Gene Okerlund - How Bret Hart & Shawn Michaels were in WWF

Mean Gene Okerlund discusses the early days of Bret Hart & Shawn Michaels and what went down with the Montreal incident years later. Stream New Shoot Interviews 📺 TitleMatchNetwo...
RIP to the late-great Mean Gene. Mr Okerlund talks about how at first he wasn't sure guys the size of Bret Hart or Shawn Michaels had a shot in the main event.
Plus Gene shares his thoughts on what happened in Montreal at Survivor Series 1997. And we also get a few words on the infamous Bret Hart and El Dandy promo in WCW.
Originally produced by RF Video Inc in 2006. Licensed for exclusive distribution on Title Match Network.
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[@TitleMatchWrestling]

RIP to the late great Mean Gene Okerlund Stream the Full Shoot Interview (2006) ➡titlematchnetwork.com/wrestling-shoot-interviews-results/

[@rollandcurtisoffExpoInThe30s]

Rest in peace “Mean” Gene Okerlund.

[@inuenndo_]

this man’s voice is like champagne

[@pinotnoir6974]

There were none better. If I was to pick a second and third, it would need to be Jessie Ventura and Jim Ross.

[@KeshHere]

Gene and Howard is my fav announcers . Og’s

[@AlMarshall16641]

Nobody could ever say "world wrestling federation" better

[@KevinsKontentKorner]

Damn dawg sounds like u wanna give old mean the bronco buster during a private match. Chill lil fella

[@nichhodge8503]

I don’t like champagne (in fact I’ve not drank for 12yrs) but I get what you mean, Gene’s voice is amazing

[@williamchappell9858]

There was nothing flashy or fancy about Bret He was in your face tough as a rock technical wrestler His work and wrestling moves and holds were phenomenal second to none Outside the ring did great promos and interviews he could do it all He's a walking Encyclopedia of wrestling and he learned from one of the best in the business his father the late great Stu Hart training in The Dungeon growing up in Calgary, British Columbia

[@stevArc3718]

I love Mean Gene. As a 90s kid, I knew him as one of the voices of WCW. Anytime he was interviewing anyone in the ring, not just the top guys like Hogan or Sting, his presence made those segments must see tv. Whether it was with main eventers, mid-card, anyone. Hell, I remember his action figure that came with a special Hollywood Hulk Hogan figure and black and white Sting figure as a special edition Starrcade box...and my 8 year old self was excited that I had a Mean Gene figure with a microphone. I hate the story of his funeral, where DDP said none of the boys attended. Mean Gene didn't need anyone to get over, but they sure as Hell needed him.

[@Mr.Septon]

It really is sad that his funeral went effectively ignored by the boys. His role was far more critical than people tend to understand or give credit to. The interviews play a specific role in the storytelling. If you were great on the mic, then he knew just how to play off of them, when to give them room to go off the rails and when to try and bring it back in. If you were weak on the mic, then he helped minimize their exposure while trying to still get as much out of them as needed. How many wrestlers that didn't show up have classic promo's that are laid in stone in the history of wrestling, where those interview's were with the man himself. You would think that more would care. It makes sense DDP was there, I just wish that a lot more others would have felt the same as DDP over the loss.

[@dane21dc]

1:24. That’s HILARIOUS. Shawn begged Vince for a release in mid 97 in the midst of all the drama with Bret. Shawn wanted to go down and be with his buddies, but Vince refused. The fact it gets looked back on now as “Shawn was so loyal” makes me laugh pretty hard

[@nzelver559]

I mean - he kinda was loyal. He may have had the itch to be with his buddies but he never did anything behind Vince's back. Not sure why that's laughable. At the same time - Shawn was a broken man with drug issues, immaturity and anger issues, so Vince kinda fed that opportunity to Shawn who ran with it. They definitely had a mutually beneficial relationship and probably more than that.

[@zap_sigma1]

@dane21dc Are you retarded? Who said loyalty doesn't have limits? What makes ME laugh are idiotic comments from casuals like you. Especially the fact you actually thought you ate with that pathetic take only reveals YOUR shortcomings. Especially in the area of you lacking any self awareness.

