Why I Turned Down Working With Richard Dawkins

[@GeneticallyModifiedSkeptic]

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[@cwchadwynn]

seriously man you need to look into sumerian texts and watch paul wallis your authiest bias is blinding you on the topics around graham hancock ie the ancient past and people like paul wallis on religous texts like God or religious theology i have to say you are wrong on this matter however you have the right to your opinion even if you have not looked into the topic because it just sounds crazy to you so clearly it is not worth your effort. honestly i am not suprised because far to many claim to know the truth but are ignorant when it comes to these topics as to what the texts and evidence says or shows and the great thing about science is it is open to being proven wrong and changeing to the facts to the current understanding. no one has all the information on any topic and that is why differences of opinion's are debated untill we can agree on the topic and always be open to new evidance that may be of conflict to the current understanding.( also the dibble debunking hancock was proven incorrect dibble what he said was wrong ) < Edit

[@cwchadwynn]

also the joe rogan interview with dibble and hancock what dibble said was proven incorrect dibble was lieing so again you was wrong and outdated on the so called debunking.

[@severalwolves]

@@cwchadwynn might be time to take your meds

[@AJenbo]

@@cwchadwynn I can see you’re passionate about these topics, but your approach isn’t helping your case. Posting your reply in the wrong context makes it harder for others to take you seriously. On top of that, misusing terms like "authiest" and presenting disorganized arguments undermines your credibility. If you want your views considered, focus on being well-researched, balanced, and context-appropriate-how you communicate matters as much as what you say.

[@cwchadwynn]

@@AJenbo i apreciate your reply and i will agree that my comment might come across as attacking and i willsay my communicateing can be hard as i do sruggle with trying to comunicate a point clearly however i have repeatadly ask for the youtuber to look at what paul has stated on his videos and he does a much better job at comunicateing his ideas and the topic in general is ignored or rejected simply on the bases that what is being said ie aliens, is seen some what as coo coo all i am trying to say is that i have looked into this and i find it very convincing and its goes against both authiest and monothaistic ideas about God and many do not take it with any seriouseness so why would i waste my time looking into it is the stance many take i just thought that this channel being about religion would have found my findings at least of some intrest please forgive me if i came across as an attack it is not my intension i also have a public playlist of the channels and videos of intrest Non of my work so there is no monitary intrest in it for me and again thank you for your reply

[@mariaantoniajosephajohanna]

As an Egyptian, when yall got to the ancient aliens guy I let out an audible groan that contained all the frustration of my ancestors

[@nataschavisser573]

I feel you. The whole discourse is unbelievably racist.

[@AJenbo]

It's shocking how wide spread these miss conceptions have become. At Christmas dinner a family member told me that they where under the impression that it had been proven to be impossible for humans to build the pyramids after he watched the guys "documentary".

[@Blaineworld]

misses conceptions

[@yahia9481]

ملحدة مصرية ؟ تحياتي من الجزائر

[@robsimpson7319]

I'd say he'd be right. It would be too hard to build it the way they did. Before the invention of the wheel. Stones hand cut. Stones then lifted not via crane and lifting points but not really sure how they did it especially if slings were used because it's another lift to get slings out once positioned. If we could use our technology yeah it would be easier but if you want it exactly the same finished product yeah its tough to not possible. Ive seen many construction projects all sizes. Other experienced builders would say the same. Layman wouldn't see it until we actually try to do it.... Oh I get you now... Etc etc

[@rationalityrules]

Thank you for this thoughtful video, my friend. A principle isn't a principle until it costs you, and you've always been among the most principled people I've had the fortune of knowing. It's been surreal to watch not just Richard Dawkins, but so many figures in the sceptical, free-thinking realm so often abandon their own principles of evidence-based reasoning when it comes to especially trans topics. The Imane Khelif case is particularly striking-a simple fact-check would have revealed the truth, yet even scholars like Dawkins failed to perform even this basic level of research. Having once been influenced by anti-trans propaganda myself, I understand the allure of seemingly convincing narratives. However, the true spirit of scepticism demands we remain open to correction and willing to revise our views in light of the evidence. Dawkins' stubborn persistence in the face of contrary evidence isn't just disappointing-it's a betrayal of the scientific method he spent decades defending. Perhaps the most painful irony is that Dawkins, who taught so many of us to question dogma and follow evidence wherever it leads, has become an example of what happens when we let our preconceptions overcome our commitment to truth. For me, at least, his legacy now carries a final, unintended lesson: intellectual humility must be a lifelong practice.

[@donnievance1942]

The deliberate habit of explicitly asking oneself, "Could I be wrong about this?" must be a lifelong practice for every honest person.

[@pietrobassani6956]

you two just traded a religion for another, sad

[@FrozEnbyWolf150-b9t]

@@pietrobassani6956 Define religion. If you were honest about it, you'd find the definition doesn't say what you think it says.

[@GeneticallyModifiedSkeptic]

Thanks, Steve. As Hemant said in the full version of our conversation, many of us, including Hemant and I, have not always “been there” when it comes to opposing bigotry and misinformation disguised as warranted skepticism. We’ve bought into it too at times, and we’ve got to be thankful that people took the time to help us do better. With Dawkins, I don’t hold much hope he’ll change his mind or approach. But for those in his audience, and even for those who shared the stage with him on his tour, there’s still time to reflect and change.

[@isdrakon9802]

​@@pietrobassani6956what religion did they turn to exactly. I don't think the pursuit of evidence based truth is religious in any fashion. The topic of trans people doesn't have any worship or tenants

[@yoatzinpenaflor1262]

I'm 1000% more excited of you talking to The Friendly Atheist than to Dawkins, hands down.

[@CorwinFound]

The only disappointment is in my likely vain hope that Drew debating Dawkins on this issue would maybe reach people on the fence. The people who believe Dawkins because he is/was a respected scientist and assume he must be right, but haven't seen the evidence. But in the end, it likely wouldn't have worked and Drew has the opportunity to _prove_ he isn't a grifter or panderer. He literally gave up a chance of a lifetime because of his principles. Humans don't get a lot better than that.

[@swiitchy511]

F that I wanna hear Dawkins

[@daemonsdiablo]

@@swiitchy511want to hear Dawkins make shit up? Or just ape the evangelical position, because it’s easy to find both at this point. His bigotry has overtaken his skepticism.

[@swiitchy511]

@daemonsdiablo tell me one bigoted thing Dr. Dawkins has said?

[@daemonsdiablo]

@ did you not watch the video you’re commenting on? That’s literally what a large chunk of it is about. Multiple examples are given.

[@xXEGPXx]

Dawkins let his personal biases take over facts, he figures that he is smart enough and could stop learning 40 years ago, its upsetting to watch.

[@robertb6889]

Human nature.

[@LLandS18]

It is. His book the selfish Gene And the god delusion is what helped me find my way to secularism.

[@littlebitofhope1489]

Since this all happened after his stroke, I give him a pass. I don't agree with him, but I think simply ignoring him is the best thing to do. Be sad that his brain has changed. Any disability is sad. But don't assume that this is a choice.

[@BUSeixas11]

Can you give an example of his bias?

[@cuauhtez]

I don’t mean to denigrate anyone who is a fan of Dawkins but many of the criticisms he receives today were laid out in the past as well. He has always put a narrative of how he understood the world to be above actual science. Atheism, or more precisely, anti-theocracy, was just his calling card. It also stands out more because he feels so inclined to speak outside of his expertise today.

[@Nick_Vendel]

As a Russian, whenever you see/hear "ГазПром" (GazProm or GasProm, and yes, Drew pronounced it correctly), you can be almost sure there's something shady going on.

[@francescoghizzo]

As an italian, unfortunately, I can attest that russian propaganda has infiltrated Europe succesfully and is really strong in the media. Energy companies like Gazprom or ENI finance political pundits to spread anti west and anti liberal democracy sentiments

[@Bananova-slupka]

jup, it definitely starts to stink

[@CorwinFound]

The only thing that concerns me is that "Russian" is starting to be seen again as synonymous with shady, manipulative, etc. "It's the Russians" is starting to have a stank on it when what people (I hope) mean is "Russian political operatives." Russian folk be folk. Just like every folk. And Russian government and oligarchs are really only different from government and oligarchs around the world because they have less checks on power.

[@MrDalisclock]

IIRC Gazprom is a major political player in Russia and apparently has it's own PMC if I'm not mistaken.

[@caffetiel]

​@@CorwinFound Between the state and Russian scammers and botnets it's probably just sensible to treat ones you're not meeting in person with a great deal of suspicion.

[@Planarwalk]

"Why does all the bullying go one way?" I don't think Dawkins realises the backlash that trans people face. I lost many subscribers when I came out as trans, I constantly get anti trans comments. I have even been brigaded once by hundreds transphobes on Twitter. To say that only transphobes or the gender critical crowd get bullied is incredibly ignorant.

[@DrachenGothik666]

You rock. I catch your videos every now & again.

