George RR Martin on How the Show Changed the Jaime vs Ned Scene

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A Song of Ice and Fire / Game of Thrones Author George R. R. Martin on how the Show Changed the Ned Stark and Jaime Lannister encounter from the Books
Full Interview: • GEORGE R.R. MARTIN | M...

[@TheGmdMaster]

I personally think this change makes more sense for Jaime's character. Jaime idolises ser arthur dayne so naturally he will want to cross swords with the man that beat him.

[@vipset87]

dont talk about yourself in 3rd person kingslayer

[@Manudyne]

Agree

[@TheGmdMaster]

@@vipset87 just let me avenge him in peace!

[@luckyluis1203]

But if Jaime had injured Ned he would've taken him as prisoner

[@heiral7773]

Ned never beat Dayne. Dayne was stabbed in the back by his friend.

[@Syryu]

I don't mind this change. In the book, Jaime doesn't fight at all and let's his men do the work. The show allows us to see Jaime in action and finally get a sort-of payoff for the Ned/Jaime feud that the show was building up. The one detail I wish they still included was Ned being found clutching Jory's body.

[@saltyninja]

yeah, we don't see nearly enough of jamie fighting in the show tbh. OR the books. you mostly hear everyone talk about how skilled he is. then of course he loses his hand and we don't get too many good fight scenes from him after that besides the bear pit action. always wanted him to get some dope bladed or mace like hand attachment to replace his hand.

[@Syryu]

@@saltyninja Definitely. If there's one thing that kind of annoys me when discussing the books and the show is that everyone always says that Jaime is best swordsman in Westeros but we as the readers/audience never actually see that in action. With Ned vs Jaime, book readers always say it was inaccurate because Jaime could walk all over Ned in a sword fight, but when I read the books I never actually saw Jaime fight when he was at his absolute best. And the fights we do know about were mainly tournaments and jousts which are vastly different from warfare combat, which Ned, as a veteran of two wars, knows plenty about. I mean Jaime could very well be as good as everyone says, and this is a case of telling rather than showing. But if there's one key takeaway from this series it's don't believe everything you hear....

[@karolean8342]

@@Syryu During the battle where he gets captured by Robb Stark he managed to kill multiple knights in an attempt to charge and kill Robb and end his rebellion, forgot the name of the battle and who he killed (Karstark's sons and Robb's squire if I remember correctly). Robb also mentions how he feared for his life because Jaime seemed unstoppable and was cutting through his bodyguards quickly before being encircled and captured. It's clearly emphasised that he only surrendered because he was too heavily outnumbered to stand a chance. He also duels with Brienne before losing his hand and stands his ground against her even though he is handcuffed and tired.

[@wackyswacky1374]

@@karolean8342 For the Jaime vs Brienne fight, not only was Jaime handcuffed and tired, but he has been rotting away in a dungeon for almost a year by that point. And even then, we later hear Brienne recall the fight, thinking to herself that Jaime at full strength would have probably whooped her ass. It's actually more of a compliment to Brienne, in that she is nearly on the level of Jaime, who himself is on the level of Arthur Dayne, the greatest swordsmen basically ever.

[@ravenwhiteduck6460]

@@karolean8342 the battle of the whispering wood, Jaime cut through 10 men and almost killed Robb had it not been for his bannermen

[@GgCashh451]

I remember seeing that episode and thinking “Jamie is a young punk, Ned would absolutely destroy him if the soldier hadn’t stepped in”. Then I listened to the books and realized that Jamie could kill him while blindfolded

[@danielf554]

Jaime is one of the best fighters in the seven kingdoms at this point in time. Ned was just a battle commander but he knew the importance of wielding a sword and could hold his own against skilled opponents

[@GgCashh451]

@@danielf554 Yeah It was just their way of hyping up the protagonist. Usually I’d be able to see through it but when he made the comment about not fighting in tournaments I thought he was a legit badass

[@MrClark-df9qn]

Not quite true. Remember the conversation between Ned and Barristen Selmy. Ned was no slouch .

[@manofhonor1685]

@@MrClark-df9qn but he would lose to jaime 100/100 times

[@iateatimemachine]

@@MrClark-df9qn That conversation was show-only. In the book, no one considered Ned a particularly great or particularly bad fighter.

[@apacalypsagon3758]

Man I remember one of the descriptions when ned got injured. While he was being taken away for treatment ,he thought the shade color of the red keep looked liked blood.

[@onemanenclave]

GRRM is a genius dramatist.

