[@daydreamdirty]

Precisely. In Sweet Home one of the concepts introduced is that one of the main characters became a monster who helped the humans who then became a good example to those around him when they became to monsterify. Tragedy has to be a big part of this or else it never happens and then you get the traditional “NEED MOE POWA! 💥!!!” Sith that seem to dominate.

[@shanedavidson1021]

@@daydreamdirty sweet home was great but the live action wasn't so good from what I heard.

[@hardcoreholman303]

@Godded Modded what?

[@daydreamdirty]

@@shanedavidson1021 some definitely weren’t good but the others were. The action was there but nothing that kept out of me once the initial concept was hammered into place which was monsterfication.

[@Guerrilla_Grodd]

“Only a Sith deals in absolutes.” _- Obi-Wan Kenobi_ Geetsly's is a Sith: CONFIRMED

[@92HazelMocha]

“Only a Sith deals in absolutes” is itself an absolute; *Obi-Wan was a Sith*

[@arikutin1032]

@@92HazelMocha you speak so absolutely. Perhaps you are a Sith, as well.

[@KrampusDerWilde]

@@arikutin1032 Absolutely right... or left?

[@khairi26]

Absolutely Grey

[@samscorch8252]

"I think *everyone* is a sith lord"

[@DebFiloriBurrous]

I think darth vectivus is good example that you don't have to resort to destruction or conquering to spread corruption to all life around you. In lot of ways vectivus brought a lot of harm to galaxy by simply learning and preserving the sith teachings.

[@kingnamor7777]

I agree. From what you describe is basically not a "True Sith." But his specific actions were inherently bad for the galaxy and his surroundings.

[@crunkers_]

I feel like he probably did some evil white collar crimes. Or greed related crimes. Everyone talks about him being super good, but we know many sith during the rule of 2 had secret identities. It was probably like a palpatine situation where everybody thought he was a just a businessman and maybe he even donated to charity to make himself look good. He probably used his business on the sly to do some shady shit and backroom deals to gain power. Maybe rather than being nice he was just more power hungry than ruthless. Not as easy to gain power when everyone hates you for being openly sith-like.

[@Dont_care_4_U]

“The answer to our title question is simple NO” Me: only a Sith speaks in absolutes

[@SmashingCapital]

*deals

[@generalkenobi7148]

*"Hello There! Happy May The 4th to each one of you my Friends!"*

[@sambinoman]

And with you.

[@piotrskawinski6471]

Roger, roger! :D

[@mastercrafter2252]

GENRAL KENOBI. A surprise for sure but a welcome one.

[@generalkenobi7148]

*"Thank you kindly my friends!"*

[@Mr.PepeSilvia]

"obi-wan quote"

[@lilmootncj]

Bane actually killed his dad by accident. It all happened while he was dreaming. What he saw was a red hand, extend from his room into the living room, where his dad was sleeping. When he awoke, his dad was dead. He had a heart attack. TL/DR: Darth Bane used the force while he was asleep to inadvertently kill his dad.

[@AndrewSmoot]

I mean, his dad kinda deserved it, being an abusive a**hole and all.

[@Kareszkoma]

​@@AndrewSmoot Ye, but what if he wouldn't have been? Would this trigger normally as dark side powers develop? Killing someone you love? What if your wife and kid would be sleeping out there? Is this unconscious thing.. or a darkside thing?

[@sebas8225]

@@Kareszkoma If you are living in a shit environment that feeds the darkside, it´s definitely a Darkside thing and people forget it wasnt just the Dad that got killed, Bane also killed a few republic soldiers after winning Sabac, they were also triggered into violence, which is just like we see a planet like Nar shadaa doing to it´s inhabitants as well, bad environments are steeped in Darkside and Bane was a victim of those, Exar Kunn also fell on one of those environments as well, only Yoda and a few high level Jedi post training could actually endure living in a darkside environment without succumbing to it´s dark influence.

[@isaiahvaldez3330]

Ha

[@jakealter5504]

@@sebas8225 he actually only killed one of them and that was after they attacked him, it was self defense

[@orangesoda4535]

The fact that light side endings for the Sith origins in swtor exists is proof enough for me, even if they're non-canon. At the very least, they suggest that there is a way for it to happen.

[@felonyx5123]

A good person who is a member of the Sith order and a good person who is a true follower of Sith philosophy are two different things. Many light side Sith choices in swtor either willfully misinterpret or completely ignore Sith teachings.

[@luclin92]

@@felonyx5123 I kinda like that many other sith lightside choices is also more about not wasting resources (since there is a war going on). Or just not do needless suffering of those below you. But It kinda falls apart Later on. Still I like the idea of not being nuts, but thinking more long term. Still by doing that you aren't true sith since you aren't doing all in your power to increase your own power

[@ericpaunovic3579]

who can dislike sith when theres lana

[@jmgonzales7701]

Arent there dark jedis?

[@luclin92]

@@jmgonzales7701 jupp that is basically any force user that did not follow the sith code, but where dark side users

[@mitchryan257]

Not all Jedi live up to the ideals, Luke in the extended universe even changed the Jedi order so was he not really a Jedi? Couldn’t it work out the same for Sith?

[@decepticonxhunter4850]

The fact that Vectivus was stated to be a Dark Lord inherently means he committed at least 2 murders, corrupted the very fabric of nature, and preserved an evil ideology for future generations to do the same. In order for a person to be a Dark Lord, they had to have been fully committed to what is an inherently evil ideology.

[@RoyalFusilier]

Now I want, and I'm sure there was a story somewhere, about Luke encountering a long lived Jedi from the Old Order who basically berates him for changing things. I know there were Jedi who survived Order 66 who joined the New Order willingly. The tough part is that for most of the lifespan of Legends, there was no such thing as Order 66, which is why we don't see a ton of stuff about the canonical Clone Wars back then.

[@galaxy-eyesgarchomp9478]

Darth Vectivus was not a "good" sith, but he was also not a typical sith. He did kill his master and emotional attachment, kept the sith going, and from what I understand even put his business expertise on a sith holocron. However, he also as far as we know wasn't a full blown monster like many other sith. I suppose you could say Darth Vectivus was more lawful evil, compared to many other sith being chaotic evil.

[@jacobnoelle8428]

He was evil but not bloodthirsty

[@torg2126]

@@jacobnoelle8428 Lawful Evil: almost every functional government, Lawful Neutral: the rest of the functional governments. Chaotic Evil: warlord states, Chaotic neutral: your average commune. Chaotic Good: unknown.

[@dekkarmcgowan1423]

Imagine being a young aspiring sith apprentice and searching through a maze of deadly traps and force related puzzles to find a holocron and what you get is "Hi, Darth Vectivus here with Oxyclean"

[@galaxy-eyesgarchomp9478]

@@dekkarmcgowan1423 I would just say, this has to be a joke right?

[@Holuunderbeere]

@@torg2126 chaotic good are self sufficent communes

[@agsilverradio2225]

Question: Are sith always evil? ... Premise: "For the sake of objectivity, light = good, dark = evil." ... Conclution: "Sith use the dark side, so yes, they are all evil." ... That's some circular logic there!

[@scienceandponies]

It's mire all the murder and slavery. The phosophy is built on extreme egoism and the idea that the strong are justified in doing anything they want to the weak, who deserve whatever happens to them by virtue of their being unable to stop it. That sounds like pretty functional definition of evil.

[@fjnordthedwarf4004]

@@scienceandponies Ye. I feel like the better question rather than 'is being a sith evil' is 'is following the dark side evil', as following the dark side is really just using the power of strong emotions to take from the Force, instead of giving themselves to it like Jedi do. Following the dark side isn't inherently evil, but being a Sith is to follow their philosophy, which is basically social darwinism taken to every possible extreme, and yeah, that's pretty damn close to pure evil.

[@dutch_asocialite]

I will point out that, through this logic, it is possible to excuse some genuine Sith as good by making mention of the Light Sith, so it's not all bunk.

[@dungeonguy88]

The Dark Side is inherently about warping the flow of the Force for the sake of power, and ignoring all the damage this causes to others along the way. That is inherently selfish and evil. Just wielding the Dark Side makes the galaxy a shittier place. Just about any planet that played home to a Dark Side order can attest that, Korriban and Dathomir being fine examples of what the Dark Side does to the world.

[@HandlesAreStupid2024]

Your premise extrapolated: Evil could hide in the light. Reality: Nope.

[@mikbdee2186]

2:50 . Early Je'daii used Dark and Light side both for a long time. As far as I'm aware things didn't get bad until people started favoring one side over another and decided to go to war about it. Can't really agree with you on this point. Even in canon we had Bendu. A highly powerful Force wielder who admitted to being neither light or dark. And he lived it. He helped Kanaan for no real reward or significant benefit to himself and acted out of anger when the empire attacked his planet.

[@John-Doe-Yo]

Isn’t it spelled Jedi?

