George Eliot: A scandalous life 6/6

[@sylvain123]

I wish the BBC would release this documentary on DVD. It's brilliant and deserves to be widely seen. Thankyou for sharing this💐

[@27rattle]

George Eliot was a genius. Thank you for uploading this, it was a fascinating documentary.

[@melaniemetcalfe3354]

Fantastic documentary. I watched , Daniel Deronda, Mill on the Floss, Middlemarch, and Adam Bede, all beautiful classics .

[@annabodhi38]

This was wonderful... Thank you so much for all of your hard work. It is much appreciated.

[@moonstruckfaye]

Thanks a lot for sharing! Now after I've finished the biography of Charlotte Bronte, I realise that a good biography of George Eliot has to come next ; ) I love her books and her way of writing. My sister hates it and I really can't understand that. She wrote so brilliantly and truthfull about life and death and everything in between. All her books I've read yet have made my cry for some reason...

[@poppv]

Thank you for posting! This a fantastic documentary.

[@hannahoron9740]

Beautifully tragic ... tragically beautiful! Thank you for sharing! ... Now I must go and start reading her work ...

[@Sharkwell]

I have enjoyed this very much and now am about to reread all my George Eliot :o) HARRIET WALTER'S PERFORMANCE IS STUNNING, she IS Mary Anne Evans!! Thank you for sharing it here - this way advertising both, the gorgeous documentary/film and the work of an amazing authoress! - Nic in Berlin

[@tanyasealark]

This was wonderful. Thank you. Throughly enjoyed it.

[@Sunflower-nx5en]

So happy that she and Lewis had such a deep and beautiful love together....

[@weeknightingale]

Thanks for posting this! Fascinating life! Thank you! ƙarolyn

[@blessOTMA]

Terrific program. Thank you for posting it.

[@Poemsapennyeach]

Congrats to Steve Attridge and Mary Downs. I loved the 'Greek' chorus.

[@sujatayogi3400]

Beautiful documentary 👌🏻👌🏻👌🏻💕💕

[@williamparker1085]

this is very informative and enjoyable to watch

[@alexapenn6399]

Very much enjoyed this doc. DIdn't know much about Marian at all - thanks so much :}

[@Robert.Stole.the.Television]

Well, that was... dreary. Much respect to this wonderful author.

[@ksotikoula]

You are welcome! I am glad that you liked it. I was wondering whether there were people out there that were interested in George Eliot. But it was a good documentary and I thought to upload it anyway. I have not read Romola :( yet :) .

[@ksotikoula]

About expression of feelings you should read "Villette" by Charlotte Bronte. A thousand different ways and shades to say I am sorry, I am lonely, I am depressed, I am alienated. Marian admired deeply that book.

[@graveyardghost2603]

Agreed! "Villette" is great I admire Charlotte Bronte as much as George Eliot. Mary Shelley as well. All strong intellectual women who paid a price for being brave enough to be their authentic selves.

[@BurnSheDevil]

In my humble opinion, I think that suffering allow us to dig very deep into ourselves, and there one can find a great deal of materal for creation.

[@CBJAMPA]

Thanks for posting!

[@beadsandbraids]

This was a featurette on my DVD of Silas Marner, from Netflix. Its excellent & recommend people spend the time viewing it. It gives you much insight when you view her movies, or read the books.

[@goodstorylover]

Hi, I certainly am sorry to have missed your interesting discussion on men characters in CB and JA novels. I love to read their books, as I enjoy books by GE. Anyway, thanks very much for uploading, I watched with real interest and nearly came late to work :o)

[@goodstorylover]

Thanks, I have posted one response to your comment already, but cannot see it anywhere. Anyway, I am going to watch the Bronte documentary now, your discussion have even made me to read Shirley again to remember interesting Mr. Moore again:o) Thanks for your job.