[@stevenramirezmistersmokes6379]

OG MEAN GENE#1 (RIP)

[@williamgoodrick4367]

I wonder if the interviewer realized he was capturing history

[@ArkOmen1]

Gene made such great contributions to the sport. He was there at the right time

[@johnm5889]

Put that cigarette out😊 R.I.P mean gene🙏

[@michaelvazquez7851]

Nice interview

[@Krimsonking1998]

Mean Gene was wrong about 1 thing…. there was NO 3 COUNT with the Montreal Screwjob. It was a submission finish ! But other than that … great interview

[@amazingmingchan9428]

According to Hogan it was a fast count lol

[@Pandaman4494]

@@amazingmingchan9428yea and you can’t doubt hogan

[@angelahaines9656]

Great memories ❤

[@Grisna_25-]

RIP Gene

[@kingeskimo]

Well, you know Mean Gene!

[@waqaskaash7319]

Bret Vs Shawn should be concluded inside a Hell In A Cell But .. Now it can be only done in 2K24

[@clavd8932]

Really saddening to know DDP was the only one that showed up to his funeral. RIP Mean Gene

[@tellumyort]

Need to preemptively cut off anyone wanting to say Bret was unprofessional, Shawn said he would never lose to Bret which is why Bret was not willing to do the same for him. Gene clearly wasn’t aware of that considering he misremembered the screwjob as a pin.

[@davidporter7051]

not even close to a valid point. Wrestlers lose on their way out.

[@drvn8]

Not even relevant. If Vince wanted Shawn to lose, then Shawn would've been pinned.

[@mdolinski4926]

I love Bret. I truly do. But at the same time you have to do what your boss wants. He should have done his job and then onward and upward. This is coming from a huge Bret Hart mark!

[@RedBreen168]

I can see that point, however, it's a business and the belt doesn't actually belong to the person holding it... Hell, Dynamite and Davy still did the job for the Rougeaus even after Dynamite got his teeth knocked out...

[@lunarianpaladin6980]

I don’t think Gene actually knew what happened. There are a lot of details that people are unaware of. Bret was originally scheduled to win SS97 until Hunter convinced Shawn that he needed to contest the outcome. Bret would’ve lost the belt to Shawn at another time. Bret still had plenty of time on his contract to drop the belt for the rest of November or December. Once Shawn successfully changed the outcome, Bret used his contract privileged limited creative control, namely over match finishes to veto Shawn’s requested change. A lot of this was because after Bret attempted to make peace with Shawn by telling him that he could always expect him to be professional in the ring despite their personal differences with each other Shawn replied that he would not do the same. Affronted by this Bret would then refuse to put over Shawn for this and various other reasons. Shawn has a long history of not putting over other guys on his way out and screwed British Bulldog a few months earlier in September at One Night Only for the European title (BB was Bret’s brother in law). Shawn wasn’t well liked in the locker room and at the time had been bragging that he jobbed to no one. Bret put his foot down and only agreed that he’d only put over Shawn if he put him over first at Survivor Series.

[@TravisBrady-wn8fr]

Bret stood 7 feet.. shawn weighed in at 405.

[@TVC-JE]

Hogan giving out stats again?

[@shawnsdr3406]

Yeah right both 5 foot Vanilla midgets😂

[@TravisBrady-wn8fr]

@@TVC-JE yep😎

[@msoi215]

#RIPMeanGene

[@mikejejenich-pb5zx]

The facial expressions this guy made during a sheiky 🇮🇷 promo. Or a macho man promo. Are more entertaining then a modern day raw show👋

[@kuveshgovender3115]

Yeah it wasnt a 3 count

[@bigjermboktown6976]

Bret was never a good talker. Shawn Michaels had him beat by a mile as especially as time went on. Bret he just started looking like a construction worker and always looked sad especially when he went to WCW

[@Stonewall29]

1997 Heel Bret Hart was great on the stick

[@adamrenfrow]

Bret was better than Shawn in ring.

[@desisdosis473]

​@@adamrenfrowNot during Shawn's prime from 95 - 98. Shawn was otherworldly good during that period. He was so good that even without his second run, these 3 years were enough to cement his status at one of the best of all time.

[@Drob47]

Shawn was a jacka$$ So it was easy for him to act like himself

[@navy4181]

3:13 Three count?

[@auntiewewe972]

Right? Shoulder up? I think Mean Gene was confusing Montreal with Indiana, with Hulk and Andre

[@Mr.Septon]

I was going to say that he most likely was mixing up moments. All the matches, wrestlers, locations, days a year, years and decades, it must be difficult to keep track of it as well as they do with all things considered. It is a little different as fans, especially in the age of the internet where we can constantly relive and discuss our favourite and/or most hated moments.