[@prodigypenn]

@@John-Doe-Yo no, the jedi came after the jed'aii

[@John-Doe-Yo]

@@prodigypenn what’s the difference between the 2?

[@prodigypenn]

@@John-Doe-Yo the jed'aii existed before kightsabers, and also they used both sides of the force, not just light or dark

[@John-Doe-Yo]

@@prodigypenn Ah okay. Thanks dude.

[@Vitrolin2408]

This is the most delusional answer to the question. Nevermind that many of the sith spirits of the past helped Jedi fight off against Palpatine and Vader. Nevermind that figures like Marr and Jadus legitimately cared for the well-being of their people. Nevermind that Revan took the mantle; and killed millions to save trillions. Nevermind that Marka Ragnos was actually beloved instead of just feared. Nevermind that Praven repeatedly aided Jedi he had defeated in battle; rather than just kill them or torture for information. Nevermind that almost every era of sith despises someone who uses the Sith as a tool to gain power for its own sake; rather than to help the Sith as a whole. Nevermind that the Jedi have produced more Fallen-Jedi that have killed people; than the Sith have that have killed people. Nevermind that the first thing Ajunta Pall did when landing on Korriban was to establish a near 3,000 year golden age of advancement and prosperity. You also butchered the philosophy of the Sith. Sith Philosophy is one that believes, if you have the power to enact change; you have the responsibility to see it done. Jedi Philosophy is one that believes, just because you have power; does not entitle you to use it. If a man is starving; a Jedi will give him a fish; and then leave. If a man is starving, a Sith will force that man to learn to feed himself, and then leave. Both Philosophies are inherently objectively flawed; and subjectively evil depending on point of view. If you actually believe Jedi are purely good; than your narrow-mind will only see the Sith as evil.

[@xellanchaos5386]

God damn, that's not only deep and more believable, but an idea I can truly get behind. Take this like, damn you!

[@cookingonthego9422]

Totali so

[@michielvandersijs6257]

No, the Sith philosphy is essentially fascism and by design creates evil. It suggests you have the right to impose your solution on people even if they don't want it, simply because you have the power to do so. That almost always leads to more problems, which is why imposing your solutions almost always requires brute force and repression to enforce it. Sure, certain individuals may not be mass murdering tyrants they are still part of a system who by design creates tyrants. The few who do good within such a system do so in spite of the Sith system, not because of it. They are the exception, not the rule. Jedi meanwhile practice restraint. While yes, that does mean they may not always solve the fundamental issue that creates a problem, they also avoid imposing their solution on the problem, which would likely lead to more problems if they didn't. Just look at history for the many examples where someone forced a solution on a group of people who didn't want it and how that only resulted in more problems. The Jedi instead let people figure out how to fix their own problems which results in a far more stable and sustainable outcome. The Jedi that fall to the dark side and turn into mass murdering tyrants are exactly the kind of Jedi who are arrogant enough to believe they know the solution to everyone's problems and should be given the right implement that solution no matter what. Just look at Anakin before he actually turned to the dark side. While yes, both philosophies have their issues and both philosophies can lead to good and bad outcomes, its clear that the Sith philosophy has far more issues and leads to very bad outcomes on a far more consistent basis.

[@Vitrolin2408]

@@michielvandersijs6257 First Great Schism, Jedi murdered all the people who argued some of the tenants of the Jedi code itself; pushing them into the far reaches of space. Great Hyperspace War; the entirety of the Jedi Order hunted the Sith Purebloods across the galaxy and attempted to exterminate them into extinction. The Great Hunt; Jedi hunted down anyone recording or documenting artefacts or writings of the Sith. The Jedi actively, repeatedly; seek to exterminate things that go against them. The Sith fundamentally only wanted the freedom to exist; and 25,000 years of consecutive, repeating; extinction attempts made them rightfully vengeful towards the Jedi. Outside of the Jedi-Sith conflicts; the civilians living under Sith-rule have better quality of life than civilians under Republic-Rule. The whole point of Jedi-Sith debates is neither is inherently good or bad objecitvely; they are both subjectively better or worse than eachother depending on the individuals values of what they want vs whats being offered/forced.

[@michielvandersijs6257]

@@Vitrolin2408 That is a very generous and one sided look at the history of the Sith. Its also largely irrelevant. Proving that the Jedi can be dicks doesn't mean the Sith philosophy isn't fundamentally evil. Translated to practical terms, the Sith philosophy advocates force user supremacy and social darwinism. The freedom the Sith seek fundamentally comes at the cost of the freedom of everyone who aren't strong enough to claim it themselves. It also means that the Sith will inevitably come into conflict with the wider galaxy as their quest for 'freedom' drives an expansionist and imperialistic mindset. Hence why Sith constantly create expansionist empires whenever they are given the chance. It becomes therefor the correct choice to try and hunt down and exterminate the Sith whenever possible, before they are given a chance to establish themselves and a much bloodier conflict becomes inevitable.

[@Emperor-Rubrum]

Every Light Side Sith SWTOR player disagrees. We aren't evil!

[@fergushebbert817]

what's that stand for?

[@torg2126]

@@fergushebbert817 Star Wars The Old Republic

[@Asghaad]

not completely, Light Side Sith will do evil if its necessary, use whatever method is needed to achieve the goal of making the universe a better place. Unlike Jedi we will not shy from murder or torture if there is no other way to save lives. The GOAL is what makes a Light side Sith one, not the methods because Sith is still a Sith, using Dark side and pure raw emotion to bend the universe to his will BUT unlike Dark Side Sith that do this for theyr own selfish goals, Light Side Sith will use theyr power for OTHERS that is the purest defining characteristic of Light side Sith.

[@fattiger6957]

IMO a Sith can be not evil, but they can never be good. In other words, a 'good' Sith won't engage in the casual cruelty or underhanded tactics, but will kill or inflict pain when they deem it necessary. If they truly follow the code, they will amass power selfishly. But that doesn't necessarily mean they have to be a tyrant. One can be selfish while inspiring followers and benefiting those followers. I would actually like to see a Sith version of Spartacus.

[@Emperor-Rubrum]

@@fergushebbert817 Star Wars the Old Republic

[@randycheow4268]

So the dark side is basically like an addictive drug

[@pumpkinvirus7473]

Basically,that's why the gray jedi try to moderate its use

[@TheDarkFuryKnight]

I mean yeah we even saw it in ep3 with anakin after going to the darkside he basically went on trip afterwards he wanted more power.

[@gary9346]

I think that's just an analogy

[@BunThighsLol]

Personally, I'm surprised that you just thought of that instead of sooner.

[@Ray-ps4im]

The Dark Side of the force is a pathway drug that some consider to be... unnatural.

[@treyjowers]

I feel like Vectivus was an extreme outlier and an example of the dark side being wielded by someone with a strong enough will, and the wisdom to be cautious. Maybe the dark side is a constant test to resist the corruption of its power as someone wields it, and he never let himself be consumed. If that is the case then I feel like he wasn't responsible for the later sith being weak and failing. All those lives would be on their hands.

[@brucewayne2558]

Perhaps he he selfishly desired a peaceful life?

[@darklex5150]

​@@brucewayne2558 who doesn't?

[@darthauthorone6329]

The Sith code, like the Jedi's, is open to interpretation. There is also the matter of perfection. Do you have to be a perfect Jedi or Sith or you are not one at all? For example, if a Jedi mind tricks someone instead of patiently and honestly explain themselves and surrender to the judgment of the one they are trying to persuade are they a bad Jedi or stop being one at all? Also, what about a Jedi or Sith who makes changes? At the time of the high republic jedi behaved different then they did 200 years later. Likewise, the Sith code itself encourages becoming powerful enough to free yourself from rules. While the Sith, in general, are known to take action outside of societies rules. Yes, the Sith seek power but there are no rules about how they get it. It's true that the most famous and powerful Sith who were described in history as Sith heroes of a sort to be emulated. By examples, such Sith would think any other to be weak if they did not to take whatever power they could quickly and with violence or at least murder if they could get away with it. In theory then, a Sith would still be a Sith even if they did not lie, cheat, steal, and murder; just not a 'good' or successful one. Consider Jedi such as Mace Windu who would have murdered Darth Sidous while he was Unarmed and defeated. Also, Qui-Gon was frequently at odds with the Jedi high council such that he was not asked to be on it because of his radical views and beliefs, and determination to take Anakin as his apprentice even though doing so was braking the rules. I ask you, were these men suddenly not Jedi just because they did unconventional things or took exception to the Jedi code that or their own interpretation. I'm saying, if Qui-Gon can be a jedi then there can be such a thing as a "good" Sith. As for the specific rule of killing meant that a Sith apprentice might never be a master unless they kill their master but that does not mean they are not a Sith, just not a Sith master. Also, killing a loved one is also has an exception in the case of Darth Maul as he was adopted by Sidious. He did attempt to strike down his master but did not kill him. Sidious deemed his attempt to kill him as fulfilling the test of "sacrifice." So it would seem even only attempting is enough regardless if you successfully kill. I see thr true sacrifice is letting go of someone to pursue success instead of happiness. Because happiness sort of makes a person feel contentment With where they are instead of ambition which makes one feel hungry for something greater.

