Getting a Handle on Animal Companions

[@Zedrinbot]

Just cause every comment section needs a Pathfinder Evangelical, I really like how PF2 handled summons and companions and how nicely they fit into the 3 action system. Each companion requires 1 action on your part to grant them 2 actions. So one companion is effectively 4 actions spread between you and your pet, summon, Eidolon (which PF's summoner is obviously the influence for Soul Binder). If they come from different sources, the most you can command on one turn is 3, giving up all 3 of your actions to give each of them 2. This keeps action bloat manageable, and they're statistically slightly behind the players so they don't upset the action economy. (Typically 1 'player action' is worth 2 'minion' actions effectively, math wise.)

[@asquirrelplays]

I've only played one session of PF2 and it was at a higher level, but nobody had any pets/summons. That said, I could easily see how the action point system would lend itself well to keeping that balanced. I've also heard countless good things about how well PF2 balances things in general, so I'm not surprised. Interesting that their summoner is the inspiration for Soul Binder though. I might have to go read up on it to see how similar it is. Makes you wonder why the guy didn't just play PF2 instead. EDIT: I should also clarify that yes, I did have a good time while we were playing.

[@Ranked_Journey]

My same thoughts exactly.

[@ZarHakkar]

RIP Peanut

[@sprinklesmckincles726]

I know this is gonna be like 5e focused, but that’s the only system I have good knowledge in. Learning other systems, but just starting in others. I don’t like animal companions in base 5e, kinda in general really. Because my main problem is they don’t give the feel of “person and beast working together perfectly.” They kinda just end up being boring to play with. Sure the roleplay can be fun, but I think that shouldn’t sacrifice gameplay. Although, a homebrew 5e class that I think does animal companions amazingly is the Beastheart. That class actually makes it feel like you’re working together with your animal companion, and you’re also not even limited to beasts.

[@asquirrelplays]

That's why I thought the Soul Binder was so interesting. At first it really makes you feel like the companion is part of you. Like you have some invisible tether between you at all times and are connected. All your stats, abilities, and potency add up to "basically" 1 person. But then it just falls apart. Not familiar with the Beastheart. Might have to give that a look just to see how they do it.

[@sprinklesmckincles726]

@@asquirrelplays I'd really recommend the beastheart. You get your own versions of maneuvers that can work alongside your companion. One such as you and your companion smack an enemy between each other, causing a lot of damage. Plus, they have a handful of companions that aren't a "one size fits some" template. They're all unique and even have their own attacks and actions they can do. I've had a few people play one in games/oneshots I've been in, and they always have fun with it.

[@BuilderB-dt1f8]

11:25. Now that’s how you analogy. & I just love make believe standards 3:33. I would state that most standards are make believe, but aaanyway… 9:00?! How many emotions involve 😭? Laughter, joy, pain, sorrow? 💔🐉 I’m not crying YOU’RE crying. 📖👏

[@asquirrelplays]

I would say just you wait for the next story but you already know how that one goes

[@AvenueStudios]

Haha spicy thumbnail and Star wars reference to start...this'll be a good video❤ Gotta get the drinks out for 5e shout outs 😂

[@asquirrelplays]

you must spend a small fortune on booze watching my videos

[@StagRPG]

I appreciate the love; thank you! 🙏

[@asquirrelplays]

I do what I can with what I got!

[@tyrargetlam]

Phew, at least this squirrel is still alive.

[@asquirrelplays]

So far!

[@Skellybeans]

Good soldiers follow orders...

[@asquirrelplays]

man, that show didn't always hit the mark, but when it did, it hit dead center and way harder than it needed to. I can't even remember if they used that line in the movies or not.

[@JeffsGameBox]

Best squirrel on KZbin. 😁

[@asquirrelplays]

awwww shucks, thanks man

[@cafecrayon0]

Hi all, Ghouls make... lousy dog owners. Noted. As for love and attention, let's roll... a 4: mild interest and occasional handshake.

[@asquirrelplays]

mild interest is better than no interest!

[@AvenueStudios]

We just move on quick is all, appreciate the mutt while it's here but don't waste pressure resources on mourning😂

[@retrojon_]

7:45 Look ma I'm famous! 😆

[@asquirrelplays]

Don't forget about us small people

[@crallsfickle2994]

Animal companions part 2 here we gooooo

[@asquirrelplays]

I feel like a lot of these videos that aren't TTRPG reviews could have a part 2. Heck, the reviews probably could too.

[@puddel9079]

I once played a session of D&D 3.5 where a druid's (large size) bear companion grapple and pin one of two (huge size) green dragons for the entirety of the fight. IIRC, we were level 10. I call it the Judo Bear Incident.

[@asquirrelplays]

Honestly if I heard somebody mention "the judo bear incident", I wouldn't be able to NOT ask questions. 10/10 hook

[@cobinizer]

Justice for Peanut.

[@AvenueStudios]

I def agree that sharing action economy with companions makes them much less OP and flows pretty well from my experience. PF2e does that but gives a little by you spend 1 AP and your companion can then spend 2 (move, attack usually). And I think it can totally work for scifi, steampunk etc cuz whether it's power armor, bots, drones, etc your either moving with it or doing something to control/command so that consumes your action economy and gives it to the companion!

