Germany Truly Suffers

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In some War Thunder circles, it's commonly said that the German tank tech tree isn't very good, especially for tanks that existed during the mid to late portion of WWII. Tanks like the Tiger and Panther fought M4 Shermans and T-34s, why are they fighting postwar tanks with HEAT and sabot? Contrary to this belief, I think German tanks in this BR range are quite good. You might even say some of them are a bit too good. Gaijin gave some pretty significant BR reductions to tanks in this range, and the effects are pretty noticeable.
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[@FirstNameLastName-wd8gn]

As someone who got a free talisman on the Tiger H and have been abusing it to research a significant portion of the german tech tree i can confirm that whenever theres a event or task that i have to do i always pick the 5.3 lineup, its just too good.

[@Anarcho-harambeism]

Lucky bastard

[@sniper321fire]

I choose US 5.3 myself since CAS is great + 2 jumbos who I kill tigers all the time since cupola up top can be penned with APCBC or APCR through the front and M36 Jackson with 90mm and speed

[@Anarcho-harambeism]

@@sniper321fire people really underestimate the Jackson

[@sniper321fire]

@@Anarcho-harambeism yep main reason I love it over the M18 since way better gun and it's almost as fast, yes its a little bigger but still does better for me mainly because M82 APCBC 1 tap anything you pen

[@Mr_Makina]

Thats pretty much the same as me. I got talismans out a battle trophy. Although being a brit main. 4.0-5.3 is a SL and RP printer for me. If its not the premium pz 4j, the tiger and talismans or generally more easy games. I always come top 3 in ger (3-7 kills), in comparison to every 3rd or 4th for UK (always more assists than kills). Im genuinely convinced german suffers, is just sarcasm at this point or extreme irony. If german players had 5% extra awareness and team compatability. Theyd get on better because the one thing I hate playing ger, is the friendlies... they are beyond useless at times.

[@pasatora5229]

Spookston: "I don't bring planes in my line up because it feels soo unfair". Me who doesn't bring planes in battle because I am a shit pilot.

[@SweetSniper5197]

Me who doesnt bring planes because I am too lazy to switch it out with a useless 1.0 meme tank that I never use

[@siegfried2k4]

Me who doesn’t bring planes because I delved too much on ground that my only aircraft is a 2.0 light bomber in a 6.3 battle

[@vaughanharrop3902]

Anything with mk 103s is lethal, but it's not usually as easy as Spookston had it in the video, enemy fighters and SPAA will cut you down pretty quickly in that plane if they are around.

[@originsword5241]

Me who rely on plane because I’m good at it: *Laugh in ace pilot*

[@reinbeers5322]

Me who brings a fighter to slap CAS out of the air

[@theaveragegamer7221]

Spookston: Nobody pays him much attention Me: Swarmed upon moving 5 feet from spawn

[@RutakoVon]

If I played like him in this video, I would 100% get clapped by a T34/57 that just materialized out of nowhere at my sides.

[@anormalloser]

@@RutakoVon I read this and think of all of the tigers I've seen just drive past my tank that has no bushes and just oofed an ally of theirs.

[@sosogo4real]

@@RutakoVon t. ypical German Main

[@RutakoVon]

@@sosogo4real nah, I play more soviet tanks than german ones. Its just I have to be more careful in tigers than t34s for example because I can't rely on my teams covering me and I have less reactive mobility. Its just funny seeing spookston ignore the careful considerations I have to place with every move, without which would normally leave me in a burnt out tank.

[@BlackyoshiFail]

well thats because spooksten plays 50 games and cuts his 3 best games together, if you look at his stats hes pretty mediocre.

[@mymumdroppedmeinthewomb367]

Germany at 5.3-7.0 is insane.. the amount of 90mm shells I've sent into panther turrets to simply have the mg absorb the entire hit

[@fiddler9804]

This. Everytime i shoot a Panther on the turret cheeks, it's either the mg absorbing it or the gunner sight. Makes me feels like bringing APCR everymatch just to counter this

[@alexcanplaygames5270]

my 105mm t13 shell did that when i hit the mg and it only killed the gunner smh

[@reinbeers5322]

When I get shot in the Panther it goes through every time lol

[@deeznoots6241]

Playing British 4.7-5.7 is so fun when facing German tanks though, since they are often so used to eating hits like nothing, and the British guns just murder them

[@CapCody]

Nahh man german tanks are week af in the turret, instead US got the T26 which are basically inmortal in the top Front

[@JARV9701]

Me: The match isn't going that bad, lets see the minimap. Minimap: The entirety of the other side of the map is empty (no blue points) and a tiger with 11 kills

[@vangard9725]

I don't even get the meme that "Germany suffers" when war thunder doesn't do suspension or transmission failure rates

[@archanabisen5592]

@@vangard9725 germany suffers because idiot team

[@osmacar5331]

The problem is they're all my teams. Am not the best player I'll admit. But good god that doesn't justify utterly retarded players. We need something else other than wt.

[@CatsAreAmazing8187]

@@vangard9725 The tiger didn’t even really have those problems, just parts problems it was the Panther like Spook said in a diff vid, but the meme comes from shit German players coping about Germany not handholding them without them putting effort, you won’t really do well with good vehicles if you’re dog 🤷‍♂️

[@archanabisen5592]

@@CatsAreAmazing8187 the only thing that limited the tiger was production no. And hard field repairs

[@Geniusinventor]

Can we all take a moment to appreciate the beautiful 122mm Shell bounce that we have witnessed? It's immeasurably good.

[@honk5468]

it would be immeasurably good if you would stop getting up youtubers asses

[@engineermerasmus2810]

Specially if you know what an actual 122 could do to tanks

[@Geniusinventor]

@@engineermerasmus2810 yeah with that ballistic cap shell

[@opmofo2512]

isnt that a 105mm?

