Giants (Nephilim) of the Old Testament

[@laiquende9971]

Interesting that you seem to take the view popular with many in the Reformed tradition. With reference to the fathers, I was just reading Irenaeus’ Apostolic Preaching where he says, “since angels were united with the daughters of the race of mankind; and they bore to them sons who for their exceeding greatness were called giants.”

[@carissstewart3211]

Many polytheistic religions had stories involving divine beings mating with humans, producing superhuman offspring. Think Gilgamesh, Heracles, and even Pharaoh. Regardless of who (or what) the Nephilim really were, within the context of Bronze Age Mesopotamia, Genesis 6 would have been a powerful refutation of those myths.

[@BanterWithBojan]

Would it tho? It seems to affirm them, in a way. :-)

[@dylanchouinard6141]

Bible Illustrated Hands it is good to remember that, while Israelite monotheism was revolutionary, it still came out of the culture of the ancient Middle/Near East. To paraphrase Alan Watts, new religions will often adopt some of the cosmology and ideas about the divine from the spiritual culture they came out of. Buddhism did it with Hinduism, most forms of Christianity from a mix of Judaism and Greco-Roman philosophy, and Judaism did it with Mesopotamian polytheism.

[@carissstewart3211]

@@BanterWithBojan it would. Consider how many families claimed descent from a divine being. Even Caesar Augustus claimed descent from Venus. This belief was so widespread and so common (in our own day, some people claim to have mated with aliens), simply asserting that such stories aren't true would have been dismissed as nonsense. What Genesis 6 does is assert that: a) the coupling of divine beings with humans was evil, and b) all those lineages were wiped out by the Flood. Pharaoh was fully human. Sargon was fully human. Caesar was fully human. We are all equally human. God addresses us according to our capacity to understand. Furthermore, we Christians do believe that one woman was chosen to be the Mother of God. Not by sexual union, of course.

[@catholicactionbibleonlyist1813]

When people talk about the Nephilim,it's something out of The Da Vinci Code ie blurring the line Realty and Fantasy

[@BanterWithBojan]

Well, sort of, yeah.

[@bonniejohnstone]

I’m guessing that some of the rumor and speculation about the mixing of humans with fallen angels before the flood (producing giants) stems from the Book of Enoch. I have the Book of Enoch with notes by Dan Olson (rare Book) and it makes Revelation look easy! We don’t dissect every little notion because we just don’t know.

[@BanterWithBojan]

I like the idea that 'the sons of God' were people conceived during temple ceremonies.

[@Arkangilos]

So when Scriptures that they are the offspring of angels and men, how is that taken?

[@BanterWithBojan]

Where does it say that they're offspring of angels specifically?

[@Arkangilos]

When it talks about how the “Sons of God” had sex with the “Daughters of Man”, some of the early church fathers took Sons of God to be the fallen angels.

[@StianLewis13]

@@BanterWithBojan And the bible EXPLICITLY TELL YOU SO THAT ANGELS GAVE BIRTH TO GIANTS IN GENESIS 6.6

[@HomoEucharistica]

​@@Arkangilos Well, Adam is also called "a son of God", and so were likely his son Seth and grandson Enos. And later, God calls Israel as a nation "His firstborn son", and the davidic kings were called "sons of God" as well. (They all were naturally antitypes of coming Messiah.) Though the title "sons of God" refers to angels as well, it's not implicitly stated in the Torah.

[@Arkangilos]

@@HomoEucharistica oh, so I no longer hold what I commented and said, lmao. That was a “long” time ago 😂

[@barrycampion9679]

I've studied biblical prophecy for 15 years,from an atheist eyes,I'm now a born again Christian,the Bible is correct 100%,to my anger at the time.anything to deny god and Jesus Christ,that's their plan

[@Ciprian-IonutPanait]

well first off the post flood giant had at most 3.5 meters so they were not unrealistic. I would doubt the antediluvian giants were much bigger if so. That being said the giants were famous mostly for canibalism i.e. killing and eating other human beings. They also were involved in all sorts of magic .

[@gnote6850]

do moeemeesearchman, to fragmented and catholic

[@BanterWithBojan]

Er, sorry?

