GENERAL CHOI HONG HI EXPLANATION OF SINE WAVE

General Choi Hong Hi 'Founder of Taekwon-do'...explaining sine wave.

[@OriginalTaekwonDo]

The use of sine wave in fundamental Movements and Patterns is for training and development. It teaches the practitioner to use mass as well as acceleration in order to gain maximum power. This is not only gained with a down-up-down motion [sine wave], but also with a slight twisting of the hips, as well as a relaxing and tensing of the muscles in the body. In actual combat or defense application it will not be so pronounced, but it will be utilized by dropping the weight as you strike.

[@peterfields2179]

Bruh he specifically says don't twist in the video ... lol.

[@sassuki]

Looks interesting, but makes absolutely no sense to me

[@MrMeltdown]

I think there was a divergence and many (including the general) started to eliminate the hip twist. Note Kim Bok Man shows hip twist in his book so it was definitely there early on. Looking at demos of the low block / rising block combination in Dan gun will show if the pattern is using hip twist or not. Also note the general does not obviously dip lower than the starting point in this demo. Modern itf world champions have been dipping low before starting any movements making the ‘sine wave’ even more exaggerated.

[@ericshingles]

I was taught that the shortest point between two places is a straight line, not up and down, and hip twisting allowed lightweights like me to generate real power although he was trained by General Choi, there was no sine wave under my Master.

[@MrK-wu7ci]

Just wow. A few points though. 1. Even the black belts don't get it. 2. There should be a breakdown of what it is and how to train it, part by part. Power generation in Taekwondo is just as fascinating to me as any other art. Mainly doing Tai Chi/Qigong today, however I trained TKD 30 some years ago.

[@scarred10]

the ITF has been using sine wave since before 1985 and still nodody has any use for it outside patterns,its a total waste of training time.Gen choi introduced it purely to distinguish its appearance from WTF tkd after he got into bed with kim il sung in North korea.He never knew anything about combat.

[@johncasarino5627]

@@scarred10 and how do you know all this?

[@scarred10]

@@johncasarino5627 I trained under several current ITF grandmasters for 15 yrs,starting in 1985 and attending several of gen chois,park jung tae and rhee ki has courses,all horseshit in the extreme and zero to do with combat.The dobok was even changed tomake it different to karate since choi hated the japs despite shotokan being his only martial art experience,he has no other resources to draw on.

[@miqvPL]

all 3 black belts I trained with do it naturally so speak for your schools. Tkd encyclopedia talks about it a bit, but our instructors mostly presented it like this- your first move needs to be "falling down" - if it's a block of attack you lower your stance tiny bit and block. If your first move is an attack then start it by first rising and then right before the point of contact you "fall down". In a combo attack or a block+attack you (rise a bit) attack/block while falling, then rise when, for example, you chamber the next kick, fall again with another attack. It's pretty easy to do the "exaggerated way" but hard to do it subtly without compromising your balance, since you often do the rising and falling with your feet and not your knees, and even shifting on knees only can put you off balance easier. Sine wave side kick however was proven to be stronger than roundhouse kick (both tkd style, it's not stronger than a muay thai roundhouse or some variations of mawashi geri), while without sine wave it was weaker, they measured it years ago

[@MrK-wu7ci]

@@miqvPL Thanks. "Tkd encyclopedia talks about it a bit, but our instructors mostly presented it like this- your first move needs to be "falling down" - if it's a block of attack you lower your stance tiny bit and block. If your first move is an attack then start it by first rising and then right before the point of contact you "fall down"." That's the best description I've heard.

[@yveslegault6825]

Yes... There should be a breakdown demonstrated... ... A total breakdown in the dynamic of natural movement. Such move seems to prevent any kime on contact. The shortest point between two point has always been a line. Telegraphing ahead of time what you are about to do has never been a good tactic in a fight.

[@dangkoen]

Fact is sine wave does not make any sense in terms of power generation. It's not because people in other disciplines lower their center of gravity that they are doing sine wave. People who think like this should think outside of the box more. Power mainly comes from correctly twisting the body's core, regardless of the discipline.

[@ivodonchev8358]

Yes but...think about muscle tension. Wich generates more power? Tensing the muscles for a split second with full force or keeping them tensed for extended period.(check explanation for one inch punch) This theory however means that the sine wave performer has to do a spontaneus but very slight rise up (or to tense the whole body) for a split second at the end of the so called 3 phase of the movement. I m not sure the old guy understood this but he certainly felt it.

[@bryanking1428]

It allows you time to relax the muscles, requires balance and control and then has the explosion of power along with the twist in the relevant movements. It also looks far more elegant and beautiful / rhythmical than other ways of performing patterns imo. You still have connecting movements too that allow the rhythm to change.... People don't fight like this... It's more the art side of things... An expression of the power and beauty of the the human body.