[@surrounded8637]

That is a 105mm that hit him

[@brownie_nix5338]

Personally I like 5.7 better. Go up .4 but get a tiger with less weaknesses, panther with faster turret, and basically the same br bracket. Plus that area is generally peak ww2 so it’s pretty saturated and doesn’t cause too many uptiers (unlike 6.7)

[@PrincePICHAISUNDARARAJAN]

True, I would generally prefer to play the Tiger E for the faster turret rotation (APCR makes me a little more comfortable even if it is basically useless), though I like the H1 more aesthetically. Plus the Tiger E felt a lot more mobile to me than the Panthers in hull traverse, though they are good backups. :P

[@tournitou9750]

The issue is you can be down tieres in 6.7 and the tiger I will become unplayable while in the Tiger H1 you can only go on 6.3 and there is very few tanks in 6.0 or 6.3 and it still playable

[@johneisenberg7329]

I play 5.7 and I feel like I get up tiered every match

[@_Beans_]

Panther A is great. Fastest panther, best turret traverse. Entirely workable up at 6.7.

[@paddyc5168]

I would say that 5.7 Germany with the improved tiger and panther is definitely more "fun". although at the end of the day the differences are pretty marginal. the tiger h1 and panther d would probably do fine at 5.7 if people played them correctly

[@viperz3r016]

2:29 can confirm. I hated the IV/70 when fighting it, but then i grinded to the Pz.IV70 and dear god it's a monster. Literally a squashed Panther/StuG abomination

[@blackshogun272]

It quite possibly the most feared tank in the game. For me at least. That or bumping into an IS-1/IS-2 and not knowing if it has a shell ready to send you to God...

[@DIVeltro]

@@blackshogun272 first thing I do against an IS2 is bust his gun....

[@siegfried2k4]

God the IV/70 is amazingly broken. The armor of a Panther + with add on armor that adds a bit to the front, amazing gun and better zoom than the Panther, excellent speed and it is very SHORT. I could sing praises about this little underrated tD

[@l.a.wright6912]

@@siegfried2k4 I love the 4/70 but the armour isn't as strong as you guys think. It's lower front plate can be easily pennetrated by almost everything at its br. And it's speed is often less than the panzer 4. But it is still amazing though

[@rawhidelamp]

@@l.a.wright6912 transmission eats the shot -> IV/70 kills you

[@pickleman40]

1:51 can confirm, grinded the last event at light speed with the tigers and panthers that I never use otherwise lol

[@kh2b573]

So true

[@normallymute0131]

I used the American mini maus (M6A1) cause at the time it was 4.7. I could seal club overzealous tigers who would see a bigger Sherman and not even angle

[@CarryPotter007]

why wouldn't u use otherwise? players do like op vehicles

[@electricbayonet2]

6:00 This is one of those pieces of advice that any new player should get to avoid a LOT of frustration. Not just for Tigers (where it can be especially valuable), but for tanks generally. At best, the default loadout for most tanks surrounds your crew with shells you’ll never have a chance to use. At worst, it surrounds your crew with shells that are useless 95% of the time for anything that isn’t sending your tank into low-orbit after an otherwise survivable pen.

[@hunterspeight3069]

Can confirm the panther d even just stock can be lethal if you play MENACINGLY but with a hint of ambush maneuvering. And I'm only beginning to start to play the panther d.

[@fsdds1488]

Even though its true but I still like to carry 50 ammo for Tiger, 30 APCBC, 10 HEAT and 10 Pzgr., I simply can't entertain the idea of replenishing ammo because 99% of the time I am not even remotely close to capture points.

[@bickboose9364]

Unless you play Rank 6/7 Russia (I'm refering to the T-series MBTs), in which case the ammo acts as extra armor 50% of the time.

[@jojomaster7675]

@@fsdds1488 Don't. The Tiger has only 1 good shell ,which is the stock pzgr39. And 30 shells is plenty. Don't bother with anything else.

[@610Blackhawk]

I know it’s a bit excessive, but I tend to take 35-45 total rounds for my tanks. 25 standard AP (or 30 if it’s a solid shot that I know won’t one-shot reliably), 10 HE for overpressuring open vehicles, and sometimes 10 special AP like APCR if the tank gets it. Occasionally I’ll also take 5 or 10 smoke rounds, because used properly those can be really useful. I find that anything that lights up my ammo probably would have one-shot my crew anyway had the ammo not been there to absorb spalling, so I stoped worrying about min-maxing my ammo loadout to avoid having any racks filled.

[@bighobo7745]

Many WW2 tank destroyers in the German tech tree don't have the driver's viewport modeled. It would be a flat weak spot in the otherwise impenetrable front plate so eh.

[@jashloseher578]

Yep, not modelled plus the best spaced armour in the game: german driver optics.

[@Arkhmar]

tiger driver port be like

[@N4CR]

They don't model the brummbar correctly so it is a weak spot. Germany typically didn't do weak spots on UFP, kugelblende isn't modeled properly in WT.

[@damnsonwheredyoufindthis.3830]

And low lvl german mains have the audacity to say germany suffers and russia is biased when their tanks literally don't have weak spots that are proven targets from ww2 soviet tankers

[@vladimirpalicka9058]

3:42 I’m playing 5.3 russia and I learned to shoot panthers with turrets like this between the gun mantlet and hull. I’m pretty accurate but when the target is more than 400-450m away then its really hard to hit for me

[@jkriz6346]

I stopped playing WT a couple months ago but i was usually playing 5.7 US (Sherman 76s, Jackson, m18) and having pretty good success. Except frontally against panthers. Between the trolly mantlet, hitting the drivers optic and then not penning the space u described, or not penning the cupola, I’d have a little trouble. That’s y most of my strategy revolves around flanking and using cover to my advantage and choosing the right place to pop out and shoot and use the stabilizer to my advantage. I still have no clue why the easy 8 Sherman is 5.3 while the panther D is 5.3

[@limaTheNoob]

@@jkriz6346 was the easy 8 moved back? Last time I saw it, it was 5.7. The M4A2 76 was the 5.3 sherman. Both OBVIOUSLY on par or better than a panther, apparently 😥

[@ForelliBoy]

the joke is that whenever i play panthers the shells always seem to get fucking magnetized to that weak spot

[@Controldo]

Doesn't help when any slightly off center shot is eaten by the machine gun, or alternatively the cupola optics

[@alexnovak3319]

@@jkriz6346 just use the Jumbos! theyre OP as fck if you encounter lone enemies! they have stabilizers, and invincible armor! just shoot and wiggle the hull and they wont kill ya! thats what id do, since i play germany and USSR mostly

[@sharkk127]

I've given up with trying to spade the tiger e and prefer the panthers, they're honestly insane if you don't show your side to much

[@nickkozak4763]

until you meet a player who shoots out your turret hatch or cheeks a lot

[@JustAnotherRandomPersonOnline]

@@nickkozak4763 Turret wiggle is OP (I say in jest).

