Get Players to HATE Your D&D Villains (But not the DM!)

[@denniscastello504]

Great video - love the tips. I agree that there are much better ways to introduce those really villainous NPCs that you want your players to hate. Yes, I’ve killed PCs before as part of a storyline, but it’s alway been in collaboration with the player, and as soon as that player’s PC was out of the action, I had something else for that player to do - another character to play, or an NPC to RP, or they helped me run bad guys. I feel like it really takes advantage of a friendship to intentionally kill your buddy’s PC, and then make them sit around for the rest of the game while everyone else gets to play. Even though Lars may have known that his character might die in the session, they way it was done left him sitting out of most of the game and that’s just not a fair way to treat one of your players.

[@ZipperonDisney]

Thanks so much for the complement! I know you as a real thought leader in the community, so I'm thrilled you like this!

[@Hjernespreng]

Worth noting that Matt said the PC death was *PLANNED* from the start between both himself and the player. That wasn't something he just inflicted upon some unprepared player.

[@WisdomThumbs]

"And that's what makes Robert E. Lee such a great villain" THANK you. I'm descended from his sister, and I'm sick of all the people who laud him as a great and honorable hero. He hated slavery, and he even wrote to his wife about how evil he felt it was ("like all institutions" or something like that), *but he betrayed his principles and allowed his soldiers to capture freedmen as slaves.* He didn't even want a civil war, but he helped lead one because he felt his loyalty to Virginia came before anything else. The greatest thing he ever did was convince his own army to surrender, rather than fight twenty more years in the hills, because Lee's best character trait was that he could, finally, admit he'd been *wrong.* "It's all my fault," he said after Gettysburg. He died blaming himself for a hundred battles and countless deaths, because he was, indeed, one of those at fault. In fiction, that kind of character can be defeated with rationality and diplomacy, but only after great effort and (usually) lots of sacrifice.

[@ZipperonDisney]

Well said!

[@simmonslucas]

Dude, quickly becoming my favorite channel. Can never have enough good DnD channels!!

[@ZipperonDisney]

Thanks so much! I really try and put out content that D&D channel's don't. I got a new video I'm editing, but first I gotta run a game tonight!

[@TheyDarthElmo]

Advice I got from an experienced DM "If you want your players to go where you want have the bad guy steel their stuff they will track him down to the ends of the earth" I think that can definitely be described as a type of hate.

[@Maninawig]

What is interesting is how little you need to take... the rogue's lucky coin, the wizard's wand, the paladin's emblem, the nobles documents of pedigree.. that which they value with sentiment is all it takes.

[@andrewthomas9476]

I had a stuck up mother of one the PC's. Who unintentionally became one of my most hated characters and i loved it. She told one of the players how they were reckless and childish, they should listen to more important people. And keep their lips sealed more often. The best part of that character? Morally she had the high ground. The player couldnt argue back. I felt bad. And it was great

[@Maninawig]

Yikes... the Holy Karen.

[@jgr7487]

kill the puppy you gave them, not someone from their backstory. doing the latter is how you get a whole party of orphans who have less attachments than a Jedi!

[@ZipperonDisney]

Making absolute statements is good for youtube videos, but in reality everything needs context and discretion. I'm no Sith!

[@VisonsofFalseTruths]

So what you’re saying is I should have Gar Shatterkeel drown the group of owlbear cubs my party adopted while making them watch helplessly

[@snuskogrusk]

Excellent content! I feel this channel is a hidden gem

[@ZipperonDisney]

I think so too! ;) I'm glad you like these vids - it's encouragement like this that makes me want to keep on making them!

[@birdobrine6925]

After a session I made an incubus make a player kill a random nice old lady, I put in my d&d chat "Wow, can you believe Maddox the Incubus and totally not me did that? What an ass. Him not me."

[@ZipperonDisney]

:P

[@Spiceodog]

what I found really made them angry is betrayal, also, disrespecting there own blade, especially when that sword is the sister of one of the players favorite magic item I ever made for them. I knew it would get him angry, but damn, I got much more then I expected out of that.

[@Maninawig]

This actually helped me with constructing my current character: a Faceless Half-Elf. The concept I was going for was splitting the halves, having the human guard Quinn transform into the "alter ego" drow monk Efferil whenever he draws his grandfather's cursed shortspear. Quinn needs to become strong enough to suppress this curse before he succumbs to it, becoming the catalyst for the BBEG's prophesized return. While Efferil is actually the prophesied hero, I wanted work with my DM to hold onto that misconception as much as possible: hiding the transformation so nobody knows they are one in the same, having Efferil act questionable in battle, and only showing up in high risk times (such as a pit of shadows while in an anti-magic barrier). Adding the tips you mentioned (such as having him kill off the party's "totally not a scrying tool" dog) would really help sell him as a BBEG and paint his good actions as your last point... the "I wanna like him"

[@evanmurphreegamble575]

I love this style! I really appreciate the more digestible format, and here is still so much information packed in here! Thanks for the insightful video :)

[@ZipperonDisney]

Thanks! I like this one too!

