George RR Martin FAILS to Deliver The Winds of Winter and Will NEVER Finish ASOIAF

The Winds of Winter WILL NOT be out in 2020 and A Song of Ice and Fire will NEVER be finished. GRRM posted on Not A Blog that he is making progress, which is great, but he also said there "is a long way to go." Based on what vague details he gave on his progress, it only sounds like he is a little over half way through. After 9 years, after months of lockdown we were all hoping he was headed toward the fish line, but he isn't. Looks like the only ending we get is the disaster that was Game of Thrones Season 8 and A Dream of Spring will only be that...a dream.
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#WindsOfWinter #GameofThrones #GRRM

[@MyDragon66]

A retired boxing champion once said when asked why he retired “ its hard to get up and train at 4am when you’re sleeping with silk sheets on your bed

[@braxxian]

Indeed. The hunger is gone.

[@AdolfSchicklegruber]

Real Deal Holyfield

[@harvey3486]

@@braxxian This may be just me, but i feel the show may have ruined Georges love for the story, an ending is there, his may not be vastly different from it, his success also could play a part. His drive is no longer as great as it used to be. I can imagine that he feels his books are not as valuable as they used to be on their own, but they may always cast a shadow from the terrible ending on the show

[@carlrood4457]

It's like Rocky at the beginning of Rocky III. You need The Eye of the Tiger

[@sierraspoolparty7501]

@@harvey3486 George was taking his sweet time / not writing at all loooong before the show

[@DrGuillermoMolina]

I used to fear GRRM could die before finishing the books. Now my fear is that I could be the one to die before he finishes...

[@davidwatson7196]

That's funny. LoL!!!

[@rainluna9765]

I vote your comment the best I've seen this year.

[@oli.y]

Oh how the tables have turned!

[@Icerollstar1]

underrated comment xDDDD

[@thereccher8746]

I'm only 31 and I have that fear. Maester George will never finish the damn story.

[@claytonhawkins2198]

I loved the series, however because of this man I have created "the Martin Rule". I refuse to start a book series that isn't finished yet.

[@elena0351]

The sad thing is, that's a rule of mine but because the books got split up in the country I bought them from, I had 10 books and assumed the series is finish (Especially because the show was so hyped). I did not inform myself, I just read and was really disappointed. Idk, it feels kind of pointless to have read this far without having a ending

[@ignaciotaborda6538]

Totally, i made it my rule, only making exceptions with authors that have finished already other sagas like Abercrombie and Sanderson. Sad thing is that ASoIaF was the serie that made me love reading (before these books i only read books assigned by the school, where okey but none clicked with me), so it's really depressing that i come to feel apathic to this serie, i will read the books if they come out but i will not feel surprised if that doesn't end up happening.

[@SM-oc4rc]

Same but with Anime for me.

[@dbznappa]

Pretty sure GRRM considers himself a successful artist... And I'm pretty sure he should consider himself a massive failure.

[@Mona-kg6hy]

If you haven't already, I would recommend reading Michael J Sullivan. He has an interesting six/three book (the six books were combined into three) series that's long completed, and a prequel series that just finished. To my understanding, he tends to write where his series are at least mostly finished (even if just first draft wise) before publishing the first book.

[@Romalian]

Worst case scenario: He dies and a ghostwriter takes his notes and finishes. Worster case scenario: Those ghostwriters are D&D

[@eltonjohntubola3212]

Well at least the contents are consistently shit..

[@QueenRed2023]

😂😂😂

[@godspeed2272]

Worstest and most likely scenario: he dies, his notes are lost, and nobody finished it

[@kjcorp154]

Not to sound entitled but I know enough about Game of Thrones and Creative writing to finish it for him.

[@Peter-by3ox]

Wheel of time?

[@foxtrot.uniform.charlie.ki2824]

"Writers and artists are not machines." Stephen King:"hold my existential dread and meet me in Derry"

[@VespoLiveGaming]

Stephen king can write a complete novel by accident.

[@someguy_namingly]

*proceeds to rush the last few Dark Tower books, ruining them*

[@masterjedi343]

@@someguy_namingly I absolutely loved the last few Dark Tower books my friend. However I can see your point. Long Days and Pleasant Nights.

[@rafaelalodio5116]

King just binge drinkers one night and wakes up with a novel.

[@Usernamesdontmatter1]

King is the exception not the rule.

[@spartanhawk7637]

George, Tolkien was a rampant perfectionist and I practically guarantee you he was screaming internally on his deathbed about all he'd left unwritten.

[@berserkasaurusrex4233]

He was also annoyed that Jack Lewis kept finishing Narnia books like they were nothing.

[@bungobox7454]

This is why I have a problem with Peter Jackson's films; Tolkien would have hated them, absolutely

[@jaysmith6327]

True genius amazing world that touched us all....wish amazon hadn't bought the rights...needs to be protected from all this crap these days..forced feminist agenda and race swapping

[@crozraven]

@@bungobox7454 for the OG LOTR? totally disagree. For The Hobbit trilogy? mhhm, maybe so so.

[@underworldent4817]

@@berserkasaurusrex4233 yes , tolkien liked only the first one , the magicians nephew.

[@nickymo]

George RR was saying “I’m working on it! Its right around the corner!” when I was like a freshman in college, that’d be around 2014 lmao

[@danielhajek8047]

I remember talking about WoW back in 2015 when i got to high school, now i am second year college student lol

[@centurymemes1208]

probably the greatest procrastinator ever

[@joaogabrielrodriguesgomesn5264]

I remember marting saying WoW would come out next year; i was in high school ; i am graduating next year

[@JadeRunner]

Does he work for Valve?

[@stuckupcurlyguy]

The comparison with Tolkien becomes even more "stark" (pun intended) when you realise that Tolkien was a FULL TIME professor who taught and marked classes, rewrote his drafts constantly and by the end of writing Lord of the Rings had 9,250 pages of manuscript. And he did all this in the same time it has taken GRRM to pretend to work on Winds of Winter while surrounded by riches.

[@stuckupcurlyguy]

@@NocturneJester Yes GRRM sure is good at finishing his spinoffs that's for sure

[@stevepalpatine2828]

Martin isn't fit to polish Tolkiens shoes.

[@JustSomeGuy]

This dude had a DeCADE to write the novel. He's written two whole novels, a history of Westoros, and several episodes of the show. It's not like he didn't have the time. He just chose not to spend it on finishing the damn story.

[@Leohast]

Terry Prachett wrote a book per year.. and that having alzheimer

[@omersafian7659]

wow! It's almost as if he has other obligations and responsibilities other than the winds of winter!

[@Uthandol]

@@omersafian7659 idk man, not finishing his series is kinda FU to his fans, you know, the people who made him incredibly rich.

[@TheChevLss]

He's too busy with his own fame and milking the fandom cash cow to bother finishing his tale for us lowly Plebs. At this point, he's nothing but a snake-oil salesman in my eyes.

[@ReptarTheUgly]

The dude doesn't love ASOIAF and he's written himself into a weird place because he keeps adding different view points.

[@jonathanblair9731]

When Robert Jordan knew that his illness would prevent him finishing The Wheel of Time, he took the steps necessary to ensure the readers of that series would have an end. Did Jordan have the obligation to do this? No, but he cared enough about his story to tell it and finish it.

[@markdombrowski9619]

Robert Jordan WAS a machine. At one point he was knocking out a book a year. He was not a lazy writer. GRRM IS a lazy writer .

[@NitinKumar-lq6bj]

@@markdombrowski9619 I don't think he is lazy, like he did it for fun but it turned out so popular that it kinda freaked him out, it happens a lot of time, like the Japanese anime movie director, makoto shinkai, his movie "kimi no na wa" Did so well that he had to request the fans to stop watching it, and grrm is a gardener type writer and asoiaf has a much more complex world that Stephen King's but i get the hopelessness that we fans feel

[@jackfarns6448]

ShogunBean AWOT is so long. Stuff seems to happen in the beginning and end of each book the middle just sets stuff up for the end and the beginning of the next boom

[@eduardocruz4341]

@@jackfarns6448 Yeah, I remember when Robert Jordan stated that AWOT was supposed to be a 5 book series then he started adding more books every time to the point in the later novels I skipped sections that dealt with characters I didn't like. If he hadn't gotten sick and died, I just have feeling that AWOT would have been like 25 novels and going.

[@nocrtname]

Wheel of time, was somewhat promising, but I dropped that series after slogging through 50 pages of someone’s ride through a city. Ain’t got time for that, much less a wheel of it.

[@Ham77ify]

I don't want to live in a world where the epilogue of game of thrones was given to us by benioff and weiss

[@Diggnuts]

Do you really think that fat fraud can spin together a better ending? He has no clue and never had. He just writes aimlessly into the night, picking various random pieces of history, changing them up, adding dragons and convoluting them together to suggest a plot/arc where there is none.

[@shady.passionate]

@@Diggnuts i could spin together a better ending than D&D

[@thebloodangel4203]

@@Diggnuts could you write a book like that no so shut up

[@Carlos_GM.]

@@Diggnuts You are just an ignorant. Saying that he writes aimlessly and that there is no plot shows that you don't understand anything that you read

[@brandonlivega]

Diggnuts Were you dropped as a baby?

[@kefln]

I read the first book a couple of years after it first came out. Since then I've moved city three times, I got married, had a couple of kids, built a house and am now well and truly "middle aged". I no longer read the type of books I did over 20 years ago. I really don't think he'll finish those books, and even if he does, I don't know if I have the energy to care.

[@mysteryhombre81]

WOW haha, that really puts things into perspective 😬, unless he leaves notes for someone else, then that series is never getting finshed.

[@sithlordexarkun6984]

Mystery Hombre yeah someone can finish it like Brian Herbert and whoever finished Dune. It’ll probably be bad.

[@lilelo208]

Same, I don't care anymore.

[@mysteryhombre81]

@@sithlordexarkun6984 This happens so often with epic sagas, they really need to rethink the way they do it, like when writers slow start to write out the last few books with qualified assistants helping, and motivating them. But then would it really be his story?

[@tam3116]

😂 Oh wow what a comment. Definitely does put things into perspective.

[@oldmanwinter3597]

It's almost like Martin has made a deal with the devil and the devil only gets his soul when the series is completed.

[@freezysyahz]

Oh. OOOOOOOOOHHHHH

[@pathetic2399]

Would make a lot of sense honestly.

[@TheAkwarium]

and he's half way there

[@JamesMC04]

That should be a Twilight Zone story 😀

[@matt_9112]

Those Tolkien analogies grind my gears so hard. Tolkien turned turned a bedtime story he invented into a self-contained FINISHED adventure novel, he wrote a complete FINISHED sequel (split into a trilogy for publication reasons), that is probably the best sequel ever made (an even greater achievement within today's framework). His notes, poems etc., written without any contractual obligation or promise to readers, were postumously edited together by his son, be it for him wanting people to read his father's work, getting people more stuff from Arda, or even simply for money, doing an amazing job. The Hobbit was the start, LOTR the magnum opus, the Silmarillion/Lost Tales/Unfinished Stories/Guide to the names etc. simply the children of his inspiration and love for the world he created. George put out his "Silmarillion" (Fire and Blood) and "Guide to the Names" (The World of Ice and Fire) out there before finishing his "LOTR" (ASOIAF), or even his Hobbit (Dunk n Egg, admittedly a wonky analogy, by publication history). Many good writers out there can write great stories, but great writers can write great endings (the ending of LOTR being the definite end in Tolkien's case, since anything else is "prequel" time-line wise), we'll see where George will end up (pun intended).

[@reptomicus]

He also wrote it while having academic duties as an Oxford professor.

[@ValgusOrdo]

Well said! Some quick research showed me that LOTR took Tolkien about 12 years to write, but he brought it to his publisher complete, in a single book he wanted released in 6 volumes. The publisher decided to do 3 instead, which became the 3 books we know and love today. That's roughly 4 years a book, or 2 years a book with Tolkien's original plan, but they were all done before he started making money off of them. Meanwhile, Martin has taken 9 years for one book. He started out taking 2 years a book, but books 4 and 5 took 5 and 6 years respectively. Hardly a worthy comparison.

[@joshrivers5191]

@@ValgusOrdo yeah but all 3 lotr books are about the size of 1 asoiaf book.

[@kinghippo2034]

@@joshrivers5191 and a thousand times better, quantity is not quality

[@CapucineNighly]

This is why I enjoyed Tolkien's works. And have almost all his books in my mini library.

[@jerome620]

Not sure why I clicked on this... morbid curiosity? I really just don't care anymore.

[@dbznappa]

I can't even remember what happened in the last books anymore. I was excited almost 10 years ago!

[@Dragonage2ftw]

And?

[@caroltroche4671]

Two years ago I was reaaaally hoping for him to finish the freaking story. Now I don't care anymore😂 I hope he finishes the book while some people still care

[@jeffscott7266]

Yes, like you, many people don’t care or they are heading quickly to not caring anymore. It sucks spending the time & money to have read all five books which is approximately 5000 pages and be denied the ending of the series. GoT’s Dumb & Dumber sure fumbled the ball with the rushed Season’s 7 & 8 and ruined the series ending. It could have been one of the best shows of all time. So I guess we will never get any closure on The Song of Ice & Fire book series either.