[@AndrewNewZealand]

People who side with Vince, Shawn etc. on the Bret Hart issue tend to be people who also think Shawn and Vince screwed Bret with a false three count i.e. they're just ignorant. Mean Gene and Brain were long gone from WWF in '97, but they thought they knew who was wrong and right.

[@kennethgriffin7921]

"maybe shawn wasn't in on the screw job. it was Hebner that put the 3 count and the shoulder was up" no wonder nobody showed up to this guys funeral

[@Mr.Septon]

Mixing up memories because like a lot of the wrestlers, not living in the highlights constantly because they lived many of the moments. Wrestling matches hundreds of days of every year, and then how many wrestlers, matches, finishes, etc. in a single day. Yeah, details can get mixed up. Seems like a pretty weak reason to claim as justification for virtually no one showing up to his funeral.

[@Holden308]

The end of Kayfabe aside, the steroid thing aside ... I think a lot of the problem for WWF fans of the mid-90s was going from having the likes of 6'6", 302 lbs Hulk Hogan or the 6'2", 275 muscle bound Ultimate Warrior ruling the roost ... to two guys who weighed no more than 235 lbs and were long time tag team wrestlers suddenly being the top guys. Savage was their size, but he at least had been a singles wrestler and was well established as a great talent being a long time IC champ. Hart and Michaels may be among THE best workers ever in professional wrestling. But believable as World Heavyweight Champions while there are guys they wrestled, and beat..... who sometimes stood almost a foot taller, weighed over 100 or 200 lbs more and could squash those two like the proverbial grape?? Not really.....

[@jodavey]

Most people thought Marty would be the Star. Not Shawn

[@ericbambergerphilly]

Literally nobody thought that

[@alistairhenshall9204]

Yeah this is completely false

[@timbow1356]

Shawn slept with Pat Patterson, that's why .

[@GameTime-yj6qv]

Just looking at them you could tell Shawn would be the star.

[@dane21dc]

Marty is a mess

[@vallangaard]

'Hebner put the three count down... and his shoulder was clearly up...???" Gene? He lost by 'submission'. There was no count, buddy.

[@bornfromforeign]

No one went to his funeral sad

[@dany-ps2my]

The screw job put wcw out of business, created Mr McMahon, if wcw never signed Brett hart things might of been different

[@xsonicsparkx]

Mr. McMahon was already happening in March 97 when Bret cut his bullshit promo and shoved McMahon.

[@n1a2v3e4]

Screwjob made wwe successful is not true. Attitude era without rock and Austin and mick Foley it could've not achieve the success this much. WCW started to sink just after nwo...because nwo is a mixture of famous wrestlers in history but no good matches in the list which sink wcw to death. Hired bret just to sit in bench without matches for several nights. Wcw have no knowledge to use skilled wrestlers. Example: Austin, benoit, Jericho, Booker t, rey mysterio, Eddie and much more....

[@AndrewNewZealand]

Not surprised at who this guy sides with.

[@clarkkent983]

Shawn only being a prick with his rivals, he was ok with everyone else. Even Foley and Stone Cold said Michaels was cool with them

[@williamchappell9858]

Shawn had more charisma more moxy and swagger and looking back as a heel he was cool 😎 and as the co leader of DX he was cool 😎 huge tv ratings and plenty controversy made for very interesting tv watching U never knew what Shawn would say & do week after week He's not a Hall of Famer for nothing

[@bigjermboktown6976]

I absolutely agree 100%. Brett just became a person who just looked sad and look like he lost a lot of confidence especially when he went to WCW and just always look like he got to the arena from a construction site

[@jaybarnes8034]

Happy Mean Gene is still alive.

[@jasongill5390]

Hes dead actually

[@christianc8929]

I’m a big Brett fan and when you look back at it both he and Vince handled the situation wrong. One, it’s Vince’s company and Brett did have some minor creative control of his character but it’s simply not his company. Vince should said, listen, the belt is coming off, you are leaving and that’s all there is to it. He was letting Brett hear what he wanted and than screwed him. Vince had every right to take the belt off Brett but he should have just put his foot down. Vince has never came acrossed as a person that doesn’t tell it like it is. Not sure why he did it that way.

[@RJ-fe9pu]

Dropping the belt wasn't the issue even Taker would tell you that good grief.