[@hairymcnipples]

@@Planarwalk yeah, misrepresenting criticism as bullying is a common canard for bigots, transphobes definitely included.

[@josephbelisle5792]

Sadly, this is the MO of these people. Victimize others and claim victimhood. Its like how slave owners would talk about the 'white mans burden' of having to take care of people of color because they cant do it themselves. These people commit atrocities and try to pursuade themselves and others that they are good.

[@TheRandomIzzy]

@@Planarwalk It seriously shows a huge disconnect from reality. The things people say to trans people are insanely cruel, and constant. Sorry you have to experience that.

[@GoodrichthysEskdalensis]

Planarwalk?

[@sjzara]

He was an intellectual hero of mine for decades. We corresponded as friends. I’m mentioned in one of his books. I knew he could be stubborn on some issues, but I have changed his mind at least once. But I just couldn’t get past his attitudes to trans rights. I feel hugely disappointed and I just can’t be associated with him, no matter how indirectly. He’s doing real harm. I’m writing a science book. I could probably have got support for it from him. I don’t want it. You are one of the people I now mention as true promoters of reason. It’s very important to be able to point out public atheists who aren’t promoting bigoted information.

[@cristianpissai7563]

You're a real one for all that and it's hugely appreciated, just wanted you to know.

[@littlebitofhope1489]

You should show him compassion instead. You just never know how brain damage will effect someone, and you can date these changes to that. Should you support or agree with him? No, but to be "hugely disappointed" is wrong. Would you be hugely disappointed in him if it was his spine, and he couldn't walk? It still amazes me how even intelligent people can't understand that having a stroke and then a personality change are related. It's also ugly.

[@BUSeixas11]

There are only two biological sexes, males and females, who make sperm and eggs. There is no such things as bigoted facts.

[@chikkipop]

*"I just couldn’t get past his attitudes to trans rights."* Could you provide an example of his attitude that so troubled you?

[@claytonreeves150]

@@littlebitofhope1489 I don't care why someone has a terrible, demonstrably wrong opinion. It doesn't change how terrible and demonstrably wrong the opinion is, or how it hurts people.

[@amathystunicorn]

Thank you Drew, for sticking with your morals. I also appreciate you standing up for the LBGTQ+ community.

[@edgarsliepins1866]

LBGTQ+ is a sham. I love how people can yell "trust the science" on one issue but openly and proudly disregard science on another issue. The gall to think that one of the worlds most prolific educator about genes and sexual reproduction doesn't know how many genders there are! If there actually would be a mechanism in the human biology to transform sex to the opposite, Dawkins would be among the many writing about it. Or maybe there is a conspiracy in the sciences to hide that we are actually hermaphrodites? Lefties... thinking that a desire for social acceptance changes what's going on under the hood... magical thinking... very similar to religious thinking.

[@n0etic_f0x]

Not to mention this is... apocalyptic to people who think we basically worship Dawkins. The idea that we *may* actively dislike someone as massive as him to them is basically a mythical creature to many religious people, not all, but many.

[@MrKingishere1]

@@amathystunicorn I’m atheist and don’t support Transgenderism

[@Chukuchuku.a.o]

He is part of the community. Duuuuhh

[@MarkLeBay]

Better to talk to him and say your piece than to create a faction

[@BBJBS]

Dawkins is the cautionary tale that leads me to be careful that my distaste for religion in general isn't twisted to the benefit of one particular religion.

[@naomistarlight6178]

I used to be a "militant atheist" type and I also see this as a cautionary tale, that not everyone who isn't religious is automatically rational, and that not siding with traditional religion doesn't make you wiser necessarily. It's not "religion poisons everything" but that people are corruptible. By more than just religion. People also need to be resilient against, and aware of, how the media they consume influences them.

[@antediluvianatheist5262]

Yup. I used to be very anti religion. right up until i saw the use of it in fighting against the empire. Does not magically make god real, but it does serve a purpose.

[@BlanBonco]

Don't be too cautionary Dawkins is probably an introvert who painted a huge target on his back and the religious usually only have world class manipulation in their toolbox. Shrinking down is also what they want 100%

[@Doubleranged1]

I have met some virtuous and wise religious people. Their religion is stupid. They were not. It is always valuable to see others as people, capable of both good and evil, regardless of beliefs or politics.

[@shrekiscool4743]

​@@naomistarlight6178 yeah religion is one of many factors that can both negatively or positively influence someone's reasoning

[@_aconite_cj_]

This is it man, Andrew is official one of my fav atheist youtubers ever. Like I did NOT think he could get any better than defending us trans people but now he released this. I mean, Dawkins is highly respected as a defender for evolution and atheism, but barely anybody tries to acknowledge the shitty opinions he has formed over the years. It really hurt me as a trans person. I'm so glaad Drew is saying something about this. Much love to him and this channel and the wonderful people who continue to support and watch him ♡ Edit: typo correction :p

[@GeneticallyModifiedSkeptic]

I really appreciate this! 🩷🤍💙 Although, I feel refusing to parrot Russian disinformation or promote grifters is really the bare minimum for a “skeptic” type guy. Fortunately, there are many more atheist creators who also defend trans people and would refuse Dawkins if given the opportunity.

[@_aconite_cj_]

@GeneticallyModifiedSkeptic you're always doing an amazin work and cranking out dope ass videos, both you and Taylor, I love both of you, thank you. And yes it does feel good to know there are trans supportive atheists out there, restores my faith in humanity :3

[@chikkipop]

So, could you provide an example of just what Dawkins has said that requires a defense from it? What are the opinions he has formed, and can you show where he says what his offensive opinions are?

[@EricDMurphy]

​@chikkipop they're clearly stated and evidenced in the video. You should watch it.

[@JoePenguinPtakk]

@@_aconite_cj_ Richard Dawkins is not a threat to you. Never was. Maybe you’re a threat to yourself if you don’t constantly have your affirmation, but that’s ultimately nobody’s problem but yours.

[@Mrballerize]

Dawkins is proof that Athiesm doesn't magically make one not conservative politically. A politically left leaning Athiest has a lot more in common with liberal/left leaning theologians like John Shelby Spong than they do with Dawkins.

[@tristanmills4948]

Absolutely. I can disagree with religious people on religion, but am happy to work with them on social issues. The church up the road from me is openly accepting of trans people, and support abortion rights. I have more in common with them than with Dawkins and these right wing atheists. Maybe it's because my identity is not built about atheism.

[@marcomoreno6748]

I smelled this stench ye olde new atheists days. It's why I've always said I'm progressive 1st, vegan-friendly 2nd and atheist 99th.

[@edgarsliepins1866]

No better way to say that leftism is a theology

[@antediluvianatheist5262]

@@edgarsliepins1866 No, it's not.

[@edgarsliepins1866]

@@antediluvianatheist5262 of course it is. Believers derive meaning out of it's tenants of equality, inclusion, social justice etc. Believers ostracize detractors, chant whatever the preacher at the front tells them to chant, try to form laws to force others to adapt their beliefs and adhere to their rules. The same old basic theology stuff that's been part of human history since the begging.

[@Mikae1300]

As one of the trans people in your audience--thank you. Thank you so much for taking this stance. Your willingness to turn down the potential financial and social benefits from talking to Dawkins is not an easy decision, yet you stuck to your principles. That's the sign of a true trans ally--thank you, thank you, thank you! Thank you for fighting with us!

[@SusannaSaunders]

I too wish to thank you! 😘 You are a true ally with genuine integrity.

[@MaisieSqueak]

The tone in her voice is so shaky. "how dare you find women attractive and claim to be a woman yourself" she accuses... What... you mean Gay? What YOU are?

[@CausticMedeim]

Honestly, ever wanna show a friend what cognitive dissonance looks like, or sounds like? That clip is a perfect example. She's shaking from the subconscious shock of basically saying about someone else what people have said about her, her whole life.

[@FaryaWolyo_]

​@@CausticMedeimIt'd be funny if it weren't so profoundly sad.

[@fruitylerlups530]

I love how TERFs have attached themselves the Blanchard, who has amazing views like "men cant be bisexual" and "women dont have sexuality", and for Dawkins who loves science, to see a guy whose studies have been thoroughly slammed for lack of falsifiability, selector bias and just straight up weird conclusions (3 year old boys can be autogynephiles or homosexual transsexuals for expressing feminine behaviour, but since we cant actually test their arousal patterns, we can just wing it and say the "cute" ones are hsts, literally what Bailey and Blanchard have argued.. phrenology on little boys to see if theyll be dolls(

[@xp7575]

Trans activists (aka cis and non-binary fake Leftists) are the biggest threat to the LGBT community in the past 50 years, y'all need to stfu before you get more of us ki11ed, you do nothing but create hate for us 💯

[@A_Professional_Idiot_mk.2]

the ground news ad transitions are genuinely hilariously smooth at this point

[@GeneticallyModifiedSkeptic]

Hahah thank you. Tbh it’s really easy bc there’s nearly always something in the news that’s relevant to what I’m talking about.