[@HappyBeezerStudios]

And then there was a time before the Rule of Two, so the whole "kill your master to become the new master" thing wasn't always there. If one Sith has the power impose such a rule (because they are so powerful and uncontested that they can just do what they want), then surely another one could get rid of it for the same reasons. And if a Sith Lord decides they want to help others because they are strong enough and that is what they want, it is their position as Sith Lord because they have the power to do so. Isn't that an important part of Sith philosophy, doing what you want, because you are free from anything holding you back. Just that most want to attain personal power and influence, usually by setting themselves up as dictators and emperors, but that doesn't has to be the case. Sith want the force user to let go of someone by killing them, Jedi don't want anyone that close to begin with. Sith use their raw power to control others, Jedi manipulate them with mind tricks. The differences aren't so big after all.

[@xellanchaos5386]

You got it backwards with Qui-Gon. They actually asked and wanted Qui-Gon to be on the Council, but he always refused, just like how he initially refused to take Obi-Wan as his Padawan, though that was in part of his previous Padawan falling to the Dark Side.

[@brettcarter5954]

@@xellanchaos5386 I haven't read much on Qui-Gon. I just recall things about him from the first movie. Also, some of the book. I thought Obi-Wan told Qui-Gon that the council "would" have asked him to join them on the council if he were more compliant with their decisions and methods. My guess is they wanted his feedback and ideas while only considering them on a case by case basis. My opinion is that they wanted someone who thought differently from them but I also believed they were afraid of change or risk. Its like Ultron said, in Age of Ultron, "You want to protect the world but you don't want it to change."

[@ericmorris3948]

The Sith code can only really be good when applied to an anarchic situation. If you follow the sith code as a peasant fighting for yourself against a tyrannical dictatorship then your technically justified. However if you achieves victory your just going to replace the dictatorship. Otherwise you would not gain the power of your victory and not be free. The Sith are also exclusionary. The force will set ME free not you.

[@darthauthorone6329]

@@ericmorris3948 Well written. I agree with most of what you say. Sort of the Sith operating style can be "good" situationally.

[@oddnerd7278]

Peace is a lie, there is only passion. Through passion, I gain strength. Through strength, I gain power. Through power, I gain victory. Through victory, my chains are broken. The force shall free me. - The Sith code (referenced from SW:TOR)

[@fattiger6957]

That could actually be inspiring, especially the last line. To slaves of the Sith Empire, it's something to aspire to. I wish the Inquisitor storyline went more deeply into them fulfilling the Sith code because that's the character who best embodies it.

[@stevecox5471]

Well said.

[@slaw2468]

Or kotor

[@SuperOverlord94]

And then... you will be broken.

[@w.devarien3154]

NNNNEERRRRRRRDDD! 😂

[@masterduda013]

I mean look at dooku, he was extremely misunderstood. And no one believed him when he told obiwan everything in episode 2 about what was going to happen. He had the right intentions just did it in a poor way and should've never teamed up with sidious. Revan I could say was in the same vein, he had the right intentions on going into the mandolarian wars but was tainted on malachor v and finding the star forge. In the end though he's the goat all around

[@Trathien-]

He wasnt tainted, he CHOSE the dark side to make sure that the republic and the jedi survived in the long term, he did bad things for the greater good, he wasnt evil

[@masterduda013]

@@Trathien- how so, it's explained in kotor 2 how malachor v changed him, treya explains it that whatever happened on malachor v turned him to the dark side and them finding the star maps and star forge

[@Trathien-]

@@masterduda013 1. Treya isnt all knowing And its also stated in kotor 1 or 2 that revan turned to the dark side and fought the republic because he had to, if he didnt the future sith empire would rise and crush the republic

[@masterduda013]

@@Trathien- what do you mean, she was his master at one point, how wouldn't she know.

[@masterduda013]

@@Trathien- he went into the Mandolorian wars because the jedi council wouldn't do it, that's not why he turned to the Darkside. The events of malachor v and the star forge are what ultimately led him to the Darkside and malak. And then he was brainwashed back to the light side to stop what he started and stop the sith from taking over again

[@nerdyshenanigans6988]

Peace is a lie, There is only passion Through passion I gain strength Through strength I gain power Through power i gain victory Through victory my chains will be broken The Force Shall free me In this sith quote it admits there is no true peace in the world besides in ourselves. There is passion. Passion means to care about something besides ourselves. The sith sacrifice is where you lose your passion. Then your consumed with greed. If you stick to the vowel your passion and love will empower you to push forward for those you care about. Through that power you will gain victory against those who planned to harm those you care about. That Victory isn't greed but a release of your chains. The fear and anger that can cloud your mind is no longer there for you have tapped into the force and flowed with it to protect. Young ones learn emotions are fine if you do not let them consume you and lose sight of the force.

[@Kaiservondonau]

That is what the one who wrote sith code probably meant

[@kuershatkurt6003]

you are mistaking passion with compassion. entire sith code is selfish, all about "I"

[@Kaiservondonau]

@@kuershatkurt6003 so now saying I is selfish?

[@kuershatkurt6003]

@@Kaiservondonau straw man for the win 😂

[@seanbullamore4713]

This argument about Vectivus is sooo weak lol. “Oh hes evil because of the actions of others” ok there bud. And hmm he killed two people and that makes him evil. Ok so that makes obi wan and yoda evil too huh?

[@kingnamor7777]

That's a good valid point. Although he should have prevented his Sith apprentice and future Rule of Two Sith from becoming "True Sith." You know, becoming evil mass murders, desiring to control and rule the galaxy and destroying the Jedi order.

[@seanbullamore4713]

@@kingnamor7777 I feel you but let's flip it and look at legends and obi wans Dismal handling of A'Sharad hetts attacks on the Tatooine colonizers. Afterwards A'Sharad became Krayt and killed so many people. Was Obi-Wan to blame? I say yes so I concede to your argument lmaooo

[@seanbullamore4713]

@@kingnamor7777 my point is Obi Wan ain't pimpin

[@kingnamor7777]

@@seanbullamore4713 True.

[@nonayurbusiness6544]

For the one example you gave, that means that Obi-Wan, Qui-Gon Jin, and Yoda were all evil too, because they kept Anakin alive and trained him, even knowing that something was wrong with him.

[@SammytheTongue]

That's a false equivalency. There was nothing intrinsically *wrong* with Anakin just because he became evil, and the same goes for those who taught him. He was manipulated by Palpatine who used his extreme fear of loss due to his lack of a father figure and loss of his mother when he was so young to corrupt him later on. So Obi-Wan, Qui-Gon and Yoda aren't necessarily evil. While they should've done much, much more to help Anakin in his emotional distress. His traumatic experiences led him down a very dark path. This doesn't make them evil for training him. Did Qui-Gon, Obi-Wan, or Yoda slaughter almost every single Jedi on Coruscant? No, Qui-Gon was dead and the other two weren't even there when it happened. While they did ignore his silent cries for help, that doesn't make them evil. Although, it certainly makes them blind for sure. They don't know what's going on because they've literally lost (or never had in some cases, looking at you Ki-Adi Mundi) the ability to see when someone is fundamentally broken, because they're all broken in some way.

[@JustaGuy_Gaming]

@@SammytheTongue Yes and no. They knew Anakin had a lot of power, a lot of emotion and ignored his slow descent over the years. Especially during the war. Plus lets face it more evil was probably done in the universe by fallen Jedi than Sith. After all for most of history the Sith were never more than two people. Mean while at any given time there could be a dozen Fallen or corrupt jedi running around. Not to mention if the line of succession in the rule of two ever broke it tended to be a jedi who found a Sith holocron and restored the line.

[@ibn_ismail]

@@JustaGuy_Gaming It would not be much different if said fallen Jedi never became Jedi. They would still sway towards either side of the Force depending on their circumstances.

[@somersault1123]

@@SammytheTongue It isn't a false equivalency. But it is false. Vectivus also didn't slaughter every Jedi on Coruscant. But one could still argue that he didn't try to stop it. And Yoda, Qui Gon and Obi-wan were presented with very blatant red flags surrounding Anakin but allowed or forced his training regardless. The reality is that it wasn't Vectivus' place to stop the Sith and while that may have made him a not good guy, he could still have been neutral or mostly good but kind of evil/neutral. Which is mostly what people are referring to when they talk about 'good' Sith. The Sith in question doesn't have to do everything in their power to prevent all evil in all time and space as the video suggests. But merely not be an edgy douche all the time.

