Giacomo Gianniotti: Awareness is the Superpower | The Man Enough Podcast

Grey’s Anatomy star Giacomo Gianniotti shares his experience growing up as the son of an immigrant and how it shaped him as a man as well as what he’s learned in his first two and a half years of therapy.
New episodes every Monday 🎙️ Follow & listen wherever you enjoy your podcasts 🎧 The video version of every episode and bonus features will always be available here and at ManEnough.com/podcast
GIACOMO GIANNIOTTI: AWARENESS IS THE SUPERPOWER
Actor and philanthropist Giacomo Gianniotti opens up about his experiences growing up as the son of an immigrant, holding other men accountable, and why he considers his beloved character-Dr. Andrew DeLuca on Grey’s Anatomy-to be the role of a lifetime. With humility and sincerity, Giacomo reflects on the role that therapy and his wife have played in his growth as a man. He invites us to get curious about our thoughts and actions, reminding us that awareness is a superpower we can all possess.
#ManEnoughPodcast #ManEnough #masculinity #undefined
The Man Enough Podcast is produced by Wayfarer Studios and presented by Procter and Gamble, in partnership with Cadence13, an Audacy company.
HOSTS: Justin Baldoni, Liz Plank, and Jamey Heath
JOIN THE MAN ENOUGH COMMUNITY:
Follow: manenough.com/podcast
Instagram: / wearemanenough
TikTok: tiktok.com/wearemanenough
Twitter: / wearemanenough
Facebook: / wearemanenough
Subscribe to the Man Enough newsletter for behind the scenes, updates, and sneak peeks of new episodes, as well as positive masculinity content: manenough.com/newsletter
Read the book: manenough.com/books
FOLLOW THE GUEST:
Giacomo Gianniotti Instagram: / giacomo_gianniotti
Giacomo Gianniotti Facebook: / ggianniotti
Giacomo Gianniotti Twitter: / giacomokg
FOLLOW THE HOSTS:
Justin Baldoni Instagram: / justinbaldoni
Justin Baldoni TikTok: / justinbaldoni
Justin Baldoni Facebook: / justinbaldoni
Justin Baldoni Twitter: / justinbaldoni
Text Justin: [phone]
Liz Plank: / feministabulous
Liz Plank TikTok: / lizplank
Liz Plank Facebook: / feministabulous
Liz Plank Twitter: / feministabulous
Site: www.elizabethplank.com/
Jamey Heath Instagram: / jamey_heath_
Jamey Heath TikTok: / jameyheath
Jamey Heath Twitter: / jamey_heath_
Jamey Heath Facebook: / jameyjaz
Site: www.jameyheath.com/
PRODUCED BY:
Wayfarer Studios: www.wayfarerstudios.com
Wayfarer Studios KZbin: / wayfarerentertainment
P&G Studios
Executive Producers: Justin Baldoni, Jamey Heath, Tarah Malhotra-Feinberg, Marc Pritchard, Carrie Rathod, Chris Corcoran
SPECIAL ADVERTISER OFFERS FOR YOU
BetterHelp
This episode is brought to you by BetterHelp. BetterHelp provides professional counseling done securely online. BetterHelp will assess your needs and match you with your own licensed professional therapist. Join over 1 million people who have taken charge of their mental health.
As a listener, you’ll get 10% off your first month by visiting BetterHelp.com/ManEnough
Brooklinen
This episode is brought to you by Brooklinen. Brooklinen’s biggest sale of the year is coming this weekend, which means you can get your interior refresh at really great prices. Don't miss out!
Go to Brooklinen.com and use promo code MANENOUGH to get $20 off, with a minimum purchase of $100

[@KateStrongHealer]

What a gentle soul Giacomo is. I love how unpretentious he is. Yes, a very humble man. I haven't really followed much of his career other than Grey's Anatomy but I'll be following him now. He will make a great father too. I loved how he has come to forgive his parents, and in particular his father, for putting him in the middle, and seeing things from their point of view, and realising what it meant for his father to leave Italy, so he didnt grow up without a father, even though life got in the way. Not too many people would do that. It's lovely that his parents have made their peace.

[@WeAreManEnough]

🙏Thanks for watching. Giacomo's realization of his own father's journey is a powerful part of his story.