[@CorwinFound]

​@@GeneticallyModifiedSkepticIt's a testament to you (and team?) choosing sponsors that fit your channel. Like yeah, you could get some of that sweet, sweet Raid money. But imagine the transition!?! And so far, so good, no horrible exposé on how problematic Ground News is.

[@joyousdog1]

@@GeneticallyModifiedSkeptic It's like the modern version of the ads hosts used to do on live TV in the 1950s. I'll take Ground News over Lucky Strike cigarettes any time!

[@shrekiscool4743]

​@@CorwinFound yeah cause unlike something like Honey it's very clear they make money from the fact that it's a subscription service

[@alstaniforth]

“People on my side tend to be Brexiters, anti-vaxxers and Evangelical Christians.” Uh…. Huh.

[@CorwinFound]

Yep! When Not-Sees show up to support you... You might want to rethink your stances. And that isn't hyperbole. Actual Neo-Not-Sees have been invited to, shown up, and spoken at anti-trans events. I've seen video of TERF's literally reading from Mein Kampf, and not to compare supposed radical trans activists to AH. Rather to show that he was correct! A person or group can absolutely be judged by the company they keep.

[@DrachenGothik666]

When all of the people on your side are awful, vile anti-science grifters & bigots with horrible ideas, it might be time to reassess your position on things, don't you think? You'd think someone with the supposed intelligence of Dawkins would figure that out, but grandpa doesn't seem to get how anything works.

[@Ashakat42]

Yeah people who are normally wrong can be right on some subjects. It's an odd appeal to authority to say that only your side can come up with the correct answers to things

[@shrekiscool4743]

​@@Ashakat42 when most of the people agreeing with you are crackpot conspiracy theorists though I think you may want to reassess some of your preconceived notions about the issue at hand

[@nw42]

@@Ashakat42 Sure, they _can_ be right on some subjects. For example, I’m sure we could find a lot of common ground on something like “arson is bad”… although “don’t eat horse de-wormer” would probably be a lot more fraught. … and that’s really the point. The issue is the KINDS of subjects they tend to be wrong about: namely, science and social issues-and especially the intersection of science and social issues, where they have a proven track record of flatly rejecting any science that challenges their ideology. Which, true, isn’t a guarantee that they’ll always be wrong… but it’s a massive red flag which, at a minimum, should be acknowledged.

[@of5606]

Andrew, i have unsubscribed from basically every atheist channel on yt during these last few years. The topic simply lost my interest, despite me remaining a nonbeliever. Your and taylors channels are the only ones that remain. Thank you for continuing to be true to yourself.

[@PalindromeLane]

same!!

[@Ssstone3.14]

So youve been sucked in by transism? Cool...

[@spiceupyourafterlife]

Likewise. Andrew and Taylor seem to be the only atheist KZbinrs that actually seem like decent human beings.

[@SadisticSenpai61]

@@spiceupyourafterlife May I recommend you check out Paulogia, Viced Rhino, Shannon Q, Gutsick Gibbon, Creaky Blinder, and SciManDan? Okay, the last two are probably atheists (I'm not sure they've ever officially said), but they're more focused on tackling psuedo-science and flat earthers. Gutsick Gibbon has a lot of fun science education videos - she's a primatologist. Well, fun for me - I'm a nerd. lol

[@cy-one]

@@SadisticSenpai61 DarkMatter is also a good one. He recently had an epiphany about "wokeness" which was pretty nice to watch.

[@xaneslater]

Since his attack on Rebecca Watson just casually mentioning an uncomfortable experience at atheist conference, I've never liked Dawkins.

[@GeneticallyModifiedSkeptic]

Same. I’ve had the chance to meet him several times over the years and I’ve never wanted to. He’s such a golden calf for the atheist world.

[@shassett79]

Yeah, "Elevatorgate" definitely caused me to view him in a different light and he's just been kind of disappointing this last decade.

[@alarcon99]

@xaneslater same. And Rebecca’s content continues to be 🧑‍🍳 😘

[@FrozEnbyWolf150-b9t]

And he did this _before_ the medical condition people are using to excuse him.

[@n0etic_f0x]

Yeah, I agree, and I am not even the biggest fan of Rebecca; less of a fan of Dawkins, though, as I think she does fantastic work. I just find her to be too much of a biological essentialist. This is something I can disagree with her on, but unlike Dawkins, I don't think she is outright spreading disinformation.

[@iammrbeat]

I think he knows who you are. 😏

[@lolidkstudio]

hey its mr beat

[@GeneticallyModifiedSkeptic]

Holy crap, it’s Mr. Breast! If you keep up the compliments then it’s ok if you don’t give me money

[@TheFirstAtom]

@@GeneticallyModifiedSkepticMr Breast 😂

[@jorgethevanguard]

@@GeneticallyModifiedSkepticMr.Breast? lol

[@naomistarlight6178]

19:10 wild, where the hell are these parents who hate the idea of a gay child but would love a trans one, like make it make sense... trans does not mean "perfect conforming to the expectations, even ridiculous conservative ones, of the target gender" ffs...

[@CorwinFound]

So this maybe does happen... but not in the US, most of Europe or other western/Judeo-Christian areas to my knowledge. In the middle East however, there is less transphobia than homophobia, at least legally. Although being trans is stigmatized, being gay can result in the death penalty. About a decade ago there were a lot of stories about gay people in the middle East being forced to transition. I honestly can't confirm it one way or the other. But certainly the _story_ exists that in some places gay and lesbian people are encouraged/forced to transition. And TERFs and transphobes of all types have latched onto the idea.

[@Anonyomus_commenter]

Iran is a regional haven for trans affirming care so it does happen. Iran isn’t a great place to be trans, but it’s far better than being gay in Iran

[@caffetiel]

​@@CorwinFound Literally only from Iran, and life for trans women there still fucking blows. You don't get the benefits of being able to live on the dl, either, and so Irani trans women live most often in abject poverty. Trans men do relatively well and do their part to hate trans women. The rest throw us all in the pit regardless.

[@thomasfplm]

Adding to Corwin, in some Asian countries it is easier for families to accept a trans person in their "new societal role" than to accept a homossexual person that won't fit the role of their gender.

[@_allegra]

My dad has said he would find it easier to accept me if I was gay, rather than trans. Jokes on him - transitioning has only made me more gay lol

[@shassett79]

I don't know why, but I'm always surprised by the undercurrent of frothing transphobia within the online atheist community. Can't we all just make fun of theism and also be compassionate about lgbtq people?

[@claytonreeves150]

It's not just about dunking on tired superstitions for a lot of these people. It's about being superior. Which is, quite frankly, the exact thing that religions do.

[@shassett79]

​@@claytonreeves150Right? I thought we didn't like theism because it promoted dogmatic thinking? But a lot of the same people who discard religion over misogyny or homophobia seem like they're all in on dehumanizing/attacking trans people.

[@sygtymatory6667]

Could it be because in the same way atheist mock the idea of a grandfather god creating the whole world just to have a relation with you as an illusion and a whishfull way of thinking, they tend to mock the idea that someone is what they think they, whatever it may be? "I think therefor I am" with another meaning. We fought to have the right to mock religious people's beliefs but now we can't mock the belief that somebody that feels they are a woman, are a woman although they are a biological male. I'm not asking you to agree on my stance on the trans debate, but can you agree that there is a problem when making fun of a belief is not allowed anymore?

[@donnievance1942]

I'm not aware of an "undercurrent of frothing transphobia within the online atheist community." I know it's out there, but it doesn't seem like a dominant trend to me.

[@jonathanfriedel]

What does one have to do with the other?

[@tristanmills4948]

It's odd that 'cancelling' basically means criticizing white men who are used to having their own way (and mostly still do), whilst those who are marginalized already are cancelled on a daily basis by society. Anyone who can loudly claim they're being 'cancelled' is always someone who has a platform to make that claim, and so is not being cancelled.

[@naomistarlight6178]

If you sell a million books, you're not being canceled. Or if you get a comedy special on Netflix. They're really in a privilege bubble. Painfully out of touch.

[@NJ-wb1cz]

@@naomistarlight6178 it sounds more like, "I grew to become an established idol so I earned my right to be adored regardless what I'm doing". And this isn't limited to some particular ethnicity, see Kanye and Diddy etc

[@jakes658]

White men don't dominate society anymore...