[@nickkozak4763]

@@JustAnotherRandomPersonOnline there is still the perfectly round turret hatch

[@joncullen3063]

@@nickkozak4763 IF they can hit said turret hatch. You forget that the panther is build for long range engangments.

[@QwerYT4819]

The panther is the only reason I have the PT-76B in my lineup. The BK-354M has enough penetration to go through the UFP, but if you angle even a little, it fails to penetrate.

[@dixievfd55]

Honestly the Tiger H1 feels more like a medium tank than a heavy. It feels more mobile than the Tiger 2 or any of the American or Russian heavies.

[@LooperEpic]

It’s insane how fast it is, it can’t be that fast in real life, can it?

[@hueylong7989]

@@LooperEpic its not realistically, but warthunder just has the tanks work how they're described to do so

[@b-17gflyingfortress6]

@@hueylong7989 Maus keeping her max speed most of the time is already amazing feat

[@jonathanallen3688]

@@LooperEpic no unfortunately gaijin just goes off of theoretical limits. Most tanks have a cruising speed they'd use for 90% of time that'll be decent speed maybe half of their max to reduce strain on the suspension, transmission and crew. But gaijin just sees hey a T-34 went 50kph in trails(going downhill) and completely destroyed most of it torsion bars, suspension and running gears so we'll make it 50kph in WT.

[@zaleost]

@@jonathanallen3688 You know I always wondered where the T-34's insane speed came from

[@bjboss1119]

"When you get downtiers it's just not fair" I actually disagree with this, especially on the tiger E, in an uptier i know all the 6.7 heavy tank players are going to over extend themselves and run right past me, while i can lightly flank in my tiger and catch them unaware. But in a dowtier all the 76 shermans and fireflys and going to be extra cautious and very scary, except for the m18 and jumbo players, they just rush forward to their death extra fast.

[@captainobvious8662]

That’s just a skill issue. when I play tiger I take Sherman’s like nothing, you just have to angle armor then you are pretty much invincible. You barely have to aim for weak spots just point and click and you win.

[@bjboss1119]

@@captainobvious8662 you don't fight 75 shermans in a dowtier, you fight the infinitely more scary 76 and 17pdr shermans that cut through you optimum angle like butter

[@captainobvious8662]

@@bjboss1119 I play both Sherman I tiger lol angling as a tiger pretty much makes you invincible against a 76 but I’m not too sure about the 17pdr.

[@bjboss1119]

@@captainobvious8662 no one is safe from 17prd, 76mm sure you can sidescrape, 17pdr does not care about your puny opinion of good armour (especially not the sabo round), say goodbye while you can. I fear the 17pdr while playing germany, it, the american 76mm and the russian 85mm are the main reason why i hate playing the panther, they have enough pen to not care about your turret's thickness difference and as such take all of you turret crew guaranteed, plus you can't hide your turret if you want to shoot them. I also love the 17pdr because i main britain for a couple years

[@loowick4074]

@@captainobvious8662 expect that everyone with more than 2 braincells will shoot a tigers gun since its made out of cardboard

[@Bread-kun]

The main painful thing in that BR bracket when playing as germany is the CAS the US n Russian teams end up bringing in. More often then not I end up losing my lineup to being bombed to death.

[@bigboygrease5922]

Theres the historical accuracy everyone was asking for lmao

[@yamatokurusaki5790]

@@bigboygrease5922 True lol

[@alexey_chekhovich]

Well cause it’s a obvious counter to the undertiered German lineup. 500kg of TNT does not care if your tank is 4.0 or 6.7.

[@justarandomtechpriest1578]

Russia gets us CAS with a premium bonus AND better lineup for ground

[@ForelliBoy]

fwiw the 264 with 1800s won't quite clear an entire grid square but if you have at least some spotting kill you don't need to hit it close also a reminder to TRAIN YOUR GUNNERS

[@KenMochii]

I've been steamrolling with Germany lately and currently having trouble playing allied nations recently, seriously allied teams right now plays like the average German main, seems like the player base switched for some reason.

[@oiermontero2310]

Event

[@Scongi]

Good...good let the usa mains know how if feels like.

[@panzerkampfwagenvdauphine6489]

the t34 is such a weird vehicle once it took 5 shots of 17pdr apds to the ufp un angled, all of them non penetrations at 500 meters

[@saopro21]

APDS had dogshit postpen and angled pen. 17pdr APDS is a terrible round tbh. You probably got track-memed or hit and slightly angled portion of his tank.

[@yamatokurusaki5790]

But now germany is the op one xD bruh

[@bro3217]

@@yamatokurusaki5790 hardly op if you know how to play

[@XMysticHerox]

@@yamatokurusaki5790 Tiger at 5.3 is stupid OP. Gaijin balances using literally nothing but winrates. So the most noob played vehicles all tend to be busted which includes both T34s and German heavies.

[@yamatokurusaki5790]

@@XMysticHerox Tiger 1 is in no way shape or form op it can be easily killed

[@HeyHeyHayden]

Ironically the vehicle in your lineup that was (is?) the most broken is the HE-217. When it was released it could end Air RB games before anyone got a single player kill on certain maps (such as El Alamein) , it was just that good at killing ground targets. I grinded the entirety of the German Air tree at that time with it in a few weeks.

[@Neion8]

3:48 'it use to be pretty easy to take out, now it it's just... impossible' *dies The comedic timing via that editing was brilliant!

[@leonst.7471]

I really love the 5.7 bracket (almost every tree) but I hate the uptiers.

[@user625FNDA]

There is no uptier at 11.3

[@scarfaceone9005]

That's why I like playing tanks like PT-76 or Comet. They're generally more effective in uptier.

