Getting Perspective: Tesla FSD Beta 10.69.3.1 (First Test Drive)

[@JohnVanDeVoort]

Overall - this was a very successful drive with FSD controlling the car's driving and navigation for almost all phases of this drive. This is video 2 of a planned 3-video series. The next one will have Jason back in the driver's seat. You can find his podcast On My Drive Home at: www.onmydrivehome.com or in the usual podcast feeds. Please check him out. Feel free to share your thoughts from the drive or scenarios you think would be helpful to test/retest. As an engineer and pharmacist, we both enjoy seeing how things work, from our different perspectives.

[@fluffy24]

what a beautiful cameras setup!

[@JohnVanDeVoort]

Thank you ;)

[@lancejones4636]

Ya, really nice view of things.

[@Gnosim]

These are cool conversations to have from two very different people. One thats a regular Tesla driver with FSD driving experience and another with very little experience. Trust in the system takes bit of time, both for the EV driving dynamics and the FSD.

[@JohnVanDeVoort]

I agree 💯

[@johnrahn2677]

Thanks, I like the conversation which gives more personal peprspective.

[@JohnVanDeVoort]

Thank you. We envisioned it feeling like the viewer was in the car riding with us. I’m thankful for the feedback.

[@techgeektesla]

I love your wide view camera, the passenger commentary, and the passenger facing camera at the top. Brilliant setup.

[@JohnVanDeVoort]

Thank you. I used an Insta360 camera mounted just below the mirror, then flipped the video and placed a mask over it (in the shape of a rear-view mirror) to give the wide view similar to looking into a mirror). The front-facing view is actually from a Go-Pro mounted on top of the Model Y (so no mirror or pillars in that view). I was going for a viewer experience of being in the back seat with us, along for the ride. I've had other feedback about it too - I may need to do a behind-the-scene video of the setup...😄

[@elsamuraiguapo]

Indicator signals when turning left or right on to a new street comes too late. It only turns it on like 30 feet or so before the turn it should be more like 100 feet.

[@SteveRowe]

John, really enjoyed your passenger. Good discussion, good chemistry.

[@JohnVanDeVoort]

Thank you! Jason and I have spent a few hours together flying an airplane around. Transitioning to Tesla's autopilot feels familiar to us, just in two dimensions instead of three ;)

[@martindbp]

Like your videos, very chill! As an AI engineer, I expect Tesla to implement a "safe/comfortable speed detector" network pretty soon. It would not be difficult to mine cases from the fleet where people are going slower than normal, and use those to learn an appropriate speed based on what it sees and perhaps accelerometer data (detect bumpy roads). This would help solve going too fast on snow/ice, in pitch black conditions, heavy rain, fog etc without having to explicitly mine and label examples for those conditions, and hard code some logic for the appropriate speed.

[@JohnVanDeVoort]

Thank you for the engineer insight. Also for the compliment :)

[@JohanNordberg]

Like the layout of car, road and you guys.

[@larrydeal9635]

Excellent video. Loved having two different points of view. I got beta last week and my biggest criticism is the aggressiveness, even in chill. Rapid acceleration is appropriate on an unprotected left but totally unnecessary on a normal right turn in a neighborhood with no traffic. I’ll take safety over smooth but looking forward to a gentler ride someday.

[@JohnVanDeVoort]

Congrats on getting beta! It adds a new level of paying attention when you drive, but fun!

[@alright272]

I agree. One of the things these self driving car people are not thinking about is adjusting for terrain. That is the only reason my mom especially will not use cruise control.

[@JohnVanDeVoort]

Yes, I thought that Jason brought up a great point with that. It can feel especially rough with the factory suspension and 20" Induction wheels on the Model Y.

[@alright272]

@John VanDeVoort for sure. I mean they have the capability to do that, especially on other vehicles. Like i know bmw and genesis have a front camera that senses the bumps in the road and prepares the suspension for them. So they could even use data like that for adaptive cruise control, yet, they don’t.

[@vpxtrailers9395]

For me it does a great job at the fundaments but the biggest issues I have is it getting into the proper lane in time. I’m in Georgia.

[@Tom_McMurtry]

You can put it in chill mode instead of aggressive. You could also peg the speed back a little with the scroll wheel when going through zones you wish to be slower in

[@JohnVanDeVoort]

Good thought. I usually keep it in the middle (average, right between chill and aggressive). I like average because it doesn't wait so long when making lane changes to move around slower highway traffic.

[@switzerland]

That was a great ride, thank you

[@JohnVanDeVoort]

Nice compliment - thank you!

[@JamesBond-qv2ht]

The two biggest issues I have noticed is that braking is still a bit harsh at times, esp. when a car is crossing the road perpendicular to my lane. And on unmarked roads, the car still stops unnecessary sometimes when another car is passing in the opposite lane. In this scenario, the car still turns the wheel toward the oncoming car rather than away (a bit unnerving for both drivers). Otherwise, this build is great.