[@TheMadisonHang]

creating distance, +speed = power

[@77wolf89]

Sine wave is illogical and doesnt make sense. This is my biggest complaint in ITF TKD. Looking at it mathematically, what happens on the Y-axis does not impact the X-axis. If sine wave was practical, you would see it practiced more in breaking and sparring, yet you only see it in forms.

[@zbynekII]

You can see it in tennis, fencing, walking, dancing .. you name it. Its natural to human movement.

[@77wolf89]

@@zbynekII According to the book "A Killing Art", the Gen put Sine Wave in to basically remove everyone other than those he wanted to stay. You state "you see it in tennis", and that is correct, but its only there after a full step and not in a single step. After many years in both styles, the S.W. of ITF is moot. I stand by what i say able the X and Y axis.

[@MrMeltdown]

The drop on the Y axis will contribute to the X axis IF and only IF there is something resisting the Y acceleration at an angle. Try this balance a tennis ball on the end of a stick. Put one end of the stick on the ground and the ball end of the stick vertically above it. Now very slightly lean the stick forward by one or two degrees. Let go… The ball travels in the x direction. The only forces acting were vertical gravity and reaction forces.

[@NickCampbellCampbeln]

Could you please provide the approximate date and location where General Choi taught the seminar in this video? Thank you!

[@miqvPL]

I can only hear it being a showcase in Poland since they translate to polish (very poorly)

[@TheMadisonHang]

you take the 1 concept, and apply it to all movements.

[@contactnewheightsfitness2233]

did he say "don't twist"? This is verifiably NOT how to generate power. There are countless kinesiology studies, many involving boxing, and every single one show how pushing forward (not up) on the base leg and turning the hips and shoulders in time with this push is the single most powerful way to deliver force with the arms (punching, swinging a bat, etc.) Sine wave is an interesting concept, but upon scrutiny it really falls apart and should be abandoned.

[@landoftheascendingdragon]

for that move, you do not twist ur body i do not think, its a weird traditional move

[@michaeljung4398]

I don't think the way ITF Taekwondo does their form is exactly how to generate power. However, the concept of the sinewave is used in the baseball bat swing. And in other sports in the form of dropping the body weight to generate more power.

[@davidmunien5803]

Does anyone know what song this is?

[@Smittyschannel]

I understand for fluidity & maybe power generation.... but this would be pretty counter-productive & time consuming in a street fight if you ever get jumped, not to mention it telegraphs your every move........ what so they say about using this in combat?

[@Cieln0va]

you don't really use sine wave in a fight or sparring, usually, it's used in patterns, or at least in my club

[@ezemeza1363]

Sine wave is to make more atracttive the patterns

[@sassuki]

Patterns are not dances to be made attractive 😑

[@TaoistSwordsman]

Just like my teacher

[@acudaican]

Korean accents are so adorable.

[@coreycollins6703]

I'm a green belt and we don't train sine wave in my gym because most American tournaments grown heavily on it. As far as power generation, I'm going to test this before coming to any conclusion.

[@THEMARTIALARTSCHANNEL-bb4fx]

Dont be brain washed. Gravity pulls everything downwards, NOT forwards! There is no common sense or logic in what they are doing.

[@ridgerover8347]

Just supposing this is good, perfect, and right, It is only for an induvial movement like in a breaking demo, etc. A form or street fight, martial sport, kata, self-defense, etc, is made up of multiple movements that including moving forward, backwards or to the side, in a continuous fashion. One technique doesn't always end a fight in the traditional training way. Thats why forms have more than one movement and include multiple opponents. General Choi has mis-informed his students.........

[@orencio1969]

Sine wave movement disrupts final power delivery and break natural applications of movement which is a direct and straight path.

[@gabrielromeromeza]

Qué mas exactitud...

[@nddad305]

In traditional Taekwon-Do we do Not make this

[@Gieszkanne]

Some chinese styles force this by stomping. Most famous for it is Baji Quan. There once was a chinese documentation with scientiffical measurment that shows that this stomping realy increased power.

[@giovonnielewis4329]

In boxing the call it drop stepping or dropping your weight as you land a punch.

[@muzammal-h]

I used to do TKD for 7 years, about 30 years ago. We didn't have sine wave in our club - and I feel I prefer that. There's a danger in getting overly prescriptive that it stunts people finding their own way. If you draw on basic principles and hit a punch bag enough, you will find how you are able to generate more power. Add a bit of sparring, you will learn better to not telegraph.