[@kingofthesharks]

Lol I forgot Jaime had 2 functioning hands there

[@SeaSerpentLevi]

Me too it felt wrong HAHAH But also.. damn i miss that combat with real danger The dude made a dumb mistake and Jamie used his other arm. In the following seasons the fights became just a silly dance, or in the case of the WW battles they are literally just hugging each other o_o

[@Longshanks1690]

The Lannister soldier outfits would be VERY impractical for an actual battle, especially the helmets, but they do look sooo elegant and cool.

[@QueenDaenerysTargaryen]

They based their armor from Sameri. 💥💥

[@Micolashcage1]

Robert had a freaking set of stag Antlers on his helmet. Apparently horns on Helms were actually common, especially amongst the Vikings and Celtic warriors

[@davidkovac2409]

@@Micolashcage1 what do you mean with "whore and helms"? If you mean horn helmets then vikings didn't have horned helmets and celts only had horns on ceremonial helmets not designed for combat. Roberts antlers wouldn't work well in combat.

[@davidkovac2409]

Also the lannisters javelin goes through a coat of plates, mail shirt, gambeson and an entire human body. They then go out of the back meaning they penetrated 7 layers. They should just have an army of these guys, they would super effective.

[@guyr3618]

They look silly, honestly. The parts that cover the eyes always look like they don't fit properly, it's weird.

[@roronoalaw7772]

The biggest change from book lore being Jaime would slaughter Ned quickly in a fight

[@TJ-fe7rr]

they made Ned into a great swordsman in the show coz the good guy is always a great swordsman on screen.

[@rocknroadley8440]

I actually like this version better. Sometimes less is more. This scene just feels like a standard encounter on a bright afternoon in the middle ages. I think it helps ground the scene and thus immerses you more in the political chaos. I also love the way Jaime menacingly looks at Ned while driving the dagger through Jory's eye. That's the look of a killer.

[@mattzx003]

Give me a break it would've been way cooler at night in the rain on horses

[@haydeng3541]

yeah I agree

[@not_averge]

What

[@AyEhm-ii2dp]

At night with rain would've been better, but still having Jaime actually fighting Ned is way better than Ned's horse falling over and breaking his leg. That's so much better for both characters, particularly Jaime, who wants to cross swords with both the man who supposedly slew Arthur Dayne but who's also a living, breathing avatar of the ubiquitious scorn nearly everyone has for Jaime. So there Jaime is, thrashing Dayne's supposed killer, battering the embodiment of everyone's scorn for him, and dominating the man who supposedly ordered the capture of his beloved brother. Jaime's in his element, at his best, unstoppable and experiencing pure catharsis as he tears Ned's defenses apart... and then some fucking goon stabs the Lord of Winterfell in the back of the knee. It's perfect on so many levels.

[@PrinceRevan]

Aegon you're a legend. Thanks for getting these videos back online

[@jgfunk]

If he's calling out this change in season 1, then how the hell does he feel about what happened later on?

[@ashleyofnaath]

This scene is a great read; beautifully written and haunting in its events. Gives me serious Tower of Joy vibes as well. Particularly due to its timing- the scene occurs just after Ned makes a promise to the mother of a King's bastard to always care for the child. Curiously, that action prompts Ned to immediately think of Jon. It makes one wonder if, buried beneath everything, George gave us a massive hint about Jon's true parentage🐺🐲🤷‍♀️.

[@HoloDaWisewolf]

The many many "Promise me, Ned" lines in his chapters certainly are.

[@AzraelSoulHunter]

It's pretty obvious who Jons parents are. It's not THAT subtle and most people picked up on it.

[@HoloDaWisewolf]

I do wonder if I would have, since I already knew this from the show. The hints don't seem very subtle to me either, but again, I'm biased. Could be fun to find old forums and image boards about this show, to see how much people discussed it in the 2000s. I mean, you don't have to know about Knox's commandments to find the answer to the question "who is Jon's mother", but it needs to be asked in the first place. Then should come the questions "why did Ned hide this fact from everyone?" and "what did he promised to Lyanna", and I'm pretty sure a group of fans discussing it would reach the correct answer quickly enough.

[@AzraelSoulHunter]

@@HoloDaWisewolf I think most people back then that would speak against it would be "But it's too obvious and cliche" crowd which already says enough about how subtle it really is. And yes, these days it's much easier to piece together the clues since there are so many people on the internet to talk to about it.

[@JessieJellybeans]

@@AzraelSoulHunter no kid It’s “obvious”for you because you have 20 years of other peoples theory to easily find 😂

[@kriskelvin5775]

I loved the first few seasons of Game of Thrones with all my heart, but the duel scenes are horrifying. It feels like you are watching kids playing with brooms in the backyard.