[@DarthWoodrack]

‘How *dare* my words and actions have consequences! You all should uncritically absorb everything I say, and continue enjoying everything I produce and giving me unreasonable amounts of money! It’s not like forming personal opinions about celebrities and then informing decisions on what projects to consume is a basic structure of the media landscape or anything!’ Like, cancel culture does have problems, that’s when out of touch idiots start attacking mostly innocent people for the most mild of perceived slights, such as when Critical Role received an entirely undeserved wave of backlash for doing a collaboration with Wendies, to the point where they had to take down the oneshot and apologize. On the other hand, when Rowling starts spewing anti trans hate, regularly refuses to engage in the debate she’s launched herself into, starts openly mocking innocent people, and insulting the legacy of feminist advocates by taking their quotes of context to support her bigoted ideology that they were expressly against, she deserves backlash. When a boxer who happens to look masculine beats a Russian boxer and suddenly bigots all over the internet start barraging her with insane conspiracy theories, that’s not okay. Idiotic ignorant hate sources from all sources of the internet, and the big name celebrities calling ‘CANCEL CULTURE,’ when they face natural consequences for their actions are not examples of it.

[@NJ-wb1cz]

@@DarthWoodrack this is a very comforting but entirely partisan take that amounts to "only the stuff that I approve of should happen". Our stance on the issues of free speech is defined by how we want to treat the speech we don't like and don't agree with and want to stop

[@mmoreno7137]

I don't know if it is true, but at the time I saw an article on the Olympic boxing issue where the writer claimed that the lab cited by the Russian boxing body does not list chromosomal testing as a service it offers on its website. If true that really does blow the whole issue out of the water.

[@NJ-wb1cz]

Who cares, this isn't a standard in any sport to mandate only XY, and it goes against the definitions of gender in countless countries all over the world. Including super conservative ones like Algeria and Iran. You can't have an Olympic body presumably aimed at bringing all people and cultures together proclaim that women as they have been culturally and legally defined all over the world for countless years suddenly stopped being women and became men

[@CorwinFound]

Yep! The lab did a very brief press release saying they don't do chromosomal or the type of hormone testing that would indicate if someone is trans. They are a lab specialized in sports doping. So the IBA was flat out lying. And changing from chromosome to hormones as "the test" didn't make them seem more reliable.

[@Anonyomus_commenter]

@@CorwinFoundAlso worth noting that she got expelled after beating a previously undefeated Russian.

[@rudolfst3367]

There is a full leaked report. The person is male. We'll see how the lawsuit goes, but my guess is it will never happen or will get dropped for obvious reasons.

[@DarthWoodrack]

Honestly, this whole situation really helped me resolve my subconscious antitheism(being actively against the concept of religion). Like, I still don’t believe in religion, and think that any fair analysis of the factual claims made in religion doctrine should make you change your views, but this has helped me realize that religion is not specifically a source of evil. Bigotry and hate comes from all corners, and it needs to be fought from every angle, not just the religious one.

[@chikkipop]

Everyone should be against religion because it teaches people to accept falsehoods. Nothing about being an antitheist is either bigoted or hateful.

[@maxsalmon4980]

@@chikkipop No, but it doesn't make someone immune to bigotry either. You can embrace empiricism in one arena (say, in regards to religious issues), and still succumb to prejudices and bigotry on others. Rejecting religion is a good start, but the work doesn't stop there.

[@tristanmills4948]

I always like to cite the tyrannical officially atheist regimes like the USSR to those atheists who say you need religion for atrocities. Religion is one of the excuses for atrocities, maybe one of the most common, but it is not the only one.

[@Cara.314]

@@chikkipop the point is you cant stop there, you must also actively fight bigotry and hate, because those who dont believe in religion can also be influenced by it and you see what we have here, Richard Dawkins agreeing with bigotry. People who should be reasonable and logical using the same bad logic as religious people to justify their own distain for some group of people they simply dont understand.

[@marcomoreno6748]

I'm no longer antitheist, in part because I do have a religion again, Satanism. I am against superstition, because "superstition allows you to not have to think."

[@Kongrisser]

Marginalized people who have been paying attention to Dawkins for years aren't really surprised by this pivot to bigotry. He's always had weird attitudes towards women, for example. Thanks for putting this critique together Drew.

[@Robert0Pirie]

Thank you for standing up against misinformation. As a member of the LGBTQ+ community, it means a lot when people refuse to boost the voices of those who have chosen to justify bigotry by cloaking it behind an uninformed or misinformed opinion masquerading as "rationality." It means a great deal more when folks speak out against it.

[@ImrdIstt.SH.]

I really admired dawkins for a long time, when my only exposure to him was reading the god delusion. i thought it was an extremely well-reasoned and well-written book. then i heard all his bullshit about being a "cultural christian" and an antisemite

[@adamant8435]

What's wrong with him calling himself a cultural Christian

[@BillDavies-ej6ye]

I'm guessing some people don't know what being a "cultural christian" means.

[@littlebitofhope1489]

When people have brain damage, I always give them a pass. Even minor damage in the right place can cause pretty big changes. That doesn't mean I give him my money, but it's wrong to bash him for the changes. He should be met with compassion, not hate. I am really disappointed that my community can't see this.

[@mr.le-capibar]

Totally, I think these last years must have been real shitty for him to change so much in that way. The guy was a serious scientist and an example of science divulgation. 😢

[@jamierichardson7683]

You should read his science work.

[@Rhewin]

Most annoying to me is how apologists still appeal to Dawkins as some kind of atheist prophet.

[@marknieuweboer8099]

That's because too many atheists - even in this comment section - hail him as their prophet. I simply silence such apologists by asking "Why should I defend such a quack philosopher? Do you need your strawmen that badly?"

[@monkeytime9851]

@@marknieuweboer8099 We shouldn't judge anything he says based on opinions of him as a person. He makes good points on atheism, and they remain good points even if you then dislike him due to his other views.

[@Robalexwalter]

I agree, though I think we can still call upon & reference Dawkins’ early work & contributions without idolizing him. It’s akin to recognizing there are good ideas in Jefferson’s Declaration of Independence & condemnation of slavery, despite his racist views & owning personal slaves. A person can still be a monster, and yet contribute rational, moral ideas. If we only consider the views of those we see as “perfectly moral & rational,” we won’t have any wisdom to draw upon. 💯 Just as in all things, a binary view of any subject often overlooks the nuance.

[@rs72098]

This issue will destroy and divide the Democrats. How many scientists, geneticists, evolutionists do you want to alienate? How many elections do you want to lose? This is where far left atheism will eat itself.

[@iridescent880]

We atheists/ agnostics should eat our own too. Nobody is special enough to not be questioned or corrected. There are times when religious individuals have done and said bad things but I’ve also seen some anti-theists do and say some pretty cringe and ignorant things. Being religious or not alone is not a measure of character or intelligence.

[@Sweeti924]

That's what the video is all about but ok.

[@iridescent880]

@ could’ve just kept scrolling if you didn’t like it.

[@skittlemilks1614]

Woman here. Not a single trans woman has ever harmed or threatened me, something I can’t say about cis conservative men.

[@Ashakat42]

Anecdotal evidence is the worst kind of evidence. Any skeptic worth a damn knows that.

[@Spacewith2224]

@@Ashakat42well you will be happy to know not just anecdotal evidence supports this :)

[@Lillypad12]

It's the cis men just claiming to be women thanks to self ID that you have to worry about. I do wonder if you'd actually report it considering you'd be deemed transphobic if it ever did happen and you accused a trans woman of SA you. The problem isn't trans women, it's the cis men who will abuse the self ID policies.

[@littlefurrow2437]

​@@Ashakat42 so... what's your real problem?

[@josephbelisle5792]

​@@Ashakat42sharpen up on your word definitions. This person is speaking of personal experience not anecdotally. No claim was made beyond experience.

[@ashurean]

A prime example of why it is so important to be wary of idolizing people. We're all human, and even the most learned of us can be rendered idiots by our own malignant pride and self-certainty.

[@lakeysha_o]

I'm happy for you man. That's a hard decision to make and I'm proud as a subscriber.

[@moonbeam0099]

I'm sorry you have to suffer through all these horrible comments. There are really a lot of anti-queer, anti-trans, misogynistic people in the athiest community. This saddens me greatly, as these are prime reasons to abandon religion. Thank you for all you and Taylor do! ❤ Keep up he real good work!!

[@chikkipop]

*"I'm sorry you have to suffer through all these horrible comments."* I'm sure there must be something awful here, but I haven't waded through all the comments. Can you give any examples?

[@dooshnukem32]

​@@chikkipopCan you not do anything for yourself? What makes you think everyone here needs to think for and explain everything to you?

[@jonathanfriedel]

Atheism and Trans have nothing to do with each other. While they often may intersect across the map of life, the only common factor amongst atheist is they don't believe in god. Trans people can still believe in god.

[@ballsymcfee9882]

We can't forget about Tay-tay! They're so cute together, and they seem like they have a really healthy relationship too. They support and love each other to the moon and back. I can see it when they look at each other and blush sometimes. I would love to have a relationship like that.

[@Mobius_ll]

Same energy as 'Islamophobia' , someone calling you wrong or dumb is not the same thing.

