[GL][T-273] EMD vs GE: SD70ACe vs ES44AC (Part 1) | Trains 21

[@timothymckay5594]

As a former engineer (25 yrs.) for NS and a EMD fan I'd say that GE makes a better product. My reasons are #1. The GEVO's are much quieter than the EMD's. You don't have to raise your voice when talking across the cab to your conductor. #2 Many times while going down the line of road at track speed the Engineers door would open without warning! I'm trying to focus on every crossing and signal that I DON'T NEED ANY SURPRISES! #3 When waiting in a siding for Amtrak or a "intermodal" the automatic engine shutoff would proceed to do it's job BUT, restarting would cost you time because the computer that operated this device would take so much time to "boot up" to initiate a start up. I miss the high whine of the turbochargers of the 2 cycle EMD's as you get them up to speed but, it all for naught when getting the freight safely from point A to point B on your tour of duty. Sorry EMD.....fix these problems, get a few extra hundred horsepower to compete with the GE's and the railroads will come back to your product.

[@unity3596]

I agree i heard that crew also disliked the EMDs because of there control's

[@NSandBNSFrailfanProductions]

I don’t agree with that GE always smokes and makes burnt marks take a look at this video

[@NSandBNSFrailfanProductions]

kzbin.info/www/bejne/jpqkdaKleM2Zr5o

[@NSandBNSFrailfanProductions]

kzbin.info/www/bejne/mYm8Y32QmrBoftk

[@NSandBNSFrailfanProductions]

kzbin.info/www/bejne/qna3f3h8lNWen5o lots of examples why GE SUCKS

[@JKS62B50]

Here in Slovenia we still have functional EMD G16 model from the 1960 working like a charm. Nothing beats EMD's instant power delivery and reliability. Just check how many engines are fitted in the tugs. When you have a huge vessel adrift you need an EMD...

[@losi5ivet29cc]

I'm an EMD guy my personal favorite is the SD40-2 and the SD75I. I also have a soft spot for GEs as those ES44s have a distinctive growl to them that I can't get enough of. Both have their pros and cons but I have to go with the EMDs because they were built locally in London Ontario plus a friend of mine used to work there I have another friend who frequently goes to Erie and he's a GE nut so it's the best of both worlds for me.

[@AlleghenyMTNRails]

I'm a EMD fella too. SD80MAC's, SD60M's, SD40's, GP30's, SW1500/MP15’s, GP7/9's, F units are all in my fav. list, but GE Dash 8's are cool though...

[@matthewarentzen7465]

Nothing today compares to the SD40-2.

[@dhritisamanta4382]

True

[@tonyv8925]

local lines here in Michigan use alot of updated SD40's, I even see some of the older SD38's hauling short loads to local yards.(usually 30 cars or less).

[@unity3596]

SD40-2s have vibration issues so they were a bit loud in the cab but besides that

[@TrainTrackTrav]

Of the two, it has to be the ACe for me. They just look and sound amazing. That being said, watching four GEVOs lift a train from a dead stop on a 2% grade is quite impressive.

[@Rob-tr1st]

AC my man!!!! Once again you have outdone yourself. Such a awesome and through video full of knowledge. As for myself, I love the EMD more than the GEVOs. Hopefully when you come to Knoxville we will see plenty of ACe and ACUs on the C&NO

[@KentuckyAk101guy]

I’m an EMD fan with the Sd70ace being my top pick. I don’t claim to be a know it all or a fake engineer. I have played Train sim world 2 for the past year and most of my time has been on Sd40-2’s and Ac44’s. The Sd70ace just released with the Sherman hill route. I was definitely impressed with it, I play mostly on sand patch (Mostly Because of the coal trains as a majority of my family worked in the coal industry) My first pull with the Sd70ace after I learned the ropes was a 50 car coal train (with an sd40-2) and it did better then the many ac44 runs I have done. But it’s just a game in the end so I don’t know how accurate it is to irl.