[@mypalAbra]

lol still better than being a Berserk fan

[@RB3Author]

If nothing else, George makes me feel much better about my own pace of releasing books.

[@danielledegeorge2129]

Oh, the writer's block! Lament all!!!!!!

[@akashijamoka]

SAMEEEE XD

[@wildhellion1]

Yeah, I get It as a fellow aspiring author, I truly do, life DOES get in the way. But, I still write at least a paragraph or two. Unlike, GRRM(germ)!

[@wildhellion1]

@@akashijamoka Same here!

[@RB3Author]

@Spencer Herren Calm your hate-boner there, Spence.

[@nslater1388]

Waiting for GRR Martin’s latest book. OG Fans: First time?

[@davidnguyen270]

Lol. Seriously, all the show fans acting like the understand the suffering. I've been reading and rereading since early 2000s!

[@rocki_bb]

@@davidnguyen270 I'm just grateful I didn't get that Winter is Coming tattoo I wanted around 2006

[@rustyshackleford1062]

How many years did we wait for a dance with dragons again? I was fortunate enough to come into the series right before a feast for crows dropped myself and its still been more than a decade since I started "waiting for Martin to finish his series".

[@legrandliseurtri7495]

@@rustyshackleford1062 I started and finished reading for the first time last year, I still read it three times already:(

[@wizardsummoner9124]

Actually no. I've been dealing with ASOIAF constant delays since A Feast For Crows...

[@davedarosa9949]

He’s been saying the same thing every year for the past 5 or 6 years. That’s what drives me nuts. Just come out and tell us that you are nowhere close to finishing this book. And you may never finish it. I’d respect him saying that more than the BS he spews every year.

[@keelobrown4991]

Trust me, the whole "im writing, its hard, its a long way off, it'll come when its ready" isnt even an update yet its the only "update" hes given us for years.

[@paulstarstarpaul5700]

I think it’s probably because he doesn’t really know how to finish this enormous story. Since the first book the whole series has only become more complicated. It feels like for every POV character that died two new ones took his/her place. I am afraid he doesn’t quite know how to sum it up now. I don’t believe that he purposely lied to us or wrote other books because he wanted to fuck off the fans. It’s probably because he is writing so many chapters and throwing them away. I can’t even blame him I want a great ending to the series too. However if you asked me for the perfect ending I would have no clue what it would be. Of course that doesn’t really make it better either, but accusing him of lying doesn’t really do it and doesn’t make sense in my opinion.

[@centurymemes1208]

he can only wrote 3 words in a year

[@kyleledermann2473]

Let's all be honest, he made his money and he's old and tired. The fact that D&D destroyed the ending to the TV series makes it all much much worse as well.

[@Rick-zv3xs]

Yeah, it does seem like he doesn't value his work highly enough to actually finish the series. To me, this means that the next book, even if it does get published, won't be good. How could it be, if the writer isn't into it?

[@ens0246]

@@Rick-zv3xs At this point I've sort of made my peace with all kinds of fiction. These kind of situations have happened so often I just enjoy what comes that is enjoyable and try not to be upset by any huge disappointments. I'll always have my own imagination so when it comes to things like this it's just nice to have another possible ending.

[@keelobrown4991]

@@Rick-zv3xs he definitely doesnt enjoy writing asoiaf. He always talks about writing it in a negative way "slogging through" is just one of many examples of the things he's described the process as.

[@TheChurchofCacti]

GRRM gave them that ending.

[@pplr1]

Nick King We don't know that. Sorry to repeat myself from above because someone made a similar claim but that may not be true. We know he told D and D something but when asked if what they did was going to be the same as him GRRM said "Yes and no." More importantly there is evidence D and D have been playing around with the story and changing characters in not small ways from the books. D and D may even have been changing things from their own earlier plans let alone GRRM's. There is proof D and D planned for Cersei to have a miscarriage in season 7 then cut it after it was filmed-this would change any plans for how she interacted with other characters such as Euron, Jamie, and Tyrion. There is also proof that Tyrion was taking a turn towards villain in the books that they changed in the show (for example in the books he murdered Shae-not defended himself against her in self defense-and showed no remorse for it despite her telling him the reason she testified against him was because she was afraid of a member of his family). There is really strong evidence they did major changes to the goings on in Dorn. Additionally there is some evidence that their own earlier plans for season 8 indicated King's Landing was supposed to burn by wildfire rather than most of the city going up due to dragonfire. In sum, D and D broke so many times from the books that the books and show should be considered separate stories and we shouldn't be surprised if many of the characters end up in somewhat similar situation for very different reasons or even very different locations or situations.

[@mesolithicman164]

He's set a bar so high he fears completion. With the lockdown he's had ample opportunity to get the job done. You should assume he won't, and write your own ending. It will be better than the TV version.

[@andyappleton3353]

I've watched episodes of "Tiny Toons" that were better then GoT TV show.

[@shadowhound5113]

Jon snow becomes king.

[@arabiannights5301]

Exactly. He should consider himself extremely lucky, actually. The show bombed so hard that he could publish a book significantly more mediocre than even its predecessors and still see praise and success. At this point, most people would just be grateful that the wait is finally over. Of course, there would be those that sneer and say parts of it were rushed or what have you, but you can never please everybody. He needs to accept what is realistic, what isn't, and get the job done.

[@jameswhite3415]

@Arabian Nights The problem too is he has taken such a long time to write it, people will expect the book to be great. You can’t say a book that was worked on for ten years was rushed. That’s more than the amount of time it takes to get a PHD.

[@arabiannights5301]

@@jameswhite3415 That's why I said 'parts of it'. Obviously the entire thing wouldn't be. He has taken so long, yes, but which would people rather? It never even comes out and he keeps making excuses until he dies, or it comes out but it isn't quite the masterpiece some people hoped?

[@Bucketus.Lord.of.Buckets]

Spoiler alert: he'll die before he finishes the series, making the GoT ending canon by default.

[@iainrobb2076]

Unfortunately, yes.

[@EnsignRedshirtRicky]

@@iainrobb2076 If anyone cared, they would hijack it and write a proper ending. Too bad interest was cancelled after S8.

[@pdzombie1906]

Just like Lucas legacy became Star Wars Disney...

[@apacalypsagon3758]

Believe it or not that wasn't really the ending either. Watch the dragon demands.

[@Hybrid980]

Ooof, that black pill is too big sir.

[@ryankinel-rkoutpost1]

I just don't think he can handle the pressure. We'll never see it. Sad for all GOT fans.

[@sithspawnjones1988]

Kinda reminds me of the eu not getting a true ending after crucible.... But still I love the world he created and the books I have still keep it alive to me just like good old starwars

[@brianmccann666]

Ehh. The books aren't that great to be honest.

[@whitewolf7454]

Great alternative is “The Witcher” complete story, 8 books, all fantastic.

[@smorre4004]

@@whitewolf7454 Sadly, I'm hearing much of The Witcher was plagiarized off Elric by Michael Moorcock.

[@troglodytezero1697]

I agree, the series became too big storywise as well as popularity

[@cadenlorenzo3345]

“You don’t decide your legacy, the universe decides for you.” Great quote.

[@Sam_on_YouTube]

Oh my god, my kids weren't even born yet when the last book was written.

[@Crick1952]

In other news, congratulations! Maybe we'll get WoW before they go to college

[@domhuckle]

Hahahahhah ha oh my god this is amazing. How old will they be? Old enough to read it? Would you do that to them?...

[@Sam_on_YouTube]

@@domhuckle I'm hoping it comes out before they can read it. They're 8 now and my wife and I are debating whether or not Harry Potter and the Order of the Phoenix is too dark. Just finished Goblet of Fire.

[@domhuckle]

@@Sam_on_KZbin it's tricky to make a judgement call, but I remember someone saying that if a child can read then every book is a children's book. It depends on when you think complicated things should be introduced

[@Sam_on_YouTube]

@@domhuckle Our plan was that we would read the first 2 to them, and they could read the rest when they could read well enough to do it. But during quarantine, well, we needed some nice long term non-screen projects. So we read #3 and 4 to them. My wife is in there now reading Artemis Fowl.

[@KnightSquire]

If you don't care to finish, and you don't need the money, then simply reveal what happens overall... I would sooner take a summary than a story with no ending.

[@Lollaffers]

well I guess that's what the TV show was. Although I hope a horribly bad hollywoodified version.

[@3X0SK3L3TON]

the tv show is the ending now

[@writingalias4401]

someone will finish the books if he dies. Writers keep notes

[@pplr1]

@@writingalias4401 A nice thought but in situations like that the following writers require the permission of the prior writers or their families. Who said that will happen here? As was rightly and importantly pointed out by Nerdortic, GRRM can legally refuse both and seems to have.

[@pplr1]

I treat seasons 1-7 or seasons 1-six as a story ending on a cliffhanger. Season 8 was so detached from GoT I don't feel obligated to count it as part of the same story nor do I see others being obligated to. As one small reminder (among others) bells in GoT King's Landing don't mean surrender (see season 2).

[@anarchist_parable]

I honestly wish the show never existed I feel like the fame distracted him and robbed some of his passion for the story. It feels a bit like he doesn't have respect for us. I'm super patient with art. Most writers have that one magnum opus and die. George wrote a really broad and complex story, of course it will take time. It just feels like he isn't truly concerned with finishing the series. This is only the second to last book. He's so annoyed with us for loving his work.

[@JustAnArrogantAlien]

I can't stand that sense of entitlement from these people. George Martin is living the life that countless other struggling authors would kill for, and as far as I can see, he doesn't appreciate it at all.

[@byakurenhoujuu]

@@JustAnArrogantAlien I mean, not every author wants that life. But you can't control if people like your book.

[@chiot888]

JustAnArrogantAlien you can’t stand HIS sense of entitlement? You’re saying he doesn’t appreciate his life at all just because he hasn’t finished a story you feel entitled to. Grow up. Sure many authors would kill for exposure, but he clearly isn’t one of them, he just wrote a good story and it got popular. He doesn’t owe you anything simply because you enjoyed it, bud.

[@RanMouri82]

@@chiot888 No, that person and others are saying it because Martin doesn't seem to care anymore about finishing his series. It's like showing a movie that suddenly stops in the final 30 minutes with no resolution. It's a massive tease. His readers spent their money and hours of their lives getting invested in his well-written books by reading them. His readers have been patient! They only take issue with Martin not caring if he ever finishes the story he's been telling them.

[@chiot888]

@@RanMouri82 i'll agree, he doesn't seem to be very interested in finishing the series. or at least very motivated. and if he never finished it, i'd be upset. but that's life sometimes, things don't work out. what you don't seem to be understanding, is just because you've invested in his PREVIOUS stories, doesn't entitle you to any possible stories he's writing in the future. it is NOT like showing a movie that suddenly stops before the finale, because that would mean you financially invested in an unfinished product. every book you buy is completely written, with a beginning and end. it might be part of an extended series and world, like movies can also be part of an extended series and world, but it is itself a fully fleshed out product and everything you've invested in so far has been provided. a lot of book series end before their "final book", this is really not uncommon in the literary world. it's an upsetting reality, but just because you enjoy a story does not mean the author owes you anything beyond it.

[@emperorreign6154]

Writers aren’t machines sure but the gap between the release of books is just ridiculous. 10 years since the last one, with no end in sight to its completion, the fans have been patient enough. No one is expecting him to churn out a book annually or anything 🤔🤔so those defending him with the tiresome rhetoric that he’s not a machine, yes we’re aware of that, but it doesn’t take a machine to release a story within a reasonable period of time. Particularly when he started it almost 30 years ago.

[@infinitedreamer9359]

Agreed.

[@tanmaykumar4561]

I don't think you realize the scale that TWOW needs to be of in order to tie all the threads/foreshadowing in a satisfying way.

[@infinitedreamer9359]

@@tanmaykumar4561 Sure, I can understand plots being complex enough to the point where you have to put in more thought and effort than usual which does take time,but 10 years is still a ridiculous timeframe to wait for something like that. At that point,it feels less like planning something out and more like you don't how how to conclude the story you made. More specifically,he might've underestimated just how many subplots he made . And it's not like GRRM has shared in detail what his progress is,so while he could be almost done with ADoS,he could also be nowhere near as finished as he claims to. And if his claims about being almost done are not the truth,then frankly he should shut his mouth and stop giving people false hope about when the next books are going to be out. Like,if GRRM genuinely doesn't want to work on the book at this time,that's fair,but don't lie to people about it. Giving people false hope about something when you don't actually want to do it is one of the worst things to me and I have no sympathy for people like that. And I say this as someone who's not a fan of ASoIaF but likes reading and just commenting on what i see and what was said in the video. I think that's what rubbing most people the wrong way. It's well within his rights if he wants to take a break on writing the books or he simply doesn't want to do it anymore,but he's going out there and claiming that he's making progress on the books,but as far as most fans can tell the reality is the exact opposite. And patience is a virtue,but asking fans to wait 10+ YEARS for closure to a series is dumb and I wouldn't be surprised if GRRM starts losing his audience because of his wishy washy attitude. People aren't going to wait forever and eventually some fans are just going to stop giving a damn. I refuse to comment any further on this.