[@alexnovak3319]

Yeah I hate going up against IS-2 (1944) with my Tiger E

[@iileross8398]

@@alexnovak3319 I just bully the turret. Lower plate works sometimes if I need a quick shot but I find it just disappears and hits the roadwheels. One hit kill and bye bye IS.

[@andrewgause6971]

Wait. 5.7 exists? Whenever I play Russia or Germany or Sweden at 5.7, its always a full uptier. XD

[@badmouth1542]

It’s kinda ironic how powerful yet how underpowered the German lineup at 5.3 is depending on a razor’s edge of skill in WT.

[@programmedgamer7101]

Strengths vs weakness is all that is. A tiger is overly balanced in it's br, having a capable weapon but dubious and questionable protection. When used in ideal circumstances (blockading points and 500+ m engagements imo) it's strengths are more apparent. The problem is warthunder has many point blank close range maps or many open fields with no substantial cover. The tiger is bad because Sherman's excel at close range and tigers are outclassed by dedicated TD and is2's at long range. However in scenarios like port novorossiyk you can have hard cover to supplement your iffy layout and a decent range to defeat low energy ammo. I took upwards of 20-30 angled frontal hits from 85 and 75/76mm guns while scoring 7-8 knockouts and repeated full disables while losing no crew. It's just because it's a overly rounded tank that makes it where it doesn't stick to any hard play style, which is why he says it's harder to learn. You just have to have options when fighting because there's a tank somewhere which has a clear superiority in some category. Field and knife fights leave no chances for mistakes unlike hiding behind the bunkers or in the concrete pits or behind the apartments.

[@badmouth1542]

@@programmedgamer7101 Touché. Ironic a well rounded vehicle doesn’t do well in a ‘simulator’ when the concept worked well irl. Correct me if I’m wrong, tho.

[@programmedgamer7101]

@@badmouth1542 Had your opponents been historical matchups it would be much better. However br rankings mean you can go against tanks 20 years more recent and such. When fighting anything like 75 Sherman's and 75mm t34s you obviously obliterate.

[@aregulargenericname8794]

@@programmedgamer7101 Tiger isn't overly balanced, its just op

[@Scongi]

Yeah it all depends on teammates

[@OddBawZ]

God, I love the Tiger H1 so much but I wish to god you could take those stupid AP Mine Launchers off. I suspect it would put it 5.7 again where it belongs, though.

[@Callsign_Merkava]

Daddy oddbawz comes again with another W

[@kaboom6236]

AP Mine Launchers? Wdym?

[@Callsign_Merkava]

@@kaboom6236 fv4005 and M51

[@konoko1984]

@@kaboom6236 Those launchers mounted at the front, atop the front hull roof. They were often loaded with antipersonel grenades. Ingame Tiger uses only launchers that are mounted on the turret to launch smoke and front launchers are there just to be "accurate". But all they do is not allow you to depress a gun on certain angles. Funnily enough, japanese tiger used to have H's collision model with "ghost" launchers.

[@kaboom6236]

@@konoko1984 I see, thank you.

[@louisnel894]

I am 100% convinced that RNG playes to much a factor for the Tiger. How is it possible that you can do some games and get 15kills bouncing everything! but the next game a low lvl sherman or cromwell just one shots you even when u are angled. You can do what ever the fuck you want boys, Gaijin decides your fate.

[@muhammadusmanrafique3517]

Tiger h1 in my opinion is quite good it just can be killed really easily if the player is too aggressive which as a German main I can confirm most people do that

[@Cell780]

"take like 20 or 25" i bring my tiger E to battle with 8 rounds💀

[@INSANESUICIDE]

I think the main issue is the strength of German tanks were their ability to devastate at range before the enemy could close and be a danger back, which rarely happens map wise in the game, how do you brawl with snipers so to speak?

[@ratman-f1b]

i used to main germany, they brawl extremely well

[@M4A3Sherman]

Personally, I do not have many problems fighting Germany at 5.3 in RB or AB. It’s probably because I’ve figured out how to fight each of their tanks, using the M4s and other tanks to their strengths. As you pointed out, don’t bring a full load of shells if you’re playing the tiger, it just makes it easier for me to detonate the ammo with a 76mm shell.

[@yamatokurusaki5790]

Yea idk why or how they now can say 5.3 is op now bruh He had couple games and say that it is OP bc dude is playing this for ages

[@theBrid-gv8je]

I feel like Germany doesn't win every single match solely because they were never taught to look both ways before crossing a street, I play minor nations so it might be just my perception but someone playing Germany has to do way less work than you to manage a kill

[@M4A3Sherman]

@@yamatokurusaki5790 Spookston definitely represents the section of players that do well with German tanks. There is a portion of the players that are not as skilled and they don’t do as well.

[@M4A3Sherman]

@@theBrid-gv8je German tank players do have situational awareness issues. I can tell you that I’ve destroyed a lot of oblivious Panthers and Tigers from their sides when they could have easily responded if they paid attention.

[@theBrid-gv8je]

@@M4A3Sherman My Daimler has taken a few to it's terrible awful poor uptiered k/d

[@rebelblade7159]

And you haven't even touched the Nashorn. Has the long 88 on a relatively fast reloading and decently mobile chassis at 5.3. Also, 4.3 Soviet is even more broken.

[@jojomaster7675]

Tbf, 4.3 germany is probably even more broken than 4.3 soviets.

[@sugoisukhoi]

okay this maybe a controversial take but i personally think that the pziv/70 is better than the tiger and panther

[@Supercohboy]

You're 100% right, until you go against a player that knows to aim for the tracks.

[@sugoisukhoi]

@@Supercohboy or knows the mg port weakspot

[@Supercohboy]

@@sugoisukhoi I've never been able to rely on that weakspot. It was broken through the duration of too many patches, and no one has developed anti bush hacks yet, so I rarely get to even see the MG port

[@reinbeers5322]

@@sugoisukhoi There is no weakspot, its just a continuous 80mm plate.

[@AFT_05G]

I disagree but it’s a great tank destroyer for sure

[@justaGermanguy_]

i would say it would be pretty interesting to see you play the IS-4M because it sits on an pretty debatable BR

[@miguelchavez6486]

Usually as Germany I suffer with my teammates dying and or getting flanked. Or angling the front and still getting penned.

