Give your 6.5 Creedmoor, Magnum performance! "Need-Moor from the Creedmoor."

[@VitoBb1978]

Dave one thing that I’ve learned over the years is that, light weight bullets in a over- bore cartridge 243 Winchester, 6MM Remington 260 Remington, 6.5 Creedmoor just to name a few speeds up barrel wear if slower burning powders are used. Sure you get more velocity but there’s a trade off a lighter bullet will have more wind drift. History has shown medium to heavy weight bullets are more efficient in over bore cartridge’s. The 6.5 Creedmoor was developed with 140-147 Gr bullets, the 243 100 Gr, the 7MM Rem Mag 160 Gr bullet, 260 Remington 140 Gr.

[@davestrohmeyer-saddleupsho8009]

Agree and thanks for your comment. As a hunter, my needs are to extend Maximum point blank range. Lighter bullets at faster velocity, without degrading accuracy and because of speed increase provides close to the same Terminal ballistics as heavier bullets with much less recoil. Barrel burnout and higher BC bullets (wind drift)are more of a concern for high round count competitive and long range shooters. But of little concern for Hunters who typically take shots under 400 yards.

[@Chuck1284-]

Glad you're feeling better Dave and welcome back!

[@davestrohmeyer-saddleupsho8009]

Thank You, this video was a while ago...Lots of videos since then...Thanks for your kind words though.

[@joeyoung3319]

I have not yet started reloading, but this cartridge might be the one that gets me off the ground. Excellent information, I'll look forward to seeing more of your content!

[@davestrohmeyer-saddleupsho8009]

Best of luck to you and Thanks for watching.

[@keithalbrecht4785]

Dave, I did just that last year. I switched to 120gr. Barnes TTSX bullets! I took three whitetails with them, two does both of them head shoots at 100yds. to 130yds.. The other was a buck at 275yds. I'm using Varget powder at 40grs. 2890fps. It does the trick!!!

[@davestrohmeyer-saddleupsho8009]

Thanks Keith for your comment and for watching.

[@shanegibb997]

That last group with h4350 looked really impressive ... Great video Dave

[@davestrohmeyer-saddleupsho8009]

Agree...But Superformance needs more exploration, ie. getting more velocity with less pressure.

[@bobcatforever3485]

Good video. Nice groups. Seems that you got the data you were hoping for. Also, good to hear that you are felling better, hope you are back to 100% soon. Take care.

[@davestrohmeyer-saddleupsho8009]

Thanks Bobcat...I guess it was not yet my time to go. But pneumonia is a Butt kicker.

[@bobcatforever3485]

@@davestrohmeyer-saddleupsho8009 So sorry that your were dealing with all that. That can put a person away. Happy that you made it thru that.

[@rustynut1967]

Great video as always.👍

[@davestrohmeyer-saddleupsho8009]

Thanks for the kind words and for watching.

[@haroldhicks2696]

Great video Dave. Glad you’re doing better. Have you ever considered? Getting a Garmin.

[@davestrohmeyer-saddleupsho8009]

Yes I have. Maybe soon. $599 is a hindrance as that amount of money can buy allot of cartridge components instead.

[@tommccracken4104]

Liked your video!😊

[@davestrohmeyer-saddleupsho8009]

Thanks for watching.

[@leonardogarcia2506]

I really enjoyed this video and your opinions on the matter! We get caught up in the magical numbers of ballistic coefficient and sacrifice speed for the higher bc. I have friends asking me to load these bergers or eld-x bullets because with the higher bc, they should still have enough energy to knock an elk down at 1000 yards! 😂😂😂 the problem is I can load that round, buuut that bullet isn’t going to mean much out of a mossberg patriot with a 3-9x40 bushnell. Gold dots are a real performer on game and are priced at an affordable range. Hopefully this video helps someone look at ballistics from a new angle. I will be forwarding this video to about a dozen of my acquaintances who I think really could learn something from the work you put into this video.

[@davestrohmeyer-saddleupsho8009]

Thanks for the kind words and for watching. What people leave out of the BC dynamic is that BC changes with velocity. Also shooting at game over 500 yards has a higher probability of wounding an animal due to flight time of the bullet.