[@Mr.Septon]

Yeah Bret was willing to drop the belt. He didn't want to leave the WWF, he was a company guy through and through and was truly dedicated to the company and Vince. It was only after Vince turned around, going back on his contract with Bret and effectively telling him that there were greener pastures out there for him. Vince, especially in doing this was worried he was going to run into another Alundra Blaze/Medusa situation where a champion would go over to WCW with the belt. Bret was above that, and even tried to offer alternate people (that were valid high level alternatives) that he could drop the belt to. Sure Bret didn't typically lose in Canada, and in generally usually people don't lose in their home country, or if American their home town, and then yes Bret had reasonable creative control over his final 30 days with his character to avoid his character being assassinated and buried before starting his new run somewhere else, potentially damaging his career... which we can say, it did damage his career the way that Vince handled it. Not that it ruined it directly as in no one wanted him or anything, but the biggest factor was that it hurt Bret personally, feeling betrayed and in a new land where he especially didn't have that sort of trust. Then the loss of his brother, his career-ending injury, and it all just accumulated in short time. As it is, the reason Bret didn't feel comfortable doing the job, dropping the belt to Shawn was based on Shawn (who is on my Mount Rushmore with Bret) saying that he wouldn't return the favour previously. Bret didn't feel that Shawn was respectful, deserved respect, and since Shawn stated an unwillingness to job out, and with Bret having control over his final 30 days presentation, it is reasonable that he felt that way. In most industries you don't typically take coworkers personal beef and place it on display, building off of it. Wrestling isn't the same. Shawn was lucky that Vince took the fall for so long, otherwise Taker damn well would have beat his ass that night, and exactly why the Undertaker was ready to kick Shawn's ass if he later didn't drop the belt to Austin - being that it was Shawn, not Bret, that had a bit of a history of vacating belts in... less than always professional ways. It is entertainment, but it is a business, it is a job. People can want to place responsibility on Bret because yes, he could have just said "Okay, I'll drop it to Shawn" and then it would have been done with. At the same time Vince could have put the belt on someone else to transition it as he did in many other circumstances. Instead, what he did was create a circumstance that if you're a wrestler, it is always going to be tough to not have that in the back of your mind "Okay, well if they were willing to do that to their top guy, at the peak of his career, one of the biggest names at the time and arguably the best in-ring technician, then what about me?". It is stuff like that which has also led many wrestlers over time put almost mythical power on the Kliq because of the amount of doubt as to who was the reason behind certain choices, why did certain things happen. It isn't a proper way to run a business, coming from the guy at the tippy top of the organization, but he got his match finish that he wanted, and he unintentionally created one of the all-time greatest heel characters in wrestling through said moment in becoming Mr. McMahon. I just don't think Bret specifically deserves blame for the outcome of the situation. He absolutely played a role, but at the end of the day, he had a contract, was told one thing, and something completely different occurred.

[@kpax45]

Vince did tell him he had to drop the belt, Bret would not listen. Bret ought to have known that McMahon was not going to let him just forfeit the belt and then leave to go to WCW. Come on Bret!!!

[@mahmud9973]

Hello

[@Skazellino]

Bret Screwed Bret.

[@nicholaswoodall9820]

i thought they both were great wrestlers

[@JamesMMcCann]

Yet another person commenting on Montreal who doesn't have the full facts.

[@Mr.Septon]

Yeah, weird how people have thoughts and opinions on events. I've heard people talk politics and economics before without full facts as well. Crazy world we live in, eh?

[@JamesMMcCann]

@@Mr.Septon why would you take pride in talking about something you don't have sufficient information on? You can easily just say, "I don't know enough about that to talk about it." I also like how your point was people can have an opinion, but your comment was specifically against me sharing my own opinion. Have a good weekend, mate.

[@Mr.Septon]

@@JamesMMcCann oh I'm not saying you can't have the opinion, I just fortunately/unfortunately have a natural tone of being an asshole. It's like resting bitchface, but how I speak. It's an issue, that's for sure 🙆🏼‍♂️ no ill will, just being a smartass. Also, I don't take pride in people claiming things that complicate stories and I do prefer people having more information before going out there and spreading misinformation. We've spent a quarter of a century with various tellings and versions of events and for so long the entire thing left a lot of "what if" questions about who other than Vince was involved. I think it would have been different if he had chosen to go on a tangent about it but he was asked, gave his opinion. I totally support people saying "I don't have enough information to really comment, it's obviously not a great situation but I wasn't there for it to give good insight". More people should be willing to say they don't know, or something akin to that. No negative feelings, I wish you well.