[@aceofswords1725]

He's a lazy bum. That is all.

[@KarlVyt]

Besides admitting he does tend to procrastinate there are a also a few factors. He rewrites stuff constantly and has tossed out quite a bit of material when writing for past books. AFFC and ADWD had a lot of material deleted since he thought it wasn't up to snuff.Some chapters were simply withheld for inclusion in future books to later realized they didn't fit there either so he had to start from scratch again. And finally he has lost a lot of his early creative spark he had at the beginning of ASOIAF. Plus the original idea was just for three books .He had a general idea about them and sure enough the first three books were released rather quickly. Now since the story has ballooned so much he has had difficulty in trying to reach an end point(which honestly I think he still doesn't really have a clue on how to end it properly despite him saying otherwise).And not to mention the constant distractions with the show and other book related material he's gotten himself into. All this combined and you get a pretty good picture of why it's taking so long. What I found interesting is that when writing A world of Ice and Fire / Fire and Blood he thought he was going to write only a few chapters and general information but ended up writing most of the material. The books are taking so long that he finds the creative spark for the backstory rather than the finish.

[@michelechadwick3808]

All I really want is for George to admit it probably isn’t coming, for him to quit stringing us along with promises. I’d respect him more if he said “well kids it’s like this, after watching the TV series I’ve sort of lost my passion for this world.” And then let the whole universe of ice and fire die and be buried. Let us mourn and move on. And if he quietly finishes writing Winds of Winter in the mean time and publishes it we will all be happy and grateful because we didn’t expect it.

[@monaskulllll]

That is the most pleasant possible outcome.

[@stefanuzunov1146]

That comment is kind of pathetic actually. He's a writer. Every writer is more or less different then the others. For all those years he has written other books, because that's what's been on his mind. The whole process is kind of subconscious thoughts passed on a scrap of letter to you consciousness. Its not something, that's been force. It's good to be involved with things, but if you are way to much into it, you can try self-analysis, to see why are you so desperate to get it. Is it because something in your life is lacking or not satisfying or whatever. Anyway, i've said too much for free already, so: get help from yourself and dont bitch around like you are the biggest victim ever. 😂😂 P.s: im kind of a troll 😂😂

[@l00d3r]

It would be understandable if he were to announce he is retiring from writing to enjoy what remains of his life. It would also be nice if he were to partner with another author to finish his work. Joe Abercrombie could be a nice pick, as he is a prolific writer and his specialization is grim dark fantasy which would fit GOT well.

[@GunninRebel55]

He’s not “stringing us along.” You have every right and ability to disengage and live your life. And no matter what we as fans want, GRRM has those same rights. Get over it.

[@GunninRebel55]

D-Ice's baby brother Thank you! Finally someone with a little understanding and willingness to see things from a non-selfish point of view. GRRM is certainly trying and the point you make about wanting to make it flawless is right in line with all of his work thus far. There’s never been a more intricate story to be weaved together and brought to a sensible ending.

[@ctastrophe]

“Fan Entitlement,” also known as “people who love your work and demand to throw piles of money at you if you just do your job,” is a writer’s way of saying that they know they’re letting the fans down but want to blame anyone but themselves

[@Lionstar16]

Considering how much of our personal time and money we put towards things we love, a little damn gratitude and co-operation from creators would be nice

[@kimberlyb.]

THIS.

[@Spongebrain97]

I would've disagreed if it was a snobby fan after two years complaining but he's been literally at it since 2011 so yeah no that excuse is long dead and he is losing the interest of his fans

[@Micheal93k]

I mean he has a point. He creates a product and people choose to buy it or not. He doesn't own anyone anything. You got what you paid for.

[@ctastrophe]

@@Micheal93k In this instance we were told from the beginning that one single book was not the whole story. If you sell a person an unfinished product don't get shocked when they start making demands. It's like paying a plumber who fixes half your bathroom, says he'll be back soon to finish it, then wonders why you get upset when he decided the job he did was good enough

[@ShamblesMD]

"Writers and artists are not machines." Eiichiro Oda: Hold my strawhat.

[@nareshbisen8638]

Lol true that man is on a mission.

[@dmajmendoza436]

Naresh Bisen I was mad at how “fast paced” Wano was especially because he skipped stuff like Page1 vs Sanji, but I realized how many chapters Wano is and it is huge and is already almost if not close to the size of Whole Cake island which is only smaller than Dressrossa and Skypeia

[@DeadKraken]

Manga artists are often so overworked by their editors that they get ill(both body and mind), that is NOT an healthy way of working. Oda himself has to take entire months of vacation more and more frequently because the work is quite literally destroying his health. People are still not machines, even if they try to be lol Having said that, GRRM is lazy as fuck.

[@basilhanas8453]

Cries in Berserk and HxH

[@D2attemp]

Basil Hanas finally Caska gets healed!

[@selyam283]

The Geilman proposition. It is not a question of being the "bitch" of some reader. A story, by definition, has a start, a middle and an ending. For convenience, editors and authors break down long stories into volume, but when they sell you the first tome there is an implied contract that there will be an ending, a last tome; if not, nobody, I repeat, nobody will give ten bucks for this first tome. So there is a moral obligation to finish the story. There was trust between readers of this first tome and the author that ending will be forthcoming. If not this trust will be betrayed.

[@Kiido11]

I agree fully with this sentiment. However, I wanted to read more about this "Geilman proposition" but Google didn't turn anything up. Could you direct me to sources?

[@bisque6448]

"Moral obligation" you people are utterly ridiculous

[@MaegnasMw]

@Selyam OK, your trust will be betrayed, how many fucks do you think GRRM will give? Do you think he CARES? Now that he has made more than he can spend in two lives and is close to the end of his only one? No, baby, nothing like that! You see a book that says "volume 1", YOU must decide "do I buy this now or wait for "volume last" or whatever?" The author owes you nothing, the publisher decided to split the work or the author works in a way that you may find unacceptable - but the author does not work for YOU!

[@Zero_2500]

@@MaegnasMw blah blah blah. GRRM has ALL the leverage. He hasn’t written the last 2 books because he doesn’t have to and is not gracious about it. He let’s everyone know he isn’t writing what they want. Great way to leave a legacy of being a selfish, starfucking, Hollywood self absorbed dick. Tolkien is 10x the man GRRM has ever been.

[@joeconte8475]

There’s a real contractual obligation as well. GRRM signed a deal with his publishers to finish the series. He is really betraying the fan’s trust and being kinda egotistical towards his publishers. AKA everyone who made him successful and he’s giving a big middle finger to because now he’s old and has money.

[@roguesbackstory3441]

New Ending: Everyone has been waiting so long, they all just decide to retire. War is exhausting.

[@RanMouri82]

Now I'm picturing the characters standing around Westeros, tapping their feet, and then saying, "Screw it, I'm going home."

[@masterjedi343]

Why do I imagine that scenario where every single character is just sitting in a green room drinking coffee or talking while waiting for George to finish and give them more directions. Then finally, Jamie stands up. "Fuck it. Let's all go home." Edit: Oh someone else had the same idea lol.

[@TheMasaaz]

Still better ending than season 8.

[@anthonyappleyard5688]

@@masterjedi343 Or they get tired of waiting and write fan-fiction continuations.

[@floraposteschild4184]

Prompting a new series: The Golden Girls: Westeros

[@zztopz7090]

No, George isn't obligated to finish the book, but we're not obligated to stay invested. The books are popular now, but an unfinished series is going to be erased from history.

[@moongem4489]

There's absolutely no reason for a series to be forgotten just because it's unfinished. Nonsensical argument. I'd rather read an amazing series that didn't end than one that ends badly and rushed.

[@mr.hawklingiii8739]

Isn’t he obligated to his publisher? Pretty sure he can’t just not finish

[@AAAAAA-zw7oh]

@@mr.hawklingiii8739 I mean... I don't think the ripper cares about those obligations... (god give GRRM a long and healthy life, but in case he doesn't finally end the series it would probably be due to health issues).

[@joseulloa7403]

I kinda disagree because , yes, I know that he’s not obligated, however it’s about showing respect to the fans. I agree that he doesn’t have to work at the rate that we consume but it’s been 10 years and we might have no closure since he’s been not getting older. Not finishing a series is like not having Chekhov’s gun fulfilled but on a grand scale. Imaging if after 10 years of build marvel cancelled infinity war and said they weren’t making anymore due to them wanting to do other things. They’re not obligated to but out of respect you should and if you’re not going to finish at least let someone competent finish it

[@Grivian]

The series is way less popular now, and that was caused by game of thrones season 8. If GRRM want to rekindle the interest in the series, and the previously planned prequels he needs to finsh the book asap.

[@andrewlekkas]

Side note about the Silmarilion: Tolkien actually NEVER published it during his lifetime. As long as it wasn't finished, he wouldn't publish it and that's why it took so long to be "completed", revision after revision. It was only after Tolkien's death that his son actually wraped up the manuscript and tried to publish a "complete" story. The people did not know they needed the Silmarilion because they didn't even had a chance to read it before it was kind of completed and, thus, published. Martin justs "treats" you with a book every 6-7 years (average). It is so infuriating of him making such a comparisson...

[@Mephilis78]

Yeah Gary said that. I agree that George not finishing WOW is more akin to Tolkien writing Fellowship, and Two Towers, then never finishing Return of the King. I mean, since technically each one is actually two books.

[@Mephilis78]

@Lionard Kirsch And? What's your point? If you start building a house and "loose your passion" halfway through do you just quit? GRRM fancies himself as a technical/methodical writer. Technically he doesn't need passion. Just his method.

[@gabrielhill995]

nimbleneedle rustic=hobbit Art nouveau=elf Art Deco= dwarf He didn’t build art styles he just borrowed and explained the basic concepts He did write languages for each though but that’s the primary reason the story exists at all

[@chopin65]

Loved it when you said: We're not asking George to write a book every year. We are asking him to write one every ten years. 😂

[@theproofistrivial7677]

My theory is he doesn’t know how to finish the novel in a satisfactory way, because he’s added so many subplots and characters. I dabbled in novel writing myself and plotting is HARD, even a simple plot. From the writer perspective, I have no idea how I would begin to finish his story. And I strongly suspect he doesn’t either. And writing something that complex is something you do in a feverish haze. You drag it out and you’ll never finish it. He’s probably many years removed from really, REALLY knowing his own world inside out. It’s like trying to get back to a reading a long novel after putting it down for years. You don’t know what happened before you put it down and would probably hand to reread. And as a programmer by day, my first reaction when faced with a seemingly insurmountable intellectual and creative challenge is to procrastinate. Fortunately for me I don’t have conferences and book signings demanding my attention so no real good alternatives to just sitting there and figuring it out.

[@biacrepaldi4681]

Completely agree with you. He’s written himself into a hole that he doesn’t know how to climb out of. And with the added pressure from fans and what seems like a loss of passion for his series? I’m pretty sure we’re not getting a finale. Hell, if I were him and had a series this big, with a plot this complex, and didn’t even want to finish it anymore but had as much pressure to do so as he has? Can’t blame him for doing this, I’d do the same

[@krakapoww]

This is very true. And in addition, imagine the fatigue. All those years with those stories. He might wake up one Day and find his life is more enjoy able if he starts learning the guitar, or painting watercolors. He is a prisoner of his own opus by now. I cant imagine it being much fun

[@InTheKM]

This is a really good point. Even from my perspective, were the book to come out tomorrow, I'd feel as though I'd need to read through all the books again. I've seen the series 3 or so times but I can barely remember some of the non-show subplots. I highly doubt GRRM does either. Fact of the matter is - he isn't motivated to continue the story and the sooner we make peace with that the better. That God awful ending the shoe served up is the only ending we are ever going to get 😭

[@raguelelnaqum]

@@biacrepaldi4681 I wouldn't say that he's written himself into an inescapable hole, but I do agree that he's lost passion. And who wouldn't after what D&D did with their adaptation of his story. Anyone who actually read the books knows that D&D basically was butchering stuff once when they started cutting whole plotlines and arcs worth of content. And Martin isn't an idiot, for many people that will be the definitive adaption of his work in living memory, even if he finishes his series. It's a legacy thats been crippled by D&D's hack directorship. Who wouldn't lose passion when you realize that the masses will never be able to fully encapsulate how you envision the art you made?

[@ridensroom6957]

It's true. This is why I have an issue with the Aegon story. Fake or real, it's storyline that if cut would have allowed him to focus on other storylines. They still could have used Jon Connington and the golden company but scrapped everything else.

[@thingsicantfind9545]

Season 8 was one of the worst seasons in television history and has absolutely ruined the franchise, not at all interested anymore

[@strykrpinoy]

lol overreacting much, you clearly don't watch television if you believe that season 8 was disappointing but far from the "one of the worst" ever.