[@ivSRB]

There were Church fathers who firmly held a view that "Sons of God" from Genesis 6 were really non human beings. E.g. Saint Ireneus wrote following passage in his work "The Proof of the Apostolic Preaching" 18. And for a very long while wickedness extended and spread, and reached and laid hold upon the whole race of mankind, until a very small seed of righteousness remained among them: and illicit unions took place upon the earth, since angels were united with the daughters of the race of mankind; and they bore to them sons who for their exceeding greatness were called giants. And the angels brought as presents to their wives teachings of wickedness,52 in that they brought |86 them the virtues of roots and herbs, dyeing in colours and cosmetics, the discovery of rare substances, love-potions, aversions, amours, concupiscence, constraints of love, spells of bewitchment, and all sorcery and idolatry hateful to God; by the entry of which things into the world evil extended and spread, while righteousness was diminished and enfeebled. And st Ireneus was not alone in this stance. There are more Church fathers from the early Church period who were also embracing this explanation. The Sethite view came much later , with st Augustine of Hippo (maybe with st John Cassian, also).

[@dylanchouinard6141]

So the Orthodox view of demons, as being prideful about their supposed superiority to humans to the point of bigotry, is actually very similar to the Islamic view of demons. I guess all of us being people of the book makes us have more in common than we think. 😊

[@carissstewart3211]

Islam was heavily influenced by Judaism and Christianity. Jewish apocryphal literature (see The Life of Adam & Eve) held that Satan fell, and thus persecutes Adam, because he refused to fall down and worship Adam, the image of God.

[@dylanchouinard6141]

Cariss Stewart I am aware of that fact. Though I did listen to an Islamic sermon here on KZbin (because I’m a world religions nerd) that explicitly stated “When the angels bowed to Adam, it was not a bow of prayer, but of respect.”

[@carissstewart3211]

@@dylanchouinard6141 yes. Adam was meant to be some sort of Qiblah analogous to the Kaaba in Mecca. 🕋 (I've wanted to use that emoji for ages.)

[@BanterWithBojan]

Demons don't see us with bigorty, but with absolute, undiluted hatred. :-D

[@dylanchouinard6141]

Bible Illustrated Hands that sounds like bigotry to me?

[@brandontaylor3249]

Read the works of Michael Heiser he is a Bible scholar who can talk at length about this in Unseen Realm and Reversing Hermon. I can buy it for you

[@brandontaylor3249]

The Sons of God in the OT are ALWAYS angelic. It's why saints are a big deal The Bible has a near eastern context lost to most Orthodox and Catholic Gentiles. They came after the second temple collapsed. The holy spirit lead them buy wasn't going to download Ancient Near Eastern concepts fully in their heads.

[@BanterWithBojan]

True re OT, but then again, Gospel of Luke calls Adam 'son of God.' :-) My main issue with those 'sons of God' being angels is angelic inability to reproduce - especially with humans.

[@brandontaylor3249]

@@BanterWithBojan Adam being called the Son of God is called so because of the revelation of Jesus. I implore you to look at Psalm 82. The issue is explained in 1 Enoch that they left their original estate. And while it isn't cannon, the New Testament quotes it in several places like Jude and 1 Peter. Think about it. Peter speaks of Angels from the time of the flood who are in chains of gloomy darkness. You need a hebrew Bible to know that the scapegoat not sacrificed is offered to Azazel, who was the leader of the watchers. May I buy you that book? Again, alot is just lost because by the time God moved on we gentiles, we were way past the Bronze Age concepts that the Old Testament was written in.

[@nickolaospappas4485]

Wait did you just said descent from Seth? Isnt Seth the third son of eve from whom eventually comes Abraham?

[@BanterWithBojan]

Yes

[@nickolaospappas4485]

@@BanterWithBojan They cannot be from Seth

[@BanterWithBojan]

Why not? :-)

[@nickolaospappas4485]

@@BanterWithBojan I mean the line of Seth is a good line. From it came Abraham . They cannot be

[@BibleIllustrated]

@@nickolaospappas4485 What does having a good line even mean? Christ's line has a bunch of really great sinners in it.

[@MauritianStruggle]

Tertullian certainly thought they were the sons of angels and I think St Augustine did.