[@sentientfetus3894]

These are fake tears the fact he's pro choice on the issue of fetuside means he never has bond with his babies in the first place. And if the babies is already dead it's not fetuside. .

[@charliemorningstar7251]

Giacomo and his role as Andrew DeLuca is my favorite thing. I'm a trans man who suffers with BPD (it is different from Bipolar, but some of the symptoms can overlap), and watching DeLuca's struggles with being bipolar, coming to terms with it, grieving over the diagnosis, and then accepting help, that's what helped me read into my disorder and want to be better, want to learn how to regulate my emotions. He doesn't realize the true impact he had on my life, how normal his character seemed in the beginning and how sudden the disorder snuck up on him, and how angry he'd been because he blamed himself for being like his father, that had such an impact on me, and helped me realize that maybe I'm not alone, maybe I'm not the only one who's scared of a diagnosis that seems so uncontrollable at times. He helped me finally accept my diagnosis, helped me finally accept that there's no shame in needing meds, therapy,l and taking time to take care of myself so I can help others, and that means the absolute world to me, because now I don't feel like I have to hide it or be ashamed. I don't have to pretend anymore, I don't have to hide me because there's only one me, and I am enough, I am worth something. I don't feel as alone and suicidal, because people like Giacomo, taking on roles and portraying the real struggles mental illnesses and how much it affects life, and how scary it can be. Thank you, Giacomo, and Man Enough, for all your support and love for people. It really means everything to me. 💜

[@WeAreManEnough]

Thank you for listening and sharing your story about the positive experience watching Giacomo's bipolar storyline on Grey's Anatomy and the Man Enough Podcast.

[@user-gk9os8vy9s]

LITERALLY SOBBING WATCHING THIS, it was do powerfull, my admiration to Giacomo grew up so much, thank you for having him, thank you Gicomo for being so honest, so open about your life, your family, your mistakes and everything

[@WeAreManEnough]

His journey, growth, vulnerability and self-awareness are inspiring!

[@sentientfetus3894]

If your a man and your baby moma killed your baby your not allowed by these very people to greave or speak out. . If this guy is pro choice on the issue of fetuside he never had bond with his babies in the first place

[@EricMHowardII-yh1rn]

It is great to hear people opening up their hearts wide talking about what happened to them wholeheartedly. Writing books Thank you.

[@MichelleEstrada]

Ugh so much of this is just like free therapy for me as a listener. I get so much out of hearing people just say things that even have only remotely crossed my mind. It’s like I’m having these underdeveloped thoughts and opinions but you guys bring them to life every time. Huge nugget: “Life is just easier when you apologize - you shouldn’t apologize to make your life easier - but that is a byproduct of it. But when you genuinely show up, people wanna forgive.“ -Jamey It just sounds like the truth. It IS so hard to learn the importance of it without actually doing it I feel that resonates so much especially bc that’s like going back to childhood! There’s so much of like “we’ll if you do good things good things will happen to you” is taught to you verbally but if you don’t have someone to model it someone who actually sticks to that it’s harder to believe it so if we don’t have someone growing up who apologized genuinely when they screwed up we never learned that like ok I’m still safe and I’m still enough and being wrong isn’t the end of the world or that it’s not even about being Wrong like Giacomo said. it’s just what you’re either taught by observing as a kid or you gotta figure it out on your own and get yourself to practice it once you’re older but that just makes it so much harder on us to have to parent ourselves. also pride is such a problem in Latino and hispanic culture too so especially in our culture it’s not just hard for men to apologize it’s also really hard for WOMEN to apologize. Like fully grown women lol I speak for myself too and I’ve mentioned this before too in a comment lol. And then you add all the ties men have around it about being “weak” or making you less of a man I remember watching NCIS and gibs the lead detective always told dinnozzo who like they had a sort of father son kind of duo and gibs said to him when dinozzo screwed up bc he would immediately go to apologize and gibs would be like “don’t apologize it’s a sign of weakness” and that stuck with me and I remember thinking this is why the men in my life must NOT do it lol I’m pretty sure I cried in those moments Me personally if I apologize I feel like less of a woman tbh just even thinking about it I feel like a push over which is another thing women are taught not to be! Like “be nice but not too nice” right!? As always, thanks for these talks❤️❤️❤️

[@samanthalangford6325]

As a Mum raising three boys this podcast makes me understand how to champion my boys better.