[@JohnVanDeVoort]

I will watch for that scenario during my drives. It'll be fun when V11 drops to see how much has improved still again.

[@bugatti8470]

🔥

[@djgoodguy3681]

The true performance of the FSD can only be appreciated when tested during San Francisco rush hour. A test on an empty road like this one can be done without any problems, even for a $500 car made in China.

[@JohnVanDeVoort]

If only the Bay area had some snow, too. Then we'd have some fun :)

[@gshaw6756]

So much of this ride they are just talking non stop. Meanwhile, the car is actually driving very competently. It’s BETA and every time you think “that sucks” it is learning. I am more optimistic 2023 will see the progression of “9”s than ever. We’ll all see. And many of us finally will be part of the solution by providing the needed data for training the NN.

[@JohnVanDeVoort]

Yes, we were going on a bit in conversation. But, your point is spot-on: throughout this, the car was doing its job well.

[@TeslaElonSpaceXFan]

Thx.

[@jackattack237]

Fun fact I just learned this but when you say bug report, you can also describe why and it says it in the tesla manual too 3:04

[@JohnVanDeVoort]

I heard that as well. Thank you for sharing the additional info.

[@Dubitz]

I believe Bug Report was only for infotainment software related bugs, not Autopilot/FSD beta related bugs. That being said, I didn't know there was a "Bug Report" voice command!

[@73av8r5]

So earlier on my way to work I was in the right lane of 2 left turn lanes. When the light turned green it flew over into the other turn lane. Not sure why but it was pretty jarring 😯 Seems very herky jerky to me. By the way, were you driving on Thanksgiving? No traffic at all.

[@JohnVanDeVoort]

We drove the day before Thanksgiving, at noon. It was pretty quiet. I think most people skipped town to visit family, or we’re still at work. I’ll try to watch for the dual turn lane scenario. I have a few of those on my usual drive routes. Thanks for the comment.

[@kriskros91]

I don't think "bug report" should be used the way you are doing it. It is bug reporting that is local to the car only. It is meant to be used to generate a log that will be reviewed by your local Tesla service center when you bring it into the shop for servicing. The report does not leave the car or get uploaded to the FSD team. It is not meant for FSD reporting.

[@JohnVanDeVoort]

I'll re-familiarize myself with that process. I recall reading information to use it as such, but that may have been dated or inaccurate. Thank you for the feedback.

[@ChiiBomb]

I wonder how a new model without USS does with FSD

[@JohnVanDeVoort]

It's supposed to be the same, since the software is using cameras now (Tesla Vision based FSD(,

[@ChiiBomb]

@@JohnVanDeVoort I know some of the features people had with USS aren't available still for non USS vehicles so I'm iffy on taking delivery this weekend.

[@inversionproduction]

Can you get the full self beta version with the subscription?

[@JohnVanDeVoort]

Yes, it is available. However, Tesla selects FSD Beta based on safety score. It’s not guaranteed, but is available with either subscription or purchase options.

[@jessiejanson1528]

I think as of today anyone with FSD beta can get it regardless of safety score. whether everyone has it yet i dont know. but pretty sure musk said something about rolling it out to everyone that has a car capable of FSD and that has bought or subscribed to it.

[@jessiejanson1528]

2:18 This isnt so much a bug as WTF were the engineers that designed that road thinking? That lane should have had arrows to show its turn only far far far far back. thats a highway! Who in their right mind puts a right only turn with a 6 inch cement barrier in the the middle of the highway?? 1 little sign thats easily missed isnt good enough. I can guarantee you that accidents happen there. 4:45 (roughly) It doesnt handle school zones specifically. there is nothing inherently dangerous though. for areas the car isnt programmed to deal with, its up to the driver to take over or adjust the speed. So simply having the driver adjust the speed down during those times where you need to go slower is perfectly safe, it still avoids pedestrians regardless. Drones on the other hand have a history of people flying them into restricted space over airports or in flight paths and have nearly resulted in several planes crashes. I think the situations are incredibly dissimilar. The drone wont avoid a plane on its own. the tesla will avoid pedestrians on its own, you just may need to slow the car down to have its speed within the law until tesla teaches its cars to recognize active school zones. 9:36 i think you engaged it with no view of the stop sign while being pretty far forward so it probably just drove forward and slowed down when it saw a car and then realized 'i need to go' and just went. 11:10 you said you hit the accelerator. You should try that turn again but from further back so the car sees the stop sign. I feel like it would have done a batter job had you not started FSD where you did. 13:50 (roughly) The car wont slow down unless it thinks there is a traction issue or the road is too small to allow for higher speeds safely. Even without being aware of the concept of snow, it still has world class traction control and while ive seen it slip a bit while coming to a stop, its never slipped too far and can still handle the turns just fine, my only recommendation would be to manually set its speed to be lower so it can better handle snow and to have snow tires as well. 19:40 (roughly a bit later) the car sees the giant status of people and slowed down and didnt speed up. It seemed the car may have been confused by their height thinking that they were potentially closer then they appeared to be since humans normally arnt that tall. It wasnt until the car got vary close that it realised they were way off the road and no longer anywhere near its path. It didnt seem to mark them blue or anything, but im not sure why it would have slowed down otherwise and then not sped up.