[@gordtvradio3465]

Playing that game really helps you understand why fast loading is so preferable. I love the gp-38s for that reason

[@williamhensley8873]

Seriously a game im not being a dick but actually an engineer for Csx on the CV sub all we did was load trains around 14,000 tons on the side of a mountain there is no comparison in real life we didn't load many trains with that EMD crap.cause Csx was and i can't believe im saying this smart enough not to buy them

[@minecraftertracey01]

I talked to a Bn (bnsf Bn part) crew member once he said both are good in ways when u need a unit that well give it her all going up on a steep grade at 2 mph u go with a sd70ace well if u need more fuel efficient train u need a Gevo for its trip optimizer.

[@stretchlimo7275]

I’m a fan of both GE and EMD, but GE’s still catch on fire, haven’t got a clue why they haven’t resolved that problem yet, I’ve seen a tier 4 ET44AC burned up on the sides already. Great video, always learn something from them👍🏼😎

[@jakescharfstein6352]

Some aces do too

[@stretchlimo7275]

@@jakescharfstein6352 that’s gotta be pretty rare though, pretty common in GE’s though

[@jakescharfstein6352]

@@stretchlimo7275 I wouldn’t say rare, burn marks are common for both locos

[@stretchlimo7275]

@@jakescharfstein6352 idk I've honestly never seen an EMD burned up, the EMDs I commonly see are SD40s, 60s, and 70s, never have seen any burned, now I've seen many GE Dash 9 44 CW's, AC44CW's, ES44AC's, and even a couple ET44AC's, I'd say that's common in GE's, very uncommon in EMD's

[@Bull3tBikes]

It’s because GE has all that powaaah

[@CyberSoldat]

GE has the heavy hauler market down. EMD imho is still better for long term operation and rebuildability but still both work well together.

[@dannyholt105]

Very interesting AC! I love the comparison to Ford v Chevy! I own a Chevy but I have driven plenty of Fords that I enjoy as well. I suppose that's why I am an EMD fan because they were once owned by GM. Great info my pal! Cheers, Danny

[@TheAustinSubRailfan]

I Prefer GE Mainly because they built the Genesis Locomotives the GEVO’s And the AC6000CW’s All Locomotives I love!! There’s so many other locomotives I love too! And I’m not trying to be EMD Biased Because I love the new T-4 SD70ACe’s The F59PHI’s and the F40’s! I just happen to like GE More than EMD that’s all…

[@gordtvradio3465]

As an EMD fan, I want them to be the best, but I think the rail industry chooses the gevo for a reason

[@unity3596]

Because Most EMDs have been said to have a biiiit of issues

[@Mcnibbus]

@@unity3596 inserts piston here 😂

[@tonyv8925]

Good presentation. Interesting comparison of the different models and sub-models. All said, I just like the EMD product line, especially the SD40 series. Thanks for sharing.

[@loganflores486]

I’ll take a GE unit over an EMD any day, those sd70 aces at notch 8 feel like you’re riding a lawn mower. At least with ge locomotives, my paperwork doesn’t literally vibrate off of my desk while I’m taking a piss.

[@williamwhite773]

To clarify the difference between EMD's Super Series and Micro Century wheel slip systems: EMD's system is designed to cause wheel creep to improve tractive effort while pulling hard. GE's Micro Century permits a controlled wheel creep when it occurs. Both systems are aimed at improving tractive effort. GE's system is much less complicated and less prone to failure.

[@EntertainmentWorldz]

great train video bro

[@notBrie]

The early 2000s vibes from these photos and the mic is very strong. Keep up the good work.

[@calvingrondahl1011]

A lot to take in but fun to listen too. I agree, whatever the crews say.

[@pqhkr2002]

Sounds like mechanics in locomotive shop prefer to service EMD, while engineers prefer to drive GE.

[@iusetano]

I would also like to know. I love this AC. Excellent as always.

[@nationalcapitalrails2088]

As a railfans...I like locomotives! Since I don't have to worry about all the intricacies involved in running trains, I don't get too concerned about the pros and cons of either builder. With the way things are, we could be soon seeing the beginning of the end of diesel-electric power.