[@WeAreManEnough]

Love that. Our best chance of changing the future starts with the kids, and especially the boys.

[@sentientfetus3894]

If the guy is prochoice on issue of fetuside he never has bond with his babies in the first place

[@linaljp]

Also just want to add, I've never reached out and thanked Giacomo for his performance and delivery of Deluca and the character's bipolar diagnosis. The writers also deserve so much praise, because in entertainment bipolar disorder is often portrayed in characters that are murderers or deeply disturbed human beings that shouldn't be allowed in society. In reality, it's far from that. Of course it's a spectrum and that extreme definitely exists, just like murderers withouth the disorder exists. My family and my mother specifically, who is bipolar, is extremely grateful to finally see it being portrayed in a respectful way and also showing that these people AND their diagnosis have value. There is a lot of negatives that comes with the diagnosis but it's important to also recognize the positives. Lastly, how they portrayed the people around Deluca and how they handled it was just A+.

[@WeAreManEnough]

Thank you for your thoughtful comment and for sharing your first-hand experience. Grey's Anatomy has done great work in bringing awareness to medical and mental health issues in a positive way. How mental health is portrayed in film and TV is slowly improving with more and more storylines such as this and as celebrities and athletes speak to it in a way that normalizes instead of villanizes.

[@samgoof]

Great podcast. You can feel Giacomo's awareness in his approach and opinions. And speaking of awareness and doing the work, I feel you can see over the life of the podcast Jamey's intent to champion women whenever he brings Liz into the conversation (in my humble opinion). Always motivating to watch you all.

[@WeAreManEnough]

Thanks for watching! Growth never stops.

[@ifscarollyna]

I am very proud to be able to say that I have Giacomo as an inspiration to become a better person every day

[@WeAreManEnough]

What a great person to be inspired by!

[@KillerCameToTheRoom]

Loving this podcast so badly. As a young woman it has been hard for me trusting some men in my life, yet I trust the ones that are aware of their emotions and actions. Also, I’d like to see other type of professional roles in the podcast, more "manly" roles. Coaches, police officers, doctors, politicians, music business man, trainers, swimmers, porn stars, and so goes on! ♥️

[@WeAreManEnough]

Thank you for the kind words and the suggestions.

[@linaljp]

Might be my favourite episode yet. It just felt like a warm, friendly hug, despite the difficult topics.

[@jennydasrosenkind9989]

It's my 33rd birthday today, March 1st, 2022 and I came back to this episode and the Man enough Podcast because I really want to kick off the new year in my life with motivational thoughts, putting my best foot forward. As a woman, watching men have a deep, honest conversation about their own insecurities, about their upbringing and the way it shaped them, is honestly inspiring. It's valuable to see you growing and being brave enough to tackle even uncomfortable topics. I have great respect for your awareness and I definitely want to contribute to this collective development and continue reflecting on my life, my perceptions and my awareness. Also encouraging both men and women in my circle to question social conditioning. Thank you for providing insight into your individual journeys of growth. Giacomo really is a great guest for your podcast with a powerful story. He will surely make a great father. Thank you for having him.

[@WeAreManEnough]

Happy birthday! Thank you for being here and for your thoughtful feedback. We're so glad it's resonating.

[@GretchenHewitt]

Where to start.. So loved Giacomo's tearful response to Justin's talk with his father.

[@KlaudineePaz]

I just came from Justin's TED talk and I've been a fan of both of him and Giacomo for years. I teared up! As a poet, it really touched me and now I am more inspired to use and amplify the need to address the issue on the toxic concept of masculinity. Grateful that I came across this video, and that I am early! With everything Justin advocates for, I understand and can't wait for the release of It Ends With Us. After draining and unmotivating online classes, this podcast will be my new Monday routine.

[@WeAreManEnough]

Welcome to the Man Enough community, Klaudine!

[@melissagold9776]

Justin and Giacomo are two of my favorite actors of all time for so many reason so I knew I had to watch this and I’m so glad I did! I love that you address such serious topics and use your platform for good.

[@WeAreManEnough]

Thanks for watching! We're glad you enjoyed seeing your 2 favorites have such a meaningful conversation.

[@pattiboyle1862]

I am currently at 43 minutes and I had to pause to reflect on what Jamey was saying about the chisel and hammer daily approach. WOW. Beautifully-said! "Will they see me and women as others or will they see them as part of their life and circle?". This is so so important. So thankful for this conversation they are having!