[@williamglover826]

Good video glad you are feeling better

[@davestrohmeyer-saddleupsho8009]

Thank You.

[@o5245607]

Thank you for the great video. It surprises me how many people plod along following the herd mentality of 140 grain 6.5 Creedmoor data and continue to tout published stats as the the holy grail. 120 grain at 2900 fps. with a good expanding bullet is an awesome combination for deer and other like sized animals. Check out the military's solution to their next battle rifle which they are saying will have an 88,000 psi operating pressure for a 140 grain bullet. In my humble opinion Dave's combination would have done everything the new weapon system does with less recoil, less cost, and with considerably less wear and tear on the rifles.

[@davestrohmeyer-saddleupsho8009]

Thanks for the kind words here and for watching.

[@hardball107]

Great video. I believe hunters get confused by the PRS crowd and feel they need 140gr+ bullets including members of my own family. I started shooting a Savage 12FV in 6.5 Creedmoor 4 years ago, I handload so I bought a couple of bags of the cheapest bullets I could find. I settled on PPU 120gr OTM bullets, with a starting charge of Win 748 I was right at 2750fps and was holding .5" - 5 shot groups. I switched to starting charges of 760 and jumped 75fps to 2830 or so. Lastly I tried some Win StaBall 6.5 and worked them up to just over 3000fps. I loaded Hornady 123gr SST bullets over my StaBall charges and went hunting with my Savage on a farms hedgerows. Those loads dropped deer like a laser beam out to just over 300 yards on a few instances. The range I shoot on will allow me a 500 yard shot and those cheap, 120gr PPU bullets continue to group unbelievably to the point my deficiency on the trigger becomes the problem. I have purchased some 129gr Interlock's and will be testing them at around 2850fps which I feel should be a great load for hunting as flat as they shoot., maybe I'll get some 90gr Sierra's and push them up to 3400 for some woodchucks.

[@davestrohmeyer-saddleupsho8009]

Sounds like you know your stuff. My experience with SST's at close range and high velocity has not been favorable. Yes they will kill but the animal will travel some before retrieval. 129 interlocks is a fine sweet spot for the 6.5 Creedmoor @2850 fps. Thanks for your comment.

[@hardball107]

@@davestrohmeyer-saddleupsho8009 I believe you're correct, that's why I'm moving up to the 129's or possibly Interlocks. If I'm hunting timber I take my Axis in 270 or Ruger Ranch in 450 Bushmaster for the heavy stuff close in.

[@outdoorsinontario3037]

Excellent stuff , thanks

[@davestrohmeyer-saddleupsho8009]

Thanks for watching

[@Kion1972]

Great video, and info

[@robertjackson1407]

Thank you 😊

[@davestrohmeyer-saddleupsho8009]

Thanks for watching.

[@joeltowle2737]

Back in the day when I was hand loading for my 6.5x55 Swede I used 129gr Hornady and sometimes the 140gr. I do miss the Sierra 160gr Semi pointed bullet, not very aerodynamic, but a long pill.

[@davestrohmeyer-saddleupsho8009]

Thanks for your comment and for watching

[@dragonflyfab9703]

BC increases with muzzle velocity. As such shooting the 153 Atip from PRC it never really catches up to 144 class bullets. At 1200 to 1400 yards they are about the same.

[@davestrohmeyer-saddleupsho8009]

Thanks for your input. Agree BC is important to long range shooters. But terminal energy is what primary to most hunters as most game is hunted out to 500 yards and in. Thanks for your comment here and for watching.

[@shooterxchannel8102]

Liked. Very educational. 👍👍👌

[@davestrohmeyer-saddleupsho8009]

Thanks for liking. Thanks for watching.

[@usafret4709]

Dave, I noticed you shoot groups with the Magnetospeed attached. Do you see any difference in where you groups fall without it attached to the barrel vs. with it attached? The reason I ask is that I had a 308 that grouped higher with the chronograph attached and was told it changes the barrel harmonics.

[@davestrohmeyer-saddleupsho8009]

Hope this answers your question. Barrel harmonics are a bit like Angels, I know they exist but only through faith. kzbin.info/www/bejne/nZapd2N_ZZWIfNk

[@usafret4709]

@@davestrohmeyer-saddleupsho8009 Watching it now. Thanks Dave.