[@intergalactic92]

I have been saying that for years. Game of Thrones was an excellent web of political intrigue, but god almighty all the fight scenes suck!

[@brandonburt4244]

They should have had your expertise is fighting

[@razvan2632]

They are not realistic but some of them are spectacular ,Oberyn vs The Mountain and Jaime vs Brienne were the worst in terms of choreography as far as I can remember ,but the Tower of Joy scene with Arthur Dayne, although unrealistic ,was badass

[@afriend1743]

I always thought that Jerome Flynn did a great job in his action scenes, especially seeing as he wasn't a young man. He always got across that Bronn was a cunning, unscrupulous fighter, searching for the upper hand

[@natesal5037]

@@jeremyfilliavertini2019 they have spectacle for sure but most of the actual fighting is dogshit

[@jschoma11]

The scene was different but acceptable, something that can't be said for the whole show.

[@ronp6009]

GRRM is always understanding on how TV/Films are a different beast. Too many authors have no idea.

[@TheSeamus82]

That's because he used to be a telly writer, and wrote for shows like beauty and the beast starring Ron perlman and Linda Hamilton

[@ilertargenthorne4639]

1:04 I feel bad for doing this but uhh no. Only *the Stark men* are on horseback while all the Lannisters except Jamie are on foot. _His [Eddard] party was mounted, the Lannisters on foot save for Jaime himself._

[@lukeshannahan2099]

You don’t feel bad at all; let’s be honest

[@ilertargenthorne4639]

D&D? I'd love to correct. But GRRM... He's a much finer cut of beef, battered with Honey and barley-bread crumbs served with a side of roast corn drowned in hot pepper sauce on a platter of vegetables with a fine bottle of Arbor Gold. _Foodie intensifies_

[@linusyootasteisking]

@@ilertargenthorne4639 Good to know he cannot be trusted to always remember all details of his own material all the time, like most people. It is kind of funny imagining foot soldiers trying to keep up with Jaimie running away on a horse. They're like "wait, a little slower please!"...

[@Buddyrtc]

@@linusyootasteisking Lol true, only they didn't need to run away unfortunately =\

[@user-om9tu9gk7t]

I literally just posted this thought I was the only one who caught that lol. Grrm doesn’t remember his own writing

[@ilertargenthorne4639]

RIP Roy Dotrice

[@jamiehuynh4770]

George R R Martin says Jaime Lannister is quite possibly the greatest swordsman in westeros and that he could beat aragorn in a 1 v 1. The show definitely didn't portray Jaime Lannister in that fashion.

[@ilertargenthorne4639]

An obligatory reminder that swords don't generally penetrate plate armor.

[@codythedoggo7671]

More like never lol

[@josesoria2072]

@@codythedoggo7671 if the sword is specifically made to do so, it happens

[@codythedoggo7671]

@@josesoria2072 ok that is true

[@miketrujillo3677]

@@josesoria2072 i have read these contemporary reports of medieval combat against turks and it seemed like when knights were on the field the only way to really kill them was either through their face or by separating them from their "squad" it would be like a group of zombies tearing at your armor but unless youre a 6 foot 280 lbs monster(for those times) youre prolly not gonna penetrate

[@al-bot1094]

If they're valyrian steel, and fictional, they do. Not sure if he's supposed to have a valyrian steel sword here though...

[@JustSomeCanadianGuy]

That scene was the most exciting scene in TV history for me up to that point. NEVER felt as charged watching TV before.

[@Golgari213]

I really do like it in the days especially because I love all the brothel workers and the homeless people all just on-looking. Feels very realistic.

[@zacrusk5274]

Also Jamie just gives an order, smiles and rides off with a smirk. That’s actually the first time Jamie does something unforgivable

[@Wveth]

Uh, he tried to murder a child in the first episode lol

[@zacrusk5274]

@@Wveth I would kill a kid to save my own life and the life of my kids. Not to mention cercis life too. The things I do for love isn’t sarcastic. Watch at an interview w grrm about it lol

[@supremeworld87]

theres nothing unforgiveable about what he does in this scene. he had a legit grievance with the starks because theyd brazenly kidnapped his brother in broad daylight, jaime killed jory in single combat because Jaime threatened Ned and Jory defended him.

[@jaimenazaryan860]

what is unforgiveable in starting a fight with the kidnappers of your brother ?

[@sgtlegacy7]

Blew my mind when i saw how Ned took out Arthur Dayne with the help of Reed while Dayne was on his knees, yet Jaimie was in a similar situation and didn’t finish Ned off. My wife who loves house Lannister made sure she pointed it out for me! I who supported house Stark.