[@MythicPi]

Friendly reminder that though people like to rip on german players for "being bad with the Tiger", just like Spookston is doing in this vid, Spookston himself even pointed out at 0:22 the fact that the issue with the tiger is not that its bad, but that its "not easy to use" and considering 5.3-5.7 is still VERY MUCH low tier, where tons of beginners are found, its not actually surprising that the Tiger and Panther D underperform, as they are unfriendly tanks to new players. On the flip side of this, the Jumbo, often lamented as being overtiered, is one of the most noob friendly vehicles in-game due to have an early stabilizer and fantastic frontal armor with a weakspot that is non-apparent to new players and EXTREMELY easy to hide, drastically increasing the survivability and performance of new players. Shitting on new players because they are playing a tank that you, with hundreds if not thousands of hours of experience playing WTGF's, can play much better than them is super classy as always Spookston. Glad you continue to be a beacon of positivity in this community.

[@supremefirebird]

Found the salty German main that can't shoot

[@MythicPi]

@@supremefirebird whatever makes you feel better m8, I think its under tiered, I just think ripping on new players when you yourself say its not an easy tank to play is pretty toxic and generally bad for the community.

[@AllMightyKingBowser]

agreed, the Jumbo is much more easy mode than 5.3 Tiger 1

[@XMysticHerox]

It's not as easy to use as some vehicles but you don't exactly need a 1000 hours in the game to be good with it. And it is extremely strong when used properly. Basically as we all know a lot of Germany players expect to be able to just drive in and win. Not doing that does not take incredible skill. When you look at what these tanks actually are stats wise it's kinda insane they are at the BR they are at but thats Gaijin balancing with nothing but winrates for you.

[@z54964380]

@@AllMightyKingBowser nah the 5.3 jumbo sucks compared to the 5.3 tiger, the gun just doesn’t cut it when they are both up tiered, lots of time when facing 6.3s the jumbo just can’t do shit with its barely 100mm pen

[@cmsIGauffahrgestellPanzerkampf]

In all fairness, the tiger H1, KV-1 L-11, IS-1 to IS-2 1944 and jumbo 75 sherman are the only vehicles where I would actually have fun in as a heavy and are an actually usefull asset than just a worse alternative to some superior medium or zooming booming light boy and that also goes for some SPG's but Simulator is hella fun in any heavy, especially late war/post war ones where you don't have to worry about uptiers, sensible amounts of CAS (and no revenge killing CAS), more rewards per match (i remember getting about 80K SL and 7K RP over just a few kills and a cap using just one 150% SL booster and a 300% RP booster) and just more satisfaction in the slow and steady nature of driving over 50-100+ tons of steel but I'm at a bias here as im the usual heavy tank enjoyer but the panther D definitely needs a uptier and the Pz IVs overall were fine as they were in their previous tier.

[@i8yourDog]

That bounce on the T-34 is just the definition of war thunder

[@bob1268205]

My one mention about the Tiger series are the fact they can very easily hull down and snipe at roughly 1000+ meters. If you are sniping between 1000 to 1500, then barely any tanks to no tanks will damage you if you angle the tank. If you can angle the tank by roughly, let us say 20 degrees, then no one can pen you if they hit on the hull of the tank. I have noticed many times over that many Sherman tanks especially Sovjiet tanks have literally no penetration values at roughly 1000 meters mark. So in many ways, you will simply make their ammo useless at a distance. For example the map "European Province", if you sit on the opposite side of the Town and firing on moving targets on the other side of it, you can side or rear hit most of the enemy tanks while they cannot hit you. If you really want to be spicy, hull down behind a small hill and adjust your range with the cannon to fire over it. It is incredible to curve shots around a hill to kill your targets without knowing of your existence. But yeah, German tanks are really strong when played like this with an 8.8mm cannon.

[@faasnuhind8578]

I remember running the 5.3/5.7 tigers one mission to get kills with a heavy. Was rather ridiculous how accurate it was, as long as you had the right range and payed attention.

[@DonForceFeedback]

I must have the worst luck with the german tree then. In RB now, i'm getting tiered with BR7 vehicles every game, 3 games in a row i can't even drive to a sniping position without being taken out by a russian or american tank of any kind. When i do and shoot back, it's ok if the enemy actually come into your killing zone but that's luck and when an IS2 shows up its game over. You either sit back to snipe and have a shit game or try to get a better position and have a shit game. I also noticed how everyone praises the tree (rank 3 area) but their content is from 3/4 years ago. Plus all the games they show footage off shows them taking out cromwells and other lower br vehicles, not the shit i'm going against. oddly enough, the hetzer is a cheeky little tank that has surprised me every time i use it.

[@patrioticshitstain]

I can only speak for myself, but as soon as I got the Tiger H1 there was a sudden spike in learning curve, plus the rest of my roster was in the 3.3-4.0 range, which made it feel like I suffered. Then I did China...

[@Supercohboy]

The Tiger at 5.3 is fine, as someone who recently grinded through the French tech tree up to 7.3. I'd prefer for it to be at 5.7 and the Panthers at 5.7-6.3, but I also think that between 5.3 and 7.7, there's a bit of BR compression that would make the Tiger all but worthless if the br was raised again. The biggest issue with the Tiger is its polarizing effect: Either you know how to play it and angle yourself or you don't. Either you know the tank's weak spots or you don't. Your experience against/using a Tiger 1 is going to vary HEAVILY depending on these skill-based factors. People need to learn to not listen to either extremes of a discussion like this: the Tiger 1 at 5.3 is the least of our worries as far as game balance goes, and if the player base was more honest with themselves then I think you'd hear more people with similar opinions to mine piping up around the net.

[@reinbeers5322]

@@UndeadDjingis His gameplay wasn't even that impressive, most of his kills were made against people driving sideways where it wouldn't matter if he was driving a Tiger H1 or a Pz IV H. If more skilled people were playing 5.3 germany, the H1 would have gone up to 5.7 already.

[@YukitoOnline]

It becomes a different story when you're on 5.7 Germany..