[@thevangoghlavenderexperien938]

Sine wave isn't exclusive to TKD. If you watch closely, you'll see SW in almost every sport that requires impact, hitting a baseball with a bat, a golf swing, a volleyball set, a tennis swing, kicking a ball, etc. It looks strange at first, when you punch or kick in the air, but it works if you want power.

[@scarred10]

absolutely no other sport or martial art uses sine wave because it does not work to generate more power and in terms of combat application its completely worthless.I think you're mistaking what the sine wave is.It is not a dropping of the centre of gravity,its a downward movement followed by an upward movement followed with another downward movement,all done with no hip rotation as you can hear gen choi say on this video.Every other sport and effective art uses hip and torso rotation in a kinetic chain initiated by pushing against the ground.Its how a kid throws a ball or a bushman a spear,the action doesnt need to be taugth,its natural.it just needs refining to your sports specific needs.By the way,I was a black belt with the ITF for 15 yrs and attended several seminars with the masters and choi himself.He gave no consideration to whether something was practical so long as it was distinctive from other arts.

[@Polytrout]

The sine wave along with reaction force makes Tae Kwon-Do unique. I attended a clinic run by the General's son. I had my black stripe back then. We spent from10:00 am to 5:00 pm perfecting the sine wave and reaction force. What's so funny is we must have worked on the sine wave as applied to the inner forearm block for 2 and a half hours and IT DIDN'T EVEN GET BORING. When Master Choi demonstrated a technique, it was as if all the power in the universe came together to came together to execute the block or strike . Entering the Do-jang that morning, I believed that my inner forearm block was pretty good or at least okay. Then there were 2nd and 3rd degrees whom I considered excellent (at least compared to me). I walked out of that clinic humbled realizing just how little we knew about Tae Kwon-Do. Although a second and 3rd degree Black belt was far beyond me, I felt that compared with Master Choi, myself a black stripe, a 2nd and a 3rd degree were more or less together on the same level WAY below the Grandmaster Choi. When Master. By the way Master Choi himself was polite, gracious and unassuming.

[@anti_hero_660]

Nobody uses this in sparring

[@brothajack1993]

I did this stuff naturally during my TKD practises, but was always "corrected" by the idiot instructor whom was saying I made my movements look too 'dance like.' But to me, the way I did them, it felt correct and fluid and natural and more dynamic. It seems like my naturalness is correct if General Choi is pointing this out. THANKYOU!

[@sassuki]

Nothing natural about it. Just makes it easier for beginners without muscle power in their hips and legs. Once you develop that muscle power, the sine wave becomes a waste of energy

[@paavo3786]

The power comes from your hip rotation… Sine wave is too slow But ITF people claim to train the true TKD…it is like religion

[@heisenberg4977]

Unfortunately for wt practitioners, ITF it's the real Taekwondo. It hasn't changed (for the worse) like Taekwondo wt

[@paavo3786]

@@heisenberg4977 real or not real…the sine wave is nonsense and Choi has ruined ITF TKD as you can see in Germany and other countries where ITF is falling apart… That is why I started boxing where I do not have to ask myself where boxing comes from or if it is the „true“ combat style Boxing tolerates other combat styles…ITF does not as they are a sect

[@heisenberg4977]

@@paavo3786 You can practice whatever you want, the important thing is that you don't say anti-scientific things like "the wave movement makes no sense". Too bad General Choi studied some of the greatest modern physicists, precisely in order to create something that made the blows more powerful, which has absolutely nothing to do with Western boxing. Then, “Choi ruined Taekwondo”? But are you sure you have ever (I don't think) practiced Taekwondo? General Choi Hong Hi is unanimously recognized as the FATHER of modern Taekwondo.

[@heisenberg4977]

You can practice whatever you want, the important thing is that you don't say anti-scientific things like "the wave movement makes no sense". Too bad General Choi studied some of the greatest modern physicists, precisely in order to create something that made the blows more powerful, which has absolutely nothing to do with Western boxing. Then, “Choi ruined Taekwondo”? But are you sure you have ever (I don't think) practiced Taekwondo? General Choi Hong Hi is unanimously recognized as the FATHER of modern Taekwondo.

[@paavo3786]

@@heisenberg4977 I trained ITF TKD for a long time. Also trained Karate and Kickboxing. So I know a lot about Martial Arts. Beside ITF I also trained with a WTF group, who welcomed me kindly. So they have this „just let us train together attitude. Unfortunately ITF practicioners do not asking new club member if they train the „real“ TKD…it is a religious sect Until today ITF TKD practicioners live with the complex that WTF has olympic status. In my martial arts path I experienced that ITF is struggling over and over again as they always adjust this questionable sine movement, which is the reason why ITF in Germany is falling apart…