Atari's Year-One CX-10 Joystick vs. the Atari CX-40 | Why Was it Redesigned?

[@VolJoe]

Great video, detail and background. We went through so many of those early joysticks as they struggled through wear and tear.

[@chriscorsello]

I noticed the difference in these joysticks as a kid in 1981, but didn't realize they were different models. I had the 4 switch wood grain 2600 and my friend two blocks over in the neighborhood had already had his Atari for a couple of years and it was a 6 switch. (Didn't know the difference between the sixers in those days, but probably was a heavy sixer now knowing the past few years about the CX-10) I knew they had their Atari for a couple of years already and thought the difference in play in the joystick was simply because it was older and "worn out." I figured all the joysticks would eventually get all "loose" after years of use. Not bad reasoning for a 10 years old with his first game system. Later, I also took apart and repaired joysticks as a kid. Was first inspired by the Atari Age article that showed how to make a "left handed" joystick. Even though I wasn't left handed, I thought it was really cool to understand how it worked and to be able to alter it. I remember mixing a joystick up ahead of time and handing it to my friends little brother to play Combat against and then teased him for being so bad. He of course quickly figured out the joystick was all mixed up but we got a couple of laughs from our other friends and when he tried to prove it to them that the joystick was wonky we just teased him more.... "Yea right, the joystick isn''t working, that old excuse." We all knew. We also had fun switching the wires between the button and up position for a "new challenge" playing Space Invaders, which was actually pretty cool. Good times.

[@lorensims4846]

Hey GenX! I'm a late Boomer and I had four CX-40s for my Atari 800 because it had four joystick ports. A lot of software assumed you had a joystick attached because it was considered easier to use than the keyboard, almost a precursor to the mouse. That CX-10 looks to be overbuilt, especially when the CX-40 actually works better. During the take-apart, I was reminded of how a take-apart of my Atari 800 would look next to a take-apart of the Atari 800XL, except in that case, the original Atari 800 had more features and was just better built. The CX-40 was always plenty of controller for me, well, and a couple of pairs of paddle controllers and my trackball controller.

[@DryPaperHammerBro]

Nah, you're an early GenXer ;)

[@lorensims4846]

@@DryPaperHammerBro I'm a Sputnik baby, born eight months before the Soviets won the early space race. The early boomers played cowboys and Indians. We played astronauts and secret agents.

[@BandoidView]

Great stuff! Reminds me of Steven Balmer talking about how software developers should get compensated. He pointed that if a developer creates software that can do the same thing as a competitor but using many fewer lines of code , more efficient developer should not get paid less because he spent less time working than the competitor's developer. In this case it's hardware that's being discussed but it's a great example of how things can be over-engineered or reengineered to be more efficient, cost effective, and contribute to a higher profit margin. Work smarter, not harder!

[@matthewbarry4464]

I clearly remember trying to fix my cx-10 joysticks by using strips of aluminum foil in-between the plate and the circuit board. I'm guessing there was probably a better way to fix them.

[@ctbinary42]

Nice history lesson any technological detective work! To tell the truth I never realized there were any different controllers. Thanks a bunch, Jon!

[@EugenioAngueira]

Really cool to see the differences between these two joysticks! Thanks for opening both to compare them.

[@originalfred66]

I definitely remember taking apart the CX-10 joysticks and replacing broken springs. We eventually switched to the CX-40, which did have a tighter feel.

[@RCfromtheNYC]

Ah, the CX-40...my mortal enemy of my youth. I broke the internal plastic so much playing Activision's Decathlon. I learned at a young age the value of Krazy Glue and duct tape, and repaired my joystick nearling every few weeks. Ironically, the circuit board was never damaged. 🕹️

[@fnjesusfreak]

"Perfection is achieved not when there is nothing left to add, but when there is nothing left to remove"

[@jeremiahthomas8140]

Another informative video. I do not think I have actually ever seen the inside of a CX-10 before now.

[@lancelange9377]

I still have my 2 CX-40's and paddle controllers that I got with my original Atari. All of them still work flawlessly. The CX-40''s, paddle controllers and the console!