[@moonstruckfaye]

I've read the one by Elisabeth Gaskell and I think it was quite good, because many letters of Charlotte were included etc. I think she was a bit too strict with herself and very depressive, but how could it have been otherwise, being chronical ill and see all your siblings die. But I think her strenght is admireable and I like to read her books. George Eliot can be very emotional too I think. Especially The mill on the floss moved me very much. If you havn't read it yet, do so soon! ; D

[@ΖυγούρηΧαρά]

Excellent

[@ksotikoula]

Thank you for rewarding me with your comment! :)

[@moonstruckfaye]

Well, I agree on the things you said about Charlotte's repression being a great force to enable her to write like that, but I think imagination still plays a big role in her novels, especially concerning the mysterious things and the love/romance/relationship matters and all the imagery she uses. And yes her books are nonetheless very personal and therefore true and realistic, which involves the reader very much. But I can see that truth also in Eliot's work, in another form, but still dominant.

[@ksotikoula]

give her famous answer "I can be on my guard against my enemies but God deliver me from my friends". I guess Lewes after Eliot changed his mind about women or else he would not be so supportive to her. I also know him to have said something like: I love the woman who can write but does not. He also teased Charlotte in a dinner that "there should be some sympathy" between them "as they both have written naughty books". Lol! It made Charlotte angry because she thought him really coarse.

[@tully2shoes]

Quite interesting...thank you for sharing.

[@ksotikoula]

Many people have mentioned "Romola" and I have not read it. It will sure find a place in my reading list. I watched your video :). I would never have thought that those two would match. But then again in my favorites you will find a humorous video called "Jane Eyre - Crazy", where Charlotte Bronte and Britney Spears meet and the result is quite funny!

[@ksotikoula]

@maham21jan Yes, and German too, if I remember correctly. She knew Latin and Ancient Greek, so I wouldn't be surprised. She was very educated.

[@zharapatterson]

Unpopular opinion, I really like the gossips, they're so awesome and funny.

[@moonstruckfaye]

Yeah I believe you're right there. But it's so sad that her joy and happiness only lasted so briefly...

[@ksotikoula]

@stedetforaske Middlemarch is a slow but eventually a very rewarding reading. I agree about suffering and genius. The Brontes who are my favorites are a perfect example of that. Perhaps geniuses tend to be less well adapted to the norm (some would say mediocrity).

[@ksotikoula]

Which Charlotte Bronte biography you have read? Did you like her as a person? Maybe we can discuss it through messages. I believe George Eliot was equally fascinating and has some great sagacious lines in her novels, but emotionally she never moved me the way Charlotte did. Of course I have to read some more of her work to fully appreciate her.

[@bahaloola]

Does anyone know what are the sources they're using when quoting her? Esp the scenes where it's a mock interview setup. Some of them are found in the Journals of George Eliot but a lot of them I can't place.

[@lexigrimhaive]

What does the “silver crossing palms” part mean?

[@Poemsapennyeach]

Bribery.

[@moonstruckfaye]

Mhm, ok I think I can partly agree on that. You've expressed that very well about Lucy's behaviour ; ). I liked Shirley for the characters presented there, but I didn' t like how the women always foregave the men and how Shirley was "tamned" in the end. I think she wanted to write a happy ending, because her sisters had just died. It's strange how emancipated GE and CB wrote in some aspects and in others you could tell how much they were influenced by the rejection from men like father, brother

[@ksotikoula]

I never had doubt for these two. Charlotte once had told Mrs Gaskell that she would be afraid to love with all the strength of her soul because she felt the feeling would not be reciprocated. Now she had the opposite situation. She had to match his love. So when you put together a passionate affectionate woman & a passionately loving tender man the chances are quite good. And Charlotte was never repulsed physically to Nicholls as she did to Taylor. Fame&success don't keep you warm at night :).