[@derekmcmanus8615]

What? You didn't enjoy watching a black screen?

[@JohnnyKaw11B]

@@derekmcmanus8615 lol and the respawning of the dothraki and unsullied

[@Zathren]

If only he finished his work. Instead of laughing while counting his money.

[@jserrano51]

The books are far superior to that trash TV Show. Since Season 1 was trash. Read the source material dummy.

[@Ancientreapers]

7:02 The Silmarillion to me is a prequel. All it does is expand on the history and the origin stories of a lot of the characters. It's not needed to enjoy or get a complete story for the Hobbit or The Lord Of The Rings.

[@davidh.4944]

The Silmarillion (along with his other unpublished works) wasn't even a prequel, because it wasn't a "story", per se. It was Tolkien's fantasy history/mythology, his own version of the Norse Sagas he loved. It was the setting in which his stories happened. As such, it could never have been complete; there was always room for another detail, another legend, another piece to add to the puzzle. When I was involved in RPGs in my youth, I often spent hours and hours drawing up maps, creating backgrounds and histories, thinking up scenarios, 90% of which I never used in any of the games I ran. I really did it mostly for my own creative exercise and amusement. I see Tolkien as doing much the same. He was world-building for the sake of world-building; with an occasional story from that world thrown in for others to enjoy. So no, you don't need to know anything about the Silmarilion to enjoy Tolkien's published works. It's enough that it was there, in his mind, inspiring him to express his world in print. But thanks to his son, it's now there should you ever want to dive deeper into the universe he created.

[@AeneasGemini]

I'm not sure you can call an Encyclopedia a prequel. It doesn't really expand the story so much as provide you with a massive data dump with no narrative coherency. Not saying stories couldn't be made from it, but it wouldn't be his

[@sualtam9509]

It's not a prequel. He wrote LotR because his publisher thought the Silmarillion was too celtic and he should do a sequel to the Hobbit instead.

[@Ryan_Winter]

@Alex M I think that's the best analog mentioned here. The Silmarillion is not one coherent story, it's a collection of tales about some important people. And the scope of both the time frame and the location changes often from days and a particular place to "an age" and continents, sometimes within the same story about one particular person. Some just hang around literally forever, while others have a rather short story. Some people have more than one name and you need to remember that later on, because for instance when Elwe changes his name to Elu Thingol his original name doesn't get mentioned anymore.

[@JRazielX]

How many people would have never started reading it if they knew there is not going to be an ending? I would not have started it at all.

[@derekmcmanus8615]

My oldest daughters where in the womb when I got my admittedly pre release copy of the first novel...Eleanor has a degree and is saving to get married now! We will never see the conclusion of this fantasy series

[@johnglue1744]

Hahaha I knew it was a while back when I read the first book when it came out but damn I realize it is a loooooong time after reading your comment.

[@AnnaMarianne]

Your daughter has an awesome name.

[@thedeadnightking9975]

Itakafu he said she is going to get married!

[@saras123]

Itakafu you didn’t even bother sliding into your future mother in laws DM didn’t you😂😂🤦🏽‍♀️

[@derekmcmanus8615]

@@AnnaMarianne thank you...I have 4 daughters Eleanor Emelye (the twins) Madeleine (the rascal) and Sophia Rose Elizabeth the youngest! Her mother went a bit over the top with that one!

[@vermis8344]

I think he's saying that no-one minds that The Silmarillion wasn't finished. Ignoring the fact that The Sil actually provides continuity from the creation of Arda up to the events of The Hobbit and The Lord of the Rings. It has something resembling a conclusion. Also that, while it might not have been the Prof's intent, The Sil is gravy on the main course that is LotR. George is concentrating hard on the gravy while his main course is being served half-frozen.

[@DanteColburn]

Exactly. He's probably busy writing the second part of Fire & Blood, while the main story gets put on ice and he's not getting any younger.

[@EpicMathTime]

Yeah, it's such a bullshit comparison. Makes it sound like he's hunting for an excuse.

[@saint.vitus.7775]

Well said, mate.

[@southpaw2471]

My favorite part is when people like Gaiman say the author has no obligation to finish the series, and I say 'Agreed, which is why I only buy books from completed series.' To which I always get to hear: 'If you won't buy the books when they come out, they'll never make enough to finish the series'. So apparently *I* have an obligation to incur the risk of not getting an ending?

[@RoninDave]

it's rich of him to say that when Martin owes much of his wealth and clout to the sales and merchandizing of his unfinished series

[@mpsorrentino]

11:24 GRRM may not owe the fans anything, but he does have a contract with his publisher for the last two books and they've already paid for them, it's called an advance. If it wasn't for the HBO show making GRRM a much bigger name than he had been, the publisher would not be letting him get away with constant delays. Any less-known writer would already be getting called upon to return the advance for failure to deliver by now.

[@fcv4616]

Agree. Whether you believe an author owes his fans or not, he's still creating a product. If you promise a product, you deliver it. If you don't, you give a refund. Being an artist isn't different.

[@valtersplume3726]

So it's actually the spineless publisher's fault for letting GRRM slack off without repercussions?

[@LordB-dg8ks]

Many years ago, I was reading a series of books called the Wheel of Time. While not as hero-killing as GoT, it was a good story that performed the act of the heroes journey, his hubris, and fall from grace with the best of them, while promising a great redemption arc in the final book of the series. They also performed amazing work with several more of their characters, with the Gandalf-like one actually being shown to be an egotistical fool before she too would learn from her mistakes, grow and change. Then the author, Robert Jordan, died. They passed the series off to Brandon Sanderson, thought by many to be the best fantasy writer of today. The series was finished, but it wasn't WoT. The guy may have had Rob's notes, his wife, and loved his work, but he wasn't Robert Jordan. The story lost its flavor and ran as fast as it could to the ending while leaving behind several plot holes that made me think "what the actual fuck?" because they threatened to swallow the entire WoT universe. A Song of Ice and Fire will never really end, because the out of shape, 70+ year old writer is going to die, the job is going to be passed to another, and it is going to either copy the television show, or suck all on its own.

[@skiveman]

As you say, the ending of WoT didn't have the flavour of RJ's WoT. To make a really bad analogy it was like watching Robin Hood : Prince of Thieves with Kevin Costner and getting really engrossed only for the film to cut off 20 mins from the end and then have Robin Hood starring Patrick Bergman come on for it's last 20 minutes. Not that dramatic obviously, but when I did a full re-read when I got the last book that's what it kinda felt like.

[@dirkwolf9463]

Ditto, WOT is my absolute favorite, I picked Eye of the World up in the airport on a trip in high school. Throughout my life I reread the whole series with each new book and when Jordan died I was shook, knowing the ending would never live up to his previous work.

[@ShamblesMD]

Indeed. I know there are millions of people who wish Frank Herbert lived for at least another 10 years because even though he had cliffnotes Brian Herbert isn't his father.

[@Klickor]

As someone who read all of Jodans books in my own native language and not english and then the last 3 in english I didnt notice much of a difference. Probably the changing of languages that somehow smoothened the transition over to Sanderson. Makes it hard to point out what is really different. Is it the writing style or the language? Have listened to the books in english as well but only the Jordan books. Will probably never do all the books in a row in the same language or medium. Might ruin part of the ending for me if I did.

[@thomaslynch7838]

I really liked the last WOT, the series had gone at a snails pace for so long that it was great to get the action packed final instalment with the huge final battle that had been building for so long. I loved RJ’s work but it just dragged on way too long. Regarding ASOIAF... it’s never going to be finished, I’ve kind of given up on it now tbh, sad as that is to say.

[@Kevin-wx7wu]

New ending: it was all a simulation inside Bran's head and everyone will congratulate him at the end for realising it

[@RoberttheWise]

I am imagining the scene from NGE where Shinji (here Bran) stands there and everyone else stands around him applauding xD

[@guikoi3101]

@@RoberttheWise Thing is, NGE's ending was because of a lack of funding. It was essentially just a tiny piece of the last episode made into the last few episodes. The movie "End of Evangelion" has the actual final few episodes and they're much better... but at the same time, they're also a lot more a bittersweet (a ton of bitter, with only a small amount of sweet). I'm not going to go all "it's too deep for you" like the stereotype of NGE fans are... but I do believe that what the series is trying to say is something that deserved to be said, and I think the way they did it in the movie is great! The actual anime ending, though, was a bit (read: really) weird and convoluted. End of Evangelion is basically the True End that the anime didn't provide because they had no money. It was only after they got the money that they did what they originally intended. But... I love NGE, so I'm probably biased towards it, so take my opinion as a grain of salt.

[@RoberttheWise]

@@guikoi3101 Your breaking down open doors here with me, mate.

[@jongerbergerdecht5579]

Bran launches BranHub premium for wargs to watch couples fucking in front of wierwood trees

[@MRJTD99]

@@jongerbergerdecht5579 Hahaha

[@johnlane7529]

It took Michelangelo four years to paint the frescoed ceiling in the Sistine Chapel.

[@glorfification]

Lorenzo Ghiberti took 21 years to finish carving the doors for the Florence Baptistry. Imagine getting one job doing one thing that lasts 21 years! I bet it started to drag a bit around year 17.

[@edgeofthought]

It took Carl Jung 16 years, 1913-1929 to craft The Red Book until the final point of abandonment, then another 10 years from 1999 to 2009 for Sonu Shamdasani to edit it into the final publishable work. Commonly, with the family Tolkien, where these two parties perhaps contrasts against GM, is the ideal love of the material by the authors, hidden as it may have been, and the desire for the creative craft to be gifted to the world posthumously. So that might be GM's final legacy, if his notes are allowed to be burned (as mentioned by another in another sub-comment about The Silmarillion).

[@athanasiadrivas7153]

Yeah only four years...

[@etprincipalis]

I think one of the most frustrating things is that GRRM excused himself from writing the show (at least, that's what he said), in order to get a jump on writing Winds of Winter. Then the show got fucked up, in a large part BECAUSE of the writing that no longer had its mastermind to piece plot / theme / characters together, which makes it so that everything feels kind of pointless. He said: I'll leave to write the book and we thought "Hey! That's great", except he didn't fulfill his promise, and allowed the show, a major reason why ASOIAF became so popular, to crash and burn. He gave false hopes to fans stating that no matter what happened in the show, his ending would follow the logic of the books and would be a satisfying conclusion to the story, but for NINE YEARS he failed to do so. I'm not saying he should just power through and finish the books once and for all, I am however a believer that he should stop giving expectations to everyone. If he truly cared about his readers, he could very much come out and say: "no more deadlines" or even admit that he doesn't know how/ doesn't want to finish the series. Let's be real, he made a fuck ton of money, more than he could ever spend, he became a household name and is pretty much set for the rest of his life. It kinda seems that his own ego is getting in the way, he doesn't want to admit that he's no longer interested in the series and is aware that if he came clean and admited that he doesn't have any intentions of finishing the series, the books might suffer a lot of backlash and won't get into the "LOTRs HALL OF FAME" which was his objective all along. Smh, I will not be supporting this bullshit.

[@JazzAK6969]

Spot on. Once D&D ran out of material and GRRM wasn't there to help the show went to shit. I agree this feels like an ego thing like in a way he's trolling us. They want it so bad, well I have no reason to, so fuck em. It's sad because he really is an excellent writer.

[@doxasophosmoros]

It was George's ending and he's a bloated overrated writer. Remember he also pimped his own asoiaf franchise to HBO. His ego deluded his ability to finish a narrative. The last 22 years of his books are boring and bloated with costumes descriptions, barely any dialogue or plot.

[@doxasophosmoros]

A mastermind doesn't write himself into a corner like that.

[@nutyyyy]

This is the reason I don't give him a lot of slack. Because he could just come out and say its going to take a long time because he's not focused on it and has lost the passion or that its too convoluted to finish but he doesn't. He keeps stringing everyone along because he doesn't want to take away any hype for his other works.

[@Price_of_Fame]

I honestly laugh at anyone who still thinks he is finishing these books. It's been obvious he isn't going to for years now.

[@davehebert3403]

I'm starting to think that the same goes for Patrick Rothfuss. I've been waiting for the 3rd book in his series for years and years.

[@kenny9582]

@@davehebert3403 Read Malazan.

[@somakdutta9838]

@@davehebert3403 Yeah, I have been waiting for such a long time. They are so many threads to wrap up, it's maddening every time I remember it.

[@Briggie]

I gave up after he missed releasing it before the show ran out of book material.

[@davehebert3403]

@@kenny9582 Okay. I'll check it out.

[@romjohnprado5066]

The winds of winter will definitely be released. A dream of spring though has a remote chance to be even written

[@seldomseensmith4684]

It may be published but it probably won't be finished. He's in his 70's, morbidly obese and out of shape and one pastrami sandwich away from a massive heart attack. He's also, obviously, lost where the story's going and how to end it.

[@stellaartois8853]

If TWoW will be released it will be the same thin soup of a story that AFfC and ADwD have been.