[@CP200S]

Beautiful! I own a weird bootleg cx-40 clone with huge linear spring contacts mounted directly on internal controller towers. Works quite well, impressively.

[@d.aardent9382]

I had a Wico (i think the Co. was), a big chunky red and white joystick that had fire button at top of stick as well as the base. It was heavy, but it was very wellmade and operated well. I usually sat it down on floor or table when i used it. It was huge compared to the original equipment joystick. They made a arcade style wide joystick base with multiple buttons i think also, i always wanted to get that other one but never did.

[@olafbuddenberg4787]

And there I was thinking that all Atari joysticks from that era were created equal. But turns out some were more equal than others. Thanks for this informative video! :)

[@mfeldsher]

Great video. I never would have thought that the newer controller is actually made better. It’s cool to see the evolution of the controller. I still think it’s the best controller / Joystick ever created

[@VEGANVANIA]

I wish I were naïve enough to imagine that the winter of 2023 to 2024 would be forever remembered as the apex of Atari 2600 nostalgia... but it'll probably happen again five years from now.

[@zimtage1744]

How many people had at least one CX40 without the boot?

[@SatoshiMatrix1]

Those metal contact points on the original model CX-10 are called leaf switches. Atari's arcade cabinets used very similar mechanisms. I don't buy at all that Atari simplified the design to those dome bent metal with tape on top because consumers were complaining. It absolutely has to do with cutting costs. Unfortunetely the dome bent metal design would also pleague the 8-bits, the 5200's trakball and other trakballs Atari made, and even the 7800 Pro Line controller. I hate the design. Give me leaf switches or microswitches any day over the cost-reduced design Atari went with. Ugh.

[@Chris.Wiley.]

I loved my CX-10 sticks that came with my console in 1978. At some point I had to buy a replacement and ended up with a CX-40 and I never liked the feel of it. The springs in the original CX-10 resulted in a larger range of motion that I found more comfortable.

[@GenXGrownUp]

That makes sense. I expect most users would feel more fondly about the CX-10s if they'd spent more time with them at the outset. It's what's you're used to, I expect.

[@MarquisDeSang]

I can't wait to get my hands on the one that comes with the Atari 400 mini witht that ring of button.

[@erickent3557]

Super cool episode! Anecdotal, I know, but the orangey CX-40 button felt more "correct" seeing it side-by-side with the CX-10 red? Or truly that button, and my memory, are faded...

[@emilygrae]

I'm with you, the cx-40 orange just looks right.

[@Eth3realwarrior]

That's awesome, glad to see the difference in the Hyperkin Trooper controller that uses a more common pivot and membrane pad. It works great for emulation, especially if it's lubed using Shinetsu silicone grease. The same grease that you would use to maintain Arcade levers like a Sanwa JLF.

[@treyslay753]

We use that Shinetsu grease at my work for lubricating some of the equipment.

[@kins749]

I never knew there were two type, must go and check mine now!

[@lurkerrekrul]

I don't really remember what using a CX10 was like, but I do remember taking them apart, and the ones that came with my grandparents' Sears branded console were slightly different inside. The plate that the springs pushed on was white, same as the inner stick in the CX40, and the circuit board had dome switches like the CX40. The main downside to the CX40, from a user's point of view is that eventually the ring around the white, inner stick is going to break. Every time you push the stick in any direction, the ring flexes, and inevitably, it will will wear out. Once it cracks, trying to get the stick to register in that direction becomes a royal pain in the butt. Unfortunately, there's no fix, other than replacing the stick. And since there were no replacement parts availble back then, it meant people had to buy a new joystick, which I suppose was considered a plus for Atari. Another problem I had with more than one CX40 was that sometimes the peg that supports the stick would snap off. And since the ABS plastic that the cases were made out of is immune to all common forms of glue, they were also impossible to repair. I've heard that you can buy special ABS glue at hobby shops, but I don't know if even that would hold. I know that superglue and epoxy didn't/ And when repositioning the dome switches, it should be mentioned that you'll need to clean the glue residue from the sticky tape off them, otherwise getting them positioned correctly is a nightmare. They stick to EVERYTHING, your fingers, any tool you touch them with, etc. Want to nudge it just a hair to the left? Now it's stuck to the tip of your screwdriver.. One final cool thing you can do with either joystick, is swap the wires around to make it left-handed.

