I Don't Get Salty Often But.... - MindHawk's Challenge Gauntlet: Legacy of the Void - pt9

[@GiantGrantGamesArchives]

Sorry about the mood today. This just isn't my type of mission.

[@Seagull512]

no worries, you can't always enjoy everything

[@aaronscott7467]

Don't worry Grant, we're here and watching because we want to be here and watching. Thank you for the upload, and condolences for the pain and suffering you had to go through for this one. Also, just use grid GG ez. That'll definitely fix the people being in the wrong order.

[@casualsilver2702]

Here's the thing. Because the Kerrigan used is the HotS Kerrigan of course she'd be first in any group selection. That's how that expansion goes and I, for one, welcome Mindhawk's faithfulness to the source material. Also, I too hate Micro Missions.

[@migiul15]

You held it together much better than I would've

[@Bladecharge]

it okay grant. as a reminder you can re set the hot keys unless thst not a thing in no build missions

[@MindHawkHotS]

Displacing every UI element, blocking the minimap, limiting the game screen: 😄 Swapping two units in selection priority: 🤬 This will be fixed in release! HotS kerrigan actually just has a different selection priority and my playtesters didn't mind so it went unnoticed.

[@Cylindryk]

Honestly this mission.. didn't feel good to watch. :(

[@Leopoldshark]

Well, this is the man who did this mission blindfolded

[@runtergerutscht4401]

This mission looks like pain after 9 minutes already, but yea I can see why messing with selection priority would trip up the guy who has this campaign in his muscle memory.

[@srtfrostbite]

Uncanny valey effect I think. Small changes do more to mess you up than large sweeping changes.

[@XayadSC]

@@runtergerutscht4401 it wasn't an intentional change to mess with Grant. HOTS Kerrigan just has a different priority and none of the playtester were bothered by it because we didn't micro in the same way as Grant, so that wasn't caught

[@thewarriorcat3271]

Oh my god, Artanis' rank being "Naked (SC1)" Hilarious

[@manolgeorgiev9664]

I've always wondered why he was naked in SC1 xD

[@AtticusKarpenter]

​@@manolgeorgiev9664i think its just some weird implied Protoss stuff about receiving more armor (and clothes) with age and respected deeds, and Artanis is constantly referred as young. It seemingly abandoned in SC 2 and nakedness of Brood War Artanis remained strange plot artifact

[@runtergerutscht4401]

​@@AtticusKarpenterit would check out with Artanis' new rank as hierarch. Can't have the leader of your race be running around in noob clothes, or being referred to as 'young' artanis.

[@tunch90]

Artanis: [Removes his armor] Pillar Men Theme: …

[@runtergerutscht4401]

Awaken, my Xel'Naga!

[@rgal]

"WHAT IS GOING ON? AM I ON DRUGS?" - the Blade-queen of Bladekind

[@ducanhbui8471]

@@rgal Man, I miss the TTS series

[@SuspishFish]

26:16 Stalker: "The Dark God has foreseen your death, Kerrigan. We shall deliver you to it." Kerrigan: "Say again?"

[@misterwolf3817]

Vanilla Starcraft 2: Queen of Blades Kerrigan and Hierarch Artanis Mindhawk's SC2: Some girl named Sarah and an alien half-naked guy who found clothes

[@danpitzer765]

Revelation - Mindhawk is the Hotkey Gremlin!

[@runtergerutscht4401]

Grant's whole life is one big challenge gauntlet

[@kojii.5473]

👀

[@Rightclicksfriendlies]

It's really inspiring to see how you handled your salt, even during all the weirdness the mission throws at you you manage to give fun and insightful commentary while only blaming yourself for failing to adapt. Like, it's cool to see you stressed in SC2, usually you make it seem so easy until one plays the mods themselfes or watches Winter or PiG struggle for hours on the HOTS nightmare missions. I'll try to remember this next time i get salty

[@Ricardo_Rick]

I must say: seeing Grant descend into madness and saltiness makes me realize i'm not the only one that becomes like that while playing a mission like that, it's actually quite soothing, but i do usually curse way more tho XD

[@MFirone]

This is niche, but a psychological tip for something like the priority swap is to go over rather than under - hit tab twice rather than not hit it at all. Your brain is used to the physical input of “press tab = select unit”, and it’s easier to train your brain to double tap than to remove the input altogether. Useful when you only need to do this temporarily

[@Antykill_]

I kinda expected this would be SC1 Kerrigan (melee + razorswarm) and SC1 Artanis (zealot w/ heal and no self-res since the resurgence is an ability from his armor). See how far a couple of SC1 heroes would make it.