[@marinekid2006]

SD70ACe is the Cadillac of engines on NS. The new 4000s are literal rattle trap junk. All of the NS 1000 series have isolated cabs and are extremely quiet and well insulated. I love having them in the lead. As for the TO/EM debate, both are used on NS and I prefer EM from a conductor standpoint. Provides way more useful information over line of road, especially on trains that like to run hot.

[@cody8217]

Our TO is causing us to break drawbars constantly.

[@unity3596]

meh i prefer GE over EMD because i just havent heard anything bad about the Gevos but i did hear a bunch of stuff from the SD70s

[@Philios2Glory1]

I thought i remember that the EMD were two stroke Diesel 90 Degree fireing order, and the big 7FDLv16 were 4 cycle Offset firing order.

[@randyjacobs9489]

I'm as confused as a cat covering poop! You blew thru this like a hurricane!

[@yardlimit8695]

AMEN.........i say the same thing,,,,,,,,,,,he talks so fast you can't keep up with what he is saying,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,he might know it but he can't convey what he knows in an understanding way.............slow down........... i think he's a railroad encyclopedia bur not a very good teacher.............his videos are good though......sometimes i think if distant signal was giving all this info, it would be a lot easier to digest............and come away learning something..........

[@FreihEitner]

Your SD70 versus Dash-9 comparison re: Australia reminds me of the saying that a Land Rover will get you into the Outback, but if you want to come back from the Outback make it a Toyota Land Cruiser.

[@keianakbar9892]

I love emd SD70ACE it's my favourite diesel

[@kevloo6078]

Outstanding work as always..... . Thank you.

[@stephenbroughman3231]

All you need to know is that GE’s controlled 70% of the marketplace. That says it all! And if you read some of the comments from engineers below, they will tell you why. This is not the 1960’s anymore. Hopefully Wabtec and Caterpillar both will continue to build good products.

[@kittty2005]

Maybe Caterpillar should stick with bulldozers and excavators and leave the locomotives to the experts.

[@BroadwayLTDProductions]

GE “controls” 70% of the marketplace because GE’s are cheaper to buy and get fixed for free when they blow up. Railroads are ran by corporate bean counters. Also all these “railroaders” complaining about the EMD’s being a little noisier are just a bunch of sissies. I would love to see them operate a steam locomotive on jointed track with no cab signals and trash visibility. They would LOVE that! 😂😂😂😂

[@IowaGrandpaTrain]

This is a case where you follow the money. GE has outsold EMD over the past 20 years by a factor of 2 or 3. Why? Because, when you look at the big picture, GE/Wabtec makes a better locomotive that is more reliable and less expensive to operate. Yes, EMDs have their place. In particular, they are better for switching because they load faster. But overall, there are more GEs on the rails today because the railroads like them. Also, EMD was late to the game with Tier 3 and 4 compliant engines. And EMD has their share of “turkeys” - think SD50’s, SD90’s, and SD90-43s.

[@unity3596]

Also heard when GE made the dash 8 series EMD "rushed" because they probably knew GE was going to outsell them so they started rushing to make locomotives which are just bad enough for the railroads which is the SD60s with there loud cabs and the SD70 also with there loud cabs except for the iso units

[@BroadwayLTDProductions]

No there are more GE’s because they are CHEAPER! Railroads are ran by corporate bean counters who have never operated a single locomotive before.

[@detroitdieselseries5071]

I remember that time CN ordered 30 SD70ACes back in 2012-13, but they cancelled the order and went for more GE Junk sadly

[@unity3596]

Pretty sure CN would had retired them anyways considering those are really older SD70ACes so there going to be loud with buttons falling off so i dont think crew are going to like it And they have SD70M-2s now

[@Cnw8701]

I love EMD and GE equally, but there's certain locomotives that I like and don't like from one another. I personally find GEVOs boring because they all use the same horn and are too quiet. When they run at Notch 8 with their motors whining, they sound awesome, but at any Notch lower than 6, you literally can't hear them coming. I prefer the SD70ACe for multiple reasons: 1.) Their horns 2.) Their mean, rugged design 3.) The sound of their two-stroke engines 4.) Their air compressors are quieter and don't scare me to death when idling