[@nopeace3689]

@@SammytheTongue They stripped him from his mother and let her die before his eyes, forbade him to fall in love and literally was going to let his wife die, let the only Father figure he ever knew Qui-Gon jinn dye who saved him from slavery, he used him to betray the Republic countless times and lock up prisoners against the law as well as commit treason against the chancellor, we're going to kill ahsoka though it is against the Jedi code to kill. And let countless people being enslaved, and intentionally let's their padawans make fun of him during his training, despite knowing all of this he still served them and they still withheld information from but yeah man Anakin was evil. I mean that wouldn't cause anyone to turn right right 😂👍🤔

[@creepyczar6423]

Geetsly: hope to see you in the next video Me: *nervously checks web camera*

[@WalkerBohAus]

Geetsly's: "The Dark Side was a tumor on the Force" Hmm, that doesn't seem to track. The Dark Side is presented as an equal and opposing part of the Light Side, not an aberration. The ancient Je'daii, whose name was corrupted and co-opted by the Jedi order, saw strict adherence to either side as a failure to maintain balance and would exile those who failed to a location strong in the opposing side of the Force until they regained balance. The Father was the living embodiment of the Force, using both sides in concert, while both of his children embodied only their chosen half to such extremes that they had to be contained away from the universe. The Sith practices represent only the extreme aspects which feed the Dark Side only and likewise the Jedi practices also locked to their extreme. Jedi are taught not to acknowledge emotions and to deny every aspect of their humanity to the point that they lose touch with the very peoples they claim to serve, incapable of empathy or compassion. Likewise, Sith focus on their own lust for power and control that they are incapable of advancing that power and knowledge on any grand scale. Each side's narrow focus cripples them from the very thing they're so narrowly focused on. A perfect example of this was Revan. His compassion for and connection to the people led him to take action when the Jedi were content to let the Republic burn, acting as a true servant to the living Force. Likewise, by opening himself to all of the teachings of the Force, he gained more power than any Sith, with the possible exception of the Sith Emperor himself. The better question would be, "Was it possible to be a 'good' Dark Side adept?" And the answer to that question is yes. Just like it's possible to be an evil Jedi, so indifferent to the joys and pains of the people that their lives cease to hold genuine value and you simply watch as they are slaughtered. The Dark Side isn't the manifestation of evil, nor is the Light side the manifestation of good. They are two halves of a whole which cry out for unity and balance.

[@David-zh7rj]

Wrong, George Lucas DIRECTLY contradict that. Sith are inherently evil. Period.

[@jzi4]

Darth Vader fulfilled his role as the chosen one to bring balance to the force when he destroyed the Jedi cult and killed the last Sith Lord.

[@mahguvnah7403]

"Hmm, that doesn't seem to track. The Dark Side is presented as an equal and opposing part of the Light Side, not an aberration." No, it's presented exactly as a cancer.

[@knghtcmdr]

@@jzi4 Correction, he did that when he destroyed the Sith and restored the Force to it's natural state, the Light. REad the lore dude.

[@CatholicDragoon]

@@knghtcmdr Bullsh*t, it makes far more logical sense that destroying both orders, that had been creating so much strife and conflict over millennia, was the real meaning of 'bringing balance' than merely suppressing one side.

[@kevinhansen8211]

Vectivus served his part in the grand plan, he was there to gather knowledge, and build the orders financial resources. Not all Sith were meant to be conquerors, not if they wanted to build up their strength, others likely had similar tasks, though we know little of her reign, Darth Cognus was a precog, and likely used that ability to advance her order. Each lord had their role to play in Bane's plan. The only question I really have about Vectivus was how his apprentice saw him, it must have taken a great deal of discipline for the apprentice not to simply look for an opportunity, find it, and then simply kill his master.

[@sebas8225]

My guess is that Vectivus, didnt have as many openings to be killed off as other sithlords, Plagueis for instance only went down case his paranoia made him use the force to stop sleeping which eventually Palps turned against him, Tenebrous wanted to be killed, etc... assuming Vectivus doesnt want to be killed by his apprentice, or doesnt showcase any openings, there´s nothing the apprentice can do but wait for him to die of old age, this is actually something addressed with Bane and Zannah, where Zannah was forced to fight Bane at his place and decision, simply because he went for that sweet imortality attempt, had Vectivus went for one of those and his apprentice would´ve to kill him as well.

[@barnabassebesteny1490]

Chris Avellone: whispers into Revan's ear who is about to say yes Valkorian:covers Revan's mouth Drew Karpyshn: That's a no!

[@TY-km8hj]

This should be top comment

[@michaelandreipalon359]

So, who's going to say the Mathematician's Answer? The Exile?

[@amohammadv1387]

Influence lost : kreia

[@emberfist8347]

Chris is pretty wrong there are no such thing as good Sith

[@TY-km8hj]

@@emberfist8347 depends what u define as "good". Revan was definitely altruistic and had a somewhat good end goal from a certain pov, but his methods weren't.

[@juanpablouriascruz1411]

"Good is a point of view" - Palpatine BTW, May the 4th be with You

[@charliegetsay7441]

And as Jack Sparrow says "cruel is a matter of perspective"

[@CollinMcLean]

Yeah but he was also one of the biggest monsters of the galaxy so... a bit of a nihilistic justification... Like when the Joker says that he and Batman are two sides of the same coin or the same... No, you aren't, you're a psycho who blew up a hospital...

[@charliegetsay7441]

@@CollinMcLean but they are. Batman is just the version of the Joker who didn't let the bad take over also Sheev was attempting to create a more unified galaxy than before so if anything you just made a ridiculous claim about not having the moral high ground. PUN INTENDED

[@CollinMcLean]

@@charliegetsay7441 Which he did with tons of unnecessary bloodshed and for his own power hungry reasons. And saying that Batman is a version of the Joker who didn't turn bad is very much being vastly different.

[@mitchryan257]

It’s true, “good” is subjective. Usually it comes down to good is what beneficial to you and bad is what’s detrimental to you. That’s why moral debates get so heated.

[@kotyissocool]

Your argument as to why vectivus wasn’t a good Sith is like saying you can’t be a good Christian unless you plant your crops in a very specific way or kill everyone who disagrees with your beliefs, or you can’t be a good Jew unless you view every human that wasn’t a Jew as an animal fit for slaughter, or you can’t be a good Muslim unless you kill the nonbelievers. Suffice it to say: you don’t have to follow every antiquated, random aspect of your religion to be a good member of your religion.

[@knghtcmdr]

You have to hold on to the truth in order to be a true Christian. If you don't you've fallen into heresy, and therefore committing a grievous sin.

[@ilyes6569]

Killing nonbelievers is not part of actual Islam

[@kmeanxneth]

the sith way says you can do what ever you want, it Doesn't Say anything about if you want to be good XD

[@BlankPicketSign]

​@@knghtcmdr I'm sorry to say but I am completely unconvinced that "Christianity follows the truth", given how much of Christian fundamental beliefs are incompatible, or out right contradicted, by basic observation. Reality itself disagrees. Everyone should still love their neighbor and be kind to one another, but the details of Christian teachings, I.E. Creation Myths, Resurrections, Magic Wine and Fish Spells, The concept of Sin; are all nonsense.

[@dgalloway107]

You can't be a good Christian. Full stop.

[@tenshiginakuch2388]

Jorund Cache, My Sith Juggernaut in SWTOR: Sweats nervously...

[@filmaru8556]

The was actually a good Sith and her name was Lord Arkadia. She ruled a planet of multiple species, allowing her people to live their life and never fear that they were useless. As sad in the book Knight Errant, she ruled a society of chaos so that there could be order. It was also during this time that many Legends Planets were taken over by a Family of Sith.

[@Julian-pw5mv]

Calling her good is a stretch. She is not a complete monster at best.

[@filmaru8556]

@@Julian-pw5mv True but it's as close as we can get

[@vitorpereira9515]

Arkadia Calimondra, i know her. Her entire family is very...colorful. Lord Daiman is interesting isn't? He was based on Alexander the great.

[@filmaru8556]

@@vitorpereira9515 I figured. Either way they're all evil in their own way despite their intentions

[@BlackBanditXX]

Ah, yes, the 'No True Scotsman' fallacy.

[@CaspianNomad]

A couple of things I disagree with in this video, firstly being Bane's Sith sacrifice being his father. I'd argue it was the father and two sons he killed to sustain his own life. I disagree with the take that the Sith are inherintly evil by virtue of being Sith, sorry but that conclusion seems narrow minded. When we look at the Sith code itself, it is nothing more than egoism similar to anarchist philosopher Max Stirner. A person can believe might is right, and that morality and rights are human constructs without actually being evil and doing harm to people. There's nothing inheritely wrong with the Sith code except that it is most often interpreted in such a way it gives the Sith the belief they can coerse and control who they like. I'd argue there's much the Sith get right in their philosophy, even if their overall actions are wrong. I'm not going to type it all here but overall I disagree with this overall take. Doesn't mean it's a bad take though, it gives a lot of food for thought.

[@mahguvnah7403]

"I disagree with the take that the Sith are inherintly evil by virtue of being Sith, sorry but that conclusion seems narrow minded. When we look at the Sith code itself, it is nothing more than egoism similar to anarchist philosopher Max Stirner" After all that you make his case for him.