[@GenXGrownUp]

These days, all problems my 3D printer can fix! 😁

[@jeremiahthomas8140]

Atari did sell joystick repair kits, but they probably did not come out until 1982 or so.

[@ultimatemaitai]

That is really helpful and interesting to learn more about the differences.

[@waltersilver8085]

There are also CX-10’s with brown santo boards with the same triangular switches as the CX-40. I prefer the Atari board with the rectangular switches. I like playing with that version of the CX-10 they seem to be more durable of the two boards.

[@AG7SM]

Until I watched this video, I had forgotten how much I initially hated those joysticks when the VCS originally came out. The ones in the stores all seemed to suck. But when my friend got one, they seemed fine. I had no idea that there was a redesign like this.

[@robintst]

I expected the opposite, that the CX-10 being more robust internally would mean it was higher quality and felt better to use, but I guess a joystick and one button really were better off for the most part being less complicated to put together.

[@billmankin6204]

I had a heavy sixer, and sadly wore out both of my original CX-10s. Not that I was smart enough at that age to preserve that hardware for its collectable value. I did however, end up parting them out. Way back before it was popular to make arcade controllers, I cannibalized the cables and connectors to make arcade button controllers to be able to play games like Defender and Asteroids. It was a huge hit at parties even made a few for friends... if they provided me a 9-pin cable.

[@urbanknish]

I'm a product designer and to my eyes, the CX-10 appears to be superior to the CX-40. This is exactly why product testing is so important! Every GenXGrownup knows very well how awesome the CX-40 is. :) (PS A while back I bought some boards from a guy on ebay that are new and redesigned. I think his handle was Commodore Kaz. It looks like there are a lot of sellers offering a copy-cat design of it.

[@ArcadeFan77]

There is also a CX-10 version with a Santo 88 board, on rounded plates, similar to those in the presented CX-40. I have this version. It comes from Atari Heavy Sixer PAL version.

[@RyanConway602]

For those of you who like me couldnt play Atari because i'm left handed, it only took me over 45 years to realise that all you have to do is unscrew the bottom, change the pins with your fingers ( doesn't matter which model ) and sorted ! Takes 5 minutes. Look online, it's so simple. Why they never put an L-R switch on there is beyond me.

[@GenXGrownUp]

I regularly did that mod for a neighbor back in the 80s. He thought I was a genius - I knew it was drop-dead easy!

[@RyanConway602]

@@GenXGrownUp I wish someone had told me, lol !

[@PeBoVision]

I like the stiffness and longer throw of the earlier rendition, and buy, what I refer to as, the "Heavy Sixer" joystick whenever one crosses my path at a reasonable price. Getting things evened out as far as how far to need to push in any direction is all in making sure the springs are the same age. I find the heavy-sixer joystick shaft is less prone to snapping as the newer version (and both are more durable than chinese USB knockoffs, which rarely last me more than a couple hours. (as my dad used to say, you only get what you pay for...so I guess $5 an hour is what you pay for in China) As far as DB9 joysticks though...this layout (one stick/one red button) is the only joystick I can play games with. Games that require more buttons I'll switch to keyboard control. Directional movement just feels more natural holding an actual stick in my right hand while my left thumb sits at the ready on the button. (The Heavy Sixer is also less prone to accidental firing, since you have to actually press it with a bit of force.) I just bought the new CXStick, based on your recommendation, so we'll see how that one is when it arrives.

[@jackmcslay]

How the CX-10 was designed would be an interesting thing to know if the engineers are still around, I suspect they created that spring damping system as a means to reduce the amount of force on the contacts, as those seemed fairly fragile. But then they inadvertedly laid the foundation for controllers we still have today with the CX40, the Xbox 1 even uses the same type of domes attached directly to the controller board.