[@Dolcsiman]

Ah, the adventures of Nudetanis and Sarah Meltsagain... truly a wonderous sight. Jokes aside, i clicked for salt, all i felt was sadness. This was way too unfair imo.

[@justanoman6497]

A significant portion of some of the fight is against a lot of melee enemies. I wonder if it would be easier if you stand side by side against a wall or a corner. Then, if there are only a few ranged attackers, snipe those with abilities. It seems Artanis's heal can actually keep up as long as it's only being attacked by a few things.

[@gabrielpineirogarcia2078]

Thats honestly sounds like a good idea. Kerrigan would still have to snipe the ranged ones

[@khankhomrad8855]

True. It is weird seeing Grant letting his units get surrounded like that when corning would help a lot with staying alive.

[@thomasfleming8131]

​@@khankhomrad8855Sadly, I think he was too thrown off by the order thing to really put much thought into tactics.

[@randomguy6822]

I think part of it was about trying to group up the enemies as much as possible for maximum Crushing Grip value, especially in timed segments (including ones where more enemies spawn on a timer) - maximising DPS was more important than minimising damage. Also: it's easier to escape and start kiting (if necessary) when you're surrounded and just have to kill one guy to break the surround, as opposed to being stuck in a corner with 3 lines of enemies in front of you. Also also: if you're in a corner, you might not be in position to snipe incoming transports. It seems that the best approach varies between groups of enemies (i.e. based on their exact DPS, durability and timing of next wave), but it would take too many tries to figure out the optimal approach for each group, so he just stuck with what seemed to work best most of the time. And the "potential kiting" method benefits more from good micro than standing in a corner.

[@Kaggiekins]

Brother, you handled that stress about a hundred times better than I would have. Hope you feel better for next vid, and please, don't be hard on yourself.

[@cranapple3367]

12:50 well yeah kerrigan is a ghost, she can go through stuff.

[@darkvahnor5180]

Is okay, if I'm being honest it's very far from as bad as you think, you didn't enjoy it, but you can't enjoy everything, and it actually was a fine video, and very understandbale of the trouble, and you were very far from as salty as I thought it could end, you did so fuckin well at the end, gg

[@Cosmic0508_SC]

Also Artanis looks like a Scorpion and I can’t unsee it now

[@MrNicoJac]

Kinda looked like Dehakha

[@SillyPC]

I could have sworn he had a tail whenever I looked at him.

[@stylesrj]

Imagine if at the end it's like "OK now you need to evacuate from the temple... because you're doing the prologue now!"

[@Trehlas]

with a title like that, you know it's gonna be a good one.

[@Cosmic0508_SC]

This is just bullying Mindhawk, what the hell? I would probably pout, cry, and piss all at the same time if I had to do this (and I got a good chunk of the way through nightmare!)

[@4564568b]

17:30 Thor Dash is indeed a good joke. 8/10

[@inductivegrunt94]

Artanis' rank being Naked (SC1) with a Scout on his back is beautiful

[@ChannelMiner]

Thank goodness it wasn't literally Back in the Saddle Kerrigan or this would be impossible lol

[@runtergerutscht4401]

Back in the saddle and right back out of the saddle indeed

[@AfroChef]

Its been a while but these types of things are part of what makes GiantGrantGames unique for me. When challenge runs randomly stump you for just a mechanical change your muscle memory has ingrained from world record runs.

[@ethermelt4780]

It really says something profound about game design when being experienced is a detriment.

[@TheFolros]

You say it's not Mindhawk's fault, but I still blame him for the C&C commando missions.

[@waytooaverage]

Took an embarrassing amount of time to get the Thor-Dash joke (we don't have it over here) but when I did.. It was funny! I agree, Grant xD

[@runtergerutscht4401]

Grant is lucky I am terminally online enough to get that lol

[@samuelhawkins3820]

I too hope to enjoy this newest masterpiece of yours, grant

[@mystfawn8774]

Absolutely true about the old Red Alert no build "facility" missions... you have to save every 10 seconds cause a single dog you dont see in time ends the mission instantly (for example)

[@LadyGameshine]

I love how Grant is telling us to not watch this, but I genuinely quite enjoyed this video! It was neat to watch Grant manages to make this all work!

[@onemanjack6912]

A rare appearance of BM grant! I'm proud of you for sticking through and getting it done. Watched the whole thing through to cheer you on!

[@Rumunsko8]

I think this video was good. Yea it was apparent that you are not having a great time, but it was cool to see you improve over time and overcome all the challenges.