[@WeAreManEnough]

Thank you. That is a really powerful image, isn't it?

[@emz5]

Wow love this, happy to see Giacomo on here too, such a great influence for our generation

[@sh4d0wbr4wl8]

I've always wanted to meet Giacomo. He is such an honest and kind man and the fact he's about his own difficult experiences makes me more inclined to talk about mine as well. I hope I can meet Giacomo one day and let him know how great of a person he is and how he's inspired so many people and thank him for being such an awesome person

[@hood589]

As a lady this podcast is the best thing i have discovered and listened to in Years and Years and Years. Thank you all so so so much. You’re all doing incredible incredible work. Love you❤

[@WeAreManEnough]

Thank you! We love you too.

[@Karie671]

I love that you all are doing this.

[@paolaabissi7694]

A podcast that really rich my soul ❤️ thanks guys 🙏🏻

[@mwihakimuchane4713]

To the entire Man Enough Podcast family, those we mostly see and those behind the scenes but contributing to making this podcast the impactful platform it is, Thank You! So so much! I love your work and what you're consistently putting out. It's beautifully lifechanging! ❤❤❤❤

[@WeAreManEnough]

Thank you for being a part of the Man Enough Community!

[@ifscarollyna]

what an amazing podcast i loved every minute

[@alineciola]

After this i admire Giacomo even more....thank you for this amazing talking...It was really inspiring even for me as a woman. ❤️

[@WeAreManEnough]

Thank you for listening, Aline!

[@kimdrury6184]

What a sweet lovely Canadian man...you make us proud!!! 🇨🇦

[@WeAreManEnough]

Our Liz is Canadian too. We love our neighbors to the North!

[@laurenziareimers2139]

You guys should do a talk with Jada Smith and the Red Table talk, I think this could be very interesting an speak to a lot of people.

[@WeAreManEnough]

We'd be so honored to have Jada Smith with us. We will definitely keep this consideration in mind.

[@boomerremoob2351]

The mania from DeLuca really affected me for SuM reason, nobody in my family has bipolar but it still hit because I really liked DeLuca and watching him deal with that crushed me which I have no idea why, but anyway, Watching that video while silently crying, inside my head “how awkward was that.. crying on camera like that, very strong and impactful way. Just the way he struggled like that. And I know it’s just a show but I was so affected for god knows why, but showing SuM clips to my mom, and watching this it’s just, it’s much easier. Your the most inspirational actor! Sometimes people tend to stereotype men actors to be self censored, *cough* Mr.Stamos.. and not usually very charitable stereotypes. But you just, are this amazing, charitable man who cares about people, and important funds. ❤️❤️

[@thomasthomasphilp4393]

Compared to other podcasts, I am listening here to amazing guests who have set forth their spiritual journeys to understand who they really are

[@WeAreManEnough]

Thank you. So glad these conversations are resonating with you.

[@AntoinetteMPetty]

I loved him in Grey's Anatomy and I love him in this interview. He really is a sweet guy and I'm thankful for that. I wish him all success in all he do in his life. Thank you Man Enough Podcast team 🙏🏾 💜👏🏿❤

[@WeAreManEnough]

You can see how genuine and kind he is. Thank you for being here.

[@PaolaPAbla92]

Giacomo is now an inspiration to me. As a woman who has been following him for a while now, I can see his growth clearly, and it's beautiful. A man who is trying his best to give only positive messages to his followers, despite the fact that he is not very pro-Social and tends to want to be as quiet as possible in his personal life. I hope he continues to have the success he deserves, thank you so much for having him as a guest and thanks to this podcast, finding out how awesome this man is. As an Italian woman I also thank him for talking about Salvini, who reasons in a very dangerous way thinking about Italians and immigrants.

[@WeAreManEnough]

Thank you for listening and sharing how Giacomo's growth has inspired you!

[@sedrashaker629]

Ur Prodcast Are so inspiring and changed my life in a good way

[@WeAreManEnough]

This is what we love the read!

[@alejandroagudelo4619]

I feel like talking about trust is very important. A lot of boys and men, and girls/women of course, are raised in emotionally abusive households and become emotionally abusive to other future relationships, like myself. I feel like people that grow up in these environments lack foundational trust in other relationships which can make it difficult to create and or maintain meaningful relationships. Idk I would love to hear an episode on that if possible!!!