[@connerm4850]

Why does Speer not have load data for the 120gr GD in 6.5CM? Only the grendel..

[@davestrohmeyer-saddleupsho8009]

They said the 120 grain Gold dot is not suitable for the Creedmoor. So we are on our own and at our own risk.

[@connerm4850]

@@davestrohmeyer-saddleupsho8009 that’s what I figured. I wish they made a 130gr GD.

[@sandybarnett7502]

Dave, how often do you clean barrel? After each range session?

[@davestrohmeyer-saddleupsho8009]

Yes. I do a thorough cleaning twice per year. But the barrel and chamber with a Bore snake and chamber brush after every shooting or hunting session.

[@jasonrad9332]

When you find a good node, do you ever mess with seating depth to work on group size? I’m brand new to reloading but have seen this on Erick Cortina’s channel.

[@davestrohmeyer-saddleupsho8009]

Jason, Thanks for your question. Yes, I do vary seating depth, to lower SD's and ES's for consistency, but I mainly only use "Hunting bullets" designed for game animal Terminal Ballistics and not Match grade target bullets. It is amazing how close the cartridge overall length mentioned in the bullet maker's reloading books work very well indeed.

[@jasonrad9332]

@@davestrohmeyer-saddleupsho8009 you have much more experience than I do. Just trying to gauge around to see what others do. Appreciate the content!

[@jasonrad9332]

I just fire formed my first 100 last week. Hoping to start loading my ladder test batch tomorrow. I need to get a chronograph stat.

[@davestrohmeyer-saddleupsho8009]

@@jasonrad9332 Best of luck to you on your shooting.

[@justflylow]

Nice video. What is the rifle and barrel length you are using?

[@davestrohmeyer-saddleupsho8009]

kzbin.info/www/bejne/b3uohGOhnriEeLs

[@justflylow]

@@davestrohmeyer-saddleupsho8009 thank you! It looks like a really nice setup! Happy shooting!

[@stevenboggs5076]

Dave, as a sanity check, since you are getting wonderful numbers, perhaps run the values in Gordon's reloading tool (free) or Quickload (popular but fee). I thought I was smart too but ran hot unpublished loads. To my surprise there was a red flag! Now, it's just a modeler but at least it gives some advisement as to if you are getting too hot. BTW nice jacket am completely envious.

[@davestrohmeyer-saddleupsho8009]

Thanks for the suggestion Steven. Both loads powder and bullet weight are listed in my Hornady manual and Speer's (online manual) For Superformance powder, I am 2 grains under max load and stopped when my velocity exceeded what was listed. No worries here as stated, I only need velocity and accuracy at 2,900 fps and not 3,000 fps. with the 120 grain Gold Dot , to equal the performance of the 140 grain bullet @ 2,700fps.

[@EagleEyeShooting]

I can give some input using that software vs factual proven data. Personally I would only use those two softwares as references as it is still a model of performance. I personally compared its calculations with a Oehler 43 strain gauge (which gives actual chamber pressures) and found results to be substantially lower than what those softwares give. I've personally managed to push a 153gr Berger at 3050 FPS in a 6.5 Creedmoor using Reloader 26 and stay below 60k psi peak pressures. Goes to show, let your rifle tell you whats good or bad using the brass and primers as evidence. Personally, I recommend using Federal primers for pressure testing as the softer cups aid in telling you when your near max pressures. This correlated with my strain gauge testing. I found best results is usually 1 grain below max pressure is where the nodes to majority of stick powders are.

[@davestrohmeyer-saddleupsho8009]

@@EagleEyeShooting Thanks Kenny for your experience. 3050fps 153gn far exceeds any published data I've seen, (I don't have a Berger book) and rivals max loads for the 6.5 PRC and 270 Win. Wow!

[@EagleEyeShooting]

@@davestrohmeyer-saddleupsho8009 Reloader 26 is a magical powder for the 6.5 Creedmoor heavy projectiles and felt recoil IMO is lower than shooting a 147gr. If you can find some, I would recommend trying them out. The 156gr Berger EOL would be a perfect combo for what your trying to do

[@larrymitchell3502]

@@EagleEyeShooting Thx for sharing your real world experience vs the softwares. What's your barrel length?