[@pqhkr2002]

I love EMD tiny a little bit more, with the 1,2,3 reasons that you listed out. I think GE is good at electric, since they are General Electric; while EMD is good at mechanic and styling thing. If locomotives can like cars or trucks that someone can modify them, there must be an SD70ACe with GE's electrical system, which I think is a perfect locomotive. I am not railroader in real life, but played Run8 a little bit, to be honest, I prefer to drive GE or old EMD like 40 series, SD70ACe's computer doesn't look good, especially when I learned from some other video that the OS behind the screen is WinXP lol.

[@Cnw8701]

@@pqhkr2002 Yep. Many SD70ACes use Windows 7 and Vista for the OS, which is ridiculous.

[@pqhkr2002]

@@Cnw8701 Wondering if some one has hacked into the computer, playing Train Simulator in an SD70's cab. lol I've heard a story that a guy in army learned that their tank's fire control computer runs Windows (I remembered it was some old tank in other country modified with modern computerized fire control system), he hacked in it and played shooting game in a tank. And another story is from Giant software, who developed Farming Simulator, they said one of their player played FS in the cab of his tractor, which was plowing field in automatic mode. But this guy didn't hack his tractor's computer, he was using his laptop.

[@RailfanNetwork]

AC back with a vengeance!!

[@414RadioTech]

I have to agree with everybody that EMD is the only way to to really go as far as quality and so on because not only are they more reliable they're very efficient with their fuel consumption and less wear and tear with interchangeable parts and some locomotives and you don't get toasters either because those are rare to blow up their turbos compared to GE‼️‼️‼️‼️‼️

[@JackCarsonsRailroadVideos]

I wonder how a SD70ACe-T4 VS ET44AC would Fair SINCE they're entirely different (somewhat)

[@stretchlimo7275]

That would be a good video, the tier 4 SD70s I've never seen before, all I know is that they're a v12 4 stroke with 1010 cubic inches per cylinder

[@afleetcommand]

Interesting to see in years to come if anything from GE can stay in service as long as those sd40-2's. Wonder what the percentage of manufactured emd 645's, sd60's with 710's, even the earlier 567's are still in service vs. the period GE's

[@Trains21]

I don't know but the numbers will no doubt favor EMD.

[@djtrainman2]

I personally think that EMD is way better than GE for example the line out by me all they run are EMD gp38-2 and sd45

[@Enjoyer.762]

Just remember the GEVOs are 100 hp greater than the SD70s series. Therefore 100 more YT competitive railfanning points lol.

[@Trains21]

Nope.. Some 70s are 4,500 hp.

[@THE_IRON_HORSE]

The tier 3 ones are 4,500 🤣🤣

[@Enjoyer.762]

@@Trains21 I remember reading somewhere that the actual hp used for traction was still 4,300 lol.

[@paullindberg9230]

As a former Conrail crew member I think the EMD/ GE power could work a decent. Day's work. thank you AC

[@Trains21]

Very welcome

[@stephenbroughman3231]

You need to speak with engineers and mechanics as to which is better!

[@fighting17chicago]

Yay!

[@stevenbiffoni783]

About ten years ago I watched a video and one of the speakers on the show said a locomotive engine made a good case for a locomotive with a GE prime mover and EMD trucks, the interviewee did not go into details, but what do you think? Excellent video.

[@shaunwilliams4231]

I'm a GM Emd man

[@richharris9489]

Me to emd are bad ass. Ge #2 for me .and i work for general electric lol

[@ReadingAreaRailfan]

As a diesel technology student, another downfall to the GE is obviously their turbos, and because their always idling, which your not supposed to do, kills the turbos. I'm going to assume that EMD made their turbos in a way that they are ment to idle for long periods of time.