[@mockingbird4346]

@@mahguvnah7403 You clearly didnt grasp what OP was saying. The sith philosophy is might makes right, the egoism he mentioned, but that's not inherently evil. If a sith lord decided they were just going to wipe out anyone who violates certain moral principles like hurting innocent people because they have the power to do so, that's still might makes right, the only difference is we would agree with the conclusion that person came to. The thing that makes sith lords almost entirely evil throughout the history of the series is that when granted power and the ability to use it however they want, they use it for evil things, but that's not a necessity to use the dark side.

[@andrewshepherd1633]

I agree that it wasn't his father, however, I think it was Kas'im that was the true sacrifice. He was the only person aside from Githany that Bane had any real attachment to.

[@WhiteFangofWar]

Lest we forget after Vectivus came Caedus, who went into Sithdom with the very best of intentions to do everything 'for the greater good of the galaxy'... and we saw how that turned out. One of Darth Bane's musings in his novels has it right: Drawing on the dark side inevitably results in diminished rationality which creates stronger emotions which leads to further loss of rationality. Even the most noble-hearted being would struggle with losing the ability to reason with others when brute-forcing them is so much easier.

[@CommissarDan]

By your logic, the Jedi are evil too. Their inaction led to many tragedies and have a lot of blood on their hands.

[@arikutin1032]

True, but the Jedi weren't actively trying to cause those tragedies. However much they failed, they were always trying to save lives.

[@Cyborg_Lenin]

Both the sith end jedi are bad. But the but the dark side isnt bad. Its just a part of the force. The light is stagnant, passive and lacking in power while trying to control themselves to a fault. The dark is the opposite. Ambitious, progressive, inovative, yet unstable and uncontrolable, and extreme. The balance in the force isnt between the light and EVEN MORE LIGHT. But between the light and dark. Thats what i think anyway

[@zerumsiru5204]

@@Cyborg_Lenin not to forget that the Jedi used to kidnap children who were force sensitive at one time. Or the fact that Force lightning used to be a light side power, until one of the founders of it turned to the dark side, then another form of force lightning was discovered for Jedi, which would cause permanent physical and mental damage, known as Force Judgement, and could even rapidly age people. Force lightning, you could theoretically recover from, and didn't cause rapid physical aging, nor a permanent stutter or pain for the rest of one's life.

[@Gay_Priest]

That’s the whole point of the prequels, that the Jedi were too far up their own asses to see the mess they were making

[@scienceandponies]

@@zerumsiru5204 They didn't really kidnap children, but they did strongly encourage parents to send to send their force sensitive children away to be trained. I imagine many poor parents jumped on that because their child would be guaranteed to be provided for and they'd get a top notch education and all that. And there's no small amount of prestige associated with the order, so noble families would brag about having one of their kids being trained as a Jedi. It's basically the equivalent of having a kid join the clergy back in the day.

[@spideysg1163]

I’d argue that Darth Tenebrous actually was a good sith, aside from a few bad things he did, he wasn’t an evil sith.

[@Vigriff]

Lana Beniko is also proof of this.

[@spideysg1163]

@@Vigriff yep

[@Uzarran]

@@Vigriff I'd say Darth Marr could also fall into this category, from a certain point of view.

[@CrimsonKamina]

Yep dude literally wanted to eliminate the Jedi by just making them unnecessary by solving all the Galaxy’s problems

[@personman8734]

Honestly when you think about it sith in general default more towards neutral as the entire study is of using the force for what ever you see fit.

[@sandman299us]

In the history of the great schism, a once-proud order named the Je'daii taught that the Force consisted of three sides, the spirits, they lived on the ancient and forgotten world named Tython, two of the sides of the force were named after the moons, the Light was Ashla, and the Dark was Bogan, their teachings were focused on balance, not pure light nor pure dark, but a great conflict divided the order in two, one was the Jedi, and the other much later became the Sith, the Sith just wanted to be left alone, so they could focus their studies of the dark side, but the Jedi would have none of it, they attacked the dark side studying sith and nearly killed them all. The Jedi from that moment on the cause genocides, whole scale murder of entire planets simply because they had a slight connection to the force, they murdered countless civilizations for the sole purpose of only those that follow the light side should survive, this rejection of the Dark Side leads to the imbalance to the force. In fact, it is stated that the Jedi's most important duty is to hunt down and kill the Sith. If you say that those that use the Dark Side as EVIL, then I am sorry to tell you but some of the Jedi Council used the Dark Side of the Force if Dark Side Connection is the root of that Evil then I am sorry to tell you that you just called Grand Master Yoda and Master Mace Windu EVIL. They were both people who studied and use the Dark Side of the Force. Not to mention Master Luke Skywalker. As for the Sith Code: Peace is a lie, there is only Passion, Through Passion, I gain Strength, Through Strength, I gain Power, Through Power, I gain Victory, Through Victory, my chains are broken, The Force shall set me free. At what point does it state that you must follow the Dark Side? The passion I hear you say is a strong emotion, but Passion can be used for good, Passion can lead someone to stand against injustice, to defend the helpless, to fight for the good of the ordinary citizen. Passion fuels the fight for liberty and independence, as for Sith using and allowing slavery, well sorry to tell you, but the Galactic Republic did nothing to stop the slave trade, in fact, Anakin was a slave. As defenders of the Republic, why didn't the Jedi stop the practice of Slavery? Because the Senate said it was not illegal?

[@ChristianProtossDragoon]

lol The Sith perception of passion is selfish ambition.

[@richarddaniel3454]

@@ChristianProtossDragoon Many a philosophy or culture are bended to serve selfish ambition. The Sith naturally play with fire, but they do not necessarily reject the balance if one is just to look at their code. Sith philosophy/Sith perception is what I would call Sith culture- the culture surrounding a philosophy will often be the bigger determining factor on whether or not the philosophy will be used to perpetuate evil than the teachings themselves. The teachings of seeking Victory so that one can be free can also be interpreted as seeking Victory over the self. Achieving balance to find the right means to the right ends. Grey Jedi, or light Sith follow this line of reasoning. But the culturing surrounding the code is what makes it, in effect, about selfish ambition. There is a little bit of poetry in Lucas' world that carries commentary to our own, just sucks that the guy was so bad at doing small-scale interactions and stories that his movies totally lost on his own commentary, in my opinion, lol

[@richarddaniel3454]

As a fellow Star Wars nerd and overanalyzer of fiction I think I have to agree with your take. The dark side rejects passivity and acceptance, whereas the light side embraces it. The light side rejects passion and selfish ambition, whereas the dark side embraces it. One requires the good of both of these opposing forces to be a truly good person, in-universe or otherwise, in my eyes.

[@ChristianProtossDragoon]

@@richarddaniel3454 Dude, Sith preach apathy as well. And selfish ambition is linked to apathy.

[@ChristianProtossDragoon]

@@richarddaniel3454 Yeah. The light side rejects ambition. But it does not reject focus and concentration.

[@macwade2755]

Happy New Year, Geetsly!

[@zhenweilai799]

Playing SWOLR as Sith , choosing light side choices be like:

[@H240909]

I would argue that while the teachings of the Sith Order intentionally produced absolute monsters and psychopaths, it was possible for a dark side user to be good. For example, say a dark side user rejected the Sith philosophy, dedicated their life to fighting pirates and slavers, fought actual Sith Lords and corrupted Jedi, and did nothing to extend their life span before dying of natural causes. Wouldn’t the good they did in their life counter whatever minor imbalance they created in the Force by using dark side powers? It’s impossible to stamp out the dark side because it’s a part of the Force itself. Instead Force users should find a symbiosis with it.

[@lucaswinsor4469]

That's the thing though, The Dark side, allegedly, ISN'T a natural part of the force, it's a corruption introduced by people using the force for evil/corrupted means.

[@NorthernNorthdude91749]

@@lucaswinsor4469 The dark side is just as natural as the light. No debate.

[@AlexanderRJaruk]

@@lucaswinsor4469 From the beginning, The Force has been a duality, the Revealing Light, and the Mysterious Darkness. Life and Death are nothing more than two sides of a single coin; without death, new life can't be nourished and grow, Worlds would run out of space to hold it all: no, the light thinks that it is faster than any other thing, but it is wrong, no matter how fast it travels it always finds that the darkness has arrived first, and is waiting for it; yet, at the same time, the darkness can only exist where the light has not yet reached, ever the two must dance together in this way. The light and the dark sides are not enemies, the Jeda'hai, first of all, orders of force users in the Galaxy, understood this fundamental truth, and rejected the idea of focusing on one to the exclusion of the other. But, each side, dark and light both; seeks to subsume those who use it to its will and purpose, and they were no exception, never forget that both the light and the dark tempt with promises of power if you serve their cause, you can spend a lifetime gaining powers from the light, as surely as from the darkness; do not mistake its blandishments for anything else than what they are; an inducement to acquiring pawns of it's own. The darkness can serve the needs of the many and the cause of good as surely as the light: it does so through a medium of death and destruction, but all too often, some things need to be addressed with violence that are abroad in the galaxy.