[@Earths1stgamer]

Wow how ironic i just got my 1st CX10 Hex disk joystick its has Atari disk top i had to buy a 7800 system just to get this joystick i have no idea why it was with a 7800 but i contacted a seller on ebay that was selling a Sears Hex joystick for $250 i asked what he thought about the Atari Hex disk CX10 and he said $200-300 so thats unreal i think im going to put it in a display case so it stays clean good work on this video i love busting things open.

[@DavpaCoX]

I had a first gen Sears Telegames system. The joysticks were CX-10s. Mine lasted most of the life of my ownership (gave it away in 1990). I replaced the springs with stiffer springs. I'm use to the CX-10s and I actually dislike the CX-40s.

[@kupakai5]

I remember taking apart my CX-10 to push up the metal contacts every so often. I did get a replacement CX-40 at some point, but preferred the feel of the CX-10. Maybe I was just us d to it

[@GenXGrownUp]

I expect you were. If that was the one you knew best, the CX-40 probably felt weird! 😀

[@hardkoregamer1981]

Thanks as always Jon 👍💯

[@GenXGrownUp]

My pleasure!

[@NotMuchHere]

yeah, i got really good at glueing the internal shaft/button pusher back together. That ring would bust all the time

[@Mark-Wester]

I have a lot of Atari CX40 joysticks.

[@d.aardent9382]

I have a TeleGames system and i think it must be a 1977 release because the joysticks had the little metal icon at the top and dont recall there being "TOP" printed on the ring. Idk, i never felt like they were a difficulty to use, i never had any problem with them other than i spilled Pepsi onto one and had to clean it up and i did take apart the joysticks to clean the contacts and something else i cant recall but i think its the only time i ever had an issue with them. Nothing ever broke inside. I took my cousin's joysticks apart when i went to visit them one summer and they mentioned having a joystick that didnt work right, so i did like i did with mine and i cleaned them and moved something around and they worked fine afterwards. Now im curious how the next upgraded cx 40 joysticks response feel was like. Idk if ya can even get them anymore. I just got used to the way my cx 10 felt, i mean they are stiff kinda, but they aiways return to center and response is great, never lags.

[@VEGANVANIA]

Ah, but today you can buy a CX40+, not a CX10+... how long are we going to have to wait for Atari to cater to nostalgia for the YEAR ONE Atari 2600 experience? ;-)

[@billschlafly4107]

The CX-10 was designed by a guy who knew a guy who owned a spring factory.

[@GenXGrownUp]

Hahaha! This comment nominated for funniest comment of the day. 😁

[@e815usa]

I'd like to see you take apart that CX-40 joystick that came with the 2600 Plus to see if anything was changed or updated!

[@GenXGrownUp]

Your wish is my command. kzbin.infot2t_m5k_VDo

[@e815usa]

@GenXGrownUp yes I saw and I loved it! I thanked you in that chat for taking my suggestion

[@GenXGrownUp]

@@e815usa Oh, good! wanted to make sure you saw it. 😀

[@e815usa]

@@GenXGrownUp I did and I'll tell you that I was so surprised at the differences between all 3. I still like the original CX-40. It was so easy for me to get parts and fix them myself.

[@sa3270]

I'm not sure if I ever held a CX-10 in person. If I did, it was probably only in a department store.

[@tomevil6]

Very interesting and enjoyable!

[@GenXGrownUp]

Glad you enjoyed it!

[@10shu]

My atari came With cx40 i used to Take them appart and move the wire position to do left handed joysticks with the buttons the other side

[@Xiy114]

It seems like the cx10 was maybe more built like a tank, or a prototype.

[@ElderKai555]

Interesting stuff

[@mrtesticlease4638]

i prefer cx10. though cx40 is technically more responsive, cx10 is more comfortable and less stiff

[@therealknapster]

Mine had a wire attached to connect to console ! & they were terrible the reason for Kempston competition pro

[@GenXGrownUp]

The Kempston also had a wire to connect it to the console. 😶

[@OldMusicFan83]

We could not afford an Atari. Had to use my friends Ataris.

[@wumpusthehunted2628]

Now compare them to a Waco stick. They used switchs that looked more like rely reed switches. Felt like arcade sticks (another company basically boxed up a "real" arcade stick and massive box for 3-4 times as much. Not so worth it) and were worth it.