[@BanterWithBojan]

Interesting! Thank you for letting me know :-)

[@isaacOfNiniveh]

That's illogical given that angels (which includes demons) are incorporeal beings. More accurately, Scholastics defined them as "immaterial substances of rational essences". I think that a more plausible conjecture is that demons managed to get some humans on their side and these humans procreated and had offspring. However, given the demons' superior intellects, they somehow corrupted this offspring (their DNA) with the permission of the corrupt humans, to suit their evil goals. Hence the giants. In other words, demons used evil humans as "vessels" for their evil "creations", them being the modified offspring, the giants, the Nephilim or what have you. God bless and keep you always.

[@MauritianStruggle]

@@isaacOfNiniveh 1 Enoch covers this by saying that the angels intentionally decided to violate their own nature - in a similar way to intentionally sinning.

[@isaacOfNiniveh]

@Mauritian Struggle I don't see how this would explain how angels - immaterial beings - could possibly impregnate human women. From a philosophical standpoint, an angel cannot "violate" his nature to impregnate a woman anymore than I can "violate" my nature to suddenly be 100 meters tall. It just can't be done. God bless.

[@MauritianStruggle]

@@isaacOfNiniveh I dunno mate 1 Enoch isn't canon and I don't believe they are the children of angels having their way with women

[@lornadoone8887]

You and your viewers might be interested in the scholarly biblical explanations of Protestant Biblical languages scholar, Dr. Michael Heiser. He has a whole series of KZbin videos devoted to topics of this nature-example here: kzbin.info/www/bejne/jZ6tYWepoLmgpMU

[@BanterWithBojan]

Thank you so much for sharing! :-)

[@elenae6029]

"Certainly if God did not hold back from punishing the ANGELS that sinned but by throwing them into TARTARUS, (the ancient greek god of the body of the pit in the earth, his children were Cerberus, the Lernean Hydra, and Chimera)........delivered them to pits of dense darkness to be RESERVED for JUDGEMENT, and HE did not hold back from punishing an ancient world, but kept NOAH a preacher of righteousness, safe seven others when HE brought a Deluge upon a world of ungodly people." Who were these angels that sinned? These were angels who cohabited " with the daughters of men," this was between 2470 bce and 2370 bce. During this century or 100 years exactly, there were born to these fallen DISOBEDIENT ANGELS, who became DEMONS, Nephilims, (nephele cloud). These fallen angels were once part of those who made up light-years ago, Job 38:7 to these, after they sinned against the HOLY SPIRIT, there were born mighty ones who were of old men of FAME. What did these men of FAME do for 100 years on earth? After conscientious application of personal study, and, I might add persecution, revealed to me, the possibility, that during this century the NEPHILIMS were very very busy following the lead of SATAN their brother, who has on many occasions been "Roving about in the earth and WALKING about in it" Job 2:2, this took place before Adam's creation, and also took place when LEVIATHAN inspected the foundations of the EARTH, that was CREATED in PERFECTION by The SOVEREIGN LORD JEHOVAH of Armies Genesis Chapter One, he did this TO PREPARE the EARTH for a GLOBAL DELUGE. Leviathan did this between Job 38:7 and Ezekiel 28:13- 15 when he ascertained his objective to usurp JEHOVAH'S rightful Sovereignty. In the interim of the antediluvian period what were these men of fame engrossed in? They were busy making sure as many as possible would turn away from worshiping JEHOVAH GOD, permanently, and this is the most cautious way of ascertaining the vision that Satan had, the production of hallucinogenics, to root profound anarchy, enmity, uncanny power, and a lifetime of SPIRITISTIC PRACTICES or PHARMAKIA or (pharmacy) along of course, with IMMORALITY, by making the SYSTEMS of things a secret part of it, a study of their bones will show all kinds of hallucinogens. They also mutated animal life and plant life. Now, as for Tartarus, mentioned by the Loving Apostle Peter, and the "rock mass" where the Lord would build his congregation so that the gates of HADES would not overpower it, Matthew 16:17......this Tartarus is in reality in the Heavenly places, in prison bonds, still exercising their authority on human souls, particularly through excessive abuse of authority, use, and abuse of PORNOGRAPHY, drug abuse, every kind of prostitution, these deep things of Satan, are governed by these spirits in Tartarus. What will happen with regard to Leviathan? Isaiah Chapter 27:1 'In that day JEHOVAH with HIS HARD and GREAT and STRONG SWORD will turn HIS attention to LEVIATHAN, the gliding SERPENT even to LEVIATHAN the crooked SERPENT and HE will certainly kill the SEA MONSTER that is in the SEA." Read my other comments on these subjects, and if interested in a Bible study, contact JW.ORG. " Space Sounds:12 Hours of our Sun's solar om noise. " "Who are the Nephilim in Genesis 6." by Bible answer man " Sounds of the Sun " "What is a desert" "What is FORENSIC PSYCHIATRY" "Paradise Lost by John Milton Book 12 Summary and Analysis" "Adam & Eva 1983 (mostly silent) beautiful movie " "The Acts of the Apostles Holy bible [Full Film" "Making a Blacksmith shop with no power tools" "THE DIABETIC BRAIN" "The Ketogenic Diet Plan for Beginners" "Solo Bushcraft trip - northern wilderness - canoeing, net fishing, chaga lavvu, etc, [ long version] "Japanese Murder Crime Shock Asia Full Episode "