[@dshadows2966]

Well at least it's not Kerri'gain a million abilities' and 'Bard'tanis.

[@andrewgreeb916]

I just recently played through c&c red alert allied campaign on hard, the no build sections are heck, anyone remember how allied mission one can just fail you because a cruiser friendly fired Einstein, or that you can lose allied mission ten at the 3 second mark if you do nothing. That is a special kind of jank modern rts games should not have, right Stormgate? Like you guys worked on starcraft 2 you should be at least on red alert 2 levels of rts mission design right?

[@stylesrj]

Well to be fair in that mission doesn't it tell you to run? It's like the whole "DIVE! DIVE! HIT YOUR BURNERS PILOT!" thing... Also, I've never had those cruisers take out Einstein... I guess I was quick to get him out of the base before the shelling started? Because I never failed that mission or even think that it could happen so easily until now... and now I'm like "Huh, you are right but that doesn't seem likely unless you are wanting it to happen..."

[@qsfff5099]

I think tiberium sun has worst no build missions of all c&c, as there are no commandos, you dont know where to go, and for each faction only part of units can be healed. And then GDI's kill train mission is worst of them because you are on very strict timer there

[@stylesrj]

@@qsfff5099 No commandoes? Umagon, Ghostalker and the Hijacker beg to differ. And so does the Cyborg Commando... Also, the train mission isn't on a strict timer. If you don't get the train at the bridge, you have to go get it from the NOD base and you're given a base to deal with it. If anything, it's NOD that gets the worst missions... I hate that one where you gotta capture the ship then get the crystal back from Vega. That one might as well be on a strict timer unless you know how to cheese the level. GDI's no-build missions are very tactical. I don't like them but I do like the approach. You have Umagon for infantry, Ghostalker for vehicles and buildings, the Hijacker to steal a transport or something and they all heal in Tiberium so if things get too dicey, you run them over the fields of green. OK so there are missions like destroying a radar base or dam or capturing a train station but those are optional. I think the only two that are not are the one where you rescue Tratos and when you investigate the Banshee production site? And both of those missions involve the commando team...

[@riluna3695]

Sorry you had trouble with this one, but for what it's worth, it wasn't bad content at all. Apart from that one first shrine area, it was mostly you saying you felt bad without it really being obvious that you were. This was definitely not the LotV equivalent of that Zeratul screaming mission - THAT one was bad, and not in any way your fault, either. In this one I saw a lot of skill and a lot of "there are problems but this part of the mission ruled", and that ruled :D

[@The_DGO]

your performance here was really good and fun to watch. Other than the one section in the first part, you were making progress with almost every restart.

[@Slimurgical]

Grant, you were stuck at the end of the mission for over 12 minutes. You don't need to apologize for your mood, anger is part of the process.

[@Fanatator]

Personal hello to the guy who made nightmare no build missions part of archipelago randomizer (where you can't quick save/load)

[@SeriousApache]

The challenge should be "Artanis just fucking murdered Kerrigan in cutscene"

[@slypperypete4636]

Thank you for your devotion to content sir [salutes]

[@mroberts7117]

Purity of Form. Purity of Essence. Prove your strength in MORTAL KOMBAT!

[@Lunaraia]

This is more "Fight the UI" than the last mission XD.

[@huynhphucm445]

Took me a while to notice, the scout is sticking on Artanis' back all the time, that's why it just pops and goes

[@plackt]

16:55 "There was strategy"... in Real-Time, too!

[@CascaDEER]

I think I feel the frustration. Man I for sure would get really salty about something similiar too

[@MrArnvald]

Honestly? This looked like a fun mission. The only two thing I whould like to be changed is the one hard fight that tilted You and the unit priority. Maybe also add push prioryty to Artanis. GGG You said You were tiilted, but You took it like a champ. MindHawk, thank You for adding a new look and difficulty to the mission.

[@yessir6919]

Imagine Salvation being something like: Whenever the Spear of Adun loses an ability, in addition to auto saving, there is a % chance that it crashes onto the map, which then crashes the game to desktop, going from 0%, to 25%, then 50%, and finally 75%. I mean, it's highly unlikely Mindhawk is able to do that, but still, _imagine._ I didn't even think it was possible to screw with the UI to make it bounce all over the place and he somehow did it, the absolute madman.

[@stylesrj]

That sounds more annoying than challenging though...

[@yessir6919]

@@stylesrj Yeah, it would suck

[@devilpistons1269]

You may have thought this video sucked to watch, but every morsel was worth it for the hybrid breakfast joke.

[@EliasMheart]

Can you imagine a world where kerrigan still has the approach of trying to destroy everything, but it is a different challenge? "Purity of..." "You failed. Fighting in an ancient temple is not very respectful."