[@GenXGrownUp]

Wico?

[@wumpusthehunted2628]

It was fairly popular with 400/800/later 8bit computer users. I don't think I ever saw one connected to a 2600. No idea if they were used on C64 or not (compatible with cx40). Googling Wico atari joystick seemed to get the right hits. Basically a higher quality joystick with better control and much less likely to break.

[@GenXGrownUp]

@@wumpusthehunted2628 Sure. I know what Wico is, I was verifying if that's what you meant, or if there was another brand I'd never heard of called, "Waco."

[@bland9876]

It looks like it would have been so easy to just add another button to it one button is way not enough.

[@GenXGrownUp]

😆 If only the designer could have seen the future! It was more than enough for the initial vision. Who'd have ever imagined what would become of this little machine!

[@bland9876]

@@GenXGrownUp lots of arcades have more than 1 buttons and also lots of games treat up as a second buttons so when emulating that's what I end up mapping to a second button.

[@jeremiahthomas8140]

​@@bland9876In 1976 when the 2600 was designed, there were probably not a lot of people suggesting a second button was needed.

[@bland9876]

@@jeremiahthomas8140 considering how many arcade games have a second button I'm shocked no one thought that was a good idea

[@samperkins5606]

Where do you get the putty stuff from.

[@GenXGrownUp]

amz.run/8n1K

[@NotMuchHere]

ah yes ... 4 nubbins on the cx10 ... chandler bing would be so proud

[@johnathanstevens8436]

CX-10 looks more like an arcade stick

[@catsaregovernmentspies]

Now I have to go to my storage unit to dig out my Atari stuff and see which joysticks I have. 😂

[@McLovin_2007]

I've never used the one with the springs in it. But the one without springs is stiff and not very pleasing to use. I have that one, but I prefer the one's I got with the Flashback 9 console because they have membranes under the joystick, and it's very easy to use. There is something I love about using it. I may use a Genesis controller for certain games because the D-pad is best for platformers like Pitfall. But I love using the joystick for shooters like Juno First and Beamrider.

[@Frank_D]

Thanks for opening up the controllers for us. This was a fascinating look at the tech they used! 🙂

[@GenXGrownUp]

Glad you enjoyed it!

[@emilygrae]

This was great, I've never seen a cx-10 internals before. One Christmas I asked for a couple new cx-40's because mine were so bad off. What I got was two repair kits LOL Only difficult thing about it at all was finding a screwdriver in the house that was long enough and thin enough to get that far into the base to actually reach the screws!

[@jasongillson6563]

I never had a 2600. I went from the Commodore Vic 20 to the Atari 7800 so I missed out on the 2600 joystick which I'm kind of okay with because being a left-hander, the button was on the wrong side and it made it awkward to hold the joystick properly. I had tons of 2600 games that I would play on my 7800 and the feel of the 7800 joystick was better

[@RedRanger2001]

Gen Y people like me are possibly only familiar with the CX-40, and the later CX-24 that came with the 7800.

[@lydiakossow]

Really enjoyed this video. Thanks! Although I love both styles of Atari branded joysticks, I find that I "really" love the feel and responsiveness of my vintage Wico "The Boss" joystick, not the bat handled one. Thanks again! 🙂

[@jayme69]

Great video Jon. I spent many an hour fixing CX40s back in the day too :-) Keep up the awesome work!

[@treyslay753]

I wish they would've used a better quality shaft for the CX-40. The plastic is a little thin and cheap. They break too easily in my opinion. Another issue is the ring cracking. I remember some of my childhood friends had controllers with the ring snapped off. This caused the rubber boot to fall off as well. Still a true classic, and the DB9 pinout was almost universal with early consoles & computers.

[@GenXGrownUp]

What's awesome is, these days you can just 3D print a stronger replacement!

[@MobiBit645]

Sadly one of the best Atari controls

[@Ariannus]

Thanks for the video. I don't think I've ever used a CX-10, didn't even realize that there had been revisions of the controller. It's interesting to see the evolution.

[@GenXGrownUp]

Thanks for watching!