[@seldomseensmith4684]

@@stellaartois8853 Yup. The first book was great but they progressively got worse and worse. I read Game of Thrones in a week but each successive book took longer and longer til I hit A Feast of Crows and that took me almost 2 months to get through. Found it incredibly boring, that was the last one I read as I figured he'd lost interest or lost the thread of the story.

[@justarandomgirlvx3578]

@@seldomseensmith4684 opposite for me because feast for crows is in my opinion the best one so far, because it has more depth and is so thematically rich.

[@rht785]

i dont think wow will ever be published GOT is truly dead.

[@lloydcollins]

Something you may not have considered: ‘Georgie Boy‘ no longer has to write books to get paid, keep the farm running, etc. He has been getting nice fat checks from HBO for 9 years...the same 9 years he’s been working on that next book. Not to mention all that lovely new licensing income. It’s not that he is unmotivated, he’s just enjoying his spoils too much! The hungry lion always runs faster then the fed lion!

[@rohmann000]

yup. This, PLUS, the fact that there are so many subplots for him to control.

[@LordofFullmetal]

I mean, fantasy also just takes a really long time to write. Especially well crafted high fantasy. Lord of the Rings, which is much shorter, took seventeen years to write.

[@bananasaur5209]

@@LordofFullmetal well, yes, but actually no.

[@axosaja]

JK Rowling had already made a packet by the time she was half way through the Harry Potter books, but had planned and drafted out the plot before she started and completed the series, thicker volumes and all. Who else suspects that JRRM is just muddling along, making it up as he goes along in a very self-indulgent manner?

[@mayraalternative9240]

I'm surprised he hasn't accepted ghostwriters at this point

[@markwelschmeyer2426]

he never will

[@JazzAK6969]

It's sad because the fantasy genre has many excellent authors right now. I think it would provide him the kick in the butt he needs to be around someone more motivated to finish the story who could also challenge him as a peer.

[@fishy7901]

It's the equivalent of ordering a pair of sneakers and just getting the left one, then being told you may or may not get the right one.

[@Jones_to_Bear]

Not really. It’s more like buying the left sneaker and then expecting the right one because you brought the left.

[@fishy7901]

@@Jones_to_Bear I disagree, when you call it a Song of Ice and Fire and describe it as a series you are calling it "Sneakers" instead of "Sneaker".

[@fishy7901]

@Erich Addler oh God I definitely have done, GOT is done with me, I've already forgotten and moved on with my life :)

[@samellowery]

@@fishy7901 there's those ad hominem's when they can't argue with you your right 100%

[@TowDow3]

did you buy an unfinished book?

[@robynwilde]

I haven't seen the show or read the books. I'm just here to give my sympathies to all of you who will never get your ending. You deserved better.

[@gray2104]

Thx. Every bit helps 😂

[@Galaga_]

I have already assumed he will probably never finish Winds of Winter, and A dream of spring will never come to exist, it's easier that way

[@sillypuppy5940]

If he's still alive, he'll be working on Dream of Spring in his 80's. That will hardly speed him up.

[@LordofFullmetal]

I mean that way if he DOES finish them, it's a nice surprise. Plus you're saving yourself the disappointment in the likely scenario that he dies first.

[@rrcreation6722]

Dreams of spring will forever be a dream. And we will never know how it all ends..

[@benhaney5843]

Not many obese people live to see their 80s.

[@PittsburghSonido]

@@benhaney5843 Exactly. We're lucky he even started Winds of Winter. But we'll never get to see the ending. And that's fine. To me, that's like the perfect ending to a terrible, cruel, fictional secondary world.

[@PatrioticSam]

At what point, George RR Martin Apologists, can we start becoming impatient? How long must pass before we say "Okay, it's been too long now. Where's the book?" Because the only alternative is that you believe we are obligated to wait FOREVER. George reminds me of one of those KZbinrs who complain because their fans keep asking for their next review video. You are LUCKY if people want to consume your product, not the victim. Also, most people have never heard of the Silmarillion. They've heard of Lord of the RIngs and The Hobbit though. Can you guess why?

[@BType13X2]

Stop waiting period. I did and I have been much happier since then. I don't care about how the tv show ended and don't really think of GOT unless there is an update. Once a year I check see it's not done and move on.

[@PatrioticSam]

@Oyasumi Yes, I'm a whiney child because I insist on a book series 'being finished' before I buy it. Keep being a good boy, Oyasumi, and maybe George will throw you some napkin-scribblings later. I wouldn't count on it.

[@melgibsonafter5beers626]

So... GRRM is Spoony?

[@MaegnasMw]

@@PatrioticSam At no point can you start becoming impatient, and here's why. When JRRT FINISHED LotR the publisher, who BOUGHT and thence OWNED the material, decided to publish it in 3 books, one year apart from each other. When GoT, the book, hit the stores there was not an end to the story in sight; at which point you, the consumer of that work, had to decide "do I buy this ONE book now or wait for the completion of the whole series?". I am guessing you decided the former but WHERE did you see the PROMISE that there would be an ending? Now, I am not GRRM, obviously, I am not the publisher so I don't know what promises, if any, were made between THEM. I guess GRRM got paid for books delivered and once the series, such as it was/is became a huge hit, maybe got an advance or two to entice him to deliver the rest, maybe faster? There was NO promise between GRRM and the consumers though (yes, in the eyes of the publisher, and perhaps the creator too, we are chiefly that, CONSUMERS) that he will finish the work, let alone WHEN! YOU need to decide your action independently and not bitch about the fact that George is not your bitch - because he is NOT! I, for my part (because I see the question coming) have not yet read the books, have not yet a dime to watch the TV show. The latter will never change, unless they redo it, competently. The former will be examined IF (and as you see, that's a BIG "if") the series is finished (I too believe GRRM won't finish it, not even WoW, not because he does not care but because he does not know how). Call it what you will, that's me, I don't buy unfinished products (if I am a consumer then their work is a "product" and I treat it as such when they treat me like that). Why he does not know how to finish it? Simple! What was the main appeal to GRRM's high fantasy in the first place? What made his work so different and "fresh"? Subverting expectations, in a scale never done before. With the TV show "exposed" to the world, what can he subvert? His own plot outlines? His ultimate destination within the story? CAN HE DO THAT and still produce something worth your money?

[@carsonnesbit1178]

@@PatrioticSam well I mean as far as being a whiney child goes... well you said it not me ;)

[@Demonicdecay]

Season 8 broke my obsession with Game of thrones. My friends even my sister have lost all interest, i don't think George can salvage his series even if he wanted to at this point.

[@gs7828]

I think one can totally differentiate between the book and the tv show. Thing is, the book doesn’t exist yet as a finite entity and the public can only elaborate on what it got.

[@Snagabott]

The sad thing is that GRRM seems to have really wanted D&D to keep the show going for more than 8 seasons, but D&D wanted to rush the story along and just get it over with.

[@anthonygonzalez514]

Watch TheDragonDemands recent video on Daenerys on season 8. Season 8 is bullshit ( just like seasons 5-7) and it is pretty clear that the show has next to nothing to do with what GRRM is doing. The books are far different. Read them. And then read them again and again. They were designed for that

[@brannenoliv]

Season 8 honestly made me more excited for the books because it was so bad, is that weird?

[@voteZDLR]

His old excuse was "I used to travel so much, and it's hard to write in hotel rooms" OK now that you can't have done that the last few months what's your excuse

[@TorianTammas]

Lazyness and lack of competence to finish the job.

[@sillypuppy5940]

He made his house look like a hotel...

[@ripleb6261]

He’s literally said that he is moving faster now, unless you’re simply unwilling to believe anything the man says, or too devoted to being petulant children about it to entertain any alternative

[@brunolance2551]

He lost interest it seems

[@voteZDLR]

@@brunolance2551 I think that's the main thing is he's bored of his own creation. I don't think it helped that the TV show finished before he did -- and people hated the ending of the show. He's beginning to seriously consider the pros over the cons in not finishing because at the very least then people will be able to formulate their own endings and argue about it for the rest of their lives. He's made his fortune, and most importantly of all written himself into a hole he has no idea how to get out of anymore.

[@paulking4908]

His books being turned into a mini series may have been the worst thing that could have happened to his drive to finish his books.

[@marinusvonzilio9628]

I genuinely do not think Martin has thought this through, does he seriously think people will still buy and read his books after he is dead and buried? I mean, sure, there will always be a small core of die-hard fans who will buy and read and re-read ASoIaF until the end of time, even in its unfinished form, but they are not your average reader. The vast majority of readers expects and wants an ending to a series they are following. If this was a tiny but excellent work, and was left unfinished, sure, people would probably still read it since it would not take too much of their time. But nobody is going to take days upon weeks upon months (if one is a slow reader or just does not have a lot of free time) to read Martin's behemoth of a series only to be left hanging at the end. It is as if Martin does not realise his work will be forgotten and he will be reduced to a tiny footnote in the history of the fantasy genre as "that guy who lazed around and never finished the thing". No one in their right mind will invest so much time (to talk nothing of the emotional investment) into reading 4200 pages knowing they will get no resolution, no ending, no satisfaction. And as for that article, I disagree with basically the whole premise. I know this is an unpopular opinion even amongst many of the fans, and it goes without saying no writer will ever agree, but publishing your series and making it commercial *is* a contract. Just by the virtue of it being a series, you create expectations, and one of the basic ones is that the series in question will have an ending. It might be a bad ending, it might be a lukewarm one, or it might be brilliant, but no matter how satisfactory a resolution it provides the premise is there *will be* a resolution. This automatic expectation people have when they see a label "series" affects sales. If Martin wrote on the back cover of "A Game of Thrones" something along the lines of "by the by, I might never finish this", I suspect the sale numbers would not be quite as impressive. Basically he *sold* an expectation. For *actual money.* On that expectation people have *bought his books.* He made a *fortune* on this. *It is a contract, or at the very least a moral obligation.* And I will for a moment pretend I do not hold that opinion. I will pretend to agree with that article saying Martin does not owe me anything. Fine, he does not, for argument's sake. But leaving the series unfinished is still a pretty bad thing to do. He built interest and expectations and hype in millions of fans who invested money and a lot of time and emotions into following his series, and now he will leave them all hanging. Sure, he does not owe them anything, but it is still a lousy thing to do.

[@TorianTammas]

Martin simply does not get the strands together as he has no idea to finish it.

[@GreenTeaViewer]

you're asking whether people still read books by dead authors? I didn't read the rest of your essay after that start

[@marinusvonzilio9628]

@@GreenTeaViewer It was worded in the context of the video, which presumes the books will be left unfinished. I apologise if I overestimated your intelligence. I should have included that bit in the first sentence, you are right. Thank you for the input.

[@Dark-wy9yb]

@@GreenTeaViewer People read finished books of dead autors, no unfinished books or series. It is different thing. There are many unfinished books of famous writers ( like Dickens,Twain, Shakespeare) and almost no one except literature professors know about them. People don't like unfinished books.

[@Nindrhu]

It is, in my opinion, *completely unprofessional* for a person who is, at this point, a career author to not finish the series that made him his fortune. Once you start a *series* you are obligated to finish it. You are obligated to the *publisher* to finish it, if not the fans. I know full well that writers are not machines, but piss off Neil Gaiman. His reaction to that politely worded, humble question was downright pompous, what a pissy, petulant response from a writer who should be mature enough at this point not to act like some random internet troll. I have lost all respect for Neil Gaiman now. There's being an artistic personality, and then there's just completely ignoring your professional obligations as, I repeat, a *career author* dammit. Martin is not juggling another job while trying to finish this series. I would be a lot more lenient in my judgment of him if he was. But I would kill for the amount of limitless time Martin has to devote to his writing. I have lost all sympathy for him.

[@martinrheaume5393]

It's like seriously! How could he have thought he was almost done 5 years ago and he's still talking alike "I'm makin progress but still got alotta work to do..."

[@kavinskysmith4094]

at this point the game of thrones people should do the like the modders of videogames and write their own damn endings, as it cant be any worse than nothing.

[@JohnnyKaw11B]

@@kavinskysmith4094 Lol Can't be worse than season 8

[@motorcitymangababe]

Either hes rewriting or he has both books done and is dropping them in his will

[@jaqdraco]

I think he's just created such a complex storyline, he doesn't know how to finish it satisfactorily. Hell he's probably forgotten some of the ways he intended the arcs to go. Plus some of the ways the TV series went will have been influenced by him (let's not forget, he's supposed to have told them the end incase he died), and seeing the backlash may have made him go fuck I've gotta change what I'm doing, not easy when he's so far along Similar to Steve King who famously can't finish books well. But Mr Martin doesn't want to be labelled like that.

[@johncurry7225]

George, honestly, has an easy cop out here. George is great at writing horror, he could just turn it into a horror story, kill some characters here and there, and go out with a bang. Id rather have a shitty ending than no ending

[@johnthomas2485]

He killed off so many characters he doesn't know how to finish it.

[@13linkinparkluver13]

I really hope he doesn't change the ending, because Dany slowly becoming the villain isn't what made the ending bad, it was the execution.