[@optimusprime9931]

Don't worry Ginormous Gregor Gains I watched this and the blindfolded video

[@DanDanStonk]

I would love to see a custom campaign tier list, recently wanting to jump into these missions and wonder which ones are the best thanks :)

[@jell0goeswiggle]

Honestly this video was a lot better than the title made it out to be.

[@fielddranzer]

You know, I really think this mission needs the backup Grant for moral support!

[@phoenixsspark6150]

i still liked the video, thanks for the upload

[@debo2792]

7:50 My boi didn't deserve that

[@ggjoska]

Mindhawk sure knows how to mess with Grant 😏

[@comradecrusader6712]

MindHawk's Challenge Gauntlet: Bread in French episode

[@calebz4265]

The salt was strong with this mission

[@NuclearFury8]

I agree on the single player RPG comment, a lot of RTS is controlling large amounts of units, macroing, choosing your composition. These missions rarely give you much to do beyond kiting a lot and choosing when to engage two fighting enemy forces, which is nice but I don't think holds a whole mission like this up on its own.

[@clmdcc]

Of course karrigan can walk through enemies, she is an old ghost after all.

[@GafferPerkele]

When muscle memory screws you over...

[@griffin8690]

This is actully how it feels when you start at a low level campaigh in DnD

[@2casual862]

"Thor dash" add that to the memes

[@tasuelxd687]

R.I.P. spine crawler family 🙏🙏😔😛

[@трофимцветков]

Thor dash. Funny Meanwhile Tykus in Heroes of the storm has 3 dashes on Odin

[@AtticusKarpenter]

Only at 20 lvl but yeah, thats some insanely mobile Odin Then again, Odin in editor files (that marked as Nova's unit) have wild stampede charge over the half of the screen damaging people on its path

[@LibertyMonk]

it took me like 10 seconds after the 3rd repetition of "thoor Dash" to get the joke.

[@mossblomma]

Good job Grant, I don't think you were that salty so it wasn't that bad.

[@christopherdecock703]

Don't be this hard on yourself Grant. Video was fine. You don't need to apologize to us.

[@ilikedragons7928]

today after 7 years I played SC2 again. lost on welcome to the jungle mission on brutal. i am sad

[@Ghooostie]

about the command and conquer comment, the entire first game on hard is just terrible, because the game was not designed with that option. Does make a good point though, any bit of tweaking really cascades in no build missions.

[@hrdwan2000]

What do you mean, Grant? We had a lot of fun seeing you not be on top of your game

[@Cobra100]

Won't it save your unit priority if you redo your control group? I thought SC2 remembered what unit you cad the command card up for at the time you set the group.

[@theabarguy]

At this point I have no idea why those mods are made. I haven't played SC2 for years, and if even Grant struggles with them, then there is no way I'll be able to play it, even if I decided to install SC again. So, it's just complicated for the sake of making Grant suffer on stream, nothing more.

[@Storm2war]

I would get salty here as well so it’s all good GGG

[@Ten_Tacles]

Man, I hate that TibSun nod mission where you have to find the fallen scrin ship. There are so many fights you just lose so much if you play on hard. No build missions can be cool, but are easily made awful.

[@Shtoops]

I choose to believe that the command cards were swapped in order specifically to mess with Grant, and mindhawk saying otherwise in the comments here won't convince me otherwise.

[@skullzans]

Did nobody notice every enemy moved and attacked faster and had sped up animations??

[@Nekoyashiki-san]

Thanks for the video. ^^

[@domacleod]

13:10 Well, artanis is not a ghost

[@breathofire1449]

A mission that only masochist could like... this is nothing but misery and pain - and that's just me watching it.

[@bencowden8351]

Now it is time for the hamburger

[@TheHappy115]

Ah yes, the hero mission. Hero missions so painful when they are really hard just because its pure perfect micro. You can't change your strategy / comp if it isn't working and that just really really annoys me. Would be different if you could "upgrade" but that isn't a thing in RTS hero missions sadly.

[@petrowegynyolc7108]

I hinted the idea of a level drain for legacy of the meme, but after that, no... Just don't.

[@LixLorn]

dont worry grant, this was still fun to watch, although Im sorry you didnt have fun. No-build missions have always been my least favorite too, and considering I grew up on command and conquer, that might be why...

[@JessWLStuart]

Well done GGG!

[@tabula_rosa]

now i really want to see if Grant can beat my Raynor Only version of Back in the Saddle on brutal..