[@WeAreManEnough]

Thank you, Alejandro. This theme comes up quite often. Karamo, Eldra and others have spoken about this. We have a few upcoming episodes that address this quite a bit too, and we'll keep this in mind going forward.

[@shecoversswift]

What an incredible episode and conversation❤ thoroughy looking forward to reaching his next appearance on the podcast🙌

[@sentientfetus3894]

If he's pro choice on fetuside he never has bind with his babies in first place

[@kimdrury6184]

Exactly we say sorry too much, just a word!!! But meaning "sorry" and a true apology as a grown man is irreplaceable, it registers so deeply with us women. Yes LA "hollywood" is even harder and more judgmental than anywhere, sad but true. Remember your roots and where you came from keeps you humble & "kind"!!!!

[@WeAreManEnough]

Well said about a true apology. The sincerity is healing to both the giver and receiver!

[@mcmadison3]

This was a great convo. My question is do any of you see a difference between making an apology and making amends? I feel like with an apology you expect a reaction and/or forgiveness. An amends requires nothing back. Thoughts?

[@WeAreManEnough]

That's a very interesting perspective and question!

[@suzettephinn7829]

Luca!! 😄😄❤❤ Great talk guys.

[@WeAreManEnough]

Thanks for watching!

[@vivianelozon4908]

❤❤❤

[@MichelleEstrada]

38:48-39:38

[@journeyhomewithballori]

Can we just multiply y’all for us single ladies??? Thankssss

[@WeAreManEnough]

Haha, not literally, but we're trying to help many more men grow like this through our work. Tell every guy you know!

[@utkarshnigam1464]

Feeding the algorithm gods w this comment

[@WeAreManEnough]

We appreciate it. :)

[@daniellui7901]

PLEASE FIND A HEBREW TRANSLATOR, I PROMISE YOU MANY PEOPLE IN MY COUNTRY WOULD LOVE TO WATCH YOUR PODCAST BUT CAN'T BECAUSE THEIR ENGLISH IS NOT ENOUGH!!!

[@WeAreManEnough]

Hi Daniel, it is available in Hebrew! Just click the gear icon on the bottom of the video player, then Subtitles, then Autotranslate and choose Hebrew. Thank you for being here, chaver.

[@bsdiceman]

v modas!

[@freefit34]

I used to really like your podcasts. However, now it all feels so contrived. More about three people attempting to prove their emotional maturity, than a genuine conversation. I can see the self-satisfaction oozing all over the desk and mics. A monotonous rolling ball of platitudes and inane interviews with other people seeking to boost their egos and inflate their public currency. There is no "realness" here anymore.

[@WeAreManEnough]

Dan, thank you for sharing your perspective. Our hosts are quite genuine and are certainly not driven by self-satisfaction. Our intention for this show is to create a safe space for open conversations. The guests and the hosts alike bring their own truths, we don't edit these for content and we believe we are presenting some of the most honest, non-judgmental conversations that have ever been had about this topic. We appreciate you offering your own honest reaction and for challenging us. We value that. We also challenge you to consider what it is about these conversations that make you react this way. Is it truly ego or is there something within you that is triggered and compels you to criticize, rather than embrace these conversations from people who communicate in the ways that feel true to them? Sending you love and gratitude for being here. Each of these conversations are different and there are some incredible ones coming up that are quite different from any that have been released to date, so we hope you'll continue to listen and give us feedback.

[@pedroguilherme722]

I agree. Also I hate that every straight male guest makes it sound like they're a victim of the system instead of actually acknowledging they're part of the problem. You can clearly tell Giacomo dodging some questions. It's all very superficial to me, it lacks theory and authors

[@WeAreManEnough]

@@pedroguilherme722 Thank you for your thoughts. We've seen a lot of guests acknowledge that they're a part of the problem, so curious to understand why you see it that way. We felt that Giacomo was quite authentic - was there a specific moment that you felt he was dodging? We're happy to be challenged, as the work is far from done.