[@nananina982]

The ending of the tv show was made up by D&D . This is proven since the original script for s8 was discovered . In it it says that Danny felt a need for revenge and went after the red keep after the bells were rung. On her way to the keep she burned lannister soldiers and ACCIDENTALLY setting off a cache of wildfire underneath the city which caused a chain reaction of wildfire and destroyed the city. Which sounds more close to GRRM ending than the shit they did.

[@Finians_Mancave]

This is why it's not a good idea to write a novel-series without a solid outline and a clear-cut ending. It's ironic that authors like GRRM and Patrick Rothfuss have experienced so much success with their respective series that the monumental (translated: UNREALISTIC) expectations of their readers have literally rendered these writers impotent and unable to finish their series!

[@ChrisLeuty]

When Gaiman told me that GRRM didn't work for me, I thanked him for the perspective and stopped paying GRRM. I've been a lot less disappointed for the last 10 years.

[@halo2d]

I stopped buying Gaimans stuff too. Because he’s wrong BOTH OF THEM WORK FOR US the customers who pay for the books. I’ll save my money for people who appreciate their customers (like Will Jordan) than those two asshats

[@leenaleewitch3731]

It is annoying when artists are talking down to us. We are not asking them to stop living and just write at the expense of their health...we just want to know what happened next in the storyline and we are willing to pay to read it...frankly if George decided to take care of his health, I would be happy for him and support his decision. But the guy is taking his fans for granted...we waited 10 years so we can wait longer. He is being paid for spinoff books and comic cons. To me, he has become an entitled idiot who thinks fans' money is his...and for this, I think he doesn't care at all.

[@ChrisLeuty]

@@halo2d I agree. They work for us. I fired them.

[@milenasoloduhina1726]

I have a feeling that GRRM lost his inspiration to write the story after the HBO series had surpassed his schedule. I can't imagine how depressing it is to have to write a story most of which (all the important bits) have already been spoiled and Ruined. I really don't blame him for wanting to write something else that is not tainted.

[@DarkLadyJade]

His own fault. He could have finished the series years ago. He didn't have to let HBO make a series based on his incomplete story.

[@nhmooytis7058]

Milena Soloduhina quit making excuses for him. Grow up.

[@stevem2323]

@Kyel ! The series is ruined, and in a very bad way.

[@GSDII1]

@Kyel !a bad ending does ruin a story tho... It ruins a franchise as well, less people are going to be interested in sequels and spinoffs now. Also, The journey was awful too towards the last few seasons. i was re-watching the series every chance I got years ago, until the diabolical couple end series ruined GOT completely. All that watching for no payoff. You can white-knight GRR Martin and crappy D&D all you want, it doesn't change the fact that GOT is ruined. You can enjoy watching someone make a cake, but if the end result tastes like shit, no-one is going to want to eat it, and they'll never trust your cooking again.

[@stevem2323]

@Kyel ! Of course it did, ending doesn't matter? Are you kidding me with this, two catastrophic seasons doesn't matter?

[@thschnick]

If George finishes his books, I will read them. I am not touching them until I am given an ending.

[@fuckoffgoogle1657]

You aren’t missing much. A game of thrones was good, everything that followed felt schizophrenic in comparison. Just read the first one and imagine the story ends with Ned and it’s fine though.

[@ededdandeddytv5164]

Straight up

[@Jack29245]

@@fuckoffgoogle1657 First time I've heard that opinion. I really enjoyed every book apart from A Feast For Crows but it even that one is really good if you read it and A Dance With Dragons at the same time using the canon chapter order.

[@saras123]

Vicky Illingworth oh no a feast is so good just give it a chance😊

[@Jack29245]

@@saras123 The problem with Feast is that so many POV characters are missing since the book focuses on others while happening at the same time as ADWD. So I don't like it by itself but if you read it with AWAD in chapter order, no problem with it.

[@davegrenier1160]

I would argue that there's an implied contract. When a person buys the first book of a serial novel, he expects that there will be a final book containing the story's end. He's investing in THE WHOLE STORY, and not just the story as far as the author is willing to write. The buyer is merely buying the story in installments, as the writer is writing them. The serial nature of the publication in no way absolves the writer of an obligation to finish the story. Are there writers who think a single-volume book that has an unfinished story is a salable commodity? Serial novels sell on the implied promise of a COMPLETE STORY.

[@StudentAlephNull]

I agree. I'm still annoyed at Barbara Hambly for not finishing the Sun-Cross series, which started out to be three books and never got finished. After two the story is left hanging in the air. Apparently, she found she could make more money doing vampires and never came back. Personally, I have (except for some affection for Buffy) no interest in vampires. In any event, after buying and reading a number of her books I've given up on her. While Hambly is not on the same level of significance as Martin, it's another example of readers being left hanging. Grenier is right in saying that an author who starts a story assumes an obligation to his or her readers to finish it.

[@m.m.1301]

Finally somebody who makes sense and stops pretending writers are magical supreme ubermensh who shouldn't be made accountable for their [lack of] work

[@MrLolguy93]

Remember when people called GoT the pinnacle of writing? Talk about wasted potential

[@nyos22]

Well Malazan has replaced asoiaf for a long time now as my favorite fanatasy series. It's great, it's finished and the author is still putting out new works set in the same universe, but AFTER he finished the main series. edit: I'm on my 5th read of Malazan right now, couldn't be bothered to start asoiaf again unless complete. And fuck the whole "fan entitlement" bs. I'm getting sick and tired of this. All those popular works would not be popular without the fans! Sure the creators are the ones making them, but the fans are ultimately who allow them to do so. If not for the fans, getting themselves invested in the work, eagerly awaiting the next one, those artists would not be able to do what they truly enjoy. It's a symbiotic relationship and if one party stops to provide, both end up worse for wear.

[@JazzAK6969]

So spot on. I wish there was a super like button. Malazan Book of the Fallen is the greatest fantasy series of all time. I've gone through it twice and look forward to doing it again. I mean can any character that GRRM has written hold a candle to Kruppe, or Quick Ben, or Fiddler? You're also absolutely right about the "fan entitlement" bs. People wouldn't be so upset if he hadn't set the expectations that he would finish. This is what makes Steven Erikson the superior author in my opinion. There are hundreds of plots and stories within the series but he had a plan how to end it and executed it without allowing other books in the world to take away from the main story. If GRRM doesn't finish I hope someone like Erikson will finish his work.

[@JRRob3wn]

Need to keep in mind that the last two books he’s released were actually supposed to be one book, but got too long and had to be split into two. So, basically he’s released ONE book in the last 20 years. Prior to that he released three books in four years. Clearly he’s lost his passion for the project and will sadly never complete it.

[@glebdanilov5703]

Or ... Or its maybe fucking hard to write story in a way everyone stop crying ? Yes its taking long but look that seasons 6-8 and answer youself do you really wanna rush that complex story

[@iridescent_skies]

Глеб Данилов I’m sorry but you can’t justify 10 years with not wanting to rush. Especially since it’s a complex story. The man had to have some form of outline and direction. The story should have been there and then he just had to expand and polish. Either he has no passion or he didn’t like his original end and had to backtrack. Those are the only two excuses I would except. Be a bit angry at the author who left it unfinished? Yes, but I’d take the excuses.

[@justarandomgirlvx3578]

@@iridescent_skies I think he just wrote what he had fun with. Winds of Winter is a hard book and he is freaking old. We don't know... maybe his mental health isn't at the best state, you know? He also writes other good stuff. And if he just lost ideas

[@nickbrough8335]

The difference with the Silmarillion, was that Tolkien wrote it for himself and it was a mechanism to hang his invented languages and cultures around, which were as or perhaps more important to him. His son has managed to pull together the story from his notes and then prepared more detailed and expansive versions of particular sub-plots within the Silmarillion, which (alongside much else) has turned out to much of his life's work. George set out to tell a single story and published 5/7ths of it already and now appears to have fallen out with the entire thing and allowed his imagination to fill in the wider history of the Targaryens in Westeros. I imagine he may have extensive notes an ideas on earlier history and the magic aspects of his Good/Evil (gods ?) saga which he has used to deepen the mystery around his story. I hope he does finish it. and tell it the way he wants to. Unless he burns all his material, someone will be paid to finish this saga as there is potentially too much money involved not to. When completed, it has the potential to rival anything ever told by anyone and become a classic alongside the few other 20th century stories which will survive into the 22nd century and beyond. Uncompleted, it will just be something that future generations will see as a wasted opportunity. Unfinished, the rest of his GoT work and all his other work will vanish into irrelevance and be forgotten anyway. It's chance few of us can ever have. Few people get the chance to walk in eternity and even fewer achieve it.

[@agonsfitness7308]

Here's the fucked up part, he has said that once he dies they should burn his notes. There won't be a Christopher Martin.

[@RoninDave]

Exactly. And the thing about the Silmarillion for hardcore fans it satisfies in given back story to the LOTR but the casual reader doesn't need it as the LOTR is enough on its own to enjoy. Martin has given us a Silmarillion of sorts in and outside of the narrative but he still hasn't given us a LOTR ie a completed epic. "Uncompleted, it will just be something that future generations will see as a wasted opportunity. Unfinished, the rest of his GoT work and all his other work will vanish into irrelevance and be forgotten anyway." Very true. Future readers can always pick up LOTR and enjoy a completed narrative which they have been doing so for decades after its publication but who in the future (or even now) is going to pick up a 5 maybe 6 book series that was never finished with mysteries never answered and plotlines never concluded? I think publishers and movie/tv execs will think twice on putting their money into unfinished projects. I mean who's going to buy GOT DVDs now knowing how it ends so shitty?

[@skylx0812]

I was fine with Frank Herbert dropping dead after Chapterhouse. But then his son came along, and with that terrible scifi writer, churned out abominations. When Martin dies be glad there'll nothing left go on. More than like likely someone will come along and claim they found other notes.

[@danielgreen2788]

the nerve to compare his bestsellers with the work of Tolkien, you need an ego the size of HBO plus to achieve that

[@Foebane72]

Sorry, Nick Brough, but Martin is NO Tolkien, he's a fucking JOKE compared to Tolkien.

[@PajamaFeet]

“Think about the publishers who are held prisoner by these writers” is the worst take lmao.

[@cadenlorenzo3345]

For almost all authors it’s the other way around

[@braxxian]

For better or worse the show finished people with this story. Book purists may feel different but the ending of GOT will now always be tied to the show, not the books.

[@LordofFullmetal]

Publishers would treat writers as literal slave labour if they could. In fact, they USED to until quite recently in human history. If anything, it's fantastic that we live in a world where we don't have to rely so much on them anymore.

[@thegreatskinkpriest8104]

I think he meant more popular authors like George who take a long time to finish their books. In that regard he’s mostly right, but I see what you mean.

[@TechTehScience]

@@thegreatskinkpriest8104 Publishers often make ridiculous amounts of money. Of course they do their part in getting the works of an author to a wider audience, but they tend to take huge cuts, and often force authors to get more out if a following is created, taking a lot of the art out of the job. Even with big authors: the publishers are already making a ton of money off of a popular book series. They'll finish it when they finish it. The publishers aren't some impoverished fellows need a book out to get a meal.

[@ThorOdinson]

He’s never going to finish these books. It’s pretty apparent that he’s completely lost interest in the series, and I can think of a few reasons why: 1) The multiplication of plots. Before he started I’m certain he had an idea of how he wanted to end the series, which we’ll call Point Z. But as time went on, he started adding dozens and dozens of additional plots as he went, and he did so with no clue whatsoever how they would end. So now he can’t just go to Point Z and end his story. He has to resolve all those other plots first. He has to resolve Doran Martell’s schemes, the Great Northern Conspiracy, (f)Aegon, etc. 2) HBO already spoiled what he was most excited to write about. Think about how long he sat on the Jon Snow reveal, and at the end of the day, he didn’t get to do the reveal. The show did it. That must be like a gut punch to him. And Daenerys going crazy at the end? I’ve been certain for years that was his endgame (although I imagine he would’ve done it was better than Benioff and Weiss). Not only did they do it first, too, but they did it poorly, and tons of people are soured on that ending and won’t care how he writes it. Between those two things, I think he’s absolutely gutted, and probably stopped giving a shit once the show started to go past his books. All in all, the existence of the tv show is the WORST possible thing that could have ever happened to that book series. I wish Game of Thrones, the HBO series, had never existed. 😡

[@TheAkwarium]

the show wouldn't have spoiled anything if he would have just finished the damn series in the first place though, he's had enough time. It sure as hell made him rich though, because if it wasn't for the show the series would never have become that popular

[@NoahRankin59]

If he finished TWOW in time for Season 6 though, he would have been able to debut a lot of those reveals. And that still would have given him 5 years to write it. Not to mention it probably would’ve improved the last 2 seasons of the show to have that additional book even if it wasn’t the last one

[@Maxoule22]

The hell you talking about? Grrm can write Daenerys ending just fine

[@MapleLeaf2501]

@@Maxoule22 Written well or not, its going to have an association with just upsetting it was for the television series fans. And the fan feedback from a Daenerys going mad, despite the potential foreshadowing from moments he wrote himself and was translated into the television series was...less than stellar as well.