[@AndrewNewZealand]

Exactly. He was long gone from WWF as was Bobby Heenan who judged Bret as unprofessional with equal arrogance. If you look at Bret's and Shawn's careers up to that point and call Bret unprofessional, it shows how little you know.

[@905JimRaynor]

The Montreal Screw job was a work and Mean Gene knows it.

[@jonblazeinc]

So you're saying Bret was in on it ?

[@905JimRaynor]

@@jonblazeinc yep. The screw job is a variation of the Wendi Richter/Moolah screw job of '85. Richter did exactly the same thing Hart did after quickly leaving the WWF.

[@jonblazeinc]

@905JimRaynor I know about the Richter screw job think it was WM1 ...never heard she was in on her screwjob either

[@905JimRaynor]

@@jonblazeinc NEWSFLASH: Wrestlers work the fans.

[@jonblazeinc]

@905JimRaynor NEWSFLASH....politics happen behind the scenes as well, not saying these situations are not works but let's not see everything as a conspiracy theory. Maybe in time the truth could come out about Richter and Bret Hart , but I personally choose to believe they were both screwed by Vince ...you are free to think what you like

[@JaskiratSGrewal]

Bret > Shawn. Not close.

[@RoundtreeattheGrosvernor]

I never hear that, can you state your case?

[@adamrenfrow]

​@@RoundtreeattheGrosvernor I here it all the time

[@peteyjames1829]

I thought he was dead

[@mtgamateurnight]

He is this interview was about 20 years ago

[@brenb70]

He’s come back from the dead for this interview

[@E.C.2]

Show some respect for the dead.

[@peteyjames1829]

@@E.C.2 is he?

[@E.C.2]

@@peteyjames1829 Yes he died a few yrs ago.

[@DWtechfan]

To all of those saying Bret wasn’t unprofessional, try giving that same lame ass excuse at your 9-5 jobs and see how that works out for you. When your boss asks you to do something, you don’t list reasons why you can’t do it. You just do it. Bret took and still takes himself way too seriously. He lost himself in thinking “The Hitman” was real and that every accomplishment was legit. He’s a legend but sadly pro wrestling doesn’t work as he thought it did. Because back in reality, telling your boss no usually ends in punishment or termination. Had Bret not been such a pain in the ass to deal with, he probably could’ve quit WCW and went back to WWE before he got hurt against Goldberg. And his career might’ve been drastically different.

[@xsonicsparkx]

Tell me you know nothing about the screw job without saying it. Bret offered to do the job, in Canada, to Austin, or even Taker. He wouldn't do it for Shawn since Shawn said outright he wouldn't do it for Bret. Bret also had reasonable creative control. Bret was also told the finish, and it wasn't the finish he was told. Watch the WWE Rivalries DVD from years ago with Shawn and Bret. They discuss it in detail.

[@DWtechfan]

@@xsonicsparkx or tell me you’re a trolling Bret Hart mark without saying it. The screw job has been analyzed to death since it happened and it’s still dumb now like it was then. It’s simple, I don’t care if Shawn and Bret had issues. I don’t care that Bret is a Canadian hero or whatever other excuses he used not to drop the title to Shawn. He was asked to do the job and a true professional would have agreed and went on about their business. Remember how Bret keeps burying Hogan for not wanting to drop the title to him? Yet, what does he do in his last act as WWF champion? Oh yeah, he refuses to lose to HBK. The irony must be lost on you.

[@torhowell5202]

The reason. He was given creative control in a contract his boss signed. So you think a contract is not legally binding?

[@DWtechfan]

@@torhowell5202 we all know creative control is a myth unless you’re Hulk Hogan. And you missed a word “reasonable” creative control is what Bret said in his Hitman Hart documentary. There was nothing reasonable in Bret refusing any and all creative having to do with Shawn. A pro does whatever they’re asked. The fact is Bret had just as much to do with that outcome in Montreal as Vince or Shawn. The other two have openly accepted responsibility but Bret has not and keeps crying about getting screwed.

[@xsonicsparkx]

@DWtechfan false equivalency. Hogan didn't even work Bret but worked Yoko. There's no irony here. Hogan avoided Bret. Bret put over Shawn. Vince painted himself into a corner. Vince agreed to Bret going over. So say whatever you want, that's what happened. You can sit there and say, best for business, or you do a job on your way out, but you're ignoring the actual circumstances. A true professional? In the words of Vince, you could build a company around Bret.

[@ThyKingdomCome1983]

Shawn Michaels is zero for life in shoot fights!! Jim Cornette