[@elenae9983]

"Certainly, if God did not hold back from punishing the angels that sinned but by throwing them into TARTARUS, ( the ancient god of the body of the pit in the earth, his children were Cerberus, Lernean Hydra and Chimera ) .... delivered them to PITs of dense ( spiritual ) darkness to be reserved for judgment and He did not hold back from punishing an ancient world, but kept Noah a preacher of righteousness safe with seven others when he brought a deluge upon a world of ungodly people." 2nd Peter 2:4,5 Who, were these angels that sinned "with the daughters of men?" Fallen angels! these fallen angels cohabited with the daughters of men during 2470 bce and 2370 bce, during this entire century they produced and created Nephilims, or ( Nephele clouds ) ( and Nubes in Latin ). These fallen angels were once part of those who made up, light-years ago, Job 38:7, some of these sinned against the Holy Spirit, being born "" mighty ones who were of old men of fame "" Genesis Chapter 6. What did these men of fame do for 100 years on earth? "The spirit, that searches into all things, even the deep things of God" ........... (Ephesians 2:7), reveals that these Nephilims have been.......... very, very busy following the lead of Satan their brother, who has on many occasions been " roving about in the earth and walking about in it " ....Job 2:2, incidentally, this took place before Adam's creation, and also took place when Leviathan inspected the foundations of the earth, preparing the earth, for a global deluge. Leviathan did this between Job 38:7 and Ezekiel 28: 13-15 when he ascertained his objective to usurp Jehovah's sovereignty. The Nephilims were busy making sure to turn away as many people as possible from Jehovah permanently, How? by CREATING for mankind HALLUCINOGENS and root profound evil in mankind along with immorality by making the systems of things a secret part of it. 1 Corinthians 10:11, a study of their bones might prove this true. What will happen to Leviathan? " In that day Jehovah with his hard and great and strong sword will turn his attention to Leviathan the gliding serpent even to LEVIATHAN the crooked serpent, and HE will certainly kill the sea monster that is in the sea." Isaiah 27:1 Also, see .............JONAH Bible Movie

[@StianLewis13]

GENESIS 6:6 TELLS YOU EXACTLY THAT ANGELS MATED WITH WOMAN AND CREATED OFFSPRING!

[@DeAngeloJohnson-ee9bt]

I dont believe the nephilim were giants

[@J0HN5AW]

"Then lifted I up mine eyes, and looked, and, behold, there came out two women, and the wind was in their wings; for they had wings like the wings of a stork: and they lifted up the ephah between the earth and the heaven." Zechariah 5: 9 KJV. Jesus said that, just as angels aren't married in Heaven, none of the 7 men who had been the husband of the woman whom they asked Jesus about would be married to her in Heaven. Jesus did not say there are no female angels (or devils). Jesus did not say angels (or devils) are not capable of having sex and procreating with other angels (or devils). Jesus did not say angels (or devils) are not capable of having sex and procreating with humans.

[@carltonpoindexter2034]

The seven husbands that the Pharisees mentioned to Jesus was a direct reference to the Dueterocanonical book of Tobias, the possessed woman Sara who married 7 successive husband's, each killed on her wedding night by the demon Asmodeus.