[@chickenman7801]

The parallels are astonishing! Though there are differences between the Arthur Dayne situation and this

[@subutaynoyan5372]

Jaime never intended to kill Ned in the first place. He ordered his soldiers to kill his men and take Ned into custody. But he'd never kill him like that because Jaime, deep down, had always been a man who cares for his valour. He was just too angry about Tyrion to do something like this

[@joshuawatts1924]

Completely different situations Danye was stabbed in the throat and dying Ned needed to be alive because Tyrion was a hostage

[@Kopfschuss87]

similar situation? Dayne was choking on his own blood, Ned gave him a quick death. That was mercy

[@benjamincaldona4290]

Good old days of GOT

[@mroh6285]

George said it best. Dan and Dave ripped season 8 to shreds

[@user-kv8vy4fy4h]

If the tv scene was to be the case, being a seasoned fighter and commander like Ned would certainly have retreated in to the house and used the corridor as terrain fighting them one at a time, instead of meeting a larger group in the open ground.

[@botafumeironomas5564]

This is by far the smartest comment I've read on this comment section

[@karolean8342]

He may be a good commander (don't recall him leading a single battle in the books during Robert's rebellion but I've probably missed it) but he wouldn't use people's home and endanger innocent people or Baelish's brothel I think.

[@ilikecows44]

I read/interpreted this title as "the show changed (or pivoted) after the Jamie vs. Ned scene," as in what transpired represented the show taking a turn. I do remember Jory taking a knife to the eye and Ned taking a spear to the leg as being pretty profound.

[@alexsm3882]

I can never figure out if these snippets are from now or from some past interview

[@spoolofflarn8760]

Past. These men are fatter and older now

[@iw496]

I like to think that the writers had Jamie fight in this scene unlike the books so that the viewers could see his fighting ability with two hands (the dagger through the eye was just showing what someone can do with a spare hand)………..made people that little bit more shocked when he lost his hand too (those who like myself hadn’t read the books)

[@cuylshepherdton7437]

They made tiny unnecessary changes throughout the entire story. It reeks more of lazy plagiarism (let us just change up the order of this article I am plagiarizing so it seems like my work) than for any profound reasons. D&D are shit writers and, if you research them, were bad at literally everything related to film making and had to hire other people to do all the work for them while attaching their names to it. The shoe is pretty good for like 5 seasons or so, but don't give those hacks any credit.

[@supremeworld87]

in the books the brienne fight scene is the one thats meant to make you realise how good he is, yet the show royally fucked that up

[@iw496]

@@cuylshepherdton7437 Sounds like you have a real problem with the writers, but I will give them credit as the show for many years far outreaches anything that has come before it and since. Each to their own

[@iw496]

@@supremeworld87 I didn’t get that myself, it wasn’t a great fight and maybe could have been played out differently but only they know the way they wanted it and maybe it came out exactly how they wished. But Jamie’s fight with Eddard probably made people realise how good he was as he didn’t seem to be making too much effort and was easily the most skilled there at that point, also showed a glimpse of what Eddard may have been capable of in his youth as he did fairly well against someone who was widely regarded as one of the finest swordsman alive

[@supremeworld87]

@@iw496 it's obvious they wanted a cliche moment where the cocky overconfident supposed master swordsman gets humiliated by the woman he'd been trolling for the last couple of episodes. GRRM doesn't write like that - the way ge wrote it we are still left highly impressed by Brienne because she remains alive at the end of the fight and even manages to overpower Jaime and restrain him. But GRRM makes it very clear that even chained at the wrists, drunk as hell, and in the worst condition of his life, Jaime still vastly outmatches Brienne and at full strength, unhindered by his chains, he would defeated her with ease. In the show she defeats HIM with ease then begins trolling him back saying he must have an overblown rep. In the book she says to herself "at full strength no Knight in the seven kingdoms could withstand him" when she later recalls their fight. Completely different. In regards to the Ned fight, that's also does a poor of emphasising how good Jaime is because D&D said their intent in that fight was to show that Jaime underestimated Ned and by the end Ned becomes a threat to his life, which is why the guard stabs Ned in the leg. So that fight does more for Ned than Jaime.

[@Muccyification]

Impressive how he tried to breath/walk off a knife through the eye.

[@user-om9tu9gk7t]

1:07 am I tripping or grrm doesn’t remember his own writing. Jaimie and his men aren’t a horse just Jaime. Ned even thinks to himself that a charge might break them free but he thinks that telling Jaime that Catelyn would kill Tyrion is a surer way.