[@Mcnibbus]

Well GE’s dont idle all the time i have heard a couple of them go into a computer or crew engaged sleep mode that auto restarts after a button is pressed or the allotted time for sleep is up. EMD does the same its just that they go through a longer process of repriming/charging air (for the sd70ACe’s) and finally kicking on the air starter / turning over the engine. And when it comes to turbos GE units especially u boats, dash 7’s, dash8’s, and dash 9’s have a bit of a bad rap with toasting them selves but you rarely ever see a ac44 , an ac6k ( ac6000), a p42/p40/p32* (* the dash 8 model or the the acdm) or a gevo ( es series or et series) get burned. EMD might have the high rev thrill but i would have to go with GE’s 4 stroke chug and echo of said chug as the engine rolls away from you. It’s just something about it that you can literally feel in your chest and more often then not something you can feel in the ground especially if you are standing near the unit or units.

[@ReadingAreaRailfan]

@@Mcnibbus they do idle for long periods of time. But still, EMD turbos have always been built better. Railroads liked the EMD turbos because they barley required any maintenance and you only had to do minimal maintenance. Ever since the 50s, GE has had problems with their turbos, they would always fail. They've improved over Time, but their still not perfect. Them again, when you don't change the design of the engine from 50 years ago, and only change the turbo, it won't be perfect. But still better than a Plymouth

[@TNandTXRailfan]

SD70ACE in horns cause of the unbeatable K5LLA, but GEVO’s for the chugging. EMD 710’s and GEVO 12’s run a close race in which prime mover sounds better, but the GEVO’s sound a little better. EMD 710’s are the best sounding EMD prime mover, IMO. Overall I choose the ACE cause of the K5LLA’s, can’t beat those horns.

[@jakescharfstein6352]

GE engines handle horns better than emd, the amount of times NS has put a p5 or K5LA on an ace is astronomical cause they don’t last a month. Gevos don’t blow out horns. But a good k5lla is nice

[@TNandTXRailfan]

@@jakescharfstein6352 That is true, I respect that.

[@timothyxv171mmmpertinentgamer]

Thanks for info update I pinned for train 21 you bring the big bag to us I know locomotive is better on rail we have to believe on our answers yes to was 11 GE , SD78s you know it you will be working to get moving on GO 12 ac motors you gotta operate on them my friend AC to DC engineer said is a strong locomotive running on electric turbine we just picking up speed on those locomotive's.

[@ironhorsethrottlemaster5202]

I am an EMD fan 2 I understand them a lot better and I know the cubic inch size of a lot of their engines like a 567-645 710 the new 1010 and by the electric motive division it's now electric motive diesel and is owned by caterpillar back in the day when General Motors went bankrupt in 2008 only company within that company that was making money was EMD and they were independent for a Time then caterpillar bought them around 2014-15 something like that if EMTs were junk a huge company white caterpillar would never buy them but they did because they know they're good pieces of equipment my grandfather works for Caterpillar for a lot of years and I've run a skid steer and a mini excavator caterpillars are great and so are EMD. The question I'm asking before I went off the rails is do you know the cubic inches of the cylinders bore and stroke for General Electric locomotives I do not know the displacement of the cylinders of General Electric's do you know I would graciously appreciate the knowledge thank you AC you are the man I've missed hearing your voice I loved this video God bless you man peace out into the world have a great day

[@gordtvradio3465]

Why didn’t you talk about the stats like in the other videos?

[@JackCarsonsRailroadVideos]

12:30 incorrect 9330 - 9369 are nose light nose ACe's are non isolated and All cab Light ACe's 9370 - 9399 are not isolated

[@williamhensley8873]

I don't know who gave you your information but everything you were describing is just the opposite the new AC EMD's are not the old SD,s which are still good power they are a joke they might be good in trail on level ground

[@em2attic]

Good thing you wernt talking about UP sd70m's they are cool....but are trash on mountain grades. Let that wheel slip or speed drop below 5mph and you might as well chalk up your hill climb as a fat L being itll shut down to not burn up the traction motors and you have to wait an hour to kick it back online and try again.