[@eonmusic00001]

As a trans woman, who is not able to present as myself in my day to day. I thank you for standing by my, and the communities side

[@karagi101]

You can identify as female in gender but you’re still male in sex. Gametes define sex. The type of gamete you were born to potentially produce defines your sex.

[@muchanadziko6378]

how is he standing by your side by not engaging with people who are opposed to you?

[@lizd2943]

@@karagi101 Sex is occasionally a little more complicated than that. Some women don't produce gametes at all.

[@fruitylerlups530]

​@@muchanadziko6378hes not further devolving the discourse

[@padinspi11]

​@@muchanadziko6378He is actively debunking the very misinformation that makes their lives so hard/stops the situation from getting better. That's a pretty good way to help i'd say

[@peterstedman6140]

What the hell are these awful comments? I guess the title brings them out of the woodwork.

[@chikkipop]

What awful comments do you mean? It seems no one here specifies what they're talking about.

[@peterstedman6140]

@@chikkipop I watched the video too early after it came out I guess, so I had the braindead takes before the regular stuff rises to the top. Sorry to be unclear.

[@antediluvianatheist5262]

@@chikkipop You, mainly.

[@CorwinFound]

​@@antediluvianatheist5262Seriously, this guy is literally in every single comment. It's amazing. But hey. He's boosting the video for the algorithm gods, so all good.

[@ramigilneas9274]

A little reality check can help sometimes.

[@jacobhholt]

Totally off topic... How would an interview with Brittney Hartley go? Her perspective on religion decodes the mechanical nature of religion and how it lines up with human psychology, not her language but my sense of it, breaking down us as humans yearning for the need for ritual, story, community and purpose. It's very rational, flexible, without all the woohoo spirituality of crystals or blood rituals. Has anyone else heard about her?

[@GeneticallyModifiedSkeptic]

Britt Hartley is great! I’d totally collab with her

[@Hario338]

This is kinda why I'm a little skeptical of what Alex O'Connor (formerly Cosmic Skeptic) is up to nowadays. I understand that he's trying to platform and challenge all kinds of ideas, but its worrying when I hear things about "woke nonsense" go unchallenged, even when its to keep the conversation on track, I feel like it continues to fuel these flames.

[@SpaveFrostKing]

Exactly my thoughts. He's not challenging ideas in any meaningful way, because you can't challenge the beliefs of bad faith actors who fundamentally don't care if their argument is correct.

[@illdie314]

This. He has some variety in the views of people he talks to but there is just so much platforming of views that are unambiguously harmful to queer folks like me without any real challenge. Seeing that type of content from him makes me feel less safe, I'm so grateful Drew has been such a vocal and principled advocate.

[@sohu86x]

I'm almost certain he will announce his conversion to Christianity in our lifetime.

[@bibaolaitan5189]

And yet you guys believe you are not in a cult. You are ostratizing alex now because he platforms ppl with diff opinions. The horror!!..

[@SpaveFrostKing]

@@bibaolaitan5189 No one is ostracizing Alex, people just disagree with some of his choices as of late. If listening to people you disagree with is so important, you're doing a bad job actually listening to Drew and commenters here.

[@Tastiest-of-Cakes]

I'm not surprised you decided against working with him. It's very clear to me that you are someone who actually holds to their morals, money be damned. Taylor, as well. Keep doing the awesome work you do!

[@shassett79]

I was kind of over Dawkins after the Rebeccca Watson debacle.

[@chikkipop]

He was right. There is no question that once young SJ warriors became attracted to the atheist movement it became entangled in all sorts of nonsense, just as we see on so many college campuses. Remember "Atheism+"?

[@shassett79]

​@@chikkipopNo, he wasn't right. That's the point lol.

[@solacedagony1234]

@@chikkipop Still waiting for you to watch the video.

[@meej33]

@@chikkipop You do not have the first clue about what happened with Rebecca Watson, do you?

[@ShrimpFarmerFromUranus]

@@meej33 No, they don´t. But as much as they may seem like an useless sack of manure they feed the mighty algorithm. So...thanks I guess?

[@LilFeralGangrel]

"Nothing about us, without us." This is something that has often been said in the trans community. For the last ten years there's been a lot about us without us. And not just without us but without experts on the subject matter, without medical experts, without expert input. The community is silenced and so are researchers who would speak in our defence. Why? Because we are all "biased". I want to thank you Drew and Hemant for being "biased" in our favour. For amplifying our voices and giving our perspectives a platform. Thank you. Thank you for fighting against the rising tide of hatred. Sincerely, An exhausted trans woman.

[@donnievance1942]

Much respect and kudos to you, GMS, for refusing to celebrity grift with Dawkins. Dawkins has disappointed me tremendously on the trans issue. It's hard to imagine such a noted scientist refusingl to inform himself on this issue. It's morally reprehensible.

[@celadewallace474]

I'm an old-timey lesbian... and in the last 5 years I've repeatedly experienced more and more disappointment in people who I once respected as valued critical thinkers. Hell, even the US Democratic party appears to have bought into the sanewashing of the woke-wars. This is not my timeline, I need to get back.

[@josephbelisle5792]

Um, you have access to a better timeline? One more conducive to civilized and rational people who respect others? Can I come?

[@SadisticSenpai61]

Perhaps the most infuriating part has been that while the GOP has been attacking trans ppl left and right for the past... 8 years? The Dems have said absolutely nothing on the subject. And the few that have spoken out? They've done so in _support_ of the GOP's bigotry! It's awfully hard for me to justify supporting their candidates when they're also saying that I shouldn't have the right to be myself. Don't get me wrong, I still voted for Harris and I don't regret that vote. But I also went into election day knowing that everything had to go just right for her to pull off a victory (based entirely on an analysis of the polling in swing states). That said, I'm not too surprised. When Hillary decided to pop up and offer her unsolicited advice prior to the election, it was to suggest that Dems abandon their trans voters and throw us under the bus to appease "moderate Republican voters." And as we in the US are well aware of - the Clintons still have an insane amount of influence on the Dem party. And as we saw in 2016 and again in 2024 (Harris hired Hillary's advisors and strategists), the Clintons don't know how to win elections in the 21st Century. They're still stuck in the 1990s and what won them elections back then.

[@ArchReverend]

Over the course of the last 12 years i have observed my own perspectives and biases shift from a more religious right wing to an atheist left wing and the major difference in those 12 years was me moving out of my parents house and being independent with my wife. This allowed me to see things more clearly and have conversations i cannot have with my family. Although I am now very accepting and supportive of LGBTQIA+ people and culture there are still some things from my old thinking that are hard for me to detach from but i do recognize the harm such opinions lead to so i just don't voice them. The more videos i watch on the subjects with loads of research and science to back it up, the more those old ideas and positions peal off the wall. It's an ongoing process but i have channels like this one, The Friendly Atheist, and Rationality Rules to thank for helping me evolve my position and opinions.

[@The_Other_Ghost]

As someone who works in live entertainment, I know you might be surprised who has heard of you... That said, you aren't watt malsh.

[@Godless_Doc]

Dawkins was extremely important during my de-conversion 25+ years ago and I owe him quite a bit for that. Nowadays, as an atheist in my early 60’s, he’s teaching me by example to not be complacent about my thinking or skepticism. BTW, even with the DSMIV, you’d have to have clinically significant distress or social/occupational impairment to have a diagnosis for gender dysphoria, even in the 1990’s.

[@CorwinFound]

So kinda old trans guy here. Came out at 45, five years ago. Best thing I ever did, even outside of gender issues. Making such a momentous change in my life forced me to relook at everything. My career, my politics, my relationships, my society, everything. Most things, including fundamental beliefs and opinions, didn't change dramatically, but it was all up for internal debate and scrutiny. I think the saddest thing about getting older is a learned inability to relearn. Obviously there are exceptions. Just because you've held an opinion a very long time doesn't make it better or more valid. The opposite. Imagine using that logic for anything else. "No new fangled medicine for me. I'll take the cocaine and cyanide tonic please!" You are 100% correct. Complacency, especially in thought and opinion, can be disastrous.

[@patrickb.4749]

That part was disingenuous, I was disappointed. He talked about how he fulfilled the two least serious criteria (female playmates/female hobbies), when the highlighted text on screen clearly said you need to fulfill 4 out of 5 and the ones he does not fulfill sound really serious (desire/insistance of being the other sex; cross-dressing; cross-gender roles in make-believe plays).

[@Godless_Doc]

@@patrickb.4749 there’s more to the old criterion than what he hi-lighted is all I’m saying.

[@nw42]

@@CorwinFound I just hit 50, and “learned inability to relearn” hits so deep. To an extent it almost seems like a societal expectation, which is utter BS.

[@SusannaSaunders]

As someone who transitioned a long time ago under the DSM-IV. I can confirm this.

[@lxUn1c0]

I loved Dawkins' early writings about evolution, but it's always a shame when a skeptic gets so down the rabbit-hole on a particular issue that they lose their ability to remain skeptical.