[@Maxoule22]

@@MapleLeaf2501Book readers know damn well where Daenerys is headed. From a point of view of people who only watched the show, Daenerys's downfall was rushed, nonsensical, and anti-character. The book version fo Daenerys is clearly at risk of turning like her father, there is no ambiguity there. If people start reading from Winds of Winter without having read the rest of the serie, of course they will get the same frustration when their beloved mother of dragons turns out to be one of the 50% of Targaryens that are genetically mad. Edit : we also need to consider that GRRM still has 2 MASSIVE books coming. Probably the biggest bricks of ASOIAF. He has PLENTY and PLENTY of pages to turn Daernerys mad in a way we will understand and still possibly like her no matter her downfall. Who knows how much treason she will suffer ? Will all her beloved friends abandon her ? Something WILL make her Mad, she wont become mad because "hey, im mad now"

[@SubliminaIMessages]

this is what happens when you take a series that was meant to be a trilogy, and then try to stretch it out into 7 books.

[@lesbroster1802]

Honestly if you dissect the first books, you'll see this series never could have been trilogy. Its just too ambitious for that.

[@rextucker3184]

It was all about the story until the story was celebrated by millions, then it became all about the celebration. George lost his self-discipline amid all the wild adulation and constant partying; it left him empty of idea's and the motivation to bring them to life. The success of the TV series was more of a disease than a panacea. He will never recover from it.

[@up2specks978]

Every time I hear someone with a net worth of 100 million plus talk about having a bad day it’s an automatic eye roll.

[@kavinskysmith4094]

if I was there in person and interviewing him I would be tempted to say Sir, I'm having a bad day too, can I have your watch or maybe a coupe grand to make myself feel better, like if you dont care about it and dont need it lol

[@up2specks978]

“It’s so tough to sit around in my cabin in the mountains all day trying to type.” Oh you mean while the entire country is stressed out and torn apart on every possible subject imaginable? Yea tell us how tough it is George! The whole world pities you. Every person who is somewhat famous in times like these should just shut up. Normal people are the ones with the bad days. Not these pampered idiots.

[@mrbouncelol]

Mental health strikes everyone but lets be real the dude has enough money to pay models to play with his balls for the rest of his life

[@immortaljanus]

Me at 2011: "God, I hope my books become so popular as GRRM's some day..." Me at 2020: "Well..."

[@antipattern0]

My god i totally forgot what happened in Dance with Dragons.

[@ilteschio8244]

dude is set for life with all the rights for merch and show, he has no motivation whatsoever on finish the books.

[@asopher]

I wish his legacy meant something to him. Oh well, money talks I guess SMH 🤦‍♂️

[@MassetiOfficial]

If Brandon Sanderson could finish the Wheel of Time we can always hope that-if it comes to this-Joe Abercrombie can finish A Song of Ice and Fire.

[@kevinmasalangoy5028]

Hey. Im just curious what do you meant by Brandon could finish the wheel of time? Is it like the orifinal author wasn't able to finish it and somebody finished it?

[@DynastyHeroes]

@@kevinmasalangoy5028 Yes the original author of Wheel of Time Robert Jordan died before he could finish the series.

[@ignaciotaborda6538]

Not likely, i've heard Martin said he won't let anybody take charge of his books, even if they are unfinished by the time of his death. So even if there's an author with the right qualities and mindset to finish ASoIaF in a satisfactory way, still it's not likely for George to let the books in it's hands.

[@MassetiOfficial]

@@ignaciotaborda6538 yes…but that's until he dies, the fans pressure the editor, the estate wants more money, some TV channel is interested in having the books finished so they can have a reboot of the series and correct the mess… I don't know. A lot can happen and (once he dies) it's not up to him anymore. I really hope he doesn't die in the near future and finishes the series. I'm a big fan of his work and what he did to fantasy in general and I would love to see HIS vision for this story.

[@kalessin4942]

Robert Jordan had also said that he wouldn't let anyone else finish his series if he died, but he changed his mind when he found out that he was dying. Fortunately, he then did an excellent job making sure that whoever finished the series had what they needed to do it right, and his wife found the perfect author to do it in Brandon Sanderson. Sanderson is not only an excellent writer, but he studied Jordan's style when working on improving his writing, so his style is similar to Jordan's (albeit usually not as verbose). So, Sanderson was able to match Jordan's style so well that if no one had spilled the beans that someone else had finished it, most people wouldn't have noticed any difference. It's absolutely amazing how well the situation with WoT turned out given Jordan's unfortunate passing. As such, it's highly unlikely that the same would happen with SoIaF, and unless Martin realizes that he's going to have to pass the torch and takes the steps to make that work, whatever anyone else did to finish it wouldn't necessarily be anything like what Martin had planned. And even if by some miracle, he actually did properly prepare for the torch to be passed on, the odds are poor that whoever finished it would be able to match his writing style anywhere near as well as Sanderson did with Jordan. It may very well be that SoIaF will be finished by someone else if Martin doesn't get off his duff and get it done, but if it's going to be done right, it almost certainly has to be Martin who finishes it.

[@RealGateGuardian]

I'm betting we WILL get The Winds of Winter before George croaks. However we'll NEVER see the A Dream of Spring.

[@RealGateGuardian]

@My names Jeff sounds right

[@leonerd1763]

That's the point, it's a dream of Spring, the book doesn't actually need to exist cause it's a dream

[@stevepalpatine2828]

I'll take that bet. I got 100 bucks says he'll never even publish Winds of Winter. He doesn't know how to finish it. The story got away from him and he hasn't got the talent to finish it. He can't come out and admit that because the second he admits he's given up the ones he has written won't be sold because why bother starting a story without an ending, plus his publishers will likely be annoyed at him for breach of contract.

[@Lfcsweden-n5m]

He’s never going to end it. He gave away the ending to HBO and he noticed how everybody dissed it. He now believes it’s better to not write anything so people will always speculate and say; “The true GRRM ending would have been so much better”. How hard can it be? There are about 10 different ending written by other people in the web that’s much more satisfying then George’s own ending. Just steal some ideas from em and finish it and hold the head up high. As of now george will be remembered as the man who didn’t finish his books.

[@TheAkwarium]

you're right, I think people give him too much credit and expect him to save them from the shit show that was the show finale, but the truth is - George's ending will probably be pretty much the same, only the way to get there will be different and longer, because of the book format (if he ever decides to actually finish the series)

[@nicholascerniglio7618]

It's how you get to the ending. In the show Dumb and Dumber couldn't put it together cause they dont know what they were doing and so they rushed it. Dany need more then 2 fudging episodes to turn mad plus Jon Snow was robbed from a decent ending because Dumb and Dumber wanted to subvert expectations.

[@Lfcsweden-n5m]

Smug Anime Girl yes, becuase those youtubers who guessed the ending for game of thrones and other stuff will sue RRM. Do you even know what it takes to do that? If I kill if Arya with a spoon and the guy I stole the idea from killed of Arya with a dagger he had 0 chance of getting any cash in a legal claim. Stop beeing a stuck up, call it inspiration if you want. Either way who cares, the big man will never finish it anyway.

[@LuisHernandez-pm4yv]

@@nicholascerniglio7618 Jon might've the same ending in the book. One thing is sure though, he's not gonna be king of the seven (nor six) kingdoms.

[@getmotivated1707]

He's been such a troll with it all, seemingly not giving a shit about the people invested in the story. Sometimes I think about all the people who must have died already while waiting for these books, and it sucks. I'm not entitled to jack from GRRM, but he is constantly saying how it is on the way. Stop saying you are writing it if you are not, thats all. It's starting to feel like he has no intention of finishing TWOW, but is happy to dangle it like a carrot to keep us all invested in every offshoot project he gets himself involved in.

[@thewanderingartists]

I heard he's also writing for a game called Elden Ring

[@earlyandoften]

This is my issue. It’s like everything else in life: when you make a commitment to people, follow through. Especially when there’s money involved. Or be forthright immediately when you come to the realization you may not deliver. He’s literally stringing everyone along until he dies and is absolved of the expectation and it’s gross.

[@nhmooytis7058]

get motivated he doesn’t care about the books or fans, I heard him speak in 2005 and he was a creep then.

[@thewanderingartists]

@@nhmooytis7058 creep ? How ?

[@nhmooytis7058]

the wanderingartists already answered that.

[@Scriobh]

He's a lazy author. End of. He's now absorbed with his own brilliance and it shows.

[@linkinlinkinlinkin654]

Not at all. All his books took long enough to write. This one in particular took too long but he was not on hiatus in between. He wrote other books, produced for the show, attended every fucking con. I mean, he is not a productive writer but he is far from lazy. He is one of those guys who wants it to be perfect in their mind before they even start writing anything

[@theproofistrivial7677]

linkinqueens97 he’s probably the kind of guy who follows every narrative tangent that comes up during the creative process. I highly doubt he has any idea how to finish the story without major gaping plot holes, now that it’s gotten so complicated. He’s admitted that many of his fans know more about his story than he does. There was an admittedly less talented manga writer who said whenever he gets stuck he just makes a new character and something tells me GRRM is that kind of writer.

[@wolfgangusbanana93]

@@theproofistrivial7677 What's the name of the mangaka?

[@Scriobh]

​@@theproofistrivial7677 That's a good point - he's probably very easily distracted. I'd also never considered that he keeps adding characters because he's literally lost the plot.

[@Scriobh]

Now the flip side of this is that I am an author, so I know how much work is involved in creating, plotting, writing, etc. The problem that RR has is the same many "literary" writers share/are almost proud of - they think their muse is missing, so that gives them an excuse to goof off and wait for "it" to come back. It has f**k all to do with muse though - you sit down and write. I completed my first three novels in roughly 9 months, writing 1,000 words per day. I did that while holding down a full-time job and doing some freelance writing to pay the bills. The man is absurdly lazy. Period. 1,000 words per day (2 hours work max) would have him complete each novel in a year. Christ, he's spent more time blogging about not writing than actually writing at this stage.

[@vyr01]

i love how grrm and other authors have said that they owe the fans nothing, that the fans are lucky to receive the magnificence that is their works, when they would not make a living without the fans

[@taragnor]

Yeah it's how you know he's not going to finish the books, because he's basically given the middle finger to the fans.

[@AN-sm9ju]

Do artist create for others, or do artist create for themselves?

[@samellowery]

@Rune Kristensen correction the fans paid for part of a product with the expectation that the rest would be forthcoming if they knew he wouldn't finish how many would of started?

[@reptomicus]

@Rune Kristensen The fans don't make the author but they keep the work alive. Without readers, the work will be forgotten. At that point the work might as well not exist.

[@waltercomunello121]

"Either you stop writing as a good writer, or keep writing long enough for you to become a bad writer."

[@thewildcard600]

funny how "the dark knight rises" also was a letdown in comparison to "the dark knight"

[@ayushmanrajawat2828]

@@thewildcard600 Was still a lot better than the entire MCU crap

[@CATDHD]

@@ayushmanrajawat2828 hear hear

[@joemilton3273]

The Z-Nation scene where a zombified George Martin was chained to a desk autographing books was very funny.

[@jimstormcrow]

Speaking as both a fan and an academic, LOTR was the story, the Silmarillion was a formalisation of the history out of which it arose.

[@Tenacious4Life00]

You nailed it.

[@Tenacious4Life00]

I have to say. While I agree that Mr. Martin is nobody's bitch. He has made a promise to his fans to finish the series by starting the series. He has a obligation to his fans, he has an obligation to his publishing house, he has a obligation to book sellers, truck drivers, HBO and anyways else who would make a dime off of his work. Jim Butcher recently realized this and now we are getting two books in a year. Jim called it adulting and I couldn't agree more.

[@vaxes]

I think The TV series is what has caused this issue. GRRM clearly had issues with the way it was being told and I think those issues turned to frustrations and that turned into hate. How could you not have a crisis of consciousness when you suddenly hate something created from your works.

[@horace6851]

especially that as long as show had books to base their story on, it was actually so much better than the books. Cut the unnecessary crap, streamlined the characters... Martin has great ideas, especially for character arcs, but is a terrible writer and it shows. And now he can see it too. He should be siting at a fireplace telling stories to group of people as bards of old times. He has great imagination, great people observation skills, but unfortunately terrible writing skills.

[@judohunter1]

Nope. He had wrote episodes, talks timeline w hbo prior to even the series filming, and even gave them outlines for how the series is to end in case he were to die before the books are done (as even hbo didn’t trust him to finish the books). So no waxing poetic about him having issues w how the show was, as it’s all directly his doing to his own laziness.

[@ComradeCommissarYuri]

judohunter1 yeah he left after season 3 which is where the decline started!! The Publisher forced him to go back to writing the books as otherwise they would have ended their contract with him An that small Decline eventually became season 8!!!

[@miketacos9034]

A Dream of Spring will never come. That's the point. Everybody will die in the Winds of Winter.