[@ArcaneCowboy]

Nice. I like the comments on the end on Lee. Well done.

[@jeremypiles1787]

This is great stuff man, and smoother delivery. Good work

[@ZipperonDisney]

Thanks so much! I'm really trying here, and it's so nice to get a complement :)

[@Scitscat111]

I really think you give the best advice for D&D. I watch alot of videos and your videos are always inspiring.

[@ZipperonDisney]

Awww shucks! THANK YOU! I'm so happy I gave you something interesting to think about. Please share how you use any of these tips in practice!

[@Scitscat111]

@@ZipperonDisney Will do! I'm new to D&D and I am currently DMing my first campaign and I spend alot of down time trying to become better. The video you made about making combat quicker was great! Keep up the awesome videos!

[@ZipperonDisney]

Trying to improve your DMing as a craft is the mark of a great DM!

[@t.h.mcelroy6597]

In Matt's defense, Ajax has been a major villain in many of his other games - very much the MCU Thanos of his universe. And these players are not new to the character (although this is the first time they've actually met him, I believe). I think he did well by his crew, but not necessarily the best presentation for a video podcast. Excellent video!!

[@ZipperonDisney]

I can't stop thinking about the $100 spent on the custom mini and paint job...

[@t.h.mcelroy6597]

@@ZipperonDisney haha yeah, but if it makes him happy, more power to him!

[@MrZelaos]

I came here from your recent video on reddit/dnd and have watched quite a few of your other ones already. Really professional man, great content, clearly spoken and the production quality is excellent. Then I realized you have 400 subs?? Crazy! I can only see you growing from here, everything is there. Keep it up, good luck.

[@ZipperonDisney]

I only had 200 last week! Thanks for the complement - really makes me feel good :)

[@jordanflutes]

The way both Negan and Alpha were introduced in The Walking Dead had this effect on me!

[@legladiateur9070]

That was just simple and perfect ! thanks for it !

[@ZipperonDisney]

Glad you liked it!

[@patryklesnau4388]

Great video! One of the bests! I have watch so many of them, and none was so good! Big thumb up !

[@ZipperonDisney]

Thanks a bunch!! I'm working on another video about villains - be on the lookout for it soon!

[@rtdrtd123321]

great video! hope your channel gets some traction!

[@coreyeatsdetroit9733]

I appreciate that you don't ramble. Thank you.

[@allisonniesen3230]

All good ideas! I've been playing with a couple like this on and off... I know I got my players mad at a villain of mine when he, through legal means, took a ship my players rightfully commandeered. I just didn't want them to have a ship at 2nd level, but it kind of worked perfectl y in that they HATED that villain for thwarting them so early

[@ZipperonDisney]

thanks for sharing :)

[@BrickDevilTributes]

Where you can have BBEGs who loath the NPCs and often times are just in the background, mine is in the forefront currently pushing them in the direction he wants. He's given them plenty of wealth and a few bits of magical knowledge, but nothing that could compromise him or his goal. I felt that this would be more effective, as previous DMs have just had the BBEG as a background, and the group didn't really care for that. I've been sprinkling hints as to what his goal is, though a lot still remains to be shown/played out. He's even traveled with them for a few sessions, though that will likely change once they focus on some subplots I have going on behind the scenes. This won't always work for every group, but experimentation is always KEY to DMing. :) I'm also gonna use a "rude" bad guy in the form of a Demon, who's in direct opposition of the BBEG. This should help to bond them with said BBEG more, and when the bitter betrayal begins, it'll hurt more so given that by then, they'll know his personality and motivations.

