Ghosts are OP in Beyond All Reason Too! Guide & Commentary

Beyond All Reason Gameplay - Check out BAR for FREE here: www.beyondallreason.info/
Map: Koom Vallery 8v8
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Winterstarcraft, Beyond All Reason, RTS
#BeyondAllReason #Rts #Wintergaming

[@TheLingWhisperer]

Winter, you've evolved immensely as a player just over the past couple weeks. Since you started, you've begun using combined arms tactics, repeat build ques with varied unit comps, playing the intel game with spybots, cameras, and jamming, using EMP, managing build power and ramping econ with reclaim or gifts. Makes me happy to see you didn't reclaim the t2 factory to build the gantry in this game. It seems good for pushing your timings forward but you just sacrifice too much utility and support in exchange for that extra metal. Winter, you've come a long way in a short time, and though it's no surprise that doesn't mean it isn't satisfying as hell to watch. I hope you keep making tons of BAR videos, I'll watch and like every single one as soon as they come out, it's entertaining as hell to watch. Protip... a mobile jammer in a flying transport keeps jamming even in the air. This can be used for shenanigans.

[@hekk870]

The energy costs for ghosts and spectres are the same, the upkeep increases when they're moving.

[@theslicer4430]

professional caster

[@the1Blind]

we get what we pay for ;)

[@EugeneParallax]

Some thing to note for Spectre/Ghosts, is that they also can be used to reclaim, though its counted as an attack and decloaks them.

[@RedSpatulaRTS]

Nice I'm in this video against you! I was the noobiest player there and got wreaked. I enjoyed the game though =)

[@lokimckay]

Hey Winter, I was sneyed in this game Great video, it was good to hear your thought process throughout the game and remember back to what I was thinking at the time. I thought I'd share what I was thinking / some responses to what you said in the vid - maybe it could be helpful. 5:30 - I knew I had a bigger army than my opponent at that time and could control and eat the wrecks after the combomb and also delete his defenses in the process. I don't think this was a questionable decision and I also don't think I was losing my lane - my opponent whacking up a few LLTs at halfway doesn't stop me from doing anything. I end up getting about 3.5k metal from the wrecks. 11:15 - I got the metal from eating the 2 com wrecks. Not sure what you mean about giving up a lot of ground, if the enemy runs forward I have some blitz's ready to cover the open ground. 16:07 - I have a radar toward the middle-left half of the screen - it was good to move it up closer to halfway though as you did. 18:00 - The reason you can't see the sheldon ball is because they have a mobile jammer walking with them, not because of a lack of radar. You can see I have a radar in the middle of the screen. It was good that you had a spy bot ready. 29:30 - You can reveal stealthy units with an "intrusion detection system" it makes little red raindrop circles appear where invisible units are if they are within it's range. Both factions can build one

[@BlueTemplar15]

Yeah, I don't understand why he turned off radar view, since lack of dots inside it generally indicates a jammer, meaning you're less surprised by it ?!

[@apcfire]

I really like having the variety of content and the way you're doing this. I'd say keep playing around with the format. It's all been pretty interesting to me.

[@maverickkhofanda3539]

after playing 10+ games, maybe these styles can be good ideas: (1) full game commentary, more like your SC2 pro casting and let us enjoy your spicy comments (: (2) guides: topic focused: a) openers - for 1v1 & 8v8, and bots & air, frontline & backline b) cheese - both rush & greed c) important tips - like AFUS build order, vision, and midgame checklist (antinuke, antiair, antistealth) (3) "angry coach" style, the idea is to find common mistakes and learn from them (this video feels close enough) please do add more if you guys had better ideas!

[@Jan4GER]

I'd say keep it as you go for it. It seems natural to explain what your thought process is, what to think of, what could have be done better etc. I enjoyed it as it was in this episode quite a lot. I think as you pick your games and specific scenarios come up, maybe different builds and situations, you will automatically switch the kind of commentary but it'll generally stay the same overall. And to look at certain units is also very interesting. I never look at the actual stats of a unit and hope it just does well. To actually get super detailed about it is a real gamechanger for me. Thanks alot dude for this content you make. Its been a blast for me

[@bluu.0111]

Need to use more spybots myself, though I use cameras a lot, since they counter the radar jammers. Also, played with you this weekend and I barely held onto the front while you swung from the bottom and killed the enemy. Thanks for the carry! -Salvare

[@batailian3687]

I liked the one player perspective with the basic commentary!

[@peterfranz286]

I like the whole view and more knowledge based videos - I don't play the game despite watching a fair bit and so its nice to know what the units are supposed to do and some stats.

[@darkranger116]

solar being a "loan" is a great way to describe it

[@OMGSoothsayer95]

The depth BAR offers is really engaging

[@Angel90011]

looking at the "apm" stat screen u can tell u click a lot more than the rest and are used to sc2 madness ;) If more players from sc2 start picking up this game and putting the same dedication to learning and making build orders in this game I think it would be amazing to see where it goes

[@maverickkhofanda3539]

love your commentary! thank you winter for introducing us to this amazing game

[@michielmons]

33:06 haha the instant regret and slight discomfort that comes with it. Funny. Anyway, good commentary. I learned a little bit more from it.