[@joshclemons9975]

Hornady superformence 129 SST is 2950 fps

[@davestrohmeyer-saddleupsho8009]

I do not doubt that. Q: Is that the actual speed of that ammo in your rifle? The reason I ask is because I chronographed Factory Hornady Superformance 30-06. 150 grain in my 24" rifle and it was 100 ft per second slower than what was the listed velocity on the box.

[@jfk19780]

i noticed you struggling to close the bolt . i found with the creedmoor cartridge for me anyways i have to run my fired brass through a shoulder die then the lee collet die and that gets rid of that problem . adjusting full length sizer wouldn't fix it. !!

[@davestrohmeyer-saddleupsho8009]

Good catch John! Yes, 2 problems discovered. 1. Loose primer pocket therefore case web expansion. Remedy, pitched these cases. 2. Inadequate shoulder set back. Remedy, case gauge and turning my die down .005. Thanks for your input and for watching.

[@luvtahandload7692]

@@davestrohmeyer-saddleupsho8009 you ground .005" off your FL die? That sounds a bit excessive. And expensive, unless you did it yourself. I would have dedicated a shellholder and polished off 1-2 thou to start. Man, that wind was pesky that day, wasn't it?

[@davestrohmeyer-saddleupsho8009]

@@luvtahandload7692 No, 5 thousands shoulder set back was measured from a fired round. Simply screwed my die down 1/2 to 3.4 turn to set the shoulder back so it would cycle properly. The Wilson case gauge is the tool I use to measure proper set back and case length. It's always windy in the river canyon where I shoot.

[@hardball107]

@@luvtahandload7692 The chamber on my Savage 12FV is very tight and with my Rock Chucker in compression when resizing I'm lucky to get .0015" shoulder bump. I did what you did and took some 500 grit sandpaper and polished .002" off the top of the shell holder and marked it. Worked great and I don't have to stress the press anymore.

[@luvtahandload7692]

@@hardball107 Nice. I have a gun with a tight chamber. It's nice in that factory ammo usually shoots very well.

[@henrymaccus]

With my Creedmoor shooting 143 Grain I am getting 1500 ft/lbs at 500 yards (So I can kill an Elk at that distance and you can only barely kill a deer). That a full 350 more than You! Not to mention the biggest factor that you did not show and by far the hardest to control is wind drift! Move his target even out to only 200 yards and watch his groups open up! Nah, I will take the heavier, higher B.C. bullets over his lightweights every time! BTW the B.C. on my 143's is .625 on the G2 scale compared to his .457. The answer to getting more out of what is NOT a Needmore is a longer Barrel! I like 26". I can push those 143's to 2950 but I get better Case, barrel life and accuracy at 2850 and that's plenty.

[@davestrohmeyer-saddleupsho8009]

Thanks for your comment and for watching. See my Creedmoor playlist that may agree with most of your very valid points. P.S. I have taken large 200lb+ deer with the 120 grain bonded bullet at distance. BC only matters beyond 400 yds and is a major factor for PRS or target shooters and not necessarily hunters that stay within the 6.5 Creedmoor cartridge limits, CXP-2 for terminal performance.

[@garyk76]

And honestly a 260 handloads shoot even faster that a needmore and they do make rifles with a 1 in 8 twist also

[@davestrohmeyer-saddleupsho8009]

260 is a great caliber/cartridge

[@GideonMatthysBruwer]

what primers did you use Sir ?

[@davestrohmeyer-saddleupsho8009]

Winchester Large Rifle Primers.

[@GideonMatthysBruwer]

@@davestrohmeyer-saddleupsho8009 thank you very much

[@VanLifeOffGrid]

try the 123 Grain Hornady eldm and Hybrid 100 v. it’s a niCe Combo

[@davestrohmeyer-saddleupsho8009]

Thanks for your suggestion here and foe watching.