[@elizabeththomson6568]

Ooooooooof the premise of this podcast is problematic in my opinion. Asking "how are you man enough?" is substantiating the idea that "man enough" is some koan that men are valuably searching for - yikes. There are literally 4 million different questions appealing to men's humanity that are more healing, relevant, and critical to reflect on. How about revisiting the interview with ALOK and changing the platform of this podcast to deconstruct gendered norms, not from the paradigm of gender polarity, but from the framework that gender is just a conditioned set of expectations that is problematic and needs to be challenged in its dualism. Personally I think these questions are not evoking valuable "men's work" and this podcast does more harm than good by perpetuating the gender binary paradigm and celebrating men for being in touch with their feelings and being able to apologize. Alone this wouldn't be problematic, however the gaping deficit of reflection on power and control, conditioned misogyny, and conditioned male entitlement to life at the expense of nonmen (including Earth) makes this platform an unchecked space for collusion. Yicky

[@elizabeththomson6568]

"Men's work" that doesn't center dimensions of patriarchy, the 'power and control wheel' (from the Duluth Project), 'invisible' power structures, and the work of becoming aware of the air men breath as entitled and privileged individuals with inherent power in both public and private spaces is virtue-signaling and actually dangerous. Women and nonmen like myself hear about the concept of men's work and feel relief that finally, some men are reflecting on systems that have oppressed her and them and Earth. However men's work like this does not actually operate in the way of shifting paradigm. It operates in the way of colluding with other men as they "try" to be "better men" rather than unpacking the **systems** that make their power and control possible and assumed. Until those systems and interpersonal dynamics are made visible, the earnest and culture-changing work of unpacking patriarchy and systems that entrench us in the bondage of binary gender power is not possible. Again, it's very concerning to see podcasts such as this one that claim to be shifting culture and encouraging men's work that clearly define men's work as men developing tools of emotional communication. Men are still at the center of that conversation rather than those they harm, and collusion is a natural effect.

[@WeAreManEnough]

Elizabeth, thank you for your thoughtful perspective. We're curious whether you have watched/listened to any episodes other than this one with Giacomo and ALOK (which we agree is the epitome of the types of conversations and deconstruction we need to engage in more). We love this episode, but it is certainly one of the most unchallenging of the series so far. We are consistently examining ourselves and the content we're putting out to move towards truly inclusive, productive, action-oriented work. We have a long way to go and acknowledge that regularly. We certainly don't believe we are virtue-signaling here and recognize our privilege, the limits and gaps in how well we're doing at representation to date, and the fact that the "work" is happening too slowly to truly liberate women and all humans. All that said, we are confident that our platform is additive and we are fully committed to deconstructing the patriarchy and its destructive power dynamics. We continue to invite in a variety of perspectives that are vastly different and more marginalized than our hosts (just to name a few: ALOK, Karamo, Dr. Joy DeGruy, Tony Porter, Glennon Doyle, Richie and Mannie this week, Eldra Jackson, many more ahead), and will use our privilege in every way we can to affect truly positive and transformational change. Men do need safe spaces to stumble and explore these issues, though, as that's where some of the greatest challenges and learnings arise in a way that is accessible to (at least some) men in our audience. See the Andy Grammer and Emmanuel Acho episodes as examples. If we only had female guests, most men would not listen/watch. So we have to start somewhere and invite people in, especially those that are presently opposed to these conversations or just ignorant that these issues exist. If we don't figure out how to engage them, then nothing will ever change. We have no interest in existing in either an environment that panders to oppressors or a woke echo chamber. So we'll continue to do this work and we know that we will truly affect culture change. We hope you check back in on us and continue to provide your input about how we can do better.

[@WeAreManEnough]

Also, one other clarification -- we don't ask men "how can you be man enough?" The choice to name our brand and show "Man Enough" is a direct challenge to the entire premise that anyone needs to be "man enough", which is a destructive and oppressive mental game that the patriarchy plays on men. Our whole premise is that people are enough as they are, that we need to undefine masculinity and the binary gender construct, in order to liberate women, non-binary, and men as well. We do ask every guest, "when was the last time you didn't feel that you were enough?" as that initiates this exploration that one isn't enough. We also ask them "what do you think it means to be man enough?" at the end, as we're curious about how these conversations change the perspective on how to productively and positively feel enough as a male-identifying person. That's very different than asking people "how can you be man enough?", though, which you suggested in your comment. Thanks again for taking the time to challenge us and offer your perspective. We encourage you to move beyond calling us out and rather work with us to do the work you're clearly so dedicated to, as we're stronger together.