[@sykune]

@@AlexanderRJaruk well said I have to add through Palpatine used the dark side for his own goals, but old sith would argue that the sith should do as the dark side dictates at least that's what Lord Momin had stated. Palpatine was afraid of the force itself as he realized it had a sentience of sorts. George Lucas original painted the light as good and Dark as Evil, but in star wars the last Jedi Like Explains this is not the case. As did the clone wars show with the daughter of light and brother of Dark. SWTOR also shows that light side Zealot Jedi can be just as dangerous as Sith. Then again Kreia also wanted to murder the force itself as she believed to be the cause of all conflict in the universe.

[@HappyBeezerStudios]

And then we have those like Mace Windu, who used his emotions, putting him close to the dark side, but never falling for it.

[@naiitt7205]

The sith code basically just boils down to "through power we attain freedom". You can be powerful while still being a good person in these kinds of stories, therefore meeting the sith code.

[@HappyBeezerStudios]

And that freedom means they can do pretty much what they want and have the power to back it up. Most so far wanted more power, but that doesn't has to be the case. With power comes strength. If one uses that strength to impose ones own will onto others that are weaker, or protect them, is always a choice.

[@ryuuronin9852]

Geetsly: short answer no. Swtor: so anyway I started trolling.

[@lordnazar6382]

@TK-1912 Did that, but with a Jedi turning dark instead.

[@Tongzhi_BellaLabDog1995]

Peace is fleeting; passion is eternal Through passion, we gain knowledge With knowledge, we take action Through action, we bring justice With justice, our chains are broken The Force shall free us all -Code of the Light Sith

[@blackshogun272]

you make this up or is this somewhere in the actual lore? Genuinely interested. I know about the Light Sith but didn't know if they really had a whole damn code xD

[@SonofKalas22]

This is a hodgepodge of mismatched, conflicting ideas if you sit and think about it.

[@dokcso]

@@SonofKalas22 I mean it does read like communist propaganda, so it not making proper sense is pretty fucking meta

[@SonofKalas22]

@@dokcso haha

[@SonofKalas22]

@Katana_soul_91 it is nonsense though. In the sith code there is a clear and evident progression of concepts. You can see how each concept leads to the next. It describes a path to power. In the jedi code there is a list of dualities with clear opposition to eachother. These are the things to reject and the things to embrace to avoid falling. This has something that sounds similar but lacks clear progression, contrast, and function. Why is peace any more fleeting than passion? How is passion eternal? How does passion lead to knowledge? It doesn't. Not in a way that is fundamental to passion itself. Only if it is passion for knowledge. We know why passion produces strength in the star wars universe. But how does it, in and of itself, lead to knowledge though? It really doesn't. Plenty of people are passionate about things they know nothing about. Its actually more common than the opposite. I could keep going and dissect each phrase like this. Action doesn't necessarily bring justice. Justice often creates more chains than it breaks. It is a sort of order which, by definition, requires restrictions. The broken chains of the sith is the chaotic freedom from such restrictions. This whole thing is both internally incoherent as well as inconsistent with the wider universe in terms of what separates light side from dark and jedi from sith. The force shall free us all? How? Absolute justice and absolute freedom cannot coexist. If you free everyone( which Is what "us all" denotes within the context of the force as an entity comprised of all living things) then that includes even criminals in prison. Justice entails limitations on freedom such as prisons for criminals. Applying a sort of universal freedom to this order as a goal makes justice unobtainable. It's one thing to build an ideal around balance and moderation but that's not what this "code" is doing. It's defining a blending of opposite and mutually exclusive extremes. There is so much more I could say about how none of this works. This is why I said It's a mishmash of peices that don't fit together in any self-evident way. Its nonsensical. The surface level structure is similar to the other 2 but it lacks their depth and clear relation to the user's approach to power/progress in the force as well as general philosophy. Just like the light sith themselves once were in EU legends, it is weak, inconsistent, and lacking in substance. They thought they could properly follow the light side while remaining loyal to an evil, expansionist empire. Utter hypocrisy. That's why they died. They lost their power in the dark, but couldn't achieve real power in the light whilst ultimately still remaining loyal to a murderous and dark political entity. Ps. If you need to explain how each piece fits with mental gymnastics, it fails as a code because it cannot serve as a guide for new recruits. If it is too subjective and abstract in its meanings than it cannot serve as a unifying philosophy as few people will agree on its meaning.

[@nerdlingeeksly5192]

The sith can be summed up in three words "might makes right"

[@vikingsword3485]

Well that is how the universe works so the sith are correct

[@MegaAgamon]

@@vikingsword3485 Nop that isn't how the universe works. If it was life would have killed itself way before we could have a chance at existing.

[@vikingsword3485]

@@MegaAgamon Of course it is how else would the universe work? Two people get in a fight the one that is right is the one with more power unless a stronger third party intervenes. This includes gov, nature, or g-d

[@MegaAgamon]

@@vikingsword3485 Except not all problems can be solved with fighting. Fighting isn't productive and is wasteful. Too many resources and lives are lost when it happens. If all problems were solved through fighting then life would have killed itself.

[@vikingsword3485]

@@MegaAgamon There is a difference between power and fighting. Fighting is just a lower form of power. However anytime there is a disagreement force is used. The rule of two sith rarely used fighting. A real world example would be sanctions. Cutting off supplies to unfriendly nations

[@Free_Palestine_419]

Kylo Ren: I AM THE NEW SITH!!! Ghosts of Darth Vecitvus, Darth Marr, Darth Malgus, Revan, and Darth Maul: You've gotta be @#$%ing kidding me!!!

[@rakeemkoroma2398]

darth krayt helping luke defeat abeloth is a good example, 2 enemies uniting to stop a common and universal threat. even if he did become the new face of evil later on, he acted as a hero once before

[@huanhoundofthevailinor2374]

Not sure I agree even though I'm still learning the lore I think he was fighting aboloth because he wanted to be the most powerful dark side user having that demon around prob diminished his chances of growing in power

[@rakeemkoroma2398]

@@huanhoundofthevailinor2374 fairs never actually read legends but studied the fanpages, I still believe two opposing sides can unite together tho

[@huanhoundofthevailinor2374]

@@rakeemkoroma2398 I actually didn't mean to imply that they couldn't work together my point was that darth krayt had no good in him he did it for evil reasons but I could be way off even on that I'm only basing what I'm saying off listening to lore channels like this one

[@rakeemkoroma2398]

@@huanhoundofthevailinor2374 makes sense, I hear you brother

[@maninthemask6275]

In many interpretations sith and Jedi simply refer to how ones emotional state is when using the force. The sith let their emotions run wild to gain power while Jedi try to keep their emotions in check. Star killer could be considered a light or good sith, as he uses his emotions to fuel his Force powers yet he uses it to destroy evil and protect the ones he loves . On the flip side dark Jedi can be emotionless yet they can also do despicable things such as murder and subjugating whole plants. The Jedi and sith focus on the emotional state of the force wield not necessarily if they are light or dark.

[@richarddaniel3454]

Yeah, that does seem to be the primary philosophical and cultural focus of both orders- the emotional, rather than the intent.

[@yeetthegargantuanleviathan6216]

The jedi order is not the entirety of the light side, especially the one shown in the prequals, it is made very clear that protecting those you love and emotional attachments are very much light side characteristics, The dark side doesn't really have a defining trait, other than corruption.

[@TheTrueAdonis]

@@yeetthegargantuanleviathan6216 Well, the dark side fuels passion and emotion, The darkside itself is not bad nor good, since the darkside give pain to both good and bad people, so it remains neutral, the darkside just fuels your emotion and passion, but the emotiom it fuels can fuel happiness and anger, so it is a 2 side coin, it fuels your happiness but also fuels your lust, so the reason most Sith are evil is because how the darkside fuels their lust I guess

[@yeetthegargantuanleviathan6216]

@@TheTrueAdonis no, you have got it so wrong it's ridiculous, but most of it could be excused by being ignorant of the lore, but "the dark side is neither good nor bad, since it brings *pain* to good and bad people" is illogical. Hitler killed bad people, doesn't mean he was any less of a villain. The dark side does not 'fuel emotion' the dark side is a broad term for imposing your will over the force and forcing it to do their bidding (and since the force is a living thing is tantamount to slavery), which sith often do by utilizing their emotions, and letting them take over.