[@ksotikoula]

I don't think that there are many people who read comments (or actually watch documentaries about past famous authors) but if they do I believe they must share an interest and they are welcome to join the conversation or just follow it or leave it altogether :)

[@moonstruckfaye]

Well, I know what you mean, but many annotations by the editor were added, so I am in no doubt about the points you've mentioned. What I like about the biography, is that Gaskell often let's Charlotte speak for herself including many of her letters, so I think it's well done nonetheless. But I think I will read another to see a different point of view. Could you recommend one? Well Jane Eyre is very intense indeed, but I think this is due to her using much more her imagination than Eliot,

[@moonstruckfaye]

And the lacking mother had to be replaced by her father or her aunt (but neither of them was very emotional, showing emotion and talking about it I mean). And very soon she had to be the mother of her younger siblings.That N. convinced her to marry him by showing his affection (wasn't he all upset and nearly began to cry when he proposed to her?) and proving his love for her, seems to be very likely. Also the fact how suprised she appears that he has made her that happy is an indication for it.

[@sullyb23511]

Is the dialog of the nay-saying gossip mongers drawn from historical record?

[@moonstruckfaye]

because she was quite young when she wrote it and had less life experience and therefore wrote kind of more romantic (not implying that this is better or worse than Eliot)). Eliot was already "married" when she began to write novels, so I think that's the difference somehow. I hope I've expressed well what I meant to say ; D It's interesting that Lewes knew Charlotte and was one of her friends before he met G.E, don't you think so? How interesting would that have been if they had met each other!

[@moonstruckfaye]

I like it somehow to read about ppl who feel like me, but act differently. At least I know I wouldn't fall for Rochester. I enjoyed their conversations in the book, but he was just not my taste. I think what I like most about books in general (and which appears in both GE's and CB's works) is the fact, that the writer is able to express/describe a feeling, a thought, a scenery which you yourself just imagined like that. Like: I was just thinking/feeling the same, how well she expressed it! : )

[@ksotikoula]

Yes it was really a shame that Victorian England (which in reality was a huge secret bed) was so hypocritical as to blame solely Marian as if they were the really pure ones. However I think Charlotte would have been intrigued to meet Marian, not only as a specimen of a fallen woman but also because she liked clever people. She never truly disliked Lewes either despite their argument.

[@ksotikoula]

I can imagine & certainly would do it. After so many deaths & searching love from two men who could not give it, but moreover after so much loneliness the warmth of true love was quite inviting. Charlotte told to a friend that she didn't like to let love get lost & that Nicholl's offer was to good to be rejected by such a lonely person as she was. After all she concluded she could make a simple man happy & she stressed that to be the first object of affection with anybody is very important.

[@alexapenn6399]

needing another person is so deep, she needed to find someone - nothing to do with George - except that he left such an emptiness. . . it is very hard to live with emptiness. . .

[@ksotikoula]

I am not sure whether Charlotte would be too strict with herself to live a forbidden love. She was never really tempted. Heger did not love her like Lewes did Marian. You may deduce that from Jane Eyre but for me the most difficult part of this book is to claim that Jane is a moral example. After all we don't know what would she do the second time had Bertha still been alive. For me CB had a more modern view of marriage as a companionship between equals.Rochester's marriage was never that thing.

[@moonstruckfaye]

I realised, that there's another similarity between Charlotte an Marian - at least for me: When I read their books I never really agree with most of the heroines actions or their beliefs and their strict way of following the rules they have set for themselves (moral guidelines I mean), BUT I still sympathize a lot with them and admire them for their strength, even if their behaviour seems to make them unhappy and I myself would have acted differently. What do you think about that?

[@BurnSheDevil]

I watched a Brontë sisters documentary just before this one and it's stricking how tragic the lives of these authors were .

[@kevaughncampbell7343]

BurnSheDevil yes agreed

[@ksotikoula]

She always seems to say "Well if this is what you see in me then this I will become to you". She is so stubborn she could let others blame her and never confront them, having the secret satisfaction that if you choose to believe them then it is your fault and you don't deserve to really know her.