[@marknieuweboer8099]

Dwakins never was a skeptic. Skepticism requires questioning your own views, something Dawkins never did. He was just a very good biologist who incorrectly concluded that he was qualified for non-biological topics too.

[@Ssstone3.14]

Like drew and most yt atheists with trans.... such a shame 😢

[@DamnDealDone]

Skeptical of trans. You should try it.

[@shrekiscool4743]

​@@DamnDealDone I was skeptical of trans people at first too. Then I realised that trans people are people too and everything sorta just clicked. Basically all anti-trans rhetoric is based on dehumanisation and strawmans, similarly to most anti-immigration arguments (and no I'm not just saying that, agenda 47 literally calls immigrants "illegal aliens" to make people forget they're people with hopes and dreams and families)

[@hanifarroisimukhlis5989]

@@DamnDealDone I have. But when that skepticism become denialism it's no longer rational and straight into phobia.

[@sciencesaves]

I have turned down working with certain people of power through the years because of their personal stances and beliefs. It ALWAYS feels amazing to do the right thing. I don’t work for and promote people that have terrible social paradigms

[@karlscher5170]

How do you know what is the 'right thing'?

[@sciencesaves]

@ I’m sorry. It sounds like you may need a diagnosis if you don’t know what it means to do the right thing.

[@karlscher5170]

@@sciencesaves You want to send everyone into asylums who doesn't share your intuitive take on right and wrong?

[@Катюща-й9ч]

Seeing you stand outside that venue makes it clear that this isn't a decision you took lightly. Sincerely, thank you, as an LGBTQ+ person who is a huge fan of your content. Taking a stand on this and refusing to compromise your morals is why I love your channel. Thank you!

[@SusannaSaunders]

Indeed. It is these kinds of actions that demonstrate they (Drew) is walking the talk!

[@R1ver7th]

Personally, as a trans teen, i find it very creepy that adults think i have a sexual fetish

[@nw42]

When you put it that way… yeah, those adults are even creepier than I’d realized.

[@josephbelisle5792]

You dont and they are.

[@Rodrigo-me6nq]

You do and they aren't.

[@d007ization]

It is factual to say that (what they perceive to be) teenage boys are statistically likely to be interested in things of that nature, things that could often be labelled as "fetishes". Many people will remember this fact from their teen years and acting all outraged about them bringing up these memories is typical online nonsense that deserves no time or credence. Regardless, this is kind of a motte and bailey by you, most people only accuse adults (and teens who put no effort into passing) of this.

[@R1ver7th]

@Rodrigo-me6nq weird thing to say to a kid man

[@xalaxie]

autogynephilia is such utter pseudoscience nonsense. I have a friend who told me that she delayed her transition by a few years because she got bamboozled by this concept and it took time to realise it didn't solve any of the issues she was facing.

[@ChrisSmith-bh2hg]

I have heard that in Freudian psychology, there is a concept called penis envy. Sounds like the same thing from the opposite starting point.

[@mithilbhoras5951]

Ironic how Richard "Facts over Feelings" Dawkins let his feelings take over what is established facts in the medical world.

[@Mobius_ll]

As a biologist, what are the relevant facts he's missing?

[@Odima16]

@@Mobius_ll Ask a psychologist. Or watch the video.

[@kerrynisbet1514]

Ask a biologist who knows what they are talking about.

[@Mobius_ll]

@Odima16 pretty sure I didn't ask you, nevertheless, thanks for your genuine contribution to this conversation. You get a ⭐️

[@Anonyomus_commenter]

@@Mobius_ll Brain scans showing that trans women have brains more similar to cis women than cis men would probably be the main point of empirical evidence. Consistent surveys finding strongly that trans people felt more comfortable post transition (even despite the discrimination they then face) would be the other main one I would point to.

[@jj2mundale]

Thanks! Integrity rules

[@theredworkshop6921]

Doubt this'll get seen, but just wanted to express my gratitude that you're sticking up for the trans community

[@allthe1]

You're very strong to make these kinds of decisions. I love your content, your public persona, your tone, your honesty, and confident vulnerability. I'm not gonna lie, your content feels much less "engaging" than most skeptics and atheists: I'm never fuming, or panicking, after I watch your videos. I'm just glad I learned something new. But then again, I'm following you for these exact reasons, opposite to those you say you don't like Dawkins: you're not trying to make me angry, scare me, or sell me bullshit you're not qualified to talk about. I hope you keep on spreading these good values.

[@pansepot1490]

Not surprised. Many years ago I saw a clip of Dawkins talking to a creationist and trying to teach them about evolution. Ok, the creationist was extremely ignorant, naive and not very bright but what surprised me was Dawkins complete inability to connect, to understand where they came from, guess their thwarted way of reasoning and adapt his explanation to at least get some basics across. I got the impression that Dawkins was a cultivated man but not deeply intelligent as people thought. Later I saw him on stage with physicists admitting he didn’t have a clue about the Big Bang. It’s not his field but any KZbin atheist makes a point of reading up on the topic and understanding the basics concepts because it always comes up in discussions with theists. I don’t know if it’s intellectual laziness, conceit or just plain bigotry, but Dawkins taking a position on trans issues with zero research on the topic fits the pattern I have observed for quite some time.

[@SpaveFrostKing]

I hate to defend Dawkins, but I give him credit for refusing to talk about the Big Bang. I've seen him talk a bit about the origin of the universe; he clearly has a decent lay summary of the theory. But he takes the position that he should defer to the actual experts if someone's going to start trying to defend theism based on cosmology he doesn't thoroughly understand. Honestly, if he'd do the same on trans issues, he wouldn't be in this mess.

[@nw42]

I fondly remember one of his documentaries (“The Root of All Evil?”) in which he visited a megachurch, told the pastor it reminded him of a Nazi rally, and then acted surprised and victimized when the pastor yelled at him in the parking lot. Idiot? Troll? I don’t know, but to date Dawkins is the only person who’s ever made me feel sympathy for a megachurch.

[@gjhartist3685]

He wasn't mentioned by name but i couldn't help but think of Alex O'Connor being one of the Atheists being bought out in the marketplace of ideas. I still watch him sometimes, but he has become a lot more cordial with the religious right's talking heads.

[@NJ-wb1cz]

I never knew what's cosmic sceptic's name, and haven't seen anything from him for years, but immediately assumed it was him and was right The way he was proselytizing veganism always gave me weird vibes, and it felt like he won't stop there eventually. It was evident that he is willing to massage his rhetoric for the sake of his ideology and to convert non-believers in his cause, and that's not the vibe I am comfortable with

[@Electricalpenguin]

I dunno, I think Alex may just be interested in exploring the ideas of various controversial thinkers.

[@badpiggies988]

Armin Navabi too, he still supports LGBTQ rights but is now a big-time Israel shill; his website should be renamed “Hasbara Republic”. Someone must have had some serious blackmail materials on Armin, you’d think an ex-Muslim like himself would realize that those poor Palestinians are not too different from what they themselves once were.

[@mastahfrederique1147]

Has he? Every time I see him bring someone from the right on, he drills them. I’ve never noticed him be comfortable with their ideas, just not intimidated by them. I also don’t think Drew is intimidated. He's taking a different approach, and also this would have been a promotional tour for Dawkins, not a space for actual debate, so it makes sense that Drew would decline. But that doesn’t mean Alex is a softie for religious extremists just for creating the space for him to challenge their ideas in conversation.

[@jouzel8951]

Talking to people is one of the only ways to effect change in society, peacefully..... I disagree that Alex "has been bought". Is your only "proof" him being polite?

[@mastermachetier5594]

New atheism being anti-“woke” is a hell of a turn. It goes to show you that you need to be on your toes for all aspects and your bias.

[@tschorsch]

It's been split. Not all of it has gone down the anti trans pseudoscience rabbit hole.

[@marcomoreno6748]

You're about 10 years too late. Schism began long ago. The rightwing atheism quirtly merged with other manosphere/crypto/reich winger spheres. Where we are, more of a progressive, anti-superstitious, but friendly to average people both atheist and believers. People like Kristi Burke, Darante LaMar, Paulogia and on the academic scholarly side, Derek Lambert, etc. And of course a lot of the OG atheist channels and groups still fairly progressive like Dilahunty and friends.

[@marknieuweboer8099]

That's what scepticism means. Dawkins never was a sceptic.

[@oluwatayo.x]

idk if it was just me but it seemed there were a few jabs at alex o’connor in this? i might just be tripping though.

[@andreasvox8068]

Well, AO'C doesn't have a problem with being on a platform with Dawkins, Peterson or other right wingers. But afaict he doesn't buy into their bullshit.

[@antediluvianatheist5262]

@@andreasvox8068 Time will tell.

[@oluwatayo.x]

@@andreasvox8068 yeah i don’t think he buys into it either but i’m just saying seems like Drew has a problem with him platforming those people in the first place.