[@Ninjacatlover]

At least that would be a ending and still better then got finale. If a dream of spring can’t be written then he should just let the night king win and as you suggest let the rest day. That grim ending would at least reflect the disappointment of the fans

[@Hassohappa]

This whole attitude is insane. Telling people that authors have no obligation to finish the story they start to tell is a good way to get people to stop buying any book in a series until it is finished. How many book series do you think there will be if people stop buying unfinished stories and wait until the last book is written? The idea there's no gray area between "the author has zero obligation to finish a book series he starts" and "the author is required to work 16 hour days 7 days a week until the series is done" is absurd. All these authors speaking from a privileged place where they all ready made all the money they'll ever need are just poisoning the well for any new author that wants to write a series. Just imagine, "Oh sorry Shad, you have to write the entirety of Chronicles of Everfall before anyone will buy a single copy of a single book because writers-turned-activists like Patrick Rothfuss and George RR Martin already made their money and couldn't be bothered."

[@xelikus]

I mean, similarly I’d consider being afraid of not liking the stories ending (or lack thereof in this case as I consider the concepts to be more or less the same) making you unable to enjoy the rest of the content that you actually are able to read and enjoy to be equally insane, at least if there’s no ending you can create the ending you want in your head instead of being sour at a bad ending lol

[@TheAkwarium]

imagine if JK Rowling had the same attitude, the last Harry Potter book would probably still be unfinished to this day

[@Rainbowhawk1993]

I’m about halfway through A Feast for Crows right now. From how this story is structured, I can say George made the mistake of making the story too big for its own good. You can write your story organically as much as you want, but doing so can make you run the risk of writing yourself into a corner and losing focus. I’ve yet to read A Dance with Dragons or watch season 2-8, but I can tell George made the mistake of introducing too many characters that drag the story to a crawl. Lessons I’ve learned from reading this far: - it’s good to have 3 Dimensional Characters drive the story. Just be sure to keep the number of characters concise (The only characters I’ve cared about: Jon, Arya, Sansa, Teryion, Danaris, Sam and Jamie. Theon, Davous and the new characters in AFFC just drag the story down for me.) -Have the ending in mind but have wiggle room to have the characters go in directions that make sense (Example: Season 3 of the Dragon Prince. Ezran abandons his journey to become king while Rayla and Callum get together even when it wasn’t planned from the beginning.) -Keep chapters concise and avoid bloat.

[@RoninDave]

Talking about painting into corners, I think Martin unwittingly painted himself into one at the beginning which he can't get out of namely the White Walkers/Others. It's ironic because they kick off the series and serve as the main underlying threat which will undermine all the petty squabbles for power but as the story progresses they get progressively sidelined not just in the current narrative but also in the historical background of the world as it unfolds. It's like Martin kind of forgot about them as he got more interested in the historical elements of his world - the Andal invasions, the Targaryean conquest, Robert's Rebellion, the various empires in Essos but the White Walkers have little to nothing to do with that vast history. They are interlopers at best. They appeared once 10000 years ago and only in Westeros. After a generation they were defeated and a huge wall put up with a knightly order to guard it. Other than a Night Watch commander going rogue a few centuries later nothing else happened with the White Walkers, the Wall, or the Night Watch. The Andals arrived about 2000 years after and the Targaryeans about 5000 after that and for some reason they decided to maintain the Night Watch tradition despite having no connection with those old stories that have somehow survived for 10k years. In contrast with LOTR Sauron had not been seen for over 3000 years in Middle Earth. The watch over Mordor we are told slumbered after a thousand or two thousand years. His stories were dim legends but they were remembered because he had a much bigger impact on the history of Middle Earth and the main narrative of LOTR. He made the rings of power, he corrupted Numenor causing its destruction, he killed a number of heroes, and a huge coalition of elves, men, and dwarves was raised to defeat him. After his fall, his servants most notably the Witch King caused trouble in the world. So even though he had been gone a long time it was both reasonable that people would become lax in their guard and yet still remember a figure so prominent in their history. With the White Walkers they only appeared once and only in Westeros and only the First Men fought them. Yet people remember them even if only to dismiss them. The idea that they'd be remembered at all by people who had no ancestral connection with them seems a bit farfetched. I get that Martin wanted them to be far in the background but a looming threat however I think he put them too far in the background both in the current narrative and in his world's history as I pointed out that they really seem to come from a different story and world entirely. I think this is one of the problems with the show which the writers realized as they got further along and not having the talent panicked wanting to end the show quickly. D&D deserve a lot of criticism but asking them to mesh two almost completely different stories with little connection - the return of an ancient evil and the rise of a hero of prophesy with a story of political machinations for power, the return of an exile heir, and the return of dragons into the world and their impact on the power struggle - was too much as they probably realized Martin himself didn't really have a solid resolution to the White Walkers: their origins, their purpose, and their ultimate defeat. This is why everything seemed so wonky from Season 7 onward when those two storylines collided - Daenerys hellbent on taking the throne then suddenly sideswiped by a Northerner babbling about ice zombies way up north which if Danny hadn't bothered with never would have gotten a dragon in order to cross the Wall. They could have dealt with Cersei first and at their leisure turn everyone towards the White Walkers or let them wander around north of the wall till they got bored. The fact that Martin hasn't really commented or criticized the way the White Walker plot was handled kind of tells me he still doesn't really have a concrete idea what he wants to do with them. I think if Martin could travel back in time, he'd write out the White Walkers and the Wall or at least make them more prominent in the history of his world (but most likely he'd delete them).

[@benstannard3574]

You make a good point here. I’m reading the Wheel of Time series at the moment and whilst there is so much to love, it’s size is one of its weaknesses. There are too many minor characters that don’t get proper development and there are whole storylines that feel pretty slow and irrelevant to the main story. These sorts of problems seem endemic to epic fantasy as a whole and very few authors manage to avoid them.

[@RoninDave]

@jiji Ha I didn't say they were mentioned just once. I said that they only appeared once in the history of Martin's world around 8-10000 years ago and they never re-appeared. There was a slight connection to them when a Nightwatch commander went rogue worshipping them a few centuries later but that as well was a significant time before the Andals arrived, a thousand years or so. The point is the White Walkers really don't seem to fit narratively into the world they are threatening. It's like they are an outside story element from another story universe. Martin has spent far more time fleshing out the histories of other cultures and kingdoms that have far more connections to each other. The White Walkers and the Wall seem more like half-abandoned story ideas that Martin reluctantly returns to. D&D actually did a better job of keeping the Walkers more in the forefront especially with Hardhome but when it came to meshing that storyline with that of Daenerys, the dragons, and the Cersei's Machiavellian plotting it fell apart due to there being so little connection between those main story lines.

[@TheNemisisx]

A Feast for Crows can drag on quite a bit as well but a dance with dragons really picks ups and will have you on your ever of the seat. I can understand where your coming from though.

[@ddfstar7588]

I love affc

[@shapescolours8105]

I don’t get why he wrote so much extra stuff and just never finish the core series. I’d rather have the core books than all the extra tbh

[@slart1bartfast587]

Because he is a master at opening up new threads in a story and letting his world ever expand. He seemingly doesn't have a clue how to bring the threads back together. So yeah, we probably will get Winds of Winter in a couple of years maybe 2, maybe 4, who knows, and he will open up a bunch of new threads. A dream of spring, however, will never come due to his age and eventual death, and then we will all be so sad he never had a chance to finish it... Compare to that Frank Herberts Dune. He died after the 6th book but left extensive notes to his son, who picked up a sci-fi-writer, Kevin Anderson, and put out a final 7th and 8th book (Herbert meant for a 7th, but they decided to make it two due to it's size). Sure the two books are lackluster in comparison to Franks Herberst writing style, but at least he cared about his story and the readers getting the ending. Same with Robert Jordan and the "Wheel of Time"-Series.

[@benhaney5843]

With the exception of the Dunc and Egg stuff, you can't really call that encyclopedia stuff writing. I bet he just gave someone else his notes and they edited that shit together without him. Don't think it took much time away from the core stuff. Dunc and Egg, a little but he hasn't written that stuff for an even longer amount of time. .

[@benhaney5843]

Stuff

[@jongerbergerdecht5579]

I lost track of all the Jon's, Edric's, and Jeynes in the ASOIF books.....

[@SherbertLomon]

Because it seems he’s no longer excited about his core story, and writing a book that complex while not caring that much anymore must feel like an impossible task. Hopefully his interest is sparked again.

[@vrth0mas]

Rule 1 of writing a good story: Promise and Payoff GRRM: I subvert tropes

[@jinxtheunluckypony]

There’s a difference between expecting Martin to work like a machine and wanting him to do his job. If anyone in any other profession spent a full decade procrastinating they be fired.

[@asopher]

I mean, unless they worked in politics 🤣🤦‍♂️

[@jinxtheunluckypony]

Alan Sopher You ain’t wrong...

[@Matpeixelegal]

That's kinda unfair, since he published books related to the ASOIAF series in the meantime. I don't care about waiting, it's far better than having a disaster like season 8

[@thevirtuoso8362]

Well at least we have a knight of the seven kingdoms

[@bisque6448]

So? That's not a regular job, and that's kind of the point. It's a creative endeavor.

[@Bergerons_Review]

So I buy four books and he says: "Now you are excited about the story so I leave you blue balled." Thanks, George!

[@liaml.e.5964]

Seems like something he'd do

[@AJNpa80]

Wishing he'd hire Sanderson as a consultant while he's healthy, to let him see his outlines, method and material, so we get the most George ending possible. Call it an insurance policy, yet maybe, just maybe, it won't come to that and something might rub off.

[@mtverv]

He would never hire Sanderson anyway. Sanderson is the example GRRM used to describe the 2 types of writers GRRM believes exist. GRRM calls himself a “gardener” which basically boils down to he makes a bunch of shit up as he goes along and it’s only brought to any semblance of sense in editing versus Sanderson who he calls an “architect”. Sanderson outlines and plans out everything in his story, including how it will end and then simply writes out the details. Sanderson is the very last writer GRRM would bring in to finish his story...

[@torelarsenn]

@@mtverv Sanderson consciously plans his story while George dreams his story, no way Sanderson can complete such a vast imaginative story, with all those fully fleshed characters. He will write down his "pros" and "cons" to different endings in some excel table, haha. No, I would rather have no ending at all.

[@stellaartois8853]

@James S Sanderson being trusted with writing dialogue for Tyrion, Varys or Littlefinger, save dialogue for ANYONE in this series? That makes me feel sick.

[@nicholascerniglio7618]

It's just his legacy that will be tainted. I'm already ticked off he didn't finish the books before the show ended and we had to rely on dumb and dumber for an ending that ruined a great story but if he doesn't finish at all then that very ending will be the only one.

[@MonkeyBall2453]

GRRM: "do not give any credence to any of the click-bait websites that like to parse every word of my posts" Nerdrotic: immediately spends 10 minutes parsing in his click-bait video.

[@dhLotan]

He clearly meant anyone who would over analyze his statement and/or attempt to derive false meaning from his statement.

[@RanMouri82]

@@dhLotan Exactly. And Gary here said nothing incorrect.

[@davidandrews2972]

I've long since accepted that I will never see then written end of this story. I still hold out faint hope for Rothfuss, but that's fading fast too. Lesson learned: I will only buy complete series, unless I trust the author's work ethic (e.g. Brandon Sanderson).

[@vyr01]

Did you read Rothfuss' blog, way back when the first book came out there was a post that said he was basically finished with all three books, he just wanted to revise them, and 9 years later...... seems similar to grrm ......

[@Phreddy666]

Way back in the dim dark 1990's I began reading The Wheel of Time series. This was a glorious fantasy series with incredible stories. Somewhere around the middle of this series Robert Jordan got lost in world building and added some seriously clunkers to his up until then brilliant series. It lagged, it hurt, it almost sucked. Then when Jordan finally got the story back on track, he died. There was much wailing and gnashing of teeth. Thankfully Jordan foresaw his passing and crafted the notes necessary for Brandon Sanderson to brilliantly complete the series. Why the history lesson? Well it's because of something George RR Martin did promise. Yes Martin in not my bitch but he does owe me something. He owes me the fulfillment of the promise he made when Wheel of time was in its doldrums. Gerge promised to be the Anti-Jordan. He promised a book series that would take 4 volumes. Then expanded to 6, but no more. Martin promised that A Song of Ice and Fire would not stretch on forever. Based on that promise I recommended ASOIAF to others who had sworn off starting a series until the final volume has been published. I told them Martin would not do that because he promised not too. Oops. I'm sure the paltry loss of my contribution to his coffers will not affect Mr Martins bottom line. After all as was so aptly pointed out, he is not writing for me but for himself. However any artist requires an audience and I don't spend my money on entertainment for them but for myself. The end result here is that despite the brilliant finish to the WOT, it and ASOIAF have soured me on long series. I will not spend another cent on any George RR Martin product. I will never again buy a volume in a series until the final volume is in print. If that means in never read another piece of fiction and magnificent as the early WOT or early ASOIAF, so be it. There are several such series out there and the authors of such are welcome to continue writing for themselves as is their right. However just as George RR Martin et al are not my bitches, neither am I theirs. Hand me a finished product and don't bother me until you have one.

[@DLAJC]

2 more years has passed and still no signs of the book