[@ksotikoula]

Dorothea and Maggie are Marian's only heroines that I remember. I would definitely not be Dorothea. And Maggie would be better either elope for good or leave the company of that gentleman. For Jane Eyre I don't know. I am not sure whether I would be brave enough to love and claim a Mr Rochester. And I am afraid that if I did, I would have stayed with him. But I like JE so much and have spent so much time being her in that book that I can not be objective. I generally approve of her actions.

[@ksotikoula]

The 2nd part of your answer came after mine :). Eliot did not have the urge of the unrequited needs that Charlotte had when she wrote. I really would like them to have met although no one would take a respectable lady like Charlotte to visit a "fallen woman" like Eliot. Smith Charlotte's publisher never ever took his wife to meet Marian. Lewes was more of a foe than friend to Charlotte. In judging negatively Shirley in an article he said that women can not reach intellectually men which made her

[@ksotikoula]

She may have lived another 7 years of loneliness&bitterness, witnessing the death of her father too.But to tell you the truth I believe Nicholls was one of the best things that happened to her.Unconditional, true passionate love was what Charlotte called "the most precious gem life has to offer" & he gave it freely. Nothing nor even fame can substitute that, let alone that Nicholls surely justified in her eyes the male sex showing to her that there are constant loving men out there.

[@moonstruckfaye]

He only always said what he thought and was straight foreward somehow. And I think Charlotte was mainly offended, because he revealled with the text her sex and she wanted to be judged equally to male writers. And he made her suspect with him mentioning they had written "naughty books" that people could think of her to promote immorality in some way, if they considered her books to be naughty. It's a shame that George Eliot was rejected by so many people for such a silly reason!

[@ksotikoula]

Ha,ha! That's one reason I like C. Bronte. My taste in men is really more sedate than hers.We would never really fight over a guy. Lol! Oak from "Far from the madding crowd"or Adam from "East of Eden" are more close to my real taste in men,but thanks to Charlotte I can now better understand power related relationships & I can see what is sexy about it. And then if we are to fantasize why not be as wild as we can. I prefer Rochester to Darcy ;) as long as his character is controlled by Charlotte.

[@moonstruckfaye]

friend and some men they loved. For example in "The mill on the Floss" the reunion with the brother and his understanding of Maggie's behaviour are the most important thing to be settled. And I pity GE for having been so much dependant on the love of a brother who wasn't worth it. And in all of CB's books to love and to be loved is in fact the main issue, which you can understand, but it's still kind of sad. I hope you get what I mean ; )!

[@ksotikoula]

Hi! You can join our conversation anytime. It is always open :) That thing with work happens to me a lot too. Sometimes I am afraid I won't catch the bus in time because I get absorbed with answering comments. Lol!

[@moonstruckfaye]

Strange. I would never have thought, that you can become so happy in a marriage when the love - at first- exists only on one side. I still couldn't imagine doing it. But I also think she didn't ask for so much and that private little happiness was more to her than all fame and success in her career.

[@peterbest3081]

A brilliant human being. Read her novels and learn about yourself!

[@OpatraCleo]

Loveee Gorge Eliiot, she's amaiiziing

[@ksotikoula]

I never doubted that Eliot's books were truthful. But she was not so very passionate or sentimental as Charlotte, at least in her novels. However what she loses for me in sentiment,she gains in force of arguments. I believe she was a very bright woman&even more widely read than the Brontes & also knew a lot more of society because she broke all the rules & conventions. But while I see that in her life, I don't see it in her novels. Instead the Brontes expressed what they missed in life: action.

[@alexapenn6399]

Don't you think she'd rather have been buried next to Lewis? That's not paying a price. . . She had a wonderful life - 25 years with a man she loved who loved her? fame, respect, and money. what a tragedy!! Why do these documentaries make the lives of women writers so sad! i don't call that sad. . . and we all have our tragedies - gee, even men have tragedies. . . why not end celebrating her life instead of saddening it?