[@nastee10]

I'm still waiting for someone to explain why Jaime was not on Arya's kill list after this incident?

[@tayzk5929]

He has great hair

[@halfadeaty]

Wait no more, I explain. She didn't know Jaime ordered the attack. I advise you to read the book or look for your own answers instead of waiting for other people to do the work for you. Keep waiting for other people and you will wait for the rest of your life.

[@mattzx003]

@@halfadeaty "I advise you to spend hours reading through this giant book to answer a simple question about the TV show instead of just asking"

[@halfadeaty]

@@mattzx003 "I advise you to read the book OR look for your own answers". If you don't want to read the books you can just use google. Or do as he did and wait for other people to do the work for you. I think I know what you'll do.

[@talbertobarbossa75]

She kinda forgot Jaime killed Jory

[@randomfanboi4432]

Poor ned

[@kettenschlosd]

for real? how is gonna narrate wow should it ever come out?

[@randomfanboi4432]

@@kettenschlosd English ?

[@belligerent2941]

@@kettenschlosd world of Warcraft?

[@belligerent2941]

@@kettenschlosd winds of winter?

[@wangtoriojackson4315]

You can have horses, or you can have Stonehenge, but you can't have horses and Stonehenge.

[@Nu63]

But you can have little people on ponies riding around an 18" replica.

[@rumi1970dg]

show jaime: puts up a decent fight against ned and holds off on his own book jaime: would have killed ned without looking under 2 seconds.

[@jumunusun2790]

Not Jory!!!!!

[@RoddyTullenz]

Focus groups are equal to parking endorsement in LA.

[@srijanagrawal255]

It made more sense in the book. Ned said to him that if he kills him then tyrion's dead, jaime agrees but says that he can't let him go unscathed so he asks his men to leave ned alone but kill his men and then flees from KL to casterly rock (makes sense coz jaime's an impulsive hot headed dude) Here he asks them to take him prisoner. Where lol? He cant keep him here, he had to flee to CR himself. He can't take ned there cuz that would mean war (and eventually the war did start because ned was taken prisoner). And also, they start swinging swords? It's so stupid cuz if jaime dies then ned's fucked and if ned dies then jaime's royally fucked cuz he started this. It's nothing too major but just shows you how d&d never improved on anything george wrote. Whenever they inject themselves into the story, they always leave plot holes, big and small

[@polismf]

I am 100% convinced that they changed it because everyone wanted a duel. They either lied to Martin, or he's unable to accept the fact that a duel is what people want. Bread and spectacle!

[@killuday]

Jory was good lad

[@Grungefan331]

I liked the change. Showed Jaime caring for tyrion, jaime's impulsivenes in not really thinking through the ramifications of potentially killing the hand of the king and best friend of the king. And for those pointing out how jaime would smoke Ned, neither of them wanted to kill the other, it would go against both their motivations. Someone had to yield, and Ned didn't really have a choice after the spear in the leg

[@yanceyjames3089]

“In the book”

[@robertdavis5569]

Does it have to be like this? Does it have to be like that? How about instead. Jaime and Ned just hug it out and everyone has a laugh?

[@janberkemeier7406]

"Game of Thrones, but everyone is a lot nicer" seems like a spinoff I'd watch: - Catelyn is like a cool stepmother to Jon - Littlefinger and Varys are bowling buddies and run a charitable organisation at King's Landing together - Cersei and Robert go to marriage counseling - Drogo gets the lordship that was promised by Robert for killing Viserys, and he and Daenerys live happily in a castle in Westeros - Jaime is hailed as a hero for killing Aerys, but isn't bragging about it - Tyrion and Tysha are on a great voyage to see the Free Cities, paid for by Tywin, whom Tyrion often writes to - Ramsay Snow and Domeric Bolton are inseperable and often go hunting together - Sansa is happily married to Willas Tyrell - Joffrey is a little prick only on days that end on "y"

[@hi-ls6lt]

@@janberkemeier7406only if Dany and Drogo were the same age.

[@sebastjansslavitis3898]

best change ever. we already got so little jaime combat in the show

[@6thsavage]

I’m just upset they didn’t film the bit where where Jaime bites his thumb at Ned, thus beginning the War. But that’s film budgeting I guess.