[@JohnVanDeVoort]

Thank you for adding in thoughts. It's a little challenging during the drive to catch everything. Good observations.

[@jessiejanson1528]

@@JohnVanDeVoort Yes for sure. many people that make these videos tend to miss little things. some have avoided commenting during the video entirely and adding comments later, but its a lot of extra dedicated time to making videos. some people seem to more or less question themselves like 'that looked too close to me, but maybe to people watching you can see something on the screen that i wasnt able to'. i suppose nobody likes to have things pointed out. but nothing you can do about missing stuff. you cant watch the screen and the road at the same time and we have the ability to rewind ;D

[@VishnuKamath]

How does the software behave to 1st responder vehicles?

[@edhill8568]

That functionality has not been added yet. Will need to wait for a future release.

[@jessiejanson1528]

interesting question. For highway driving autopilot would slow down or move over for emergency vehicles since there were a few such accidents in the past, HOWEVER on average, there were far fewer of those types of accidents with teslas because the car forces the driver to pay attention. The real issue here is that "some irresponsible drivers dont watch the road no matter what car they are driving and will hit emergency vehicles. these same drivers still look away even when in a tesla, and despite the car being safer, those drivers would still look away and cause an accident". Since that update to recognize flashing lights, there havnt been any such accidents, which is also why the mainstream media no longer complains about it because no other car on the market can avoid them. Which btw, when those accidents were possible, they were still possible for all vehicles, the mainstream media just likes to dump on tesla any time someone farts. Now there interesting part of all of this is that tesla with V11 will be using 'one stack' of code VS one for highway and one for the city. That 'avoid emergency vehicles' code was in the 'highway stack'. That stack will no longer be used, so has tesla pushed the emergency light code into the 'one stack', are they leaving it out? This is something nobody has asked about yet and id like to get an answer regarding it.

[@edhill8568]

@@jessiejanson1528 Not sure this answered the question asked. What FSD doesn't do is pull over when 1st responder vehicles are going to an emergency with flashing lights/sirens on.

[@jessiejanson1528]

@@edhill8568 thats not surprising, but when its one stack, will it move over one lane on the highway to give a parked emergency vehicle more room? that was highway stack only logic.

[@edhill8568]

@@jessiejanson1528 Initially I wouldn't expect that behavior on the highway but only time will tell. I think it's much more important for FSD to pull over when driving on non highway streets so emergency vehicles can pass.

[@JeffKubel]

Still no yield sign recognition. I can't believe they are going general release while still blowing through yield signs. Someone's going to get hurt.

[@JohnVanDeVoort]

My observation is that it is heavily favoring traffic and non vehicle objects (such as pedestrians) vs. yield signs. My last drive video showed how the car goes through uncontrolled intersections (in residential streets, where no approach as a stop sign or yield sign). I normally would slow to check for traffic. FSD did not reduce speed, but no traffic approaching the intersection. I don't yet know that Vision and road mapping know the difference in intersection between uncontrolled and others where the side-inbound traffic has a stop sign.

[@TylerHilliard]

1:15 - why don't you take over to put it into the proper lane? Wouldn't that disengagement train it better and avoid unnecessary weird maneuvers? Imho too much "see what it will do" and not enough disengagement/training. FSD 10.69.3.1 is my first access and my experience is MANY takeovers every drive because I don't let it do things it shouldn't.

[@TylerHilliard]

Yeah 2:15 I would not let it go into a lane it shouldn't be then cut over a solid line last second - instead of bug report you could take over when veering into wrong lane showing what it should do

[@TylerHilliard]

Agree with the passenger 1000% - Chill mode isn't chill enough - isn't cautious enough

[@JohnVanDeVoort]

Tyler - thanks for the feedback. I typically will disengage when just driving around on FSD (not making a demonstration video). Although, I was pretty actively disengaging in my last video. It just wasn't being safe on snow covered roads.