[@IceAxe1940]

Not really, German 6.3 lineup is still solid and German 5.3 vehicles can still dominate at 6.3 and 5.7

[@yellowcrayonkid]

Tiger gets uptiered so much. I’m constantly fighting super Pershings and m-51s

[@kalebk9595]

At least you're not a 75 jumbo fighting Jagdpanthers and Tiger IIs

[@Cris-xy2gi]

@@kalebk9595 I want to just leave the match when that happens lol

[@azravalencia4577]

the M-51 is fine, the HEAT isnt that reliable. Unless you got uptiered facing T26E5, then good luck pen that thing from frontal.

[@yellowcrayonkid]

@@azravalencia4577 once had a game where there was a whole line of panthers and tigers all firing at one Pershing, which just bounced probably over 50 shots. Finally killed it when I respawned and flanked it

[@neromastic4512]

And once more I did suggest the Obj 685 as I rarely see it been used.

[@mrsneakyburt6305]

Been grinding the summer event using 5.7 Germany, and god damn that 88 just one taps everything it hits

[@Geniusinventor]

Man Panzer 4-70 is like a batter Hetzer soo I have no complaints on it 🙃

[@maverickf1426]

what i found out is that if you get shot by he, the indicator where the shot came from goes all arround the vehicle which makes it really unnoticeable where the shot came from and fire back. see in 2:55 forwards. this is extremely anoying since i got killed so many times now since i couldnt retreat or something even if the first shot didnt killed me. you cannot react to that

[@darthioan]

Same here. Event or task, it is either KV-1E with backups (which does not really have much of a lineup around it at 4.0!, but it has a plethora of Il-2s to choose from), nor does it need any additional tanks to go with it because it is highly survivable because most people at these brs aren't very competitive either. Or it is a lineup around Tiger H1 or Tiger E. Either one (5.3 or 5.7) has quite few options to work with.

[@andrasjuhasz7011]

The feeling when you kill 8 tigers in your sherman and more tigers are coming to just overwhelm you with sheer numbers(no team around ofc). Kind of a funny reverse world.

[@coolananasaftltvolkswagen105]

It's super painful to watch half your team fail to aim at a gun mantlet once they see a sherman jumbo, and just try over and over to penetrate the exact same spot.

[@lector-dogmatixsicarii1537]

@@coolananasaftltvolkswagen105 You can overpressure a jumbo from the front with an 88... I have been a victim of that in the past.

[@coolananasaftltvolkswagen105]

@@lector-dogmatixsicarii1537 I’ve never actually seen that yet, ima try and do it at some point

[@egemenbelen1134]

They ruined my boy

[@k-classsub9820]

Are we just not gonna talk about his “bitch” preset?

[@Postal_Dude_Petition]

İ just realised

[@nathaneddy502]

5.7 Germany is so much more OP than 5.3. you get 2 panthers a tiger and a bunch of CAS planes to play with. The panther is so OP at its bracket especially when all the Sherman's aim for the hull. You can also jump up to 6.0 but I find 6.3 with the M41 and the he162 to be great. I found that once I started getting to 7.0 and 7.3 you see a massive hit in your capabilities. The only good tanks in the range are the BMP 1 and Leo 1 which now have 7k repair costs. If you take it out and any of the me 262 you're easily facing 14k per match. Which is a real pain in the arse when some tanks get laser range finders and literally everything including the Satan PT 76 57 can pen.

[@hydrodrift]

I’m just gonna comeback to this video and leave this here. This video made me find interest in playing Online War Thunder(I would only play Dynamic Campaign, mainly due the Wolfenstein the New order and how I found it badass how all the planes were in formation just to get slaughtered in the end) again, tho I’ve only payed a phew games and I don’t have 2 of vehicles you use(being the two engine plane and the Panzer lV/70) I still find it the line up enjoyable, it’s balanced and still good at the same time. That’s the type of gameplay I want from my games and you’ve made that happen. Thank you m8.

[@islandpartyman5881]

i would really like to see a video about how important crew skills are to certain vehicles in war thunder, a good example being tigerH1/PantherD with low level crews they are pretty mediocre compared to allied vehicles at similar BRs but with expert and ace crews they turn into killing machines (the lowest reload on both tanks with expert is 7.9sec, with ace its 7.4sec, to me this is a significant difference compared to the stock reload of the vehicles)

[@burneracc2567]

Suggestion: 7.3 T 54 (1949 I think). Unless you have to face ATGMs or APDS, which isn't really that common, you are basically invincible. Your APDS shatters on everything and sucks against volumetric armor but you can pen just about everything. Also, every now and then you get to smack a jumbo without having to aim for MG port.

[@m.t.fguard8309]

I always get on my German teammates when they complain about being shot so easily and I asked her if they have full ammunition from and they say yes I say rule number one when you play Germany never to go into a fight with full ammunition and usually works because they don't roll into the next tank with their ammo storages is overflowing

[@thompsongunner27]

the tiger was a breakthrough tank so it makes a bit of scents that player would just charge in.

[@op6379]

it sucks because now the Tiger h1 is now 5.7 and all my other tanks are at 5.3 and 5.0

[@floridaman3892]

5.3 Germany and 3.3 Germany is incredibly fun to play. I also found it fun to play America at those BRs. (I also like 8.7-9.7 Germany)

[@W0pper1997]

3.3 is just one big pain in the ass imo

[@towarzyszbeagle6866]

These things being at 5.3 is the result of a solid decade of the type of person who watched a History Channel documentary once and thinks the Tiger should be invincible bitching on the forums.

[@XMysticHerox]

More like those people getting into the game, rushing those tanks and then driving straight at the enemy because muh superior german engineering. Then Gaijin downtiers them because of the "winrate" that is the sole factor in their balancing besides selling premiums.