[@Mcnibbus]

Ive heard that they can be a bit picky but not that bad but what you outlined there would be pure torture

[@LakeVillaRailProductions]

ACe for ever #teamEMD

[@railfanmcneal2527]

I click on this real quick🤣🤣🤣

[@NSandBNSFrailfanProductions]

EMD in my opinion is better GE always smokes way to much and makes burnt marked on the engines

[@Winternight11]

Es44ac 😊

[@iiLuxis]

Sheesh 😳

[@jerseyrailbuff4147]

Lets be honest, Alco is better then both of these manufacturers

[@THE_IRON_HORSE]

Let's be honest stop the cap 😭🤣🤣🤣

[@unity3596]

BRING ALCOS BACK

[@sunnysiderails397]

Great Video!

[@Trains21]

Glad you enjoyed it

[@paulweston2267]

They both do certain things better than the other. M's and ACe's do a better job at starting heavy trains than the GEs. GEs get better fuel mileage on long distance intermodals. There is a place for both.

[@dougcrawford2302]

You shouldn't do a comparison when you are bias to one side. Ridiculous. That's why its a comparison. What you should have done is explain why you like EMD over GE because of what you've been told, because you say that many times. I prefer GE myself.

[@wholelawyer]

I do too this guy JUST HAS TO BE BIAS TO EMD General Electric is far more superior to EMD in the 1970s when GE brought out the dash 7 line EMD panicked and rushed the design of the sd50 ruining the reputation because of its poor reliability

[@joelmorvan8298]

Why not electrified the Transcontinental Lines through Rocky Mountain, Pittsburgh line, and other ? Ge was excellent for built electric engines (Little Joe for exemple) use in Milwaukee Road system…..Today Alstom built for Indian Railways double CC locomotive with 12000 HP for Fast Freight intermodal train. TranSiberian use also electric engines. In the seventiies, we has big power engine 8000 HP (CC56500). But you, american, was pioneers of the wonderfull electric railways (Pensy, NYC, Hew Haven, Virginian....) in the years 1900...Why not change the power free smokes. friendly from France.

[@Trains21]

Aside from the New York City area, the New York Central wasn't an electric railroad, however, electrification is considered inefficient outside of certain (mostly passenger and commuter) districts.

[@andrewreynolds4949]

Generally American railways have long stretches of remote and rural line that would need wires, masts, and power supplies. The initial cost to electrify would be massive, and there would be huge issues maintaining such long isolated stretches of OHLE. When a diesel locomotives breaks down it can be brought back to a shop to be repaired, but OHLE must by nature be repaired in situ, which could be extremely difficult. In addition most of the current equipment and maintenance infrastructure would have to be replaced. Both from a cost and maintenance perspective widespread electrification of American railroads would cost far more than the benefits it would bring.

[@trainlover123trainsrock]

@@Trains21 even through all the back and forth about which is better, the truth is you’ll always see EMD and GE locomotives together in lashups anyway.

[@jakescharfstein6352]

Ge for sure, they don’t ruin horns, they have nice chugging, and I like the look of them. Aces are ok, but not superior IMO

[@unity3596]

Aces have small bits of issues

[@Mcnibbus]

That chug is legendary

[@wholelawyer]

SD40s and SD40-2s are both overated i love SD40-3s, sd45s, sd45-2s, sd60s and sd70s and all the gp equivalent models from EMD sd50s gp50s are GARBAGE all GENERAL ELECTRIC locomotives are the best in my opinion the dash 8s are better then SD40-2s

[@jeffreycole9834]

I am not fond of GE anything. In the mid to late 2000's, GE took many millions of tax dollars, then shut down a plant or two and took the operations off shore. Immelt lied and said he was investing into American facilities. I also prefer how GM EMD locomotives are built.

[@kelvintorrence5994]

Amen I said the same thing,a billion or trillion dollar corporations and they can't pay their bills and the government bails them out like all those railroads in the 70s,and named it conrail b.s. where's My tax dollar refund at,