[@mosulmedic7048]

I hate the " we need to regulate this further" conversations regarding this. The story relating the drone operation is also pretty irrelevant. That's state specific and also drone dependent in most states. Not being able to operate near schools is due to protecting the privacy of minors from predators. It has nothing to do with physical safety. And even then, is dependent on state regulations. The only limitation to FSD as of right now has everything to do with other drivers. The biggest feedback is " what if another driver does X,Y or Z??" Followed by " well the car was too cautious so another driver got impatient with me" The current limitation is NOT " well it just ran over a bunch of kids". It's as safe as the driver behind the wheel. Which is no different than literally any other vehicle on the market currently.

[@JohnVanDeVoort]

I actually don't think/desire it to be regulated. I think the comment was more from a sense of curiosity that the artificial intelligence isn't refined enough to determine when the car was entering this specific speed zone. It also doesn't detect posted speeds on sharp corners (at least that it displays on the speed limit sign on the touchscreen). My drone gives a warning when it is about to enter restricted airspace, but that is more of a factor of database lookup using GPS position data when flying. The drone does allow me to override this. An option for caution message in the car could be helpful, that the driver could enable if wanting the extra layer of safety. But, I agree against regulations that wouldn't be able to do what A.I. can do on a situation-by-situation basis.

[@1flash3571]

Asking for road condition detection NOW at this point in time is BIT MUCH. They have other pressing problems that needs to be fixed and detecting road condition is asking for too much. Just common sense things that should not be even considered for now. In the far future when the lvl 4 or 5 is achieved, then you can ask for those kinds of wants.

[@JohnVanDeVoort]

It might be, but doesn't hurt to get it on the list. I notice the car slows for tight corners already. It would be helpful for rough roads, especially with 20" wheels, to avoid a flat tire scenario (especially if potholes). Until then, quick driver intervention to slow the car is still needed. I think the point brought out in the video is that it is a technology already present in some other car brands, but lacking in Tesla (which is so far advanced in many other areas of driver assistance).

[@onlinework5290]

Scary that you have to test it in a real environment. Not many will test it like you. And you do send bug reports lol wtf

[@jessiejanson1528]

nah its fine. the car is reasonably safe. but the human does need to be careful. only real issues seem to be related to intersections and lines that arnt visible. but it seems to now be painting its own lines if there arnt any on the road. the car never seems to have any issue with hitting or getting too close to other cars. only accident im aware of is one where someone hit the tesla when they wernt paying attention in a turn.

[@JohnVanDeVoort]

The beta testing process is important for refinement. I don’t see many safety concerns at this point, just annoyances as compared to how I drive. However, I do pay attention and am ready to take over at any point during FSD drives, as all beta testers are required to do.

[@catbert7]

Not allowing FSD to be used in school zones wouldn't make any sense. The driver is still in control, just like every other car. FSD Beta is only a driver assist. If you didn't trust drivers to take over when there's a problem with FSD then you shouldn't trust anyone to drive there at all.

[@JohnVanDeVoort]

You're correct - I agree that it should still function in school zones. However, I've noticed that it isn't recognizing secondary speed limit postings (e.g., school zone speed limit, or lower speeds for sharp corners). At level 2, not an issue with driver in control. But Level 4/5 full autonomy (as Tesla's goal), Vision should at least detect those.

[@punjab1captain]

So annoyed, elon tweets we all have access in NA so i bought the $200 subscription and i still don’t have it

[@JohnVanDeVoort]

It is annoying. I did a video about the price increase to $15k and mentioned that concern as well. It should be made available with the cost of the upgrade.

[@martincossette7420]

Hopefully you don't have to wait long... Let us know when you do get it.

[@sanchez911]

Let us know if you receive it this month. Nevertheless I would call Tesla for money back. Then Probably you get it

[@jessiejanson1528]

well, the car does have to download it and im sure there are a ton of people trying to get it atm. it also depends if you car is capable of running that software. may need to give it a bit of time.

[@normvanduker9999]

I usually skip to the summary before going back to actually watch the video. I do that because the most important thing I want to know is if the software was able to safely make the planned drive. But you guys, in your summary, don't seem very interested in answering that question. You are so focused on your arcane criticism about "non verbal communication" that you almost completely overlook the more important issue about whether the car can safely drive the assigned route. Next time please spend a little less time talking about how "human" the drive feels in order to free up a little more of your attention to the issue of how safe the drive was. It's not that the "human" issue is unimportant, but you are so focused on this secondary issue that you literally bury the lead and hardly ever talk about whether the self driving software can actually drive.

[@JohnVanDeVoort]

That is an interesting, but valid technique (if in a time pinch) to watch the summary. Good feedback. I didn’t realize that people may skip the video and usually just think of the summary (wrap up) as highlights from the drive. From the video demonstration, FSD did a great job diving us around as we conversed. I’m always watching for safety issues, but didn’t have to think about mechanics of controlling the car (steering/accelerating/braking) since FSD really has that dialed in.