[@lightning1605]

My main problem with the tiger, is where you get it in the tech tree, it's right after the both of German's best tanks the Pz IV F2/G/H and the Stug G both having relatively powerful guns, with Pz IVs having almost paper turret armor and fairly mediocre maneuverability but a pretty decent turret traverse especially when you start turning the hull, and the Stug having decent maneuverability (which I feel is better then the late Pz IVs) and pretty capable armor that the enemies guns struggle to pen you alot of the time unless they send a round through the driver's vision slit. They are all extremely competitive in their BR as while they will slightly lag behind other countries tanks due to a slightly lower speed then t-34s & M4s they have enough maneuverability to be tactically useful, their guns are able to achieve one shot kills on almost all adversaries with fairly large areas to hit to kill and a relatively flat trajectory, with both Pzs and stugs being able to rapidly train their guns on target, means that as long as you spot them before they can train their gun you, you have a decent chance to kill them. On the other hand the Tiger is almost the complete opposite of these tanks, it's slow, even while traversing the hull it takes a long time to slew the gun onto target, the Armor while decent needs either distance or the correct hull angling to be useful, although the gun is pretty good. The problem is the switch from the aggressive get up in the enemies face and shoot them before they shoot you tactics of the previous tanks don't work, as you just don't the gun traverse or maneuverability to achieve the same angles or just cowboy to pull of these tactics. The problem with this tank is that It need a almost completely new playbook compared to previous tanks and it is jarring. Edit: most of the German tanks right before the tiger was spent giving other tanks angle and traversal problems lol penning them, In the Tiger is spent having those same angle and traversal problems being unable to lol pen.

[@warhawk4494]

I wish gayjin hadn't screwed up the BRs.

[@ussindianapolis487]

yeah, 6.7 is very hard to play right now. especially with german tanks.

[@Cheesycat0]

@@ussindianapolis487 one of the best brs for it

[@ussindianapolis487]

@@Cheesycat0 wdym? almost all of my games at 6.7 were 7.3/7.7 uptiers where my armor meant nothing and my guns couldnt scratch some of the russian, british and american heavies and even medium tanks.

[@Cheesycat0]

@@ussindianapolis487 in what nation ? im gussing by ur name that u mean american which the t34 heavy prob the most brain dead and undertiared heavy in the game and even in uptiers is still good

[@ussindianapolis487]

@@Cheesycat0 no, i have 6.7 only in china and germany and while chinese 6.7 isnt that hard thanks to type 62, the german one is really annoying as almost every tank is heavily armored and uses obsolete ammunition.

[@CompetitiveRacist54]

I love German players, constantly blaming the tanks rather than admitting they just suck ass

[@warm_egg_salad5953]

Glad someone is publicizing my opinoin for me as a german main who loves the underrated 5.3 tanks. Edit: little advice for the panzer IV, you can angle the hull to the right slightly to make sure those T-34s can't one shot you. If they shoot your track the turn afterwards and shoot their turret out.

[@justacanadianguy07]

2:34 "its so small" -every girl I've ever known

[@rioutous0rchid09]

Hey Spookston, what are your thoughts on the MPWS piranha 8x8? With your love of light vehicles and the ARES cannon I wouldve figured you’d be all over that thing

[@valian8985]

Did you know that the MOAB piranah was also tested with a "cyber amx 13" Turet called FL20, with autoloader 105mm gun, 20mm canon improved protection and thermal and stab ! Aller that in à very small turet btw.

[@MrTrool323]

Comparing 5.3 Germany...it is pretty fucking solid even into 6.3 and you just feel comfortable compared to say...6.7 where uptier vs 7.7 equals to getting wrecked by CAS,HEATFS or more often...rockets

[@reinbeers5322]

Yeah at 6.7 the tanks still use 'normal' ammo instead of ATGMS and CHEATFS.

[@willisdaname6179]

As a newcomer to Germany, I can confirm that the tiger is really really good I average 3 plus kills a game with it

[@bigboygrease5922]

God it frustrates me to no end that the tiger 1 and panther are at 5.3 but the jumbo 76 is at 6.3 like wtf lmao

[@debicadude]

And the myth of the Tiger Tank, that was easily knocked out of action actually, remains.

[@jonathanallen3688]

If you're referring to spooks saying it was obviously sarcastic. But yea sad it still a thing ppl think.

[@otavio8566]

You should give the Puma a go, i have been seeing that scout car in almost every match. From BR 6.7 to 2.3

[@deltachoco8991]

Puma at 6.7 can even kill t26e5

[@qee4617]

Germany lacks scouting vehicles from 3.0-6.0, it's usually more experienced players spawning them in, putting the prem Pumas in the TT would fill the lack of scout vehicles

[@8076A]

Looking back 10 months at the irony of Spookston using CAS and in current vids sounding like they're about to cry any time a plane engine goes over-head. Amazing.

[@natey9190]

Tiger repair costs: 1-2k IS2 repair costs - 5-6k german truly suffers man

[@AdmiralJT]

Poor 5.3 Germany, always getting stuck on long range maps where they have advantage and can just camp spawn all day and barely be touched by most guns frontal... My general experience as a Russian semi-main. Where I have to shoot a tiger 5 times in side with my PT76 because why would ammo explode... Oddly when I play Germany then, its all close maps and i still 1 tapped through angle... Just usual War Thunder does opposite of what you want crap... Any one that thinks Germany is disadvantaged at 5.3 just don't know how to play the tanks.

[@rebelblade7159]

Camping doesn't always work. You'll often need to take capture points and this is where you can find problems due to poor reactive mobility of the Tigers and Panthers who can't turn that well like Shermans or T-34's. Funnily enough, I find the Nashorn doing surprisingly well here.

[@EasyAL_YT]

Poor Russians with near magical angle performance, KV 85 at 4.7 and a broken 4.3 lineup.... I feel so bad for you.

[@IceAxe1940]

@@EasyAL_YT Germany and the USSR both have broken 4.3 lineups.

[@bro3217]

@@IceAxe1940 germany does not have a 4.3 that's broken at all bro, half of them are casemates

[@IceAxe1940]

@@bro3217 They can bring up multiple vehicles from 3.7 that were at 4.3 previously the Panzer IV H and J, Stug III G, and the F2 are still viable, Jagdpanzer 38, the Emil, Flak Bus, not to mention their CAS around the BR, plus all of their premium tanks the KV 2, and premium T-34 and Churchill.