[@jassykaur9129]

Alexa, i get what u mean and i think the documentary was commenting on the unfairness of the society in which she lived. And while its sad, it is true. Finally, what wd hv been truly respectful was that she got the same accord other writers got as individuals. In her case, as the commentry says, she did pay the price, as so many still do, in a world where prejudices and rigid rules still exist. What redeems this is as lewis said, there is more beauty in the pathos than in the fun.

[@ksotikoula]

Well the Gaskell biography has the tendency to make Charlotte appear as a sad victim (but in reality she had a lot more humor and was more spirited than that) let alone that Gaskell could not write about her secret forbidden love nor her relationship with her editor. She leaves a lot unsaid about Charlotte and her interesting personality. Middlemarch and the mill on the floss are the two books I have read by Eliot. The second is indeed more personal but still it is not as intense as Jane Eyre.

[@moonstruckfaye]

Eliot was kind of repressed too, being a social outcast and you could call that as well a great force she used well. I see many paralelles in their lives: falling in love with a man who rejects them, then finding a man who truely loves them, but is somehow their misfortune in some way...only that Eliot was the fallen one and Charlotte the one who was always very strict with herself and would never have allowed herself to live forbidden love. I don't think Lewes meant to offend Charlotte.

[@moonstruckfaye]

Ha, ha great answer! ; ) You're strict with Marian's girls. I think it's difficult to say what they rather should have done, but I think their behaviour makes them much more human than heroines in other books, that's what I like about it. Well I'm not that much addicted to Jane Eyre, but I think it's also difficult to judge her. When I read those books I was just like: "Ah noo! Jane/Dorothea/Maggie what are you doing?!?" and followed the development with an huge interest ; )

[@ksotikoula]

Perhaps Heger's marriage too was not to her eyes what it should be.She considered madame Heger cold&perhaps thought her possessive,not really jealous.But she was so punished in that triangle&felt so astray from her usual self that came to the conclusion that when she acted against her conscience, she would be punished. like she was for her "folly" "with the total absence for 2 years of happiness & peace of mind" in the past. Losing herself or belief in God would not have helped her much then.

[@56bluegold]

Interesting and Sad.

[@ksotikoula]

Yes in GE's case it shows very much. In CB's case I think that the lack of a mother is more obvious. Charlotte was always insecure & craved for love & sometimes I don't understand how many people fail to see that the main reason she eventually married Nicholls was the fact that he convinced her for his love. So she may not have married from love but she married for love. For the need to see what it is like to be loved. Of course they were both very sexual women so men played a big role.

[@ksotikoula]

I would not have forgiven Charlotte, had she given a happy ending to Villette. It would just seem unnatural like with Shirley and would change the meaning of this book. It is very difficult to write happy endings when your life is really black. I still wonder how she managed to write Jane Eyre after that devastating love story of hers. I always liked Lucy. She was not cold to me. She was a lot less optimistic and had less self-knowledge than Jane Eyre. A lot of her coldness is really a defense.

[@moonstruckfaye]

chronical (if one can say so ; ), I'll start with the less interesting ones: Brandon is a bore, Darcy is too proud for my taste, Henry Tilney is witty and funny, but a bit too proud of it, Edmund Bertram is an idiot, Knightley is funny to listen to, when he's jealous, but not a man I would chose as lover, because he's too teacher-like and Wentworth is okay but a bit boring. Now the ones I like, despite...well you'll see: Willoughby (mhm, he's just perfect), Edward Farras (cutie! reliable, loyal)

[@moonstruckfaye]

I don't think that Eliot's books lack in action, it's moreover the other way round. Well, let us agree on that: they both had their qualities and their faults - as simple as this! We gonna bore all the viewers of your vid! ; ) But some might be interested too! ; D

[@moonstruckfaye]