[@NightNord]

Grant in W3 retrospective: it's so great because its not just an RTS its an RPG! Grant now: if I would want to play an RPG I would go and play an RPG Yes, and that's why W3 heroes is the worst thing that happened with the RTS genre

[@andrewwaldschmitt4757]

I disagree. Heroes of annihilated empires did a good job with it. Better than war craft 3 did. That said, HoAE forced you to choose between staying a hero or petrifying your hero to spawn some workers to get a base operational. In team games, this could be huge. Heroes were squishy but devastatingly powerful units able to clear armies out easily, but still killable by massed elites or even basic troops. I have fond memories of going Elven Mage rpg with Mechanicians RTS against masses of Undead and Cryo-race in 2 vs 3 or 4 matches. All that said, war3 Heroes are fine, scaling is the issue. Some Heroes excelled against different situations than others.

[@NightNord]

@@andrewwaldschmitt4757 heroes in rts as a concept aren't something w3 did. What w3 did was to focus so hard on them so the hero is the backbone of your army, main thing in the campaign and literally have entire missions dedicated to it. Most RTS around that time had heroes but those were just a component of your army, a strategic choice. In w3 (campaign) your get the hero at the start of every mission, it retains the power and items and generally missions are balanced around that character progression, while the rest of the army resets. Hero is no longer a component - the army is. They put too much focus on heroes, hero management, hero abilities and started the trend of most modern RTS mutating into micromanagement hell, progressively losing strategic options and scale in favour or more micro-skill and thus losing popularity and audience. Modern RTS target the same skillset as action rpgs but have worse controls, so most people, like Grant says in this video, would rather just play an action rpg instead.

[@andrewwaldschmitt4757]

@NightNord Honestly? That is fair. I have often felt that a lot of games had too many buttons I needed to press to optimize my army. A well programmed autocast is huge. Having ghosts snipe, and BCs Yamato heavies. Would change the game, and kind of explains why I have been leaning away from rts that is not small scale.

[@Athanasia8818]

I mean I disagree with the title but eh, I always appreciate the videos.

[@AvelineMelena]

Yes you do ah ah

[@spencerftn1]

I am one with salty Grant

[@CH-gt3wi]

Sucks that I can tell Mindhawk put in alot of effort into this mod. But it's clearly far above my skill level so I won't even try it. I'll watch your videos of it but I won't be playing it.

[@Flamewarden_Honoushugoshin]

Yeah...the only no-build stuff I ever really liked mechanically was Founding of Durotar, and that's because it's an actual RPG with quests, level ups and item rewards, so even if you aren't building units you can improved your characters by finding other things to do... Minimal resource puzzles in RTS (which is basically what no-build missions are) can be interesting, but I'm not sure that they should last more than a few minutes once you have the solution. It just becomes a slog of "did you input on the right deci-second in the right pixel cluster for 10 minutes straight?", which, while a technically impressive challenge, isn't very expressive for the player. If you look at other puzzle games they usually try to limit their puzzles to 1 room or a handful of interactions at a time, so the player can properly appreciate the next one. Anyway, more RTS no-build should be structured like Enemy Within in my opinion, to give some kind of progression to your limited characters. It's a great opportunity to force people to think tall instead of wide while still allowing variations in play-style. Bring back hero levels for no-build missions!

[@hilkmeister1382]

Should have made artanis a scout instead...

[@lordofhyphens]

It probably would have broken the scripting and mission progression

[@hilkmeister1382]

@@lordofhyphens Replace the model with a scout.

[@vulkandrache1928]

Why are you fighting 15 zealots in the middle of the room instead of a corner?

[@Cactoos]

Dude why are you apologizing, your content is great

[@MrJoejoejoebob]

Watching Grant devoutly refuse to make a control group for Kerrigan slowly drove me insane this video, highly recommend!

[@ladosolado]

This looks unbalanced seeing how the heroes keep getting body blocked

[@torylva]

I'm honestly sorry, but these arent really fun to watch and it doesnt seem like you enjoy playing them much either...

[@georgegorvaniagerge7077]

i honestly think that its made so annoying and hard that its hard to have fun just like always its fun when the levels arent easy but they cant be fun if they are too hard either

[@khankhomrad8855]

@@georgegorvaniagerge7077 My thought exactly. Half these missions are just... not great to watch? The last one was amusing because it was goofy, but some of these are just Grant failing until he finds the trick to the mission. Seeing that happen once or twice in a row can be entertaining, but an entire campaign like this? I don't know how long it can last.

[@darkk41]

next twitch trolls grant there should be a donate option which randomizes all the hotkeys

[@ignap]

🫂