[@gilles22]

i really like those video, either you talk more about the build, the general state of the game or your personal experience. Thanks for the time your putting for us to enjoy !

[@schoenperkins8210]

“Oh boy! My second tank! Time to start harassing the enemy and making-“gets mobbed by 40 rocket bots

[@mrpotato8985]

You can build Intrusion Countermeasure System it will show invisible units on the map.

[@doctorhitler466]

pleasure to watch, learning a lot, thank you for the content :)

[@testname123]

I like the cast after with manual control. You don't have to stay zoomed out the whole time though. Loved the new attempt at a sign out catch phrase.

[@eggos5074]

winter checkout the countermeasures build item it negates spybots it detects them. They should make spybots detect each other give some counterplay or defense besides the one build structure.

[@bradleyreed8876]

I'm learning a lot from these BAR games with commentary. Thanks!

[@rouvey]

This is a really great format, very engaging!

[@poetspot8400]

That was an enjoyable watch and I appreciate the breakdown, very nice. Just seeing your thoughts on everything while replaying was very nice.

[@Youwanttodream]

Love this format winter !

[@HansPeter-xy7sl]

@wintergaming funfact water energie converters to metal have an even better conversion rate

[@coenvanpoelje5498]

I learned so much, thx winter!

[@platysplatys3967]

You can detect them in large radius with t2 detection thingy. Perimeter something. Always worth yo make one in your base at least. Keeps your anti nukes safe.

[@zacharywood3182]

Love it. Great showcase with both essential strategy for the newbies and advanced tactics for those seeking additional polish.

[@shadow7988]

Those bombers were just brutal on both sides. Always so satisfying to watch a big carpet bombing annihilate a base.

[@DarklandServers]

Loving the beyond all reason content! Need more 🎉

[@jdave16]

I'd love to find some more people to jump into the discord servers voice comms and play that way. Voice chat can save so much effort instead of having to type everything out.

[@AidanNaut0]

I see BAR video, i watch it, i comment in it, i like it, i subscribe to it

[@krux02]

I also like to build the cloaked metal extractors on the front line. They often don't get spotted, and if, they explode and stunn the enemies, very useful. But I am no pro play, I just think it's fun to do so.

[@calebshort2169]

loving the content can you do as video that is all about the keyboard commands and what to use and how to use them like a real in-depth one

[@combs3445]

Never in my life did I think to use the stealth radar units to EMP bomb the enemy. That’s genius

[@David_Brinkerhoff93]

this format is best.

[@TheBargles]

Spybots rule. Even just to give LOS they can tip the balance in a fight

[@rogue-ish5713]

I say, switch up the setting when you are playing BAR. Imagine what your command center for your battle group would be. This is coming from a long time SC2 fan. Beyond that, the layout of the presentation is pretty good. Def getting BAR related Gifs and Memes as well.

[@the1Blind]

If you're explaining, it should be from all players view except to make a point, like for example greens vision against your spybot (28:23). That said, there might be value in showing a player working with incomplete information, which is such a huge deal. So in conclusion, I'd go for a solid "it depends".

[@RyeRaven]

could you do an overview of the hotkeys? my brain doesnt really read the key tab very well and having someone go over ingame got keys in detail would help soo much

[@tandarenz]

I personally like the whole view more, Epic RTS for a reason YEP

[@Gnat-Swarm]

Just a note: "sabot" is pronounced "SAY-boh" (emphasis on first syllable)

[@manumaster1990]

nice

[@willeatpants7691]

Three Australians on winters team!

[@iliasshogenov5929]

Hi. I would appreciate to see a guide to air combat and efficient conrols :)

[@andyderp6473]

Welp time to enjoy this hitting me now

[@kiler273]

11:18 he got 2 comm wrecks

[@jacktracy7839]

Such a cool game

[@T0tenkampf]

is there a building that doubles as a sort of ad hoc metal storage that could be used during short term gluts like recovering an enemy commander versus wasting time on a storage building?

[@BlueTemplar15]

Yes, they are literally called storage.

[@zacattack32441]

In the Gauss cannon vs Sabot, the DPS is almost the same but the burst is different. Gauss cannon is 675 vs the Sabot 852. Being able to almost destroy a Fiend in 1 shot is a pretty big difference.

[@BlueTemplar15]

Also being arced plasma vs missile might be a big deal in some situations ?

[@zacattack32441]

@@BlueTemplar15 I don't think those 2 are plasma artillery. That's another building.

[@TheJackOfFools]

I like the "total" view when you comment, maybe switching to a specific view if you wanna see if someone notices something they need to. And I like seeing your games, and then commentary in that order. Guides are nice too, but while SC2 guides got me watching you, I prefer your other stuff now.

[@jlokyo180]

T2 counter-intrusion facilities hard counter stealthy base infiltrators.

[@whiskeythetwisty5564]

Can you start uploading your twitch live streams to KZbin, or at least parts of it?