[@TheTrueAdonis]

@@yeetthegargantuanleviathan6216 it kinda does fuel emotion? Im kinda saying that necessarily that it is not that “bad” this is seen in one of the force factions, I forgot which one but they thought the darkside to he mostly neutral and that it depends on the user Or something like that, I remember reading them but forgot which and what they were

[@LegatusLucius1994]

LOL vectivus probably had the personality of a dispassionate vampire wanting to be left alone in his castle

[@alexiamills3682]

Lmfaooo you totally got me at the beginning of this episode😂🤣😂🤣😂💖💖💖💖💋

[@fl4ming_r4ven]

I honestly think the Dark Side is less like a tumor, and more like the teeth and claws of the force. Death is a natural part of life, to resist this is unnatural. But it isn't unnatural to kill. The light side of the force is meant to be more like the mind of the force. You'd feel the energy of the force, and possibly feel it's will upon you. If the force willed a Jedi to kill, it would be through the dark side. Meanwhile, disobedience would lead to the Sith. People who try to force the dark side, the side for killing, to kill who THEY want to kill. If the Dark and Light Jedi were to create a system, it could be like this; The Jedi would constantly be interpreting the force's will, and would pass judgment based on this will. The Sith would then be sent with a Jedi guide. One to Judge, one to kill. This way, both sides of the force would be used responsibly, and no conflict would arise from this system. If a Sith rebels, others would kill them. If they have a Jedi that turns to the dark, they would then be Sith. At least, that's what I think.

[@mahguvnah7403]

The dark side isn't about accepting or even dealing death, quite the opposite. The main goal that most sith strive towards is cheating death.

[@fl4ming_r4ven]

@@mahguvnah7403 The Sith code is all about passions and "breaking their chains". Yet almost every Sith we see is a Totalitarian. The Sith are idiots. They focus on gaining power, but it's not to freeing themselves from the values of the Jedi. They want power for power's sake. The Dark Side is meant to be the mirror image of the light. The light side literally gives people the power to heal (so, a form of preventing death) while the Darkside only gives the power to kill. Case in point: lightning, force choke, life drain. Show me the specific Dark Side ability that is designed to not kill, cause pain, or gain Martial Prowess. Sith Alchemy? A subset of chemistry utilizing the Dark Side to increase potency. Dark Side isn't the main focus here, it's the chemistry. The Dark Side has only ever, on screen, dealt death and destruction. As it is meant to. Just because the people who claim to use the Dark Side (by trying to bend it to follow their will instead of following it's will themselves) and the people who claim to follow the will of the force (by preventing both sides from having a say, thusly only half rhe message is heard) does not mean that the will of the Force is, "Oh yeah, see that? That's the other half of me. Kill it for me, would you?"

[@merrick1588]

have to take a little umbridge at calling the dark side a cancer on the force. It is a natural part of the balance and before the first spilt of the Jee'dai (apologies if I spelt that wrong, source material isn't in front of me) all force users used both sides in equal measure and overuse if EITHER was seen as being unbalanced and the Jee'dai in question would be sent to the appropriate moon to regain their balance. it may be legends but the first unified force users were grey.

[@sebas8225]

It´s more of a mutation so to speak, and in some cases (Rakata and Yuuz vong Wuan invasions) it´s pratically antibodies, curing a dangerous external virus, it only becomes a cancer when it´s allowed to fester in peaceful times where there´s no sense to being there, this is why Darth Bane was a good Sith lord, he killed a lot of people but he also saved even more, by extinguishing the sith army and stick to Ro2, the Republic had 1000 years of peace and prosperity thanks to bane.

[@CaesiusX]

*"Was it actually possible to be a good Sith?"* Of course. Haven't you heard of _the good Sith Lollipop?_ 🤭😏

[@mobgabriel1767]

"is it possible to be a good person while being a sith?" praven:yes

[@aregulargamer4886]

Yooo that intro though🔥🔥

[@ivanbnv8354]

Vader killed Padme?!? "I don't know where you get your delusions laser brain"!..

[@livinghistory9701]

Well... I guess it really depends on good. I mean, there's Lana who is certainly not good, but is definitely leaning grey as of the current expansion... *shrugs*

[@nicholashill6314]

Lana, scuroge and darth marr are unique in that they are capable of doing selfish and horrible things, but they were willing to lay down their lives so others can succeed in destroying vitiate.

[@markr3730]

@@nicholashill6314 yeah there something else I mean darth marr became a force ghost and Lana was directly opposed vilitale.

[@morriganaego4288]

@@markr3730 which by definition makes them less evil then the planet eater. Which also means that there is a lot of wiggle room, so I'm sure we can push it even further (my Imperius agrees) Back in the olden days in swtor there also literally was a group of light sith who swore of the dark side while still serving the empire, before vitiate had them all hunted down and killed

[@livinghistory9701]

@@morriganaego4288 my Warrior agrees. He's at, like, light V for alignment...

[@morriganaego4288]

@@livinghistory9701 Mine is too, though she still has the nice dark orange eyes 👍 What's your warrior fighting for, why is he different?

[@tdkreturns-batcavepictures1224]

Me: "It could be a Dark Side tumor." Arnold Schwarzenegger: "It's not a tumor!"

[@fak-yudan5431]

Had me until you started blaming Vectivus for the actions of Sidious. He, as an individual, was still a good person. Sidious did what he did with his own free will and no one can be held accountable for that other than himself and those that directly supported him. Of which Vectivus did neither.

[@lilianemachadostigliano1727]

Still at fault when he could end It at his time and sidious whould never whould have the knowloged to do what he did

[@alexandersmith7061]

I personally sympathize with the sith, because if your born to bend to the will of an entity that you don’t know is even sentient or not, then that’s a shitty life to live. I’d probably say the Jedi were full of shit too, if I were a sith, because how would they know? I also think it’s kinda bad story telling on Star Wars writer’s parts to just say “yeah, the dark side always corrupts”. There’d be way more sith than just one who didn’t bend to the will of the force without being evil. And who says that the dark side is evil? The Jedi? Seems a little sketch imo

[@knightofarnor2552]

"You can't use the dark side for good" "But what about this guy?" "He must not have really been using the dark side"

[@Gab3769]

Yeah, if you're born Force sensitive you must live your life a certain specific way, anything else like being free to live your own life is evil. Balance being balance between Light and Dark makes for much greater stories. Balance being the Light Side itself is just kek.

[@MackNcD]

Yeah using selfish, destructive evil isn’t always selfish, destructive evil, you guys are brilliant…

[@heliosjollywolf9552]

Tbh while the sith are power obsessed killers in the same vain the jedi are child stealing indecisive and dogmatic hypocrites

[@HappyBeezerStudios]

The dark side is all about self empowerment. And that power can be used to do good. The issue is just that usually the raw emotions take over and let the user get lost in it. But there have been force users who, according to Jedi teachings, tap into what is considered the dark side without falling for it.

[@theark4568]

I haven’t been this early since it was still a more civilised time.

[@adrammelechthewroth6511]

Kylo Ren was on to something when it came to letting the Jedi and Sith orders die out.

[@alfonsomacias1569]

That opening hahaha 😆

[@anthonybernard8819]

I think it would be really cool if there was a Sith that had some form of agency addiction. This Sith could have originally been a Jedi or just a force sensitive that started to like helping other. After helping thousands he realized that he doesn’t like helping people, he LOVES helping them, but not because he was a good person. He loves it because it makes him feel important, it makes him feel NEEDED. This Sith would gladly do unspeakable things to himself if it meant helping others just so he could feel that rush of increased self-importance. Does anyone else think would just be a really cool spin on the typical Jedi and Sith...archetype?

[@richarddaniel3454]

Yeah, I definitely do. It would really open the universe up to the kind of symbolism and commentary that I think the topics it touches on deserve, as opposed to the boy scout/texas ranger/good-guy cop stories that we see too much of under Lucas or Disney.

[@go-xn8ow]

That would be cool. I think this binarism of light = good, dark = bad is pretty boring and a bit shallow. This would shake things up a bit.

[@HappyBeezerStudios]

Someone who uses the force, and the power gained through it, to help others? That sounds pretty interesting.

[@mahguvnah7403]

It would be a literal ayn rand novel.

[@dragon_tamerak803]

Geetsly: To answer are title question. No Me: Wow that was a short video Also, Me 3 seconds later: *sees how much is left in the vid* Oh

[@yeetyeet5079]

Darth tenebrous(plagueous’ master) was cool he wanted to improve lives by improving technology so much that the Jedi wouldn’t have anyone in need of help

[@mauriciovic100]

Darth Vectivius was from the Legends universe which categorically doesn’t follow the cannon rules of the force as shown by Jaecen Solo completing his fall to the dark side by losing the loyalty of Ben Skywalker rather than by any killing as he was expecting or through reveling in the dark side while committing a crime as shown in the novelization when Darth Vader gains the yellow eyes after gleefully slaughtering the higher ups of the separatists rather than later with Padme or earlier with the younglings despite both of those being more objectively evil acts, so not sure if it should count as an example since the rules of the dark side corrupting are cannon and this particular Sith is Legends only. Having said that there are two examples from cannon that could at a stretch be called “good siths” (or more accurately not evil dark-siders) those being Darth Tenebrus the master of Darth Plaguesius and the Nightsisters of Dathomir. Darth Tenebrus was onboard of the end of the Jedi, but different from his antecessors and successors he aimed to do so by making the Jedi obsolete, he wanted to use the force’s prophetic abilities to make a supercomputer that would be able to perfectly distribute resources in galactic scale so as to end wars and suffering in general, reasoning that this way the Jedi would have nothing to do anymore and eventually die out, problem is that when he predicted his apprentice’s betrayal he planned to have his conscious use him as a carrier so he could eventually be carried to and possess the “Chosen One” (Anakin) only failing through a série of coincidences, so I’m kinda reluctant to call him good despite his overall plan being quite positive. Then there are the nightsisters that while dark side users were mostly interested on their own survival without letting themselves fall completely to it. Sure, there practices concerning man were quite ghastly, but not really all that different from what cultures without the dark side do on their own.