[@maestroquebrado2259]

​@@andreasvox8068 I don't remember seeing Alex ever actually confront Dawkins on his bigotry. I remember him asking Dawkins about the subject, but not directly calling him out on it, but I could be wrong about that

[@NathanaelNewton]

This video is full of thoughtfulness and kindness regarding a very polarizing subject. A breath of fresh air.

[@CorwinFound]

Trans guy here. I 100% agree with your comment. What just blows my mind is that my very _existence_ is a political statement and considered an election changing topic. It can be very surreal. I'll be listening to something like this and engaging in my mind logically and politically. And then suddenly I hear something really vicious and think, "Holy crap. They are talking about _me!?!"_ It can be very weird.

[@druzilla6442]

Once again you put your principles of what's right first❤️‍🔥

[@ballsymcfee9882]

This speaks volumes about not only your character as a person, but to your character as voice for the rest of us. It's comforting to know that you're resistant to being bought. Knowing that you would receive a fairly significant gain from siding with and platforming Dawkins, and then turning it down shows us through action just how genuine you are. I'm proud of you, Drew. I say that with all sincerity and honest feeling. Many of us, if put in the same circumstances, wouldn't have been quite so resilient to the temptation. I know if it was me, and had thought that it would provide a substantially better life for my family, I can't for sure say that I would've turned it down. I greatly admire your honesty and your commitment to our cause. You're doing good work here. Thank you.

[@NJ-wb1cz]

I never knew his views but somehow I never doubted him. If there's one thing I can be optimistic about, is that atheist community really seems to be healing, at least a part of it. I used to be a ultra logical edgelord myself and it's kinda comforting that I didn't grow into a void, but it seems a lot of us took the same path independently from one another

[@CorwinFound]

It explains the really deep trans content Drew has done in the last few months. As a part of the community I loved it and would describe it as some of the best evidence based trans content on KZbin, among both cis AND trans creators. But I'll admit that I wondered what provoked it. Now we know the answer. Drew preemptively created the justification and explanation for this decision, without letting out exactly why. It meant he could address the issues without muddying the water with debate specifically about Dawkins. Goddess I love Drew! Smart, empathetic, principled, and tactful.

[@CorwinFound]

​@@NJ-wb1czOver the last few months Drew has done some really deep dives into trans content. Coming from a terminally online trans guy, trust me when I tell you it's among the best trans content on KZbin - from either trans or cis creators. I _cannot_ recommend those videos highly enough. He brings receipts.

[@ratofthedumpster]

I'll be honest, I've avoided your content for a while when I shouldn't have. Turns out you've been taking down transphobia for a while, but all I ever saw was the word Skeptic. Bigotted atheists did that word so dirty back in the 2010s, I figured you'd be in the same camp as people like Dawkins. Couldn't have been more wrong.

[@GeneticallyModifiedSkeptic]

I appreciate this comment, and I understand your hesitancy given how loaded “skeptic” is. That fact is, I purposely brand my work that way to attract the people who need to hear it. “Skeptic” is an aesthetic of contrarianism and intellectual superiority, which ironically attracts shockingly credulous men. I get these guys in the door with a sprinkle of their favored aesthetic and then, you know, confront them with actual facts and logic or whatever.

[@StygianEmperor]

oh cool, hemant mentioned "a youtuber" had interviewed him about this, in the podcast he does with jessica bleumke yesterday

[@danielduvana]

Alex O’Connor should speak up about how he thinks about working with Dawkins, going on Chris Ws podcast and traveling in these stupid podcast circles honestly. He is smart enough to know better honestly

[@Rat-Baby]

Thank you so much for talking about this. It's a shame that so many people, who claim care about science, are ignoring science when it comes to minorities that they find distasteful.

[@vulpica]

Oh boy, I sure do love how me existing and being happy as a trans woman is controversial! :D

[@The_stellar_jay]

In Gandalf's voice: "Tell me, friend, when did Dawkins The Wise abandon reason for madness?"

[@mdug7224]

The thing about RD is that his view on gender and sex is similar to the view that there are only three colours: blue, red and yellow. In root, it is not wrong, but it has no vision of the real spectrum of colour varieties.

[@antediluvianatheist5262]

And idea that falls apart as fast as 'there are only 2 genders' upon poking.

[@CorwinFound]

In agreement. The term is called bimodal distribution. Regarding sex, the majority of people fall into two large lumps at either end. But there are people at various points between those lumps (called intersex in this example) and even in the bulges at the ends, male and female, quite a bit of diversity. I actually heard Dawkins in an interview say that sex is the last true biological binary. And when his host pointed out the existence of intersex folk, about 2%, more than natural redheads, Dawkins responded that they "didn't count." If a binary needs to "not count" even one data point, it isn't a binary. Which doesn't even get into gender, how mushy and variable that is, and how it relates (and doesn't relate) to sex. Btw, I'm a trans guy and honestly, it's all so incredibly, amazingly interesting. And it makes me sad that anyone, including Dawkins, would opt for a boring, two colour option when there is an entire rainbow out there to see and marvel over.

[@mdug7224]

@CorwinFound totally.👊

[@MaryamMaqdisi]

​@@CorwinFound that was beautifully said, thank you for sharing ❤

[@maxtermind5110]

It reminds me of what Lindsey Nicole says so many times “Nature doesn’t give sh!t to you straight!” Us humans are not the greatest at taking nuance and spectrums into account because we like to categorize things and set rules for things we see a pattern in. Nature has all kinds of phenomena that are exceptions and nuances that can’t fit neatly in our categories. Trans people and gender are just examples of this in our world.

[@lipemagos]

Yeah, problem with Dawkins and religious ppl is that they think Dawkins is The "atheist god" and If he says sh!t stuff we Just need to agree like they do with sky dad book

[@nighthiker]

Unfortunately, a lot of atheists and otherwise scientifically inclined people also see him as "the atheist god" - religion is just a symptom of a much broader behavioral issue that transcends religion and can manifest in any sort of ideological pursuit... :/

[@RR_theproahole]

Yeah they think Darwin is God the father and Dawkins is the son of God for atheists.

[@TheBlackSwordsManGat]

The shift has started. I recognize people like you, Aron Ra, Prof. Dave, Forrest V, ect

[@PreacherBoys]

Very thoughtful video - really appreciate you sharing this and being so open about your thought process.

[@LumpySpuds42]

Thank you. Trans folks from all yolks need need allies like y'all as the world seems to be turning more and more against us.

[@aubreyrose3283]

I'm a trans person. When I came out to my parents they told me they wished I'd come out as gay instead. That they could understand and accept me being gay but being trans was too much for them. So no parents don't prefer us to be trans than gay.

[@escafandrasemiotica]

Exactly. I think the only place on the planet where that happens is in the theocracy of Iran, for obvious reasons such as being homosexual is synonymous with the death penalty.

[@karlscher5170]

You identify as something. That's your choice. Other people adressing you in a way they see as fitting is their choice.

[@EclecticOmnivore]

Being old can be a reason why someone has bad ideas. That is not a good excuse for keeping those bad ideas. Even slave owners knew that they were wrong to own people even as they perpetuated their evils. I'm learning -- and unlearning -- things constantly. Many of them were really dumb things I thought were true that I just didn't think about till I did or was made correct by listening to others or by just looking. It's disturbing to me that someone who is as sharp and insightful as Richard Dawkins isn't correcting himself. He can. He has. Why not now? It is not his age alone even if that is a factor. He seemingly has recovered from his stroke, so that isn't it either. So, what is it? Wha wha why? In total, why continue to be wrong when being right can happen in an instant?

[@naomistarlight6178]

I wonder with people like him and JK Rowling, if it's the corrupting influence of fame and getting surrounded by people who suck up to you rather than challenge you. Both figures were more compassionate earlier in their careers. I think because they still had friends and family who challenged them to be good. I guess that's why being the "person behind the person" while a thankless job, is sometimes of great value to society.

[@antediluvianatheist5262]

He's no longer sharp. That's at least part of it. I work with elderly people of all levels of mental acuity. thinking, yes thinking about deep things takes energy. They don't have it to spare. But getting angry, that takes way less energy.

[@jam-trousers]

The far right and the griftosphere seem to be adept at grooming prominent people and taking them down their funnel.

[@CorwinFound]

A tangent off what you said. Maybe those enslavers knew. But they also worked _very_ hard to justify it logically. As has been the case since you could call science "science," it has been used to justify atrocities, including against women, people with disabilities, people of colour, queer folk, Jews and many more. Many pseudo sciences were created over the centuries for these purposes and eugenics is merely the most recent. And Dawkins should _know_ that. As an evolutionary biologist, a field of science with a pretty horrific history. Yet here, for trans people, he is choosing to forget that history and repeat it.

[@Divreon]

FA and GMS together, two people I respect the views of, in one video. Win.

[@psyok]

Glad I read through the comments to avoid an hour long video just to say "because he's an old biologist who refuses the concept of gender and that makes me big sad"

[@PhiloNico7]

And directly impacts the lives of other human beings. “I don’t like this because it hurt my feelings” is a strawman.