[@ZipperonDisney]

I think you're touching on the difference between an active and a passive villain. Which is probably a topic worthy of its own video :)

[@natwon633]

My take on this, for the puppy, yes, if you just want a force of nature villain, just a monster whose sole purpose is being evil for no reason at all (works for monsters, fiends), but if you do human(oid)s, give them a reason, give them a goal, give them something that makes sense. (A certain writer with a dislike for dogs does the same thing for his maniacal villains, that are just evil because they are assholes really) Heck, for a hit and run, it's usually financial problems. Of course there are people doing it just for their own amusement, but honestly, they make for a good minor villain, but for the BBEG motivations that the players themselves can sometimes even sympathize with, make it so much more worth it, when they bring them down. "Did we make the right choice?" "We saved the world, but they did have a point." "We are heroes, but their ideals were on the right place." 3:04 feels still like denying a backstory IF the villain has really no reason to do x evil thing to get back at the Player Character. If the character's ties live in a bigger city however, that bbeg wants to loot through, makes sense. But if it's some minor settlement somewhere in nowhere, it feels incredibly cheap. But other than that, good one for force of nature villains! If I make a fiend who wants to simply torture the party, I will thankfully steal all of those. This is great advice for "chaotic evil maniac" which I actually have one in a campaign.

[@TristenRS]

Hey Disney! I am wanting to run your Ice and Fire one shot this Sunday, did you end up getting a small module written out? If not it’s not a problem, I think I have a few cool spins on our amazing content.

[@ZipperonDisney]

Tristen Milne here is the folder with all the docs. I haven't written it out as a formal adventure, but this is all I use to run it at cons: drive.google.com/drive/folders/1iH-j9iZlqXP-Y7Ne-XJERCK_wZWk9Gse?usp=sharing

[@TristenRS]

Zipperon Disney sweet sounds good, thank you for the link I was hard at work last night. I’m super excited for the giant room.

[@shineyblade1]

Love the video! I’ve only seen 3 of your videos so far and my DMing has improved so much! The puppy tip is why I like letting my players create NPCs for me to run in the world, letting them do that gives me a puppy that can potentially have a very deep connection to them as players. Which is a great motivator for them when the NPC they made gets kidnapped or maimed. ;) (I’d only kill the NPC if it’s a direct consequence of their actions, and only in service to the story. I’m not so cruel as to give them puppies only to kill them in front of them for seemingly no reason)

[@ZipperonDisney]

Glad to hear it!! How did you off the NPC?

[@itsturtlefacemydudes]

What happened in The Chain? I've never heard of it before, what did the villain do?

[@ZipperonDisney]

It was Matt Colville's stream. half a million watched the first episode, then only a fraction tuned in for episode 2

[@gho5trun3r68]

In episode one of MCDM's The Chain, Matt's villain kills a player's character. Listening to the Campaign Diary afterwards, it wasn't too bad of a decision because his players know him as a DM and saw it coming a mile away. But according to Matt, his intent was just to have The Chain's job go South, it just inevitably led to the killing of a specific character. In all honesty though, any DM can do this as long as they let the players know ahead of time: 1. Have a backup character ready in case it's you that is buying the farm 2. Have it in the session zero. Let the players know that this session is meant to be the introduction rather than the full game. Give those two points, which Matt did, you should be fine. And it worked. The players really really hate the villain and even after they complete their job, they have said they would still have this personal grudge against Ajax the Invisible.

[@Jaxtor1]

What a great video! I know it's old but I'm so giving my current group a puppy!

[@heyitsMattyP]

My campaign is based on revenge, so in the first session I set up five people who wronged them in some way, but only three registered as lasting enemies on their radar. The one they hated the most was person who accompanied them on the adventure, saved their tails a few times and joked around with them, but let the party take the fall so she could escape arrest.

[@ZipperonDisney]

Excellent!! Betrayal is a constant theme in the games I run, but that takes the cake.

[@heyitsMattyP]

There's plenty of cake for all of us!

[@1973Washu]

@@ZipperonDisney Recruiting another player to be the villain and giving them a massive power boost and then have them reveal themselves as the big bad just as they thought they beat the main villain of the story and wipe the rest of the party and then do victory laps bragging about how great they are and how everyone else sucked for not seeing this comming will probably generate a tonne of bad feelings. The story ends badly and can't continue from there so all you have done is rob the players of a happy ending, and make them hate you and the player you recruited to be the villain.

[@havilar3095]

Great tips in gona have to use them in my up and coming Cures of Strahd game

[@ZipperonDisney]

Glad I could help. One of the things I love with that book is how they gave you a whole page on how to best RP Strahd!

[@lonigaming5880]

Very insightful, I‘ll make sure to use these techniques!

[@axbx7139]

Funny enough, when I've started Curse of Strahd, I've decided to take quite the opposite course: I was trying to make PCs like Strahd. They would kill him anyway (because he's crazy), but I wanted to make him a guy you are interesting taking to

[@ZipperonDisney]

That's a fascinating take on Strahd

[@axbx7139]

@@ZipperonDisney thank you!