[@not_averge]

In the book

[@not_averge]

Jamie was Smart in the books

[@jaimenazaryan860]

HE is still smart compared to northerners ,,, it's in the capital that he is considered a fool , cause the capital and particularly the red keep is full of highly clever people , his father tywin , his bro tyrion , litllefinger , varys , the tyrells , later on auberyn , quiburn ,,,, if you are jusr decently clever and surrounde by geniuses off course youb will be seen as the lowest ,,,, stilll smarter than ned though

[@bloodprince113]

I prefer this version of the scene over the book version

[@EshBBX]

I actually like the way the scene looks in the show, gives one of way too few views at the streets of King's Landing.

[@zackconley5642]

Honestly, expense versus outcome, the rain would have added so much

[@badyoutuber1986]

The reason why i mind this change is becouse when reading it it showed how ned was out of natural habitat that he was now in the lions den and underestimating Jaime would be a great mistake also the discription of jaime whipping his hair in the rain

[@guesswho8556]

2:15 Three words: Zombie Polar Bear

[@franzreyes846]

This scene makes me think about how satisfying it felt at the point where Jaime lost his hand because he was a prick and then be annoyed that he didn't have his hand in season 4 because the Jaime in this scene would have fought for Tyrion in the trial by combat which would have messed up Cersei and Tywin's plans

[@aegonthedragon7303]

Tywin would have cancelled the trial if Jaime volunteered as Tyrion’s champion, since he would rather have Tyrion sent to the wall than possibly lose his son (and ideally his heir).

[@franzreyes846]

@@aegonthedragon7303 I think no one's allowed to cancel a trial by combat once it has been requested

[@yatin9530]

@@franzreyes846 Tywin won't give any f**k about the rules

[@luigicavallo270]

I like both versions...in the Show we see that, even if he's not as good as Jaime is with a sword, Ned is no joke.

[@bjrnbrynemo9059]

At least they had swords

[@vintageenthusiast23]

Spears don’t go through armour like this so it’s pretty dumb

[@purefoldnz3070]

One of the first of many compromises and short cuts by David Benioff and D.B. Weiss

[@haydeng3541]

this scene was better in the show though. Having horses would have added nothing

[@purefoldnz3070]

@@haydeng3541 Would have added nothing...er except for horses and rain and being faithful to what the creator wanted.... yeah nothing.

[@faisalmemon285]

@@purefoldnz3070 And spending $10 million more in budget to get the proper lighting for a night scene and a rain machine also. Then getting tired with the king excessive filming and make every season like season 8.

[@purefoldnz3070]

@@faisalmemon285 Are the horses in your fantasy made of hundred dollar bills taped together?

[@mr.vargas5648]

i feel the entire show is filled with it. Except the scenes GMMR wrote.

[@ngonimarunza6849]

2:27 spoiler how jammie would be using his left hand

[@emperorpalpatine6500]

So Jaime looses his “sword hand” as far as any fight seen he had prior to his amputation he would always 2-hand his sword.

[@TJ-fe7rr]

the hand he lost was his sword hand.

[@queenshersei896]

I hate what the show did to Jaime although this scene isn’t so bothersome because it doesn’t change the essence of his character.

[@zarmiodrag]

"I just love how D&D changed this scene from the books and made Jaime fight Ned. I'm sure it doesn't mean that they're incapable of telling a complex, occasionally subtle story, without peppering it with meaningless and poorly executed spectacle. And if their show eventually dies in infamy, I'll just ignore all the evidence to their incompetence and pretend they became hacks only in later seasons."

[@yeetwchybaban]

lol

[@zarmiodrag]

@Bodhi Lee The very scene discussed in the video above shows that D&D are totally incompetent even for adapting. Like, what's the point of Jaime's fight with Ned? If it was to showcase Jaime's prowess with sword, they shouldn't have bothered, because I'm yet to find a viewer who's impressed with Jaime in this scene. Judging by their comments, however, it seems that D&D wanted to show that Ned's a badass fighter. Again, they shouldn't have bothered, because GRRM did that in the book without compromising Jaime's fighting reputation. And, last but not least, with the inclusion of Jaime's duel with Ned they shifted the focus from Ned's men to Ned himself. Jori, if I recall correctly, was never mentioned again in the show. Book Ned constantly has Jori and the rest of them on his mind, while TV Ned never seems to think of his fallen men. And of course, just remember that even D&D had to admit, sort of, that they created a stupid situation, as evidenced by Tywin's later attempt to understand what happened between Jaime and Ned: in the famous deer-skinning scene, Tywin keeps asking questions and Jaime can't provide a single reasonable answer. So no, D&D were never good at adapting. If anyone with at least some competence adapts ASOIAF one day, it'll be pretty obvious to anyone what a terrible adaptation GoT has been from the very beginning to the infamous ending.