[@VanLifeOffGrid]

@@davestrohmeyer-saddleupsho8009I achieved over 3000 feet per second with 44-44.5 Grain in a 22 inch winCHester xpr with that combination. that bullet has a .506 bc. there is a video on my channel showing it. You should check it out. Keep it up. thanks for replying. have a nice day.

[@Resist.Tyranny]

But neither of those bullets has great BC. Use Hornady Match 6.5 Creedmoor Ammo 147 Grain Hornady ELD Match Polymer Tip. Then you can get the same energy at 700 yards that your 120gr is getting at 500yds. Not to mention that you are still supersonic at 1600 yards with more energy than a 9mm handgun at 10 ft.

[@davestrohmeyer-saddleupsho8009]

Agree with you about BC for target shooters and competition shooters. For terminal performance on medium game animals at an ethical hunting distance, BC has a lesser value than higher velocity and therefore producing a flatter trajectory. Thanks for your comment here.

[@Resist.Tyranny]

@@davestrohmeyer-saddleupsho8009 Several videos have come in my feed lately with compilations of long range kills, with many from 600-1000yd range. Where I live, could never get a chance for a shot like that.

[@davestrohmeyer-saddleupsho8009]

@@Resist.Tyranny Hunters should confine their shot to their personal level of accuracy and confidence of a one shot assured kill, using the proper caliber and bullet construction matched to the size of the game. My ability is limited to a max of less than 400 yards in typical hunting situations. So BC's are less important to my needs

[@johnharris-pn5vy]

I shoot a 144g Berger at 2836 or so , at 500 yrds it's still has 1510 ft/lbs of energy , 2174 ft/sec and less wind drift , I'll keep the heavier bullet 😁and I'm 100 ft/sec faster

[@davestrohmeyer-saddleupsho8009]

That is great performance indeed. Thanks for your comment.

[@garyk76]

You can't get the kinetic energy out of a creedmoor to turn into magnum performance because to do that you need to pick a heavier bullets honestly a 6.5 prc is a short magnum and they isn't no way you can get the kinetic energy it produces with a 6.5 prc and that's slow for that bullet weight and a 270 pushes a 130 at 3200 fps

[@davestrohmeyer-saddleupsho8009]

Thanks for your comment and for watching. For deer size game, I place more of an emphasis flat shooting/ shot placement and the proper bullet construction for hunting. This video was to show speed and bullet drop was less with a 120 vs 140gn bullets based upon my rifle performance only.

[@chrispolovich3071]

Just buy a 6.5 prc for hunting !! I can read too,,,,

[@davestrohmeyer-saddleupsho8009]

HaHa! Maybe when components are more readily available. Thanks for watching.

[@chrispolovich3071]

@@davestrohmeyer-saddleupsho8009 thanks for not taking my comment the wrong way,,,

[@davestrohmeyer-saddleupsho8009]

@@chrispolovich3071 HaHa! I like the PRC numbers, but I have it bracketed with the 25-06 @3,100fps and the 270 win @3,100fps, plus I already have components for these calibers.

[@henrymaccus]

Good luck finding your 6.5 prc Ammo when you run out! The Creedmoor ammo is EVERYWERE!

[@KevinMc7-s8o]

I'm getting 3004 , 3006 , 2997 fps with a 140 Gr Hornady ELD Match, Alpha Munitions brass, 44.5 Gr Power Pro 2000 MR powder, Fed 210 BR primer , seated to 2.750" no flat primers , nor signs of pressure one ragged hole.... 26" Xcaliber barrel on my Tikka T3x action , GRS Stock , Arken EP5 Scope 5 x 25 I don't need no lil 120 Gr bullet ....it's the powder .....

[@davestrohmeyer-saddleupsho8009]

Thanks for your info here. However I find "No Published Data" from Hornady or Alliant Powders that have reference to Power Pro 2000 MR powder as a load source. Speer does show their 140 grain bullets with 2000 MR powder and a max load of 37.9 grains and a speed of 2,629fps.

[@KevinMc7-s8o]

Yeah i have that data as well .. This powder is notorious for crazy speed and no pressure signs My case can still take more But i stopped at 4.5 gr. Im working on the load currently with 4.0 grains . . And loading a bundle in bulk. Shes a keeper . ​@davestrohmeyer-saddleupsho8009