[@majoradam96]

Great video, I will be using these tips especially the puppy one! (Am I the bad guy....)

[@because7896]

After killing puppies for a few weeks, I make sure to give the opportunity to actually save a puppy now and then. The stakes are higher because they know they could easily fail, and are kept high because they know they can win. At least sometimes.

[@RIVERSRPGChannel]

Good video and information

[@ZipperonDisney]

Glad you like it! This is one of my favorite videos :)

[@foxunix101]

I guess I kinda took their puppy from them hahaha. In the form of gold. I had a pirate captain of Lusken rob them in the streets. It was kinda a impromptu encounter where I thought they would fight. But they were worried they would die so they got “taxed” by the pirate hahaha. They had a letter saying they were immune from such and the pirate asked to see it. 😈😈 then he tore it up and smiled. I am running STK and now all my PCs want to do is find that guy and murder him ahhaha. I made a villain by accident really but now I need to prep for revenge. Any ideas you want to share? Ps your videos are awesome

[@ZipperonDisney]

People love poetic revenge. Is there a way you can have the captain need a treaty/ deal with an ally of the party? They can catch wind of it an intervene at the last moment?

[@mikebrown293]

Make more!

[@ZipperonDisney]

Woking on it! Got a new one out today ;)

[@brabra2725]

What did Matt do?

[@ZipperonDisney]

Have you watched the start of his streaming campaign? IMO, terrible, terrible DMing...

[@brabra2725]

@@ZipperonDisney I didn't.

[@brabra2725]

thanks for the info.

[@an8strengthkobold360]

Matt gets brought up alot.

[@ZipperonDisney]

Yeah, I do a lot of commentary on other DMs' work

[@aureliomanalo]

It's an easy reference point, like The Wizard of Oz. Everyone has watched it.

[@samtheskoolie]

don't kill puppies

[@lornevirgin410]

I enjoy your videos immensely and have subscribed. I would be hesitant, however, to call Gen. Lee "evil". He is a better example of a character torn between multiple loyalties and seeing no good outcome available. Keep the videos coming, great advice.

[@ZipperonDisney]

Oh yeah, definitely not EVIL, but a flawed human like the rest of us. It's easy to sympathize with his dilemma, which is what makes him such a compelling historical figure. At the same time, I feel like we can't give in to the temptation to create an unassailable icon of Southern dignity and virtue while ignoring the fact that he did wrong. He held people as slaves, and fought to keep that system in place. Yes, we are all prisoners of our times, but there were voices calling out what we now see as the obviousness of the truth - all humans are equally worthy of respect, dignity and freedom. Have you watched my three axes video? It starts with a 4 minute dive into Lee, his overall brilliance and his failures at Gettysburg. kzbin.info/www/bejne/r4nQfmlmg9F8mJY

[@mitchellbrady7448]

And not all DnD villains have to be evil. I like seeing my characters clash with a tyrannical lawful good ruler who has the best intentions, but whose actions are doing more harm than good.

[@AppledirtArchive]

This is D&D, not John Wick. Also, I find that method pretty cheep, not just in D&D but also in tv and video games. At least with the way movies often do it. If a connection is built up first, then it's good. But a lot of things rush it and use the fact that they're a puppy to justify why you should hate them.

[@cocolcp]

Thats why he talks about giving time for the players to fall in love with the puppy. Then it actually hurts when the villain kills it. Someone else in this comments mentioned a pirate "taxing" the players, and they hating him afterwards. Thats another "puppy".

[@minnion2871]

@@cocolcp Of course you don't have to actually Kill the puppy..... Just put the players into one of the following situations in regards to the puppy.... Old Yeller: Their precious puppy is now a threat to them and others.... If they don't put it down it will continue to be so, and it's the villains fault that it's a threat. "Big brother Edward....?" moment: Basically something horrible has happened to the puppy, it's still alive and suffering because of it.... While not a threat the players may be tempted to mercy kill it. (Of course if you really want to twist the knife you could give the players hope that they could combine the above, or give the players hope of fixing the problem without killing the puppy only to have the villain pull a Handsome Jack on them and kill the Puppy anyways or maybe both...)

[@andrewhinson4323]

Robert E. Lee was a great man, no matter how you slice it. To ignore everything else the man said and did, and simply say "yeah but he fought for the south (which is only partially true and extremely overly simplified)" is to engage in gross historical revisionism and anachronistic armchair moralizing. To extrapolate that because he fought for his state and its affiliates that he was a supporter of race-slavery is simply factually incorrect. His behavior after the war alone is a direct condemnation of such clumsy analysis.