[@shinmalestat9272]

If not for how the darkside functions the Sith code is actually all about self empowerment and personal responsibility.

[@-Gilver]

Yeah ....just gets a little muddled with all the killing

[@HappyBeezerStudios]

And those traits pretty much define the modern superhero. Just that instead of using it to gain personal power and wealth, they use it to help those weaker then themselves. I could see the emotions and focus of the Sith teachings being used for that. On the other hand the Jedi teachings are all about detachment, which often enough leads to inaction. Even when doing something would improve the situation at large.

[@domvasta]

Vectivus could have been a failed apprentice like Maul, never killing his master or training an apprentice and living until he died of other causes (old age in both cases, one natural causes, one old Ben Kenobi)

[@richarddaniel3454]

Ha, yes. Old age is the killer of us all, one way or another-

[@rcschmidt668]

In a discussion of good and evil and light and dark, I was waiting for the reference to Revan, who embodied both sides.

[@dungeonguy88]

Well, he transitioned from one side to the other.

[@incap6038]

Darth Imperius: *chuckling in the background*

[@bigbangrafa8435]

Lana Beniko was so calm and pragmatic that many in the Empire would at first glance think she was a Jedi. And Kyle Katarn used the dark side very often during his ENTIRE LIFE as a Jedi and never got corrupted by It. I think the dark side merely enhances the character flaws on each person. If you are truly good, there's no temptation in the dark side. But if you already have dark desires for power and other selfish goals in life, this will definitelly be a one way trip.

[@dar-nakkallig]

Pub Side, Lana and Gnost Dural (however you spell it) have a discussion on Sith philosophy and Gnost ends up deciding that the usurpation of the Master is not written in Sith philosophy

[@bigbangrafa8435]

@@dar-nakkallig Yeah, but that was prior to Darth Bane, he was the one who institutionalized this rule under the Rule of Two. But before that there was no written law saying that you have to, the Sith who did It were selfish assholes, fanatical purifiers, or simply got fed up with being mistreated by their masters.

[@michaelandreipalon359]

Also, Kyle really knows how to be a Jedi despite his pragmatism with guns, bombs, and the occasional commando stuff.

[@luka_unleashed307]

I like to think of a paradox based on the saying "You either die a hero or live yo see yourself become the villain". If your a villain, but don't actually cause any harm, just appear threatening without actually giving heroes due cause to come after You, does that make you immortal?

[@HappyBeezerStudios]

Another saying is "with great power comes great responsibility", and so far the Jedi more often then not just sat around twiddling their thumbs instead of actually helping the galaxy at large. Until one of them decides to take matters into their own hand. But doing things on your own terms, simply because you can and want, is more of a Sith thing than the Jedi way.

[@rizegreymon4084]

OMG! I was listening to this while studying and hearing the outro about a video concerning Palpatine's sex life caught me so off-guard that I made everyone around me look at me when I randomly started laughing out of nowhere.

[@theyetti90]

4:20 Ah, yes, the Chicago Sith. CS: We bout to jump this fool in.

[@chrislucken8354]

Argument sounds like a Christian talking about other faiths

[@MackNcD]

The difference is that a Sith wouldn’t argue with this explaination of the dark side, they have no trouble admitting what it is. The only time they lie about it and make it seem more “light filled” is in deception. Like when Palantine was grooming Anakin.

[@Markis2bi4]

I would like for Luasfilm, or even a fan film team, to make a live action version of Darth Vectivus' life, what he did and what he had learned. Maybe even some adventures of his own?

[@darthrevan1281]

Will he close the deal? Will he lose the Hutt account? Find out on the next episode of _Darth Vectivus: Sith Entrepreneur!_

[@Dr.Strangmeme]

@@darthrevan1281 Watch Darth Vectivus: Sith Entrepreneur in Real Estate or Hutts Will Darth Vectivus be able to afford the asteroid with the money he got from the Hutt deal?

[@mabesmadness177]

Swtor the online mmo:you pick your own destiny Me:picks the nicest route but stayed sith

[@TK-wk6xd]

A lot of sith broke the sith code even sith like Darth Pleaguis, Darth Sidious, and Darth Krayt

[@theunknownone4433]

2:27 It was impossible to use the Darkside in moderation Mace windu:DO I MEAN NOTHING TOO YOU Revan:DO I MEAN NOTHING TO YOU

[@theunknownone4433]

@Samuel Dimmock yeah mace is a badass and created vaapad to control his inner darkness and the darkness of his opponents , but point still remains that it is possible to use the full spectrum of the force, where some fail is they try to be equally devoted to the light and dark that is what’s impossible, u will always lean more towards one side even though you use both, Mace and Kyle Katarn are good examples of this

[@DavidbarZeus1]

@@theunknownone4433 Explain the Jed'aii then, who used both sides for centuries and it was only when they failed to notice a group becoming unbalanced that they stopped

[@theunknownone4433]

@@DavidbarZeus1 yes the jed’aii and subsequent Jedi did eventually let fear of the dark side overtake them and many have tried and failed to balance both sides but all this proves is that it’s difficult to balance both sides not impossible, as I stated before Kyle Katarn, mace windu and even Luke skywalker himself are just a few great examples of great examples

[@sebas8225]

@@theunknownone4433 The darkside was also used in moderation by many jedi in the rakata invasion, they had no choice but to use the force sabers to protect the galaxy so a ton of them came out uncorrupted

[@nolanevans7603]

I really hope the Disney canon shows more dark side using groups or force groups in general

[@rebeldropper8933]

@Nolan Evans i agree. If they dive deep. It better be dark.

[@yvaga_]

I hope fallen order 2 explores this with merrin and the nightsisters

[@arminxvs3372]

You wish. It would be so cool but Disney will never supply us with those stories.

[@tb7771]

They'd give it to KK and she'd ruin it.

[@KingDerpy13]

"Peace is a lie, there is only Passion. Through Passion, I gain Strength. Through Strength, I gain Power. Through Power, I gain Victory. Through Victory, my chains are broken."

[@blakethegreatone2058]

The "attention,Sgt on deck" triggers me. Lmao

[@drakispain2213]

In at 33 minutes? Let's go! May the force be with you, always.

[@albanurrutia395]

SWTOR paints it like you’re a knight from medieval times, specifically the light side warrior

[@keithedergaming1047]

My character in SWTOR: And I took that personally.

[@SmellyBones]

Thumb looks like the Dread Pirate Sith.

[@MRDLT00]

12:11 Then Why is it called "The Dark Side of the Force"? It's legit a part of the force. The Force consists of both the Light side AND the dark side.

[@Toramai-pi8wx]

Because that’s how it’s described by users. And not it’s not a part of the Force….it says so in the video.

[@generalkenobi6656]

Honestly thought that revan would be the only “good” Sith as he had his own goal to utterly destroy the true Sith and save the galaxy in doing so.

[@olwynlamberti]

Can someone tell me what star wars media revan is in? Is it a series I haven't heard of? A game?

[@thebestmandalorian5354]

@ Olwyn Lamberti kotor and a book and a few comics I think

[@MegaAgamon]

Darth Revan wasn't good. Similar to Vader they started with the most noble intentions but the moment they fell to Dark Side they became corrupt and wanted to rule over everything there is creating a brutal empire that would crush everyone under its heel.

[@generalkenobi6656]

@@MegaAgamon yes he was very dark sided in the end but he was no where as bad as his apprentice, Malak, who wanted to simply use the star forge for crushing the republic. Malak let the star forges dark power corrupt him while revan didn’t let that happen he continued on his pursuit to destroy the true Sith but of course by the time he was at war with the republic he was acting partially under the true Sith Lord. Though he still tried to destroy the true Sith Lord, failing in the process and he then became enslaved by the true Sith Lord for centuries. In short revans cause was noble in its own way.

[@generalkenobi6656]

@Samuel Dimmock wonder why lol

[@SuperAp0calypse]

When I played The Old Republic MMO, I played a Sith Juggernaut who was a light side Sith. It was a little funny seeing the reactions of all the other Sith characters to my light side choices and actions. I think I weirded them out lol

[@aurelcorstan5242]

Lol...nice juke to Darth Vectivus. Well played.