[@J0HN5AW]

@@carltonpoindexter2034 yes, excellent. It is in Tobit 3: 8 in the original KJV. The first KJV to be printed without the so-called "Apocrypha" was done so in 1666 by Puritans. The Protestant Bible with 66 books began in 1666. Hmm. I use the original 1611 KJV with Apocrypha (I also use the English "Orthodox Study Bible", but the OSB's New Testament is the NKJV which uses "demon", instead of "devil". I wish the OSB had used the original 1611 KJV): “Because that she had been married to seven husbands, whom Asmodeus the evil spirit had killed, before they had lain with her. Dost thou not know, said they, that thou hast strangled thine husbands? Thou hast had already seven husbands, neither wast thou named after any of them.” (Tobit 3: 8, KJV-1611) Oh, and something I find fascinating about the original KJV is it never uses the word "demon" :)

[@carltonpoindexter2034]

@@J0HN5AW Good for you. i use the KJV (I want to get one with the Apocrypha), the Orthodox Study Bible, The Rheiims-Douay Bible, the Revised Standard (Catholic-Orthodox edition), the Catholic Confraternity Bible (Out of print), the New American Bible, And the Knox Bible.in my move to a nursing home, i lost my library of books, including (from a college classmate) a New Testament in Greek, Latin, and Slavonic. The English was written in word order beneath each line so, for the non-foriegn languae speaker one got a sense of the syntax of the other language . I forgot, it was also in Arameic. It was a wonderful book and one realizes that English is one of the more difficult Languages to translate into, but we absorb easily entire foreign words: Hibachi, Sombrero, etc.

[@carltonpoindexter2034]

@@J0HN5AW PS, demons cannot kill and need a human agent. In this case, Sara. Demons are powerless and need our cooperation which is, basically to destroy, hence the term ABAYDON ,the Destroyer (See Rev.)

[@BanterWithBojan]

He heavily implied it. Angels are bodiless - they take upon different appearances to us humans, whether male, female, or a blazing many-eyed wheel. :-D

[@elenae9983]

Certainly, if GOD did not hold back from punishing the ANGELS that sinned but by throwing them into TARTARUS [ a spiritually dark place in the heavens ] { the ancient god of the body of the pit of the earth, his children were Cerberus Lernean Hydra and CHIMERA} delivered THEM TO PITS OF DENSE DARKNESS to be reserved for judgment, and HE did not hold back from punishing and ancient world, but kept Noah a preacher of righteousness safe with 7 others when HE brought a deluge upon a world of UNGODLY PEOPLE. " Who were these angels that sinned? These were angels who cohabited "with the daughters of men " This is what is written in the Bible, is it not? Then this must be the answer, this was between 2470 bce and 2370 bce during the 100 years they were on earth, THEY WERE VERY BUSY PRODUCING ........ HALLUCINOGENICS, and in Peru there are the remnants of their construction the building blocks were cut and aligned, so that when an earthquake would strike or Poseidon, depending on your faith, the building blocks would NOT move/ NOR FALL APART, this they could do because they already knew, that they were going to be destroyed by a GLOBAL DELUGE. Examples of these buildings are in Sacsayhuaman, Peru. These fallen angels or demons produced NEPHILIMS, these ANGELS were made up of those who light years ago made up JOB 38:7 these sinned against the HOLY SPIRIT for which there is no forgiveness, they were the mighty ones who were of old the men of fame. Genesis 6:4 read the continuation below if you care to that I wrote a month ago. Please read my other comments, in the following videos...... "Sucedio en el Peru ( TvPeru ) Lenguas Originarias del Peru" Crimenes Psychiatricos "La Castaneda " Adam y Eva 1983 mostly silent beautiful movie Adam y Eva Pelicula Mexicana OSTHOR What is Forsensic Psychiatry The Ketogenic diet plan for beginners Who are the Nephilim in Genesis 6 Jonah Bible Movie Snapshots of history Trinidad and Tobago 50th Anniversary

[@Ciprian-IonutPanait]

Even if they do not procreate they are male

[@carltonpoindexter2034]

Ken Scherer, below, see my comment below your name.

[@BanterWithBojan]

Doubt he's seen the comment

[@barrycampion9679]

Forget argument against which religion is correct,they all tell the same truth