[@Marksman3434]

Hawkins basically sold out to the ragebait algorithm. There's no way to engage in good faith with anyone who went down and sticks to that path.

[@NoonyJW]

“You either die a hero…”

[@judahbateman9849]

So glad to see people are finally recognizing Chris Williamson for the far right, grifter, conspiracy theorist he's always been

[@Radistal]

Your integrity speaks volumes and that's why I love your channel. Respect!

[@BUSeixas11]

He has exactly zero integrity. Defending a position that’s already popular with his followers is the opposite of brave.

[@LeLennoshe]

@@BUSeixas11 you know that "integrity" doesn't mean braveness right ?

[@solacedagony1234]

@@BUSeixas11 Not even going to substantiate your position, just go to town on the ad hominem huh?

[@rainbowsorceress2082]

​@@BUSeixas11 Integrity: the quality of being honest and having strong moral principles; moral uprightness. Bravery: *courageous* behavior or character. Corageous: not deterred by danger or pain; brave. You're welcome

[@DrachenGothik666]

@@rainbowsorceress2082 Yup, That appears to define the qualities That GMS is showing to me quite well. You got them in one. @BUSeixas11 has no clue.

[@matthewgagnon9426]

Dawkins was a guy I looked up to when I was in middle school, but that was so long ago and I've thought he sucked for ages now. He really needs to just be left in the dustbin of history now.

[@hunter_lite]

Identity politics is caustic. Toward the end of their career most scholars and scientists are likely to focus on legacy than social issues, especially social construction of gender. A twenty something podcaster lecturing an 83 year old lauded scientist on what his agenda should be is seriously remiss. A Quixote like stance that doesn't measure up.

[@R-Tex.]

I love Richard Dawkins' ideam on athiesm. I abhor everything else about his. He is a bigoted far-right christian athiest at the core of his heart.

[@sjzara]

No he’s not. That’s why his position on trans issues is so upsetting.

[@antediluvianatheist5262]

@@sjzara Sorry, but you are what you do, and if he's doing things that far-right christain types are doing, then functionally, he's one of them.

[@DundG]

​​@@antediluvianatheist5262Flawed logic as not all actions define smth. Nazis invaded other countries, but not everyone who invades countries is a nazi. You need to show that he does things that are unique to far-right christians to call him one.

[@marknieuweboer8099]

The God Delusion falsely pretends that all proper christianity is far-right fundagelicalism. So his bigotry is unsurprising.

[@Zangelin]

​@@antediluvianatheist5262This is a extremely narrow view on things and domewhat bigoted.

[@HeatherfromtheUK]

I have not finished watching the video, but he has also advocated for 'population management' ( worried about phrasing), especially impacting disabled people. 🙄

[@TheAikenHead]

A lot of leftists/environmentalists like Rebecca Watson, PZ Myers, and Hemant Mehta want less people on the planet.

[@Geshode]

This kind of reminds me of how Arthur Conan Doyle started to believe in fairies towards the end of his life.

[@annag8755]

Thank you for speaking up about this! I love you guys

[@wattihrvolt-pn3pf]

Ah the 3 beacons of reason: brexiteers antivaccers and evangelical christians.

[@b4ttlemast0r]

Never really knew that guy. But it seems that way too many people just enjoy the idea that they're mentally superior and totally rational, without actually being rational and skeptical anymore.

[@johndemeritt3460]

I haven't had a chance to watch this yet, Drew, but I _like_ therapeutic grade skepticism! This is one of many my wife and I will enjoy later today! That said, please take no offense, but this video will come _after_ Ze Frank's latest!

[@pjaworek6793]

Yes, someone is finally blowing the lid on this anti-woke grifter. Do Sam Harris if possible. Thank you for this video. Whoa, the ending monolog is soo good, and powerful. "See we engage with our critics..." 😂 53:02

[@charlee_hotel]

The podcast _If Books Could Kill_ recently did an episode on Sad Horrid.

[@pjaworek6793]

​@@charlee_hotel Thanks! Holy, these guys are hilarious. Gonna check it out.

[@romanskokan7238]

Harris, who's discussed morality so much, is also an apologist for Israel's actions in the Gaza war. He may be a Jew himself, but he's too smart to be given a pass for not realizing it.

[@xabulba99]

as a trans person, thank you for making this video. i like to live under a rock and had no idea dawkins has gone towards dogma rather than rigorous skepticism

[@bensalemi7783]

50:40 I think you've managed to crystalize the sick feeling I've had in my stomach about the turn Alex O'Connor has taken over the past few years.

[@AntiExploited]

What exactly do you mean? 🤔 My huge problem with Alex is that he quit veganism with no clear explanation and no attempts to consult the best dietitians and doctors to help him deal with irritated bowl and stay a vegan. Which he undoubtedly could and should have, he's not exactly a person in need.

[@severalwolves]

It seems like a big portion of the r/atheist community started going down a weird alt.right-ish pipeline about a decade ago, and it was disappointing to see. I’m very appreciative of the figures who’ve maintained genuinely progressive values over the years, especially at the expense of personal gain.

[@CorwinFound]

Here's my take on the atheist to alt-right pipeline. Systemic issues that cause so many problems in our society, including organized religion, are _very_ difficult to go after, change, or improve. You can work decades at it and see no appreciable wins. Catholic Church? One of the most powerful, longest standing organizations on earth. Systemic racial injustice? Baked into the very founding of the US and many other countries. Wealth inequality, climate change, and general poverty? How does one even begin to hold the concept of capitalism accountable? But what if you can find an easy target to blame? One with little power, influence, numbers or wealth. That's a whole lot easier. You can get actual wins quite easily. In a nutshell, blame a minority that can't fight back. A perfect example are TERF's. Sure, centuries and millenia of systemic misogyny and the entirety of patriarchy are to blame for the woes of women. But that's a looooong row to hoe. Blaming it on trans people? A lot freaking easier even if it has the minor issue of not being the truth. And money. There is a lot of money to be made in getting white, cishet men angry. And it's a lot easier to get them fuming at "woke," whomever it happens to be today, than confronting nearly immovable systems without a face. And getting them angry at trans folk is not just easier but keeps them from being angry at billionaires, the true authors of their troubles.

[@monkeytime9851]

Thing is, atheism itself has no political slant. There is no reason to presume that an atheist will be on any particular side of the trans debates. Atheism only regards god belief. When atheism became less taboo and more accepted, it was natural that people on that redit would start talking about other issues, and splitting on them from you and from others.

[@ntw3002]

"That would look great on your CV, not so good on mine." - not a line coined by Dawkins, but famously used by him

[@dentoncrimescene]

The bulling only goes one way. I nearly spat out my drink.

[@CorwinFound]

Yeah, that was funny. In a horrible dark funny way.

[@carterrobison3245]

Not talking to someone because you disagree with their views is odd to me. Lets say Dawkins is wrong about this subject, I feel like there are better ways of bringing this to peoples attention than to insinuate his poor character

[@morgothable]

I remember the time when i liked Dawkins. He was one of the people who helped me become strongly Atheist, which is also part of why i ended up really thinking about philosophy. He went on to slowly become irrelevant and now he seems to be fighting for relevance by joining up with several groups of pure insanity. On one hand, i am happy that he was there when i began walking down this path, on the other i wish he would allow himself to become a part of history. He didn't have the ability to stay interesting, in the same way that someone like Hitchens could.

[@mr.le-capibar]

Man, I feel so sad to see a man that once was a serious scientist with valuable and beautiful views on science and its role on our understansing this curious and complex reallity... And now, he is just a bigot. His case is a tragedy indeed. He is now fully into everything he worked towards to destroy. What a fucking shame 😢

[@chikkipop]

*"And now, he is just a bigot."* Examples?

[@solacedagony1234]

@@chikkipop Still waiting for you to watch the video.

[@donnievance1942]

@@chikkipop Whoever is paying you to troll needs to find somebody with a little more mental agility.

[@antediluvianatheist5262]

@@chikkipop Examples are supplied with receipts in the video.

[@jam-trousers]

@@chikkipop actually ever since he tried to promote the idea of “brights” I’ve thought he was vulnerable to the kind of discourse which has now led him up grifter bigot alley. Modern social media skills don’t come easily to venerable scientist types it seems.

[@nlavigne92292]

It's sad to see Dawkins go down this road. Dawkins even said the "trans delusion" during a recent interview with Alex Oconer. I do wish that Dawkins would get more pushback.

[@DrachenGothik666]

Do you mean _"delusion"?_ Delusion means "false thought" & makes more sense in the context you wrote. Dilution means to "water down" & doesn't make sense in the context of your sentence. #boneappletea Cheers!

[@keldoe1351]

Very glad to see you criticizing him. It’s unfortunate to see a certain other prominent atheist creator actively working with grifters like Dawkins and Jordan Peterson