[@aesir1ases64]

@@zarmiodrag George would slap your ass from hearing such non sense, the adaptation was flawed since day 1 but it was damn good until season 4 and acceptable until end of season 6. Season 7 and 8 is pure garbage though, they are not capable of creating anything semi original that is not trasg but they can actually adapt decently enough when they have the source material, GOT first 4 seasons has a lot of good scenes that are not in the books, even George admits that in some video.

[@zarmiodrag]

@@aesir1ases64 You obviously don't know what you're talking about, because creating scenes that weren't in the books isn't adapting, not really. Even if they're great scenes, they are original content and not adapted content. So you chose a very poor example to praise D&D's adapting skills. And no, there aren't great original scenes, even in early seasons. A few of them were decent, but not a single one was great. And virtually all of those scenes were included on the expense of much superior book scenes that were omitted. If you think that GoT was a good adaptation, you have a very low bar and practically no experience with good adaptations. As for George, I highly respect him as an author. He created a unique masterpiece of literature. But George as a critic is something else. Too often he's trying to be polite instead of honest (which is the opposite of him as author). And that's his right, I don't have a problem with that, but also I don't necessarily agree with his assessments of other people's works. That's especially true for GoT and D&D, since he can hardly be impartial and sincere on the matter.

[@firasasiri9136]

@@zarmiodrag I personally think this change makes more sense for Jaime's character. Jaime idolises ser arthur dayne so naturally he will want to cross swords with the man that beat him.

[@DJ_Osiris]

They should have made this scene work as it was in the book. I always thought this scene was stupid and unlikely.

[@kristianbasile7141]

Thank god, they shot it in the day. Half the stuff they shot at night is so dark you can't see shit.

[@samtheguru]

I am not sure what George is trying to say here. He seems almost pissed off about it.

[@jojosoni]

That's why i want animated series. No such constraints.

[@jamess.2233]

The show did it better. Season 1 was the best followed the source material well and all the small changes that were made made it even better.

[@googleminus1442]

The issue with the show's scene is that they showed Jaime as being only slightly better than ned when it should have been Jaime kicking Ned's ass. If they wanted to do this fight they should have had ned clearly losing before the lannister soldier stabs his leg to end the fight. They could have also had Jaime beat jory in a straight swordfight without the dagger, to show viewers even more that he's supposed to be crazy good with a sword.

[@muhammadhamza8358]

Yo man why don’t u remake season 8

[@BubblegumCrash332]

When it came to season 8 they sat down and said OK guys how can we make every character do the dumbest things we can think of because we spent all of our money and inspiration on CGI. So if it looks cool people won't notice

[@VonJay]

No one in the world can copy George's modes of persuasion. He's instilling years of work into pages. You cannot expect other writers of the show to match that on a yearly schedule. All we have left are the plot points and not the vast persuasive emotional traction building events connecting them all. I let go of expecting that Midway through season 5. It was so obvious they had nothing to go on besides plot. They even filmed hardhome though it was never described in the books. Left out fAegon for budget reasons. Varys being a servant of the realm made no sense since he was backing the Blackfyre family and their fake Aegon.

[@zachlee7945]

you really had me thinking George went on joe rogan

[@aidenpicken6896]

is he even finishing the books?

[@liampowell5014]

Of course not. Slim chance we’ll get WoW and even if we did, there’s absolutely zero possibility ADOS will get released. George will die before finishing his would-be Magnum Opus.

[@MRJTD99]

Probably not. I like to hope the only reason it's taken this long is because he's planning a dual-release of winds of water and a dream of spring, but I doubt it. And, if he's taking this long for 1 book that's not even the finale...yikes.

[@supremeworld87]

@@liampowell5014 its not a 'slim' chance we'll get WoW. WoW is very likely. DoS is very unlikely.

[@abdullaahwaheed1280]

It was a good scene but the way it happened in the books sounds better.

[@supremeworld87]

the scene in the book is pretty lame to be honest. they dont even fight, ned ends up injured because his horse falls on top of him

[@QueenDaenerysTargaryen]

Some of the show changes are bad. Some of the show changes are good, such as changing the Others to White Walker's and character ages. 💥🔥🔥🔥🐉🐲🐉🔥🔥🔥💥

[@zactogepi6824]

I kinda agree in some ways, daenerys being 13 in the beginning of books would look kinda weird in the show

[@vitorhenrique5229]

@here it comes the mighty duster! Not necessarily. I don't like when they age certain characters just so they can have sex scenes, but I think it's okay when they age other characters that actually have sex scenes on the books and that wouldn't be a nice thing to see on television.