[@asquirrelplays]

"pathfinder does it better than D&D" - no surprise there 🤣

[@AvenueStudios]

😂💯

[@AeciusthePhilosopher]

For combat, I could also see them working as a weapon of sorts - basically a token you move around and use your (or I guess for a class based around it, it's) relevant abilities from; and that might even serve as your mount. It's a bit less simulationist/symmetrical than might be desired, but it could go a long way to having the companion be a thematic factor without being its own seperate entity with everything that might entail. it might also work really well for players that don't like their animal companion being a target that can be killed; since the companion itself isn't targeted separately from the player's character (they might share an HP pool if you want the companion's token to be a potential target).

[@asquirrelplays]

I didn't even consider the pet mount angle. Kind of surprised, actually. I know playing as a goblin with a pet warthog you can ride or whatever is kind of a silly trope players like to do, but I can honestly say that's one thing I haven't had to deal with.

[@LordRodri]

Fungoli mentioned 🥳🥳🥳

[@asquirrelplays]

🍄🍄🍄🍄

[@BunnyWitchcraft]

My personal preference for animal companions has always keep them away from the combat pillar of play. They make excellent narrative and roleplaying devices and can even serve ss a potential gm mouthpiece. Familiars are also a bit touchy, since 5e treats them as disposable rc cars with cameras on top. For something more mechanical, I'm currently enjoying the excellent Fabula Ultima, and their take is interesting. If you take the wayfarer class, you can grab the faithful companion skill, which lets you design your own npc and grab a couple of npc abilities! It's very cute and can serve as a good way to pick up something useful like healing, but isn't really intended to be a combat powerhouse. It also can't die, just flees, but death in FU is entirely dictated by the PC in that system.

[@asquirrelplays]

Interesting! I feel like getting to design your own companion strengthens your bond with it a bit more. Design as in getting to pick abilities/mechanics that it can do, on top of all the regular flavor you would normally give it. I unfortunately don't know beans about Fabula Ultima, but the fleeing mechanic seems interesting as does the idea of letting the PC dictate death. Might have to read up on that one.

[@BunnyWitchcraft]

​@@asquirrelplays Highly recommend it! It strikes a good balance between easy and lightweight and still having some fun character building options. Plus it highly encourages the PCs to be very hands on with worldbuilding and the like. It's all very in flavour if you like classic JRPGs.

[@twicedeadmage]

I like Dolmenwood's Hunter companion. Easy and at least my Hunter Player likes it. The biggest bonus is that they don't check Morale, so the Mastiff goes from a ticking bomb from a reliable companion.

[@asquirrelplays]

Unfamiliar with it, but I just went to search and found the kickstarter for it (assuming I found the right thing). It sure is pretty looking. Some of those art spreads remind me of Samurai Jack. I'm gonna have to dig into this one a bit more.

[@twicedeadmage]

@asquirrelplays In summary you can only have 1 at a time, it must be under or equal to your level, domestic and wild are fair game, giant or magical beasts need DM approval, it understand commands even if naturally they wouldn't and they never check morale. Hunters in Dolmenwood are great: no magic, animal companion, bunch of skills, better with ranged weapons, and Trophies (if you hunt a creature you can take a Trophy and as long as you have it on you or your home you get +1 in attacks and saves against that creature). I've been loving Dolmenwood for a while now, I recommend it.

[@SageMasterRPG]

Did you ever watch the movie Beastmaster with Marc Singer? If not please do. Good video, thanks for making it.

[@asquirrelplays]

I have not. Is this the right one? www.imdb.com/title/tt0083630/?ref_=ttfc_fc_tt Cause if so it looks terrible in the best kind of way. God bless the 80s.

[@Ranked_Journey]

I feel like animal companions mostly gets their bad rap from D&D, particularly 5e (in part because animal companion is D&D terminology). I have played several sessions that included an animal companion in Pathfinder 2e, and they caused zero issues. Minions in general has a robust system that interacts well with Pathfinder's three action combat, and the multiply attack penalty (one of the things that make companions worthwhile is that they don't get your attack penalty, meaning you're making an attack with a better to hit bonus, which is worthwhile even if it's weaker). I have also played with companions in City of Mist several times, including a character who used summoning extensively. Due to how the system works your power budget is seamlessly distributed between you, and your companions/summons. It also doesn't do anything to hamper the narrative combat as the companion(s) can either be used to do their own thing, or seamlessly combine their action with your own. You also had a sort of animal companion in Only War (a Warhammer 40,000 role playing game focused on the Guard by fantasy flight), which is called your comrade. What your comrade does is get hit instead of you one out of ten times, dying if anything hits them twice. Which means a squad of 8 or 10 guardsmen only needs 4-5 players, with half the soldiers being expendable (narratively), a great way to show the meat grinder that is life in the Guard. Now comrades do have some perks which can give them some utility, as well as letting them provide some slight buffs in combat. Still, having a wingman that is less capable than you is nice.