[@elizabeththomson6568]

@@WeAreManEnough Hey there. A few notes to respond to here. First I want to say that I appreciate you (whoever is writing this) for possessing a 'growth mindset' in the way of moving with the intention of expanding and deconstructing the ways you relate to gender and patriarchy. I have a few issues with what you've written. 1. The idea that one of your episodes cannot stand alone in value seems problematic to your platform. You ask if I've seen other episodes and rattle of a list of guests you've had as if to point to where the truly valuable conversations are. It's like suggesting this was a "bad apple" in the basket of many good apples in terms of how your podcasts deconstruct patriarchy and actually engage in the heavy lifting of "men's work". I think this is dangerous because your platform has power and influence. Just read the rest of your comments below and you will note that people consume your podcasts and are deeply influenced. This may be the only episode anyone sees of your podcast, and it stands alone as part of your branding. As I spoke to before, I think that's why your podcast is actually harmful to "men's work", and to the individuals who seek "men's work" as a beacon of transformational hope. 2. A conversation like this does not challenge any of the paradigms that entrench us in patriarchy and by effect is *colluding* in nature with the systems that make it so. You are right, virtually nothing was challenged in this episode beyond the idea that men can apologize, and that men can be 'soft'. Is that what we mean when say use the term 'men's work'? Certainly not in its totality, if men's work is supposed to contribute to creating safe and vibrant cultures we dream of for ourselves and our children. That's why I use the term "virtue signaling" here. Because nothing substantial was talked about regarding this famous actor's positions of power and privilege. How about questioning Giacomo for times when he's been challenged to forfeit his entitlement as a famous male actor to align with his values regarding the treatment of nonmen/BIPOC? That's where the heart of men's work beats. 3. How we relate to those systems of oppression is the curiosity that birthed the men's work that I value. Specifically, how do men choose to fit into the folds of oppressive systems they were indoctrinated into? It is those *systems* that keep individuals like you and I stuck in patriarchy. Giacomo himself is no problem or threat here. Nor are any of the hosts here problematic in themselves. We are all in motion with deeper self-excavation and that is something to honor in each other. No individual person is an issue here. Again, conversations of value in engaging with men's work that benefits more than just men centers Systems of Power, as it is those Systems that are the issue. 4. Lastly, you mention that my comment is "calling out". *By suggesting that I'm "calling out" rather than "calling in" you're attempting to render my comment invalid because there was a "higher way" or a more diplomatic approach that could have been used and therefore threatens to negate the substance of my comment. My comment is just a vocalization of my thoughts. I shared my observations and reactions to this podcast. And that's just the heart of it, right? Calling out is not something that someone in a position of power has to do. Calling out is something that someone who's voice is systemically suppressed, silenced, invalidated does to become visible. The word itself is a relic of men's attempt to invalidate criticism that threatens their positions of power or makes them uncomfortable. When one is accused of calling out, the reframe without that word is that they are NAMING something uncomfortable for those in power. The word itself when used the way you just did is a perpetuation of the systemic invalidation of women or nonmen speaking critically to address male power. It is absolutely gross to me that you should try to correct me into being less direct and assertive with what I find problematic about your podcast by saying I should "call you in" rather than "out". I have no control over whether you feel called in or out. That's a mirror for you to hold up for yourself if you're feeling unsafe by someone commenting their perspective in the way that I did. What makes you feel called out here? Check yourself before you blame me for having the "wrong" way of communicating.*

[@WeAreManEnough]

@@elizabeththomson6568 Thank you again for your thoughtful response. We're here for it. First, we did not intend to accuse or invalidate you and sincerely apologize that that is how it came across. Every episode should stand on its own, ideally, yet at the same time we decided to create an open platform that allows people to come into this conversation at different stages of the journey. We take your comments to heart and are consistently looking at ways to challenge our guests and ourselves to go further every chance we get. We have the same mission as you and clearly there's still work to do. We're not sure if this is a passion or professional work for you, but you are clearly a person who has researched, thought and written about this before, so we'd be happy to discuss how we might collaborate if you're interested in that. We welcome you to contact us at [e-mail]. Sending love and gratitude for taking the time to further this conversation and the work that needs to be done.

[@sheilanogueira7633]

what an amazing podcast i loved every minute