[@darth856]

@here it comes the mighty duster! Robb, Jon and Dany's ages are still fine on the show. They are only around 2-3 years older than in the books. The problematic part was casting actors who were in their early to mid twenties; way older than the characters they play.

[@vitorhenrique5229]

@here it comes the mighty duster! In Robb's case, I really think Benioff and Weiss made him dumb and too old for his book counter part. Jon and Dany are fine to me. Daenerys even looks like a teen in the first seasons. But they really did my boi Robb dirty. They misunderstood why he fell for Jeany (I don't remember if that's her name) and made him a lesser commander than he was.

[@zackthezabarak739]

Personally I prefer the change, Jaime only got two action scenes on the show when he had both hands and it was good to see him in his prime.( even if the actor was a terrible swordsman and he actually fights better with his left.)

[@intergalactic92]

Say what you like about the writing across the various seasons, one thing they never got right was the fight scenes. It’s not that they are different to the book, it’s the fact they are just bad. The one exception is the battle for the wall, because that is great, but the rest all suck. Especially the duel between Ned and Jaime.

[@RyanCalhan]

Not gonna mention the fact that Jaime and Ned never fought in the books?

[@liampowell5014]

Because if they did, Ned would need plot intervention to save him from getting filleted.

[@franciscoancergomez3949]

I just didn’t like that Jaime used a knife, seems like cheating.

[@franciscoancergomez3949]

@Bodhi Lee Yeah but one of those hands had a knife. And I haven’t watched the whole Sir Arthur Dayne fight yet, besides, I think in that one he was fighting multiple opponents, Jaime was just fighting one and then Ned Stark.

[@franciscoancergomez3949]

@Bodhi Lee Understood, in my defense. I don’t really know anything about sword fighting and I just wrote that it seemed like he was cheating.

[@MrNayGames]

Yeah, well, if I'm fighting to the death I won't allow myself to get killed because cheating is bad.

[@franciscoancergomez3949]

@@MrNayGames I just think that if Jaime won’t kill Ned Stark because it wasn’t clean then he also wouldn’t use a knife and a sword because it could be cheating.

[@supremeworld87]

@@franciscoancergomez3949 cheating? it was single combat, all soldiers carry sword and dagger, theyre meant to be used in a fight. ned was a different story because Jaime was never intending to kill him

[@IskateUphill]

I'm almost willing to bet season 8 was Georges idea but since everyone hated it he has to come up with something different

[@95MidnightStar]

The scene from the show was actually quite unrealistic, since it showed Ned keeping up with Jaime pretty well, which all the book readers know is bullshit.

[@locksand45]

Donald Trump wouldn't have let the Lannisters walk all over Him.

[@aprilraine1160]

lol withing like 5 min we know why it changed and we know more about the stupidity of D&D Horses: hard to control for shoot after shoot after shoot, just easier to put on foot. Rain: requires a whole system to make it cause you cant use real rain. for a show in its first season money is tight (that's why you also see smaller sets) Night: again a nightmare to shoot because of lighting. can you imagine being in a field with lights attracting every bug known to man and having to light horses? D&D are idiots: THEY ACTUALLY PITCHED THAT SHIT FIRST! no wonder it changed how the fuck did they think it wouldn't, just because its HBO?

[@karolean8342]

Well in season 8 they used the night to hide faulty CGI and all so I completely disagree, they had a tight budget and it was a smart decision to limit their expanses, especially because having this scene a 100% like in the books would have not added much to the characters or storyline. Jory dies, Ned is hurt which causes King Robert to care for him and reinstate him as his Hand, Jaime leaves King's Landing and joins his father to participate in the war preparations against the Starks. A fight scene to pace the episode and end it with a cliffhanger, blood and swords clashing to entertain the viewers.

[@francescodhillon8119]

Show better sorry George

[@gerarquiaFM]

Yeah this scene at least

[@darthsphincter909]

Tell that to seasons 6-8

[@oicrusader2143]

if you prefer flashy fight scenes to political strategy then yes.

[@Teabagsforlife]

This scene is way better than in the books. It shows Jamie's cunning and ruthlessness as well as his skill with a blade. You see how Ned can keep his cool outnumbered, bringing up tyrion and how he can hold his own against one of the best swordsmans in the kingdom and even started to turn the tables. And the ending with the spear to the leg and Jamie's reaction showing he does have at least some honour.

[@erenrathe4293]

@@Teabagsforlife true but this scene doesnt cement Jaime as the great swordsman he was in the books, Ned holding his own against him is unrealistic