[@asquirrelplays]

5e is absolutely to blame for the negative outlook on animal companions/summons. That's just the nature of the beast when you're the most popular/well known and do something (arguably) not well. Being around as long as it has just adds to it too.

[@TheGoldenPhoenix-nm8qe]

In a family campaign, my Elf Wizard character has an owl familiar that I have forgotten about after we entered undermountain.😅 I, personally, will treat animal companions similar to Pokemon. You use your action to give a command to your Animal Companion to take an action, as long as it makes sense.😁 Though, Darkvision doesn't let you see details, only silhouettes and simple shapes in shades of gray. If that makes sense to you.🤔

[@asquirrelplays]

Do you get to say "it was super effective" when they land a crit? 🤣 Also, yeah, I know dark vision doesn't quite work like most people think. But for those mushroom guys in particular it made sense for them to be able to see clearly. It was when they got in brightly lit areas they struggled

[@TheGoldenPhoenix-nm8qe]

@@asquirrelplays Ah. Creative.😄

[@stm7810]

meanwhile in GURPS there's night vision where dark is degress less dark, and dark vision which is a fully supernatural advantage that lets you see without light or another form of em radiation.

[@TheIoPC]

Dan & Kristen = The worst? .... Yeah, alright. 😛 ~ Adam

[@asquirrelplays]

every time!

[@little_isalina]

honestly the only problem ive ever run into with animal companions in actual play is travel. The companion is one more target for your wizard to have to teleport, has to fit into a ship or onto a cart so it doesnt slow down the party, and bringing your bear into an inn will probably get the locals a little agitated.

[@asquirrelplays]

ha! That's one of the many things I hadn't even considered. Bringing a bear along could be problematic. I don't know how well they travel long distances. I guess some creatures could make travelling easier since you could just ride them, but there is the storing problem. Interesting!

[@Ranked_Journey]

Your bear doesn't need transportation, nor housing, he is a bear, he is perfectly capable of traversing the wilderness with or without you, and to show up anywhere you need. He also does fine by himself outside, or in a barn or stable.

[@justinblocker730]

Are Animal companions bad? Short Answer: No, Long answer it is complicated. It's a mechanic that you can write down, but I just tend to keep it in memory. Mainly I ask the player: What do you want? A Pet: Great it's flavor, will never be hurt, but can not do anything useful in combat. You want a companion? So some function and utility. The companion will have HP and can be killed. Lastly there are summons/familiars which 80% fall into companion bin because magically bonded critter, or magically made friend, is just an extension of you. 20% flavors are often steeds for travel, or a magical eye ball you slap up somewhere, and they have a pretty fixed effect location etc.

[@asquirrelplays]

I'mma have to remember the sticky eyeball trick

[@Spiceodog]

Ok but how is 2024e?

[@asquirrelplays]

haven't even looked but if I had to guess I'd wager it's even more problematic. And I say that because what little I have seen of the other classes, it looks like things are just getting mad buffed, which means more stuff the players get to do, which means even slower combat.

[@blackphidora]

Not first. Or first Probably

[@asquirrelplays]

You are first! At least from what I'm seeing you are

[@stm7810]

animal companions can be like any ally there's a balance of their being there and fun and them not taking away from the players. it's fun when magic is real and so is my frog, but a player spending ages with a wolf that they didn't spend character points on or use skills with to tame is annoying. seriously, hot take, ally costs points for a reason! Yes, once again GURPS does this, compliance roll to see if they obey, their skill, if they're below IQ 6 like most animals are they can't really understand language or tools, and in general their lack of fine manipulators matters. they're mechanically no different to buying any other ally, it's just an animal companion would likely be worth less points than you, like 50%, and appear always or mostly always. In my TRPG design animals act how they want, GM discression of their instincts with the exception of any training/coordination, be it that your soldiers retreat when you say or your dog fetches on command.

[@asquirrelplays]

GURPS GURPS GURPS GURPS. I kid. But yes, like anything it's something to balance. I didn't bring it up in the video but something else to watch out for are the magical creatures that are being controlled by a wizard or whatever. If the wizard is controlling them, then they would be able to do things like open doors and switch levers without issue, which opens a whole other can of worms.

[@stm7810]

@@asquirrelplays yeah, I love point buy systems for this reason, you can't just get lucky and have a dog who wil grab a stick in their mouth and safely disarm a bear trap or a swarm of bugs that know how to use a phone. that's going to cost the same stuff used to make the player cool. if a boy and their dog act as 1 unit they're similar in power to 1 of the other characters who lacks a companion. it's a mechanic I am experimenting with right now for the TRPG, both with smart companions with a slime who can use language and tools, and in the full control approach, where my veganism is showing since I refer to that set up as slavery.

[@asquirrelplays]

@@stm7810 I was just talking to someone earlier today about making a campaign where everyone plays as slimes escaping the "level 1 adventurer dungeon" and going on their own adventure.

[@stm7810]

@@asquirrelplays that sounds like a lot of fun, I'd love to try playing a game like that, good mix of stealth and scary slime stuff.