Fame and success make you lonely in some way : ) And if I had been CB I would have married him too : ) But I couldn't imagine doing it myself, nowadays. I've just seen that I overlooked one of your comments -an interesting one!- the one about which heros of literature you prefer to Rochester. I haven't read the books you mentioned there yet, but Darcy wouldn't do for me either, suprisingly ; ) But now we've started to ad JA to the discussion, we never gonna end it ; )! Okay, let's try to be

[@moonstruckfaye]

well, there you are very, very right! ; ) And I like to read comments (when my laptop is slowing down... ; )

[@anastaciamartinez595]

Admirable woman

[@moonstruckfaye]

I have read it and I know what you mean. I found it sometimes so depressing that I had to put it aside for some time not to get depressive myself... That was kind of scary but also fascinating, as if someone lets you look into the darkest depths of his(her) soul... But that Paul Emmanuel (wasn't that his name?) should die at the end, that was very cruel, I think. And Lucy Snow is somehow also a very cold person, as Charlotte said herself. But yes,I like the descriptive parts about her feelings!

[@moonstruckfaye]

Bingley is funny and adoreable somehow, Mr Collins ha, ha, no that was a joke ; )!, Henry Crawford (it's unfair which ending JA gave to him, he was just so adoreable and interesting ; ) and Captain Benwick is wonderful somehow ( I wish she would have given his story more place).

[@ksotikoula]

Yes his proposal quite shook Charlotte, but he also had a public breakdown when one Sunday she went to church&he was performing the service. He lost his voice&started trembling all white in front of her&the eyes of the whole village. His emotion was so apparent & the opposition of her father so known that some women began to cry, Charlotte with them as well :). She also found him in her door weeping in their separation. She entered the marriage with very low expectations but she became happy.

[@maham21jan]

She could speak Italian?

[@msjanegrey]

"silver crossing palms" and tapping her nose, no i didnt get her meaning. does she mean to say that he was nutty? ca.3:30

[@mistif07]

I think it means that the witnesses were paid off to keep quiet. Silver referring to money in hand...

[@goodstorylover]

This is what I have found at idioms.thefreedictionary.com: Cross someone's palm with silver - Fig. to pay money to someone in payment for a service. (A fortune-teller might ask for a potential customer to cross her palm with silver. Used in that sense or jocularly for something like tipping a porter.) I have also wondered about that expression. Sorry to react so late to your post, just only found it.

[@ksotikoula]

I liked most Lyndall Gordons, Winnifreds is good too. Barkers is considered a very complete biography of all the Brontes but I doubt if she ever liked Charlotte enough as she presents her too controlling & kind of bitchy (she could be both but not to the extent she presents her). Charlottes writing is not intense due to imagination but due to reality. That is a great value of Jane Eyre: it is so very personal&true. My guess is Charlotte was more repressed & this is a great force.

[@moonstruckfaye]

Well I meant the man Charlotte actually married. And then she died in childbirth, which is of course not his fault, but if she had never married, well who knows?

[@ksotikoula]

I realize now it's been ages since I read Austen. Many of her secondary men that you mention don't ring a bell at all. I like Brandon for his patience and Mr Knightley for being reliable and discreet and I remember I liked captain Wentworth but why? I remember so little of Persuation. I never liked Wickham from the beginning, Ferrars is quite a coward sometimes and Bingley too mild. I can't stand Collins and Miss bates. They would drive me crazy or make me a serial killer. Lol!

[@shellc6743]

Charles Dickens treated his wife like rubbish .... and yet few remember that.

[@moonstruckfaye]

Yes, Bingley and Edward Ferras might bore you after a while... ; ) Knightley wants too much to teach Emma lessons that's why I don't really like him and Brandon (apart from being boring) is an old man who complains during the whole book about his problems towards Elinor. I couldn't bear it! Mr Palmer is cool too, he nearly beats Collins ; )! Have you ever read Wilkie Collins' "The woman in white"? You would love Mr Fairly, he's hilarious, a bit like Mr Woodhouse only even more annoying, lol!