[@cadorin4294]

Any particular reason you don't use radar jammer bots in your battle group? (love the name btw i'll be using it from now on to sound badass)

[@patrickschutz8511]

what a great game

[@miszcz1983]

dunno if my voice counts but i like live commenting even if you are busy sometimes

[@JokeofAllButts]

Smort winter. :D

[@MelKaven]

Looks like its time for you to join the big boi lobies :]]

[@JadeSune]

Stay Unreasonable. Alright, hey.

[@SawyerKnight]

the mouse tracker stops to show you were a click happens right?

[@danielmartinezmartinez441]

So the moreale of this video is: build anti-intrusion facilities. Right?

[@isitanos]

Epic spybot use there

[@HagalazI]

If stealthy boys need a nerf you might do it by buffing the intrusion countermeasure or giving it something else to do. As it stands you don't ever see them being built much.

[@bogdankozak7656]

First of all countermeasures detect movement not a spybot itself, thats why they are called stealthy. They ment to be a unit that go behind enemy lines and make sabotage or stops army in small area. Spybots are slow, low hp, energy heavy and need to be controlled by the player, they can be stopped really easy even without countermeasures: scout/cheap units, cameras, hell make line of fire so they can't go near you or build a WALL. No need to buff or nerf anything. Buffing countermeasures then spy bots become obsolete by placing 1 building, wich is not an option in game like this. Nerfing spybots and they will not be worth your money/micro investment.

[@HagalazI]

@@bogdankozak7656 I was replying to Winter's comment that they might need some work done. I've never actually noticed anyone build a countermeasure. Would be curious to know what other people's experience has been. It's probably I haven't seen an effective use of cloaked units to merit a countermeasure on either side. In either case I see the spy bots as being in a good place and wouldn't want to see them nerfed.

[@bogdankozak7656]

@@HagalazI The stealth and invisibility is under utilized probably as much as paralyze units were back then. That's why they can be a table turn move if done in right way and right time. Remember the moment when Winter got behind enemy lines with leopard(electro tank) and destroyed enemies eco, he could have added a couple of armada t2 stealth tanks and with them he could breach stalemate even earlier, though they are slower but have same effect as air drops but with more surprise effect. Same with mine layers, cortex crawling invisible bomb, cortex commando with twitchers air drops, tactical rocket launchers, t2 spider bots with all terrain... There is so many tools to play with, that will give an advantage in stalemate or boost your defense that frontline units can't do. Sadly all those options are forgotten during the match because of many other things that needed to be done in short period, and also because of current meta mentality that simply goes into range and firepower, which is strong but also cost big investment on mass to be a game ender. It makes some games really long and eco spam rushed, which can be avoided if playing as Winter said "combined arms" tactics not "big stick beats harder".

[@BlueTemplar15]

Also because they require so much micromanagement (delayed self-destruction, no EMP if killed !), they are almost impossible to balance across all skill levels...

[@cirno9349]

I’m trying to get out of turtle mindset of supcom and it’s not easy

[@catbert7]

18:30: Damn. That was really good, but it would have been twice as good 2 seconds later =o Or can you not get detonate if you get revealed/killed? Yeah, I've been surprised people don't use EMP more; seems really strong. Then again, they won't even build AA, after seeing a teammate die to Bombers, so...

[@BlueTemplar15]

Nope, if you get killed, no EMP for you (unlike for the Armada cloaked mexes), that's why spies are so tricky to use !

[@xFlazz]

I think it'd be better if you put the camera on player view, not player cam. That way we can see the same vision you had while playing.

[@LeakysTV]

we want angry coach XD

[@retsaMwodahS420]

Using a starcraft background r u fing kidding that's the enemy of TA

[@jonbauml225]

Great game! Can you up load a couple vids a day? I can't get enough

[@BlueTemplar15]

He has more, including casting sometimes (typically towards the end), on his Twitch channel.

[@SleepWarz]

Gauss cannons fire over wrecks better than sabots

[@speedrunnercaliorda2787]

Do a little bit mire build analisys

[@billbutcher9236]

first person of your hero unit of choice next time, also x/10 ?

[@geraldleuven169]

Are these the final models for units in BAR because they don't look impressive.

[@skwerlee66]

one for the algo

[@fibonacci112358steve]

"Gauss" is pronounced "GOW-sss"

[@dominicm6144]

I like the game commentary rather than the details. But thats because I don't play this.

[@SomeUnsoberIdiot]

......coom valley? Really?

[@BlueTemplar15]

«Koom». But yeah, while I guess this might have been funny when the games were obscure, it's really cringe now. I'm surprised that the map got featured with this name, considering BAR's obsession for polish / wide appeal...

[@sordis3309]

Really wish you'd keep the camera at a fixed zoom level, at least for commentary, and focus on the fights sometimes. There's already a minimap for an overview of the battlefield. I seriously don't understand why you keep zooming in and out, it's so disorienting. Oh well, I tried, but I'll stick to your SC2 content.

[@redshot1015]

nothing slow about this game LOL.. i started playing last week