[@from_George_with_luv]

Just try 5.7 For me it is always either down tiers or same br and you have a better tiger A better 2 panthers The DO335 b2 The bf109 k4 to clean the sky or a fw 190 The wafflemaker that is an amazing sniper with a low profile as well as a couple of other cool stuff

[@Kupica23]

Dont forget the m410 b6-r3 , i like it more then the do335

[@from_George_with_luv]

@@Kupica23 that’s also good Germany just has so many Jems at those ranges that it is impossible to name all

[@u.s.sseattle9599]

Waffenträger gives me brain tumors It is (along with the Nashorn and Sturer Emil) I bring at least 10 HE on every tank I have that has a gun above 50mm. Also if you shoot 75mm HE at Hetzers machine gun you can kill it Panthers i just go barrel then tracks Then every German plane the P-63A-10 and P-47D-22RE

[@justzzzx623]

@@from_George_with_luv Jems

[@adamszentesi2021]

I love how the background music is from generals… what a gem

[@Scongi]

So. Basically germany only suffers because of the team? Yes.

[@TaronTT]

Finally someone who adressed this! I think in RB the BR's are okay/slightly too good, but in AB stuff like the Tigers and Panthers definitely should all go one BR-step upwards. (Though, to avoid compression, probably a few more tanks down the line need to do so too).

[@yamatokurusaki5790]

No they should they are okay where they are you can kill them as easy as they can kill you

[@Robomann]

actually no.

[@angelofpain3890]

This video didn’t age well “TigER h1 5.3” 🙄

[@itsjeff4174]

It’s not the tanks that suffer but the teammates

[@SuperCookieGaming_]

the only way to kill a panzer IV/70 with a sherman (75 or 76) is to shot trap on the mantlet with m61. i have only done it with a jumbo because it can sometime take a shot it.

[@asphaIto]

I just don't get it how people struggle in Tiger I.. Powerfull gun, armour is amazing (when angling) and acceptable mobility day #6 of asking spookston to play zachlam tager

[@threadschanged4252]

could be the CAS or the fact 1 tiger can't effectively fight with 2 or more enemies engaging a pretty common thing for heavy vehicles

[@asphaIto]

@@threadschanged4252 I don't know if this was me being lucky but i defended A point while 3 T-34s were pushing me

[@threadschanged4252]

@@asphaIto it's odd i played a game where i got 8 kills with the h1 and no death while angling then the next match i would do the same in the next game and get hit once in the gun breech shortly before exploding

[@asphaIto]

@@threadschanged4252 you probably got unlucky, and thats okay, but you may not agree with me but tiger just should be at 5.7

[@mrchiddlesticks1061]

It’s just the teams often. As you note in the tiger problem video. I had a game, of course it’s anecdotal, where I got 14 kills, my squad mate got 12 at 5.3 Germany and we lost. Everytime we’d drive to another objective the one behind us would get capped

[@kaiozanette7787]

The golden era of this game

[@kasualmechanic4854]

The Nashorn is a forgotten gem of 5.3, because especially on the long range maps like firearc or eastern Europe, you just find a good treeline to sit at, and basically lock down the whole map. Like I have had times where I have gotten a double ace with the nashorn on Eastern Europe, other times I have literally run out of ammo. And then you have the Waffentrager which despite its godawful mobility and nonexistant armor, it is so hard to spot. Like, imagine a Nashorn except it has a turret and it's literally impossible to hit at range. That's the Waffentrager. Like, after the Nashorn, german tank destroyers get progressively more and more broken.

[@pandesalexe9185]

Man the C&C generals bg music reminds me of the days where I'd farm tanks and troops and hide them somewhere in the map for an all out surprise attack

[@JokerSgen]

“It takes five Sherman’s to kill a tiger” then a jumbo Sherman needs five tigers to kill it then

[@KingTigerGuy]

the funniest thing for me is just how bad both sides are. most tiger players just drive straight and get flanked, and most allied players just shoot you in the toughest part and dont get why they cant aim center and pen.

[@lector-dogmatixsicarii1537]

The center mass aim thing has to be Germany Tries™. They get fed the mindset early. A testament of a true allied team vs suffer is to count the amount of planes in the air and cringe as you play AA and die to overpressure from a huge miss.

[@exoticdachoo007]

I'm one of those people who rushed the Tiger, and while I wasn't the brightest player of course, playing it for the first time has to be the most fun I've had in the game. I knew it's armor wasn't the best and I remember distinctly that I had a group of randoms talking tactics in chat. We won the match and was my first ever 12 kill game, a record thst I only beat recently with the god damn PT76

[@ballen6400]

Love the choice of music at the end of the video, bringing back good memories.

[@abderu.6947]

Germany suffers has to be my favorite video game related niche meme ever

[@konstantinosjatagandzidis3361]

The MK in MK 103 stands for "Maschinenkanone"

[@tuanzixiao3666]

pov spookston when he complains about the gun depression "oh i got 7" (meaning 7 degrees) pov me when using is2 (soviet depression)

[@kaiderbrecher9642]

He’s like standing there and all of sudden looks at a random street in a random direction 300m away and there pops out a tank.. And I can’t even see the targets standing right in front of me 🥹🥹

[@TemperateGreenBananaClassic]

I got up tiered against these yesterday and I got 6 kills zero deaths in a KV-1 and my team was spawn camping within 2 minutes. They were pretty incompetent because about 75 percent of my shots didn't pen. I was very surprised to be fighting tigers as I thought it would be a while until I saw them.

[@somekindoftea2862]

"I'm like a minature A-10" *also uses a plane double the size of an A-10*

[@Ranchplaysgames]

Oh Lord the pt76 players name at 3:21

[@katgut]

Dam this goes hard, we should move up the 76 jumbo again

[@yourfriend4104]

Why german suffer: doesn't use cover and actively drives to open fields as if it can't get penned

[@paul.facciolo6985]

4:00 OMG I CANT BELIEVE YOU CALLED THEM MARK 103S WHEN THE MK ACKSHUALLIE STANDS FOR MACHINE CANNON

[@lord_o_muppet]

You made 5.3 full of smart players now.... It's constantly local panthers in your area

[@lector-dogmatixsicarii1537]

It is really annoying. The PzIV exploiters moved up to 5.3 to exploit since their late war PzIV's are obscenely low BR, but not tier 3 anymore. You notice an uptick in aiming for specific things... and there's the Chinese players...